It would have taken a LOT more development time and money to deliver a satisfying PvP experience of the sort requested by the OP. That is the only reason, and it is a perfectly acceptable one. It's not a PvP game, and was never intended to be.
Ahh finally a reason that makes some sense (that the lore doesnt support it I cant see at all).
I can buy that but still, would be fun to be a "slave to Saruman/Sauron" and fight the good races or even better to fight evil races who are actually real people rather than AI mobiles. I really dont see the challenge to fight a computer program that doesnt have the intelligence of a 10 year old.
What makes you think that the monster players in the game are AI? They are real people like you playing the monster in the moors. They are flesh and blood thinking humans like you ask to fight against. There is no AI running the monsters in the moors that you fight against. This makes your point and argument mute cause what you ask for is in the game. You just can't run around the open world and PVP. You can't lvl that monster from 1-50 but instead have to do quests and get destiny points to lvl up the monsters skills. Since the lvl 50 monster you roll starts out with lvl one skills.
Do a little research on the game before you make such wild accusations that the monster players in the game are all AI. It maybe fun to you to be a slave of sauron or saruman and to have no towns or villages and be limited to a small area of playable space to lvl up in but i am willing to bet though you say that now if they did this and limited you to the places in the books that the evil races are you would be here yelling about how unfair it is that the free people get access to the whole map and evil races are limited.
By the way alot of the pople who play MMO's and PVP are these low intelligent 10 year olds that you are talking about the AI being no smarter then.
What on earth are you talking about? I never said that the monsters players in Ettenmoors are AI, and its just one zone, I was talking about all the other zones.
As for the lore, I dont think the developers has to follow it as strictly as you think they have. Just because no towns with evil mobs were described in the books doesnt mean the devs can create one for this game. That is an assumption on your part. For example, those "evil" people from the south that rode those huge elephant creatures looked not like slaves of Saruman but rather a human race similar to that of Gondor. It would not be unlikely at all that they had cities and towns.
And I am not sure what you are saying with your last statement. Are you saying that alot of people playing AIs are not more intelligent than an AI? If you are then I dont know what to say to that except that we have very different views on how smart the AI is compared to how smart a human being is. AI are so far from matching us it is not even a contest...
It would have taken a LOT more development time and money to deliver a satisfying PvP experience of the sort requested by the OP. That is the only reason, and it is a perfectly acceptable one. It's not a PvP game, and was never intended to be.
Ahh finally a reason that makes some sense (that the lore doesnt support it I cant see at all).
I can buy that but still, would be fun to be a "slave to Saruman/Sauron" and fight the good races or even better to fight evil races who are actually real people rather than AI mobiles. I really dont see the challenge to fight a computer program that doesnt have the intelligence of a 10 year old.
What makes you think that the monster players in the game are AI? They are real people like you playing the monster in the moors. They are flesh and blood thinking humans like you ask to fight against. There is no AI running the monsters in the moors that you fight against. This makes your point and argument mute cause what you ask for is in the game. You just can't run around the open world and PVP. You can't lvl that monster from 1-50 but instead have to do quests and get destiny points to lvl up the monsters skills. Since the lvl 50 monster you roll starts out with lvl one skills.
Do a little research on the game before you make such wild accusations that the monster players in the game are all AI. It maybe fun to you to be a slave of sauron or saruman and to have no towns or villages and be limited to a small area of playable space to lvl up in but i am willing to bet though you say that now if they did this and limited you to the places in the books that the evil races are you would be here yelling about how unfair it is that the free people get access to the whole map and evil races are limited.
By the way alot of the pople who play MMO's and PVP are these low intelligent 10 year olds that you are talking about the AI being no smarter then.
What on earth are you talking about? I never said that the monsters players in Ettenmoors are AI, and its just one zone, I was talking about all the other zones.
As for the lore, I dont think the developers has to follow it as strictly as you think they have. Just because no towns with evil mobs were described in the books doesnt mean the devs can create one for this game. That is an assumption on your part. For example, those "evil" people from the south that rode those huge elephant creatures looked not like slaves of Saruman but rather a human race similar to that of Gondor. It would not be unlikely at all that they had cities and towns.
No...what is fact is that they cannot do anything that is not approved by Tolkien Enterprises. So it is not ultimately up to Turbine but TE.
And I am not sure what you are saying with your last statement. Are you saying that alot of people playing AIs are not more intelligent than an AI? If you are then I dont know what to say to that except that we have very different views on how smart the AI is compared to how smart a human being is. AI are so far from matching us it is not even a contest...
****************************** Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
It would have taken a LOT more development time and money to deliver a satisfying PvP experience of the sort requested by the OP. That is the only reason, and it is a perfectly acceptable one. It's not a PvP game, and was never intended to be.
Ahh finally a reason that makes some sense (that the lore doesnt support it I cant see at all).
I can buy that but still, would be fun to be a "slave to Saruman/Sauron" and fight the good races or even better to fight evil races who are actually real people rather than AI mobiles. I really dont see the challenge to fight a computer program that doesnt have the intelligence of a 10 year old.
What makes you think that the monster players in the game are AI? They are real people like you playing the monster in the moors. They are flesh and blood thinking humans like you ask to fight against. There is no AI running the monsters in the moors that you fight against. This makes your point and argument mute cause what you ask for is in the game. You just can't run around the open world and PVP. You can't lvl that monster from 1-50 but instead have to do quests and get destiny points to lvl up the monsters skills. Since the lvl 50 monster you roll starts out with lvl one skills.
