I dont know about you guys. But if a company stole 100's of dollars from me w/out letting me get my money back. I would do the exact same thing. Some of these vets had 2 accounts with maybe a years worth of prepaid time.
So at 14.99 a month x2 x12 that comes out to 359.76. Thats a hefty amount of money. I sure as hell would try and ruin the company after some crap like that.
Finally sombody gets it.
Word of Mouth....those guys that keep bashing vets for their banter saying they're just looking stupid...are completely wrong.... Word of Mouth is #1 in business world.
As a person who owns a business, YOU BET they are dead on winning every moment they bash soe to a new gamer.
edit:
The average gamer is 30 now... starting to have kids... do u think daddy is going to buy jr. a swg account? LOL....nope. and daddy is going to tell jr's friends about how evil soe and swg are in how they treated daddy a few years ago... viral....word of mouth...marketing. 101.
I also own a business and have to disagree. One pissed off consumer returning something to WalMart will not make a dent in the company. Nor will 1,000 or 100,000. WalMart will always be Walmart. The same can be said for SOE. Pissing off one player or 250,000 will mean nothing because at the end of the day SOE is still SOE.
The truth is, complaining, bitching, word of mouth will never tarnish a company's image because for every one person tarnishing an image, 10 others are improving it. SOE is a seperate division from Sony Electronics, but do you think for one minute that the new generation of 15-20 year old gamers will ever know about SOE and SWG even with your word of mouth? Nope. If you believe you will sway an entire age demographic because of YOUR word-of-mouth then you are dillusional. The next-gen gamers will know Sony as quality for TVs, Blu-Ray, stereos, etc. Even though the two are completely different divisions, next-gen gamers will associate SOE as a quality brand. No amount of your word of mouth can change that.
Originally posted by hubertgrove Originally posted by Thradar You guys act like the new mmo will be out this year. I'd be surprised if you see it in 4 years...when/if Bioware actually confirms it.
Bioware have confirmed it's coming out 'sometime in 2009'. Link in the 'It's Official ' thread on this board.
I just want to go on record saying that "sometime in 2009" in realistic terms means 2011 most likely.
I don't think there has ever been a game that released when they said it would.
We all know that for some reason game devs can't estimate the release of their game for crap. We fans all know (the ones that pay attention) that you take the first estimated release date, and add two years to it, and you'll be much, much closer to an actual release date.
That was the whole point of creating LA, to specifically interject content and features they felt depicted the Star Wars IP.
Uh, no it wasn't. Lucasfilm Games was created in 1982. The name was changed to LucasArts Entertainment Company in 1990. The very first Star Wars title from LEC was X-Wing, in 1993.
How does including Sith and Jedi not follow the story of the KotOR era? Prior to the GCW rea, the Star Wars universe was loaded with Jedi, and in the KotOR era, the was a very large Sith faction.
Bioware's MMO will have at least one thing SWG doesn't have, a lack of SOe involvement. It is also very likey that Bioware's game will be a whole lot more fun than SWG currently is, which won't be very hard to accomplish, since SWG is currently the least fun MMO available.
The CU and NGE were concepts that were conceived by SOE, and approved by LEC. Without SOe in the mix, the concepts sent to LEC for approval will likely be much, much better than the drek SOE shoved out the door.
All in all, it would seem that Bioware's MMO has a chance to be a good game, which is much more than can be said for SWG. Bioware's MMO also has a future, which will not likely be the case for SWG.
My apologies for my inaccuracies in my post, as I am tired. However, I meant to say, that LA's involvement, not creation was the whole point of them joining the SOE team. So that statement should have read...
"That was the whole point of involving LA, to specifically interject content and features they felt depicted the Star Wars IP."
KOTOR era is not during the Sith Empire, atleast I wasn't aware of it. As far I can remember, KOTOR era was based on a time after its destruction, during the rule of two, so if I'm wrong, my apologies once more.
Ok, SOE won't be involved with KOTOR, thats obvious, but that doesn't guarantee KOTOR will give all the angry vets what they've been whining about for 3 years.
I'm not saying KOTOR won't be a great Star Wars game, but it seems to me, the so called Angry Vet Celebration is a kinda weak approach to YOU won. Cause yeah, you didnt win, cause KOTOR will not be SWG 2.
Okay I get what you were saying about LEC's involvement. Yeah, LEC's primary involvement in SWG is to make sure it conforms to the Star Wars IP. They didn't do a very good job.
In both KotOR games, the Sith involved one or more Sith Lord (two in the first game, and two to three in the second) leading a Sith army consisting of many dark Jedi underlings along with non-Jedi combat troops. In the second game, All three of the Sith Lords has at least one apprentice. In the first, both Sith Lords had an apprentice. In both instances, someone might disagree with the number of apprentices, but if you play through the games, you will see that I am correct.
The KotOR games are set after the Sith Empire, but the second one doesn't follow the rule of two (which is actually a centeral plot point, but it isn't really spelled out). The conflict in the games are similar to the GCW era, but the Sith are the insurgents and the Republic are the ones in charge of the government. The first game give a reason why the Sith are able to challenge the Republic, the second one, not so much (the second game was released half finished and the entire second half game was mostly cut, due to Obsidian burning through the development funds and that LEC decided they wanted to release it six months early, it was supposed to be a May release that was changed to the prior Christmas)
I've been posting here for almost two years. My posts primarily consist of pointing out how bad the current game is, and pointing out how awful SOE is. I'd really like to see a new MMO, preferably with no connection to SOE, that is similar to pre-CU SWG, since I think it would make for an excelent game, if it was finished (something SWG never was). I've played and enjoyed several games that are level, class, loot based. The only two games that have held my interest for more than a few months at a time were pre-AOS UO and pre-NGE SWG. I was enough of a Star Wars fan that i even gave the NGE a chance to get better, something that didn't happen. I really do understand why the folks who still play the game because it is Star Wars, still play the game.
I dont know about you guys. But if a company stole 100's of dollars from me w/out letting me get my money back. I would do the exact same thing. Some of these vets had 2 accounts with maybe a years worth of prepaid time.
So at 14.99 a month x2 x12 that comes out to 359.76. Thats a hefty amount of money. I sure as hell would try and ruin the company after some crap like that.
Finally sombody gets it.
Word of Mouth....those guys that keep bashing vets for their banter saying they're just looking stupid...are completely wrong.... Word of Mouth is #1 in business world.
As a person who owns a business, YOU BET they are dead on winning every moment they bash soe to a new gamer.
edit:
The average gamer is 30 now... starting to have kids... do u think daddy is going to buy jr. a swg account? LOL....nope. and daddy is going to tell jr's friends about how evil soe and swg are in how they treated daddy a few years ago... viral....word of mouth...marketing. 101.
