1. Battlegrounds - be prepared to spend most of your life in here if you even want to try and compete. There's a massive world that goes ignored while 90% of players are in here lookin for gear.
You'd be whining if there weren't any BGs at all, so it's kind of a lose-lose for Blizzard (or any developer for that matter). Nothing is ever good enough for you people. Either they don't have battlegrounds and people cry about not having things to do, or they have battlegrounds and people cry that they aren't good enough. Probably be whining EVEN more if there weren't any BGs at all (like in release). Just like PvErs would be whining if there was 1 final instanced dungeon added in TBC and 4 endgame instances overall. If there were like 20 and he said it was not enough I would say it was exaggerated but 4 compared to the number of PvE instances? BGs are fun when they came out. Too few. Not massive. That's it. Hold on a second. Yeah, there are only 4 BG's, but that's not the extent of the PvP options, so let's not compare it to all of the PvE instances. Along with the 4 BG's, there are 3v3, 4v4 and 5v5 Arenas, both competitive and just for fun. Along with that there is a PvP ladder server with nothing but PvP on it. On top of that there are many many PvP objectives thrown about all over the world, I believe that most zones in Outlands have one. And that still leaves plenty of opportunities for spontaneous World PvP to occur anytime you see someone from the opposite faction on PvP servers. For the all the talk of no World PvP, I still seem to be engaged in it just about everytime I'm in a zone in Outlands just trying to level up. And Blizzard is going to add a full zone of PvP in the next expansion. So while the PvP opportunities may not be quite up to snuff with the PvE options, there's a little more than the 4 BG's have to offer. There are plenty of opportunities for PvP for everyone.
As I said, 4 BGs + arena. (including the tiers) is just not good for PvP. The world PvP objectives are not endgame and you're only doing it while ur levelling incidentally up or being ganked. There is no more Massive PvP as there should be in an MMO. People being ganked by other while PvEing is not good PvP. You're in PvE gear, PvE spec whoa you got jumped by a rogue! world pvp? lol. How many times have you engaged in end-game (max level) purposeful PvP in the world (while not battling for PvE objectives or ganking PvErs?) Blizzards zone of PvP sounds like a step in the right direction but still.... 4 years too late and seems reactionary to WAR. Why add it suddenly after 4 years? Why talk about adding siege for 4 years and not do it? Why shouldn't you compare it to all the PvE instances? What was added to PvP in TBC? 1 BG, Halaa (which to me is fail), and arenas. What did they add to Pve?........ hmmm how many instances, mobs, quests etc.... So as you said, the PvP opportunities aren't up to snuff with the PvE options, and I fully agree with you there. I simply left out world PvP because it is pretty much dead except for levelling, gankers and incidental passing. There is no real concrete and progressive PvP objectives and most of it is item or loot driven. Of course they are different scales to everyone's acceptance of adequate PvP and for me it doesn't cut it and still feels like a PvE centric game. On top of that there are.. No PvP quests. No PvP large world objectives that actually matter in the long run. No PvP progression. No sieges or keep captures (cept for towers for PvE control) to date. No mainly PvP zones. There maybe many aspects of PvE where wow shines but for the serious PvPer, its nowhere near what an massive pvp centric game should be. In a PvP centric game objectives won't be increasing PvE dominance, more like the other way around. There is not plenty of opportunities for PvP for everyone, because its not enough PvP for me and last I looked, I'm part of everyone.
WoW has two problems... its was released in 2004 with a graphics engine designed to accomidate everyone so by 2008 standards its looking dated and two, it came out in 2004 so the bulk of us have had our fill. Doesn't make anything that has come since better, just different and after years in WoW that's really all it takes. WoW is still the benchmark for what MMO quality and content should be though.
As I said, 4 BGs + arena. Plus a dedicated PvP server. I don't believe there's anything like this for any other MMO except maybe Fury which was designed as a PvP only game. How many times have you engaged in end-game (max level) purposeful PvP in the world (while not battling for PvE objectives or ganking PvErs?) Oh, I don't know, maybe a couple dozen times. Have besieged Halaa on occasion. Been known to break up a few Horde parties at the ring of blood. Have fought over the towers in Terrokar Forest a few times. Even beseiged Orgrimmar a couple times...oh but wait those are all either PvE objectives or ganking PvErs. Guess I don't really need any "purposeful" PvP, I just like to engage in PvP I guess. Guess that's why I chose a PvP server. Not all of us NEED a purpose to engage in something we enjoy. Blizzards zone of PvP sounds like a step in the right direction but still.... 4 years too late and seems reactionary to WAR. Why add it suddenly after 4 years? Why talk about adding siege for 4 years and not do it? Better late than never. It's not like they have been doing nothing in the last 4 years. They added a PvP honor system then revamped it, 4 BG's, Arena's, several PvP world objectives and a full blown PvP tournament server. Slackers. Why shouldn't you compare it to all the PvE instances? What was added to PvP in TBC? 1 BG, Halaa (which to me is fail), Since it's fail to you, it's fail to everyone? Personally I think it's a lot of fun. The bombing runs are a great way for people with toons below 70 to help out and those geared for PvP get to rush the town. What's not to like? Is it used much? Not a lot, but it's still there and I still see it change hands everyday. No PvP quests. Incorrect. There are daily PvP quest in Honor Hold and Terrokar forrest which are actually pretty popular. I see people capturing them all the time. Granted that much of the time someone just runs in unapposed, but you'll see people fight over the objectives too. No PvP progression. Not sure what you mean by this. No sieges or keep captures (cept for towers for PvE control) to date. But coming in the next expansion. No mainly PvP zones. But coming in the next expansion. There maybe many aspects of PvE where wow shines but for the serious PvPer, its nowhere near what an massive pvp centric game should be. That's because it's NOT a PvP centric game. The PvE and PvP sides are fairly well balanced. It might tip a bit in favor of the PvE side, but it's not as bad as you're making it out. In a PvP centric game objectives won't be increasing PvE dominance, more like the other way around. Like I said, it's NOT a PvP centric game. It caters to both the PvP player and non PvP player. Sorry that's not what you prefer, many do. There is not plenty of opportunities for PvP for everyone, because its not enough PvP for me and last I looked, I'm part of everyone. A very small part.
and why I left it for those glancing over looking for a new game. TLDR: WoW sucks. look elsewhere 1. Battlegrounds - be prepared to spend most of your life in here if you even want to try and compete. There's a massive world that goes ignored while 90% of players are in here lookin for gear. 2. Arenas - A failed attempt at an Electronic sport. Even most players hate it. Blizzard won't give it up so it's left as the major focus of the game. Forget raiding Orgrimmar or Stormwind! hop in this cage for endless hours. 3. The world is a lie. 4. You either PvP or PvE, there's no in between. The gear you get in pve won't help you in pvp and vice versa. At one point you could do group dungeons and pvp and both aspects were rewarded. not anymore. 5. There's just no meaningful endgame.
