I play LoTRO as it is, because it's a solid MMO, with a great story, great PVE and BEAUTIFUL graphics and art. This is a time filler for me, I just cancelled my SOE all access account and AoC, and WoW a while back. So I'm playing LoTRO until I get bored or until something better comes out. What I would have loved to see would have been the choice to play the army of Sauron. Roll an Urak-hai (sp) and go smash some filthy hobbitses...
Ok I feel like Im getting abit repetetive...
You can roll an Uruk (war-leader or Blackarrow) and go out and kill hobbits (I love it too )
They even have a small village in the Ettens so you can go there and kill them all night long..
and to Draccan... Im pretty happy that Turbine didnt let the PvP people who dont give a shit about the lore ruin the IP created by Tolkien... play Lotr:conquest when it comes out if you dont care about the lore and just want to kill other people (not a MMO thou) ... and if you read through this thread you will see perfect reasons why RvR isnt perfect for this IP...
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
I honestly would rather pick up Lotro (never tried it) ******* Monster Play is not a chance to develop and grow a character from scratch. And it is not real open pvp.
I can feel a slight contradiction here... a glitch in the matrix (called: credibility?
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Its been confirmed by the devs. There is no new pvmp area in the MOM expansion. Just tweaks to the existing ettenmoors and vague references to possibly a new pvmp area some time well beyond the MoM expansion. All us full time creeps just saved cash. Theres no need to buy the expansion unless you have to for the creep autolevel. If thats the case I can wait till MoM's in the discount bin. edit add link. http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=151423
I stand corrected. I am a big boy and can admit when i am wrong. Just cause there is no new PvMP area with the release of the expansion doesn't meen they won't later put one in.
I have the impression that the moors are being expanded somehow. They haven't told us anything concrete, but they have made references to something that sounds a lot like the relic and realm bonus system in DAoC.
I also don't think that LoTRO is a good game for someone that only wants to PvP by any stretch. It has great PvP, and what's there is a ton of fun. But there's only one zone and only so much to do. Even on my play schedule I doubt it would be more than a few months of content if that's all I did.
LoTRO is about having a diversity of activities to choose from. If you focus on one exclusively (be it PvP, raiding, crafting, or whatever) and don't care about anything else, you are going to burn through your subset of the content pretty quickly. For example, I've been pretty much "done" with crafting on my main for 6 months (though I do still need to grind out one more level of Foreschel faction for recipes), so I moved on to other activities.
I wouldn't really recommend LoTRO to someone that only wants to craft, only wants to raid, or only wants to PvP, personally. All of those systems are solid, but none are meant to be an entire game unto themselves. I wonder if this is explaining some of the difference between folks that "get" LoTRO and those that find it lacking.
Of course there's also folks that play 5+ hours a day for weeks or months on end. No linear MMO is really going to keep pace with someone that plays like that, unless it's been out for years or they really enjoy alts. I don't envy someone that burns through the game like popcorn, I would imagine you'd miss out on a lot of what I enjoy about it. Plus you'd be twiddling your thumbs in between major updates (if you even stuck around long enough to see them).
I do long hours on the weekends but can barely log during the week. I also enjoy alts a lot (crafting alt army ftw!). I will likely never run out of content with my playstyle.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
'If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.' Uh, 'real' PvP is about ganking in the open. It's about being given a free hand to hurt a member of another faction who stumbles across your path, any time, anywhere. Also, people asserting that the conclusion of LotR being written in stone, thusly justifying the lack of 'real' PvP, are full of it. Sure, Sauron is going to ultimately lose, but that doesn't mean that he didn't prevail occasionally. Certainly, he won some battles outside the core storylines featured in the books. If he didn't, than why is everyone terrified of him? If Sauron and his armies didn't occasionally roll over anyone, why is everyone (including Gandalf) afraid to even say his name? I know that if my arch nemesis had gone 0 for his last 15,634 battles, I wouldn't exactly be quaking in my boots, even if I was facing 3-to-1 or 5-to-1 or whatever odds. Let's look at SWG as an example. SWG had a very open PvP system. It also has a written-in-stone outcome for the Empire. Did that stop Imperial players from trying to win, despite the fact that their ultimate fate is pretty much locked in? Nope, it didn't. LotR's conclusion is most definitely a final and ultimate victory for Gondor and the Fellowship, but I seriously doubt that would stop players from launching, say, a hundred-warg assault on Bree, or a Goblin attack on Rivendel. What you fail to acknowledge (or maybe just choose to ignore) is that Turbine has already violated the lore in so many ways that my guess is that Tolkien, glaring down from heaven, is already quite affronted. <Mod edit>
'If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.' Uh, 'real' PvP is about ganking in the open. It's about being given a free hand to hurt a member of another faction who stumbles across your path, any time, anywhere. Also, people asserting that the conclusion of LotR being written in stone, thusly justifying the lack of 'real' PvP, are full of it. Sure, Sauron is going to ultimately lose, but that doesn't mean that he didn't prevail occasionally. Certainly, he won some battles outside the core storylines featured in the books. If he didn't, than why is everyone terrified of him? If Sauron and his armies didn't occasionally roll over anyone, why is everyone (including Gandalf) afraid to even say his name? I know that if my arch nemesis had gone 0 for his last 15,634 battles, I wouldn't exactly be quaking in my boots, even if I was facing 3-to-1 or 5-to-1 or whatever odds. Let's look at SWG as an example. SWG had a very open PvP system. It also has a written-in-stone outcome for the Empire. Did that stop Imperial players from trying to win, despite the fact that their ultimate fate is pretty much locked in? Nope, it didn't. LotR's conclusion is most definitely a final and ultimate victory for Gondor and the Fellowship, but I seriously doubt that would stop players from launching, say, a hundred-warg assault on Bree, or a Goblin attack on Rivendel. What you fail to acknowledge (or maybe just choose to ignore) is that Turbine has already violated the lore in so many ways that my guess is that Tolkien, glaring down from heaven, is already quite affronted. <Mod edit>
First off calling people frightened carebears shows how immature you are. Second the reason why everyone is so scared and frightened of sauron is cause back at the end of the second age he almost took over middle earth. It was a stroke of luck that isildur cut the one ring from his hand and banished him. If you knew anything about the lore you would know this. For these reasons gandalf and many who lived at that time fear what can happen if sauron regained the one ring. It isn't that he has openly won battles at the time of the war of the ring. It is that once he almost conquered middle earth and had steam rolled over everyone then and they all fear it happening again.