I also own a business and have to disagree. One pissed off consumer returning something to WalMart will not make a dent in the company. Nor will 1,000 or 100,000. WalMart will always be Walmart. The same can be said for SOE. Pissing off one player or 250,000 will mean nothing because at the end of the day SOE is still SOE.
The truth is, complaining, bitching, word of mouth will never tarnish a company's image because for every one person tarnishing an image, 10 others are improving it. SOE is a seperate division from Sony Electronics, but do you think for one minute that the new generation of 15-20 year old gamers will ever know about SOE and SWG even with your word of mouth? Nope. If you believe you will sway an entire age demographic because of YOUR word-of-mouth then you are dillusional. The next-gen gamers will know Sony as quality for TVs, Blu-Ray, stereos, etc. Even though the two are completely different divisions, next-gen gamers will associate SOE as a quality brand. No amount of your word of mouth can change that.
Better head back for Marketing 201.
Welcome to the Internet age. Marketing 201 wasn't ready for it, I promise. And SWG is the epic example of it.
As a business owner, you obviously know that there are two primary ways to get to the top in business: 1) Be the lowest-cost provider (as Walmart is), or 2) Provide a good or service that nobody else can, or provide it easier than anyone else can. When I go to buy a gallon of milk, I don't typically check relevant Internet forums to see if anyone else has tried the milk at Walmart, is it worth the cost, does it taste funny, etc. Nor do many people in my age demographic, or the one below me that every game company in the world is salivating over and that World of Warcraft now owns.
However, as you also no doubt know as you are a business owner, people remember maybe 1 out of every 200 good experiences with a company (there's a number documented somewhere but I can't be arsed), but they VIVIDLY remember EVERY bad one. And they tend to let others know about it any way they can. MMOs, not being milk, are very heavily promoted via word of mouth (erm fingers?) on forums such as these. Hence the birth of viral marketing. Would that be a 500-level Marketing class? Anyway, I'm not going to throw out numbers as far as how many people Sony screwed over that actually complain about it, as nobody really knows. But it's enough. And when that many people make that loud of a noise, people to tend to go "ok, what's the fuss about?" and look a little deeper into it.
To follow your analogy, it's a bit like somebody putting up a physical bulletin board outside Walmart where people can write down their experiences about shopping there, and you can choose to glance at it or not before going into the store. How many people would see it, stay for a minute to read, and turn around and head to Target? As far as SOE goes, I can tell you more than one person has. And anyone in the next generation who feels Sony or SOE is a quality brand has either ignored the negative press or hasn't taken the time to glance at that bulletin board.
I dont know about you guys. But if a company stole 100's of dollars from me w/out letting me get my money back. I would do the exact same thing. Some of these vets had 2 accounts with maybe a years worth of prepaid time.
So at 14.99 a month x2 x12 that comes out to 359.76. Thats a hefty amount of money. I sure as hell would try and ruin the company after some crap like that.
Finally sombody gets it.
Word of Mouth....those guys that keep bashing vets for their banter saying they're just looking stupid...are completely wrong.... Word of Mouth is #1 in business world.
As a person who owns a business, YOU BET they are dead on winning every moment they bash soe to a new gamer.
edit:
The average gamer is 30 now... starting to have kids... do u think daddy is going to buy jr. a swg account? LOL....nope. and daddy is going to tell jr's friends about how evil soe and swg are in how they treated daddy a few years ago... viral....word of mouth...marketing. 101.
I also own a business and have to disagree. One pissed off consumer returning something to WalMart will not make a dent in the company. Nor will 1,000 or 100,000. WalMart will always be Walmart. The same can be said for SOE. Pissing off one player or 250,000 will mean nothing because at the end of the day SOE is still SOE.
The truth is, complaining, bitching, word of mouth will never tarnish a company's image because for every one person tarnishing an image, 10 others are improving it. SOE is a seperate division from Sony Electronics, but do you think for one minute that the new generation of 15-20 year old gamers will ever know about SOE and SWG even with your word of mouth? Nope. If you believe you will sway an entire age demographic because of YOUR word-of-mouth then you are dillusional. The next-gen gamers will know Sony as quality for TVs, Blu-Ray, stereos, etc. Even though the two are completely different divisions, next-gen gamers will associate SOE as a quality brand. No amount of your word of mouth can change that.
Better head back for Marketing 201.
We're not talking about the biggest company in the world, wal-mart. if we were I'd agree with your statements of 250k ppl not making a dent.
We're talking about an industry (minus wow) that is much smaller. And 250k ppl quitting and telling all their friends why is DEVATSTATING.
Don't tell me you don't know how 1 negative statment can affect dozens of ppl. vs. 1 positive. << 101.
When the NGE hit there were stories in the NYT for crying out loud by writers who were swg players...SOE took a gut hit so bad, ...don't tell me word of mouth didn't hurt them here.
Check your facts... What is the age of the average gamer again today?
Seriously? You're background static lost in a sea of marketing noise. 95% of the people who have played MMOs never played SWG. Many who played it never liked it. Most people who play MMOs don't spend any significant amount of time on gaming forums. Many of the ones who do think you're a bunch of whiny nerds. There's not enough of you and you're not public enough to make an appreciable change in the market.
I await your detailed and lengthy explanation of why the NGE did not succeed in its quest to garnish 1 bajillion subscriptions, since the vocal former player base certainly had nothing to do with it in an industry that relies mostly on word of mouth. And everyone who has ever posted on a gaming forum is a whiny nerd at some point. Sticks and stones...
Seriously? You're background static lost in a sea of marketing noise. 95% of the people who have played MMOs never played SWG. Many who played it never liked it. Most people who play MMOs don't spend any significant amount of time on gaming forums. Many of the ones who do think you're a bunch of whiny nerds. There's not enough of you and you're not public enough to make an appreciable change in the market.
I await your detailed and lengthy explanation of why the NGE did not succeed in its quest to garnish 1 bajillion subscriptions, since the vocal former player base certainly had nothing to do with it in an industry that relies mostly on word of mouth. And everyone who has ever posted on a gaming forum is a whiny nerd at some point. Sticks and stones...
Are you trying to tell me that 250k mad ppl didn't affect NGE resale value?
