PvP in WAR is much more strategic and the RvR is something all of us old WoW players want back, which was world pvp from the old days. Its almost the exact same feeling, except more people on each side and objectives and blowing up castle doors.
The proof will be in the pudding, for those of you that aren't a beta/elder you will convert with time.
There are loads of differances between WAR and WOW, but they can all be boiled down to one BIG one in the end:
WAR = Team centric game. Its all about working together as a group in PQs and Scenarios, as a guild in keep captures, as a realm in city sieges. Your aim is to level up the city and guild, while trying to keep the other side down
WOW = Solo centric game. Its all about earning loot for YOUR character. Even when you raid with your guild, its about loot for YOUR character. There is no benefit for your guild or realm.
There are loads of differances between WAR and WOW, but they can all be boiled down to one BIG one in the end: WAR = Team centric game. Its all about working together as a group in PQs and Scenarios, as a guild in keep captures, as a realm in city sieges. Your aim is to level up the city and guild, while trying to keep the other side down WOW = Solo centric game. Its all about earning loot for YOUR character. Even when you raid with your guild, its about loot for YOUR character. There is no benefit for your guild or realm.
This is probably the best single point someone can take from this thread, and it's sad that it took so many pages that few people may see it. Maybe because this is one of very few objective posts here.
WAR is being billed as primarily an RvR-centric game
WoW is primarily PvE-centric.
Every other difference in how the two games operate grow out of this
You make it sound like Horde v Alliance isn't RvR and that in WoW you can't raid I mean 'siege' other realms capitol cities.
Having RvR and being built around RvR are two very different things. At every step of game design Mythic stopped and said how is this going to effect RvR. Every zone is built around RvR, every ability is built around it, the renown system is an integral part of character growth whereis honor is just for getting items etc.
WoW just tossed some PvP rules/battlegrounds on at the end and then made the arena which isn't really the same as what many want from PvP.
You make it sound like Horde v Alliance isn't RvR and that in WoW you can't raid I mean 'siege' other realms capitol cities.
It's very different when a game is build around PvP and one that has only 4 BGs and arena as end game PvP.
Sure you can raid enemy cities in WOW... but do you? Why not? Because there is no point in it.
You can also swim around for 24 hours a day in WOW. You can craft useless stuff 24 hours a day. You can fly in circles 24 hours a day. Why don't people do it? Because there is no point in it.
Hey if WOW had any good massive progressive and objective based PvP system, I would be playing it right now. There is no point in WOW PVP besides item grinding and its all instanced into the 4 BGs. World PvP is pretty much dead.
Horde vs alliance in WOW is more like, instanced small scale, item-based grinding, repetitive BG /arena play. It's not a massive battle or war like it should be. Heck I've even had bigger fights in warcraft 3 than in the WoW which is supposed to be an MMO LMAO.
You can tell people it was designed around this that and the other, doesn't mean people will be interested. RvR in WAR is no different than WoW. Both have BGs, both have world objective PvP, both have city sieges. The only difference is one company's PR machine is all about RvR and one is about the whole experience.
Not saying WAR isn't fun or that WoW is awesome. Frankly I'm playing CoH and WAR beta right now so I'm neither a fanboi or hater, just rational.
The closest thing WoW really has to meaningful open-world pvp = some zones in Outlands provide buffs when your faction owns 'control points'. You can also gain 'tokens' for pvp kills in certain areas, under certain conditions.
Take WoW/TBC/ Hellfire Peninsula for example. There are 3 control points that either faction can take over to provide their side buffs in that zone. These control points are pretty much just buildings/arena's with a flag in the middle. It would be different if there were siege weapons, guards, etc.,.. for these areas, but there aren't. You just wander from point to point and recapture them freely if the enemy has already moved on. Nothing to resist you... nothing to do to capture the point, other than standing next to a flag. You don't even need to click on anything... not like you would with flags in any of the 4 BG's (capture flag points in AB and AV or carry the flag in WSG or EOTS). Lich King will bring certain aspects of siege and all, but it's not really 'open-world' if it's only in 1 or 2 zones in an expansion, is it?
If open-world PvP were more meaningful and more wide-spread, it would certain create some new twists. I mean, it would be great to see some variety in situation/environment for PvP... and for the outcome of the battles to provide some meaning. But there also needs to be a measure in place to keep people from griefing just for the sake of griefing.
You can tell people it was designed around this that and the other, doesn't mean people will be interested. RvR in WAR is no different than WoW. Both have BGs, both have world objective PvP, both have city sieges. The only difference is one company's PR machine is all about RvR and one is about the whole experience. Not saying WAR isn't fun or that WoW is awesome. Frankly I'm playing CoH and WAR beta right now so I'm neither a fanboi or hater, just rational.
