After three+ year shizzard still have no intention of adding anything new, since puppetts like Tom Chilton dont see any need for anything more because "...WOW is perfectly balanced pvp/pve game", according to the same {mod edit} Im curious is this true, are all players that enjoy a bit of pvp, satisfied with over 3 year ald AV, with nothing new, no new bg, same shitty av. Im not talking about tower capturing etc... im talking about new BG, three+ year is 'nuf time even for retard to get some idea what and how to do it.
Go to warhammer, let shizzard rot with their 4 BG's and instanced/pointless objectives and pve epeeners.
Pretty sure pappy is going to defend this game until it physically wrongs him somehow.
It is my right. I'll quit defending when others quit offending. It's real easy, just take the negative WoW comments to another forum and you won't have to see me defend it. Alternatively you could just quit visiting these forums or better yet, just simply click on block above my post. Problem solved.
"Yeah, Blizzard has REALLY been lax about adding PvP content in the last 3+ years. "
I hope WAR takes WoW's PvPers away because competition is always good. See what happens when WAr is nigh, they start adding a new PvP zone and PvP content.
Wait a second...you HOPE? You mean to tell me after the long line of mistakes that you just pointed out that Blizzard has made over the last 3 years the BEST you can do is HOPE that War can take away it's PvPer's? That's it? I mean it should be a piece of cake. Heck Conan which has PvP should have already done it because Blizzard has made such a mess of things. You mean to tell me that a game like War that has developed their game from the ground up to be PvP centric and the BEST that you can do is HOPE that it takes away a few of Blizzard's customers? What are these other developers doing? I mean COME ON!!!! Why on earth haven't they listened to all of you who know so much? Certainly they have eyes. Certainly they see what all of you see. I mean it's so obvious. What is taking them so long? I mean, I like WoW and everything, but even I have to wonder what are these other companies doing to screw things up so badly that 3 years of screw up's by Blizzard and they STILL can't take even a small number of subscribers away from them. THAT is what is sad. I think you people are in the wrong forums. You should be posting this in the Conan and War forums, because THEY are the one's who apparently have screwed the pooch the last 3+ years.
"Yeah, Blizzard has REALLY been lax about adding PvP content in the last 3+ years. "
I hope WAR takes WoW's PvPers away because competition is always good. See what happens when WAr is nigh, they start adding a new PvP zone and PvP content.
Wait a second...you HOPE? You mean to tell me after the long line of mistakes that you just pointed out that Blizzard has made over the last 3 years the BEST you can do is HOPE that War can take away it's PvPer's? That's it? I mean it should be a piece of cake. Heck Conan which has PvP should have already done it because Blizzard has made such a mess of things. You mean to tell me that a game like War that has developed their game from the ground up to be PvP centric and the BEST that you can do is HOPE that it takes away a few of Blizzard's customers? What are these other developers doing? I mean COME ON!!!! Why on earth haven't they listened to all of you who know so much? Certainly they have eyes. Certainly they see what all of you see. I mean it's so obvious. What is taking them so long? I mean, I like WoW and everything, but even I have to wonder what are these other companies doing to screw things up so badly that 3 years of screw up's by Blizzard and they STILL can't take even a small number of subscribers away from them. THAT is what is sad. I think you people are in the wrong forums. You should be posting this in the Conan and War forums, because THEY are the one's who apparently have screwed the pooch the last 3+ years.
Just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Unlike you I don't blindly defend something I haven't played yet. I'll know more after I beta test and NDA drops. I could easily say it WILL but I like to see things for myself. On paper WAR looks good so far.
Unlike you I'm not a fanboi who defends every aspect and does not see flaws in a game. Just name a few things you don't like about WoW, go for it and drop your fanboism.
Unlike you I don't see battlemasters as "new PvP content".
Unlike you I don't draw out each arena in 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 just to seem like there is alot of content.
Most devs are trying to copy WoWs model because there is no viable alternative that does as well.
If you can't take negative opinions I suggest you try stay away from forums instead of chasing people to other forums. To institute any change there needs to be expression of opinions. Blind subservience is not a good medium for changing anything for the better.