Marketing should have been able to counteract a small vocal minority, but even the recent blog by that guy (Rubenfield?) that left SOE blamed markenting for dropping the ball... it's Star wars....the most popular IP in history....right? The angry player base steam rolled the media and they went into damage control instantly... that's why Torres went on attack of the show and tried to belittle us all...saying we didn't matter....it's exactly why we mattered, because they had to say we didn't.
cmon Z.... Are you trying to tell me that 250k mad ppl didn't affect NGE resale value? Marketing should have been able to counteract a small vocal minority, but even the recent blog by that guy (Rubenfield?) that left SOE blamed markenting for dropping the ball... it's Star wars....the most popular IP in history....right? The angry player base steam rolled the media and they went into damage control instantly... that's why Torres went on attack of the show and tried to belittle us all...saying we didn't matter....it's exactly why we mattered, because they had to say we didn't. Tell me again that word of mouth didn't matter.
NGE has no resale value. PRE-CU didn't either. The game was on a plunge to obscurity. If it weren't for station pass it wouldn't even exist now. The world moved on. What mattered is the game failed to reach projected profits. It was doing that with or without the uproar. It probably did more to set back sandbox games that any other before or since. The lesson learned was even with a big company like Sony and an IP like Star Wars sandbox games are failures. That's the wrong lesson but it's the one the industry took to heart. All the drama did was reinforce the lesson. So no word of mouth didn't really matter. In the end you're just pissing on the grave you didn't bury it. Sony did that.
250K is really stretching it. The game had maybe 25k hardcore fans most of whom remained silent to this day. Without NGE/CU it would have stabilized at maybe 50k subscriptions. If there are 5,000 people still vocal about it I'd be very surprised. Most moved on long ago.
those silent ones that moved on.... you REALLY think that when games or gaming comes up in topic that they won't take a shot at NGE if it comes? really? they are silent on forums ya...but word of mouth...is LONG and STRONG my friend. ...and they may have moved on, but they're NOT silent. When a person feels they got ripped off, they tell ppl to avoid the business they got ripped off from. ...always. (Unless hard earned cash means nothing to them, in which case they don't fit the demographic either)
I don't know if we'll every now just how many subs came and went...Soe keeps that tightly guarded secret...But from the original swg boards...a post showed that they hit the panic button after NGE...WAY more ppl jumped ship than they ever dreamed of.... I'm sure somone can produce the post that backs that up...I don't post there ever since NGE. (I remain silent there.....but not here...and not in the world I am in either) I work with a ton of IT ppl...and we all talk game every day...and they all knew about what swg turned into before i ever met them...how? word of mouth.
p.s. what is that pic of for your board avatar? It looks familiar but i can't quite place it...it's great.
Word of mouth always matters. Before NGE I knew plenty of people asking about if they should try it. After NGE, If SWG came up in convo...most had already heard that it was a piece of junk not worth trying. I personally havent ran into anyone aside from the internet that had heard anything good about it.
Originally posted by zymurgeist Originally posted by Kylrathin Originally posted by zymurgeist Seriously? You're background static lost in a sea of marketing noise. 95% of the people who have played MMOs never played SWG. Many who played it never liked it. Most people who play MMOs don't spend any significant amount of time on gaming forums. Many of the ones who do think you're a bunch of whiny nerds. There's not enough of you and you're not public enough to make an appreciable change in the market.
I await your detailed and lengthy explanation of why the NGE did not succeed in its quest to garnish 1 bajillion subscriptions, since the vocal former player base certainly had nothing to do with it in an industry that relies mostly on word of mouth. And everyone who has ever posted on a gaming forum is a whiny nerd at some point. Sticks and stones...
Don't hold your breath. The game sucked before and after NGE. It didn't produce the numbers needed to matter and you don't either. Word of mouth may be a factor but in this casr it's not that big a factor. Too few mouths. You'll notice they didn't stop making games with many of the features of NGE.
the game sucked before the NGE because SOE made it suck through mismanagement. They haven'r made a game with features from the NGE since the NGE, they purchased two games, and those games failed.
Now to be fair, the customers don't get the credit ESSENTIALLY, eother way. SOE is completely at fault for failing and creating the negative word of mouth that has made them a failure and unable to have a successful game. bad management has caused all their games to either stagnate or fail.
Originally posted by zymurgeist Originally posted by Elowyn Word of mouth always matters. Before NGE I knew plenty of people asking about if they should try it. After NGE, If SWG came up in convo...most had already heard that it was a piece of junk not worth trying. I personally havent ran into anyone aside from the internet that had heard anything good about it. Word of mouth is a killer ....
Does it really matter if you shoot a corpse? The pre release buzz was SWG was a bug-ridden incomplete mess. People still bought it. Word of mouth was AoC would be crapware. People still bought it. A lot of people. The word of mouth was right. The outrage was epic. People still pay to play it. People are still buying it. For how long I wouldn't care to guess. Word of mouth didn't kill SWG SOE/LA did. Don't confuse effect for cause.
Now you are going into the "goes without saying" part of the discussion. Of course the primary cause is SOE (also LA to a lesser extent). But that generated the bad word of mouth that helped kill it, to the eextent that it is dead. It has also helped hurt alltheir other games, which also are bad in and of themselves, and thus generate their own negative word-of-mouth.
the EFFECT is people not buying the game. The primary cause is SOE. bad word-of-mouth is BOTH an effect and then supsequently a secondary cause.
The primary cause gets BLAME, the secondary cause 9which is also an effect), deserves CREDIT. That's the contextual difference we are dealing with.
he has lots of sources listed ...reputable sources. Word of mouth.. 6% is only online...
the biggest chunk is person to person contact.... so while you see "a ton" of "whiners" on here...we only statistically are 6% of the totol of swg vets spreading the word...nice
"Remember, no matter what they say, that we won and we won big."
Like a Scientologist whose kid just died and all he has to say, "It was God's will."
Yeah because discussing what happened to a video game is the same as wacky religious people killing their kids. Think before you post this kind of tripe in the future.
Originally posted by vet-in-exile Originally posted by Slampig "Remember, no matter what they say, that we won and we won big."
Like a Scientologist whose kid just died and all he has to say, "It was God's will."
Yeah because discussing what happened to a video game is the same as wacky religious people killing their kids. Think before you post this kind of tripe in the future. Plus, it's not 'scientologists" who say that, it is "christian scientists."
One should get one's wacky religious doctrines straight if one is to use them in an anology
BUT, obviously you don't understand what an analogy is. The elements in analogies can be very different (video games and wacky religions) but the relationship can be the same (ie: wacky religion leads to death of a kid, similarly, negative word of mouth leads to the death of a game).
is it a dumb analogy? sure. But it is a poor critique to imply something the person did not have to imply in order for an analogy to work (ie death of a kid is the same as a video game).
"Remember, no matter what they say, that we won and we won big."
Like a Scientologist whose kid just died and all he has to say, "It was God's will."