Thanks for reading. You'd thank me if you only knew.
I left wow a fair while ago, because I just got plain bored tbh, however I wouldn't say I agree with much of what you have said personally...
1. Under the pvp old ranking system, sure you needed to spend damn near 24 hours in the bgs if you wanted to get the top gear and ranks. In the new system this is not nearly as bad, however I would say when the new system initially came in, there was a total gold rush for gear because in comparison to how hard it used to be to get it, it became childs play. By the time I left, this had calmed down a lot.
2. Arenas. I played pvp extensively before the ranking system but once that was removed pvp lost a lot of interest for me, not to mention being a kick in the balls for the countless hours I had spent in the bgs before the change... Anyway, can't say that the arenas held much attraction for me and I never set a virtual foot in a single one. Maybe a lot of people felt the same?
3. Well....obviously the world is not real....not sure what you mean by this.
4. I disagree with there being no crossover between pvp and pve. A top level raid armor set has always outstripped a top level pvp armor set. Generally the stats were always slightly improved but the MAJOR addition was the resistances, pvp gear never had resistances, I assume this is still the case. However I would say that for exactly the same reasons, a pvp armor set will not fair well in any but the most basic top level dungeons, so a pure pvper will struggle if they choose to switch to pve and raiding.
5. No mmorpg will never allow you to feel you have truly completed it. If this was the case, people would just complete it and move on cancelling their subscription. The creators would pretty much be shooting themselves in the foot.
No mmorpg has an infinite timespan for any player, in the end everyone will get bored and leave.
I also played WOW for 2 years and im so glad i left. The biggest issue is the Blizz feels the pressure and with that in the last year has made WOW so easy that 5 years olds can play and do play. Anyone who can say at level 70 they accomplished anything is a lie. I have raided with people that still dont understand there class, which is Sad at 70. Right now Blizz is doing there best to get everyone to 70 for the expansion. Problem with Blizz now a days is that its not about the game anymore. Its all about money. Which is sad.
Here's my big problem with ALL mmorpgs that are out of being released:
There's a general lack of consequence of action. Basically, everything you do in WoW is completely meaningless to anyone but you. Here's what I want, and I am well aware that it's rediculously difficult to implement; Meaningful PvP as well as meaningful PvE. Have my actions actually effect the game world and how it operates. I want to have quests that actually effect the state of the virtual world and provide my race/personal character with some sort of advantage. Have world PvP effect more than having a small combat or experience bonus.
Anyway, it may be a long way off, but it's something to shoot for. This is what sepparates good games from great games.
Here's my big problem with ALL mmorpgs that are out of being released: There's a general lack of consequence of action. Basically, everything you do in WoW is completely meaningless to anyone but you. Here's what I want, and I am well aware that it's rediculously difficult to implement; Meaningful PvP as well as meaningful PvE. Have my actions actually effect the game world and how it operates. I want to have quests that actually effect the state of the virtual world and provide my race/personal character with some sort of advantage. Have world PvP effect more than having a small combat or experience bonus. Anyway, it may be a long way off, but it's something to shoot for. This is what sepparates good games from great games.
Im not to sure if WAR is still using the idea, but last year when I looked into it they had a RvR system that was simular to what you are talking about. What people did in RvR at level 20 effected the other level groups as well. Like i said though I havent looked into if they kept the idea.
Originally posted by Malvolentia and why I left it for those glancing over looking for a new game. TLDR: WoW sucks. look elsewhere 1. Battlegrounds - be prepared to spend most of your life in here if you even want to try and compete. There's a massive world that goes ignored while 90% of players are in here lookin for gear. 2. Arenas - A failed attempt at an Electronic sport. Even most players hate it. Blizzard won't give it up so it's left as the major focus of the game. Forget raiding Orgrimmar or Stormwind! hop in this cage for endless hours. 3. The world is a lie. 4. You either PvP or PvE, there's no in between. The gear you get in pve won't help you in pvp and vice versa. At one point you could do group dungeons and pvp and both aspects were rewarded. not anymore. 5. There's just no meaningful endgame.
Thanks for reading. You'd thank me if you only knew.
Can't be bothered to go through all the replies, so if i repeat anything then i am sorry, but my take on the above;
1 - Just pick up on the point you made there about "if you want to compete", well not everyone does, me for one. I rarely do BG's and have only ever done about 15 arena battles, not that i don't enjoy them, i just enjoy other aspects of the game.
2 - Again, arena's are not a 'major' focus of the game as far as i am concerned, so blizzard can do what they want with them.
3 - What does this even mean? It is a fantasy multiplayer game and no it doesn't have flight simulator photo realistic 3d terrain or top AI reponsive NPC's, but hey, it seems to have worked for most people.
4 - I personally use one set of gear for both PvP and PvE, but then again i just do it all for then fun of it, so win or lose it's all the same to me as long as i enjoy myself. I get through instances with a good degree of success and i can take most PvE targets on a 2-1 or 3-1 basis, so i am pretty happy
5 - What do you want exactly, an instance that when you complete it throws up a huge firework display and a banner reading "WELL DONE YOU HAVE COMPLETED WORLD OF WARCRAFT", please accept this major armour upgrade and wait for the next expansion release <exit to desktop>.
