I think people are misunderstanding the basic concept behind my post.
Here it is in lamen's terms, in all of its glory:
The current MMORPG market is heavily targetted toward people who want to solo the game from level 1 to endgame and I wish there were more MMORPG makers currently making games targetting the OTHER player.
Note: In my original post I describe this "OTHER player."
I've never seen a group on WoW doing anything but instance running and the occasional quest. I've grouped up a few times for a quest every now and then because I had to. I got from 1-70 in WoW and almost a full set of epics almost entirely BY MYSELF.
Depends on what you call a group. Is 2 a group? 3? Because if you consider 2 a group, I know people who NEVER and I repeat NEVER play any other way. They are ALWAYS grouped up when possible. I know 3 husband and wife couples that have played that way the WHOLE game. From 1 to 70. I believe this is fairly common. Now how often do you find groups of 5 questing? Yeah, that's pretty much never, but 2 or 3 in a group questing together? I'd venture to guess that it might be close to 40 or 50% of the players that play that way. That's just a guess, but it's based on my experience. I know quite a few people that enjoy questing together as opposed to solo and despite what some think, I actually believe that questing 2 in a group is faster than soloing it or it's at least as fast.
Edit: Note that I play on a PvP server where it makes quite a bit of sense to group up with at least 1 other person a good bit of time. This might change radically on PvE servers. If you are the type of person that likes to group up and have been playing only on PvE servers, you might try a PvP server.
I think people are misunderstanding the basic concept behind my post. Here it is in lamen's terms, in all of its glory: The current MMORPG market is heavily targetted toward people who want to solo the game from level 1 to endgame and I wish there were more MMORPG makers currently making games targetting the OTHER player. Note: In my original post I describe this "OTHER player."
I don't agree, I think the current MMORPG developers have targetted BOTH sets of individuals equally and tried to make it appeal to both.
I was playing WoW a while back and I thought to myself that I seemed to remember talking to a lot of people when I played Eve so why is that no longer the case. Well apparantly it's WoW cause I started playing Wurm online and I talk to people all night long again.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it. Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
Though I agree with alot of what you said, especialy MMO's turning into a single player heavy experience. Take Ultima Online as an example.
You could raise all your skills to max solo, you can get most of the best items in the game on your own. You really don't have to group, yet I grouped all the time even doing the most mundane things. I grouped with people to explore, check out and hang around each others houses, I even grouped with random people to go fishing just for the company. I had guild wars, roleplayed, went to player made auction houses and sat with around 100 people bidding on server rares for insane amounts of money, I entered a fashion contest and won "Most Disturbing Outfit" I didnt need to do any off this to advance my character I did it to make friends and got more out of the game. I remember spending entire sessions just talking to people face to face in towns about all sorts of things. What new MMO these days can you get to do this? MMO's are devolving into Console third person RPG's with multiplayer tacked on, AoC is prime example. If the game doesnt give you good cause to group or talk to people, its going to have a shit community. If a rude nasty player harrassed other players in UO they were shunned and avoided, in WoW its just normal for players to be like that. So there doesnt need to be forced grouping or group heavy MMO's to get that good community or MMO feel, but it does help.
Locklain called it a grindfest not me ! Sigh... nobody knows how to read Engilsh anymore...
no need to be an asshole. sorry i got mixed up.....plz forgive oh great one.
Nah I was just being fake mad lol
This is off topic but haha Bladeinhand: Lol Metalocalypse.
Also I agree with what you say. I know I could group in WoW, or AoC, or other solo-encouraged games, but they just don't give you "good cause" to do it and be social. This is where... the community goes down the drain.
Locklain called it a grindfest not me ! Sigh... nobody knows how to read Engilsh anymore...
no need to be an asshole. sorry i got mixed up.....plz forgive oh great one.
Nah I was just being fake mad lol
This is off topic but haha Bladeinhand: Lol Metalocalypse.
Also I agree with what you say. I know I could group in WoW, or AoC, or other solo-encouraged games, but they just don't give you "good cause" to do it and be social. This is where... the community goes down the drain.