Yeah because discussing what happened to a video game is the same as wacky religious people killing their kids. Think before you post this kind of tripe in the future.
Plus, it's not 'scientologists" who say that, it is "christian scientists."
One should get one's wacky religious doctrines straight if one is to use them in an anology
BUT, obviously you don't understand what an analogy is. The elements in analogies can be very different (video games and wacky religions) but the relationship can be the same (ie: wacky religion leads to death of a kid, similarly, negative word of mouth leads to the death of a game).
is it a dumb analogy? sure. But it is a poor critique to imply something the person did not have to imply in order for an analogy to work (ie death of a kid is the same as a video game).
My point was using the death of a child as an analogy is dumb because it creates unnecessary emotional responses and doesn't further either party's argument.
Originally posted by vet-in-exile Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by vet-in-exile
Originally posted by Slampig
"Remember, no matter what they say, that we won and we won big."
Like a Scientologist whose kid just died and all he has to say, "It was God's will."
Yeah because discussing what happened to a video game is the same as wacky religious people killing their kids. Think before you post this kind of tripe in the future. Plus, it's not 'scientologists" who say that, it is "christian scientists."
One should get one's wacky religious doctrines straight if one is to use them in an anology BUT, obviously you don't understand what an analogy is. The elements in analogies can be very different (video games and wacky religions) but the relationship can be the same (ie: wacky religion leads to death of a kid, similarly, negative word of mouth leads to the death of a game). is it a dumb analogy? sure. But it is a poor critique to imply something the person did not have to imply in order for an analogy to work (ie death of a kid is the same as a video game). My point was using the death of a child as an analogy is dumb because it creates unnecessary emotional responses and doesn't further either party's argument. Then your point was VERY poorly made.
"Remember, no matter what they say, that we won and we won big."
Like a Scientologist whose kid just died and all he has to say, "It was God's will."
Yeah because discussing what happened to a video game is the same as wacky religious people killing their kids. Think before you post this kind of tripe in the future.
Plus, it's not 'scientologists" who say that, it is "christian scientists."
One should get one's wacky religious doctrines straight if one is to use them in an anology
BUT, obviously you don't understand what an analogy is. The elements in analogies can be very different (video games and wacky religions) but the relationship can be the same (ie: wacky religion leads to death of a kid, similarly, negative word of mouth leads to the death of a game).
is it a dumb analogy? sure. But it is a poor critique to imply something the person did not have to imply in order for an analogy to work (ie death of a kid is the same as a video game).
My point was using the death of a child as an analogy is dumb because it creates unnecessary emotional responses and doesn't further either party's argument.
Then your point was VERY poorly made.
Nothing wrong with a little passion in life, no? :P
Seriously? You're background static lost in a sea of marketing noise. 95% of the people who have played MMOs never played SWG. Many who played it never liked it. Most people who play MMOs don't spend any significant amount of time on gaming forums. Many of the ones who do think you're a bunch of whiny nerds. There's not enough of you and you're not public enough to make an appreciable change in the market.
I await your detailed and lengthy explanation of why the NGE did not succeed in its quest to garnish 1 bajillion subscriptions, since the vocal former player base certainly had nothing to do with it in an industry that relies mostly on word of mouth. And everyone who has ever posted on a gaming forum is a whiny nerd at some point. Sticks and stones...
Don't hold your breath. The game sucked before and after NGE. It didn't produce the numbers needed to matter and you don't either. Word of mouth may be a factor but in this casr it's not that big a factor. Too few mouths. You'll notice they didn't stop making games with many of the features of NGE.
I've also noticed that they haven't stopped making cars with many of the features of the '70 Camaro, such as four tires, an engine, a trunk...
Neither your analogy nor mine have anything to do with the conversation. Trying to belittle me only hurts your case. And in this instance, a few mouths made a loud enough noise to shut down SOE's grand plans. How many subscriptions does the NGE garnish? Do you know? Are you willing to bet it is more than it was pre-CU? Because just the fact that the NGE didn't gain massive market share while WoW either lost it or stayed stagnant is a win for us disgruntled vets. That's what they hoped to accomplish with the NGE, and they did not, and we did have something to do with that, unless you can prove otherwise (I'm still waiting). THAT'S what the win is for us, and that's why the NGE is a failure. The announcement of a new Star Wars game is just vindication, that's it.
Originally posted by zymurgeist Originally posted by Kylrathin I've also noticed that they haven't stopped making cars with many of the features of the '70 Camaro, such as four tires, an engine, a trunk...
Neither your analogy nor mine have anything to do with the conversation. Trying to belittle me only hurts your case. And in this instance, a few mouths made a loud enough noise to shut down SOE's grand plans. How many subscriptions does the NGE garnish? Do you know? Are you willing to bet it is more than it was pre-CU? Because just the fact that the NGE didn't gain massive market share while WoW either lost it or stayed stagnant is a win for us disgruntled vets. That's what they hoped to accomplish with the NGE, and they did not, and we did have something to do with that, unless you can prove otherwise (I'm still waiting). THAT'S what the win is for us, and that's why the NGE is a failure. The announcement of a new Star Wars game is just vindication, that's it.
!970 Camaroa were very popular. All the Camaoros were. That's one reason they still make Camaros. Tires trunks and engines are also very popular, thats why cars have them. However they do still make MMOs ,successful ones, with many of the features of NGE. Quod erat demonstrandum it wasn't the features of NGE that were the cause of it's failure. My analogy isn't an analogy at ll. It's logic. Don't confuse cause with effect. The outcry was an effect of NGE's failure not the cause of it. If NGE had been any good people might have played it. At that point though they could have released a perfect game and it likely would still have failed. The damage had already been done. People were leaving the game in droves.
No one is saying the outcry was the cause of the NGE's failure. they are saying that the outcry was the cause of SWG's failure. The NGE failed because it sucked.
That LED TO the outcry, which is both an effect and then became a cause as well.
The NGE was the removal of 32 professions and replacing them with nine. It was also fraud. No games have done that and succeeded. You have demonstrated nothing.
What "features" are you speaking of? the clicky combat? the only MMO that has used that is Tabula Rasa, and that one isn't doing so well.
What other features are part of any new MMOs and how successful are they? You have demonstrated nothing since you provide no concrete examples.
man people on these forums are maming less and less sense.
I find it hard to claim any sort of a victory. Nov. 2005 SOE forced the NGE upon a player base which, for the most part, said no thanks. Packed their bags and left we lost a significant time investment and a small monetary one.