Do a little research on the game before you make such wild accusations that the monster players in the game are all AI. It maybe fun to you to be a slave of sauron or saruman and to have no towns or villages and be limited to a small area of playable space to lvl up in but i am willing to bet though you say that now if they did this and limited you to the places in the books that the evil races are you would be here yelling about how unfair it is that the free people get access to the whole map and evil races are limited.
By the way alot of the pople who play MMO's and PVP are these low intelligent 10 year olds that you are talking about the AI being no smarter then.
What on earth are you talking about? I never said that the monsters players in Ettenmoors are AI, and its just one zone, I was talking about all the other zones.
As for the lore, I dont think the developers has to follow it as strictly as you think they have. Just because no towns with evil mobs were described in the books doesnt mean the devs can create one for this game. That is an assumption on your part. For example, those "evil" people from the south that rode those huge elephant creatures looked not like slaves of Saruman but rather a human race similar to that of Gondor. It would not be unlikely at all that they had cities and towns.
And I am not sure what you are saying with your last statement. Are you saying that alot of people playing AIs are not more intelligent than an AI? If you are then I dont know what to say to that except that we have very different views on how smart the AI is compared to how smart a human being is. AI are so far from matching us it is not even a contest...
LOL dude your the one who stated you wanted to fight evil races that weren't AI mobiles.The mobs we fight in the game are not evil races other than the orcs, trolls,wargs and those who serve sauron. there are alot of mobs that wouldn't be classified as evil that we fight. So when you made that statement i naturally drew the conclusion you ment the evil races in the moors cause they are the only ones in the game that are player controlled. No game allows PVE mobs to be player controlled. If you were not talking about the ettenmoors then you should be clear about that when you stated that. That my friend was your fault for not being clear and leaving it open for people to inturpet what you ment. And yes just because there are no mention of towns and such for evil races does meen that under the license agreement turbine can't just whip up anything they want to make evil races playable. Sure the southeners had towns and such but they are not described in the books and we are in eriador along way from the southeners hometowns.
The last statement i will admit was a gab at you and your statement about how AI isn't any smarter than a 10 year old. Wich i found funny cause alot of 10 year olds play these games and from what you said the ten year olds must be pretty dumb then if they are barely smarter than the AI in these games. Do you understand now?
Try to turn what i say around on me i don't mind i am getting a good laugh out of this thread and how you seem to skirt around the obvious and that is turbine is under a license agreement that calls for them to stick to the lore of the books. They can't create or expand on anything that isn't mentioned in the books in some way. If it is mentioned in the books they can then use other writings as source material to further flesh out places like the north downs, forchel, ered luin and others that were not visited in the books but mentioned in passing.
The definition of PvP is player vs player last time I looked it up. In other words one player playing his character against another player controlled character rather than a computer controlled NPC. It does not matter if the other player is playing his spider or warg or orc or minstrel or hunter the challenge of playing against a live person is still the same. Therefor the statement that LoTRO has no PvP is false.
You want ganking, unbalanced classes, exploits and constant nerfs feel free to go play AoC. It has plenty of those to go around.
I miss DAoC
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Jackdog
The definition of PvP is player vs player last time I looked it up. In other words one player playing his character against another player controlled character rather than a computer controlled NPC. It does not matter if the other player is playing his spider or warg or orc or minstrel or hunter the challenge of playing against a live person is still the same. Therefor the statement that LoTRO has no PvP is false. You want ganking, unbalanced classes, exploits and constant nerfs feel free to go play AoC. It has plenty of those to go around.
Something about this post screams scared of PvP
The OP asked "Real" PvP, you know with consequences...
Lotro fails for me there. PvE can be fun at times but PvP as in Player Vs Player is a joke for me, its not even fun.
The definition of PvP is player vs player last time I looked it up. In other words one player playing his character against another player controlled character rather than a computer controlled NPC. It does not matter if the other player is playing his spider or warg or orc or minstrel or hunter the challenge of playing against a live person is still the same. Therefor the statement that LoTRO has no PvP is false. You want ganking, unbalanced classes, exploits and constant nerfs feel free to go play AoC. It has plenty of those to go around.
Something about this post screams scared of PvP
The OP asked "Real" PvP, you know with consequences...
Lotro fails for me there. PvE can be fun at times but PvP as in Player Vs Player is a joke for me, its not even fun.
It's plenty fun for me...
and it works too!
_________________________________ JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
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"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by solareus
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Originally posted by Jackdog
The definition of PvP is player vs player last time I looked it up. In other words one player playing his character against another player controlled character rather than a computer controlled NPC. It does not matter if the other player is playing his spider or warg or orc or minstrel or hunter the challenge of playing against a live person is still the same. Therefor the statement that LoTRO has no PvP is false. You want ganking, unbalanced classes, exploits and constant nerfs feel free to go play AoC. It has plenty of those to go around.
Something about this post screams scared of PvP
The OP asked "Real" PvP, you know with consequences...
Lotro fails for me there. PvE can be fun at times but PvP as in Player Vs Player is a joke for me, its not even fun.
LOL so you play Shadowbane now ? I knew aoC was weak GvP (gank vs player) Hope you have a good time in Shadowbane Avery , it is a great PVP game.
