MikeMB. Yep I was there and am still there. I'm a Fellucan pvp'er since launch. But I'm on the good side of it. Never played a red char was always the pk hunter...
Again I think it was a combination of things but it puzzles me (well not really I know it's blind hatred) that the Vet*H8rs don't recall it.
Maybe it was because they were inexperienced mmorpg players and the "I can't win" people but whenever I went to the forums I saw the writing on the wall. There wasn't even rationale to their claims. Some of their claims were self contradicting.
Here's an example; I thought this was Star Wars, it's pokeman online "Everybody" is a CH and if you're not you can't pvp!! NERF CH !!
Now wait- if "everybody" is a CH then wouldn't it be balanced? If everybody is a CH then how could one not be a CH?
Typical I can't win with my profession against (insert) their profession.
It's like pvp'ers without a combat Doc or combat medic in their group. You were doomed. But nerf this or nerf that because you choose to not maximize your fighting power?
Remember the /citywarn, /cityban debacle? I posted on the SOE forums that it was a completely player controlled issue to not get griefed this way. It was very simple. CLONE at an NPC city!!! I got flamed off the boards there that no it was an unstoppable griefing tool, rofl
I remember a day in UO when a friend and guildmate wanted so and so booted from the guild because he was standing at the healers repeat killing new rez's in faction fighting.
He actually told me, So and so killed me like 16 times in a row!! I simply asked why would you repeat res in front of him and why didn't you just go to another healer?
His reply was, it's the closest healer and I wanted to get back ot the fight as fast as I could. I then asked if running to the next healer would have been faster than getting res killed 16 times?
He said , That's not the point, he SHOULDN'T be doing that!!!
Many a Vet has taught a newer player tough lessons in PvP in all games.
But in some cases the so called griefed player WAS in control of the situation.
Nothing you wrote here even remotely bolsters your argument. What players said is irrelevant to the equation: if players said stupid things, and SOE listened to them, that is SOE's fault.
Customers are never to blame for a business failure. That is an absurd position.
I'm not sure if I should call you a demeaning name that implies your lack of intelligence or ..........
So let's take the high road...
Does your opinion then prove the point that the Vet*H8r's had nothing to do with the decline of SWG?
Customers are one of the biggest aspects for a business, survival or failure.
My post was mostly into reply to MikeMB's post about UO.
But honestly anyone who denies these things didn't happen within SWG and other mmorpg forums is well not in touch with reality.
I just can't understand the Vet*H8r contradiction of "WE WON" Our relentless posts on game forums have swayed the gaming industry, but yet the very vocal SWG forum players posts have/had no effect on anything that had to do with game changes....
I would like to state that in no way shape or form that anything I receive from SOE influences my opinion about SWG or their company. Im pretty much a typical average player enjoying the game.
Its never the customers fault and the customer is always right. The down fall lays on the shoulders of SOE and lucas arts alone -poor implimentation of a game and poor management of a game.
Originally posted by Moaky07 If you have to ask Wolf, you either havent been following the vet brds...or you didnt read the thread.
Everything is self evident.
And Fish... for the record...you took a strawman and run with it. I knew if I threw up a distraction, you would miss it entirely.
My stated position was that a section of the vet population has a bad rep. It added to why folks didnt wanna play SWG. You tried to turn it into a "I stand by SOE" or "it doesnt matter cause I said so"....which is not contained in my posts. I gave far majority credit to SOE/LA for their part. I pointed out negatives about a segment of the vet population...and you offered nothing besides how "great" you are. I know I know...there is a special Fish gets a second chance "get out of jail" squared...to the third degree with honors type rule thing. Please quote it for us...then respond to my actual statements this time.
Vanity...it is some individual's downfall. Next time... stick to the post before you put your shoulder out of socket from "patting yourself on the back" or "front... or whatever it is you masters do. And as I said before....have a great day cause I dont think things could be peachier around MMORPG AFAIAC. O and for my long time fan out there, who has made a habit the last 2 yrs of attempting to get me banned...I got last nights warning you submitted rescinded. I see you arent posting today....guess you werent so lucky. Next time ,might wanna not report me, when you are the one throwing specific insults a persons way.