March 2006 rolls around and BioWare announces they have opened an Austin office to work on an MMO. Myself and many other people across the intertubez deduced that it was going to be a Star Wars MMO. With the development staff that they hired there was a small hope for a new sandbox game which within the year, or so, was gently brushed aside with the details that they were focusing on an MMO version of a BioWare style game. Is that a lose? Not in the least.
You see, back on the official forums, quite a while ago, there was a call (of which I was apart of) for SOE to sell off the game to BioWare or talk with BioWare and LA to see about shifting the game to a different timeline. With the introduction of the Hologrind there was going to be a huge influx of jedi toons. SOE insured this would be the case with the changes to permadeath, TEF etc. This was a complete break with the canon and timeline that Julio Torres was supposed to be ensuring as he was the middleman between Lucas and Sony.
All in all the only people that lost were the gamers, which is how it normally works, when you look at the broader picture. SWG may or may not ever close it's doors. Apart from AC2 there has not really been a BIG name MMO to shut down. SOE most likely never will because they get to say "see how awesome our station pass offering is?". They will never release pre-cu servers as most of the vets are gone. I think there are a helluva lot more of us that have no desire to ever return than will. I think it is pretty evident to anyone out there that Lucas can care less about the Star Wars IP except that it is a cash cow. He hasn't really cared about the universe that he created since Return of the Jedi, Ewoks!?!?!?! WTF? lol. As long as he is getting something from SOE monthly then I am sure he is content.
While I, along with a number of other people, would love to see another sandbox skill based game, the market isn't exactly swinging that way. At least until someone comeso ut with one that is successful. I would wager that the White Wolf/CCP Darkness MMO will as that's what CCP does. BioWare will give us a solid story based MMO set in the Star Wars Universe that we can all sink our teeth into for a time. It will be fun, most likely gorgeous to look at, and may set the bar higher for following mmos.
Gamers lost, SOE lost as they are the pinnacle of what Not to do in the industry, and Lucas lost (and has been losing) because of the treatment of the Star Wars IP. While we may, as vets, claim some small victory because the vast majority of people feel the same as us about the NGE and SOE, all in all everyone lost.
3 years of money they could've been making if they hadn't screwed up in the first place.
I don't want them to take too long with this one, but I hope they take enough time to make a solid sandbox, instead of a linear piece-o-shit like AOC ended up.
Comments
Finally sombody gets it.
Word of Mouth....those guys that keep bashing vets for their banter saying they're just looking stupid...are completely wrong.... Word of Mouth is #1 in business world.
As a person who owns a business, YOU BET they are dead on winning every moment they bash soe to a new gamer.
edit:
The average gamer is 30 now... starting to have kids... do u think daddy is going to buy jr. a swg account? LOL....nope. and daddy is going to tell jr's friends about how evil soe and swg are in how they treated daddy a few years ago... viral....word of mouth...marketing. 101.
I also own a business and have to disagree. One pissed off consumer returning something to WalMart will not make a dent in the company. Nor will 1,000 or 100,000. WalMart will always be Walmart. The same can be said for SOE. Pissing off one player or 250,000 will mean nothing because at the end of the day SOE is still SOE.
The truth is, complaining, bitching, word of mouth will never tarnish a company's image because for every one person tarnishing an image, 10 others are improving it. SOE is a seperate division from Sony Electronics, but do you think for one minute that the new generation of 15-20 year old gamers will ever know about SOE and SWG even with your word of mouth? Nope. If you believe you will sway an entire age demographic because of YOUR word-of-mouth then you are dillusional. The next-gen gamers will know Sony as quality for TVs, Blu-Ray, stereos, etc. Even though the two are completely different divisions, next-gen gamers will associate SOE as a quality brand. No amount of your word of mouth can change that.
Better head back for Marketing 201.
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
Bioware have confirmed it's coming out 'sometime in 2009'. Link in the 'It's Official ' thread on this board.
I just want to go on record saying that "sometime in 2009" in realistic terms means 2011 most likely.
I don't think there has ever been a game that released when they said it would.
We all know that for some reason game devs can't estimate the release of their game for crap. We fans all know (the ones that pay attention) that you take the first estimated release date, and add two years to it, and you'll be much, much closer to an actual release date.
Uh, no it wasn't. Lucasfilm Games was created in 1982. The name was changed to LucasArts Entertainment Company in 1990. The very first Star Wars title from LEC was X-Wing, in 1993.
How does including Sith and Jedi not follow the story of the KotOR era? Prior to the GCW rea, the Star Wars universe was loaded with Jedi, and in the KotOR era, the was a very large Sith faction.
Bioware's MMO will have at least one thing SWG doesn't have, a lack of SOe involvement. It is also very likey that Bioware's game will be a whole lot more fun than SWG currently is, which won't be very hard to accomplish, since SWG is currently the least fun MMO available.
The CU and NGE were concepts that were conceived by SOE, and approved by LEC. Without SOe in the mix, the concepts sent to LEC for approval will likely be much, much better than the drek SOE shoved out the door.
All in all, it would seem that Bioware's MMO has a chance to be a good game, which is much more than can be said for SWG. Bioware's MMO also has a future, which will not likely be the case for SWG.
My apologies for my inaccuracies in my post, as I am tired. However, I meant to say, that LA's involvement, not creation was the whole point of them joining the SOE team. So that statement should have read...
"That was the whole point of involving LA, to specifically interject content and features they felt depicted the Star Wars IP."
KOTOR era is not during the Sith Empire, atleast I wasn't aware of it. As far I can remember, KOTOR era was based on a time after its destruction, during the rule of two, so if I'm wrong, my apologies once more.
Ok, SOE won't be involved with KOTOR, thats obvious, but that doesn't guarantee KOTOR will give all the angry vets what they've been whining about for 3 years.
I'm not saying KOTOR won't be a great Star Wars game, but it seems to me, the so called Angry Vet Celebration is a kinda weak approach to YOU won. Cause yeah, you didnt win, cause KOTOR will not be SWG 2.
Okay I get what you were saying about LEC's involvement. Yeah, LEC's primary involvement in SWG is to make sure it conforms to the Star Wars IP. They didn't do a very good job.
In both KotOR games, the Sith involved one or more Sith Lord (two in the first game, and two to three in the second) leading a Sith army consisting of many dark Jedi underlings along with non-Jedi combat troops. In the second game, All three of the Sith Lords has at least one apprentice. In the first, both Sith Lords had an apprentice. In both instances, someone might disagree with the number of apprentices, but if you play through the games, you will see that I am correct.
