Now you are saying WoW spent $120 million dollars to copy a failing game that closed down its servers? I want you to take one minute and honestly listen to what you are saying.
Then you say all this advertising has millions of people continually playing a game they DO NOT LIKE year after year? That is even funnier in a sad sort of way.
Mass hysteria.... That must be it.
AC2 has more than its fair share of issues that weren't just about the game being to easy. The game was rushed out and suffered as a result. That is a point you continually overlook. Marketing might be able to get people to try a game, even a bad one, but it will not entice them to keep playing. If a game sucks large chunks of people will leave.
Can people see quality? Sure, when they have to reboot due to a memmory leak every hour, when quests fail due to a bug, disembodied heads floating 2 feet above the rest of the avatar, lauchers that fail to download a simple client, NPCs that do not spawn during a holiday event, etc etc. That is not evey talking about non tangibles like quality of story or depth of concepts and the like. Some games have it, others do not.
The sims online had one of the largest budgets in MMO history and is the best selling series of PC games in history. Why isn't it more popular if you advertising theory is correct? Instead the game is closed down and failed.
While we are on the topic, do you have ANY PROOF to back up your claims that Blizzard spent $40 million dollars to market the game at launch? Please share.
Nowdays WOW is just meaningless grindfest game which eats huge amount of time if you want to keep in touch with the rest of the comunity. What a sick idea by blizzard was to make battlegrounds PVP a stupid honor grind fest where players go only because they need equipment with ressilience (another sick idea by blizz) to be able to compete in arenas. The more time you have to play the more honor you have. Before TBC AV was an epic battle which sometimes lasted more than 7 hours, now it takes 30min with almost no fighting horde vs alliance (rinse and repeat over and over again). WOW is for kids with lots of time (you can see this at the stupid kiddie comunity in wow) Vanguard is for mature players with jobs, wifes, kids who doesnt have so much time to play games (you can see that at the VG mature, inteligent and friendly comunity)
If AV battles took 7 hours before and 30min now, how can you say wow takes more time now? Since TBC everything takes less time really. Dungeons in outland are shorter and BG is more intense. This allows casual players that cannot sit and play 7 hours straight to enjoy the game more.
You absolutely missed the point. AV battles sometimes took more than 7h. But it was intensive fight between A vs H and it was fun. It was not about kill that boss NPC in 30min and take the honor. People went to BG to fight against the opposite faction not to grind honor for stupid purples over and over again. And pls tell me are you enjoying now those AV battles ? Like rush to opposite faction fortress and kill that boss over and over again ? Where is PVP in that ? It seems more like PVE to me
Nowdays WOW is just meaningless grindfest game which eats huge amount of time if you want to keep in touch with the rest of the comunity. What a sick idea by blizzard was to make battlegrounds PVP a stupid honor grind fest where players go only because they need equipment with ressilience (another sick idea by blizz) to be able to compete in arenas. The more time you have to play the more honor you have. Before TBC AV was an epic battle which sometimes lasted more than 7 hours, now it takes 30min with almost no fighting horde vs alliance (rinse and repeat over and over again). WOW is for kids with lots of time (you can see this at the stupid kiddie comunity in wow) Vanguard is for mature players with jobs, wifes, kids who doesnt have so much time to play games (you can see that at the VG mature, inteligent and friendly comunity)
Has anyone ever stopped to ask, if WoW is just an EQ clone and everyone else is cloning WoW then why is WoW so much more popular?
Because I leveled my first char to lvl60 on AMD 1ghz, 768MB RAM, geforce 2 gts 64MB without any serious performance problems. VG is very intensive HW game. And now that I have powerfull rig I wont play old games with obsolete graphic on it.
Originally posted by mate0377 You absolutely missed the point. AV battles sometimes took more than 7h. But it was intensive fight between A vs H and it was fun. It was not about kill that boss NPC in 30min and take the honor. People went to BG to fight against the opposite faction not to grind honor for stupid purples over and over again. And pls tell me are you enjoying now those AV battles ? Like rush to opposite faction fortress and kill that boss over and over again ? Where is PVP in that ? It seems more like PVE to me
Those 7 hour AV fights were not intensive PvP battles. They were just a bunch of people running to the middle of the map to kill each other over and over to farm honor. That is why they lasted that long, because people didn't care about winning the objectives. Ending the game sometimes meant people would just end up with a wait in the que for the next game.