Unlike you I don't blindly defend something I haven't played yet. What am I defending that I haven't played yet? I haven't said anything about the expansion other than that it will add another form of PvP to WoW and I don't have to play it to know that it will happen because it's already part of the beta. Even though I haven't played it, others have. You trying to tell me that you think the siege tanks and non-instanced PvP zone is going to be removed from WoTLK before it releases? You know something that I don't? I'll know more after I beta test and NDA drops. I could easily say it WILL but I like to see things for myself. On paper WAR looks good so far. Or in other words, you'll wait till you see the subscription numbers. Unlike you I'm not a fanboi who defends every aspect and does not see flaws in a game. I see flaws. I've posted about them before. But you're right, I am a fan of the game. I have no problem with being called a fanboi. Being a fan of something is not something to be ashamed of, it's something to be proud of. Just name a few things you don't like about WoW, go for it and drop your fanboism. I don't like professions plain and simple. Blizzard screwed them up, no question about it. They offer very little reward early in the game and while there are a few end-game items of quality, they went and made them bind on pickup which was just downright stupid. I also thought that the fact that enchanters could not put their enchants on the AH nor could they enchant their own ALTS was dumb....something they fixed in WoTLK. I don't particularly like the way they have guards defending towns. There are a lot of exploits and if sufficiently high enough level, you don't even have to worry about the guards. I don't have a problem with the horde trying to sack Ironforge for example, but I think it's rather stupid that when I'm in Booty Bay trying to turn in a quest or get a quest, I'm getting constantly ganked by the opposing faction 20 levels higher than me. Cooking and fishing weren't particularly well done either. Most people skip it because it's not all that worthwhile, they could have easily made it very worthwhile. There should be a great benefit to fishing in the more dangerous areas and fishing should not be able to be leveled up by fishing for 4 days straight in Stormwind. Quest rewards are totally screwed in Azeroth. 90% of the items you get from the quests are jokes and nothing more than vendor trash. They did a slightly better job in BC, but still lacked oomph in my humble opinion. There are some issues with the BG's and AFK people and various other issues, but anytime there are players involved, people are going to find exploits, so I don't have a huge problem with these things. Blizzard attempts to give people some tools to try to police the game a bit themselves as they clearly don't have the resources to make sure all the games are equal. Quests that require you to gather a certain number of items need to have their drop rates fixed. I skip a fair number of quests because it simply takes too long to acquire the number of dropped items the quest needs. It shouldn't be a 1 for 1 rate, but it shouldn't be totally random either where at times you can spend 20 or 30 minutes without getting a drop. There are other things as well, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Nothing too game breaking. Unlike you I don't see battlemasters as "new PvP content". Nah, it's old. Unlike you I don't draw out each arena in 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 just to seem like there is alot of content. Of course not, why would you, because 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 play EXACTLY the same....NOT. You also don't see team Arena as being anything different from random Arena even though they are. Most devs are trying to copy WoWs model because there is no viable alternative that does as well. What? That's your argument? That WoW is doing the best job but it's not good enough? If you can't take negative opinions I suggest you try stay away from forums instead of chasing people to other forums. And you are. Screen shot or it didn't happen and I know you're not talking about the general forums which are for EVERYONE. 90% of my posts are in these forums and I don't believe I have posted in ANY other forum except the general forums. I'm pretty sure I haven't made a single post in any other game's forum. Please post a link if you disagree.
Sometimes, when I'm sick of BGs, and won't PvP for a couple of months. Then, after needing a change, I'll remember how much fun they are and spend my entire weekend doing them.
Arena is a love / hate kind of thing. If you don't enjoy playing your class competitively with a team of friends - you must be a very strange gamer. For me this is an extremely compelling part of the WoW experience, some of the fights are simply amazing, and no fights are exactly the same.
As for *Insert yet another unreleased MMO here*, all I can say is, bring it on. Wrath of the Lich king will absolutely demolish anything coming out this year, in every conceivable way. Even if you hate WoW, a betting man would know which game is going to succeed and which games are just pure unreleased hype, disappointing people as MMORPGs usually do.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I'll know more after I beta test and NDA drops. I could easily say it WILL but I like to see things for myself. On paper WAR looks good so far. Or in other words, you'll wait till you see the subscription numbers. No in the SAME words what I said. L2R. Unlike you I'm not a fanboi who defends every aspect and does not see flaws in a game. I see flaws. I've posted about them before. But you're right, I am a fan of the game. I have no problem with being called a fanboi. Being a fan of something is not something to be ashamed of, it's something to be proud of. LMAO. Unlike you I don't see battlemasters as "new PvP content".
Nah, it's old. When they put it in like you said they added it. The point is battlemasters are not PvP content like you contend. It's the same as saying they added summoning stones as PvE content. Unlike you I don't draw out each arena in 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 just to seem like there is alot of content. Of course not, why would you, because 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 play EXACTLY the same....NOT. You also don't see team Arena as being anything different from random Arena even though they are. Its the same maps with more/less people. It's not more content. Content means adding new things. If you had a PvE dungeon with 5,10,15 man playable modes with the same dungeon and mobs just subtracting them, would you call that more content? Most devs are trying to copy WoWs model because there is no viable alternative that does as well. What? That's your argument? That WoW is doing the best job but it's not good enough? No it's that devs are copying the model that suceeds. Meaning the PvE centric item grindfest with no good endgame world PvP content. L2R. Personally, I don't think WoW is doing a good job of endgame PvP but you missed my point. If you can't take negative opinions I suggest you try stay away from forums instead of chasing people to other forums. And you are. Screen shot or it didn't happen and I know you're not talking about the general forums which are for EVERYONE. 90% of my posts are in these forums and I don't believe I have posted in ANY other forum except the general forums. I'm pretty sure I haven't made a single post in any other game's forum. Please post a link if you disagree. You wrote : "I think you people are in the wrong forums. You should be posting this in the Conan and War forums, because THEY are the one's who apparently have screwed the pooch the last 3+ years."