Ok i just read your post and did not read replies but while reading, some of the stuff you want in a mmo is found in 1 mmo ive played and still do, its called : AIRRIVALS aka SPACECOWBOY ONLINE aka FLYSIS aka ACE ONLINE, lol..
Its cool, PvP is awsome and it DOES affect the players, talk about wanting to feel part of a team? well try it and you will see, its the only game i have experianced most stuff you want from a game but on the other hand there is rewards for pvp, O and they actually farm "players" in this game Heh, crazy but very fun indeed
Yea and there is leader postions and sub leader postions that its important to listen to while in war, most of the time this works but gets a little crazy when it dosent like recently no one seems to listen to leader or he is studying and not fighting but i guess you cant win them all
Well anyway check it out and the subject of building communities this game is defo a builder, sure there is arguments and fights and fallouts but to me that shows just how strong the community is otherwise what is a community if it dosent have those things?
If you want a challenging and rewarding MMO, try EQ2 or Vanguard. The dungeons in both games are pretty challenging, especially if your new to the game.
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I completely agree with you OP. My first mmo was Final Fantasy XI and the grouping/camping and level grinding in that game was amazing. I've never found a MMO since then that could replicate it. I really wish one of the newer MMO's would have the same setup, - you find a group, set up camp, have one person pull mobs back to camp and you work as a team to take it down, then repeat. Camping/grinding for hours on end with cool new people and figuring out strategies to kill mobs fast and efficiently was the most fun I've ever had in a MMO. God I miss those days.
I doubt any new game will ever be group oriented. People want everything easy now a days and if a group oriented MMO were to be released the servers would probably be empty and finding a group would be impossible. I agree WOW sucks and it has hurt MMO's, from now on companies will try to replicate all the garbage in WOW and there will be no innovation. I just hope the MMO Squenix is reportedly working on is a sequel to FF XI with group oriented leveling. PLEASE.
I completely agree with you OP. My first mmo was Final Fantasy XI and the grouping/camping and level grinding in that game was amazing. I've never found a MMO since then that could replicate it. I really wish one of the newer MMO's would have the same setup, - you find a group, set up camp, have one person pull mobs back to camp and you work as a team to take it down, then repeat. Camping/grinding for hours on end with cool new people and figuring out strategies to kill mobs fast and efficiently was the most fun I've ever had in a MMO. God I miss those days. I doubt any new game will ever be group oriented. People want everything easy now a days and if a group oriented MMO were to be released the servers would probably be empty and finding a group would be impossible. I agree WOW sucks and it has hurt MMO's, from now on companies will try to replicate all the garbage in WOW and there will be no innovation. I just hope the MMO Squenix is reportedly working on is a sequel to FF XI with group oriented leveling. PLEASE.
Well that's the thing. You cite standing around in a camp, someone pulling mobs and you guys "shooting the shit" while you figure out how to kill it.
First off, I highly doubt it would take long to figure out how to kill a set of mobs. I've yet to see an MMO ai system that is so highly evolved. But that's no biggie. It is what it is.
Though I enjoy grinding and find it relaxing, I highly doubt that standing around grinding off mobs and talking is compelling gameplay. I want to DO something.
And that seems the crux of it. I see people yearning for "group oriented" game play and "sandbox" games but what it seems to come down to is people just want to grind off mobs or stay stationary while crafting a second online job and yack away.
There is no book or movie that I know of where the characters stand around and kill creatures while they discuss what they did last night, for the entire time.
If there is no greater purpose other than to grind, even if in a group then what's the point? I have friends I don't need to seek faceless online friends though I do enjoy the people that I have met in games. However if that is the only reason to play online games then I want something else.
Greater sense of purpose. I want quests and I want to be able to choose whether I will do solo quests or group quests. Grinding can be fun and relaxing but I want more.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I think we are all burnt out from "quest grinding."
It is coercive, boring, and a cheap way to make "quests."
A quest should be "meaningful" because it impacts your character, lore, and the world in some way.
Well, no argument there for the most part. However, I don't mind more mundane quests as not every quest can be earth shattering. Doesn't have to be "go down the road and give bob a package" but it doesn't have to be demons invading the world for every quest.