Originally posted by Jatwhal Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Jatwhal MikeMB. Yep I was there and am still there. I'm a Fellucan pvp'er since launch. But I'm on the good side of it. Never played a red char was always the pk hunter... Again I think it was a combination of things but it puzzles me (well not really I know it's blind hatred) that the Vet*H8rs don't recall it. Maybe it was because they were inexperienced mmorpg players and the "I can't win" people but whenever I went to the forums I saw the writing on the wall. There wasn't even rationale to their claims. Some of their claims were self contradicting. Here's an example; I thought this was Star Wars, it's pokeman online "Everybody" is a CH and if you're not you can't pvp!! NERF CH !! Now wait- if "everybody" is a CH then wouldn't it be balanced? If everybody is a CH then how could one not be a CH? Typical I can't win with my profession against (insert) their profession. It's like pvp'ers without a combat Doc or combat medic in their group. You were doomed. But nerf this or nerf that because you choose to not maximize your fighting power? Remember the /citywarn, /cityban debacle? I posted on the SOE forums that it was a completely player controlled issue to not get griefed this way. It was very simple. CLONE at an NPC city!!! I got flamed off the boards there that no it was an unstoppable griefing tool, rofl I remember a day in UO when a friend and guildmate wanted so and so booted from the guild because he was standing at the healers repeat killing new rez's in faction fighting. He actually told me, So and so killed me like 16 times in a row!! I simply asked why would you repeat res in front of him and why didn't you just go to another healer? His reply was, it's the closest healer and I wanted to get back ot the fight as fast as I could. I then asked if running to the next healer would have been faster than getting res killed 16 times? He said , That's not the point, he SHOULDN'T be doing that!!! Many a Vet has taught a newer player tough lessons in PvP in all games. But in some cases the so called griefed player WAS in control of the situation.
Nothing you wrote here even remotely bolsters your argument. What players said is irrelevant to the equation: if players said stupid things, and SOE listened to them, that is SOE's fault. Customers are never to blame for a business failure. That is an absurd position.
I'm not sure if I should call you a demeaning name that implies your lack of intelligence or ..........
So let's take the high road... Does your opinion then prove the point that the Vet*H8r's had nothing to do with the decline of SWG? Customers are one of the biggest aspects for a business, survival or failure. My post was mostly into reply to MikeMB's post about UO. But honestly anyone who denies these things didn't happen within SWG and other mmorpg forums is well not in touch with reality. I just can't understand the Vet*H8r contradiction of "WE WON" Our relentless posts on game forums have swayed the gaming industry, but yet the very vocal SWG forum players posts have/had no effect on anything that had to do with game changes....
man you guys are just not making any sense at all; looks like the Bioware/EA news has caused a lot of folks to truly become unhinged.
Originally posted by Elowyn Its never the customers fault and the customer is always right. The down fall lays on the shoulders of SOE and lucas arts alone -poor implimentation of a game and poor management of a game.
Here we go. Thanks for making sense out of the nonsense being thrown about here!
I enjoyed SWG before the NGE. I did not afterwards, so I do not play anymore. Current players enjoy the game, hence that is why they are still playing. I disagree with how SOE changed the game. But, the way I show my dislike, is I choose to play something else. Get over it people, I have. Don't play SWG if you don't like it, and leave the people who enjoy the game the hell alone.
Well let's blame it on the players, Lucas Arts and accountants.
I honestly have to say that somewhere someone or a group of "non designers" were calling the shots. Anyone who knows George Lucas' history of his tight grip on everything "Star Wars" (rightly so) can easily understand that he was more than likely "at the helm" of SWG.
SWG started off with some of the greatest MMORPG "minds and talent" in the industry. If anyone ever read some of their original plans/goals they can see where they completely compromised or had their design compromised after they left.
The leaving of these devs and the continual in and out of others makes one think of the possible conflicts that were ongoing with LA.
I've played since launch and I could probably find some of the posts from Devs about how rare Jedi were going to be and how hard it was going to be to play them.
Can anyone say character perma-death!!
I think some bean counters went onto the SWG forums and without MMORPG game forum experience saw all the "whiners" posts.
Anyone who has been around knows game forums attract the whiny people who have more forum time than game time.
I honestly believe that SWG attracted a large portion of Star Wars fans that weren't "gamers".
These gamers came to SWG to play Jedi and yes other professions but let's face it the "Master Replicas" is in the lightsaber memorabilia business, WalMart sold tons of lightsabers with the new movies, not blasters and power hammers.
Everyone remember "I want Jedi to be rare ,except for my account?" Sure you do, you all claim to be glorious SWG vets.
That post held so true for the SW fans and even some of the gamer "elitists" who relish accomplishments over other players.
That was the first pressure from the players base....
Most of those posts were about how hard it was to figure out how to become a Jedi. Even though all the press had told them it would be hard they still complained and wanted it "rare, except for their account" while the rest of us were ingame working on it.
Shoot, the game population(me included) was so slow that the devs had to give us hints. That was my first clue they were giving into the whiners.
Then when those people got their Jedi they whined about the finality of their characters life. So there went perma death, then visibility, then open pvp!
Now who's to blame for that? Think rationally now. It started with the player base. " I want Jedi, Jedi is too hard, stop the forced pvp." While we "gamers" were in game trying to avoid perma death, visibility, loving the rarity and hardcoreness of our profession those others were the very vocal populace on the SOE forums getting listened to by ???? The devs? Lucas Arts? SOE?