Before The Burning Crusade Expantion, Battlegrounds had some meaning, these days it dosn't have any meaning at all (exept farming honnor, and thats about it.)
Pre TBC battlegrounds had reputation, where i could get really nice gear, like..
- Legging from WSG
- Shoulders from AB
- And a Mace from AV
we can still get reputation in these bg's to get a title, but thats just it..
EOTS is about the most usless bg in the game.
AV used to be fun, an lasted for days.. now it's changed to a 10min honnor farming, where it never can last long, because of the reinforcements.. and it's surly a PVE instance, because if you try doing any pvp, you surly gonna be called names like noob.
IMO the worst thing happend to wow, is:
1.. Resilence
2.. Arena
Getting free-gear that you almost dont have to work for, surly dosn't give the same feeling as when you got some gear when trying to get to rank14.
If they could make a old school server, i would change to it instantly.
Argument A: We give them bazillions of dollars a month and they slap us in the face by making us rerun the same 4 battleground maps over and over and over for 3 freaking years straight and when we're done they release new tiers of gear yet no new maps to regrind the whole damn affair for our mains and all of our alts with no change of scenery or meaningful variations while good ideas are thrown at them to implement on a daily basis.
Yet we still continue to thrive on these crumbs they throw us like the rats we are!
Argument B: They have gief us battlemazters!
Dunno, some pretty compelling stuff there.
Anyone with two sparks of common sense can see that Blizzard either cares the absolute minimum for adding variety to the pvp battlegrounds to the point of sheer apathy (hell they can't even balance the ones they've had for 3 years!) or they think it's funny as hell that everyone goes into hamster mode and reruns this same boring (once was fun...for the first characters to revered or so, about 2 years ago) content over and over ad infinitum as Blizz chants the mantra of "If it aint broke don't fix it".
Seriously though people must really, really I mean REALLY love those maps to continously play them over and over grinding out honor each season on all of their characters, either that or all of those millions of people are in robot mode where nothing matters anymore as long as the honor keeps pouring in and the wheel keeps turning.
Hard call there as I log in and do an AV occasionally and people are still screaming in chat and taking the game serious as all hell about to have a coronary they get so worked up. I just think "Man...after the eight hundredth AV don't think anyone cares anymore bro...sheesh just relax."
Then again there are new players to the game that are experiencing it for their first go or whatever but still I definately agree that Blizz is being too stingy with withholding the design of new maps to put into rotation for the different battleground type for sheer amount of resources they have at their disposal creatively as well as financially.
I honestly guess that they just do not see it as a problem. They have the numbers for the research but it seems pretty obvious to me that yeah, they're slacking big time and it will probably cost them as soon as something worthwhile comes out to take people's interest away. They're in the unique position right now of not having any competition so don't really feel the pressure to do a damn thing. Time will tell, competition hopefully is on the horizon. Could be a great thing for the bottom line, the gamer having more options instead of being steamrolled into one path due to the lack of any options, again time will soon tell.
Sometimes, when I'm sick of BGs, and won't PvP for a couple of months. Then, after needing a change, I'll remember how much fun they are and spend my entire weekend doing them. Arena is a love / hate kind of thing. If you don't enjoy playing your class competitively with a team of friends - you must be a very strange gamer. For me this is an extremely compelling part of the WoW experience, some of the fights are simply amazing, and no fights are exactly the same. As for *Insert yet another unreleased MMO here*, all I can say is, bring it on. Wrath of the Lich king will absolutely demolish anything coming out this year, in every conceivable way. Even if you hate WoW, a betting man would know which game is going to succeed and which games are just pure unreleased hype, disappointing people as MMORPGs usually do.
Sometimes, when I'm sick of BGs, and won't PvP for a couple of months. Then, after needing a change, I'll remember how much fun they are and spend my entire weekend doing them. Arena is a love / hate kind of thing. If you don't enjoy playing your class competitively with a team of friends - you must be a very strange gamer. For me this is an extremely compelling part of the WoW experience, some of the fights are simply amazing, and no fights are exactly the same. As for *Insert yet another unreleased MMO here*, all I can say is, bring it on. Wrath of the Lich king will absolutely demolish anything coming out this year, in every conceivable way. Even if you hate WoW, a betting man would know which game is going to succeed and which games are just pure unreleased hype, disappointing people as MMORPGs usually do.
The truth. Lich King will DESTROY WAR, period.
WAR doesn't have to be destroyed. As long as the new open world PvP zone in WotLK is rewarded with good gear and titles and world buffs we could see some very good concentrated world pvp from the best PvP players worldwide.
