There are no MMOers in wow Warhammer could steal, there are just wowers and wow will be their first and last MMO, after it they'll return to shooters and Diablo.
I watched those videos and I just don't understand why people like that look of characters. It reminded me of lotro toons and thats the main reason I didn't like that game.
I prefer the more cartoon looking feel of WOW to what I just saw. If I wanted more reality in my day I would go outside.
Other than that all I saw was the completely looking safe feel interface of what WOW has offered for some time now. Why would I want to go learn to play another game that looks like a WOW clone, only more realistic? (please, that question is rhetorical meaning its not meant to be answered. I'm sure my play style is quite different from yours.)
_____________________________ If you are insulted by being called a fanboi it's a good bet that you are one
I watched those videos and I just don't understand why people like that look of characters. It reminded me of lotro toons and thats the main reason I didn't like that game. I prefer the more cartoon looking feel of WOW to what I just saw. If I wanted more reality in my day I would go outside. Other than that all I saw was the completely looking safe feel interface of what WOW has offered for some time now. Why would I want to go learn to play another game that looks like a WOW clone, only more realistic? (please, that question is rhetorical meaning its not meant to be answered. I'm sure my play style is quite different from yours.)
Please stay in WoW then. We don't want you in our game. If you had any sense at all you would do research, but I guess you just can't reason with a WoW fanboy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
I watched those videos and I just don't understand why people like that look of characters. It reminded me of lotro toons and thats the main reason I didn't like that game. I prefer the more cartoon looking feel of WOW to what I just saw. If I wanted more reality in my day I would go outside. Other than that all I saw was the completely looking safe feel interface of what WOW has offered for some time now. Why would I want to go learn to play another game that looks like a WOW clone, only more realistic? (please, that question is rhetorical meaning its not meant to be answered. I'm sure my play style is quite different from yours.)
Please stay in WoW then. We don't want you in our game. If you had any sense at all you would do research, but I guess you just can't reason with a WoW fanboy.
I watched those videos and I just don't understand why people like that look of characters. It reminded me of lotro toons and thats the main reason I didn't like that game. I prefer the more cartoon looking feel of WOW to what I just saw. If I wanted more reality in my day I would go outside. Other than that all I saw was the completely looking safe feel interface of what WOW has offered for some time now. Why would I want to go learn to play another game that looks like a WOW clone, only more realistic? (please, that question is rhetorical meaning its not meant to be answered. I'm sure my play style is quite different from yours.)
Please stay in WoW then. We don't want you in our game. If you had any sense at all you would do research, but I guess you just can't reason with a WoW fanboy.
Capn.... we've known that for some time now
I know, but I've always had just a little tiny hope...because I started out as a WoW fanboy. This one was just stupid. I don't even think he looked at the date of the OP.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
"I been pvping for 4 hours now? wtf! wheredid that time go?"
That happened to me saturday night. Wife and kid were in bed, i started at 10pm and was up till 2am...had to pull myself away. There is no game since SWG which has led me to do that. Nor has there been a game which you actually feel a sense of comradery for your fellow warrior.
This game is going to rock...just wish it had a Star Wars theme to it But i am DEFINITELY buying this till KOTOR comes out to fill my Star Wars ache. And who knows...depending on the pvp in kotor, i might keep both. The pvp/rvr in WAR is unsurpassed so far.
The look of this games is sweet. However there are too many Wow Maniacs out there for anygame to kill it. Some member might switch over, but nothing will kill wow but time.
When was the last time you can honestly say "I been pvping for 4 hours now? wtf! wheredid that time go?" That happened to me saturday night. Wife and kid were in bed, i started at 10pm and was up till 2am...had to pull myself away. There is no game since SWG which has led me to do that. Nor has there been a game which you actually feel a sense of comradery for your fellow warrior. This game is going to rock...just wish it had a Star Wars theme to it But i am DEFINITELY buying this till KOTOR comes out to fill my Star Wars ache. And who knows...depending on the pvp in kotor, i might keep both. The pvp/rvr in WAR is unsurpassed so far.
1) There have been PLENTY of MMOs "which you actually feel a sense of comradery for your fellow warrior".