There is no RvR in WoW, go ask a WoW dev they'd never in a million years call their game RvR because there is no RvR goals. WoW is based around PvE its made for PvE...all the content made for the game originally was for PvE (which is why city sieges while fun at first didnt' do anything for you or to your enemy it had no meaning it was a worthless player event people enjoyed for a laugh and once arena's & bg's opened it died off). WoW's timeline does not have the two factions in direct conflict with each other. There are some outland / far off areas that you can open pvp over but they dont' mean anything to your side. They get you nothing, your city does not 'prosper' because you take an area. There is nothing to gain from PvP in WoW but Loot after hours & days of grinding which makes it a NON RvR game with some Open World PvP. There's no reason for you to fight for and with your own side, there is no reason to build community outside of a guild.
WoW is like EQ1 & 2 there is no direct conflict and while the 2 sides dislike each other they are not in an open war with each other. That is essential for RvR.
Realms races working together & teamplay with your realm mates even if you dont care for some of them is essential to an RvR game. WoW has non of this. Its a dungeon quest game with some nifty theme park areas to entertain people who like PvP but dont care if it has any meaning too it.
While this wont' sway' wow players..I'll be frank...I really don't give a damn. WoW is what it is and its good and popular for it. WAR is what it is and its not damn WoW...its something different without being overwhelmingly unique.
You can tell people it was designed around this that and the other, doesn't mean people will be interested. RvR in WAR is no different than WoW. Both have BGs, both have world objective PvP, both have city sieges. The only difference is one company's PR machine is all about RvR and one is about the whole experience. Not saying WAR isn't fun or that WoW is awesome. Frankly I'm playing CoH and WAR beta right now so I'm neither a fanboi or hater, just rational.
*facepalm* and we should believe you're in beta -why- Mr. 33 posts? I'll play the game myself and decide.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
You can tell people it was designed around this that and the other, doesn't mean people will be interested. RvR in WAR is no different than WoW. Both have BGs, both have world objective PvP, both have city sieges. The only difference is one company's PR machine is all about RvR and one is about the whole experience. Not saying WAR isn't fun or that WoW is awesome. Frankly I'm playing CoH and WAR beta right now so I'm neither a fanboi or hater, just rational.
A game that has 4 BG and arena as end game PvP is not built around PvP LMAO.
World objectives in WOW? They are a joke with no real purpose other than subpar gear and PvE levelling purposes. City sieges? In WoW that's a good objective? ummm...
I truly doubt you are in beta if you present that the PvP content is similar.
You can tell people it was designed around this that and the other, doesn't mean people will be interested. RvR in WAR is no different than WoW. Both have BGs, both have world objective PvP, both have city sieges. The only difference is one company's PR machine is all about RvR and one is about the whole experience. Not saying WAR isn't fun or that WoW is awesome. Frankly I'm playing CoH and WAR beta right now so I'm neither a fanboi or hater, just rational.
A game that has 4 BG and arena as end game PvP is not built around PvP LMAO.
World objectives in WOW? They are a joke with no real purpose other than subpar gear and PvE levelling purposes. City sieges? In WoW that's a good objective? ummm...
I truly doubt you are in beta if you present that the PvP content is similar.
Ofc it''s similar... it's kinda like looking at an apple and an pear... they both are fruits, they both are sweet, they both have a skin, both have vitamins and are healthy...
But there are differences and the most notable one is the flavor and the texture...
Same with BGs and Scenarios... they both are pvp maps where 1 team fights another over objectives and repeat "over and over"... but the flavor and textures are different... meaning they have different objectives, different limits and different ways of playing )
Also you can argue "but there are PQs and stuff" well wow has daily quests and sadly every wow fan will say "well that's kinda the same thing to me" even tho it isn't.... but they are repeatable quests that you do to get rewards...
But we're beating a dead horse again... we already states multiple times that they are both mmorpgs and ofc they have similarities ^^
No one's in denial there are similiarities it just irks soem of us that people never look past the initial 'cover' like people may thinkg Daily's are the same thing as PQ's but they really aren't. On the most basic level they are of course but its that inability for people to look beyond the basic level that irks some posters here off.
Anyone looking or believing everything WAR does is 100 percent unique and in not someway similiar to something else or evolved from something else are just as in denial as WoW fanbois that believe their game was original (rofl).
I look forward to WAR because of the differences once you get beyond the basic things. If there only that basic level to go by I'd be deeply turned off since I can get basic non teambased game play from WoW. But its the focus on team and realm and everyone getting the same oppertunities in the game that got me interested in WAR. The evolved & innovated features and the focus on productive / meaningful pvp goals got me excited & hyped for WAR.