At the end of the day it is an MMO and it has to have elements within it to keep players coming back time and time again, no matter how annoying some of those elements may be. I have been playing since release and realised long ago that chasing the top kit all the time only leads to annoyance and frustration, so i decided to explore the social aspects of the game and have never been happier since. I now fill most of my time helping out guild mates and newbies and only dabble in those other things as and when the mood takes me.
Everything you have written there is from a personal point of view and to think that everyone feels the same way and will view the game in the same way as you is arrogant to say the least. Everyone will have their own take on the game and will love or hate different aspects depending on their play style, so i would say don't listen to me, the op or any other poster here just try it for yourself and make up your own mind.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
WoW is as fun as you make it, people on MMORPG seems to be aiming out the bad points all the time... If you just play WoW with your friends, and have some drinks with it, then it should be really fun Just think about the good sides of the game. UI is almost compleatly controlled by Player. You can customize it as you like. Umm, You can master the BG's and make them your home, no fun if you have a new bg every day >:<
WoW does not suck. No other game is as good as WoW overall. (I read an argument the other day... "If you watch the other games closely you'll notice that they got atleast one quality that's better than WoW") Wtf?
WoW is quality, graphics seems to work for everyone. Classes are unique. Some simple to play, but hard to master. You got really many spells and skills that never turn useless. Skills you have throughout the game. There's alot to learn, and there's alot of space to become a better player. It's playable both for hardcore and casual. Why does it suck?
XD I laughed when OP said the world is lie. Geez please show me one that isn't XD
I would have said the one outside your door.
But, hell....technically its only as real as you are alive anyway. Even then, most of its foundation and its structure are all lies and propaganda anyway.
1. I just love the Bg's. I am Justicar with my Paladin and so had about 1500 flag scores in WSG, About 1000 AB runs and AV is in 25% in its new form a midfield battle for the towers with sometimes 30 against 30 battling it out (not longer PVE's who interfere).
The moment I hit exalted with the last flag score in WSG I had a feeling I never ever had in any game.
So being Justicar feels incredible and ever since then I am leveling my second character to Justicar. Imagine you can have EVERY DAY at least 10 AV fights with 40vs40 and never a frame drop. In Conan you need to wait for that 14 days to have one at 6 Frames per second.
I can't wait for WotLK and their siege systems and D-Day landing BG.
2. Arena is PURE adrenaline. We shout, we curse at each other through our micros and the tension is so high that mostly after 15 short fights we all hang in the corner to have oxigen. )
Arena is the real sports of PvP. Too hard for 95% of the so called hardened world PvP guys who think that ganking a guy 3 to 1 is fun.
3. The world of Wow is like human nature: the demons and the bad within lead to war and corruption.
Read the books and see how your own heroes become corrupted and fall for the greed.
4. PVE or PVP? . I change exaclty 3(!) gears on my holy paladin and do arena, BG or Raids. In BG I have 495 resilience (highest), in Arena I have 353 (because I want my Holy shock) and in the Raids I have about 1950 healing buffed.
So in changing 3 gears I can have my roles: BG - Arena - Raids.
OP: Learn to play.
5. The BEST part of Wow is its end game these days. Certainly since patch 2.3. because with the intro of the daily quests in ALL aspects of the game (Heroics, BG's, Gathering professions, solo's), you end up fine tuning your character to a very high level the way YOU decide - no longer the need to follow raids per se).
Also by the VAST amount of choises of its end game you can even have a Paladin these days with FULL epics in Holy - Tank AND DPS. 3 complete different playing styles with just ONE character at the highest level. From healer to tank to pure DPS. All in epics.
And the respec costs is ... 4 daily quests of 30 minutes total.
Try this with another fantasy RPG.
And guess what ;I raid 1 time a week and hardly play 3 hours a day. But I am playing it 3 years yes.
OP: I bet you are just a leveler and don't know how to play past level 70.
But they STILL want to state worthless opnions.
1. You hit exalted and you had a great feeling. Way to go. When I first hit exalted Pre-BC and got the TUF. (my first equiped epic) I too felt great. But you know where I was going with it? It wasn't back into the AV I just spent 1000 hours. It was to the world to crush players where even tho minimal. There's an actual thrill and death penalty in running back to your body. Not the FPS respawn in BGs. Sadly they've built the game around BGs/Arenas so much, it became rare to fight outside of them. So here we have a great world the original designers put their hearts and souls into, going to complete waste.
2. Arenas got my heart thumping as well the first few times I played it. But let's break down arenas. It's widely accepted that
A. It's unbalanced and favors a few class combos
B. My Gear > Your gear.
C. Exploited beyond belief
D. Has no effect on the actual world. Lol I mean you're not even battling the opposing faction. It's a joke. You're playing a minigame inside of the game rather then battling in the world where you should be.
E. This is an MMO and you're fighting battles with 5on5. Strike as you kind of strange?
Lol at your "too hard for world PvP" guys. Arenas a predictable enviroment you're running classic strats of CC.
Chances are an "Arena pro" like yourself wouldn't know how to handle a world pvp encounter. You'd be saying..."mmm wait, hold on I didn't hear the door open hold up....oh my cooldowns aren't ready wait......
It's glorified dueling, not pvp. IMO
PvP is unpredictable and thrilling and has a penalty for dying. You'll hardly find that in your 1000th game of arenas/bgs
3. I'm probably a bigger fan of Blizzard's lore then you realize, but
A. Blood elves on horde
B. Spaceships
C. One of the coolest things, faction specific class, was taken out as Blizzard realized it couldn't balance the game.
It's pretty obvious to anyone who isn't a mindless fanboi drone that they kicked lore to the side for BC to help balance the game out.
4. I'm glad that time you have the time to acquire gear for arena, pve, tank, and blah blah blah. But I find it ridiculous you have to set aside gear for that many aspects. When I played Pre-BC I had 1 set that got to do everything for my characters. Healers set aside for this.
The point I'm making here is there was gear rewards on both sides PvE and PvP that you could use for pve and pvp, made every good loot pickup worth getting. Welcome to the world of resilience. You ain't pvping in that gear son. 1000 games of bgs for you.