All the press told us what it was going to be like to play a Jedi yet those types got into the game and then flooded the forums till Jedi got nerfed to crap. Imagine what this game would be like if just those things had stayed in place with Jedi.
Jedi was designed for the "hardcore" and only the hardcore would have stuck with it.
As for the arguement of timeline- give me a break. First off lose your console mentality. This is an MMORPG there is no "end game" there is no time "lock". It's a forward moving world.
I once posted to those same whiners, then delete your Jedi if you are so thoroughly convicted to "canon". Guess how many did?
Well somewhere some non gamer geek said all our models from Everquest and Everquest2 show that players like to have things handed to them. WoW's success proves these theories to be true so we need to change SWG to those styles.
Well we all know how wrong they were now. It sure did drive subscriptions....away
I recently read somewhere on a forum about someone complaining about some game's interface and the reply was "it's the basic WoW interface, the industry standard. It's what all MMORPG's will use.
How boring is that?
Well I tried to play WoW at launch and 2 more times since. I never lasted more than a couple of weeks.
I'm an mmorpg player, not a "console player online"
I've played Ultima online since launch and the only other mmorpg that I've kept playing in 10 years is SWG. *EQ2 doesn't count since I only play that because my wife likes it* rolleyes:
Let's see now players, accountants, LucasArts. Whose missing from this equation? Oh yeah, SOE. It must be everyone's fault but theirs, even though their development team came up with the NGE. Yes, I think I see where you're coming from -_^. I think most of the people that read these forums will also get your drift.
World of Warcraft has never had a combat revamp since the game launched thats what slowed swg's growth to a crawl ,not Jedi. I do believe the whiners had a little to do with it,but all in all it was the fact SOE and Lucas Arts both made bad decisions in the direction of the game,but I am now playing swg again and I am enjoying it and I see new players daily returning to the game its not in a downward spiral anymore its growing slowly.
SOE in no way,shape, or form makes folks act as they do.
They didnt make folks crash servers...or give certain vets a bad rep for their behavior.
Blame em for the NGE or whatever ya want...it still doesnt condone folks actions.
You used to drive me nutz with the twisting stuff...but this fallacies semantics game is quite easy.
Make an argument, and stick to your position.
Now will you please give an excuse for, the segment of the vet population, that a lot of folks appear to despise? That was what my original stance was based on.
Either that or quit blabbling?
For being as smart as you want yourself to appear, you sure are coming off as a moron in this thread.
Now one more time...excuse for the bad segment's behavior or GTFO.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Originally posted by Moaky07 Wow Fish... You finally snapped as well I see. SOE in no way,shape, or form makes folks act as they do. They didnt make folks crash servers...or give certain vets a bad rep for their behavior. Blame em for the NGE or whatever ya want...it still doesnt condone folks actions. You used to drive me nutz with the twisting stuff...but this fallacies semantics game is quite easy. Make an argument, and stick to your position. Now will you please give an excuse for, the segment of the vet population, that a lot of folks appear to despise? That was what my original stance was based on. Either that or quit blabbling? For being as smart as you want yourself to appear, you sure are coming off as a moron in this thread. Now one more time...excuse for the bad segment's behavior or GTFO.
I'm not condoning anyone's actions. I am making no excuses for anyone or anything. What are you talking about?
every day i come to visit this website, there is a new thread on how SWG was the best thing before NGE and that we should burn SOE at the stake. let it go
I have been a loyal SWG player since the first closed beta. Now dont get me wrong there are alot of blame to throw around. SWG's problem comes from everyone... The Devs not comunicating to the CSR's. The CSR's giving into the casual or "whiner" gamer. The Vet players not speaking up louder the the casual gamers. And SOE not listening to anyone on design, content, lackor too many jedi, and ofcourse I hate to admit the LA could do no wrong but they did. Unfortunately its everyones fault.
I still play SWG and I have tried WoW.....I have also tried Lineage2, Earth & Beyond (which I love to this Day), Ascheons Call, Eve Online, LOTR, EQ and EQ2, Guild Wars, CoH/CoV, Ultima and FFXI. All these games have great potential and they are slowly falling down.
WoW is so far a very successful franchise...... but will it fall victum to the same problems as SWG? I doubt it...I dont think Blizzard will allow something that drastic to happen to its baby.....so to speak.
I honestly thought it would have been better if they had left the game as it was before the CURB or the NGE. I would have loved it if the Dev's and the CSR's would have worked together and left the jedi to just a few. I think they should have made it a lottery system. Made it dependent on how many people where on the server and then select a small percentage.....maybe like 1% to 3% of the Populace. I think perma-death and visability was a great thing. I love the fact any would-be Bounty Hunter could take a job from there terminals and come after me. I thought it was a great time.....because it was what jedi were doing at that point in time in the game timeline, and it was what we were suppose to do.