You my friend are pathetic if you think that a game proves your manhood or that one is a coward or not. Just cause a person doesn't like to PVP doesn't meen they are a coward. It is s freakin game and not everyone likes to play the same way. I prefer PVE but i can stand my ground with the best in PVP. Does that make me a coward? No. It just meens that i prefer a differant playstyle. Grow a pair. LOL i have had a pair alot longer than you and i am not afriad to use them. A game is not a place to judge if a person has a pair or not. Your opinion has been noted and is nothing more than your opinion. Saying it is the real truth doesn't make it so.
Its been confirmed by the devs. There is no new pvmp area in the MOM expansion. Just tweaks to the existing ettenmoors and vague references to possibly a new pvmp area some time well beyond the MoM expansion. All us full time creeps just saved cash. Theres no need to buy the expansion unless you have to for the creep autolevel. If thats the case I can wait till MoM's in the discount bin. edit add link. http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=151423
Ouch. That really sucks. Maybe they'll do something like they did with Delving of Fror, and add another instance within Ettenmoors.
I'm wondering why someone play LotRO as a full time creep though. You're really missing out on the rest of the game.
Cheers Observer,
I haven't missed the rest of the game. Hehe you could even say, I've see the whole game and thats probably why I'm a full time creep. I have the lvl50's, the gm crafters, tons of rep, 4/6 rift with dkp in bank to finish it up if I cared too. I never last more than a minute or two on the pve side and its straight back to creep mp. Its been that way after the first month the game went live, lvl the toon then parked him unless the kinship would drag me kicking and screamin from the ettens.
Although as a full time creep I'm the first to admit the Ettens has gotten very stale and just as static as the rest of the game. Thats why I'm disappointed theres no expansion of zones. As far as what the devs have to say on what their changes will be to tweak the Ettens. Lots of hot air and marketing. After all its mvmp. Lotro doesnt do anything in the Ettens unless their hand is forced. This last book creeps got emotes and both sides diminsihing returns. Something they said they would look into and institute back when it all went live on Arwen. So 18 months later is appears. The big ettens expansion the Delving from the creep prespective is just a barely used underground dead zone for forced pve for pot mats.
So while I'm grateful the devs shot straight on this,informing us all that once again pve is their priority and mvmp players stay back burner. Thats cool. My fun money will sit on the sidelines for Warhammer and anything Lotro will be just to log and chat up my old creep buddies.
The lore is all but set for a conflict between the Good and the Evil so why dont they introduce Orcs, Urukhais, Goblins and "Men of the South" as playable evil races and let us fight for control of Middle Earth? It seems so obvious...
Please define what "real" PvP is.
If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.
Speaking of AoC, is it "real" PvP, since the majority of their PvP servers are FFA?
At the core "actual" PvP pits player characters versus player characters. Not PC's versus PC's in control of an NPC that is not their own personal avatar.
REAL PvP is FFA without any restrictions in the actual game world.
AoC is the closest new MMO that has actual real pvp. However, the instanced zones really kill that feel. Also, the fact that guild sieges are also instanced like some glorified AV is also complete garbage.
Games promising actual real PvP are Darkfall and Mortal Online. I highly doubt either ever make it to the shelves.
The lore is all but set for a conflict between the Good and the Evil so why dont they introduce Orcs, Urukhais, Goblins and "Men of the South" as playable evil races and let us fight for control of Middle Earth? It seems so obvious...
Please define what "real" PvP is.
If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.
Speaking of AoC, is it "real" PvP, since the majority of their PvP servers are FFA?
At the core "actual" PvP pits player characters versus player characters. Not PC's versus PC's in control of an NPC that is not their own personal avatar.
The monster players are personal avatars. You roll one and name it, it's your to play until you delete it. They gain ranks and abilities as you play them, they even have their own guilds.
REAL PvP is FFA without any restrictions in the actual game world.
Would not work with the IP. And honestly has proven repeatedly to be a failure/ niche game design. See Shadowbane, pre-Trammel UO, the FFA PvP servers in DAoC, and launch Lineage II. EVE is the only succesfull MMO to date to use that model. AoC may join the list, it's to early to say.
AoC is the closest new MMO that has actual real pvp. However, the instanced zones really kill that feel. Also, the fact that guild sieges are also instanced like some glorified AV is also complete garbage.
Ok, maybe AoC won't join the list.