Beta testing it took me to the next level tho I won't call myself a fanboi since I'm still skeptical on some key points they've not talked much on yet.
It kinda reminds me of the whole creation vs evolution thing... One side going "it's like this and that" and the other going "but you're wrong... i have evidence"... and then they throw around their evidence till the sunrise and in the end they both still believe the same thing as when they started the "debate"
people believe what they want to believe... sadly... and no amount of evidence will throw them around... you can tell a anti-war-fan 100 differences in scenarios and BG and he will still point out the similarities... and in the end either ignore you or go "you're stupid, lol" before he ignores you...
But then again... we're prolly writing for the people who read then forums and are not yet decided and not the "zelous fanatics" on the forums ^^
hm... elite member with 50 posts? can someone link me how this "elite member" thing works on a PM?
Removed email sent to beta testers since it could be used by those not in beta to say they are. I'm done arguing over released PR and not actual gameplay. We'll take this back up after NDA drops.
*gazes at Solude's post and tries not to laugh* hmm drama much? Look I believe your in the Beta but I also believe you've not been in long or your only looking at the top layer of whats going on in the game which is why so many of us..several of us infact are ALSO in the beta see things differently than you.
To be honest tho you are completely wrong on WoW being an RvR game..its a PvE Dungeon / Quest game thats the entire Central focus of the design and has been since its Beta stages. There's a huge difference. Yes there's 2 factions and there are some open pvp zones but its Central design purpose, its reason for being, and how it benefits you are completely different from WAR.
Anyway no need to yell dude dont let people rile you because your post count is low.
Prodotes the title & stars here are inrelation to the quality of your posts not the number.
Sorry the font from the previous post is from the beta invite and I just didn't bother changing it.
I just think each game is what the player wants it to be. I'm not interested in PvP/RvR in any capacity, not in WAR or AoC or WoW or DAoC... UO was the only time I PvPed and who knows maybe UO ruined it for me going forward. That said I don't think I'm alone, and I don't think my counter the person who doesn't care for PvE doesn't exist. So finding reasons to enjoy PvP in WAR or WoW is really about the player not about the game design.
That said I don't see anything in WAR RvR wise that would make me want to get off the PvE train other than the look see experience.
Sorry the font from the previous post is from the beta invite and I just didn't bother changing it. I just think each game is what the player wants it to be. I'm not interested in PvP/RvR in any capacity, not in WAR or AoC or WoW or DAoC... UO was the only time I PvPed and who knows maybe UO ruined it for me going forward. That said I don't think I'm alone, and I don't think my counter the person who doesn't care for PvE doesn't exist. So finding reasons to enjoy PvP in WAR or WoW is really about the player not about the game design. That said I don't see anything in WAR RvR wise that would make me want to get off the PvE train other than the look see experience.
See now I can understand where your coming from. If all you do is the PvE I can understand the opinion that very similiar to WoW. People looking for a diverse unique new PvE experience will be disappointed. I think the only major PvE difference between WoW & WAR is 1. the PvE counts towards realm points 2. its not the major focus of the game and 3. there are certain ways you go about things & the game goes about things that are inheritantly different than WoW (can't explain cause of nda). But as a whole the PvE is pretty much like most any other PvE games except its Raid Focus Free thank god.
Personally I hated UO's pvp system even the Dev's admited it didn't work out the way they thought it would they never expected players to do what they did and thus it was chaos trying to get people to play their game for more than just murdering each other. I'm a bit more of the team / realm mind set than I am the guild me me me mind set. I think this is why my opinions will highly differ from some people.
WAR's pvp system works for me..because teams & sides are clearly defined. There are in game goals instead of personal how many people can I gank and steal their loot from goals. Its why I could never get into WoW's pvp or even EQ1 or UO's pvp. It wasn't really team goal based it was lets screw someone over based or me me me based.
I'm kinda glad to have a game i can jump between the pve train and the pvp train at will.
Sorry the font from the previous post is from the beta invite and I just didn't bother changing it. I just think each game is what the player wants it to be. I'm not interested in PvP/RvR in any capacity, not in WAR or AoC or WoW or DAoC... UO was the only time I PvPed and who knows maybe UO ruined it for me going forward. That said I don't think I'm alone, and I don't think my counter the person who doesn't care for PvE doesn't exist. So finding reasons to enjoy PvP in WAR or WoW is really about the player not about the game design. That said I don't see anything in WAR RvR wise that would make me want to get off the PvE train other than the look see experience.