There were some great battles that did struggle back and forth over objectives, but they were the exception and not really the norm. I think the new system is much better and people actually try to win and defend. For me I get more strategic AVs now than in the past by a long shot. Objectives pushing back and forth with defenders and attackers trying to win and not just mindlessly kill to get honor.
Has anyone ever stopped to ask, if WoW is just an EQ clone and everyone else is cloning WoW then why is WoW so much more popular?
Because I leveled my first char to lvl60 on AMD 1ghz, 768MB RAM, geforce 2 gts 64MB without any serious performance problems. VG is very intensive HW game. And now that I have powerfull rig I wont play old games with obsolete graphic on it.
What is your point, that millions of people only play WoW because they have not upgraded their computer for the last 4 years? If what you are trying to suggest is the norm then WoW subs would be declining over the last 4 years while other games would be growing in numbers as people upgrade their computers, but that isn't the case is it.
Thillian do you realy belive the utter crap you spew? After reading thru this post, it just boggles me that it seems like you truely belive what you are saying.
I have played WoW since release, i have tried out just about every other mmorpg since then, all the ( wow killers) .... None come close to doing what WoW has done. Yeah thats just an opinion that i have, I could be totaly wrong, But it sure seems like ALOT of other ppl see it the same way. According to you one of the only reasons anyone plays WoW is because of advertising, I for one had never heard of it before i bought it. I understand if you just dont like the game, but please for the love of god stop just making crap up trying to prove your point that is total BS to start with.
Daffid stop calling me a liar. You can not prove me wrong and just because I am not gonna reveal you my source doesnt mean I'm lying. Noone is forcing you to believe what I write. Forums are all about rumours and gossip. But calling a liar is a bit too much. I am working as a gameplay designer for eastern europe single player RPG's (last one was very successful even in US) . and I hardly can give you any source for my claims, because some of the information were not official released.
I was saying WoW ripped off AC2 from the very beginning of WoW"s existence. You can see my posts history if you bother. It did not ripped EQ nor DaoC to that extent as it ripped AC2. From battle ground system and ranking throught the thousands of solo easy quests with no xp death penalties, same world rules, same crafting, same combat..
You've got to bring some better argument into this discussion that just millions play it. Is this all you manage? I tried to read your post a few times. But the only reason ou gave why we should think WoW is good is that it is played by a milion people.
I am not doing what masses do in other areas. I am not wearing the same clothes as majority, I am not eating the same food, nor listening to the same music and I don't like mass-popular movies and blockbusters either.
What on earth makes you think it is my responsibility to prove you wrong? Not that I haven't, but when you present rumors and speculation as statements of FACT, then you are being untruthful and in effect lying. Anyone can make internet claims about their pedigree as if that somehow makes them privy to secret knowledge no one else has, but that doesn't make it a FACT. There is a reason you are the only person to think this $120 million dollar budget is real. Stop and think about that for a moment will you? Everything about the games launch flies directly in the face of the misinformation you spread. Do you ever wonder why no one agrees with you?
Second, I was disagreeing with people who say WoW is popular because millions of people play it. Please try to read more carefully next time. That includes you in case you failed to understand. I know why WoW is popular and the millions of people are a result of those reasons, not the cause. You on the other hand have an interesting list of reasons why it is popular ranging from mass hysteria to a team of marketers brain washing subscribers to play a game they hate. Will you try to step back and listen to how ludicrous that sounds?
Call me crazy but WoW crafting looks and smells like just most old MMOs crafting of click combine results, battlegrounds were also in DAOC as were similar style quests. Again you are the only person I have ever seen think Blizzard spent $120 million dollars to clone AC2, but feel free. I do not disagree that WoW took ideas from many games, but the fact that Blizzard hired former Everquest raid leaders to help design their game speaks more of the truth than anything you wish people would believe. But knock yourself out trying to convince people, you are doing a bang up job so far.