When I first started playing the game I had a blast just being a Master Teras kasi, Master Commando. I wish they had not made it more like WoW...it gave the game a very distinct feel that no other MMO had at the time. I really do miss having to find newbie players to offer to teach them skills just so i could become a master at any given proffession. Grated it was a pain in the backside to hunt for these people but that was just part of the game. All that aside I still enjoy playing even after the time I took away from the game. I stoped playing for a few months when the CURB hit an when the NGE hit., and I took some more time off for the new reformat to the game. I honestly do not like how the game is now but I am still playing because its still Star Wars. It would be nice if they would put just 2 or 3, maybe 4 servers that are just for those who wish the old days...when the game was new and fresh. I personally would play on those servers everyday....I would gladly delete my existing Jedi and other proffessions to play on such a server. I wouldnt mind starting from scratch just for the sake of playing that old way.
Will SOE put servers into the game from just the Vets and people who wish to see the game as it was originally released? Probably not.
But for the Original post....."Who's to blame...."? Everyone was and is to blame about how the game has turned out. I am also including myself in this....being a Veteran player I should have spoken up more....I should have pounded the ground loader.....I should have done something to make myself heard. Alas I did nothing and I complained when it was changed. So...as I said we are all to blame....the Vets....the newbies....the Devs....the CSR's....SOE and lucas arts.....and nothing can be undone. So...we whom continue to play must endure....must except and continue to play. All I have to say is if those of you still playing dont like the game.....quit...stop playing...get rid of your copys...stop posting about how much you hate the way its changed....go away and dont come back. You are making it difficult for those who wish to continue playing and its just pissing the vets off.
I am still playing SWG after 5 years because I am loyal...not to SOE.....but to and for a game that once had beautiful potential and could have been great. You dont have to agree with me.....and I dont care if you dont agree with what I have to say and what i have said...... Just go away if you dont liek the game....i am sure Blizzard would love to have you.
Pleas clarify "Now will you please give an excuse for, the segment of the vet population, that a lot of folks appear to despise? That was what my original stance was based on." as a question as it really isnt a stance.
Otherwise your coming across as a bit manic.
"Obi-Wan Kenobi: We were decieved by a lie; we all were. It appears that SOE is behind everything, including the NGE! After the death of CU, the NGE became their new apprentice."
Originally posted by jrworden1976 Ladys and Gentlmen.
I have been a loyal SWG player since the first closed beta. Now dont get me wrong there are alot of blame to throw around. SWG's problem comes from everyone... The Devs not comunicating to the CSR's. The CSR's giving into the casual or "whiner" gamer. The Vet players not speaking up louder the the casual gamers. And SOE not listening to anyone on design, content, lackor too many jedi, and ofcourse I hate to admit the LA could do no wrong but they did. Unfortunately its everyones fault. I still play SWG and I have tried WoW.....I have also tried Lineage2, Earth & Beyond (which I love to this Day), Ascheons Call, Eve Online, LOTR, EQ and EQ2, Guild Wars, CoH/CoV, Ultima and FFXI. All these games have great potential and they are slowly falling down. WoW is so far a very successful franchise...... but will it fall victum to the same problems as SWG? I doubt it...I dont think Blizzard will allow something that drastic to happen to its baby.....so to speak. I honestly thought it would have been better if they had left the game as it was before the CURB or the NGE. I would have loved it if the Dev's and the CSR's would have worked together and left the jedi to just a few. I think they should have made it a lottery system. Made it dependent on how many people where on the server and then select a small percentage.....maybe like 1% to 3% of the Populace. I think perma-death and visability was a great thing. I love the fact any would-be Bounty Hunter could take a job from there terminals and come after me. I thought it was a great time.....because it was what jedi were doing at that point in time in the game timeline, and it was what we were suppose to do. When I first started playing the game I had a blast just being a Master Teras kasi, Master Commando. I wish they had not made it more like WoW...it gave the game a very distinct feel that no other MMO had at the time. I really do miss having to find newbie players to offer to teach them skills just so i could become a master at any given proffession. Grated it was a pain in the backside to hunt for these people but that was just part of the game. All that aside I still enjoy playing even after the time I took away from the game. I stoped playing for a few months when the CURB hit an when the NGE hit., and I took some more time off for the new reformat to the game. I honestly do not like how the game is now but I am still playing because its still Star Wars. It would be nice if they would put just 2 or 3, maybe 4 servers that are just for those who wish the old days...when the game was new and fresh. I personally would play on those servers everyday....I would gladly delete my existing Jedi and other proffessions to play on such a server. I wouldnt mind starting from scratch just for the sake of playing that old way. Will SOE put servers into the game from just the Vets and people who wish to see the game as it was originally released? Probably not. But for the Original post....."Who's to blame...."? Everyone was and is to blame about how the game has turned out. I am also including myself in this....being a Veteran player I should have spoken up more....I should have pounded the ground loader.....I should have done something to make myself heard. Alas I did nothing and I complained when it was changed. So...as I said we are all to blame....the Vets....the newbies....the Devs....the CSR's....SOE and lucas arts.....and nothing can be undone. So...we whom continue to play must endure....must except and continue to play. All I have to say is if those of you still playing dont like the game.....quit...stop playing...get rid of your copys...stop posting about how much you hate the way its changed....go away and dont come back. You are making it difficult for those who wish to continue playing and its just pissing the vets off. I am still playing SWG after 5 years because I am loyal...not to SOE.....but to and for a game that once had beautiful potential and could have been great. You dont have to agree with me.....and I dont care if you dont agree with what I have to say and what i have said...... Just go away if you dont liek the game....i am sure Blizzard would love to have you.