I love Arena because it is a build-in "security" of class balance in the game. Of course not one on one balance, not even 2vs2, but as the basis for general PvP in BG's and world PvP, it's good to know everyone can analyse how classes interact.
As an example: imagine Conan having a rated arena subgame: than people could see the huge gap between the two games when it comes to class balances.
How in the world could a designer ever create meaningful interaction between classes without an analysis of 3vs3 and 5 vs 5 arena system.
Only problem that remains: no one likes to loose in such one on one fights. And we ALL loose aren't we:))))....Everyone thinks he's Carl Lewis, but helas there is only one, so we blame it on the system )))
So much easier to yell PvP sucks than to acknowledge you're a bad loser. There is exactly a 3% difference between Tier 2 and Tier 4 gear. So skill primes gear, arena, BG or whatever....
What is wrong with you people? If someone enjoys a BG (personally, I do.) then leave them to it. Its a FUN waste of time for a while, what a game should be. Play somehting else if you dont like it, but dont force everyone else to change.
They can't. They just hate to see a game that they don't like (anymore) continue to have success. They figure if they don't like it (anymore) that everyone else should quit liking it as well. What they simply can't accept is that other people can continue to keep the game fresh by constantly finding something else to do. They play 1 or a couple classes to max then they spend weeks or months doing the same instance or BG over and over and over ad nauseum to get gear, burn out and turn on the game as if the game has changed in some way. They never realize that it is them that has changed and not the game. The game has stayed the same as when they enjoyed it.
If you play the same BG for 3 years straight, yes you WILL end up hating it. If on the other hand you level up 9 different classes, get all the professions to 375, delve into every instance a couple times, run all the raid content with each of the 9 classes etc, you can play for 3+ years and STILL not have accomplished everything there is to accomplish. These guys just don't understand that. They never will.
If you can't take negative opinions I suggest you try stay away from forums instead of chasing people to other forums. And you are. Screen shot or it didn't happen and I know you're not talking about the general forums which are for EVERYONE. 90% of my posts are in these forums and I don't believe I have posted in ANY other forum except the general forums. I'm pretty sure I haven't made a single post in any other game's forum. Please post a link if you disagree. You wrote : "I think you people are in the wrong forums. You should be posting this in the Conan and War forums, because THEY are the one's who apparently have screwed the pooch the last 3+ years." Ah, misunderstood your use of the word chase. I have no problem with people bashing on WoW here, I just don't like it when people don't like it when I defend the game here. I wrote that in regards to the guy who said that I would defend WoW till it personally injured me. I have just as much right to defend the game as people have to attack it. If that makes me a fanboi, I'm ok with that. What does it make the person attacking it?
So far the gist of this thread is: Argument A: We give them bazillions of dollars a month and they slap us in the face by making us rerun the same 4 battleground maps over and over and over for 3 freaking years straight and when we're done they release new tiers of gear yet no new maps to regrind the whole damn affair for our mains and all of our alts with no change of scenery or meaningful variations while good ideas are thrown at them to implement on a daily basis. Yet we still continue to thrive on these crumbs they throw us like the rats we are! Argument B: They have gief us battlemazters! Dunno, some pretty compelling stuff there.
Ha Ha, very funny. Has everyone gotten a good laugh now? I never said that the battlemasters was PvP content, in fact I have said that it isn't, I merely included it in a list of things that have been added since release that pertain to PvP. The fact that people continue to make a big deal out of this point tells me their argument is severly lacking on the other points I made. Care to debate the other points or are you only comfortable with this one? Here, I'll even refresh your memory.
4 Battlegrounds
6 Arena's (2v2, 3v3, 5v5) both competitive and non competitive.
A full blown PvP tourney server.
Many world PvP quests and zones with world PvP objectives.
A full PvP honor system and a revamp of that honor system.
Tons of PvP gear and various PvP sets per class.
And that doesn't even include all the things that will be added in the next expansion this fall, nor does it include dueling or world PvP which was in the game upon release.
Without blizzardfanboy-glasses: 6 arenas that are all the same Tourney server you have to pay extra for World PvP that only exist on the paper
I find it completely laughable that someone who plays maxxed out characters in EQ2 and Vanguard is even trying to look down their nose at any other games PvP offerings. Talk about two games that completely missed the boat on their PvP efforts.
For all the hating on WoW around here the truth is WoW got a good portion of PvP right, espcially considering it is a PvE centric game. It offers better PvP and more options than most PvP centric games right now, how sad is that?
There are maybe a few games that put a decent effort into PvP and those are only worthwhile for what seems to be a smaller numbers of PvP options. Take out a castle siege or whatever and those games would not even be worth playing. One trick ponies...
Something tells me that I will see the same people in this thread whining about the new games coming out in a years time. Crying about grinding instances for realm points or sieging the same city over and over for gear. My guess is nothing will change after the initial shine wears off whatever the new game is and it will be the same old whining.
they should add more bgs, I mean with a fps you have many many more maps. Maybe the new expansion (which they've conveniently timed with Warhammer) should be good for pvp, well at least with the long awaited siege weapons.