See now I can understand where your coming from. If all you do is the PvE I can understand the opinion that very similiar to WoW. People looking for a diverse unique new PvE experience will be disappointed. I think the only major PvE difference between WoW & WAR is 1. the PvE counts towards realm points 2. its not the major focus of the game and 3. there are certain ways you go about things & the game goes about things that are inheritantly different than WoW (can't explain cause of nda). But as a whole the PvE is pretty much like most any other PvE games except its Raid Focus Free thank god.
Personally I hated UO's pvp system even the Dev's admited it didn't work out the way they thought it would they never expected players to do what they did and thus it was chaos trying to get people to play their game for more than just murdering each other. I'm a bit more of the team / realm mind set than I am the guild me me me mind set. I think this is why my opinions will highly differ from some people.
WAR's pvp system works for me..because teams & sides are clearly defined. There are in game goals instead of personal how many people can I gank and steal their loot from goals. Its why I could never get into WoW's pvp or even EQ1 or UO's pvp. It wasn't really team goal based it was lets screw someone over based or me me me based.
I'm kinda glad to have a game i can jump between the pve train and the pvp train at will.
I like the way Mythic took server events, sized them down, and keep the epicness (PQs). There ARE new types of PvE being introduced...so in a way it is different, but not drastically. I'm glad we won't have the raid mentality as well.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
For me at least what makes WAR different is the structure of the RVR and PQ's. Everything is teired in such a manner that all aspects of the game are available very early one. Everyone can contribute and compete. I cant go into details but for me WAR's RVR is simply more fun for me then the Battlegrounds of WAR. Not to mention the storyline intermeshes nicely between RVR and PVE. They dont feel exclusive of each other.
In anycase I like WAR, Liked Wow in the day as well. Id personally at least try WAR. Thats just me though.
The big difference from a Wow player ??? WAR is being made at 1/50th of the development resources Blizzard has. WRONG - Blizzard was not the giant it is now when they began developing WOW. hence no seamless open worlds, but LOADED screens between zones WRONG - The loading screens are not between zones but between Tiers so you will hardly EVER see a loading screen unless your progressing between Tiers. The fact that they are there at all is a testament to the increased graphics quality of Warhammer (Unlike WOW which has such low resolution graphics you can run through half the world without needing a loading screen - Quality of Quantity is the key to gaming, and quality has progressed from the days of WOWs development) hence no underwater worlds. Meh - and? Cry me a river.Underwater worlds wasn't on my list of features I look for in a new MMO was it on yours? hence no flying units (and Warhammer lore is FULL of flying units). WRONG - They have stated they already have a 5 year+ cycle of planned updates and expansions and are seriously considering flying mounts as we speak. and about a 66% cut in the promised siege cities even 3 months before release. Oh 66%, see what you did there? you turned 4 things into 66% to make it sound more impressive. Unfortunately the majority of people who actually read the reason for the changes agree they made the correct decision and if you don't like it they had the honesty to tell you in time for you to cancel your pre-order. Unlike Funcom's deceit and lies until launch. Those still believing that WAR has better PvP animation : you just type Warhammer video in Google and look at ALL the video stuff you can find. WRONG -Warhammer's animations have many more cycles and detail than WOW's. Spell effects and combat effects are a whole magnitude more intense. Maybe YOU should go look at some of the newer videos before commenting on this? The argument of 2 years old or one year old or players NOT used to playing were already raised here a million time. Mostly I think the videos are being played by some 80 year old. Don't understand what your trying to say here LOL "argument of 2 years old?" WTH? No excuses: the PvP fighting in War is slow with "gliding" characters and incredibly stiff. Even LOTRO had better animated avatars (and that says a LOT). WRONG -Warhammer PVP is fast and furious, there are no gliding characters, unless you mean the Magus? He's meant to slide he's standing on a hovering disc. ROFL The end result is that you'll end up with DAoC2 (the days are short) but this time with battleground instances (with server clusters lol) and a very slow leveling process through endless public quest grinding to finally come to a "deus ex machina" - a final capitol battle every 2 weeks or so .... of which half(!) will be instanced btw (making the "famous" final epic open world pvp rather "small"). WRONG -Levelling can be done exclusively via PVP if you wish, or PVE or combination of all of them, your information is a complete fabrication. Instancing is necessary due to the increased graphics quality of the game and help elimante lag, once your in the city it's all one world. NO PVE raiding at all (unless you want to call ONE instanced end boss a viable raid.) WRONG -The game was designed from the ground up to NOT be Raid orientated if yo want to sit and repeat RAIDS all day long go back to WOW. There are Huge PVE camps and settlements that RAID sized groups can take on if it's just big PVE fights you want. Oh and they are NOT instanced unlike WOW except for the final boss. Also the fact your avatar turns into a chicken when entering lower zones is a real laugh. CORRECT - Good isn't it. The makers of WAR themselves (with the ever present and yelling "Led Zeppelin" Paul on top) already stated that Warhammer is an "awesome" game and not even an open ended MMORPG in the real sense. What are you taking about LOL Is WOW open ended? Is LOTR open ended? Is EQ2 open ended? Is AOC open ended? answer; No, No, No and No. The only open ended MMO with more than 10 people playing is EvE. So don't give me that rubbish. In fact Warhammer is more open ended than all of the above except EvE, since the end game content is forever changing from week to week depending on factors such as which city is being fought over, which level your city or enemies city is at, which keeps need defending or taken, etc etc Better than WOWs neverending RAID, Rinse, Repeat. Nothing changes, same tactics, same RAID encounter, same LOOT. PVP in Warhammer allows for constant ever changing challenge.