Games promising actual real PvP are Darkfall and Mortal Online. I highly doubt either ever make it to the shelves.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
'If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.' Uh, 'real' PvP is about ganking in the open. It's about being given a free hand to hurt a member of another faction who stumbles across your path, any time, anywhere. Would not work with the lore. Many areas remained relatively safe throughout the books. The books state very specifically where the major battles were, including many not portrayed in any detail by the main narratives. Also, people asserting that the conclusion of LotR being written in stone, thusly justifying the lack of 'real' PvP, are full of it. .... LotR's conclusion is most definitely a final and ultimate victory for Gondor and the Fellowship, but I seriously doubt that would stop players from launching, say, a hundred-warg assault on Bree, or a Goblin attack on Rivendel. What you fail to acknowledge (or maybe just choose to ignore) is that Turbine has already violated the lore in so many ways that my guess is that Tolkien, glaring down from heaven, is already quite affronted. Save that none of that ever happened in the books. Rivendell and Bree were not attacked once during the time-line of the LoTR. Thank god Turbine isn't as willing as you would be to take a big dump on the lore just to adde something they think would be "kewl."
The rest is not even worth responding to. What an absolutely assinine post.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
The lore is all but set for a conflict between the Good and the Evil so why dont they introduce Orcs, Urukhais, Goblins and "Men of the South" as playable evil races and let us fight for control of Middle Earth? It seems so obvious...
Please define what "real" PvP is.
If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.
Speaking of AoC, is it "real" PvP, since the majority of their PvP servers are FFA?
At the core "actual" PvP pits player characters versus player characters. Not PC's versus PC's in control of an NPC that is not their own personal avatar.
REAL PvP is FFA without any restrictions in the actual game world.
AoC is the closest new MMO that has actual real pvp. However, the instanced zones really kill that feel. Also, the fact that guild sieges are also instanced like some glorified AV is also complete garbage.
Games promising actual real PvP are Darkfall and Mortal Online. I highly doubt either ever make it to the shelves.
And why is that? Because very few people want "real pvp" as you describe it...partly because some of us realize that stuff like that isn't fun, and partly because the people who THINK that stuff like that is fun will quickly quit a game when they find out that they are not the ones ganking, but the ones being ganked by people who have been playing longer.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
The lore is all but set for a conflict between the Good and the Evil so why dont they introduce Orcs, Urukhais, Goblins and "Men of the South" as playable evil races and let us fight for control of Middle Earth? It seems so obvious...
Please define what "real" PvP is.
If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.
Speaking of AoC, is it "real" PvP, since the majority of their PvP servers are FFA?
At the core "actual" PvP pits player characters versus player characters. Not PC's versus PC's in control of an NPC that is not their own personal avatar.
The monster players are personal avatars. You roll one and name it, it's your to play until you delete it. They gain ranks and abilities as you play them, they even have their own guilds.
REAL PvP is FFA without any restrictions in the actual game world.
Would not work with the IP. And honestly has proven repeatedly to be a failure/ niche game design. See Shadowbane, pre-Trammel UO, the FFA PvP servers in DAoC, and launch Lineage II. EVE is the only succesfull MMO to date to use that model. AoC may join the list, it's to early to say.
AoC is the closest new MMO that has actual real pvp. However, the instanced zones really kill that feel. Also, the fact that guild sieges are also instanced like some glorified AV is also complete garbage.
Ok, maybe AoC won't join the list.
Games promising actual real PvP are Darkfall and Mortal Online. I highly doubt either ever make it to the shelves.
The FFA Server on EQ, Rallos Zek, was highly popular in its day. Also, UO was highly popular in its day. That was before soccer moms, 12yr olds and adults who take the internet seriously, and the casual gamer started to play MMOs.
The best kind of PvP in a sandbox to date belongs to SWG. Faction PvP can work and did work in that game. I think an added element of becoming an "outlaw" that would allow you to attack anyone at any time would have made the game that much better, but it was still good.
This sort of PvP can survive and thrive if developers dont follow the WoW model. But then again, every company is driven and ruled by the almighty dollar.
People just need to learn that if a game has such a PvP style, that they shouldn't cry about it. Just don't buy the damn game. People crying about PvP is what has ruined it for most games. Don't like PvP? Take your carebear ass to a PvE server or another game.
[color=#ffff00]'It was a stroke of luck that isildur cut the one ring from his hand and banished him. If you knew anything about the lore you would know this.'
[color=#ffffff]How was this a 'stroke of luck?' After many, many years of brutal warfare, where thousands of warriors from each side perished (including Anarion [Isildur's brother]) all the way from the Dagorlad to Mt. Doom itself, the Armies of Gil-Galad and Elendil ultimately forced Sauron into combat. This, however, cost them their lives (Gil-Galad most gruesomely, when Sauron, whose hand 'was black and burned like fire' apparently got his mits onto the elf lord). [color=#ffffff]The implication was, by the time Elendil and Gil-Galad were slain, Sauron was subdued to extent that Isildur was able to trot on up and cut the ring from his hand (completely contrary to what is shown in PJ's on-screen interpretation). I'm not sure how that was a fluke. Isildur clearly knew exactly what the One Ring was, and by cutting it from Sauron's finger, he broke the Dark Lord's power. There's nothing freakish about the act - Isildur was facing a beaten-down-but-hardly-dead Sauron, and after little slicey-slice, Sauron appeared, for all intents and purposes, dead. That sounds calculated; not random or by chance. <Mod edit>
'If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.' Uh, 'real' PvP is about ganking in the open. It's about being given a free hand to hurt a member of another faction who stumbles across your path, any time, anywhere.
You have no clue what Player versus Player is. There are many different variations of it in different gaming genres.
RTS: 1 v 1, 2 v2, 3 v 3, etc.
FPS: FFA, DM, TDM, CTF, etc.
Arcades: Co-Op Mode, High Scores,1 v 1 (Tekken, Street Fighter), etc.
MMOs: RvR, Faction based, FFA, Instanced BGs (WoW, WAR, AoC), etc.