The KotOR games are set after the Sith Empire, but the second one doesn't follow the rule of two (which is actually a centeral plot point, but it isn't really spelled out). The conflict in the games are similar to the GCW era, but the Sith are the insurgents and the Republic are the ones in charge of the government. The first game give a reason why the Sith are able to challenge the Republic, the second one, not so much (the second game was released half finished and the entire second half game was mostly cut, due to Obsidian burning through the development funds and that LEC decided they wanted to release it six months early, it was supposed to be a May release that was changed to the prior Christmas)
I've been posting here for almost two years. My posts primarily consist of pointing out how bad the current game is, and pointing out how awful SOE is. I'd really like to see a new MMO, preferably with no connection to SOE, that is similar to pre-CU SWG, since I think it would make for an excelent game, if it was finished (something SWG never was). I've played and enjoyed several games that are level, class, loot based. The only two games that have held my interest for more than a few months at a time were pre-AOS UO and pre-NGE SWG. I was enough of a Star Wars fan that i even gave the NGE a chance to get better, something that didn't happen. I really do understand why the folks who still play the game because it is Star Wars, still play the game.
Finally sombody gets it.
Word of Mouth....those guys that keep bashing vets for their banter saying they're just looking stupid...are completely wrong.... Word of Mouth is #1 in business world.
As a person who owns a business, YOU BET they are dead on winning every moment they bash soe to a new gamer.
edit:
The average gamer is 30 now... starting to have kids... do u think daddy is going to buy jr. a swg account? LOL....nope. and daddy is going to tell jr's friends about how evil soe and swg are in how they treated daddy a few years ago... viral....word of mouth...marketing. 101.
I also own a business and have to disagree. One pissed off consumer returning something to WalMart will not make a dent in the company. Nor will 1,000 or 100,000. WalMart will always be Walmart. The same can be said for SOE. Pissing off one player or 250,000 will mean nothing because at the end of the day SOE is still SOE.
The truth is, complaining, bitching, word of mouth will never tarnish a company's image because for every one person tarnishing an image, 10 others are improving it. SOE is a seperate division from Sony Electronics, but do you think for one minute that the new generation of 15-20 year old gamers will ever know about SOE and SWG even with your word of mouth? Nope. If you believe you will sway an entire age demographic because of YOUR word-of-mouth then you are dillusional. The next-gen gamers will know Sony as quality for TVs, Blu-Ray, stereos, etc. Even though the two are completely different divisions, next-gen gamers will associate SOE as a quality brand. No amount of your word of mouth can change that.
Better head back for Marketing 201.
Welcome to the Internet age. Marketing 201 wasn't ready for it, I promise. And SWG is the epic example of it.
As a business owner, you obviously know that there are two primary ways to get to the top in business: 1) Be the lowest-cost provider (as Walmart is), or 2) Provide a good or service that nobody else can, or provide it easier than anyone else can. When I go to buy a gallon of milk, I don't typically check relevant Internet forums to see if anyone else has tried the milk at Walmart, is it worth the cost, does it taste funny, etc. Nor do many people in my age demographic, or the one below me that every game company in the world is salivating over and that World of Warcraft now owns.
However, as you also no doubt know as you are a business owner, people remember maybe 1 out of every 200 good experiences with a company (there's a number documented somewhere but I can't be arsed), but they VIVIDLY remember EVERY bad one. And they tend to let others know about it any way they can. MMOs, not being milk, are very heavily promoted via word of mouth (erm fingers?) on forums such as these. Hence the birth of viral marketing. Would that be a 500-level Marketing class? Anyway, I'm not going to throw out numbers as far as how many people Sony screwed over that actually complain about it, as nobody really knows. But it's enough. And when that many people make that loud of a noise, people to tend to go "ok, what's the fuss about?" and look a little deeper into it.
To follow your analogy, it's a bit like somebody putting up a physical bulletin board outside Walmart where people can write down their experiences about shopping there, and you can choose to glance at it or not before going into the store. How many people would see it, stay for a minute to read, and turn around and head to Target? As far as SOE goes, I can tell you more than one person has. And anyone in the next generation who feels Sony or SOE is a quality brand has either ignored the negative press or hasn't taken the time to glance at that bulletin board.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
Finally sombody gets it.
Word of Mouth....those guys that keep bashing vets for their banter saying they're just looking stupid...are completely wrong.... Word of Mouth is #1 in business world.
As a person who owns a business, YOU BET they are dead on winning every moment they bash soe to a new gamer.
edit:
The average gamer is 30 now... starting to have kids... do u think daddy is going to buy jr. a swg account? LOL....nope. and daddy is going to tell jr's friends about how evil soe and swg are in how they treated daddy a few years ago... viral....word of mouth...marketing. 101.
I also own a business and have to disagree. One pissed off consumer returning something to WalMart will not make a dent in the company. Nor will 1,000 or 100,000. WalMart will always be Walmart. The same can be said for SOE. Pissing off one player or 250,000 will mean nothing because at the end of the day SOE is still SOE.
The truth is, complaining, bitching, word of mouth will never tarnish a company's image because for every one person tarnishing an image, 10 others are improving it. SOE is a seperate division from Sony Electronics, but do you think for one minute that the new generation of 15-20 year old gamers will ever know about SOE and SWG even with your word of mouth? Nope. If you believe you will sway an entire age demographic because of YOUR word-of-mouth then you are dillusional. The next-gen gamers will know Sony as quality for TVs, Blu-Ray, stereos, etc. Even though the two are completely different divisions, next-gen gamers will associate SOE as a quality brand. No amount of your word of mouth can change that.
Better head back for Marketing 201.
We're not talking about the biggest company in the world, wal-mart. if we were I'd agree with your statements of 250k ppl not making a dent.
We're talking about an industry (minus wow) that is much smaller. And 250k ppl quitting and telling all their friends why is DEVATSTATING.
Don't tell me you don't know how 1 negative statment can affect dozens of ppl. vs. 1 positive. << 101.
When the NGE hit there were stories in the NYT for crying out loud by writers who were swg players...SOE took a gut hit so bad, ...don't tell me word of mouth didn't hurt them here.
Check your facts... What is the age of the average gamer again today?
201...Soe never got that far.
I await your detailed and lengthy explanation of why the NGE did not succeed in its quest to garnish 1 bajillion subscriptions, since the vocal former player base certainly had nothing to do with it in an industry that relies mostly on word of mouth. And everyone who has ever posted on a gaming forum is a whiny nerd at some point. Sticks and stones...
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
I await your detailed and lengthy explanation of why the NGE did not succeed in its quest to garnish 1 bajillion subscriptions, since the vocal former player base certainly had nothing to do with it in an industry that relies mostly on word of mouth. And everyone who has ever posted on a gaming forum is a whiny nerd at some point. Sticks and stones...
QFE
cmon Z....