The professions are far too limited, the world far too small (certainly after the 66% cut in City sieges) and the end game is purely based on RvR with EVER repeating grind to... WRONG - They removed the cities and added Huge fortresses, the world is not 1% smaller than it was before. The world is bigger than WOW's. There are some Huge PVE non-instanced 'dungeon' encounters at end game as well as ever changing PVP combat, tomb unlocks, armour sets, guild levels, mount armour, city sieges and defence. That "EVER repeating grind" you mention is the very definition of WOWs end game RAID.
The big difference from a Wow player ??? WAR is being made at 1/50th of the development resources Blizzard has. WRONG - Blizzard was not the giant it is now when they began developing WOW. hence no seamless open worlds, but LOADED screens between zones WRONG - The loading screens are not between zones but between Tiers so you will hardly EVER see a loading screen unless your progressing between Tiers. The fact that they are there at all is a testament to the increased graphics quality of Warhammer (Unlike WOW which has such low resolution graphics you can run through half the world without needing a loading screen - Quality of Quantity is the key to gaming, and quality has progressed from the days of WOWs development) hence no underwater worlds. Meh - and? Cry me a river.Underwater worlds wasn't on my list of features I look for in a new MMO was it on yours? hence no flying units (and Warhammer lore is FULL of flying units). WRONG - They have stated they already have a 5 year+ cycle of planned updates and expansions and are seriously considering flying mounts as we speak. and about a 66% cut in the promised siege cities even 3 months before release. Oh 66%, see what you did there? you turned 4 things into 66% to make it sound more impressive. Unfortunately the majority of people who actually read the reason for the changes agree they made the correct decision and if you don't like it they had the honesty to tell you in time for you to cancel your pre-order. Unlike Funcom's deceit and lies until launch. Those still believing that WAR has better PvP animation : you just type Warhammer video in Google and look at ALL the video stuff you can find. WRONG -Warhammer's animations have many more cycles and detail than WOW's. Spell effects and combat effects are a whole magnitude more intense. Maybe YOU should go look at some of the newer videos before commenting on this? The argument of 2 years old or one year old or players NOT used to playing were already raised here a million time. Mostly I think the videos are being played by some 80 year old. Don't understand what your trying to say here LOL "argument of 2 years old?" WTH? No excuses: the PvP fighting in War is slow with "gliding" characters and incredibly stiff. Even LOTRO had better animated avatars (and that says a LOT). WRONG -Warhammer PVP is fast and furious, there are no gliding characters, unless you mean the Magus? He's meant to slide he's standing on a hovering disc. ROFL The end result is that you'll end up with DAoC2 (the days are short) but this time with battleground instances (with server clusters lol) and a very slow leveling process through endless public quest grinding to finally come to a "deus ex machina" - a final capitol battle every 2 weeks or so .... of which half(!) will be instanced btw (making the "famous" final epic open world pvp rather "small"). WRONG -Levelling can be done exclusively via PVP if you wish, or PVE or combination of all of them, your information is a complete fabrication. Instancing is necessary due to the increased graphics quality of the game and help elimante lag, once your in the city it's all one world. NO PVE raiding at all (unless you want to call ONE instanced end boss a viable raid.) WRONG -The game was designed from the ground up to NOT be Raid orientated if yo want to sit and repeat RAIDS all day long go back to WOW. There are Huge PVE camps and settlements that RAID sized groups can take on if it's just big PVE fights you want. Oh and they are NOT instanced unlike WOW except for the final boss. Also the fact your avatar turns into a chicken when entering lower zones is a real laugh. CORRECT - Good isn't it. The makers of WAR themselves (with the ever present and yelling "Led Zeppelin" Paul on top) already stated that Warhammer is an "awesome" game and not even an open ended MMORPG in the real sense. What are you taking about LOL Is WOW open ended? Is LOTR open ended? Is EQ2 open ended? Is AOC open ended? answer; No, No, No and No. The only open ended MMO with more than 10 people playing is EvE. So don't give me that rubbish. In fact Warhammer is more open ended than all of the above except EvE, since the end game content is forever changing from week to week depending on factors such as which city is being fought over, which level your city or enemies city is at, which keeps need defending or taken, etc etc Better than WOWs neverending RAID, Rinse, Repeat. Nothing changes, same tactics, same RAID encounter, same LOOT. PVP in Warhammer allows for constant ever changing challenge.