5. I can only assume this is your first MMO if you think WoW's endgame is something to be praised. Not only is the crafting system clicking on nodes, there's no housing, hardly anyway to distinguish yourself from other players. Clones. There's no city being taken. There's no enviromental changes in the game. No guilds battling for control of Azeroth, no cities being built and so on and so forth.
Your endgame is daily quests, battlegrounds, sit in shatrath.
The game is ok to level in, but beyond that it's a shallow game. More of an FPS/grinder at where it's at now.
Don't worry about me "learning to play" I knew how to play, I just didn't want to anymore cause I knew where it was going.
The best of WoW is behind us.
Have fun in your 2100th game of Arathi Basin at level 80.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
Here's my big problem with ALL mmorpgs that are out of being released: There's a general lack of consequence of action. Basically, everything you do in WoW is completely meaningless to anyone but you. Here's what I want, and I am well aware that it's rediculously difficult to implement; Meaningful PvP as well as meaningful PvE. Have my actions actually effect the game world and how it operates. I want to have quests that actually effect the state of the virtual world and provide my race/personal character with some sort of advantage. Have world PvP effect more than having a small combat or experience bonus. Anyway, it may be a long way off, but it's something to shoot for. This is what sepparates good games from great games.
Ya I couldn't agree more.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
WoW has two problems... its was released in 2004 with a graphics engine designed to accomidate everyone so by 2008 standards its looking dated and two, it came out in 2004 so the bulk of us have had our fill. Doesn't make anything that has come since better, just different and after years in WoW that's really all it takes. WoW is still the benchmark for what MMO quality and content should be though.
I agree with this. Blizzard's games are always polished, good quality, superior UIs, and overall fun to play.
I just found WoW lacking in it's endgame and not what I wanted in an RPG game. It feels more like an fps with no risk and no rewards.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
As I said, 4 BGs + arena. Plus a dedicated PvP server. I don't believe there's anything like this for any other MMO except maybe Fury which was designed as a PvP only game. Actually daoc had more massive world pvp in it. So does eve i hear but haven't tried it. How many times have you engaged in end-game (max level) purposeful PvP in the world (while not battling for PvE objectives or ganking PvErs?) Oh, I don't know, maybe a couple dozen times. Have besieged Halaa on occasion. Been known to break up a few Horde parties at the ring of blood. Have fought over the towers in Terrokar Forest a few times. Even beseiged Orgrimmar a couple times...oh but wait those are all either PvE objectives or ganking PvErs. Guess I don't really need any "purposeful" PvP, I just like to engage in PvP I guess. Guess that's why I chose a PvP server. Not all of us NEED a purpose to engage in something we enjoy. Ok no count how many times you've done world PvE and match up the numbers. Halaa is a joke, the rewards are crap and the point of holding it is mainly for PvE purposes which outside of levelling and occasional farming is useless. Sometimes its fun but really it does not hold a very big role in end-game PvP. Blizzards zone of PvP sounds like a step in the right direction but still.... 4 years too late and seems reactionary to WAR. Why add it suddenly after 4 years? Why talk about adding siege for 4 years and not do it? Better late than never. It's not like they have been doing nothing in the last 4 years. They added a PvP honor system then revamped it, 4 BG's, Arena's, several PvP world objectives and a full blown PvP tournament server. Slackers. 4 BGs and arena a scattered world objectives is not sufficient content addition vs what they have added for PvE.
Why shouldn't you compare it to all the PvE instances? What was added to PvP in TBC? 1 BG, Halaa (which to me is fail), Since it's fail to you, it's fail to everyone? Personally I think it's a lot of fun. The bombing runs are a great way for people with toons below 70 to help out and those geared for PvP get to rush the town. What's not to like? Is it used much? Not a lot, but it's still there and I still see it change hands everyday. Don't put words in my mouth. Its fail to mean simply means its fail to me, when did i say it was fail to everyone? I don't use sweeping statements and neither should you. Its lack of purposeful PvP imho.
No PvP quests. Incorrect. There are daily PvP quest in Honor Hold and Terrokar forrest which are actually pretty popular. I see people capturing them all the time. Granted that much of the time someone just runs in unapposed, but you'll see people fight over the objectives too. Haha those are more like PvE quests. There's hardly any opposition to that. Anytime you see people running around without attacking another player and getting rewards, sounds like PvE to me or maybe PvNo-one. No PvP progression. Not sure what you mean by this. If you don't get it this I guess you can't explain it.
No sieges or keep captures (cept for towers for PvE control) to date. But coming in the next expansion. Yeah that's what to date means. No mainly PvP zones. But coming in the next expansion. Currently none right? There maybe many aspects of PvE where wow shines but for the serious PvPer, its nowhere near what an massive pvp centric game should be. That's because it's NOT a PvP centric game. The PvE and PvP sides are fairly well balanced. It might tip a bit in favor of the PvE side, but it's not as bad as you're making it out. See I'm not making it out to be anything, I'm presenting it as what it is the 4BG and arena which is the only serious endgame past level 70 PvP that actually matters. (Not incidentals on trying to level up and gain control or help friends levelling but actually getting something out of it like rewards, progression etc... just as you would in arena/BGs) In a PvP centric game objectives won't be increasing PvE dominance, more like the other way around. Like I said, it's NOT a PvP centric game. It caters to both the PvP player and non PvP player. Sorry that's not what you prefer, many do. Many don't as well, and many only conform because of lack of alternatives. There is not plenty of opportunities for PvP for everyone, because its not enough PvP for me and last I looked, I'm part of everyone. A very small part. Your point? I'm still a part. You said it was enough PvP for everyone and its not for me... so? It's not everyone. Just retract that part. Thanks for ur reply. Keep it coming imo I love talking about PvP.
Originally posted by Malvolentia I just found WoW lacking in it's endgame and not what I wanted in an RPG game. It feels more like an fps with no risk and no rewards.
So what should it be? What should they be including? How should these changes be implemented to fit within the current framework? What should the 'endgame' consist of that would please you yet not alienate the majority of the comunity?
Just on your little statement there is it that the game is not what you want in an MMO or an RPG, because those are two very different things and you haven't mentioned the lack of RP in your list unless that is what you meant about the world being a lie?