As far as quest grinding, don't do it. I think players are their biggest enemies. some are downright insane.
Take LOTRO. There are titles that one can earn in LOTRO. One of the titles is the undying title that one can earn if you are not defeated by lvl 20 (or so).
When the game came out there were several threads by irrate players who kept getting defeated so they would reroll to try for the title, only to reroll again and again and to eventually lose it on the forums.
For a title. That's it. I don't know how old they were but no matter what their age their computers should have been taken away and they should have been given chores to do. Ridiculous.
I've played WoW and it was refreshing to do quests (my main game is Lineage 2... enough said). However I didn't always do quests. I sometimes just camped in a spot and killed things. When I was tired of that I explored a bit.
Same with EQ II. I mostly grind in that game as for some reason I have trouble finding quests that are interesting. Take LOTRO. I've done many quests including the book quests. However, now that I'm 50 I have held off on quests so that I can get the xp once they up the lvl cap. I now just explore, help others, make money, etc.
I make my gameplay experience not the dev's. And in quest based games I decide when I should quest and when I want to do something else.
But for some reason players have adopted this obssessive compulsive must do it all attitude which ruins the game for them.
And really, is quest grinding (and what does that mean? Are you doing the same quests over and over?) any worse than mob grinding?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
A quest should be "meaningful" because it impacts your character, lore, and the world in some way.
I just don't understand how you are going to make a quest that everyone can do that impacts the lore or the world in some way. You have to remember you're not living in a seperate little instance of the world anymore. You are living in the same world that thousands of other players are living in. If the world is changed for you, it's changed for those thousand other folks at the same time.
What happens when someone completes a quest and the lore or the world is impacted? Now what? No one can do that quest again? Or are you gonna "reset" the lore or the world so that someone else can complete the quest again? If you do that, was the world really impacted in the first place? I don't understand how you can do this. You can't make a million quests that can each be done by 1 person and then never again and if you make a quest that can be completed over and over, is anything really changing?
Please explain how this can be done, because I don't see how it can be done in an MMO.
A quest should be "meaningful" because it impacts your character, lore, and the world in some way.
I just don't understand how you are going to make a quest that everyone can do that impacts the lore or the world in some way. You have to remember you're not living in a seperate little instance of the world anymore. You are living in the same world that thousands of other players are living in. If the world is changed for you, it's changed for those thousand other folks at the same time.
What happens when someone completes a quest and the lore or the world is impacted? Now what? No one can do that quest again? Or are you gonna "reset" the lore or the world so that someone else can complete the quest again? If you do that, was the world really impacted in the first place? I don't understand how you can do this. You can't make a million quests that can each be done by 1 person and then never again and if you make a quest that can be completed over and over, is anything really changing?
Please explain how this can be done, because I don't see how it can be done in an MMO.
why would anyone want an mmo very story based. where is the freedom
why would anyone want an mmo very story based. where is the freedom
But that is a huge assumption that everyone is looking for the same qualites in an mmo and one of those pinnacles is "freedom".
Sure there is something to be said about complete and total freedom. However there is a mode of thought in design that indicates that one gets more freedom with some rules. You will find it in art, music and architecture. The reuse of patterns or recomposition of a few ideas. The freedom comes from working around those pillars.
However, to continue, players might be looking for completely different things. Let's look at types of combat. Some players are happy with hidden dice roles and some want to be able to have the attack "connect" by their own skill. Heck, even in how the combat manifests itself can be a point of conjecture. Take Oblivion. Oblvion comes out and the combat is a bit more visceral, a bit more "realistic'. Suddenly all these Elder Scrolls fans start complaining because they want things to be nice and tidy and not a "slug fest". I personally preferred it over morrowind's combat. But that is just an example of how a group of people can desire a certain game or genre of game and have very different ideas as to what is of interest.
So, back to freedom. It is more than apparent that there are players who like quests and who even like some linnear story telling. The rails provide the story but the freedom is how the players react/act in that given situation. Still it is linear and there is an inevitable outcome. But not every player really cares. Like reading a book. It's not just about what you do but the complete experience.