So please don't tell me what "real" PvP is again, because apparently you don't know. What you want is Ganking, which is just another consequence of PvP and not "real" PvP itself.
Originally posted by Retrad At the core "actual" PvP pits player characters versus player characters. Not PC's versus PC's in control of an NPC that is not their own personal avatar. REAL PvP is FFA without any restrictions in the actual game world. AoC is the closest new MMO that has actual real pvp. However, the instanced zones really kill that feel. Also, the fact that guild sieges are also instanced like some glorified AV is also complete garbage. Games promising actual real PvP are Darkfall and Mortal Online. I highly doubt either ever make it to the shelves.
Once again, FFA is NOT the only form of PvP, it's just one aspect of it. Read my post above.
As for AoC, they are watering down many aspects of their FFA already. So much for FFA in AoC.
Notoriety System
A player is flagged in three different ways using this system: innocent, criminal, and murderer.
* Criminals and Murderers will have an icon showing their status.
* Innocent : No one can perform hostile actions on you without being flagged as a Criminal.
* Criminal : Performing a hostile action on an Innocent player will flag you as a Criminal for 5 minutes. Any further Criminal acts during the 5 minute time will refresh your Criminal Status.
Well I happen to like LoTRO just the way it is. I thank Turbine every day for not making me endure level 50 orcs running around Bree and the Shire and ganking newbies. Seems as if all the real PvP games turn out to be steaming fly ridden heaps ( my opinion there) on release. Shadowbane, Dark and Light, Ages of Conan, Linage II, wnat real PvP go knock yourself out with one of those piles of crap. About the only 2 real PvP games that came out half decent are EvE and DAoC and in DAoC the PvE suffered pretty badly for the 2+ years I played it.
Anyway for those who want a real PvP gamelike I said earlier no one is stopping you from playing AoC or Shadowbane with the rest of the kiddies. Just be willing to put up with flavor of the week cllasses, gank fests, whiny players and all teh rest of the crap that seems to go along with real PvP. Maybe WAR will be a good game, but as they say all MMORPGs look good till they release.
To the OP: You won't find many that agree with you here. This game is heavily besieged by the PVE crowd and it is too late now for Turbine to turn it around. Monster Play is not a chance to develop and grow a character from scratch. And it is not real open pvp. Personally I can't pick up an mmo without pvp. And I think a good IP like this deserve a real pvp game. Not just some hold your hand storylines for the carebears. This IP screams realm versus realm warfare. One can only hope one day they will evolve it and make some pvp servers, but I doubt they will do it now when they have a strong pve fanbase. Too sad it should happen to Tolkien's IP of all things.
no, for all th ereasons i said above.
It might seem like a good IP for RVR, but when you look at things closesly that wouldn't work well.
~~~ Currently Playing ~~~ LOTRO- Guardian Wrymstrum & Lore-master Stabler on Nimrodel.
Conan- Zoltar <Angels of Death> Guardian on Stormrage.
Pliz dont say that there is no pvp in lotro because its the easy way to avoid balance problems. Thats just plain stupid, as I've said a couple of times and other posters that actually know more of lotro than just what is seen in the movies; LOTR lore cannot be adapted to rvr of full scale pvp the creep side would have nothing to do but pvp and wouldnt have any freedom.
In LOTR (not in the movies, which this game isnt inspired from, rad the books youll see) the evil creature are for the most part non intellingent, goblins are nothing mroe than glorified cockroaches, orcs have very little intelligence and few of them do more than eat loot and kill. And more importantly htey arn't free they obey teh orders of beings that are vastly more powerful than them (Saruman, Sauron) and who treat them like ressources that are expandable (do players want the char they spend hundreds of hours to be cannon fodder?
Please instead of just critiscizing a game you dont or barely play, try to know teh bare minimum about lotr before saying that this game really should have large scale pvp.
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
Originally posted by Retrad At the core "actual" PvP pits player characters versus player characters. Not PC's versus PC's in control of an NPC that is not their own personal avatar. REAL PvP is FFA without any restrictions in the actual game world. AoC is the closest new MMO that has actual real pvp. However, the instanced zones really kill that feel. Also, the fact that guild sieges are also instanced like some glorified AV is also complete garbage. Games promising actual real PvP are Darkfall and Mortal Online. I highly doubt either ever make it to the shelves.
Once again, FFA is NOT the only form of PvP, it's just one aspect of it. Read my post above.
As for AoC, they are watering down many aspects of their FFA already. So much for FFA in AoC.
Notoriety System
A player is flagged in three different ways using this system: innocent, criminal, and murderer.
* Criminals and Murderers will have an icon showing their status.
* Innocent : No one can perform hostile actions on you without being flagged as a Criminal.
* Criminal : Performing a hostile action on an Innocent player will flag you as a Criminal for 5 minutes. Any further Criminal acts during the 5 minute time will refresh your Criminal Status.
Faction, Team Based, and Battlegrounds are spin-offs on what REAL PvP is/was when it first started in MMOs with Ultima.
Factions were added in games with lore, like EQ. Team based was added in RvR in DAoC and now WoW's Arenas, and BGs...well obviously that again is another spin with WoW.
Now I will give Faction PvP its credit. The only thing is that it limits you on who you can kill. However, that could be easily overcome by some type of outlaw system where you are then KOS to either faction.
However....Team base(I'm speaking about Arenas and not RvR which is basically faction) and Instanced/BGs are pure trash. They were put in the game because carebears/casual players a whole lot, but the game companies couldn't just ignore PvP because then they'd lose money not garnered by the PvP players. Oh, I hear you now, "BUT THE PVP PLAYERS ARE A SMALL PERCENT!" well here's a lesson in business....Every Dollar Counts.