The professions are far too limited, the world far too small (certainly after the 66% cut in City sieges) and the end game is purely based on RvR with EVER repeating grind to... WRONG - They removed the cities and added Huge fortresses, the world is not 1% smaller than it was before. The world is bigger than WOW's. There are some Huge PVE non-instanced 'dungeon' encounters at end game as well as ever changing PVP combat, tomb unlocks, armour sets, guild levels, mount armour, city sieges and defence. That "EVER repeating grind" you mention is the very definition of WOWs end game RAID.
Learn the facts and you will love WAR.
Very informative. Both sides, good arguments, and i got to know all the features. Sweet!
Comments
You want to know the exact difference between WAR and WoW?
WAR you login for the purpose of just killing stuff to kill stuff and to take anything they had away. In WoW you login to get loot.
PvP in WAR is much more strategic and the RvR is something all of us old WoW players want back, which was world pvp from the old days. Its almost the exact same feeling, except more people on each side and objectives and blowing up castle doors.
The proof will be in the pudding, for those of you that aren't a beta/elder you will convert with time.
There are loads of differances between WAR and WOW, but they can all be boiled down to one BIG one in the end:
WAR = Team centric game. Its all about working together as a group in PQs and Scenarios, as a guild in keep captures, as a realm in city sieges. Your aim is to level up the city and guild, while trying to keep the other side down
WOW = Solo centric game. Its all about earning loot for YOUR character. Even when you raid with your guild, its about loot for YOUR character. There is no benefit for your guild or realm.
______________
Mark E. Cooper
AKA Tohrment
Proud member of Damned Souls since 2007.
http://www.damnedsouls.eu
This is probably the best single point someone can take from this thread, and it's sad that it took so many pages that few people may see it. Maybe because this is one of very few objective posts here.
WAR is being billed as primarily an RvR-centric game
WoW is primarily PvE-centric.
Every other difference in how the two games operate grow out of this
You make it sound like Horde v Alliance isn't RvR and that in WoW you can't raid I mean 'siege' other realms capitol cities.
Having RvR and being built around RvR are two very different things. At every step of game design Mythic stopped and said how is this going to effect RvR. Every zone is built around RvR, every ability is built around it, the renown system is an integral part of character growth whereis honor is just for getting items etc.
WoW just tossed some PvP rules/battlegrounds on at the end and then made the arena which isn't really the same as what many want from PvP.
alot of players from wow will TRY war but i think around 60% will return.
hopfully less but thats just hope, getting rid of alot of pvper would help stop the crying
us americans know how to cry on the wow forums
It's very different when a game is build around PvP and one that has only 4 BGs and arena as end game PvP.
Sure you can raid enemy cities in WOW... but do you? Why not? Because there is no point in it.
You can also swim around for 24 hours a day in WOW. You can craft useless stuff 24 hours a day. You can fly in circles 24 hours a day. Why don't people do it? Because there is no point in it.
Hey if WOW had any good massive progressive and objective based PvP system, I would be playing it right now. There is no point in WOW PVP besides item grinding and its all instanced into the 4 BGs. World PvP is pretty much dead.
Horde vs alliance in WOW is more like, instanced small scale, item-based grinding, repetitive BG /arena play. It's not a massive battle or war like it should be. Heck I've even had bigger fights in warcraft 3 than in the WoW which is supposed to be an MMO LMAO.
You can tell people it was designed around this that and the other, doesn't mean people will be interested. RvR in WAR is no different than WoW. Both have BGs, both have world objective PvP, both have city sieges. The only difference is one company's PR machine is all about RvR and one is about the whole experience.
Not saying WAR isn't fun or that WoW is awesome. Frankly I'm playing CoH and WAR beta right now so I'm neither a fanboi or hater, just rational.
The closest thing WoW really has to meaningful open-world pvp = some zones in Outlands provide buffs when your faction owns 'control points'. You can also gain 'tokens' for pvp kills in certain areas, under certain conditions.