It is all very well to come on to forums, piss and moan about how the game does not meet your needs, but unless you relay those issues to the proper people with some constructive and meaningful alternatives it is all just hot air! Just playing until you are bored, moaning that it isn't what you want any more and closing your account in a strop isn't going to make the changes you want magically appear is it?
If you want to change a game you need to get involved with it's developers, take part in the testing so you can give the proper feedback, e-mail in your ideas with some details about how they would improve the game experience. Of course the majority of what anyone suggests will fall by the way side as Blizzard will have plans in place for a lot of stuff already and may see how some things fit a little differently, but if you don't get involved at all then you have no chance of influencing anything and really no right to complain!
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
It's not like you CAN'T raid Orgrimmar or Stormwind, there is just no point in it.
There is a point in doing something in any video game: to have fun. What kind of player are you? do you want just to be the best of the best? I personally like to have fun in games.
Originally posted by AcidicTRG
Of course there's nothing meaningful - it's a video game. If you're looking for some sort of fulfillment, you probably won't find it in ANY MMO.
Well that's a problem most mmorpg developers don't tend to. I like in mmorpg's to feel like I'm a hero when I finish a task or get some new weapons/armor or kill some powerfull guy. However you rarely have a feeling like that in today's mmo's.
HAHA, I love it when people complain about grinding, thats all you ever do in any game you will ever play, it's the nature of gaming. Dress it up however you wish, wrestle with the semantics on the word grinding all you wish but the act of playing is the essence of grinding.
When it comes down to it, enjoy a game or not. You have the right to your list and the well thought out points just as some have the right to refute your list with well thought out points.
I for one keep going back to WOW because I still have fun there, it's a world i enjoy, and aside from the given tools that blanket global chat with assinine comments, there are some actual good people who make the social aspect worthwhile.
If everyone on these boards spent as much time developing themselves to create games instead of just complaining/defending them then we might actually see some great games emerge in our lifetimes.
I do have to ask though, what do you mean by the "world is a lie" comment? I am just not smart enough to figure that one out.
_____________________________ If you are insulted by being called a fanboi it's a good bet that you are one
No matter what anyone says it has a high addiction factor and it's a good gateway into the MMO genre for new players. How many people who have never played an MMO know how important or useless "endgame" is? Huh? After playing WoW, they get an idea.
It's fun for a while it's certainly not the best but I'm comfortable saying it's the McDonald's of MMOs. Popular, decent in it's own right, has certain health risk factors if you're not careful (AHHH THE SUN IT BURNS! 8 hours raiding AGHHHH) but overall it's not half bad. Until you're bored of it.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
I just found WoW lacking in it's endgame and not what I wanted in an RPG game. It feels more like an fps with no risk and no rewards.
So what should it be? What should they be including? How should these changes be implemented to fit within the current framework? What should the 'endgame' consist of that would please you yet not alienate the majority of the comunity?
Just on your little statement there is it that the game is not what you want in an MMO or an RPG, because those are two very different things and you haven't mentioned the lack of RP in your list unless that is what you meant about the world being a lie?
It is all very well to come on to forums, piss and moan about how the game does not meet your needs, but unless you relay those issues to the proper people with some constructive and meaningful alternatives it is all just hot air! Just playing until you are bored, moaning that it isn't what you want any more and closing your account in a strop isn't going to make the changes you want magically appear is it?
If you want to change a game you need to get involved with it's developers, take part in the testing so you can give the proper feedback, e-mail in your ideas with some details about how they would improve the game experience. Of course the majority of what anyone suggests will fall by the way side as Blizzard will have plans in place for a lot of stuff already and may see how some things fit a little differently, but if you don't get involved at all then you have no chance of influencing anything and really no right to complain!
Well for starters, how about a death penalty? No death penalty = fps. A death penalty could easily be implemented, but it's a soft MMO so it most likely won't happen.
I don't see how an actual war as advertised would "alienate" the community. Blizzard has alienated a lot of its pvp with their controled instances and grabass ctf games. Where's the war?
The developers do not care what people want. They want to optimize the game for banking. Not for pleasing the community. It's about keeping people addicted by tossing gear rewards in you have to grind for, not for having an enjoyable enviroment. When I realized this I left. When I realized the war wasn't happening outside of the minigames I realized what a joke WoW is.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
Originally posted by Malvolentia Well for starters, how about a death penalty? No death penalty = fps. A death penalty could easily be implemented, but it's a soft MMO so it most likely won't happen. I don't see how an actual war as advertised would "alienate" the community. Blizzard has alienated a lot of its pvp with their controled instances and grabass ctf games. Where's the war? The developers do not care what people want. They want to optimize the game for banking. Not for pleasing the community. It's about keeping people addicted by tossing gear rewards in you have to grind for, not for having an enjoyable enviroment. When I realized this I left. When I realized the war wasn't happening outside of the minigames I realized what a joke WoW is.
From a personal perspective, the only thing that a death penalty would do in this game is punish new players as you only tend to die a lot when you are just learning the game. If you are on your 2nd, 3rd, 10th toon it is very rare that you die in the normal course of play anyway, so i don;t see what it would add to the game, in fact the only people i can see it annoying would be the raiders & PvP'ers anyway???
True that there has never been a 'war' as such in the game, even though some attempts at showing one have been put in from time to time, but again we need to wait and see what they do with this new open PvP area because if that is done well it could restore the feeling of us and them again.
I am a little annoyed about your last statement as you contradict yourself, as in another thread you complain that 'carebears' have ruined the game with their moaning and forcing Blizzard to make the changed that they way, which would mean that Blizzard do actually listen to their players and you can't have it both ways?? Again i would ask if you have ever actually taken part in any testing and supplied feedback or sent any suggestions in to the devs at any point because unless you are telling them what you want then they don't really have a chance to even consider it do they??