If everyone is to blame then no one is to blame. How does George Bush work into it? Solar Flares? F. Scott Fitzgerald?
I'm just trying to see how far you are willing to diffuse the blame away from the ones who actually deserve it -- SOE and LA.
I enjoyed SWG before the NGE. I did not afterwards, so I do not play anymore. Current players enjoy the game, hence that is why they are still playing. I disagree with how SOE changed the game. But, the way I show my dislike, is I choose to play something else. Get over it people, I have. Don't play SWG if you don't like it, and leave the people who enjoy the game the hell alone.
I am not a Doctor...nor do I play one on TV.
That said, I really dont believe any of these folks can let go of the hope of getting their "precious" back. This in spite of the evidence that says that Bioware will make a either a WOW/EQish type MMO...or perhaps none at all.
I have seen some even go so far as to try to put BG2 into the "sandbox" category. That game was as linear as they get. You had the option to do extra quests...but it was basically one huge storyline of directed content.
I think it is sinking in that they will not get their pre-whatever back. Their claim to glory the past few yrs has been that "Bioware will bring their pre-cu back".
There are currently posts up stating that classic servers will be up at anytime even.
Forget O snap....or whatever the lastest one is. Words cant describe the posts currently found on MMORPGs general forums. You can almost feel the desperation in their posts. Trying to convince others/themselves that pre-cu will be back...when no one but them liked it in the first place.
This is pure unadultrated "living in denial".
It is a shame some of these folks dont have someone around em to force an intervention.
Not like I am one to talk...I always end up back on these brds reading.
Yet I get entertainment value from their venting.
I couldnt imagine still being mad, almost 3 yrs later, over a video game.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I would like to state that in no way shape or form that anything I receive from SOE influences my opinion about SWG or their company. Im pretty much a typical average player enjoying the game.
If by chance you are naive to all of this....just look at all the recent posts by SWG vets and folks responses to em. There is a segment that folks despise for their actions over the years. It just so happens some of those despised ones post daily here in this very section.
I gave a past history of incidents as well with a section of individuals.
Although if you are here in the vet section, I dont understand you acting so dumb-founded about it all.
Just find one of the posts where they claim Bioware even owes em. Priceless I tell ya.
And you wanna call me manic?
OK...if it helps ya sleep at night.
Dr Phil would have a field-day with the vet forums. That is after he stopped laughing that folks couldnt let a video game go after almost 3 yrs.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Blaming the customers is one of the most absurd notions I have heard. I genuinely hope you guys do not run a professional business with that same type of business acumen. You might end up with similar results that SWG had.
"If you don't take care of your customers somebody else will."
Moaky interesting to learn how the "outside" world thought of what was going on.
And of course the whole post was bait for the Vet*H8rs. In their blindness they can't admit anyone else os to blame but the Vile Evil Empire SOE.
It's refreshing to see that others actually remember how things played out with the populace of the entire player base not just people who only see it their way.
I would like to state that in no way shape or form that anything I receive from SOE influences my opinion about SWG or their company. Im pretty much a typical average player enjoying the game.
Moaky interesting to learn how the "outside" world thought of what was going on. And of course the whole post was bait for the Vet*H8rs. In their blindness they can't admit anyone else os to blame but the Vile Evil Empire SOE. It's refreshing to see that others actually remember how things played out with the populace of the entire player base not just people who only see it their way.
Jatwhal
Dont put words in my mouth...
"The players themselves did indeed help tanrish the image. Yes the far majority falls upon SOE/LA...but their are a faction of players that made the whole smell "rank" to those of us outside the game."
Was the comment I made thank ye very much.