I think LotRO Monster Play is a lot more dynamic then people think. You aren't just going into the moors as a freep to pvp , there is some serious loot to get from quests, and having human players inside the monsters really makes completing those quest a lot more difficult. No other game has this kind of dynamic interaction between player vs player. You either get it, or you don't . A lot, A lot of people get it and enjoy it, creating rivalries and just all around epic battles between good vs evil. This is just the beginning lol, I bet you that Mordor will be the biggest MPVP arena ever constructed by man lol ....
Actually I played Shadowbane for nearly a year and left about 11 months ago,have been subbed to Lotro since launch, VG too, As well as AoC of course more recently. I don't find AoC's GvG weak at all, I bet 97% of people that complain about AoC's pvp have not tried Sieges yet.
Regardless, Monster Play is a let down for me, yes loot can be good from quests, and the concept is alright, but it just doesnt pull it off for me. Thats all I am saying. Mordor could swing it back for me to give it a concerted effort again, but at this point in time only reason I am still subbed is because I havent done all PvE aspects yet.
LOL so you play Shadowbane now ? I knew aoC was weak GvP (gank vs player) Hope you have a good time in Shadowbane Avery , it is a great PVP game. I think LotRO Monster Play is a lot more dynamic then people think. You aren't just going into the moors as a freep to pvp , there is some serious loot to get from quests, and having human players inside the monsters really makes completing those quest a lot more difficult. No other game has this kind of dynamic interaction between player vs player. You either get it, or you don't . A lot, A lot of people get it and enjoy it, creating rivalries and just all around epic battles between good vs evil. This is just the beginning lol, I bet you that Mordor will be the biggest MPVP arena ever constructed by man lol ....
I don't think too many people even know LOTRO has PvP... this game has so many possiblities, it really could end up being an incredible PvP game after the next few expansions. (it already is awesome right now, with full faction/class pvp loot) Once there is pvp-mvp over multiple zones is when things are gonna get really crazy.
They will probably never have normal players (not your monster character) be able to PvP against eachother, but who knows? Maybe they will give players the option to turn to the shadow of Mordor somewhere down the line. I'm pretty excited to see what happens.
Some people want to see this game be just like Warhammer Online set in Middle Earth, but this just isn't the IP for that. Maybe down the road there will be room for some expanded PVP that has a lot of the types of things you see in WAR and AOC's PVP, but to make LOTRO like that at the start would have required HUGE sacrifices to the quality of LOTRO and it's long term viability.
The first problem is that a main PVE game for the evil side just wouldn't work in LOTRO. Unlike games like WOW, the good and evil side can't share the same PVE instances and raids. The PVE differences between horde and alliance are quite small, but in LOTRO they have to be completely separate. Sauron and the free people don't have common enemies. Evil is evil, and good is good. To serve both sides equally, you'd have to put in twice the amount of content as you would if you stuck with the good side only for PVE.
Somewhat tied to that issue is the question of zones. By following the path of the fellowship through middle earht (for the most part), Turbine is able to get a good pacing for the development of the game. To make a realm vs realm game, they would have had to screw that pace all up in addition to starting out with 3 or 4 times the land mass that the game shipped with. So you'd have a bunch more land, but less detailed and generally lower quality areas. And if they started out doing Mordor, Gondor, and all those areas where the war mainly took place, then what would we have to look forward to down the line? It's like starting a book by reading the final chapter... it's not satisfying.
Turbine has done a lot of things brilliantly with this game, including their unique PVP system. PVMP allows for faction based PVP in epic settings without making sacrifices to the PVE game. The basic PVMP system can easily be built upon as the game expands into areas that are more condusive to realm vs realm type of content. Plus there are some other nifty things about PVMP. It allows players to jump into the PVP very early on since you only have to be level 10 to start making monster characters. So my friends that try the game after i've already been playing for a year can almost instantly jump into the PVP action with me. I can also try multiple pvp classes without having to do a huge PVE grind investment. I also like the fact that you can play both sides. I'm looking forward to Warhammer, but it sucks because the classes I want to play are all Order, but my friends all want to be Destruction. So I'm boned. That's no problem in LOTRO. Plus it's fun to play against people that you know.
Besides, even if turbine had done what a lot of you are asking for and tried to make this more about PVP, 99% of you would be jumping ship to Warhammer Online anyway because I garuntee you that they would have done a much better job at it. Mythic's specialty is RVR. Turbine's is doing episodic story based MMO content.
~~~ Currently Playing ~~~ LOTRO- Guardian Wrymstrum & Lore-master Stabler on Nimrodel.
Conan- Zoltar <Angels of Death> Guardian on Stormrage.
Wow just tried monster play for the first time last night and i mean really tried it joined a huge raid drove the freeps from TR and then hunted down the remaining 2 freep raids with the help of a warg pack ambushing them after we were almost to be wiped. I didn't even try the quests or instances or anything else just got my rank up to 2 in one night and have a new goal of becoming the first tyrant in the game. for all of you putting MpvP down i started at around 7 pm and played well through the night untill finally noticing it to be 3 am and i had work in the morning so i finished quickly ( 2 more hours haha) and just had a blast the hole time can't wait to see what turbine will add on to this im guessing a knew area for it across the misties ( or under em)
This game needs more pvp area like moors and some intance pvp.
They are adding a new PvMP area with the expansion and i would bet they will a new one with every expansion. that would be once a year. So eventually there will be alot more PvMP areas
This game needs more pvp area like moors and some intance pvp.
They are adding a new PvMP area with the expansion and i would bet they will a new one with every expansion. that would be once a year. So eventually there will be alot more PvMP areas
This game needs more pvp area like moors and some intance pvp.