FFA PvP was the first form and is ultimately the REAL TRUE PvP. The others are simply different approaches that are more player friendly and satisfy the large percent of carebears who makeup the gaming community.
Originally posted by Retrad At the core "actual" PvP pits player characters versus player characters. Not PC's versus PC's in control of an NPC that is not their own personal avatar. REAL PvP is FFA without any restrictions in the actual game world. AoC is the closest new MMO that has actual real pvp. However, the instanced zones really kill that feel. Also, the fact that guild sieges are also instanced like some glorified AV is also complete garbage. Games promising actual real PvP are Darkfall and Mortal Online. I highly doubt either ever make it to the shelves.
Once again, FFA is NOT the only form of PvP, it's just one aspect of it. Read my post above.
As for AoC, they are watering down many aspects of their FFA already. So much for FFA in AoC.
Notoriety System
A player is flagged in three different ways using this system: innocent, criminal, and murderer.
* Criminals and Murderers will have an icon showing their status.
* Innocent : No one can perform hostile actions on you without being flagged as a Criminal.
* Criminal : Performing a hostile action on an Innocent player will flag you as a Criminal for 5 minutes. Any further Criminal acts during the 5 minute time will refresh your Criminal Status.
Faction, Team Based, and Battlegrounds are spin-offs on what REAL PvP is/was when it first started in MMOs with Ultima.
Factions were added in games with lore, like EQ. Team based was added in RvR in DAoC and now WoW's Arenas, and BGs...well obviously that again is another spin with WoW.
Now I will give Faction PvP its credit. The only thing is that it limits you on who you can kill. However, that could be easily overcome by some type of outlaw system where you are then KOS to either faction.
However....Team base(I'm speaking about Arenas and not RvR which is basically faction) and Instanced/BGs are pure trash. They were put in the game because carebears/casual players a whole lot, but the game companies couldn't just ignore PvP because then they'd lose money not garnered by the PvP players. Oh, I hear you now, "BUT THE PVP PLAYERS ARE A SMALL PERCENT!" well here's a lesson in business....Every Dollar Counts.
FFA PvP was the first form and is ultimately the REAL TRUE PvP. The others are simply different approaches that are more player friendly and satisfy the large percent of carebears who makeup the gaming community.
The definition of Player vs Player is two human controlled characters opposing each other. Even dueling is a form of PvP. You can say that FFA PvP is the only "real" PvP until you are blue in the face, and it will not make it true.
I thought all ten of you guys were hanging out in Shadowbane bragging to each other about how leet you are, anyway. What are you doing on our board?
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Yeebo is spot on again, there is no such as *REAL* PVP.
The closes to "REAL" PVP is Battlefield, Counter-Strike etc.: the ones that require human skill more than turn-based skills. No problems with strategy though, but in classic MMORPG's like EQ, WOW, LOTRO etc, human vs human fight is a lot more about strategy and experience, than "skill" - in the classic meaning of the word.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Too many retards posting here dont even play the game, one of the big reasons why there is no full ganking in lotro other than lore is the players that were atracted by lotro when the project started didnt want the game to become a gankfest.
All the "hardcore pvpers" that come here and whine should just go play L2 and enjoy the grind/gank, because lotro will never have rvr or any kind of open pvp.
And no dont pretend you know anything about the lore if you have seen the movie.
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
Comments
Ok I feel like Im getting abit repetetive...
You can roll an Uruk (war-leader or Blackarrow) and go out and kill hobbits (I love it too
)
They even have a small village in the Ettens so you can go there and kill them all night long..
and to Draccan... Im pretty happy that Turbine didnt let the PvP people who dont give a shit about the lore ruin the IP created by Tolkien... play Lotr:conquest when it comes out if you dont care about the lore and just want to kill other people (not a MMO thou) ... and if you read through this thread you will see perfect reasons why RvR isnt perfect for this IP...
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
I can feel a slight contradiction here... a glitch in the matrix (called: credibility?
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I stand corrected. I am a big boy and can admit when i am wrong. Just cause there is no new PvMP area with the release of the expansion doesn't meen they won't later put one in.
I have the impression that the moors are being expanded somehow. They haven't told us anything concrete, but they have made references to something that sounds a lot like the relic and realm bonus system in DAoC.
I also don't think that LoTRO is a good game for someone that only wants to PvP by any stretch. It has great PvP, and what's there is a ton of fun. But there's only one zone and only so much to do. Even on my play schedule I doubt it would be more than a few months of content if that's all I did.
LoTRO is about having a diversity of activities to choose from. If you focus on one exclusively (be it PvP, raiding, crafting, or whatever) and don't care about anything else, you are going to burn through your subset of the content pretty quickly. For example, I've been pretty much "done" with crafting on my main for 6 months (though I do still need to grind out one more level of Foreschel faction for recipes), so I moved on to other activities.
I wouldn't really recommend LoTRO to someone that only wants to craft, only wants to raid, or only wants to PvP, personally. All of those systems are solid, but none are meant to be an entire game unto themselves. I wonder if this is explaining some of the difference between folks that "get" LoTRO and those that find it lacking.
Of course there's also folks that play 5+ hours a day for weeks or months on end. No linear MMO is really going to keep pace with someone that plays like that, unless it's been out for years or they really enjoy alts. I don't envy someone that burns through the game like popcorn, I would imagine you'd miss out on a lot of what I enjoy about it. Plus you'd be twiddling your thumbs in between major updates (if you even stuck around long enough to see them).