WOW owns 60% of the MMORPG field. Thousands of websites support the game and millions of videos show how the best players play in PVE and PVP. Supporting add ons, UI adaptations, class tips, gaming tips. You name it/ One of the better: www.wowinsider.com It is now for almost 1100 days the mosty played game on XFire (number 1) and this being backed up by all kind of independant sources. Wow is also the ONLY game in the top 10 that you have to PAY to play. CoD4 being a far second but free to play. That alone says enough. Of course you can play Vanguard in which there are about 40K subscribers. Number of voters that vote with their wallets .... says it all.
Yeh because, Blizzard spent more money on marketing campaign before release (40$mil) than Sigil for the whole development of Vanguard (30$mil)
It's like comparing Titanic movie with 200$+budget with Waking Life that had 2.5$mil. Apparently Titanic saw much MORE people and many more will say it's a great movie, while waking life has much smaller fan base.
Marketing in the Netherlands here for MMO's was non existant before WoW (now you see the tv commercial sometimes) but I can tell you that that game spread on sheer word of mouth in my community and had *nothing* to do with any adds and the like which didn't really become visible till the Celebrity adds were made a few years in.
I know many people who never played MMO's and thought paying monthly was the last thing they'd ever do change their mind in an instant after they got to play the open beta.
This game sold itself on *merits*, not on a marketing campaign.
Muds, UO, EQ, now those sold on merits, Blizzard on the other hand tapped into a budding market with product recognition to back them up. The only merit WoW has, its that a lot of people play it.
wow also has very good gameplay, you must give credit where its due. wow is more fun to play and vanguard is a deeper game. vanguards combat and animations cant touch wow, but if wow had the depth of vanguard, then we would all be happy...still if you play games just for fun then wow wins hands down.
What on earth makes you think it is my responsibility to prove you wrong? Not that I haven't, but when you present rumors and speculation as statements of FACT, then you are being untruth... blahblah...
Speculation for you, fact for me. I am not gonna reveal you the source, because it's simply impossible. Anyway, apart from this, the whole discussion is rather pointless. You are trying to claim here that WoW is a good game, because milions play it and that it doesnt matter it has absolutely no originality. I disagree. End of discussion. Thank you for your opinion.
WOW owns 60% of the MMORPG field. Thousands of websites support the game and millions of videos show how the best players play in PVE and PVP. Supporting add ons, UI adaptations, class tips, gaming tips. You name it/ One of the better: www.wowinsider.com It is now for almost 1100 days the mosty played game on XFire (number 1) and this being backed up by all kind of independant sources. Wow is also the ONLY game in the top 10 that you have to PAY to play. CoD4 being a far second but free to play. That alone says enough. Of course you can play Vanguard in which there are about 40K subscribers. Number of voters that vote with their wallets .... says it all.
Yeh because, Blizzard spent more money on marketing campaign before release (40$mil) than Sigil for the whole development of Vanguard (30$mil)
It's like comparing Titanic movie with 200$+budget with Waking Life that had 2.5$mil. Apparently Titanic saw much MORE people and many more will say it's a great movie, while waking life has much smaller fan base.
Marketing in the Netherlands here for MMO's was non existant before WoW (now you see the tv commercial sometimes) but I can tell you that that game spread on sheer word of mouth in my community and had *nothing* to do with any adds and the like which didn't really become visible till the Celebrity adds were made a few years in.
I know many people who never played MMO's and thought paying monthly was the last thing they'd ever do change their mind in an instant after they got to play the open beta.
This game sold itself on *merits*, not on a marketing campaign.
Muds, UO, EQ, now those sold on merits, Blizzard on the other hand tapped into a budding market with product recognition to back them up. The only merit WoW has, its that a lot of people play it.
wow also has very good gameplay, you must give credit where its due. wow is more fun to play and vanguard is a deeper game. vanguards combat and animations cant touch wow, but if wow had the depth of vanguard, then we would all be happy...still if you play games just for fun then wow wins hands down.
Combat in Vanguard is by far more deep and interactive than WoW, with better effects. Animations though, little beats WoW. It helps though that WoW's graphics looked dated when it was first released, now it just looks silly.
Speculation for you, fact for me. I am not gonna reveal you the source, because it's simply impossible. Anyway, apart from this, the whole discussion is rather pointless. You are trying to claim here that WoW is a good game, because milions play it and that it doesnt matter it has absolutely no originality. I disagree. End of discussion. Thank you for your opinion.