Well basically put I hope WAR does kick WoW in the ^&*^ when it comes to pvp, we've been given this 'well we'll have XYZ' before and given a version barely anything like advertised..
Seige warfair was MENT to be given to us in TBC, Blizzard told us both sides were able to create their own towns/buildings which players where able to bombard from the air in pvp and destroyed, mounted combat was going to apprear, new capturable areas were ment to 'change the war'..
Did we get anything like that sure IN PVE! That or either it got buried under the raid content or worse still delayed so far it magically apprears in the next paid content update.. (on a side note Hero classes and Seige warware have been 'coming soon' since post launch, and i very much dought we'll get another 'hero class' until the next paid content).
Point being theres a lot Blizzard have said to be 'comming' in terms of content for a long time now and a lot of the time it's barely what we expect it to be or ends up 'missing', as popular as it is, Blizzard really need to get their act together before players realise the devs are just riding the same ideas out over and over and only giving small 'discrations' to grind into dust to keep us players paying a sub, hype works yes but only for so long.
Well basically put I hope WAR does kick WoW in the ^&*^ when it comes to pvp, we've been given this 'well we'll have XYZ' before and given a version barely anything like advertised.. Seige warfair was MENT to be given to us in TBC, Blizzard told us both sides were able to create their own towns/buildings which players where able to bombard from the air in pvp and destroyed, mounted combat was going to apprear, new capturable areas were ment to 'change the war'.. Erm.. link or its not true.. which I know its not =D Did we get anything like that sure IN PVE! That or either it got buried under the raid content or worse still delayed so far it magically apprears in the next paid content update.. (on a side note Hero classes and Seige warware have been 'coming soon' since post launch, and i very much dought we'll get another 'hero class' until the next paid content). Again link please. Point being theres a lot Blizzard have said to be 'comming' in terms of content for a long time now and a lot of the time it's barely what we expect it to be or ends up 'missing', as popular as it is, Blizzard really need to get their act together before players realise the devs are just riding the same ideas out over and over and only giving small 'discrations' to grind into dust to keep us players paying a sub, hype works yes but only for so long. Content you expect.. bottom line millions are happy with the content, you cant argue with that, and wow is not running on hype its 4 years old and still the biggest subscription MMO and still holding strong with 10+million paid subs.
I didnt want to turn this into flame, blizzard forum trols: skip this, I was looking for diff opinions, from people that play(ed) wow, regarding obsolete bg's in wow.
I posted even, while ago, on shizzards official forum in suggestions part, to make completly new daily BG, (av for start) av at, lets say, 12:00 shizzards time, and the winner side, after they kil van or drek (or this new boss), gets portal directly to ogrimar or iron forge. Imagine this: 40 pissed players in enemy heart
Thats kinda fun - imo, and not arena where u buy rating, not av where 15 are afk, ab where u play against 3-8 rogues, nor wsg with 10 droods, eos is kinda fun , not retarded tourny.
Post was gone next day i looked, i posted again , i was banned, flaming and troling: they said, i gave up their forums.
Bottom line is that in 3+years this punny company made 100+ dungeons - and only 4 BG. And thats called "perfecly ballanced pvp/pve game that is not to be turned into 1vs1 game"
Bottom line is that in 3+years this punny company made 100+ dungeons - and only 4 BG. And thats called "perfecly ballanced pvp/pve game that is not to be turned into 1vs1 game"
Now the facts.
51 Instances.
4 BG's, several different types of arenas and a PvP Tourney server.
There doesn't need to be as many PvP maps because the content is not dependent upon it. The content comes from the players for the most part on PvP maps whereas all the content in instances comes from the instance itself.
And even Blizzard has never said it's perfectly balanced, they've only said they don't attempt to balance the PvP for 1v1 play.
WoW battleground PvP will always be vastly inferior to Guild Wars GvG due to the underlying infrastructure. I consider WoW PvP well done but amateurish in comparison.
So clearly I am not a WoW PvP fan.
But to say they have done nothing in the PvP area over 3 years is just flat out wrong. Besides what are they supposed to do with say Warsong gulch? Its just a capture the flag map. I mean that kind of stuff has been around for decades before WoW was even released. Really not a lot they can do to the old stuff. And clearly they have added some new stuff as well.
Originally posted by gestalt11 WoW battleground PvP will always be vastly inferior to Guild Wars GvG due to the underlying infrastructure. I consider WoW PvP well done but amateurish in comparison.
So clearly I am not a WoW PvP fan.
But to say they have done nothing in the PvP area over 3 years is just flat out wrong. Besides what are they supposed to do with say Warsong gulch? Its just a capture the flag map. I mean that kind of stuff has been around for decades before WoW was even released. Really not a lot they can do to the old stuff. And clearly they have added some new stuff as well.