As for having an enjoyable environment, any MMO is what you make it and you will only get out of it what you put in for the most part. I enjoy the social aspects of the game far more than anything else and the 'perfect build' or 'tier kit' is a secondary consideration at best for me, but again it really depends on your gameplay perspective.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I dont play WoW anymore. But coming from someone that does not play it anymore. Besides SWG a few months after launch WoW has been the best mmo period. SWG / Eve Online / WoW have been the three most original mmos that did not or bearly took any ideas from any other previous mmo and thats what made all three of them great. I have a feeling all the upcoming mmos are going to be blow outs. Warhammer looks like a WoW copy. AOC took to many ideas from wow and its filled with a bunch of 5 year olds that run around naked. Eve online is just to time consumeing for the average american.
Comments
WoW has two problems... its was released in 2004 with a graphics engine designed to accomidate everyone so by 2008 standards its looking dated and two, it came out in 2004 so the bulk of us have had our fill. Doesn't make anything that has come since better, just different and after years in WoW that's really all it takes. WoW is still the benchmark for what MMO quality and content should be though.
Reason why WoW sucks to experienced MMO veterans:
It's too easy, and mindnumbing.
Reason why WoW is awesome for everyone else:
It's too easy, and mindnumbing.
I left wow a fair while ago, because I just got plain bored tbh, however I wouldn't say I agree with much of what you have said personally...
1. Under the pvp old ranking system, sure you needed to spend damn near 24 hours in the bgs if you wanted to get the top gear and ranks. In the new system this is not nearly as bad, however I would say when the new system initially came in, there was a total gold rush for gear because in comparison to how hard it used to be to get it, it became childs play. By the time I left, this had calmed down a lot.
2. Arenas. I played pvp extensively before the ranking system but once that was removed pvp lost a lot of interest for me, not to mention being a kick in the balls for the countless hours I had spent in the bgs before the change... Anyway, can't say that the arenas held much attraction for me and I never set a virtual foot in a single one. Maybe a lot of people felt the same?
3. Well....obviously the world is not real....not sure what you mean by this.
4. I disagree with there being no crossover between pvp and pve. A top level raid armor set has always outstripped a top level pvp armor set. Generally the stats were always slightly improved but the MAJOR addition was the resistances, pvp gear never had resistances, I assume this is still the case. However I would say that for exactly the same reasons, a pvp armor set will not fair well in any but the most basic top level dungeons, so a pure pvper will struggle if they choose to switch to pve and raiding.
5. No mmorpg will never allow you to feel you have truly completed it. If this was the case, people would just complete it and move on cancelling their subscription. The creators would pretty much be shooting themselves in the foot.
No mmorpg has an infinite timespan for any player, in the end everyone will get bored and leave.
I also played WOW for 2 years and im so glad i left. The biggest issue is the Blizz feels the pressure and with that in the last year has made WOW so easy that 5 years olds can play and do play. Anyone who can say at level 70 they accomplished anything is a lie. I have raided with people that still dont understand there class, which is Sad at 70. Right now Blizz is doing there best to get everyone to 70 for the expansion. Problem with Blizz now a days is that its not about the game anymore. Its all about money. Which is sad.
Here's my big problem with ALL mmorpgs that are out of being released:
There's a general lack of consequence of action. Basically, everything you do in WoW is completely meaningless to anyone but you. Here's what I want, and I am well aware that it's rediculously difficult to implement; Meaningful PvP as well as meaningful PvE. Have my actions actually effect the game world and how it operates. I want to have quests that actually effect the state of the virtual world and provide my race/personal character with some sort of advantage. Have world PvP effect more than having a small combat or experience bonus.
Anyway, it may be a long way off, but it's something to shoot for. This is what sepparates good games from great games.
- Theguruofreason
Im not to sure if WAR is still using the idea, but last year when I looked into it they had a RvR system that was simular to what you are talking about. What people did in RvR at level 20 effected the other level groups as well. Like i said though I havent looked into if they kept the idea.
Can't be bothered to go through all the replies, so if i repeat anything then i am sorry, but my take on the above;
1 - Just pick up on the point you made there about "if you want to compete", well not everyone does, me for one. I rarely do BG's and have only ever done about 15 arena battles, not that i don't enjoy them, i just enjoy other aspects of the game.
2 - Again, arena's are not a 'major' focus of the game as far as i am concerned, so blizzard can do what they want with them.
3 - What does this even mean? It is a fantasy multiplayer game and no it doesn't have flight simulator photo realistic 3d terrain or top AI reponsive NPC's, but hey, it seems to have worked for most people.
4 - I personally use one set of gear for both PvP and PvE, but then again i just do it all for then fun of it, so win or lose it's all the same to me as long as i enjoy myself. I get through instances with a good degree of success and i can take most PvE targets on a 2-1 or 3-1 basis, so i am pretty happy
5 - What do you want exactly, an instance that when you complete it throws up a huge firework display and a banner reading "WELL DONE YOU HAVE COMPLETED WORLD OF WARCRAFT", please accept this major armour upgrade and wait for the next expansion release <exit to desktop>.
At the end of the day it is an MMO and it has to have elements within it to keep players coming back time and time again, no matter how annoying some of those elements may be. I have been playing since release and realised long ago that chasing the top kit all the time only leads to annoyance and frustration, so i decided to explore the social aspects of the game and have never been happier since. I now fill most of my time helping out guild mates and newbies and only dabble in those other things as and when the mood takes me.
Everything you have written there is from a personal point of view and to think that everyone feels the same way and will view the game in the same way as you is arrogant to say the least. Everyone will have their own take on the game and will love or hate different aspects depending on their play style, so i would say don't listen to me, the op or any other poster here just try it for yourself and make up your own mind.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
XD I laughed when OP said the world is lie. Geez please show me one that isn't XD
WoW is as fun as you make it, people on MMORPG seems to be aiming out the bad points all the time... If you just play WoW with your friends, and have some drinks with it, then it should be really fun
Just think about the good sides of the game. UI is almost compleatly controlled by Player. You can customize it as you like. Umm, You can master the BG's and make them your home, no fun if you have a new bg every day >:<
WoW does not suck. No other game is as good as WoW overall. (I read an argument the other day... "If you watch the other games closely you'll notice that they got atleast one quality that's better than WoW") Wtf?