Now some might say "but that's not an mmo". Well who is to say what comprises the particulars of an mmo. Trends and styles in music, art, literature, architecture change all the time. Sure there is a constant, the people, but there was a time in music where complex counterpoint was looked down on and parralell 5ths were unheard of. Now we have music that incorporates all of this and people don't decry that it isn't good music.
Same with art and the use of perspective. Or even the use of detail and color. Perfect example are the Preraphaelites who in their time were considered avante garde and the art was considered garish, garbage.
But now you see prints of their work on romance novels, prints, mugs, etc. How things have changed!
So MMO's will continue to change and evolve. What players want from mmo's will change and evolve. They might even go back to original concepts only to be considered 'novel'.
It's how humanity works.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Locklain called it a grindfest not me ! Sigh... nobody knows how to read Engilsh anymore...
no need to be an asshole. sorry i got mixed up.....plz forgive oh great one.
Nah I was just being fake mad lol
This is off topic but haha Bladeinhand: Lol Metalocalypse.
Also I agree with what you say. I know I could group in WoW, or AoC, or other solo-encouraged games, but they just don't give you "good cause" to do it and be social. This is where... the community goes down the drain.
Haha that was indeed me
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
I made it a goal of mine to get level 70 in WoW (using this as an example because it's apparantly a popular game right now), just so I could experience the game enough to give a real opinion on it. I was able to get from 1-65 without talking to more than a couple of people. At around 65 I joined a group for... A QUEST! How surprising! Then from 65-70 I did not have a need to talk to anyone. The game played itself for me. I accepted a quest, I did it. So do 90% of other players (this is a personal guestimate, by the way, just from what I've seen). How the hell does this build community?
Just because you CAN solo the content, doesn't mean you HAVE to. On a day to day basis I often flip-flop between playing solo and playing in a group. Why? Because that is what I'm in the mood for that day. If I want to solo play for a while I can, if I'd like to venture out and try to meet some new players, I can do that too. Why should we be forced by the game into building community? Those who want to take an active role in the community will, those who prefer not to won't.
The same is true for questing. They are only there to give you something to do if you are the type of person that wants the guided tour. If you don't, please feel free to seek your own purpose and many do in the form of several different types of PvP or by running instances which are not really quest driven.
I made it a goal of mine to get level 70 in WoW (using this as an example because it's apparantly a popular game right now), just so I could experience the game enough to give a real opinion on it. I was able to get from 1-65 without talking to more than a couple of people. At around 65 I joined a group for... A QUEST! How surprising! Then from 65-70 I did not have a need to talk to anyone. The game played itself for me. I accepted a quest, I did it. So do 90% of other players (this is a personal guestimate, by the way, just from what I've seen). How the hell does this build community?
Just because you CAN solo the content, doesn't mean you HAVE to. On a day to day basis I often flip-flop between playing solo and playing in a group. Why? Because that is what I'm in the mood for that day. If I want to solo play for a while I can, if I'd like to venture out and try to meet some new players, I can do that too. Why should we be forced by the game into building community? Those who want to take an active role in the community will, those who prefer not to won't.
The same is true for questing. They are only there to give you something to do if you are the type of person that wants the guided tour. If you don't, please feel free to seek your own purpose and many do in the form of several different types of PvP or by running instances which are not really quest driven.
This guy knows what he's talking about.
You are correct, however, when it is more lucrative to solo quest to the end game how many people actually group, and when they do how long does it last?
The OP's whole deal is that MMOs have changed from the early days. It has always been about selfishness and always will be (its the human way right?). At least when grouping was forced you had people that knew what they were doing and they hung in longer (because it took longer) than just to finish their kill 5 elite bears quest.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
Comments
I think people are misunderstanding the basic concept behind my post.
Here it is in lamen's terms, in all of its glory:
The current MMORPG market is heavily targetted toward people who want to solo the game from level 1 to endgame and I wish there were more MMORPG makers currently making games targetting the OTHER player.
Note: In my original post I describe this "OTHER player."