2) The PvP in WAR has already been surpassed. Please see DAoC.
The look of this games is sweet. However there are too many Wow Maniacs out there for anygame to kill it. Some member might switch over, but nothing will kill wow but time.
Could be... but approximately 3/4 of the people that I know who play WoW will buy WAR. I cannot vouch for the whole WoW population but that's the situation "on the ground" from my perspective.
Of the same population close to me about 1/2 say they'll get WoTLK to see what's it about, but the other half start foaming at the mouth at very the mention of it, regardless whether they're into WAR or not.
The look of this games is sweet. However there are too many Wow Maniacs out there for anygame to kill it. Some member might switch over, but nothing will kill wow but time.
Could be... but approximately 3/4 of the people that I know who play WoW will buy WAR. I cannot vouch for the whole WoW population but that's the situation "on the ground" from my perspective.
Of the same population close to me about 1/2 say they'll get WoTLK to see what's it about, but the other half start foaming at the mouth at very the mention of it, regardless whether they're into WAR or not.
I'm sure there are lots of people that play WOW that will get it but at least half of them that do get it wont stay there. WOW is like a drug, its real addictive to some people.
Personally I don't really care for WOW and am really looking forward to WAR.
War has little to offer for the hardcore PvP player.
It is sad because I really had hoped for a second good MMO game with a PvP base.
Reason:
The movement and animation in the WAR fights are soooo slow and unnatural: it is really painful.
Mythic used the same team that animated the DAoC avatars and ... it just shows.
Now I will have tons of comments on this.
But I know I am right. I checked with PvP die hards and they all make the same comment:
Have you EVER seen a running figure like the avatars in WAR. Do they have another gravity or something?
The fights are too sluggish, too slow, too static and have no dynamic whatsoever..
HAve you seen that WAR "fight" at the closed gate of the keep??? If you compare this "RvR" with WOW, you know exaclty WAR doesn't have a chance to get to a million subs.
A PvP game with no decent PvP "thrill" is as dead as a rock these days.
If wow dies, the killers will be Blizzard, if they continues with do no updates with the textures it will die sooner or later. But saying WAR has good graphics is to much, it is desent but not good and Mythics cut of features is even worse than Funcoms so the gameplay has to be really awesome to takes wows playerbase.
It will probably take like half a mill however but if any game have a chanse to kill wow, the only one I can think of is Guildwars 2. No monthly fee, the first game sold more than 5 millions and this one is an open MMO. Also it is programmed by the team that worked on Warcraft 3.
But wows biggest strenght is its art, the concept art is really beutiful. WARs biggest strenght is its world but both LOTRO and AoC have really good worlds too, its not enough to beat wow. That not saying that WAR will be a failure, but I am pissed about all the cuts. Still, if it just gets half a mill its future is bright.
Could be... but approximately 3/4 of the people that I know who play WoW will buy WAR. I cannot vouch for the whole WoW population but that's the situation "on the ground" from my perspective. Of the same population close to me about 1/2 say they'll get WoTLK to see what's it about, but the other half start foaming at the mouth at very the mention of it, regardless whether they're into WAR or not.
This will be the situation...
90% of WOW players and EX WOW players will come back to WotlK to see what's in it.
WotLK will start with 5 million copies sold in its first two months.
WAR will sell in the same numbers as Conan did (Conan still had 200 K MORE beta apllies than WAR did), meaning 700 K in one month.
People will compare and most will stumble over the very odd and painful slow PvP fights of WAR.
Then the friends will come in and drag you over to the end content of WotLK, then after 3 months the next Wow killer will bite the dust like all the others did in these last 3 years ....
-------
End situation: 12 million Wow players and 400K (IF the game doesn't have any major bugs) for WAR.
While ALL WAR fans will tell you they killed Wow on the forums, the other 12 million Wow fans will down the end bosses of raids.
MOST of the people leaving WAR will be because of its very bad animated and too slow fights.
A very stupud mistake which will cost them dearly (of couse we haven't even discussed the balancing of classes which was also very bad in DAoC).