They are adding a new PvMP area with the expansion and i would bet they will a new one with every expansion. that would be once a year. So eventually there will be alot more PvMP areas
Its been confirmed by the devs. There is no new pvmp area in the MOM expansion.
Just tweaks to the existing ettenmoors and vague references to possibly a new pvmp area some time well beyond the MoM expansion.
All us full time creeps just saved cash. Theres no need to buy the expansion unless you have to for the creep autolevel. If thats the case I can wait till MoM's in the discount bin.
Its been confirmed by the devs. There is no new pvmp area in the MOM expansion. Just tweaks to the existing ettenmoors and vague references to possibly a new pvmp area some time well beyond the MoM expansion. All us full time creeps just saved cash. Theres no need to buy the expansion unless you have to for the creep autolevel. If thats the case I can wait till MoM's in the discount bin. edit add link. http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=151423
Maybe you should wait and see what thoose changes are... a new PvMP area would only spread out the population and make the PvP worse... some kind of isntance would be nice thou (something like ED but different)
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
the pvmp zone might be a bit different from what we know now, they might make a system where an ingame announcemetn that say that sauron's force are attacking in XXX zone, all the people in the other zone have 10 mins to leave it before they get zoned (unless inside a dungeon).
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
Its been confirmed by the devs. There is no new pvmp area in the MOM expansion. Just tweaks to the existing ettenmoors and vague references to possibly a new pvmp area some time well beyond the MoM expansion. All us full time creeps just saved cash. Theres no need to buy the expansion unless you have to for the creep autolevel. If thats the case I can wait till MoM's in the discount bin. edit add link. http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=151423
Ouch. That really sucks. Maybe they'll do something like they did with Delving of Fror, and add another instance within Ettenmoors.
I'm wondering why someone play LotRO as a full time creep though. You're really missing out on the rest of the game.
LOTRO is a good MMORPG. There are two things that would have given the game a real winner status... 1. GOOD vs EVIL played by players. It would be so much more. 2. While the animation is adequate, it could be bettered. I am NOT talking of the graphics, purely the action in the fights. Point 1 is a real shame, because LOTRO has even better animated fights than Warhammer. Warhammer is pure lame in speed and hectic fights, therefore it will fail with the hard core PvP players. LOTRO made a mistake ...with having only the good side to play. Pity .....
Actually.. LotrO is one of few MMOs that really let you play the Evil side (for example WoW doesnt)
You can choose between Warg, giant spider, 2 kinds of Uruks, 2 kinds of Orcs.. And then PvP against the good guys in Ettenmoors... and you gain new skills/traits by doing PvP
Yea some of the animations sucks (Jumping!!!) but they change some of them every patch...
So I guess that means that LotrO is a winner
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
The problem with making a pve evil side in lotro have already been mentionned, to keep it short. In lotr most evil races just follow the orders of a being vastly mroe powerful than them ( saruman, sauron) and the other like goblin ( not much more than bugs) or wights have goals and mental state that are not described in the lore.
Having an evil side would mean that mordor would have needed to be implemented, as well as the lands to the south which is what turbine probably consider as uber ultra end game content.
Pvmp might become more complicated as the expasions come out, we might see a big pvmp zones with book quests in gondor, but considering how so many of lotro's players ar happy with minor pvp this will stay liek it is for some time.
I do agree that more stuff should be available to creeps, like weapons and shields. And maybe fur paint for wargs and somehing similar for spiders. another special session char for creep side might be great too, a orc general on a warg like in return of the kind would be sweet, but that might come with the arrival of rohan (horseback fighting for sure).
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
The definition of PvP is player vs player last time I looked it up. In other words one player playing his character against another player controlled character rather than a computer controlled NPC. It does not matter if the other player is playing his spider or warg or orc or minstrel or hunter the challenge of playing against a live person is still the same. Therefor the statement that LoTRO has no PvP is false. You want ganking, unbalanced classes, exploits and constant nerfs feel free to go play AoC. It has plenty of those to go around.
Something about this post screams scared of PvP
The OP asked "Real" PvP, you know with consequences...
Lotro fails for me there. PvE can be fun at times but PvP as in Player Vs Player is a joke for me, its not even fun.
LOL so you play Shadowbane now ? I knew aoC was weak GvP (gank vs player) Hope you have a good time in Shadowbane Avery , it is a great PVP game.
I think LotRO Monster Play is a lot more dynamic then people think. You aren't just going into the moors as a freep to pvp , there is some serious loot to get from quests, and having human players inside the monsters really makes completing those quest a lot more difficult. No other game has this kind of dynamic interaction between player vs player. You either get it, or you don't . A lot, A lot of people get it and enjoy it, creating rivalries and just all around epic battles between good vs evil. This is just the beginning lol, I bet you that Mordor will be the biggest MPVP arena ever constructed by man lol ....
Actually I played Shadowbane for nearly a year and left about 11 months ago,have been subbed to Lotro since launch, VG too, As well as AoC of course more recently. I don't find AoC's GvG weak at all, I bet 97% of people that complain about AoC's pvp have not tried Sieges yet.
Regardless, Monster Play is a let down for me, yes loot can be good from quests, and the concept is alright, but it just doesnt pull it off for me. Thats all I am saying. Mordor could swing it back for me to give it a concerted effort again, but at this point in time only reason I am still subbed is because I havent done all PvE aspects yet.