Take WoW/TBC/ Hellfire Peninsula for example. There are 3 control points that either faction can take over to provide their side buffs in that zone. These control points are pretty much just buildings/arena's with a flag in the middle. It would be different if there were siege weapons, guards, etc.,.. for these areas, but there aren't. You just wander from point to point and recapture them freely if the enemy has already moved on. Nothing to resist you... nothing to do to capture the point, other than standing next to a flag. You don't even need to click on anything... not like you would with flags in any of the 4 BG's (capture flag points in AB and AV or carry the flag in WSG or EOTS). Lich King will bring certain aspects of siege and all, but it's not really 'open-world' if it's only in 1 or 2 zones in an expansion, is it?
If open-world PvP were more meaningful and more wide-spread, it would certain create some new twists. I mean, it would be great to see some variety in situation/environment for PvP... and for the outcome of the battles to provide some meaning. But there also needs to be a measure in place to keep people from griefing just for the sake of griefing.
There is no RvR in WoW, go ask a WoW dev they'd never in a million years call their game RvR because there is no RvR goals. WoW is based around PvE its made for PvE...all the content made for the game originally was for PvE (which is why city sieges while fun at first didnt' do anything for you or to your enemy it had no meaning it was a worthless player event people enjoyed for a laugh and once arena's & bg's opened it died off). WoW's timeline does not have the two factions in direct conflict with each other. There are some outland / far off areas that you can open pvp over but they dont' mean anything to your side. They get you nothing, your city does not 'prosper' because you take an area. There is nothing to gain from PvP in WoW but Loot after hours & days of grinding which makes it a NON RvR game with some Open World PvP. There's no reason for you to fight for and with your own side, there is no reason to build community outside of a guild.
WoW is like EQ1 & 2 there is no direct conflict and while the 2 sides dislike each other they are not in an open war with each other. That is essential for RvR.
Realms races working together & teamplay with your realm mates even if you dont care for some of them is essential to an RvR game. WoW has non of this. Its a dungeon quest game with some nifty theme park areas to entertain people who like PvP but dont care if it has any meaning too it.
While this wont' sway' wow players..I'll be frank...I really don't give a damn. WoW is what it is and its good and popular for it. WAR is what it is and its not damn WoW...its something different without being overwhelmingly unique.
*facepalm* and we should believe you're in beta -why- Mr. 33 posts? I'll play the game myself and decide.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Hard to have a high post count when you are too busy playing the MMOs and not having pissing contests with those playing the forum game
A game that has 4 BG and arena as end game PvP is not built around PvP LMAO.
World objectives in WOW? They are a joke with no real purpose other than subpar gear and PvE levelling purposes. City sieges? In WoW that's a good objective? ummm...
I truly doubt you are in beta if you present that the PvP content is similar.
A game that has 4 BG and arena as end game PvP is not built around PvP LMAO.
World objectives in WOW? They are a joke with no real purpose other than subpar gear and PvE levelling purposes. City sieges? In WoW that's a good objective? ummm...
I truly doubt you are in beta if you present that the PvP content is similar.
Ofc it''s similar... it's kinda like looking at an apple and an pear... they both are fruits, they both are sweet, they both have a skin, both have vitamins and are healthy...
But there are differences and the most notable one is the flavor and the texture...
Same with BGs and Scenarios... they both are pvp maps where 1 team fights another over objectives and repeat "over and over"... but the flavor and textures are different... meaning they have different objectives, different limits and different ways of playing
)
Also you can argue "but there are PQs and stuff" well wow has daily quests and sadly every wow fan will say "well that's kinda the same thing to me" even tho it isn't.... but they are repeatable quests that you do to get rewards...
But we're beating a dead horse again... we already states multiple times that they are both mmorpgs and ofc they have similarities ^^
No one's in denial there are similiarities it just irks soem of us that people never look past the initial 'cover' like people may thinkg Daily's are the same thing as PQ's but they really aren't. On the most basic level they are of course but its that inability for people to look beyond the basic level that irks some posters here off.
Anyone looking or believing everything WAR does is 100 percent unique and in not someway similiar to something else or evolved from something else are just as in denial as WoW fanbois that believe their game was original (rofl).
I look forward to WAR because of the differences once you get beyond the basic things. If there only that basic level to go by I'd be deeply turned off since I can get basic non teambased game play from WoW. But its the focus on team and realm and everyone getting the same oppertunities in the game that got me interested in WAR. The evolved & innovated features and the focus on productive / meaningful pvp goals got me excited & hyped for WAR.
Beta testing it took me to the next level tho I won't call myself a fanboi since I'm still skeptical on some key points they've not talked much on yet.
It kinda reminds me of the whole creation vs evolution thing... One side going "it's like this and that" and the other going "but you're wrong... i have evidence"... and then they throw around their evidence till the sunrise and in the end they both still believe the same thing as when they started the "debate"
people believe what they want to believe... sadly... and no amount of evidence will throw them around... you can tell a anti-war-fan 100 differences in scenarios and BG and he will still point out the similarities... and in the end either ignore you or go "you're stupid, lol" before he ignores you...