LOL good ol' Vick is back. If you came out from under you bridge in the past few days, you'd already know by now that a lot of people are breaking the NDA by releasing videos. And you'd also know, they're enjoying the game A LOT. You need to catch up to today, look at some of the leaked videos, they're not hard to find. Man, I already countered all these points about animations. There's plenty of PvPing thrill, you're just another stinky troll than needs to go back under his bridge and start calling out riddles where you belong. I'm marking that EXACT quote in notepad, and when/if the game gets above 1 million subs I'm going to make a topic specifically about you saying it won't. You're a troll, nothing more. If you don't like the game, don't play it. Go back to WoW and play "who has the best gear" PvP. Mythic isn't going to cry over the loss of a few trolls, that's why they're not a race in the game.
WAR fights are too slow, static and without "life".
I tell you what my son said today: you are NOT fighting with your WAR avatar. I "look at him", I "see him" but he is NOT me.
In Wow I FIGHT with my character, not some puppet with a stick in his ass.
Is this trolling? No it is what we see at the moment.
One more question to open the "eyes".
How much gravity is there in the Warhammer universe ? Do YOU walk and run that way ?
I know I don't, so perhaps this explains what people feel at the moment. This and the speed has to double at least to convince people they are doing a fight.
Perhaps you should look at the Olympics instead to look at some real running and boxing fights.
War has little to offer for the hardcore PvP player. It is sad because I really had hoped for a second good MMO game with a PvP base. Reason: The movement and animation in the WAR fights are soooo slow and unnatural: it is really painful. Mythic used the same team that animated the DAoC avatars and ... it just shows. Now I will have tons of comments on this. But I know I am right. I checked with PvP die hards and they all make the same comment: Have you EVER seen a running figure like the avatars in WAR. Do they have another gravity or something? The fights are too sluggish, too slow, too static and have no dynamic whatsoever.. HAve you seen that WAR "fight" at the closed gate of the keep??? If you compare this "RvR" with WOW, you know exaclty WAR doesn't have a chance to get to a million subs. A PvP game with no decent PvP "thrill" is as dead as a rock these days.
I haven't laughed this hard in a while. Thanks vicksburg.
WAR fights are too slow, static and without "life". I tell you what my son said today: you are NOT fighting with your WAR avatar. I "look at him", I "see him" but he is NOT me. In Wow I FIGHT with my character, not some puppet with a stick in his ass. Is this trolling? No it is what we see at the moment. One more question to open the "eyes". How much gravity is there in the Warhammer universe ? Do YOU walk and run that way ? I know I don't, so perhaps this explains what people feel at the moment. This and the speed has to double at least to convince people they are doing a fight. Perhaps you should look at the Olympics instead to look at some real running and boxing fights.
Ok. I'm going to reply to your post and counter your arguments one last time, I've already countered these exact arguments twice. I know, I know, it's a uphill battle fighting with a troll, but I want to try.
You say it's slow, static, and without "life". I can't convince you otherwise. I can't post NDA breaking material, if you don't want to take my word for it, you're going to have to look for yourself. I play(ed) WoW, and really, I don't see anything innovating about WoW's combat. Mythic has made it where you can't auto attack and go grab a soda, you HAVE to use your abilities. In WoW, you can auto attack and grab a soda, and not have to use a single ability.
In WoW, you're NOT your character. You don't do anything but smash buttons. And really, you didn't play WoW at launch or beta. I did, and they looked just as slow, if not slower, than WARs animations. You have your mind set on hating the game obviously, and that the game is lifeless, so nothing I say can convince you otherwise..
Gravity. This is a COMPLETE joke, and just proves you're trolling. Do YOU go up and fight over a keep every day, killing others? Do YOU ride around on a bear/horse/ostrich/raptor every day? No, you don't. This is a game, bud. Things are different in a game world than in real life, counting gravity. This is a pathetic excuse for trashing the game, even you can do better than that.
Comparing real life and a video game is a complete joke, period. I play MMOs to get away from real life stress and limitations, not bring them with me.
It is trolling. It's WHAT you see, which you obviously need to get your eyes checked.