Yo Avery
I finally agreed with a lot of what you said (in this thread), but reading about AoC made me chuckle. Sieges are still broken everybody says and this is two months after launch. AoC still hasn't delivered basic things like blood coins, consequences for pvp, fully working sieges, border kingdoms - where are the towers and ressource control points? Mercenaries? Funcom hasn't delivered the brutal pvp game they promised!! Etc etc..
I honestly would rather pick up Lotro (never tried it) than AoC again (played tech, general beta, open beta, early access and most of my free month)..
That said, I too am very dissappointed with this game.
It is so sad to see SOE sunk the Star Wars IP, Funcom sank Conan and Turbine has sunken both DDO (couldnt stomach it) and Lotro (no pvp).
To the OP:
You won't find many that agree with you here. This game is heavily besieged by the PVE crowd and it is too late now for Turbine to turn it around.
Monster Play is not a chance to develop and grow a character from scratch. And it is not real open pvp.
Personally I can't pick up an mmo without pvp. And I think a good IP like this deserve a real pvp game. Not just some hold your hand storylines for the carebears.
This IP screams realm versus realm warfare.
One can only hope one day they will evolve it and make some pvp servers, but I doubt they will do it now when they have a strong pve fanbase. Too sad it should happen to Tolkien's IP of all things.
I play LoTRO as it is, because it's a solid MMO, with a great story, great PVE and BEAUTIFUL graphics and art. This is a time filler for me, I just cancelled my SOE all access account and AoC, and WoW a while back. So I'm playing LoTRO until I get bored or until something better comes out.
What I would have loved to see would have been the choice to play the army of Sauron. Roll an Urak-hai (sp) and go smash some filthy hobbitses...
Comments
Ahh finally a reason that makes some sense (that the lore doesnt support it I cant see at all).
I can buy that but still, would be fun to be a "slave to Saruman/Sauron" and fight the good races or even better to fight evil races who are actually real people rather than AI mobiles. I really dont see the challenge to fight a computer program that doesnt have the intelligence of a 10 year old.
What makes you think that the monster players in the game are AI? They are real people like you playing the monster in the moors. They are flesh and blood thinking humans like you ask to fight against. There is no AI running the monsters in the moors that you fight against. This makes your point and argument mute cause what you ask for is in the game. You just can't run around the open world and PVP. You can't lvl that monster from 1-50 but instead have to do quests and get destiny points to lvl up the monsters skills. Since the lvl 50 monster you roll starts out with lvl one skills.
Do a little research on the game before you make such wild accusations that the monster players in the game are all AI. It maybe fun to you to be a slave of sauron or saruman and to have no towns or villages and be limited to a small area of playable space to lvl up in but i am willing to bet though you say that now if they did this and limited you to the places in the books that the evil races are you would be here yelling about how unfair it is that the free people get access to the whole map and evil races are limited.
By the way alot of the pople who play MMO's and PVP are these low intelligent 10 year olds that you are talking about the AI being no smarter then.
What on earth are you talking about? I never said that the monsters players in Ettenmoors are AI, and its just one zone, I was talking about all the other zones.
As for the lore, I dont think the developers has to follow it as strictly as you think they have. Just because no towns with evil mobs were described in the books doesnt mean the devs can create one for this game. That is an assumption on your part. For example, those "evil" people from the south that rode those huge elephant creatures looked not like slaves of Saruman but rather a human race similar to that of Gondor. It would not be unlikely at all that they had cities and towns.
And I am not sure what you are saying with your last statement. Are you saying that alot of people playing AIs are not more intelligent than an AI? If you are then I dont know what to say to that except that we have very different views on how smart the AI is compared to how smart a human being is. AI are so far from matching us it is not even a contest...
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Ahh finally a reason that makes some sense (that the lore doesnt support it I cant see at all).
I can buy that but still, would be fun to be a "slave to Saruman/Sauron" and fight the good races or even better to fight evil races who are actually real people rather than AI mobiles. I really dont see the challenge to fight a computer program that doesnt have the intelligence of a 10 year old.
What makes you think that the monster players in the game are AI? They are real people like you playing the monster in the moors. They are flesh and blood thinking humans like you ask to fight against. There is no AI running the monsters in the moors that you fight against. This makes your point and argument mute cause what you ask for is in the game. You just can't run around the open world and PVP. You can't lvl that monster from 1-50 but instead have to do quests and get destiny points to lvl up the monsters skills. Since the lvl 50 monster you roll starts out with lvl one skills.
Do a little research on the game before you make such wild accusations that the monster players in the game are all AI. It maybe fun to you to be a slave of sauron or saruman and to have no towns or villages and be limited to a small area of playable space to lvl up in but i am willing to bet though you say that now if they did this and limited you to the places in the books that the evil races are you would be here yelling about how unfair it is that the free people get access to the whole map and evil races are limited.
By the way alot of the pople who play MMO's and PVP are these low intelligent 10 year olds that you are talking about the AI being no smarter then.
What on earth are you talking about? I never said that the monsters players in Ettenmoors are AI, and its just one zone, I was talking about all the other zones.
As for the lore, I dont think the developers has to follow it as strictly as you think they have. Just because no towns with evil mobs were described in the books doesnt mean the devs can create one for this game. That is an assumption on your part. For example, those "evil" people from the south that rode those huge elephant creatures looked not like slaves of Saruman but rather a human race similar to that of Gondor. It would not be unlikely at all that they had cities and towns.