But then again... we're prolly writing for the people who read then forums and are not yet decided and not the "zelous fanatics" on the forums ^^
hm... elite member with 50 posts? can someone link me how this "elite member" thing works on a PM?
Removed email sent to beta testers since it could be used by those not in beta to say they are. I'm done arguing over released PR and not actual gameplay. We'll take this back up after NDA drops.
*gazes at Solude's post and tries not to laugh* hmm drama much? Look I believe your in the Beta but I also believe you've not been in long or your only looking at the top layer of whats going on in the game which is why so many of us..several of us infact are ALSO in the beta see things differently than you.
To be honest tho you are completely wrong on WoW being an RvR game..its a PvE Dungeon / Quest game thats the entire Central focus of the design and has been since its Beta stages. There's a huge difference. Yes there's 2 factions and there are some open pvp zones but its Central design purpose, its reason for being, and how it benefits you are completely different from WAR.
Anyway no need to yell dude dont let people rile you because your post count is low.
Prodotes the title & stars here are inrelation to the quality of your posts not the number.
Sorry the font from the previous post is from the beta invite and I just didn't bother changing it.
I just think each game is what the player wants it to be. I'm not interested in PvP/RvR in any capacity, not in WAR or AoC or WoW or DAoC... UO was the only time I PvPed and who knows maybe UO ruined it for me going forward. That said I don't think I'm alone, and I don't think my counter the person who doesn't care for PvE doesn't exist. So finding reasons to enjoy PvP in WAR or WoW is really about the player not about the game design.
That said I don't see anything in WAR RvR wise that would make me want to get off the PvE train other than the look see experience.
See now I can understand where your coming from. If all you do is the PvE I can understand the opinion that very similiar to WoW. People looking for a diverse unique new PvE experience will be disappointed. I think the only major PvE difference between WoW & WAR is 1. the PvE counts towards realm points 2. its not the major focus of the game and 3. there are certain ways you go about things & the game goes about things that are inheritantly different than WoW (can't explain cause of nda). But as a whole the PvE is pretty much like most any other PvE games except its Raid Focus Free thank god.
Personally I hated UO's pvp system even the Dev's admited it didn't work out the way they thought it would they never expected players to do what they did and thus it was chaos trying to get people to play their game for more than just murdering each other. I'm a bit more of the team / realm mind set than I am the guild me me me mind set. I think this is why my opinions will highly differ from some people.
WAR's pvp system works for me..because teams & sides are clearly defined. There are in game goals instead of personal how many people can I gank and steal their loot from goals. Its why I could never get into WoW's pvp or even EQ1 or UO's pvp. It wasn't really team goal based it was lets screw someone over based or me me me based.
I'm kinda glad to have a game i can jump between the pve train and the pvp train at will.
See now I can understand where your coming from. If all you do is the PvE I can understand the opinion that very similiar to WoW. People looking for a diverse unique new PvE experience will be disappointed. I think the only major PvE difference between WoW & WAR is 1. the PvE counts towards realm points 2. its not the major focus of the game and 3. there are certain ways you go about things & the game goes about things that are inheritantly different than WoW (can't explain cause of nda). But as a whole the PvE is pretty much like most any other PvE games except its Raid Focus Free thank god.
Personally I hated UO's pvp system even the Dev's admited it didn't work out the way they thought it would they never expected players to do what they did and thus it was chaos trying to get people to play their game for more than just murdering each other. I'm a bit more of the team / realm mind set than I am the guild me me me mind set. I think this is why my opinions will highly differ from some people.
WAR's pvp system works for me..because teams & sides are clearly defined. There are in game goals instead of personal how many people can I gank and steal their loot from goals. Its why I could never get into WoW's pvp or even EQ1 or UO's pvp. It wasn't really team goal based it was lets screw someone over based or me me me based.
I'm kinda glad to have a game i can jump between the pve train and the pvp train at will.
I like the way Mythic took server events, sized them down, and keep the epicness (PQs). There ARE new types of PvE being introduced...so in a way it is different, but not drastically. I'm glad we won't have the raid mentality as well.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
For me at least what makes WAR different is the structure of the RVR and PQ's. Everything is teired in such a manner that all aspects of the game are available very early one. Everyone can contribute and compete. I cant go into details but for me WAR's RVR is simply more fun for me then the Battlegrounds of WAR. Not to mention the storyline intermeshes nicely between RVR and PVE. They dont feel exclusive of each other.
In anycase I like WAR, Liked Wow in the day as well. Id personally at least try WAR. Thats just me though.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Very informative. Both sides, good arguments, and i got to know all the features. Sweet!