*EDIT* upon re-reading it appears you may not of been trying to be condescending like so many in this forum do if you dont appreciate the precious. My apology if you werent flaming me...just used to it from the folks around here.*EDIT*
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Moaky interesting to learn how the "outside" world thought of what was going on. ___________________________________________________________________ does the line help you out ? And of course the whole post was bait for the Vet*H8rs. In their blindness they can't admit anyone else os to blame but the Vile Evil Empire SOE. It's refreshing to see that others actually remember how things played out with the populace of the entire player base not just people who only see it their way.
Jatwhal
Dont put words in my mouth...
"The players themselves did indeed help tanrish the image. Yes the far majority falls upon SOE/LA...but their are a faction of players that made the whole smell "rank" to those of us outside the game."
Was the comment I made thank ye very much.
Better log another account there Jat.
You misread or I mis typed
My first sentence was a reply to you.
The rest was my writing
I would like to state that in no way shape or form that anything I receive from SOE influences my opinion about SWG or their company. Im pretty much a typical average player enjoying the game.
I would like to state that in no way shape or form that anything I receive from SOE influences my opinion about SWG or their company. Im pretty much a typical average player enjoying the game.
Originally posted by Moaky07 If folks are still around here come the 3 yr mark, I think I will turn us all into Dr Phil.
Them for not letting go...me for not being able to look away. Well that and finding humor in all of it. Course I am still mad they didnt give us a content-laden game to begin with...rather than SIMS in space. So technically this vet has been mad longer than those vets. So that would be me a senior vet vet...with honors and a kick-stand. You say that 5 times in a row fast-like and you win a biscuit
And I'm still annoyed they didn't give us what they said they were gonna -- a sandbox with toys. I'm still waiting for that Holy Grail of MMOs.
Comments
Nothing you wrote here even remotely bolsters your argument. What players said is irrelevant to the equation: if players said stupid things, and SOE listened to them, that is SOE's fault.
Customers are never to blame for a business failure. That is an absurd position.
I'm not sure if I should call you a demeaning name that implies your lack of intelligence or ..........
So let's take the high road...
Does your opinion then prove the point that the Vet*H8r's had nothing to do with the decline of SWG?
Customers are one of the biggest aspects for a business, survival or failure.
My post was mostly into reply to MikeMB's post about UO.
But honestly anyone who denies these things didn't happen within SWG and other mmorpg forums is well not in touch with reality.
I just can't understand the Vet*H8r contradiction of "WE WON" Our relentless posts on game forums have swayed the gaming industry, but yet the very vocal SWG forum players posts have/had no effect on anything that had to do with game changes....
I would like to state that in no way shape or form that anything I receive from SOE influences my opinion about SWG or their company. Im pretty much a typical average player enjoying the game.
Its never the customers fault and the customer is always right. The down fall lays on the shoulders of SOE and lucas arts alone -poor implimentation of a game and poor management of a game.
You're still no making any sense at all.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Nothing you wrote here even remotely bolsters your argument. What players said is irrelevant to the equation: if players said stupid things, and SOE listened to them, that is SOE's fault.
Customers are never to blame for a business failure. That is an absurd position.
I'm not sure if I should call you a demeaning name that implies your lack of intelligence or ..........
So let's take the high road...
Does your opinion then prove the point that the Vet*H8r's had nothing to do with the decline of SWG?
Customers are one of the biggest aspects for a business, survival or failure.
My post was mostly into reply to MikeMB's post about UO.
But honestly anyone who denies these things didn't happen within SWG and other mmorpg forums is well not in touch with reality.
I just can't understand the Vet*H8r contradiction of "WE WON" Our relentless posts on game forums have swayed the gaming industry, but yet the very vocal SWG forum players posts have/had no effect on anything that had to do with game changes....
man you guys are just not making any sense at all; looks like the Bioware/EA news has caused a lot of folks to truly become unhinged.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Here we go. Thanks for making sense out of the nonsense being thrown about here!
fishermage.blogspot.com
I enjoyed SWG before the NGE. I did not afterwards, so I do not play anymore. Current players enjoy the game, hence that is why they are still playing. I disagree with how SOE changed the game. But, the way I show my dislike, is I choose to play something else. Get over it people, I have. Don't play SWG if you don't like it, and leave the people who enjoy the game the hell alone.
Let's see now players, accountants, LucasArts. Whose missing from this equation? Oh yeah, SOE. It must be everyone's fault but theirs, even though their development team came up with the NGE. Yes, I think I see where you're coming from -_^. I think most of the people that read these forums will also get your drift.