You are not going to reveal the source because it does not exist. That is why you are the only person spouting this $120 million dollar nonsense. Nothing backs up your claims and even common sense says that you are just flat out making up figures so you can feel justified about hounding a games success.
Does advertising somehow create high rated game reviews from both professional and customer sites? Perhaps that is part of your laughable mass hysteria theory huh?
Earlier you said all things popular suck. Please apply that theory to something like Goolge ok? I'm anxious to here that one.
Just please back up any of the facts you claim, disclose that you are talking about rumors or stop posting them as if they are facts. No one believes that you are the only person who somehow has secret access to Blizzard accounting which is the true reason for WoWs success.
Daffid stop calling me a liar. If the shoe fits... You can not prove me wrong and just because I am not gonna reveal you my source doesnt mean I'm lying. Nope, it just makes you look like a liar. Noone is forcing you to believe what I write. Forums are all about rumours and gossip. Thanks in no small part to yourself. But calling a liar is a bit too much. I am working as a gameplay designer for eastern europe single player RPG's (last one was very successful even in US) . and I hardly can give you any source for my claims, because some of the information were not official released. How convenient. I was saying WoW ripped off AC2 from the very beginning of WoW"s existence. You can see my posts history if you bother. It did not ripped EQ nor DaoC to that extent as it ripped AC2. From battle ground system and ranking throught the thousands of solo easy quests with no xp death penalties, same world rules, same crafting, same combat.. I'm still waiting for that pic of the article from a magazine in Slovak proving that Blizzard approached Games Workshop about the rights to Warhammer before releasing Warcraft. You seem to know a lot of stuff that no one but you seems to know and can't seem to produce any evidence of it either even though you say you have the evidence to prove it. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Well the warcraft - Warhammer, Starcraft - Warhammer 40k is a no brainer. Have never seen the article that people are talking about but ..... Damn... Warcraft 2 was just to much with the dwarfs flying unit ... hehe. A well no one cares and so on.
Well the warcraft - Warhammer, Starcraft - Warhammer 40k is a no brainer. Have never seen the article that people are talking about but ..... Damn... Warcraft 2 was just to much with the dwarfs flying unit ... hehe. A well no one cares and so on.
No one has ever seen the article he's talking about...at least not in the US and not on the internet. It was only in a small Slovakian magazine this is no longer in business...because of course they know these things in Slovakia.
Well..... I say the evidence is there. Just by looking at it. But Blizzard has brought a lot of joy into many peoples lives so i guess that is forgoten and eraced. Even if there was not a Warhammer(craft) it is quite obvious where the influence comes from. Would you not agree.. And yes we could go back to the roots of the lord of the rings. But we could. Damn i'm drunk.
It is owned by Sony which means they can do whatever they want with it. Remember, it has always been true that it is easier to destroy than to create.
Nice speculation made with a severe lack of information obtained.. Since Sony got Vanguard it has improved 100 times over--- but is still hurting from poor release, population wise.
The world is so big and since pop is not where it should be,there are many times you feel alone and the world feels empty
But Vanguard is a good game--- its different then wow- hard to compare the 2 honestly, if i had to i would say.....
Vanguard feels more adult oriented and WOW feels geared more towards a younger crowd
Vanguard community is alot more mature and helpful than WOW.
Well the warcraft - Warhammer, Starcraft - Warhammer 40k is a no brainer. Have never seen the article that people are talking about but ..... Damn... Warcraft 2 was just to much with the dwarfs flying unit ... hehe. A well no one cares and so on.
No one has ever seen the article he's talking about...at least not in the US and not on the internet. It was only in a small Slovakian magazine this is no longer in business...because of course they know these things in Slovakia.
Somehow after reading you sarcastic post, I don't feel insulted. Probably, because you rather insulted yourself with your own arrogance rather than Slovakian magazines.
Anyway after re-reading that old thread, I m quite confused what are you waiting for, because I made a pretty clear statement that I am not gonna scan anything for you even if you beg me on your knees.