Excellent Post OP!!! You sound a lot like me !! Come join me in Lineage II!! Look it up! Awesome game!
go to AOC forums look at my posts on thred "If you only played WoW"
Depends on what you call a group. Is 2 a group? 3? Because if you consider 2 a group, I know people who NEVER and I repeat NEVER play any other way. They are ALWAYS grouped up when possible. I know 3 husband and wife couples that have played that way the WHOLE game. From 1 to 70. I believe this is fairly common. Now how often do you find groups of 5 questing? Yeah, that's pretty much never, but 2 or 3 in a group questing together? I'd venture to guess that it might be close to 40 or 50% of the players that play that way. That's just a guess, but it's based on my experience. I know quite a few people that enjoy questing together as opposed to solo and despite what some think, I actually believe that questing 2 in a group is faster than soloing it or it's at least as fast.
Edit: Note that I play on a PvP server where it makes quite a bit of sense to group up with at least 1 other person a good bit of time. This might change radically on PvE servers. If you are the type of person that likes to group up and have been playing only on PvE servers, you might try a PvP server.
I don't agree, I think the current MMORPG developers have targetted BOTH sets of individuals equally and tried to make it appeal to both.
Well, they may have tried, but "imo" they failed.
And I guess this is where the whole "everyone has an asshole and everyone has an opinion" sort of deal kicks in.
/respect to you
/respect to me
I was playing WoW a while back and I thought to myself that I seemed to remember talking to a lot of people when I played Eve so why is that no longer the case. Well apparantly it's WoW cause I started playing Wurm online and I talk to people all night long again.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
i tried to tell him of l2 but he quickly shot it down as an asian grinder
Locklain called it a grindfest not me
!
Sigh... nobody knows how to read Engilsh anymore...
no need to be an asshole. sorry i got mixed up.....plz forgive oh great one.
Though I agree with alot of what you said, especialy MMO's turning into a single player heavy experience. Take Ultima Online as an example.
You could raise all your skills to max solo, you can get most of the best items in the game on your own. You really don't have to group, yet I grouped all the time even doing the most mundane things. I grouped with people to explore, check out and hang around each others houses, I even grouped with random people to go fishing just for the company. I had guild wars, roleplayed, went to player made auction houses and sat with around 100 people bidding on server rares for insane amounts of money, I entered a fashion contest and won "Most Disturbing Outfit" I didnt need to do any off this to advance my character I did it to make friends and got more out of the game. I remember spending entire sessions just talking to people face to face in towns about all sorts of things. What new MMO these days can you get to do this? MMO's are devolving into Console third person RPG's with multiplayer tacked on, AoC is prime example. If the game doesnt give you good cause to group or talk to people, its going to have a shit community. If a rude nasty player harrassed other players in UO they were shunned and avoided, in WoW its just normal for players to be like that. So there doesnt need to be forced grouping or group heavy MMO's to get that good community or MMO feel, but it does help.
no need to be an asshole. sorry i got mixed up.....plz forgive oh great one.
Nah I was just being fake mad lol
This is off topic but haha Bladeinhand: Lol Metalocalypse.
Also I agree with what you say. I know I could group in WoW, or AoC, or other solo-encouraged games, but they just don't give you "good cause" to do it and be social. This is where... the community goes
down the drain.
no need to be an asshole. sorry i got mixed up.....plz forgive oh great one.
Nah I was just being fake mad lol
This is off topic but haha Bladeinhand: Lol Metalocalypse.
Also I agree with what you say. I know I could group in WoW, or AoC, or other solo-encouraged games, but they just don't give you "good cause" to do it and be social. This is where... the community goes
down the drain.
ok sorry
Ok i just read your post and did not read replies but while reading, some of the stuff you want in a mmo is found in 1 mmo ive played and still do, its called : AIRRIVALS aka SPACECOWBOY ONLINE aka FLYSIS aka ACE ONLINE, lol..
Its cool, PvP is awsome and it DOES affect the players, talk about wanting to feel part of a team? well try it and you will see, its the only game i have experianced most stuff you want from a game but on the other hand there is rewards for pvp, O and they actually farm "players" in this game Heh, crazy but very fun indeed
Yea and there is leader postions and sub leader postions that its important to listen to while in war, most of the time this works but gets a little crazy when it dosent like recently no one seems to listen to leader or he is studying and not fighting but i guess you cant win them all
Well anyway check it out and the subject of building communities this game is defo a builder, sure there is arguments and fights and fallouts but to me that shows just how strong the community is otherwise what is a community if it dosent have those things?