World of Warcraft has never had a combat revamp since the game launched thats what slowed swg's growth to a crawl ,not Jedi. I do believe the whiners had a little to do with it,but all in all it was the fact SOE and Lucas Arts both made bad decisions in the direction of the game,but I am now playing swg again and I am enjoying it and I see new players daily returning to the game its not in a downward spiral anymore its growing slowly.
Wow Fish...
You finally snapped as well I see.
SOE in no way,shape, or form makes folks act as they do.
They didnt make folks crash servers...or give certain vets a bad rep for their behavior.
Blame em for the NGE or whatever ya want...it still doesnt condone folks actions.
You used to drive me nutz with the twisting stuff...but this fallacies semantics game is quite easy.
Make an argument, and stick to your position.
Now will you please give an excuse for, the segment of the vet population, that a lot of folks appear to despise? That was what my original stance was based on.
Either that or quit blabbling?
For being as smart as you want yourself to appear, you sure are coming off as a moron in this thread.
Now one more time...excuse for the bad segment's behavior or GTFO.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
fishermage.blogspot.com
every day i come to visit this website, there is a new thread on how SWG was the best thing before NGE and that we should burn SOE at the stake. let it go
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Ladys and Gentlmen.
I have been a loyal SWG player since the first closed beta. Now dont get me wrong there are alot of blame to throw around. SWG's problem comes from everyone... The Devs not comunicating to the CSR's. The CSR's giving into the casual or "whiner" gamer. The Vet players not speaking up louder the the casual gamers. And SOE not listening to anyone on design, content, lackor too many jedi, and ofcourse I hate to admit the LA could do no wrong but they did. Unfortunately its everyones fault.
I still play SWG and I have tried WoW.....I have also tried Lineage2, Earth & Beyond (which I love to this Day), Ascheons Call, Eve Online, LOTR, EQ and EQ2, Guild Wars, CoH/CoV, Ultima and FFXI. All these games have great potential and they are slowly falling down.
WoW is so far a very successful franchise...... but will it fall victum to the same problems as SWG? I doubt it...I dont think Blizzard will allow something that drastic to happen to its baby.....so to speak.
I honestly thought it would have been better if they had left the game as it was before the CURB or the NGE. I would have loved it if the Dev's and the CSR's would have worked together and left the jedi to just a few. I think they should have made it a lottery system. Made it dependent on how many people where on the server and then select a small percentage.....maybe like 1% to 3% of the Populace. I think perma-death and visability was a great thing. I love the fact any would-be Bounty Hunter could take a job from there terminals and come after me. I thought it was a great time.....because it was what jedi were doing at that point in time in the game timeline, and it was what we were suppose to do.
When I first started playing the game I had a blast just being a Master Teras kasi, Master Commando. I wish they had not made it more like WoW...it gave the game a very distinct feel that no other MMO had at the time. I really do miss having to find newbie players to offer to teach them skills just so i could become a master at any given proffession. Grated it was a pain in the backside to hunt for these people but that was just part of the game. All that aside I still enjoy playing even after the time I took away from the game. I stoped playing for a few months when the CURB hit an when the NGE hit., and I took some more time off for the new reformat to the game. I honestly do not like how the game is now but I am still playing because its still Star Wars. It would be nice if they would put just 2 or 3, maybe 4 servers that are just for those who wish the old days...when the game was new and fresh. I personally would play on those servers everyday....I would gladly delete my existing Jedi and other proffessions to play on such a server. I wouldnt mind starting from scratch just for the sake of playing that old way.
Will SOE put servers into the game from just the Vets and people who wish to see the game as it was originally released? Probably not.
But for the Original post....."Who's to blame...."? Everyone was and is to blame about how the game has turned out. I am also including myself in this....being a Veteran player I should have spoken up more....I should have pounded the ground loader.....I should have done something to make myself heard. Alas I did nothing and I complained when it was changed. So...as I said we are all to blame....the Vets....the newbies....the Devs....the CSR's....SOE and lucas arts.....and nothing can be undone. So...we whom continue to play must endure....must except and continue to play. All I have to say is if those of you still playing dont like the game.....quit...stop playing...get rid of your copys...stop posting about how much you hate the way its changed....go away and dont come back. You are making it difficult for those who wish to continue playing and its just pissing the vets off.
I am still playing SWG after 5 years because I am loyal...not to SOE.....but to and for a game that once had beautiful potential and could have been great. You dont have to agree with me.....and I dont care if you dont agree with what I have to say and what i have said...... Just go away if you dont liek the game....i am sure Blizzard would love to have you.
@Moaky07
What? and what?
Pleas clarify "Now will you please give an excuse for, the segment of the vet population, that a lot of folks appear to despise? That was what my original stance was based on." as a question as it really isnt a stance.
Otherwise your coming across as a bit manic.
"Obi-Wan Kenobi: We were decieved by a lie; we all were. It appears that SOE is behind everything, including the NGE! After the death of CU, the NGE became their new apprentice."