Well..... I say the evidence is there. Just by looking at it. That's not evidence, that's called a rumor. But Blizzard has brought a lot of joy into many peoples lives so i guess that is forgoten and eraced. Yes, I'm sure that GamesWorkshop would have simply forgotten about it because it's not like Blizzard would have been infringing on any copyrights they might have or anything....oh wait.... Even if there was not a Warhammer(craft) it is quite obvious where the influence comes from. Would you not agree.. Blizzard has NEVER denied this. They have admitted more than once that they were big GamesWorkshop fans and OF COURSE it influenced them when they designed their own world. However, there's the rub, there's nothing at all preventing one company from using another company as inspiration. It's done all the time and it's completely legal. It's when you just copy someones ideas without getting permission to do so that there's a problem. You honestly think that if Blizzard approached GamesWorkshop and said, "Can we use your Warhammer World for our new game" and GamesWorkshop said "No." and then Blizzard went ahead and did it anyway, that GamesWorkshop would just say "Ah, lets just forget about it.". Yeah, I'm sure they would have done that....NOT!!! In fact GamesWorkshop has been asked if Blizzard had approached them about the rights to a game based on the the Warhammer universe and they've DENIED it. If you aren't going to believe GamesWorkshop, then who are you going to believe? Someone who claims to have read something in an article in a defunct Slovakian magazine in 1994 and just HAPPENS to remember it? For some reason I believe GamesWorkshop.
Well the warcraft - Warhammer, Starcraft - Warhammer 40k is a no brainer. Have never seen the article that people are talking about but ..... Damn... Warcraft 2 was just to much with the dwarfs flying unit ... hehe. A well no one cares and so on.
No one has ever seen the article he's talking about...at least not in the US and not on the internet. It was only in a small Slovakian magazine this is no longer in business...because of course they know these things in Slovakia.
Somehow after reading you sarcastic post, I don't feel insulted. Probably, because you rather insulted yourself with your own arrogance rather than Slovakian magazines.
Anyway after re-reading that old thread, I m quite confused what are you waiting for, because I made a pretty clear statement that I am not gonna scan anything for you even if you beg me on your knees.
Sorry you misunderstood, let me explain. When I said "because of course they know these things in Slovakia", that was not being sarcastic, it was when I said I was still waiting for the pic is when I was being sarcastic.
Well the warcraft - Warhammer, Starcraft - Warhammer 40k is a no brainer. Have never seen the article that people are talking about but ..... Damn... Warcraft 2 was just to much with the dwarfs flying unit ... hehe. A well no one cares and so on.
No one has ever seen the article he's talking about...at least not in the US and not on the internet. It was only in a small Slovakian magazine this is no longer in business...because of course they know these things in Slovakia.
Somehow after reading you sarcastic post, I don't feel insulted. Probably, because you rather insulted yourself with your own arrogance rather than Slovakian magazines.
Anyway after re-reading that old thread, I m quite confused what are you waiting for, because I made a pretty clear statement that I am not gonna scan anything for you even if you beg me on your knees.
Sorry you misunderstood, let me explain. When I said "because of course they know these things in Slovakia", that was not being sarcastic, it was when I said I was still waiting for the pic is when I was being sarcastic.
Hope that clears it up.
Nono you misunderstood. I actually was being sarcastic about not scanning it for you. Im scanning it right now and soon ill paste it here...
Comments
You are hillarious Thillian.
Now you are saying WoW spent $120 million dollars to copy a failing game that closed down its servers? I want you to take one minute and honestly listen to what you are saying.
Then you say all this advertising has millions of people continually playing a game they DO NOT LIKE year after year? That is even funnier in a sad sort of way.
Mass hysteria.... That must be it.
AC2 has more than its fair share of issues that weren't just about the game being to easy. The game was rushed out and suffered as a result. That is a point you continually overlook. Marketing might be able to get people to try a game, even a bad one, but it will not entice them to keep playing. If a game sucks large chunks of people will leave.
Can people see quality? Sure, when they have to reboot due to a memmory leak every hour, when quests fail due to a bug, disembodied heads floating 2 feet above the rest of the avatar, lauchers that fail to download a simple client, NPCs that do not spawn during a holiday event, etc etc. That is not evey talking about non tangibles like quality of story or depth of concepts and the like. Some games have it, others do not.