WoW is quality, graphics seems to work for everyone. Classes are unique. Some simple to play, but hard to master. You got really many spells and skills that never turn useless. Skills you have throughout the game. There's alot to learn, and there's alot of space to become a better player. It's playable both for hardcore and casual. Why does it suck?
Followed up closely by "Reason why pointless replies happen."
By idiots that opened the thread knowing what's coming.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
McDonald's: over 1 billion burgers served
I would have said the one outside your door.
But, hell....technically its only as real as you are alive anyway. Even then, most of its foundation and its structure are all lies and propaganda anyway.
I love World of Warcraft because:
1. I just love the Bg's. I am Justicar with my Paladin and so had about 1500 flag scores in WSG, About 1000 AB runs and AV is in 25% in its new form a midfield battle for the towers with sometimes 30 against 30 battling it out (not longer PVE's who interfere).
The moment I hit exalted with the last flag score in WSG I had a feeling I never ever had in any game.
So being Justicar feels incredible and ever since then I am leveling my second character to Justicar. Imagine you can have EVERY DAY at least 10 AV fights with 40vs40 and never a frame drop. In Conan you need to wait for that 14 days to have one at 6 Frames per second.
I can't wait for WotLK and their siege systems and D-Day landing BG.
2. Arena is PURE adrenaline. We shout, we curse at each other through our micros and the tension is so high that mostly after 15 short fights we all hang in the corner to have oxigen.
)
Arena is the real sports of PvP. Too hard for 95% of the so called hardened world PvP guys who think that ganking a guy 3 to 1 is fun.
3. The world of Wow is like human nature: the demons and the bad within lead to war and corruption.
Read the books and see how your own heroes become corrupted and fall for the greed.
4. PVE or PVP? . I change exaclty 3(!) gears on my holy paladin and do arena, BG or Raids. In BG I have 495 resilience (highest), in Arena I have 353 (because I want my Holy shock) and in the Raids I have about 1950 healing buffed.
So in changing 3 gears I can have my roles: BG - Arena - Raids.
OP: Learn to play.
5. The BEST part of Wow is its end game these days. Certainly since patch 2.3. because with the intro of the daily quests in ALL aspects of the game (Heroics, BG's, Gathering professions, solo's), you end up fine tuning your character to a very high level the way YOU decide - no longer the need to follow raids per se).
Also by the VAST amount of choises of its end game you can even have a Paladin these days with FULL epics in Holy - Tank AND DPS. 3 complete different playing styles with just ONE character at the highest level. From healer to tank to pure DPS. All in epics.
And the respec costs is ... 4 daily quests of 30 minutes total.
Try this with another fantasy RPG.
And guess what ;I raid 1 time a week and hardly play 3 hours a day. But I am playing it 3 years yes.
OP: I bet you are just a leveler and don't know how to play past level 70.
But they STILL want to state worthless opnions.
1. You hit exalted and you had a great feeling. Way to go. When I first hit exalted Pre-BC and got the TUF. (my first equiped epic) I too felt great. But you know where I was going with it? It wasn't back into the AV I just spent 1000 hours. It was to the world to crush players where even tho minimal. There's an actual thrill and death penalty in running back to your body. Not the FPS respawn in BGs. Sadly they've built the game around BGs/Arenas so much, it became rare to fight outside of them. So here we have a great world the original designers put their hearts and souls into, going to complete waste.
2. Arenas got my heart thumping as well the first few times I played it. But let's break down arenas. It's widely accepted that
A. It's unbalanced and favors a few class combos
B. My Gear > Your gear.
C. Exploited beyond belief
D. Has no effect on the actual world. Lol I mean you're not even battling the opposing faction. It's a joke. You're playing a minigame inside of the game rather then battling in the world where you should be.
E. This is an MMO and you're fighting battles with 5on5. Strike as you kind of strange?
Lol at your "too hard for world PvP" guys. Arenas a predictable enviroment you're running classic strats of CC.
Chances are an "Arena pro" like yourself wouldn't know how to handle a world pvp encounter. You'd be saying..."mmm wait, hold on I didn't hear the door open hold up....oh my cooldowns aren't ready wait......
It's glorified dueling, not pvp. IMO
PvP is unpredictable and thrilling and has a penalty for dying. You'll hardly find that in your 1000th game of arenas/bgs
3. I'm probably a bigger fan of Blizzard's lore then you realize, but
A. Blood elves on horde
B. Spaceships
C. One of the coolest things, faction specific class, was taken out as Blizzard realized it couldn't balance the game.
It's pretty obvious to anyone who isn't a mindless fanboi drone that they kicked lore to the side for BC to help balance the game out.
4. I'm glad that time you have the time to acquire gear for arena, pve, tank, and blah blah blah. But I find it ridiculous you have to set aside gear for that many aspects. When I played Pre-BC I had 1 set that got to do everything for my characters. Healers set aside for this.
The point I'm making here is there was gear rewards on both sides PvE and PvP that you could use for pve and pvp, made every good loot pickup worth getting. Welcome to the world of resilience. You ain't pvping in that gear son. 1000 games of bgs for you.
5. I can only assume this is your first MMO if you think WoW's endgame is something to be praised. Not only is the crafting system clicking on nodes, there's no housing, hardly anyway to distinguish yourself from other players. Clones. There's no city being taken. There's no enviromental changes in the game. No guilds battling for control of Azeroth, no cities being built and so on and so forth.
Your endgame is daily quests, battlegrounds, sit in shatrath.
The game is ok to level in, but beyond that it's a shallow game. More of an FPS/grinder at where it's at now.
Don't worry about me "learning to play" I knew how to play, I just didn't want to anymore cause I knew where it was going.
The best of WoW is behind us.
Have fun in your 2100th game of Arathi Basin at level 80.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
McDonald's: over 1 billion burgers served
Ya I couldn't agree more.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
McDonald's: over 1 billion burgers served
I agree with this. Blizzard's games are always polished, good quality, superior UIs, and overall fun to play.
I just found WoW lacking in it's endgame and not what I wanted in an RPG game. It feels more like an fps with no risk and no rewards.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
McDonald's: over 1 billion burgers served
So what should it be? What should they be including? How should these changes be implemented to fit within the current framework? What should the 'endgame' consist of that would please you yet not alienate the majority of the comunity?