I do long hours on the weekends but can barely log during the week. I also enjoy alts a lot (crafting alt army ftw!). I will likely never run out of content with my playstyle.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
'If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.'
Uh, 'real' PvP is about ganking in the open. It's about being given a free hand to hurt a member of another faction who stumbles across your path, any time, anywhere.
Also, people asserting that the conclusion of LotR being written in stone, thusly justifying the lack of 'real' PvP, are full of it. Sure, Sauron is going to ultimately lose, but that doesn't mean that he didn't prevail occasionally. Certainly, he won some battles outside the core storylines featured in the books. If he didn't, than why is everyone terrified of him? If Sauron and his armies didn't occasionally roll over anyone, why is everyone (including Gandalf) afraid to even say his name? I know that if my arch nemesis had gone 0 for his last 15,634 battles, I wouldn't exactly be quaking in my boots, even if I was facing 3-to-1 or 5-to-1 or whatever odds.
Let's look at SWG as an example. SWG had a very open PvP system. It also has a written-in-stone outcome for the Empire. Did that stop Imperial players from trying to win, despite the fact that their ultimate fate is pretty much locked in? Nope, it didn't.
LotR's conclusion is most definitely a final and ultimate victory for Gondor and the Fellowship, but I seriously doubt that would stop players from launching, say, a hundred-warg assault on Bree, or a Goblin attack on Rivendel. What you fail to acknowledge (or maybe just choose to ignore) is that Turbine has already violated the lore in so many ways that my guess is that Tolkien, glaring down from heaven, is already quite affronted.
<Mod edit>
You my friend are pathetic if you think that a game proves your manhood or that one is a coward or not. Just cause a person doesn't like to PVP doesn't meen they are a coward. It is s freakin game and not everyone likes to play the same way. I prefer PVE but i can stand my ground with the best in PVP. Does that make me a coward? No. It just meens that i prefer a differant playstyle. Grow a pair. LOL i have had a pair alot longer than you and i am not afriad to use them. A game is not a place to judge if a person has a pair or not.
Your opinion has been noted and is nothing more than your opinion. Saying it is the real truth doesn't make it so.
Ouch. That really sucks. Maybe they'll do something like they did with Delving of Fror, and add another instance within Ettenmoors.
I'm wondering why someone play LotRO as a full time creep though. You're really missing out on the rest of the game.
Cheers Observer,
I haven't missed the rest of the game. Hehe you could even say, I've see the whole game and thats probably why I'm a full time creep. I have the lvl50's, the gm crafters, tons of rep, 4/6 rift with dkp in bank to finish it up if I cared too. I never last more than a minute or two on the pve side and its straight back to creep mp. Its been that way after the first month the game went live, lvl the toon then parked him unless the kinship would drag me kicking and screamin from the ettens.
Although as a full time creep I'm the first to admit the Ettens has gotten very stale and just as static as the rest of the game. Thats why I'm disappointed theres no expansion of zones. As far as what the devs have to say on what their changes will be to tweak the Ettens. Lots of hot air and marketing. After all its mvmp. Lotro doesnt do anything in the Ettens unless their hand is forced. This last book creeps got emotes and both sides diminsihing returns. Something they said they would look into and institute back when it all went live on Arwen. So 18 months later is appears. The big ettens expansion the Delving from the creep prespective is just a barely used underground dead zone for forced pve for pot mats.
So while I'm grateful the devs shot straight on this,informing us all that once again pve is their priority and mvmp players stay back burner. Thats cool. My fun money will sit on the sidelines for Warhammer and anything Lotro will be just to log and chat up my old creep buddies.
Cheers and much respect Observer.
Please define what "real" PvP is.
If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.
Speaking of AoC, is it "real" PvP, since the majority of their PvP servers are FFA?
At the core "actual" PvP pits player characters versus player characters. Not PC's versus PC's in control of an NPC that is not their own personal avatar.
REAL PvP is FFA without any restrictions in the actual game world.
AoC is the closest new MMO that has actual real pvp. However, the instanced zones really kill that feel. Also, the fact that guild sieges are also instanced like some glorified AV is also complete garbage.
Games promising actual real PvP are Darkfall and Mortal Online. I highly doubt either ever make it to the shelves.
Please define what "real" PvP is.
If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.
Speaking of AoC, is it "real" PvP, since the majority of their PvP servers are FFA?
At the core "actual" PvP pits player characters versus player characters. Not PC's versus PC's in control of an NPC that is not their own personal avatar.
The monster players are personal avatars. You roll one and name it, it's your to play until you delete it. They gain ranks and abilities as you play them, they even have their own guilds.
REAL PvP is FFA without any restrictions in the actual game world.
Would not work with the IP. And honestly has proven repeatedly to be a failure/ niche game design. See Shadowbane, pre-Trammel UO, the FFA PvP servers in DAoC, and launch Lineage II. EVE is the only succesfull MMO to date to use that model. AoC may join the list, it's to early to say.
AoC is the closest new MMO that has actual real pvp. However, the instanced zones really kill that feel. Also, the fact that guild sieges are also instanced like some glorified AV is also complete garbage.
Ok, maybe AoC won't join the list.
Games promising actual real PvP are Darkfall and Mortal Online. I highly doubt either ever make it to the shelves.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
The rest is not even worth responding to. What an absolutely assinine post.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Please define what "real" PvP is.
If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.
Speaking of AoC, is it "real" PvP, since the majority of their PvP servers are FFA?
At the core "actual" PvP pits player characters versus player characters. Not PC's versus PC's in control of an NPC that is not their own personal avatar.
REAL PvP is FFA without any restrictions in the actual game world.