In addition to class updates and more battlegrounds, and even a new style of playing (arena 2v2,3v3,5v5) how could you say they've done nothing. I agree with gestalt11, they've done a lot whether its the amount of play fields or the classes themselves, you can claim either is unbalanced or not fun (or in the extreme case, added as an afterthought and will never be up to par with PvE) but they've done a lot to make it enjoyable and rewarding.
Actually yes they have done a lot for pvp, unfortanately everything they have done has made pvp worse and worse. For anyone who's played before the honor system was ever implemented you know that pvp was much better when it was all world pvp and none of this grinding for gear crap that it is today.
Comments
Go to warhammer, let shizzard rot with their 4 BG's and instanced/pointless objectives and pve epeeners.
It is my right. I'll quit defending when others quit offending. It's real easy, just take the negative WoW comments to another forum and you won't have to see me defend it. Alternatively you could just quit visiting these forums or better yet, just simply click on block above my post. Problem solved.
Wait a second...you HOPE? You mean to tell me after the long line of mistakes that you just pointed out that Blizzard has made over the last 3 years the BEST you can do is HOPE that War can take away it's PvPer's? That's it? I mean it should be a piece of cake. Heck Conan which has PvP should have already done it because Blizzard has made such a mess of things. You mean to tell me that a game like War that has developed their game from the ground up to be PvP centric and the BEST that you can do is HOPE that it takes away a few of Blizzard's customers? What are these other developers doing? I mean COME ON!!!! Why on earth haven't they listened to all of you who know so much? Certainly they have eyes. Certainly they see what all of you see. I mean it's so obvious. What is taking them so long? I mean, I like WoW and everything, but even I have to wonder what are these other companies doing to screw things up so badly that 3 years of screw up's by Blizzard and they STILL can't take even a small number of subscribers away from them. THAT is what is sad. I think you people are in the wrong forums. You should be posting this in the Conan and War forums, because THEY are the one's who apparently have screwed the pooch the last 3+ years.
Just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Wait a second...you HOPE? You mean to tell me after the long line of mistakes that you just pointed out that Blizzard has made over the last 3 years the BEST you can do is HOPE that War can take away it's PvPer's? That's it? I mean it should be a piece of cake. Heck Conan which has PvP should have already done it because Blizzard has made such a mess of things. You mean to tell me that a game like War that has developed their game from the ground up to be PvP centric and the BEST that you can do is HOPE that it takes away a few of Blizzard's customers? What are these other developers doing? I mean COME ON!!!! Why on earth haven't they listened to all of you who know so much? Certainly they have eyes. Certainly they see what all of you see. I mean it's so obvious. What is taking them so long? I mean, I like WoW and everything, but even I have to wonder what are these other companies doing to screw things up so badly that 3 years of screw up's by Blizzard and they STILL can't take even a small number of subscribers away from them. THAT is what is sad. I think you people are in the wrong forums. You should be posting this in the Conan and War forums, because THEY are the one's who apparently have screwed the pooch the last 3+ years.
Just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Unlike you I don't blindly defend something I haven't played yet. I'll know more after I beta test and NDA drops. I could easily say it WILL but I like to see things for myself. On paper WAR looks good so far.
Unlike you I'm not a fanboi who defends every aspect and does not see flaws in a game. Just name a few things you don't like about WoW, go for it and drop your fanboism.
Unlike you I don't see battlemasters as "new PvP content".
Unlike you I don't draw out each arena in 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 just to seem like there is alot of content.
Most devs are trying to copy WoWs model because there is no viable alternative that does as well.
If you can't take negative opinions I suggest you try stay away from forums instead of chasing people to other forums. To institute any change there needs to be expression of opinions. Blind subservience is not a good medium for changing anything for the better.
And you are.
Sometimes, when I'm sick of BGs, and won't PvP for a couple of months. Then, after needing a change, I'll remember how much fun they are and spend my entire weekend doing them.
Arena is a love / hate kind of thing. If you don't enjoy playing your class competitively with a team of friends - you must be a very strange gamer. For me this is an extremely compelling part of the WoW experience, some of the fights are simply amazing, and no fights are exactly the same.
As for *Insert yet another unreleased MMO here*, all I can say is, bring it on. Wrath of the Lich king will absolutely demolish anything coming out this year, in every conceivable way. Even if you hate WoW, a betting man would know which game is going to succeed and which games are just pure unreleased hype, disappointing people as MMORPGs usually do.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Before The Burning Crusade Expantion, Battlegrounds had some meaning, these days it dosn't have any meaning at all (exept farming honnor, and thats about it.)
Pre TBC battlegrounds had reputation, where i could get really nice gear, like..
- Legging from WSG
- Shoulders from AB
- And a Mace from AV
we can still get reputation in these bg's to get a title, but thats just it..
EOTS is about the most usless bg in the game.