Just on your little statement there is it that the game is not what you want in an MMO or an RPG, because those are two very different things and you haven't mentioned the lack of RP in your list unless that is what you meant about the world being a lie?
It is all very well to come on to forums, piss and moan about how the game does not meet your needs, but unless you relay those issues to the proper people with some constructive and meaningful alternatives it is all just hot air! Just playing until you are bored, moaning that it isn't what you want any more and closing your account in a strop isn't going to make the changes you want magically appear is it?
If you want to change a game you need to get involved with it's developers, take part in the testing so you can give the proper feedback, e-mail in your ideas with some details about how they would improve the game experience. Of course the majority of what anyone suggests will fall by the way side as Blizzard will have plans in place for a lot of stuff already and may see how some things fit a little differently, but if you don't get involved at all then you have no chance of influencing anything and really no right to complain!
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I don't care about your list.
I still enjoy it. Have played alot of MMORPG's and I just found this one the most fun.
So please, why are you trolling man?
Because it is trolling. It game doens't suck, you only don't like it.
That's alot of difference.
Then again, I don't care about your list.
There is a point in doing something in any video game: to have fun. What kind of player are you? do you want just to be the best of the best? I personally like to have fun in games.
Well that's a problem most mmorpg developers don't tend to. I like in mmorpg's to feel like I'm a hero when I finish a task or get some new weapons/armor or kill some powerfull guy. However you rarely have a feeling like that in today's mmo's.
-Vladalf
HAHA, I love it when people complain about grinding, thats all you ever do in any game you will ever play, it's the nature of gaming. Dress it up however you wish, wrestle with the semantics on the word grinding all you wish but the act of playing is the essence of grinding.
When it comes down to it, enjoy a game or not. You have the right to your list and the well thought out points just as some have the right to refute your list with well thought out points.
I for one keep going back to WOW because I still have fun there, it's a world i enjoy, and aside from the given tools that blanket global chat with assinine comments, there are some actual good people who make the social aspect worthwhile.
If everyone on these boards spent as much time developing themselves to create games instead of just complaining/defending them then we might actually see some great games emerge in our lifetimes.
I do have to ask though, what do you mean by the "world is a lie" comment? I am just not smart enough to figure that one out.
_____________________________
If you are insulted by being called a fanboi it's a good bet that you are one
No matter what anyone says it has a high addiction factor and it's a good gateway into the MMO genre for new players. How many people who have never played an MMO know how important or useless "endgame" is? Huh? After playing WoW, they get an idea.
It's fun for a while it's certainly not the best but I'm comfortable saying it's the McDonald's of MMOs. Popular, decent in it's own right, has certain health risk factors if you're not careful (AHHH THE SUN IT BURNS! 8 hours raiding AGHHHH) but overall it's not half bad. Until you're bored of it.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
So what should it be? What should they be including? How should these changes be implemented to fit within the current framework? What should the 'endgame' consist of that would please you yet not alienate the majority of the comunity?
Just on your little statement there is it that the game is not what you want in an MMO or an RPG, because those are two very different things and you haven't mentioned the lack of RP in your list unless that is what you meant about the world being a lie?
It is all very well to come on to forums, piss and moan about how the game does not meet your needs, but unless you relay those issues to the proper people with some constructive and meaningful alternatives it is all just hot air! Just playing until you are bored, moaning that it isn't what you want any more and closing your account in a strop isn't going to make the changes you want magically appear is it?
If you want to change a game you need to get involved with it's developers, take part in the testing so you can give the proper feedback, e-mail in your ideas with some details about how they would improve the game experience. Of course the majority of what anyone suggests will fall by the way side as Blizzard will have plans in place for a lot of stuff already and may see how some things fit a little differently, but if you don't get involved at all then you have no chance of influencing anything and really no right to complain!
Well for starters, how about a death penalty? No death penalty = fps. A death penalty could easily be implemented, but it's a soft MMO so it most likely won't happen.
I don't see how an actual war as advertised would "alienate" the community. Blizzard has alienated a lot of its pvp with their controled instances and grabass ctf games. Where's the war?
The developers do not care what people want. They want to optimize the game for banking. Not for pleasing the community. It's about keeping people addicted by tossing gear rewards in you have to grind for, not for having an enjoyable enviroment. When I realized this I left. When I realized the war wasn't happening outside of the minigames I realized what a joke WoW is.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
McDonald's: over 1 billion burgers served
From a personal perspective, the only thing that a death penalty would do in this game is punish new players as you only tend to die a lot when you are just learning the game. If you are on your 2nd, 3rd, 10th toon it is very rare that you die in the normal course of play anyway, so i don;t see what it would add to the game, in fact the only people i can see it annoying would be the raiders & PvP'ers anyway???
True that there has never been a 'war' as such in the game, even though some attempts at showing one have been put in from time to time, but again we need to wait and see what they do with this new open PvP area because if that is done well it could restore the feeling of us and them again.
I am a little annoyed about your last statement as you contradict yourself, as in another thread you complain that 'carebears' have ruined the game with their moaning and forcing Blizzard to make the changed that they way, which would mean that Blizzard do actually listen to their players and you can't have it both ways?? Again i would ask if you have ever actually taken part in any testing and supplied feedback or sent any suggestions in to the devs at any point because unless you are telling them what you want then they don't really have a chance to even consider it do they??
As for having an enjoyable environment, any MMO is what you make it and you will only get out of it what you put in for the most part. I enjoy the social aspects of the game far more than anything else and the 'perfect build' or 'tier kit' is a secondary consideration at best for me, but again it really depends on your gameplay perspective.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I dont play WoW anymore. But coming from someone that does not play it anymore. Besides SWG a few months after launch WoW has been the best mmo period. SWG / Eve Online / WoW have been the three most original mmos that did not or bearly took any ideas from any other previous mmo and thats what made all three of them great. I have a feeling all the upcoming mmos are going to be blow outs. Warhammer looks like a WoW copy. AOC took to many ideas from wow and its filled with a bunch of 5 year olds that run around naked. Eve online is just to time consumeing for the average american.