The sims online had one of the largest budgets in MMO history and is the best selling series of PC games in history. Why isn't it more popular if you advertising theory is correct? Instead the game is closed down and failed.
While we are on the topic, do you have ANY PROOF to back up your claims that Blizzard spent $40 million dollars to market the game at launch? Please share.
If AV battles took 7 hours before and 30min now, how can you say wow takes more time now? Since TBC everything takes less time really. Dungeons in outland are shorter and BG is more intense. This allows casual players that cannot sit and play 7 hours straight to enjoy the game more.
You absolutely missed the point. AV battles sometimes took more than 7h. But it was intensive fight between A vs H and it was fun. It was not about kill that boss NPC in 30min and take the honor. People went to BG to fight against the opposite faction not to grind honor for stupid purples over and over again. And pls tell me are you enjoying now those AV battles ? Like rush to opposite faction fortress and kill that boss over and over again ? Where is PVP in that ? It seems more like PVE to me
Has anyone ever stopped to ask, if WoW is just an EQ clone and everyone else is cloning WoW then why is WoW so much more popular?
Because I leveled my first char to lvl60 on AMD 1ghz, 768MB RAM, geforce 2 gts 64MB without any serious performance problems. VG is very intensive HW game. And now that I have powerfull rig I wont play old games with obsolete graphic on it.
Those 7 hour AV fights were not intensive PvP battles. They were just a bunch of people running to the middle of the map to kill each other over and over to farm honor. That is why they lasted that long, because people didn't care about winning the objectives. Ending the game sometimes meant people would just end up with a wait in the que for the next game.
There were some great battles that did struggle back and forth over objectives, but they were the exception and not really the norm. I think the new system is much better and people actually try to win and defend. For me I get more strategic AVs now than in the past by a long shot. Objectives pushing back and forth with defenders and attackers trying to win and not just mindlessly kill to get honor.
It isn't perfect, but it is still fun.
Because I leveled my first char to lvl60 on AMD 1ghz, 768MB RAM, geforce 2 gts 64MB without any serious performance problems. VG is very intensive HW game. And now that I have powerfull rig I wont play old games with obsolete graphic on it.
What is your point, that millions of people only play WoW because they have not upgraded their computer for the last 4 years? If what you are trying to suggest is the norm then WoW subs would be declining over the last 4 years while other games would be growing in numbers as people upgrade their computers, but that isn't the case is it.
Thillian do you realy belive the utter crap you spew? After reading thru this post, it just boggles me that it seems like you truely belive what you are saying.
I have played WoW since release, i have tried out just about every other mmorpg since then, all the ( wow killers) .... None come close to doing what WoW has done. Yeah thats just an opinion that i have, I could be totaly wrong, But it sure seems like ALOT of other ppl see it the same way. According to you one of the only reasons anyone plays WoW is because of advertising, I for one had never heard of it before i bought it. I understand if you just dont like the game, but please for the love of god stop just making crap up trying to prove your point that is total BS to start with.
One makes money, the other doesn't. Pretty simple.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
Daffid stop calling me a liar. You can not prove me wrong and just because I am not gonna reveal you my source doesnt mean I'm lying. Noone is forcing you to believe what I write. Forums are all about rumours and gossip. But calling a liar is a bit too much. I am working as a gameplay designer for eastern europe single player RPG's (last one was very successful even in US) . and I hardly can give you any source for my claims, because some of the information were not official released.
I was saying WoW ripped off AC2 from the very beginning of WoW"s existence. You can see my posts history if you bother. It did not ripped EQ nor DaoC to that extent as it ripped AC2. From battle ground system and ranking throught the thousands of solo easy quests with no xp death penalties, same world rules, same crafting, same combat..
You've got to bring some better argument into this discussion that just millions play it. Is this all you manage? I tried to read your post a few times. But the only reason ou gave why we should think WoW is good is that it is played by a milion people.
I am not doing what masses do in other areas. I am not wearing the same clothes as majority, I am not eating the same food, nor listening to the same music and I don't like mass-popular movies and blockbusters either.