AV used to be fun, an lasted for days.. now it's changed to a 10min honnor farming, where it never can last long, because of the reinforcements.. and it's surly a PVE instance, because if you try doing any pvp, you surly gonna be called names like noob.
IMO the worst thing happend to wow, is:
1.. Resilence
2.. Arena
Getting free-gear that you almost dont have to work for, surly dosn't give the same feeling as when you got some gear when trying to get to rank14.
If they could make a old school server, i would change to it instantly.
Want to play: Lego Universe
So far the gist of this thread is:
Argument A: We give them bazillions of dollars a month and they slap us in the face by making us rerun the same 4 battleground maps over and over and over for 3 freaking years straight and when we're done they release new tiers of gear yet no new maps to regrind the whole damn affair for our mains and all of our alts with no change of scenery or meaningful variations while good ideas are thrown at them to implement on a daily basis.
Yet we still continue to thrive on these crumbs they throw us like the rats we are!
Argument B: They have gief us battlemazters!
Dunno, some pretty compelling stuff there.
Anyone with two sparks of common sense can see that Blizzard either cares the absolute minimum for adding variety to the pvp battlegrounds to the point of sheer apathy (hell they can't even balance the ones they've had for 3 years!) or they think it's funny as hell that everyone goes into hamster mode and reruns this same boring (once was fun...for the first characters to revered or so, about 2 years ago) content over and over ad infinitum as Blizz chants the mantra of "If it aint broke don't fix it".
Seriously though people must really, really I mean REALLY love those maps to continously play them over and over grinding out honor each season on all of their characters, either that or all of those millions of people are in robot mode where nothing matters anymore as long as the honor keeps pouring in and the wheel keeps turning.
Hard call there as I log in and do an AV occasionally and people are still screaming in chat and taking the game serious as all hell about to have a coronary they get so worked up. I just think "Man...after the eight hundredth AV don't think anyone cares anymore bro...sheesh just relax."
Then again there are new players to the game that are experiencing it for their first go or whatever but still I definately agree that Blizz is being too stingy with withholding the design of new maps to put into rotation for the different battleground type for sheer amount of resources they have at their disposal creatively as well as financially.
I honestly guess that they just do not see it as a problem. They have the numbers for the research but it seems pretty obvious to me that yeah, they're slacking big time and it will probably cost them as soon as something worthwhile comes out to take people's interest away. They're in the unique position right now of not having any competition so don't really feel the pressure to do a damn thing. Time will tell, competition hopefully is on the horizon. Could be a great thing for the bottom line, the gamer having more options instead of being steamrolled into one path due to the lack of any options, again time will soon tell.
The truth. Lich King will DESTROY WAR, period.
The truth. Lich King will DESTROY WAR, period.
WAR doesn't have to be destroyed. As long as the new open world PvP zone in WotLK is rewarded with good gear and titles and world buffs we could see some very good concentrated world pvp from the best PvP players worldwide.
I love Arena because it is a build-in "security" of class balance in the game. Of course not one on one balance, not even 2vs2, but as the basis for general PvP in BG's and world PvP, it's good to know everyone can analyse how classes interact.
As an example: imagine Conan having a rated arena subgame: than people could see the huge gap between the two games when it comes to class balances.
How in the world could a designer ever create meaningful interaction between classes without an analysis of 3vs3 and 5 vs 5 arena system.
Only problem that remains: no one likes to loose in such one on one fights. And we ALL loose aren't we:))))....Everyone thinks he's Carl Lewis, but helas there is only one, so we blame it on the system
)))
So much easier to yell PvP sucks than to acknowledge you're a bad loser. There is exactly a 3% difference between Tier 2 and Tier 4 gear. So skill primes gear, arena, BG or whatever....
What is wrong with you people?
If someone enjoys a BG (personally, I do.) then leave them to it.
Its a FUN waste of time for a while, what a game should be.
Play somehting else if you dont like it, but dont force everyone else to change.
They can't. They just hate to see a game that they don't like (anymore) continue to have success. They figure if they don't like it (anymore) that everyone else should quit liking it as well. What they simply can't accept is that other people can continue to keep the game fresh by constantly finding something else to do. They play 1 or a couple classes to max then they spend weeks or months doing the same instance or BG over and over and over ad nauseum to get gear, burn out and turn on the game as if the game has changed in some way. They never realize that it is them that has changed and not the game. The game has stayed the same as when they enjoyed it.
If you play the same BG for 3 years straight, yes you WILL end up hating it. If on the other hand you level up 9 different classes, get all the professions to 375, delve into every instance a couple times, run all the raid content with each of the 9 classes etc, you can play for 3+ years and STILL not have accomplished everything there is to accomplish. These guys just don't understand that. They never will.