Again, your a troll and nothing else. Go back under your bridge and call out riddles, you're not of any use here.
So if I don't like the slow and very static fights I am a troll, right ?
Gravity? You mean YOU walk and run like that? It happens the feet of these avatars are touching the ground every 1 second or something. If you'd run like that you're on the moon.
Ever watched another game except DAoC. Oh but you played Wow. OK
And what did you say? Wow's orginal animations were "slower" ....than todays ....? !?!
---
One advice: just step back one meter. Don't think I am a troll but think about what I said.
Look at it. Compare it with other games and then repost.
You accuse me of "hating" a non published game. But you like to love this game so much you can't really see these obvious timings... ?
relax and compare.... it's the only thing to evaluate.
I also do not believe that animations will be on par with WoW at release (they are very good already today though). And that will put off some players. However, your no substance rant about the game without any references makes it closer to a troll post.
Do I believe that WAR will kill WoW? No. Do I believe that based on the closed beta (which I am in) that WAR will be a good, complete game with alot more to offer to PvPers than WoW at release? Hell yes.
To which I say, excellent. WAR can have all the PVPers. No bitterness or venom for ya, but I can say it will be nice to see many of you go, because well, you are too damn good at it for us casuals to have a chance in Hell.
AND more likely than not, Mythic will polish the animations before launch. They're kind of like placeholders right now while they're testing core mechanics. Vicksburg, not liking the combat doesn't make you a troll. What makes you a troll is the fact you keep trying to say it's boring, slow, and unexciting.
Yes, it may look that way to you and to other people, but you haven't tried it so it could be totally different. From my understanding it requires you to pay attention in a fight to your position, action points, and other factors and to, as another poster said, actually be there instead of getting a drink and letting the auto-attack do all the work.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
I can't believe arguments like this even exist. FACT - WAR is the only good MMORPG coming out for the next 2 years FACT - WAR will be good FACT - WAR is a great place to go for people who play WoW and don't raid FACT - WAR is a competitive and addicting game with incentive Don't like it? We don't care. Wait till it comes out and look at the reviews on metacritic of it. Till then it's only speculation.
I agree 100% with ya but there's some speech I'm confused you said *will* then you said *is* so did you play beta? I have and I'm loving it but if you haven't...well then I don't know how you said what you did. I see you said speculation but I still ponder...
Comments
There are no MMOers in wow Warhammer could steal, there are just wowers and wow will be their first and last MMO, after it they'll return to shooters and Diablo.
I watched those videos and I just don't understand why people like that look of characters. It reminded me of lotro toons and thats the main reason I didn't like that game.
I prefer the more cartoon looking feel of WOW to what I just saw. If I wanted more reality in my day I would go outside.
Other than that all I saw was the completely looking safe feel interface of what WOW has offered for some time now. Why would I want to go learn to play another game that looks like a WOW clone, only more realistic? (please, that question is rhetorical meaning its not meant to be answered. I'm sure my play style is quite different from yours.)
_____________________________
If you are insulted by being called a fanboi it's a good bet that you are one
Please stay in WoW then. We don't want you in our game. If you had any sense at all you would do research, but I guess you just can't reason with a WoW fanboy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Please stay in WoW then. We don't want you in our game. If you had any sense at all you would do research, but I guess you just can't reason with a WoW fanboy.
Capn.... we've known that for some time now
Please stay in WoW then. We don't want you in our game. If you had any sense at all you would do research, but I guess you just can't reason with a WoW fanboy.
Capn.... we've known that for some time now
I know, but I've always had just a little tiny hope...because I started out as a WoW fanboy. This one was just stupid. I don't even think he looked at the date of the OP.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
WAR is a wow killer...........
for me anyways.
When was the last time you can honestly say
"I been pvping for 4 hours now? wtf! wheredid that time go?"
That happened to me saturday night. Wife and kid were in bed, i started at 10pm and was up till 2am...had to pull myself away. There is no game since SWG which has led me to do that. Nor has there been a game which you actually feel a sense of comradery for your fellow warrior.