REALITY CHECK
What on earth makes you think it is my responsibility to prove you wrong? Not that I haven't, but when you present rumors and speculation as statements of FACT, then you are being untruthful and in effect lying. Anyone can make internet claims about their pedigree as if that somehow makes them privy to secret knowledge no one else has, but that doesn't make it a FACT. There is a reason you are the only person to think this $120 million dollar budget is real. Stop and think about that for a moment will you? Everything about the games launch flies directly in the face of the misinformation you spread. Do you ever wonder why no one agrees with you?
Second, I was disagreeing with people who say WoW is popular because millions of people play it. Please try to read more carefully next time. That includes you in case you failed to understand. I know why WoW is popular and the millions of people are a result of those reasons, not the cause. You on the other hand have an interesting list of reasons why it is popular ranging from mass hysteria to a team of marketers brain washing subscribers to play a game they hate. Will you try to step back and listen to how ludicrous that sounds?
Call me crazy but WoW crafting looks and smells like just most old MMOs crafting of click combine results, battlegrounds were also in DAOC as were similar style quests. Again you are the only person I have ever seen think Blizzard spent $120 million dollars to clone AC2, but feel free. I do not disagree that WoW took ideas from many games, but the fact that Blizzard hired former Everquest raid leaders to help design their game speaks more of the truth than anything you wish people would believe. But knock yourself out trying to convince people, you are doing a bang up job so far.
Yeh because, Blizzard spent more money on marketing campaign before release (40$mil) than Sigil for the whole development of Vanguard (30$mil)
It's like comparing Titanic movie with 200$+budget with Waking Life that had 2.5$mil. Apparently Titanic saw much MORE people and many more will say it's a great movie, while waking life has much smaller fan base.
Marketing in the Netherlands here for MMO's was non existant before WoW (now you see the tv commercial sometimes) but I can tell you that that game spread on sheer word of mouth in my community and had *nothing* to do with any adds and the like which didn't really become visible till the Celebrity adds were made a few years in.
I know many people who never played MMO's and thought paying monthly was the last thing they'd ever do change their mind in an instant after they got to play the open beta.
This game sold itself on *merits*, not on a marketing campaign.
Muds, UO, EQ, now those sold on merits, Blizzard on the other hand tapped into a budding market with product recognition to back them up. The only merit WoW has, its that a lot of people play it.
wow also has very good gameplay, you must give credit where its due. wow is more fun to play and vanguard is a deeper game. vanguards combat and animations cant touch wow, but if wow had the depth of vanguard, then we would all be happy...still if you play games just for fun then wow wins hands down.
Speculation for you, fact for me. I am not gonna reveal you the source, because it's simply impossible. Anyway, apart from this, the whole discussion is rather pointless. You are trying to claim here that WoW is a good game, because milions play it and that it doesnt matter it has absolutely no originality. I disagree. End of discussion. Thank you for your opinion.
REALITY CHECK
Yeh because, Blizzard spent more money on marketing campaign before release (40$mil) than Sigil for the whole development of Vanguard (30$mil)
It's like comparing Titanic movie with 200$+budget with Waking Life that had 2.5$mil. Apparently Titanic saw much MORE people and many more will say it's a great movie, while waking life has much smaller fan base.
Marketing in the Netherlands here for MMO's was non existant before WoW (now you see the tv commercial sometimes) but I can tell you that that game spread on sheer word of mouth in my community and had *nothing* to do with any adds and the like which didn't really become visible till the Celebrity adds were made a few years in.
I know many people who never played MMO's and thought paying monthly was the last thing they'd ever do change their mind in an instant after they got to play the open beta.
This game sold itself on *merits*, not on a marketing campaign.
Muds, UO, EQ, now those sold on merits, Blizzard on the other hand tapped into a budding market with product recognition to back them up. The only merit WoW has, its that a lot of people play it.
wow also has very good gameplay, you must give credit where its due. wow is more fun to play and vanguard is a deeper game. vanguards combat and animations cant touch wow, but if wow had the depth of vanguard, then we would all be happy...still if you play games just for fun then wow wins hands down.
Combat in Vanguard is by far more deep and interactive than WoW, with better effects. Animations though, little beats WoW. It helps though that WoW's graphics looked dated when it was first released, now it just looks silly.
Darkfall Travelogues!
You are not going to reveal the source because it does not exist. That is why you are the only person spouting this $120 million dollar nonsense. Nothing backs up your claims and even common sense says that you are just flat out making up figures so you can feel justified about hounding a games success.