Ha Ha, very funny. Has everyone gotten a good laugh now? I never said that the battlemasters was PvP content, in fact I have said that it isn't, I merely included it in a list of things that have been added since release that pertain to PvP. The fact that people continue to make a big deal out of this point tells me their argument is severly lacking on the other points I made. Care to debate the other points or are you only comfortable with this one? Here, I'll even refresh your memory.
4 Battlegrounds
6 Arena's (2v2, 3v3, 5v5) both competitive and non competitive.
A full blown PvP tourney server.
Many world PvP quests and zones with world PvP objectives.
A full PvP honor system and a revamp of that honor system.
Tons of PvP gear and various PvP sets per class.
And that doesn't even include all the things that will be added in the next expansion this fall, nor does it include dueling or world PvP which was in the game upon release.
I find it completely laughable that someone who plays maxxed out characters in EQ2 and Vanguard is even trying to look down their nose at any other games PvP offerings. Talk about two games that completely missed the boat on their PvP efforts.
For all the hating on WoW around here the truth is WoW got a good portion of PvP right, espcially considering it is a PvE centric game. It offers better PvP and more options than most PvP centric games right now, how sad is that?
There are maybe a few games that put a decent effort into PvP and those are only worthwhile for what seems to be a smaller numbers of PvP options. Take out a castle siege or whatever and those games would not even be worth playing. One trick ponies...
Something tells me that I will see the same people in this thread whining about the new games coming out in a years time. Crying about grinding instances for realm points or sieging the same city over and over for gear. My guess is nothing will change after the initial shine wears off whatever the new game is and it will be the same old whining.
they should add more bgs, I mean with a fps you have many many more maps. Maybe the new expansion (which they've conveniently timed with Warhammer) should be good for pvp, well at least with the long awaited siege weapons.
Well basically put I hope WAR does kick WoW in the ^&*^ when it comes to pvp, we've been given this 'well we'll have XYZ' before and given a version barely anything like advertised..
Seige warfair was MENT to be given to us in TBC, Blizzard told us both sides were able to create their own towns/buildings which players where able to bombard from the air in pvp and destroyed, mounted combat was going to apprear, new capturable areas were ment to 'change the war'..
Did we get anything like that sure IN PVE! That or either it got buried under the raid content or worse still delayed so far it magically apprears in the next paid content update.. (on a side note Hero classes and Seige warware have been 'coming soon' since post launch, and i very much dought we'll get another 'hero class' until the next paid content).
Point being theres a lot Blizzard have said to be 'comming' in terms of content for a long time now and a lot of the time it's barely what we expect it to be or ends up 'missing', as popular as it is, Blizzard really need to get their act together before players realise the devs are just riding the same ideas out over and over and only giving small 'discrations' to grind into dust to keep us players paying a sub, hype works yes but only for so long.
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
I didnt want to turn this into flame, blizzard forum trols: skip this, I was looking for diff opinions, from people that play(ed) wow, regarding obsolete bg's in wow.
I posted even, while ago, on shizzards official forum in suggestions part, to make completly new daily BG, (av for start) av at, lets say, 12:00 shizzards time, and the winner side, after they kil van or drek (or this new boss), gets portal directly to ogrimar or iron forge. Imagine this: 40 pissed players in enemy heart
Thats kinda fun - imo, and not arena where u buy rating, not av where 15 are afk, ab where u play against 3-8 rogues, nor wsg with 10 droods, eos is kinda fun
, not retarded tourny.
Post was gone next day i looked, i posted again , i was banned, flaming and troling: they said, i gave up their forums.
Bottom line is that in 3+years this punny company made 100+ dungeons - and only 4 BG. And thats called "perfecly ballanced pvp/pve game that is not to be turned into 1vs1 game"
Peace
Now the facts.
51 Instances.
4 BG's, several different types of arenas and a PvP Tourney server.
There doesn't need to be as many PvP maps because the content is not dependent upon it. The content comes from the players for the most part on PvP maps whereas all the content in instances comes from the instance itself.
And even Blizzard has never said it's perfectly balanced, they've only said they don't attempt to balance the PvP for 1v1 play.
That's the bottom line.
WoW battleground PvP will always be vastly inferior to Guild Wars GvG due to the underlying infrastructure. I consider WoW PvP well done but amateurish in comparison.
So clearly I am not a WoW PvP fan.
But to say they have done nothing in the PvP area over 3 years is just flat out wrong. Besides what are they supposed to do with say Warsong gulch? Its just a capture the flag map. I mean that kind of stuff has been around for decades before WoW was even released. Really not a lot they can do to the old stuff. And clearly they have added some new stuff as well.
Actually yes they have done a lot for pvp, unfortanately everything they have done has made pvp worse and worse. For anyone who's played before the honor system was ever implemented you know that pvp was much better when it was all world pvp and none of this grinding for gear crap that it is today.
This is why i'm not coming back to WoW, it's just stagnant with the same battlegrounds that isn't designed with skill and tactics in mind.
If they were smart, they would hire some talented FPS mappers, ones that actually know how to design a Player versus Player experience.