AoC is the closest new MMO that has actual real pvp. However, the instanced zones really kill that feel. Also, the fact that guild sieges are also instanced like some glorified AV is also complete garbage.
Games promising actual real PvP are Darkfall and Mortal Online. I highly doubt either ever make it to the shelves.
And why is that? Because very few people want "real pvp" as you describe it...partly because some of us realize that stuff like that isn't fun, and partly because the people who THINK that stuff like that is fun will quickly quit a game when they find out that they are not the ones ganking, but the ones being ganked by people who have been playing longer.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Please define what "real" PvP is.
If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.
Speaking of AoC, is it "real" PvP, since the majority of their PvP servers are FFA?
At the core "actual" PvP pits player characters versus player characters. Not PC's versus PC's in control of an NPC that is not their own personal avatar.
The monster players are personal avatars. You roll one and name it, it's your to play until you delete it. They gain ranks and abilities as you play them, they even have their own guilds.
REAL PvP is FFA without any restrictions in the actual game world.
Would not work with the IP. And honestly has proven repeatedly to be a failure/ niche game design. See Shadowbane, pre-Trammel UO, the FFA PvP servers in DAoC, and launch Lineage II. EVE is the only succesfull MMO to date to use that model. AoC may join the list, it's to early to say.
AoC is the closest new MMO that has actual real pvp. However, the instanced zones really kill that feel. Also, the fact that guild sieges are also instanced like some glorified AV is also complete garbage.
Ok, maybe AoC won't join the list.
Games promising actual real PvP are Darkfall and Mortal Online. I highly doubt either ever make it to the shelves.
The FFA Server on EQ, Rallos Zek, was highly popular in its day. Also, UO was highly popular in its day. That was before soccer moms, 12yr olds and adults who take the internet seriously, and the casual gamer started to play MMOs.
The best kind of PvP in a sandbox to date belongs to SWG. Faction PvP can work and did work in that game. I think an added element of becoming an "outlaw" that would allow you to attack anyone at any time would have made the game that much better, but it was still good.
This sort of PvP can survive and thrive if developers dont follow the WoW model. But then again, every company is driven and ruled by the almighty dollar.
People just need to learn that if a game has such a PvP style, that they shouldn't cry about it. Just don't buy the damn game. People crying about PvP is what has ruined it for most games. Don't like PvP? Take your carebear ass to a PvE server or another game.
[color=#ffff00]'It was a stroke of luck that isildur cut the one ring from his hand and banished him. If you knew anything about the lore you would know this.'
[color=#ffffff]How was this a 'stroke of luck?' After many, many years of brutal warfare, where thousands of warriors from each side perished (including Anarion [Isildur's brother]) all the way from the Dagorlad to Mt. Doom itself, the Armies of Gil-Galad and Elendil ultimately forced Sauron into combat. This, however, cost them their lives (Gil-Galad most gruesomely, when Sauron, whose hand 'was black and burned like fire' apparently got his mits onto the elf lord).
[color=#ffffff]The implication was, by the time Elendil and Gil-Galad were slain, Sauron was subdued to extent that Isildur was able to trot on up and cut the ring from his hand (completely contrary to what is shown in PJ's on-screen interpretation).
I'm not sure how that was a fluke. Isildur clearly knew exactly what the One Ring was, and by cutting it from Sauron's finger, he broke the Dark Lord's power. There's nothing freakish about the act - Isildur was facing a beaten-down-but-hardly-dead Sauron, and after little slicey-slice, Sauron appeared, for all intents and purposes, dead. That sounds calculated; not random or by chance.
<Mod edit>
You have no clue what Player versus Player is. There are many different variations of it in different gaming genres.
So please don't tell me what "real" PvP is again, because apparently you don't know. What you want is Ganking, which is just another consequence of PvP and not "real" PvP itself.
Once again, FFA is NOT the only form of PvP, it's just one aspect of it. Read my post above.
As for AoC, they are watering down many aspects of their FFA already. So much for FFA in AoC.
Notoriety System
A player is flagged in three different ways using this system: innocent, criminal, and murderer.
* Criminals and Murderers will have an icon showing their status.
* Innocent : No one can perform hostile actions on you without being flagged as a Criminal.
* Criminal : Performing a hostile action on an Innocent player will flag you as a Criminal for 5 minutes. Any further Criminal acts during the 5 minute time will refresh your Criminal Status.
More info here: http://vnboards.ign.com/age_of_conan_general_board/b22995/108002369/p1/?23
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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Well I happen to like LoTRO just the way it is. I thank Turbine every day for not making me endure level 50 orcs running around Bree and the Shire and ganking newbies. Seems as if all the real PvP games turn out to be steaming fly ridden heaps ( my opinion there) on release. Shadowbane, Dark and Light, Ages of Conan, Linage II, wnat real PvP go knock yourself out with one of those piles of crap. About the only 2 real PvP games that came out half decent are EvE and DAoC and in DAoC the PvE suffered pretty badly for the 2+ years I played it.
Anyway for those who want a real PvP game like I said earlier no one is stopping you from playing AoC or Shadowbane with the rest of the kiddies. Just be willing to put up with flavor of the week cllasses, gank fests, whiny players and all teh rest of the crap that seems to go along with real PvP. Maybe WAR will be a good game, but as they say all MMORPGs look good till they release.
I miss DAoC
I guess in order to prevent 1000000000 possible bugs/fixes/nerfing that come with the "real PvP", they took an easy way out.
Plus, LOTRO world, that they designed, is too small anyway to handel 2 faction.
no, for all th ereasons i said above.
It might seem like a good IP for RVR, but when you look at things closesly that wouldn't work well.