If everyone is to blame then no one is to blame. How does George Bush work into it? Solar Flares? F. Scott Fitzgerald?
I'm just trying to see how far you are willing to diffuse the blame away from the ones who actually deserve it -- SOE and LA.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I am not a Doctor...nor do I play one on TV.
That said, I really dont believe any of these folks can let go of the hope of getting their "precious" back. This in spite of the evidence that says that Bioware will make a either a WOW/EQish type MMO...or perhaps none at all.
I have seen some even go so far as to try to put BG2 into the "sandbox" category. That game was as linear as they get. You had the option to do extra quests...but it was basically one huge storyline of directed content.
I think it is sinking in that they will not get their pre-whatever back. Their claim to glory the past few yrs has been that "Bioware will bring their pre-cu back".
There are currently posts up stating that classic servers will be up at anytime even.
Forget O snap....or whatever the lastest one is. Words cant describe the posts currently found on MMORPGs general forums. You can almost feel the desperation in their posts. Trying to convince others/themselves that pre-cu will be back...when no one but them liked it in the first place.
This is pure unadultrated "living in denial".
It is a shame some of these folks dont have someone around em to force an intervention.
Not like I am one to talk...I always end up back on these brds reading.
Yet I get entertainment value from their venting.
I couldnt imagine still being mad, almost 3 yrs later, over a video game.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Fisher,
oh wait are you now saying LA had a part in it?
Wait I thought it was solely the Evil empire SOE?
I would like to state that in no way shape or form that anything I receive from SOE influences my opinion about SWG or their company. Im pretty much a typical average player enjoying the game.
I guess I did come off as a bit manic, but oh well it happens.
Nana...
You appear to be trolling.
If by chance you are naive to all of this....just look at all the recent posts by SWG vets and folks responses to em. There is a segment that folks despise for their actions over the years. It just so happens some of those despised ones post daily here in this very section.
I gave a past history of incidents as well with a section of individuals.
Although if you are here in the vet section, I dont understand you acting so dumb-founded about it all.
Just find one of the posts where they claim Bioware even owes em. Priceless I tell ya.
And you wanna call me manic?
OK...if it helps ya sleep at night.
Dr Phil would have a field-day with the vet forums. That is after he stopped laughing that folks couldnt let a video game go after almost 3 yrs.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
"If you don't take care of your customers somebody else will."
Moaky interesting to learn how the "outside" world thought of what was going on.
And of course the whole post was bait for the Vet*H8rs. In their blindness they can't admit anyone else os to blame but the Vile Evil Empire SOE.
It's refreshing to see that others actually remember how things played out with the populace of the entire player base not just people who only see it their way.
I would like to state that in no way shape or form that anything I receive from SOE influences my opinion about SWG or their company. Im pretty much a typical average player enjoying the game.
LA approved of this nightmare, and thus are partially responsible. I just don't buy the "it came from LA" myth that SOE lovers like to propogate.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Jatwhal
Dont put words in my mouth...
"The players themselves did indeed help tanrish the image. Yes the far majority falls upon SOE/LA...but their are a faction of players that made the whole smell "rank" to those of us outside the game."
Was the comment I made thank ye very much.
*EDIT* upon re-reading it appears you may not of been trying to be condescending like so many in this forum do if you dont appreciate the precious. My apology if you werent flaming me...just used to it from the folks around here.*EDIT*
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Jatwhal
Dont put words in my mouth...
"The players themselves did indeed help tanrish the image. Yes the far majority falls upon SOE/LA...but their are a faction of players that made the whole smell "rank" to those of us outside the game."
Was the comment I made thank ye very much.
Better log another account there Jat.
You misread or I mis typed
My first sentence was a reply to you.
The rest was my writing
I would like to state that in no way shape or form that anything I receive from SOE influences my opinion about SWG or their company. Im pretty much a typical average player enjoying the game.
No worries M8
and yeah lol, flamesuit on full, hah
The precious, still has me roflmaopmp!
I would like to state that in no way shape or form that anything I receive from SOE influences my opinion about SWG or their company. Im pretty much a typical average player enjoying the game.
If folks are still around here come the 3 yr mark, I think I will turn us all into Dr Phil.
Them for not letting go...me for not being able to look away.
Well that and finding humor in all of it.
Course I am still mad they didnt give us a content-laden game to begin with...rather than SIMS in space.
So technically this vet has been mad longer than those vets. So that would be me a senior vet vet...with honors and a kick-stand.
You say that 5 times in a row fast-like and you win a biscuit
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
And I'm still annoyed they didn't give us what they said they were gonna -- a sandbox with toys. I'm still waiting for that Holy Grail of MMOs.
fishermage.blogspot.com