Are you trying to tell me that 250k mad ppl didn't affect NGE resale value?
Marketing should have been able to counteract a small vocal minority, but even the recent blog by that guy (Rubenfield?) that left SOE blamed markenting for dropping the ball... it's Star wars....the most popular IP in history....right? The angry player base steam rolled the media and they went into damage control instantly... that's why Torres went on attack of the show and tried to belittle us all...saying we didn't matter....it's exactly why we mattered, because they had to say we didn't.
Tell me again that word of mouth didn't matter.
NGE has no resale value. PRE-CU didn't either. The game was on a plunge to obscurity. If it weren't for station pass it wouldn't even exist now. The world moved on. What mattered is the game failed to reach projected profits. It was doing that with or without the uproar. It probably did more to set back sandbox games that any other before or since. The lesson learned was even with a big company like Sony and an IP like Star Wars sandbox games are failures. That's the wrong lesson but it's the one the industry took to heart. All the drama did was reinforce the lesson. So no word of mouth didn't really matter. In the end you're just pissing on the grave you didn't bury it. Sony did that.
250K is really stretching it. The game had maybe 25k hardcore fans most of whom remained silent to this day. Without NGE/CU it would have stabilized at maybe 50k subscriptions. If there are 5,000 people still vocal about it I'd be very surprised. Most moved on long ago.
those silent ones that moved on.... you REALLY think that when games or gaming comes up in topic that they won't take a shot at NGE if it comes? really? they are silent on forums ya...but word of mouth...is LONG and STRONG my friend. ...and they may have moved on, but they're NOT silent. When a person feels they got ripped off, they tell ppl to avoid the business they got ripped off from. ...always. (Unless hard earned cash means nothing to them, in which case they don't fit the demographic either)
I don't know if we'll every now just how many subs came and went...Soe keeps that tightly guarded secret...But from the original swg boards...a post showed that they hit the panic button after NGE...WAY more ppl jumped ship than they ever dreamed of.... I'm sure somone can produce the post that backs that up...I don't post there ever since NGE. (I remain silent there.....but not here...and not in the world I am in either) I work with a ton of IT ppl...and we all talk game every day...and they all knew about what swg turned into before i ever met them...how? word of mouth.
p.s. what is that pic of for your board avatar? It looks familiar but i can't quite place it...it's great.
"Remember, no matter what they say, that we won and we won big."
Like a Scientologist whose kid just died and all he has to say, "It was God's will."
I am sure YOU had everything to do with this, hooray for YOU!
Now you have a new Star Wars MMO and you STILL go on and on about SWG...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Word of mouth always matters. Before NGE I knew plenty of people asking about if they should try it. After NGE, If SWG came up in convo...most had already heard that it was a piece of junk not worth trying. I personally havent ran into anyone aside from the internet that had heard anything good about it.
Word of mouth is a killer ....
I await your detailed and lengthy explanation of why the NGE did not succeed in its quest to garnish 1 bajillion subscriptions, since the vocal former player base certainly had nothing to do with it in an industry that relies mostly on word of mouth. And everyone who has ever posted on a gaming forum is a whiny nerd at some point. Sticks and stones...
Don't hold your breath. The game sucked before and after NGE. It didn't produce the numbers needed to matter and you don't either. Word of mouth may be a factor but in this casr it's not that big a factor. Too few mouths. You'll notice they didn't stop making games with many of the features of NGE.
the game sucked before the NGE because SOE made it suck through mismanagement. They haven'r made a game with features from the NGE since the NGE, they purchased two games, and those games failed.
Now to be fair, the customers don't get the credit ESSENTIALLY, eother way. SOE is completely at fault for failing and creating the negative word of mouth that has made them a failure and unable to have a successful game. bad management has caused all their games to either stagnate or fail.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Does it really matter if you shoot a corpse? The pre release buzz was SWG was a bug-ridden incomplete mess. People still bought it. Word of mouth was AoC would be crapware. People still bought it. A lot of people. The word of mouth was right. The outrage was epic. People still pay to play it. People are still buying it. For how long I wouldn't care to guess.
Word of mouth didn't kill SWG SOE/LA did. Don't confuse effect for cause.
Now you are going into the "goes without saying" part of the discussion. Of course the primary cause is SOE (also LA to a lesser extent). But that generated the bad word of mouth that helped kill it, to the eextent that it is dead. It has also helped hurt alltheir other games, which also are bad in and of themselves, and thus generate their own negative word-of-mouth.
the EFFECT is people not buying the game. The primary cause is SOE. bad word-of-mouth is BOTH an effect and then supsequently a secondary cause.
The primary cause gets BLAME, the secondary cause 9which is also an effect), deserves CREDIT. That's the contextual difference we are dealing with.
fishermage.blogspot.com
found a good link with some great word of mouth statistics...
http://buzzcanuck.typepad.com/agentwildfire/2006/01/top_11_killer_s.html
he has lots of sources listed ...reputable sources. Word of mouth.. 6% is only online...
the biggest chunk is person to person contact.... so while you see "a ton" of "whiners" on here...we only statistically are 6% of the totol of swg vets spreading the word...nice
Faxx(er)
Yeah because discussing what happened to a video game is the same as wacky religious people killing their kids. Think before you post this kind of tripe in the future.
Plus, it's not 'scientologists" who say that, it is "christian scientists."
One should get one's wacky religious doctrines straight if one is to use them in an anology
BUT, obviously you don't understand what an analogy is. The elements in analogies can be very different (video games and wacky religions) but the relationship can be the same (ie: wacky religion leads to death of a kid, similarly, negative word of mouth leads to the death of a game).
is it a dumb analogy? sure. But it is a poor critique to imply something the person did not have to imply in order for an analogy to work (ie death of a kid is the same as a video game).
fishermage.blogspot.com
Yeah because discussing what happened to a video game is the same as wacky religious people killing their kids. Think before you post this kind of tripe in the future.
Plus, it's not 'scientologists" who say that, it is "christian scientists."
One should get one's wacky religious doctrines straight if one is to use them in an anology
BUT, obviously you don't understand what an analogy is. The elements in analogies can be very different (video games and wacky religions) but the relationship can be the same (ie: wacky religion leads to death of a kid, similarly, negative word of mouth leads to the death of a game).
is it a dumb analogy? sure. But it is a poor critique to imply something the person did not have to imply in order for an analogy to work (ie death of a kid is the same as a video game).
My point was using the death of a child as an analogy is dumb because it creates unnecessary emotional responses and doesn't further either party's argument.
That's not really a concern...SWG will be shut down long before any of your kids are old enough to play.
Plus, it's not 'scientologists" who say that, it is "christian scientists."