~~~ Currently Playing ~~~
LOTRO- Guardian Wrymstrum & Lore-master Stabler on Nimrodel.
Conan- Zoltar <Angels of Death> Guardian on Stormrage.
Pliz dont say that there is no pvp in lotro because its the easy way to avoid balance problems. Thats just plain stupid, as I've said a couple of times and other posters that actually know more of lotro than just what is seen in the movies; LOTR lore cannot be adapted to rvr of full scale pvp the creep side would have nothing to do but pvp and wouldnt have any freedom.
In LOTR (not in the movies, which this game isnt inspired from, rad the books youll see) the evil creature are for the most part non intellingent, goblins are nothing mroe than glorified cockroaches, orcs have very little intelligence and few of them do more than eat loot and kill. And more importantly htey arn't free they obey teh orders of beings that are vastly more powerful than them (Saruman, Sauron) and who treat them like ressources that are expandable (do players want the char they spend hundreds of hours to be cannon fodder?
Please instead of just critiscizing a game you dont or barely play, try to know teh bare minimum about lotr before saying that this game really should have large scale pvp.
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
Once again, FFA is NOT the only form of PvP, it's just one aspect of it. Read my post above.
As for AoC, they are watering down many aspects of their FFA already. So much for FFA in AoC.
Notoriety System
A player is flagged in three different ways using this system: innocent, criminal, and murderer.
* Criminals and Murderers will have an icon showing their status.
* Innocent : No one can perform hostile actions on you without being flagged as a Criminal.
* Criminal : Performing a hostile action on an Innocent player will flag you as a Criminal for 5 minutes. Any further Criminal acts during the 5 minute time will refresh your Criminal Status.
More info here: http://vnboards.ign.com/age_of_conan_general_board/b22995/108002369/p1/?23
WRONG!
Faction, Team Based, and Battlegrounds are spin-offs on what REAL PvP is/was when it first started in MMOs with Ultima.
Factions were added in games with lore, like EQ. Team based was added in RvR in DAoC and now WoW's Arenas, and BGs...well obviously that again is another spin with WoW.
Now I will give Faction PvP its credit. The only thing is that it limits you on who you can kill. However, that could be easily overcome by some type of outlaw system where you are then KOS to either faction.
However....Team base(I'm speaking about Arenas and not RvR which is basically faction) and Instanced/BGs are pure trash. They were put in the game because carebears/casual players
a whole lot, but the game companies couldn't just ignore PvP because then they'd lose money not garnered by the PvP players. Oh, I hear you now, "BUT THE PVP PLAYERS ARE A SMALL PERCENT!" well here's a lesson in business....Every Dollar Counts.
FFA PvP was the first form and is ultimately the REAL TRUE PvP. The others are simply different approaches that are more player friendly and satisfy the large percent of carebears who makeup the gaming community.
Once again, FFA is NOT the only form of PvP, it's just one aspect of it. Read my post above.
As for AoC, they are watering down many aspects of their FFA already. So much for FFA in AoC.
Notoriety System
A player is flagged in three different ways using this system: innocent, criminal, and murderer.
* Criminals and Murderers will have an icon showing their status.
* Innocent : No one can perform hostile actions on you without being flagged as a Criminal.
* Criminal : Performing a hostile action on an Innocent player will flag you as a Criminal for 5 minutes. Any further Criminal acts during the 5 minute time will refresh your Criminal Status.
More info here: http://vnboards.ign.com/age_of_conan_general_board/b22995/108002369/p1/?23
WRONG!
Faction, Team Based, and Battlegrounds are spin-offs on what REAL PvP is/was when it first started in MMOs with Ultima.
Factions were added in games with lore, like EQ. Team based was added in RvR in DAoC and now WoW's Arenas, and BGs...well obviously that again is another spin with WoW.
Now I will give Faction PvP its credit. The only thing is that it limits you on who you can kill. However, that could be easily overcome by some type of outlaw system where you are then KOS to either faction.
However....Team base(I'm speaking about Arenas and not RvR which is basically faction) and Instanced/BGs are pure trash. They were put in the game because carebears/casual players
a whole lot, but the game companies couldn't just ignore PvP because then they'd lose money not garnered by the PvP players. Oh, I hear you now, "BUT THE PVP PLAYERS ARE A SMALL PERCENT!" well here's a lesson in business....Every Dollar Counts.
FFA PvP was the first form and is ultimately the REAL TRUE PvP. The others are simply different approaches that are more player friendly and satisfy the large percent of carebears who makeup the gaming community.
The definition of Player vs Player is two human controlled characters opposing each other. Even dueling is a form of PvP. You can say that FFA PvP is the only "real" PvP until you are blue in the face, and it will not make it true.
I thought all ten of you guys were hanging out in Shadowbane bragging to each other about how leet you are, anyway. What are you doing on our board?
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
IM ON YOUR BOARD EATING YOUR INTERNETS!!!!
Yeebo is spot on again, there is no such as *REAL* PVP.
The closes to "REAL" PVP is Battlefield, Counter-Strike etc.: the ones that require human skill more than turn-based skills. No problems with strategy though, but in classic MMORPG's like EQ, WOW, LOTRO etc, human vs human fight is a lot more about strategy and experience, than "skill" - in the classic meaning of the word.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Too many retards posting here dont even play the game, one of the big reasons why there is no full ganking in lotro other than lore is the players that were atracted by lotro when the project started didnt want the game to become a gankfest.
All the "hardcore pvpers" that come here and whine should just go play L2 and enjoy the grind/gank, because lotro will never have rvr or any kind of open pvp.
And no dont pretend you know anything about the lore if you have seen the movie.
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.