No...what is fact is that they cannot do anything that is not approved by Tolkien Enterprises. So it is not ultimately up to Turbine but TE.
And I am not sure what you are saying with your last statement. Are you saying that alot of people playing AIs are not more intelligent than an AI? If you are then I dont know what to say to that except that we have very different views on how smart the AI is compared to how smart a human being is. AI are so far from matching us it is not even a contest...
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Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
Ahh finally a reason that makes some sense (that the lore doesnt support it I cant see at all).
I can buy that but still, would be fun to be a "slave to Saruman/Sauron" and fight the good races or even better to fight evil races who are actually real people rather than AI mobiles. I really dont see the challenge to fight a computer program that doesnt have the intelligence of a 10 year old.
What makes you think that the monster players in the game are AI? They are real people like you playing the monster in the moors. They are flesh and blood thinking humans like you ask to fight against. There is no AI running the monsters in the moors that you fight against. This makes your point and argument mute cause what you ask for is in the game. You just can't run around the open world and PVP. You can't lvl that monster from 1-50 but instead have to do quests and get destiny points to lvl up the monsters skills. Since the lvl 50 monster you roll starts out with lvl one skills.
Do a little research on the game before you make such wild accusations that the monster players in the game are all AI. It maybe fun to you to be a slave of sauron or saruman and to have no towns or villages and be limited to a small area of playable space to lvl up in but i am willing to bet though you say that now if they did this and limited you to the places in the books that the evil races are you would be here yelling about how unfair it is that the free people get access to the whole map and evil races are limited.
By the way alot of the pople who play MMO's and PVP are these low intelligent 10 year olds that you are talking about the AI being no smarter then.
What on earth are you talking about? I never said that the monsters players in Ettenmoors are AI, and its just one zone, I was talking about all the other zones.
As for the lore, I dont think the developers has to follow it as strictly as you think they have. Just because no towns with evil mobs were described in the books doesnt mean the devs can create one for this game. That is an assumption on your part. For example, those "evil" people from the south that rode those huge elephant creatures looked not like slaves of Saruman but rather a human race similar to that of Gondor. It would not be unlikely at all that they had cities and towns.
And I am not sure what you are saying with your last statement. Are you saying that alot of people playing AIs are not more intelligent than an AI? If you are then I dont know what to say to that except that we have very different views on how smart the AI is compared to how smart a human being is. AI are so far from matching us it is not even a contest...
LOL dude your the one who stated you wanted to fight evil races that weren't AI mobiles.The mobs we fight in the game are not evil races other than the orcs, trolls,wargs and those who serve sauron. there are alot of mobs that wouldn't be classified as evil that we fight. So when you made that statement i naturally drew the conclusion you ment the evil races in the moors cause they are the only ones in the game that are player controlled. No game allows PVE mobs to be player controlled. If you were not talking about the ettenmoors then you should be clear about that when you stated that. That my friend was your fault for not being clear and leaving it open for people to inturpet what you ment. And yes just because there are no mention of towns and such for evil races does meen that under the license agreement turbine can't just whip up anything they want to make evil races playable. Sure the southeners had towns and such but they are not described in the books and we are in eriador along way from the southeners hometowns.
The last statement i will admit was a gab at you and your statement about how AI isn't any smarter than a 10 year old. Wich i found funny cause alot of 10 year olds play these games and from what you said the ten year olds must be pretty dumb then if they are barely smarter than the AI in these games. Do you understand now?
Try to turn what i say around on me i don't mind i am getting a good laugh out of this thread and how you seem to skirt around the obvious and that is turbine is under a license agreement that calls for them to stick to the lore of the books. They can't create or expand on anything that isn't mentioned in the books in some way. If it is mentioned in the books they can then use other writings as source material to further flesh out places like the north downs, forchel, ered luin and others that were not visited in the books but mentioned in passing.
The definition of PvP is player vs player last time I looked it up. In other words one player playing his character against another player controlled character rather than a computer controlled NPC. It does not matter if the other player is playing his spider or warg or orc or minstrel or hunter the challenge of playing against a live person is still the same. Therefor the statement that LoTRO has no PvP is false.
You want ganking, unbalanced classes, exploits and constant nerfs feel free to go play AoC. It has plenty of those to go around.
I miss DAoC
Something about this post screams scared of PvP
The OP asked "Real" PvP, you know with consequences...
Lotro fails for me there. PvE can be fun at times but PvP as in Player Vs Player is a joke for me, its not even fun.
Something about this post screams scared of PvP
The OP asked "Real" PvP, you know with consequences...
Lotro fails for me there. PvE can be fun at times but PvP as in Player Vs Player is a joke for me, its not even fun.
It's plenty fun for me...
and it works too!
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JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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Something about this post screams scared of PvP
The OP asked "Real" PvP, you know with consequences...
Lotro fails for me there. PvE can be fun at times but PvP as in Player Vs Player is a joke for me, its not even fun.
LOL so you play Shadowbane now ? I knew aoC was weak GvP (gank vs player) Hope you have a good time in Shadowbane Avery , it is a great PVP game.
I think LotRO Monster Play is a lot more dynamic then people think. You aren't just going into the moors as a freep to pvp , there is some serious loot to get from quests, and having human players inside the monsters really makes completing those quest a lot more difficult. No other game has this kind of dynamic interaction between player vs player. You either get it, or you don't . A lot, A lot of people get it and enjoy it, creating rivalries and just all around epic battles between good vs evil. This is just the beginning lol, I bet you that Mordor will be the biggest MPVP arena ever constructed by man lol ....