This game is going to rock...just wish it had a Star Wars theme to it
But i am DEFINITELY buying this till KOTOR comes out to fill my Star Wars ache. And who knows...depending on the pvp in kotor, i might keep both. The pvp/rvr in WAR is unsurpassed so far.
The look of this games is sweet. However there are too many Wow Maniacs out there for anygame to kill it. Some member might switch over, but nothing will kill wow but time.
1) There have been PLENTY of MMOs "which you actually feel a sense of comradery for your fellow warrior".
2) The PvP in WAR has already been surpassed. Please see DAoC.
Could be... but approximately 3/4 of the people that I know who play WoW will buy WAR. I cannot vouch for the whole WoW population but that's the situation "on the ground" from my perspective.
Of the same population close to me about 1/2 say they'll get WoTLK to see what's it about, but the other half start foaming at the mouth at very the mention of it, regardless whether they're into WAR or not.
Could be... but approximately 3/4 of the people that I know who play WoW will buy WAR. I cannot vouch for the whole WoW population but that's the situation "on the ground" from my perspective.
Of the same population close to me about 1/2 say they'll get WoTLK to see what's it about, but the other half start foaming at the mouth at very the mention of it, regardless whether they're into WAR or not.
I'm sure there are lots of people that play WOW that will get it but at least half of them that do get it wont stay there. WOW is like a drug, its real addictive to some people.
Personally I don't really care for WOW and am really looking forward to WAR.
War has little to offer for the hardcore PvP player.
It is sad because I really had hoped for a second good MMO game with a PvP base.
Reason:
The movement and animation in the WAR fights are soooo slow and unnatural: it is really painful.
Mythic used the same team that animated the DAoC avatars and ... it just shows.
Now I will have tons of comments on this.
But I know I am right. I checked with PvP die hards and they all make the same comment:
Have you EVER seen a running figure like the avatars in WAR. Do they have another gravity or something?
The fights are too sluggish, too slow, too static and have no dynamic whatsoever..
HAve you seen that WAR "fight" at the closed gate of the keep??? If you compare this "RvR" with WOW, you know exaclty WAR doesn't have a chance to get to a million subs.
A PvP game with no decent PvP "thrill" is as dead as a rock these days.
If wow dies, the killers will be Blizzard, if they continues with do no updates with the textures it will die sooner or later. But saying WAR has good graphics is to much, it is desent but not good and Mythics cut of features is even worse than Funcoms so the gameplay has to be really awesome to takes wows playerbase.
It will probably take like half a mill however but if any game have a chanse to kill wow, the only one I can think of is Guildwars 2. No monthly fee, the first game sold more than 5 millions and this one is an open MMO. Also it is programmed by the team that worked on Warcraft 3.
But wows biggest strenght is its art, the concept art is really beutiful. WARs biggest strenght is its world but both LOTRO and AoC have really good worlds too, its not enough to beat wow. That not saying that WAR will be a failure, but I am pissed about all the cuts. Still, if it just gets half a mill its future is bright.
This will be the situation...
90% of WOW players and EX WOW players will come back to WotlK to see what's in it.
WotLK will start with 5 million copies sold in its first two months.
WAR will sell in the same numbers as Conan did (Conan still had 200 K MORE beta apllies than WAR did), meaning 700 K in one month.
People will compare and most will stumble over the very odd and painful slow PvP fights of WAR.
Then the friends will come in and drag you over to the end content of WotLK, then after 3 months the next Wow killer will bite the dust like all the others did in these last 3 years ....
-------
End situation: 12 million Wow players and 400K (IF the game doesn't have any major bugs) for WAR.
While ALL WAR fans will tell you they killed Wow on the forums, the other 12 million Wow fans will down the end bosses of raids.
MOST of the people leaving WAR will be because of its very bad animated and too slow fights.
A very stupud mistake which will cost them dearly (of couse we haven't even discussed the balancing of classes which was also very bad in DAoC).
WAR fights are too slow, static and without "life".
I tell you what my son said today: you are NOT fighting with your WAR avatar. I "look at him", I "see him" but he is NOT me.
In Wow I FIGHT with my character, not some puppet with a stick in his ass.
Is this trolling? No it is what we see at the moment.