One should get one's wacky religious doctrines straight if one is to use them in an anology
BUT, obviously you don't understand what an analogy is. The elements in analogies can be very different (video games and wacky religions) but the relationship can be the same (ie: wacky religion leads to death of a kid, similarly, negative word of mouth leads to the death of a game).
is it a dumb analogy? sure. But it is a poor critique to imply something the person did not have to imply in order for an analogy to work (ie death of a kid is the same as a video game).
My point was using the death of a child as an analogy is dumb because it creates unnecessary emotional responses and doesn't further either party's argument.
Then your point was VERY poorly made.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Plus, it's not 'scientologists" who say that, it is "christian scientists."
One should get one's wacky religious doctrines straight if one is to use them in an anology
BUT, obviously you don't understand what an analogy is. The elements in analogies can be very different (video games and wacky religions) but the relationship can be the same (ie: wacky religion leads to death of a kid, similarly, negative word of mouth leads to the death of a game).
is it a dumb analogy? sure. But it is a poor critique to imply something the person did not have to imply in order for an analogy to work (ie death of a kid is the same as a video game).
My point was using the death of a child as an analogy is dumb because it creates unnecessary emotional responses and doesn't further either party's argument.
Then your point was VERY poorly made.
Nothing wrong with a little passion in life, no? :P
I await your detailed and lengthy explanation of why the NGE did not succeed in its quest to garnish 1 bajillion subscriptions, since the vocal former player base certainly had nothing to do with it in an industry that relies mostly on word of mouth. And everyone who has ever posted on a gaming forum is a whiny nerd at some point. Sticks and stones...
Don't hold your breath. The game sucked before and after NGE. It didn't produce the numbers needed to matter and you don't either. Word of mouth may be a factor but in this casr it's not that big a factor. Too few mouths. You'll notice they didn't stop making games with many of the features of NGE.
I've also noticed that they haven't stopped making cars with many of the features of the '70 Camaro, such as four tires, an engine, a trunk...
Neither your analogy nor mine have anything to do with the conversation. Trying to belittle me only hurts your case. And in this instance, a few mouths made a loud enough noise to shut down SOE's grand plans. How many subscriptions does the NGE garnish? Do you know? Are you willing to bet it is more than it was pre-CU? Because just the fact that the NGE didn't gain massive market share while WoW either lost it or stayed stagnant is a win for us disgruntled vets. That's what they hoped to accomplish with the NGE, and they did not, and we did have something to do with that, unless you can prove otherwise (I'm still waiting). THAT'S what the win is for us, and that's why the NGE is a failure. The announcement of a new Star Wars game is just vindication, that's it.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
That's not really a concern...SWG will be shut down long before any of your kids are old enough to play.
What kind of rating does a game have to have for a twenty-six year old not be allowed to play?
Well....
I have told my daughters they cant date until they are 60.
Granted the 16 yr old didnt let that one slide...but I did try to enforce the rule.
Who is to say what other parents will and will not restrict :P
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
!970 Camaroa were very popular. All the Camaoros were. That's one reason they still make Camaros. Tires trunks and engines are also very popular, thats why cars have them. However they do still make MMOs ,successful ones, with many of the features of NGE. Quod erat demonstrandum it wasn't the features of NGE that were the cause of it's failure. My analogy isn't an analogy at ll. It's logic.
Don't confuse cause with effect. The outcry was an effect of NGE's failure not the cause of it. If NGE had been any good people might have played it. At that point though they could have released a perfect game and it likely would still have failed. The damage had already been done. People were leaving the game in droves.
No one is saying the outcry was the cause of the NGE's failure. they are saying that the outcry was the cause of SWG's failure. The NGE failed because it sucked.
That LED TO the outcry, which is both an effect and then became a cause as well.
The NGE was the removal of 32 professions and replacing them with nine. It was also fraud. No games have done that and succeeded. You have demonstrated nothing.
What "features" are you speaking of? the clicky combat? the only MMO that has used that is Tabula Rasa, and that one isn't doing so well.
What other features are part of any new MMOs and how successful are they? You have demonstrated nothing since you provide no concrete examples.
man people on these forums are maming less and less sense.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I find it hard to claim any sort of a victory. Nov. 2005 SOE forced the NGE upon a player base which, for the most part, said no thanks. Packed their bags and left we lost a significant time investment and a small monetary one.
March 2006 rolls around and BioWare announces they have opened an Austin office to work on an MMO. Myself and many other people across the intertubez deduced that it was going to be a Star Wars MMO. With the development staff that they hired there was a small hope for a new sandbox game which within the year, or so, was gently brushed aside with the details that they were focusing on an MMO version of a BioWare style game. Is that a lose? Not in the least.
You see, back on the official forums, quite a while ago, there was a call (of which I was apart of) for SOE to sell off the game to BioWare or talk with BioWare and LA to see about shifting the game to a different timeline. With the introduction of the Hologrind there was going to be a huge influx of jedi toons. SOE insured this would be the case with the changes to permadeath, TEF etc. This was a complete break with the canon and timeline that Julio Torres was supposed to be ensuring as he was the middleman between Lucas and Sony.
All in all the only people that lost were the gamers, which is how it normally works, when you look at the broader picture. SWG may or may not ever close it's doors. Apart from AC2 there has not really been a BIG name MMO to shut down. SOE most likely never will because they get to say "see how awesome our station pass offering is?". They will never release pre-cu servers as most of the vets are gone. I think there are a helluva lot more of us that have no desire to ever return than will. I think it is pretty evident to anyone out there that Lucas can care less about the Star Wars IP except that it is a cash cow. He hasn't really cared about the universe that he created since Return of the Jedi, Ewoks!?!?!?! WTF? lol. As long as he is getting something from SOE monthly then I am sure he is content.
While I, along with a number of other people, would love to see another sandbox skill based game, the market isn't exactly swinging that way. At least until someone comeso ut with one that is successful. I would wager that the White Wolf/CCP Darkness MMO will as that's what CCP does. BioWare will give us a solid story based MMO set in the Star Wars Universe that we can all sink our teeth into for a time. It will be fun, most likely gorgeous to look at, and may set the bar higher for following mmos.
Gamers lost, SOE lost as they are the pinnacle of what Not to do in the industry, and Lucas lost (and has been losing) because of the treatment of the Star Wars IP. While we may, as vets, claim some small victory because the vast majority of people feel the same as us about the NGE and SOE, all in all everyone lost.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
3 years of money they could've been making if they hadn't screwed up in the first place.
I don't want them to take too long with this one, but I hope they take enough time to make a solid sandbox, instead of a linear piece-o-shit like AOC ended up.