Actually I played Shadowbane for nearly a year and left about 11 months ago,have been subbed to Lotro since launch, VG too, As well as AoC of course more recently. I don't find AoC's GvG weak at all, I bet 97% of people that complain about AoC's pvp have not tried Sieges yet.
Regardless, Monster Play is a let down for me, yes loot can be good from quests, and the concept is alright, but it just doesnt pull it off for me. Thats all I am saying. Mordor could swing it back for me to give it a concerted effort again, but at this point in time only reason I am still subbed is because I havent done all PvE aspects yet.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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I don't think too many people even know LOTRO has PvP... this game has so many possiblities, it really could end up being an incredible PvP game after the next few expansions. (it already is awesome right now, with full faction/class pvp loot) Once there is pvp-mvp over multiple zones is when things are gonna get really crazy.
They will probably never have normal players (not your monster character) be able to PvP against eachother, but who knows? Maybe they will give players the option to turn to the shadow of Mordor somewhere down the line. I'm pretty excited to see what happens.
This again?
Some people want to see this game be just like Warhammer Online set in Middle Earth, but this just isn't the IP for that. Maybe down the road there will be room for some expanded PVP that has a lot of the types of things you see in WAR and AOC's PVP, but to make LOTRO like that at the start would have required HUGE sacrifices to the quality of LOTRO and it's long term viability.
The first problem is that a main PVE game for the evil side just wouldn't work in LOTRO. Unlike games like WOW, the good and evil side can't share the same PVE instances and raids. The PVE differences between horde and alliance are quite small, but in LOTRO they have to be completely separate. Sauron and the free people don't have common enemies. Evil is evil, and good is good. To serve both sides equally, you'd have to put in twice the amount of content as you would if you stuck with the good side only for PVE.
Somewhat tied to that issue is the question of zones. By following the path of the fellowship through middle earht (for the most part), Turbine is able to get a good pacing for the development of the game. To make a realm vs realm game, they would have had to screw that pace all up in addition to starting out with 3 or 4 times the land mass that the game shipped with. So you'd have a bunch more land, but less detailed and generally lower quality areas. And if they started out doing Mordor, Gondor, and all those areas where the war mainly took place, then what would we have to look forward to down the line? It's like starting a book by reading the final chapter... it's not satisfying.
Turbine has done a lot of things brilliantly with this game, including their unique PVP system. PVMP allows for faction based PVP in epic settings without making sacrifices to the PVE game. The basic PVMP system can easily be built upon as the game expands into areas that are more condusive to realm vs realm type of content. Plus there are some other nifty things about PVMP. It allows players to jump into the PVP very early on since you only have to be level 10 to start making monster characters. So my friends that try the game after i've already been playing for a year can almost instantly jump into the PVP action with me. I can also try multiple pvp classes without having to do a huge PVE grind investment. I also like the fact that you can play both sides. I'm looking forward to Warhammer, but it sucks because the classes I want to play are all Order, but my friends all want to be Destruction. So I'm boned. That's no problem in LOTRO. Plus it's fun to play against people that you know.
Besides, even if turbine had done what a lot of you are asking for and tried to make this more about PVP, 99% of you would be jumping ship to Warhammer Online anyway because I garuntee you that they would have done a much better job at it. Mythic's specialty is RVR. Turbine's is doing episodic story based MMO content.
~~~ Currently Playing ~~~
LOTRO- Guardian Wrymstrum & Lore-master Stabler on Nimrodel.
Conan- Zoltar <Angels of Death> Guardian on Stormrage.
Wow just tried monster play for the first time last night and i mean really tried it joined a huge raid drove the freeps from TR and then hunted down the remaining 2 freep raids with the help of a warg pack ambushing them after we were almost to be wiped. I didn't even try the quests or instances or anything else just got my rank up to 2 in one night and have a new goal of becoming the first tyrant in the game. for all of you putting MpvP down i started at around 7 pm and played well through the night untill finally noticing it to be 3 am and i had work in the morning so i finished quickly ( 2 more hours haha) and just had a blast the hole time can't wait to see what turbine will add on to this im guessing a knew area for it across the misties ( or under em)
This game needs more pvp area like moors and some intance pvp.
They are adding a new PvMP area with the expansion and i would bet they will a new one with every expansion. that would be once a year. So eventually there will be alot more PvMP areas
They are adding a new PvMP area with the expansion and i would bet they will a new one with every expansion. that would be once a year. So eventually there will be alot more PvMP areas
I think they said no new PVP area. You mean this expansion? http://forums.lotro.com/showpost.php?p=2032866&postcount=23
They are adding a new PvMP area with the expansion and i would bet they will a new one with every expansion. that would be once a year. So eventually there will be alot more PvMP areas
I think they said no new PVP area. You mean this expansion? http://forums.lotro.com/showpost.php?p=2032866&postcount=23
They are adding a new monster play area with mines of moria. Wich is PVP area.
Its been confirmed by the devs. There is no new pvmp area in the MOM expansion.
Just tweaks to the existing ettenmoors and vague references to possibly a new pvmp area some time well beyond the MoM expansion.