One more question to open the "eyes".
How much gravity is there in the Warhammer universe ? Do YOU walk and run that way ?
I know I don't, so perhaps this explains what people feel at the moment. This and the speed has to double at least to convince people they are doing a fight.
Perhaps you should look at the Olympics instead to look at some real running and boxing fights.
I haven't laughed this hard in a while. Thanks vicksburg.
That was one hell of a joke post.
Ok. I'm going to reply to your post and counter your arguments one last time, I've already countered these exact arguments twice. I know, I know, it's a uphill battle fighting with a troll, but I want to try.
You say it's slow, static, and without "life". I can't convince you otherwise. I can't post NDA breaking material, if you don't want to take my word for it, you're going to have to look for yourself. I play(ed) WoW, and really, I don't see anything innovating about WoW's combat. Mythic has made it where you can't auto attack and go grab a soda, you HAVE to use your abilities. In WoW, you can auto attack and grab a soda, and not have to use a single ability.
In WoW, you're NOT your character. You don't do anything but smash buttons. And really, you didn't play WoW at launch or beta. I did, and they looked just as slow, if not slower, than WARs animations. You have your mind set on hating the game obviously, and that the game is lifeless, so nothing I say can convince you otherwise..
Gravity. This is a COMPLETE joke, and just proves you're trolling. Do YOU go up and fight over a keep every day, killing others? Do YOU ride around on a bear/horse/ostrich/raptor every day? No, you don't. This is a game, bud. Things are different in a game world than in real life, counting gravity. This is a pathetic excuse for trashing the game, even you can do better than that.
Comparing real life and a video game is a complete joke, period. I play MMOs to get away from real life stress and limitations, not bring them with me.
It is trolling. It's WHAT you see, which you obviously need to get your eyes checked.
Again, your a troll and nothing else. Go back under your bridge and call out riddles, you're not of any use here.
So if I don't like the slow and very static fights I am a troll, right ?
Gravity? You mean YOU walk and run like that? It happens the feet of these avatars are touching the ground every 1 second or something. If you'd run like that you're on the moon.
Ever watched another game except DAoC. Oh but you played Wow. OK
And what did you say? Wow's orginal animations were "slower" ....than todays ....? !?!
---
One advice: just step back one meter. Don't think I am a troll but think about what I said.
Look at it. Compare it with other games and then repost.
You accuse me of "hating" a non published game. But you like to love this game so much you can't really see these obvious timings... ?
relax and compare.... it's the only thing to evaluate.
@Vicksburg:
I also do not believe that animations will be on par with WoW at release (they are very good already today though). And that will put off some players. However, your no substance rant about the game without any references makes it closer to a troll post.
Do I believe that WAR will kill WoW? No. Do I believe that based on the closed beta (which I am in) that WAR will be a good, complete game with alot more to offer to PvPers than WoW at release? Hell yes.
To which I say, excellent. WAR can have all the PVPers. No bitterness or venom for ya, but I can say it will be nice to see many of you go, because well, you are too damn good at it for us casuals to have a chance in Hell.
AND more likely than not, Mythic will polish the animations before launch. They're kind of like placeholders right now while they're testing core mechanics. Vicksburg, not liking the combat doesn't make you a troll. What makes you a troll is the fact you keep trying to say it's boring, slow, and unexciting.
Yes, it may look that way to you and to other people, but you haven't tried it so it could be totally different. From my understanding it requires you to pay attention in a fight to your position, action points, and other factors and to, as another poster said, actually be there instead of getting a drink and letting the auto-attack do all the work.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
I can't believe arguments like this even exist.
FACT - WAR is the only good MMORPG coming out for the next 2 years
FACT - WAR will be good
FACT - WAR is a great place to go for people who play WoW and don't raid
FACT - WAR is a competitive and addicting game with incentive
Don't like it? We don't care. Wait till it comes out and look at the reviews on metacritic of it. Till then it's only speculation.
I agree 100% with ya but there's some speech I'm confused you said *will* then you said *is* so did you play beta? I have and I'm loving it but if you haven't...well then I don't know how you said what you did. I see you said speculation but I still ponder...