WarWolf
ANI
Helix
www.airrivals.net/
to the OP.
If you want a challenging and rewarding MMO, try EQ2 or Vanguard. The dungeons in both games are pretty challenging, especially if your new to the game.
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I completely agree with you OP. My first mmo was Final Fantasy XI and the grouping/camping and level grinding in that game was amazing. I've never found a MMO since then that could replicate it. I really wish one of the newer MMO's would have the same setup, - you find a group, set up camp, have one person pull mobs back to camp and you work as a team to take it down, then repeat. Camping/grinding for hours on end with cool new people and figuring out strategies to kill mobs fast and efficiently was the most fun I've ever had in a MMO. God I miss those days.
I doubt any new game will ever be group oriented. People want everything easy now a days and if a group oriented MMO were to be released the servers would probably be empty and finding a group would be impossible. I agree WOW sucks and it has hurt MMO's, from now on companies will try to replicate all the garbage in WOW and there will be no innovation. I just hope the MMO Squenix is reportedly working on is a sequel to FF XI with group oriented leveling. PLEASE.
Well that's the thing. You cite standing around in a camp, someone pulling mobs and you guys "shooting the shit" while you figure out how to kill it.
First off, I highly doubt it would take long to figure out how to kill a set of mobs. I've yet to see an MMO ai system that is so highly evolved. But that's no biggie. It is what it is.
Though I enjoy grinding and find it relaxing, I highly doubt that standing around grinding off mobs and talking is compelling gameplay. I want to DO something.
And that seems the crux of it. I see people yearning for "group oriented" game play and "sandbox" games but what it seems to come down to is people just want to grind off mobs or stay stationary while crafting a second online job and yack away.
There is no book or movie that I know of where the characters stand around and kill creatures while they discuss what they did last night, for the entire time.
If there is no greater purpose other than to grind, even if in a group then what's the point? I have friends I don't need to seek faceless online friends though I do enjoy the people that I have met in games. However if that is the only reason to play online games then I want something else.
Greater sense of purpose. I want quests and I want to be able to choose whether I will do solo quests or group quests. Grinding can be fun and relaxing but I want more.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I think we are all burnt out from "quest grinding."
It is coercive, boring, and a cheap way to make "quests."
A quest should be "meaningful" because it impacts your character, lore, and the world in some way.
Well, no argument there for the most part. However, I don't mind more mundane quests as not every quest can be earth shattering. Doesn't have to be "go down the road and give bob a package" but it doesn't have to be demons invading the world for every quest.
As far as quest grinding, don't do it. I think players are their biggest enemies. some are downright insane.
Take LOTRO. There are titles that one can earn in LOTRO. One of the titles is the undying title that one can earn if you are not defeated by lvl 20 (or so).
When the game came out there were several threads by irrate players who kept getting defeated so they would reroll to try for the title, only to reroll again and again and to eventually lose it on the forums.
For a title. That's it. I don't know how old they were but no matter what their age their computers should have been taken away and they should have been given chores to do. Ridiculous.
I've played WoW and it was refreshing to do quests (my main game is Lineage 2... enough said). However I didn't always do quests. I sometimes just camped in a spot and killed things. When I was tired of that I explored a bit.
Same with EQ II. I mostly grind in that game as for some reason I have trouble finding quests that are interesting. Take LOTRO. I've done many quests including the book quests. However, now that I'm 50 I have held off on quests so that I can get the xp once they up the lvl cap. I now just explore, help others, make money, etc.
I make my gameplay experience not the dev's. And in quest based games I decide when I should quest and when I want to do something else.
But for some reason players have adopted this obssessive compulsive must do it all attitude which ruins the game for them.