All us full time creeps just saved cash. Theres no need to buy the expansion unless you have to for the creep autolevel. If thats the case I can wait till MoM's in the discount bin.
edit add link.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=151423
Maybe you should wait and see what thoose changes are... a new PvMP area would only spread out the population and make the PvP worse... some kind of isntance would be nice thou (something like ED but different)
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
the pvmp zone might be a bit different from what we know now, they might make a system where an ingame announcemetn that say that sauron's force are attacking in XXX zone, all the people in the other zone have 10 mins to leave it before they get zoned (unless inside a dungeon).
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
Ouch. That really sucks. Maybe they'll do something like they did with Delving of Fror, and add another instance within Ettenmoors.
I'm wondering why someone play LotRO as a full time creep though. You're really missing out on the rest of the game.
LOTRO is a good MMORPG.
There are two things that would have given the game a real winner status...
1. GOOD vs EVIL played by players. It would be so much more.
2. While the animation is adequate, it could be bettered. I am NOT talking of the graphics, purely the action in the fights.
Point 1 is a real shame, because LOTRO has even better animated fights than Warhammer.
Warhammer is pure lame in speed and hectic fights, therefore it will fail with the hard core PvP players.
LOTRO made a mistake ...with having only the good side to play.
Pity .....
Actually.. LotrO is one of few MMOs that really let you play the Evil side (for example WoW doesnt)
You can choose between Warg, giant spider, 2 kinds of Uruks, 2 kinds of Orcs.. And then PvP against the good guys in Ettenmoors... and you gain new skills/traits by doing PvP
Yea some of the animations sucks (Jumping!!!) but they change some of them every patch...
So I guess that means that LotrO is a winner
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
The problem with making a pve evil side in lotro have already been mentionned, to keep it short. In lotr most evil races just follow the orders of a being vastly mroe powerful than them ( saruman, sauron) and the other like goblin ( not much more than bugs) or wights have goals and mental state that are not described in the lore.
Having an evil side would mean that mordor would have needed to be implemented, as well as the lands to the south which is what turbine probably consider as uber ultra end game content.
Pvmp might become more complicated as the expasions come out, we might see a big pvmp zones with book quests in gondor, but considering how so many of lotro's players ar happy with minor pvp this will stay liek it is for some time.
I do agree that more stuff should be available to creeps, like weapons and shields. And maybe fur paint for wargs and somehing similar for spiders. another special session char for creep side might be great too, a orc general on a warg like in return of the kind would be sweet, but that might come with the arrival of rohan (horseback fighting for sure).
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
Something about this post screams scared of PvP
The OP asked "Real" PvP, you know with consequences...
Lotro fails for me there. PvE can be fun at times but PvP as in Player Vs Player is a joke for me, its not even fun.
LOL so you play Shadowbane now ? I knew aoC was weak GvP (gank vs player) Hope you have a good time in Shadowbane Avery , it is a great PVP game.
I think LotRO Monster Play is a lot more dynamic then people think. You aren't just going into the moors as a freep to pvp , there is some serious loot to get from quests, and having human players inside the monsters really makes completing those quest a lot more difficult. No other game has this kind of dynamic interaction between player vs player. You either get it, or you don't . A lot, A lot of people get it and enjoy it, creating rivalries and just all around epic battles between good vs evil. This is just the beginning lol, I bet you that Mordor will be the biggest MPVP arena ever constructed by man lol ....
Actually I played Shadowbane for nearly a year and left about 11 months ago,have been subbed to Lotro since launch, VG too, As well as AoC of course more recently. I don't find AoC's GvG weak at all, I bet 97% of people that complain about AoC's pvp have not tried Sieges yet.
Regardless, Monster Play is a let down for me, yes loot can be good from quests, and the concept is alright, but it just doesnt pull it off for me. Thats all I am saying. Mordor could swing it back for me to give it a concerted effort again, but at this point in time only reason I am still subbed is because I havent done all PvE aspects yet.
Yo Avery
I finally agreed with a lot of what you said (in this thread), but reading about AoC made me chuckle. Sieges are still broken everybody says and this is two months after launch. AoC still hasn't delivered basic things like blood coins, consequences for pvp, fully working sieges, border kingdoms - where are the towers and ressource control points? Mercenaries? Funcom hasn't delivered the brutal pvp game they promised!! Etc etc..
I honestly would rather pick up Lotro (never tried it) than AoC again (played tech, general beta, open beta, early access and most of my free month)..
That said, I too am very dissappointed with this game.
It is so sad to see SOE sunk the Star Wars IP, Funcom sank Conan and Turbine has sunken both DDO (couldnt stomach it) and Lotro (no pvp).
To the OP:
You won't find many that agree with you here. This game is heavily besieged by the PVE crowd and it is too late now for Turbine to turn it around.
Monster Play is not a chance to develop and grow a character from scratch. And it is not real open pvp.
Personally I can't pick up an mmo without pvp. And I think a good IP like this deserve a real pvp game. Not just some hold your hand storylines for the carebears.
This IP screams realm versus realm warfare.
One can only hope one day they will evolve it and make some pvp servers, but I doubt they will do it now when they have a strong pve fanbase. Too sad it should happen to Tolkien's IP of all things.
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CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
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I play LoTRO as it is, because it's a solid MMO, with a great story, great PVE and BEAUTIFUL graphics and art. This is a time filler for me, I just cancelled my SOE all access account and AoC, and WoW a while back. So I'm playing LoTRO until I get bored or until something better comes out.
What I would have loved to see would have been the choice to play the army of Sauron. Roll an Urak-hai (sp) and go smash some filthy hobbitses...