Does advertising somehow create high rated game reviews from both professional and customer sites? Perhaps that is part of your laughable mass hysteria theory huh?
Earlier you said all things popular suck. Please apply that theory to something like Goolge ok? I'm anxious to here that one.
Just please back up any of the facts you claim, disclose that you are talking about rumors or stop posting them as if they are facts. No one believes that you are the only person who somehow has secret access to Blizzard accounting which is the true reason for WoWs success.
Wau, another long post about the same thing. You really should reconsider what are you trying to achieve here.
REALITY CHECK
You're flattering me if you stil remember what I wrote here even a year ago. I hardly remember who you are. Can you refresh my memory a little?
REALITY CHECK
Well the warcraft - Warhammer, Starcraft - Warhammer 40k is a no brainer. Have never seen the article that people are talking about but ..... Damn... Warcraft 2 was just to much with the dwarfs flying unit ... hehe. A well no one cares and so on.
It's was 3 months ago and how could I forget my favorite clown?
http://www.mpog.net/discussion2.cfm/post/1962624#1962624
No one has ever seen the article he's talking about...at least not in the US and not on the internet. It was only in a small Slovakian magazine this is no longer in business...because of course they know these things in Slovakia.
Well..... I say the evidence is there. Just by looking at it. But Blizzard has brought a lot of joy into many peoples lives so i guess that is forgoten and eraced. Even if there was not a Warhammer(craft) it is quite obvious where the influence comes from. Would you not agree.. And yes we could go back to the roots of the lord of the rings. But we could. Damn i'm drunk.
Nice speculation made with a severe lack of information obtained.. Since Sony got Vanguard it has improved 100 times over--- but is still hurting from poor release, population wise.
The world is so big and since pop is not where it should be,there are many times you feel alone and the world feels empty
But Vanguard is a good game--- its different then wow- hard to compare the 2 honestly, if i had to i would say.....
Vanguard feels more adult oriented and WOW feels geared more towards a younger crowd
Vanguard community is alot more mature and helpful than WOW.
Vanguard is a lot more immersive than wow.
WoW's pvp is alot better than Vanguard.
WoW for pvp==Vanguard for pve
Theres some comparisons
No one has ever seen the article he's talking about...at least not in the US and not on the internet. It was only in a small Slovakian magazine this is no longer in business...because of course they know these things in Slovakia.
Somehow after reading you sarcastic post, I don't feel insulted. Probably, because you rather insulted yourself with your own arrogance rather than Slovakian magazines.
Anyway after re-reading that old thread, I m quite confused what are you waiting for, because I made a pretty clear statement that I am not gonna scan anything for you even if you beg me on your knees.
REALITY CHECK
No one has ever seen the article he's talking about...at least not in the US and not on the internet. It was only in a small Slovakian magazine this is no longer in business...because of course they know these things in Slovakia.
Somehow after reading you sarcastic post, I don't feel insulted. Probably, because you rather insulted yourself with your own arrogance rather than Slovakian magazines.
Anyway after re-reading that old thread, I m quite confused what are you waiting for, because I made a pretty clear statement that I am not gonna scan anything for you even if you beg me on your knees.
Sorry you misunderstood, let me explain. When I said "because of course they know these things in Slovakia", that was not being sarcastic, it was when I said I was still waiting for the pic is when I was being sarcastic.
Hope that clears it up.
No one has ever seen the article he's talking about...at least not in the US and not on the internet. It was only in a small Slovakian magazine this is no longer in business...because of course they know these things in Slovakia.
Somehow after reading you sarcastic post, I don't feel insulted. Probably, because you rather insulted yourself with your own arrogance rather than Slovakian magazines.
Anyway after re-reading that old thread, I m quite confused what are you waiting for, because I made a pretty clear statement that I am not gonna scan anything for you even if you beg me on your knees.
Sorry you misunderstood, let me explain. When I said "because of course they know these things in Slovakia", that was not being sarcastic, it was when I said I was still waiting for the pic is when I was being sarcastic.
Hope that clears it up.
Nono you misunderstood. I actually was being sarcastic about not scanning it for you. Im scanning it right now and soon ill paste it here...
REALITY CHECK