And really, is quest grinding (and what does that mean? Are you doing the same quests over and over?) any worse than mob grinding?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
What happens when someone completes a quest and the lore or the world is impacted? Now what? No one can do that quest again? Or are you gonna "reset" the lore or the world so that someone else can complete the quest again? If you do that, was the world really impacted in the first place? I don't understand how you can do this. You can't make a million quests that can each be done by 1 person and then never again and if you make a quest that can be completed over and over, is anything really changing?
Please explain how this can be done, because I don't see how it can be done in an MMO.
What happens when someone completes a quest and the lore or the world is impacted? Now what? No one can do that quest again? Or are you gonna "reset" the lore or the world so that someone else can complete the quest again? If you do that, was the world really impacted in the first place? I don't understand how you can do this. You can't make a million quests that can each be done by 1 person and then never again and if you make a quest that can be completed over and over, is anything really changing?
Please explain how this can be done, because I don't see how it can be done in an MMO.
why would anyone want an mmo very story based. where is the freedom
But that is a huge assumption that everyone is looking for the same qualites in an mmo and one of those pinnacles is "freedom".
Sure there is something to be said about complete and total freedom. However there is a mode of thought in design that indicates that one gets more freedom with some rules. You will find it in art, music and architecture. The reuse of patterns or recomposition of a few ideas. The freedom comes from working around those pillars.
However, to continue, players might be looking for completely different things. Let's look at types of combat. Some players are happy with hidden dice roles and some want to be able to have the attack "connect" by their own skill. Heck, even in how the combat manifests itself can be a point of conjecture. Take Oblivion. Oblvion comes out and the combat is a bit more visceral, a bit more "realistic'. Suddenly all these Elder Scrolls fans start complaining because they want things to be nice and tidy and not a "slug fest". I personally preferred it over morrowind's combat. But that is just an example of how a group of people can desire a certain game or genre of game and have very different ideas as to what is of interest.
So, back to freedom. It is more than apparent that there are players who like quests and who even like some linnear story telling. The rails provide the story but the freedom is how the players react/act in that given situation. Still it is linear and there is an inevitable outcome. But not every player really cares. Like reading a book. It's not just about what you do but the complete experience.
Now some might say "but that's not an mmo". Well who is to say what comprises the particulars of an mmo. Trends and styles in music, art, literature, architecture change all the time. Sure there is a constant, the people, but there was a time in music where complex counterpoint was looked down on and parralell 5ths were unheard of. Now we have music that incorporates all of this and people don't decry that it isn't good music.
Same with art and the use of perspective. Or even the use of detail and color. Perfect example are the Preraphaelites who in their time were considered avante garde and the art was considered garish, garbage.
But now you see prints of their work on romance novels, prints, mugs, etc. How things have changed!
So MMO's will continue to change and evolve. What players want from mmo's will change and evolve. They might even go back to original concepts only to be considered 'novel'.
It's how humanity works.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
no need to be an asshole. sorry i got mixed up.....plz forgive oh great one.
Nah I was just being fake mad lol
This is off topic but haha Bladeinhand: Lol Metalocalypse.
Also I agree with what you say. I know I could group in WoW, or AoC, or other solo-encouraged games, but they just don't give you "good cause" to do it and be social. This is where... the community goes
down the drain.
Haha that was indeed me
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The same is true for questing. They are only there to give you something to do if you are the type of person that wants the guided tour. If you don't, please feel free to seek your own purpose and many do in the form of several different types of PvP or by running instances which are not really quest driven.
This guy knows what he's talking about.
The same is true for questing. They are only there to give you something to do if you are the type of person that wants the guided tour. If you don't, please feel free to seek your own purpose and many do in the form of several different types of PvP or by running instances which are not really quest driven.
This guy knows what he's talking about.
You are correct, however, when it is more lucrative to solo quest to the end game how many people actually group, and when they do how long does it last?The OP's whole deal is that MMOs have changed from the early days. It has always been about selfishness and always will be (its the human way right?). At least when grouping was forced you had people that knew what they were doing and they hung in longer (because it took longer) than just to finish their kill 5 elite bears quest.
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To the OP:
Yep you are definately fruitcake, and yep, I completely agree with you.
Then again, I'm a loony too.
Bring back the DAoC era!