Actually CRPGs are never about roleplaying. At best you get some choices, do you want to be good or evil. But its not like you could actually pick a role and play it. The computer wont care about your actions and your communication. Other players would, sure, but the computer and therefore the game itself wont.
I agree that games don't need character levels, but they do need a way for character advancement. I think it would be good if game devs used an RF Online like advancement method minus the character levels. For those that haven't played RF Online part of their character advancement involved doing stuff to gain experience in a particular attribute. Like you would fight with a close ranged weapon to advance your close ranged skill or cast a spell to advance it as well as your over all magical aptitude.
As for those saying they would like to have a fully maxed out character where all they have to worry about is gear, I personally think that is a stupid idea. With out the character advancement aspect I personally would feel there's nothing to really look forward to since I already have pretty much everything. I mean sure there is the gear, but then once you get that, then what? Also everyone's always complaining about end game content, but what can you really put in that can really keep people entertained once they hit max level?
With out the character advancement aspect I personally would feel there's nothing to really look forward to since I already have pretty much everything.
omg...
Many people like you here seem to consider character advancement (read: journey to überness) is more important than what you actually do with your character.... ... that überness is something that can be considered a goal in a RPG.
That makes me want to puke honestly.
I could very well enjoy a sandbox game (= where what I do in game matters) even if it had no character advancement whatsoever.
But anyway, character stats improving through levels are the worst possible form of character advancement. They were just made for the early pen&paper (like D&D) to ease character progression by not making you compute all your stats each time you needed to roll some dice. Video games don't need that, since the computer (or server) can make all sorts of complicated stat calculations (with progression) very easily.
Even with pen&paper RPGs nowadays, people realize levels were a very bad idea to begin with. And there are far better stats systems out there.
darkfall or mortal online... be our savior, either one...
Lol he nailed it short and simple. Darkfall is the game i'm waiting for. Reminds me a lot of UO in the old days. No levels. Not gear dependent. Full loot. Sieges great stuff there. If you comes out it will easily blow WoW out of the way no question to it. It'll be one of the games to save the genre imo.
Grinding levels or grinding skill boxes whats the difference?
Alright I hear this argument all the time and its time to kill it once and for all.
In a game with levels
I have been playing for a week and just talked my friend into it. I'm already level 15, he is level 1. What happens now? I get to walk a useless noob through the same stupid quests I just ran through. Or I halt my progress and wait for him to catch up. Sometime later one of us goes on a marathon gaming spree over the weekend and out-levels the other by 20. We never catch up to each other again. One of us is always so weak that our heals aren't effective or we cannot attack with weapon or magic the enemies the other would fight for XP.
In a skill-based game
I had been playing for two weeks when I talked my buddy into playing preCU SWG. I had a really good rifle and some armor but was still a long ways from maxing out my skills. Did I have to run him through quests where I slaughtered everything while he basically just watched? Nope. Did I have to sit around and wait for him to catch up? Nope. Did a weekend marathon of grinding make it useless for us to group anymore? Nope. Right from the start I handed him a maxed stat newbie weapon I'd made and started running missions with him. He was able to do useful amounts of damage and later healing, even though I was more effective. From the very beginning to when the game ended, we were always able to group and play together. As novices we were invited into guilds and were taken to hunt some of the toughest critters in the game and even participated in PvP, long before ever maxing out stats. And while we weren't always heavy hitters, we weren't useless.
Say levels are great because you like them. Say levels are good because its easy to balance. Say levels are wise because it gives people an instant goal without having to think about it. But don't say that level and skill based games are the same thing.
Im not saying they are the same. It seems like the op whats the stuff from the start. LIke instead of grinding for skill boxes you go to pick and choose at character creation.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
The problem isn't leveling the problem is that leveling an end-game are two distinct types of games (and pvp is a third). The 'real game' starts at max level is the problem. The whole game should be the real game. Here are a couple of solutions:
It shouldn't take 2 weeks to reach max level. that just trivilizes the leveling aspect and tus it is useless.
Players should need good gear and skills throughout the whole game to level. Leveling shouldn't just be about runnign through quest hubs and doing them real afst You should actually have to have the right gear to complete quests. In other words bring back grouping and make questing harder. (which i think will make it more fun)
I think a agme that eliminates levlein is a great idea. Not every MMO should go this route but there is definitely room for a game like this on the market.
I don't agree with teh OP at all. Leveling is character development. You can call it grinding, farming, faction rep, skillups, or leveling. They are all character development. So what if you have 50 levels, and it takes an esitmated 6 months to get to. Is that any different than if you needed to gain skills like in Oblivion, or farm for plat for 6 months?
MMOs aren't single player games. They should not take 2-4 weeks to reach the end. They are ever evolving worlds where people come to face challenges that can't be found in single player games.
The OP is asking for a game that he can enter, and be on top within days. How is that challenging?
2-4 weeks to max out or reach the so called endgame? That's pathetically sad but unfortunately what most of the new releases are offering, a dummied down simple game. I think a quality MMOG should take 6 months for a no lifer living in his parents basement playing 24/7 to max out and reach the so called endgame. Then it would take a year or two for regular semi casual players to do the same which would be great for me. The fun is in the journey.
I prefer a pure skill based system but when someone complains about the progression of leveling in a class system, I don't see how they would tolerate maxing each individual skill which can take more effort.
Again like I posted earlier its a buisness. Many people dont want to wait a year and a half or two to hit end game. Sadly too many want a dumbed down game.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Originally posted by Arndur Again like I posted earlier its a buisness. Many people dont want to wait a year and a half or two to hit end game. Sadly too many want a dumbed down game.
Irony much?
All theme park MMOs are dumbed-down. And they are the ones with levels.
Comments
that never will happen lvling been around for along time so gt over it :P
.....
Actually CRPGs are never about roleplaying. At best you get some choices, do you want to be good or evil. But its not like you could actually pick a role and play it. The computer wont care about your actions and your communication. Other players would, sure, but the computer and therefore the game itself wont.
I agree that games don't need character levels, but they do need a way for character advancement. I think it would be good if game devs used an RF Online like advancement method minus the character levels. For those that haven't played RF Online part of their character advancement involved doing stuff to gain experience in a particular attribute. Like you would fight with a close ranged weapon to advance your close ranged skill or cast a spell to advance it as well as your over all magical aptitude.
As for those saying they would like to have a fully maxed out character where all they have to worry about is gear, I personally think that is a stupid idea. With out the character advancement aspect I personally would feel there's nothing to really look forward to since I already have pretty much everything. I mean sure there is the gear, but then once you get that, then what? Also everyone's always complaining about end game content, but what can you really put in that can really keep people entertained once they hit max level?
Many people like you here seem to consider character advancement (read: journey to überness) is more important than what you actually do with your character....
... that überness is something that can be considered a goal in a RPG.
That makes me want to puke honestly.
I could very well enjoy a sandbox game (= where what I do in game matters) even if it had no character advancement whatsoever.
But anyway, character stats improving through levels are the worst possible form of character advancement. They were just made for the early pen&paper (like D&D) to ease character progression by not making you compute all your stats each time you needed to roll some dice.
Video games don't need that, since the computer (or server) can make all sorts of complicated stat calculations (with progression) very easily.
Even with pen&paper RPGs nowadays, people realize levels were a very bad idea to begin with. And there are far better stats systems out there.
---
Waiting for: GW2
*thumbs up*: GW, Eve(, WoW)
*thumbs down*: MO, GA, FE
Lol he nailed it short and simple. Darkfall is the game i'm waiting for. Reminds me a lot of UO in the old days. No levels. Not gear dependent. Full loot. Sieges great stuff there. If you comes out it will easily blow WoW out of the way no question to it. It'll be one of the games to save the genre imo.
Stop the moaning and go play guild wars.
Alright I hear this argument all the time and its time to kill it once and for all.
In a game with levels
I have been playing for a week and just talked my friend into it. I'm already level 15, he is level 1. What happens now? I get to walk a useless noob through the same stupid quests I just ran through. Or I halt my progress and wait for him to catch up. Sometime later one of us goes on a marathon gaming spree over the weekend and out-levels the other by 20. We never catch up to each other again. One of us is always so weak that our heals aren't effective or we cannot attack with weapon or magic the enemies the other would fight for XP.
In a skill-based game
I had been playing for two weeks when I talked my buddy into playing preCU SWG. I had a really good rifle and some armor but was still a long ways from maxing out my skills. Did I have to run him through quests where I slaughtered everything while he basically just watched? Nope. Did I have to sit around and wait for him to catch up? Nope. Did a weekend marathon of grinding make it useless for us to group anymore? Nope. Right from the start I handed him a maxed stat newbie weapon I'd made and started running missions with him. He was able to do useful amounts of damage and later healing, even though I was more effective. From the very beginning to when the game ended, we were always able to group and play together. As novices we were invited into guilds and were taken to hunt some of the toughest critters in the game and even participated in PvP, long before ever maxing out stats. And while we weren't always heavy hitters, we weren't useless.
Say levels are great because you like them. Say levels are good because its easy to balance. Say levels are wise because it gives people an instant goal without having to think about it. But don't say that level and skill based games are the same thing.
Im not saying they are the same. It seems like the op whats the stuff from the start. LIke instead of grinding for skill boxes you go to pick and choose at character creation.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
The problem isn't leveling the problem is that leveling an end-game are two distinct types of games (and pvp is a third). The 'real game' starts at max level is the problem. The whole game should be the real game. Here are a couple of solutions:
It shouldn't take 2 weeks to reach max level. that just trivilizes the leveling aspect and tus it is useless.
Players should need good gear and skills throughout the whole game to level. Leveling shouldn't just be about runnign through quest hubs and doing them real afst You should actually have to have the right gear to complete quests. In other words bring back grouping and make questing harder. (which i think will make it more fun)
I think a agme that eliminates levlein is a great idea. Not every MMO should go this route but there is definitely room for a game like this on the market.
I prefer a pure skill based system but when someone complains about the progression of leveling in a class system, I don't see how they would tolerate maxing each individual skill which can take more effort.
Again like I posted earlier its a buisness. Many people dont want to wait a year and a half or two to hit end game. Sadly too many want a dumbed down game.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
All theme park MMOs are dumbed-down. And they are the ones with levels.
Or do you think long leveling = hard game? lol
---
Waiting for: GW2
*thumbs up*: GW, Eve(, WoW)
*thumbs down*: MO, GA, FE