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==__McCain and Obama's Tax Plan__==
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actually WW2 created something that fixed it not socialism. Disposable income, many familes had years of income they earned during WW2 and didnt spend it until it was over.
the move towards socialism started the deopression , as those with the ability left and stopped spending.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
And what are the problems of universal health care?
Ill give you a real world example of how something like this ( even controlled to a small % of the population )hurts every single american.
Gm spends almost 40% of its income providing bebnefits to its retired employess. Small part of american population , to carry that small % of americans, every single car they makes cost 2700$ to make than it should. That makes it really hard for them to compete in the global market , meaning they can not compete building cars inside the USA or allocate as much to research( to make better cars) as other companies can who dont have this expense. this bleeds down into places where plants close here and move to mexico , Austria, Russia , Shanghai, anywhere but USA. How does that benefit anyone?
How does this apply to us now?
universal healthcare cost will impose this liability to EVERY SINGLE american company. Social Security alone will be the ENTIRE income of the US govt by 2018( according to the current congress) , i dont see how universal health care is going to cost less than that.
What happens when every single person or company that is successful has to drop 40-50% of its income to support others ? Look to GM. theres your answer in REAL LIFE not theory ,not we think , not i promise as president.
EDITand per your exmple , what does spending a dime in Iraq have to do with taxes? Thats kills your own damn argument. Thats money Borrowed by a congress that cant be trusted to spend the mioney they have NOW to do anything for good. But you are willing to beleive that they will spend this other money in some other way?
No, you just gave the perfect example for why universal health care would help the big corporations, GM wouldn't have to spend nearly as much money if their retired employees were given health care by the government. And I only said the thing about Iraq because you were the one who brought up the wasting taxes thing.
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"Capitalism is currently working as intended."
But it isn't a waste of taxes to spend 500,000,000 dollars a day in Iraq, right? Wait, that's right, it's not wasting taxes because it isn't using American taxes, it's using China's taxes.
Let's take a look at what's worse for an economy.
Scenario 1: There is a 5% top percentile of rich people, while the rest are the struggling middle class, the even more struggling working class, and the hopeless poverty.
Scenario 2: The people that make around 2,000,000 dollars a year give a third of their income a year to make it so that no one is struggling, no one is hopeless. Those people that gave 700,00 dollars still make over a million dollars a year. Lets say that 300,000 dollars they have goes to housing costs, big screen TVs, all the stuff people spend stuff on. Then, they put the rest of their money, 1,000,000 dollars in the bank. How much money would they make on a low 5% interest on that 1,000,000 dollars in one year? 50,000 dollars. That's a more than decent income for any person, and it only adds to this persons wealth.
Which scenario sounds more harmful?
your points only bring more 'struggling' to the system. keep giving free shit away and the 'problem' greatens.
the gross masses can be lazy if given the chance.
ill cite the projects in NYC as an example. growing up here, working there gave me a unique perspective. there was a contamination or, there still is a contamination of women getting pregnant for an apartment and checks. the lazy 'poor' people have every chance in the world to do well in high school and go to city university or state if they're good enough.
lazy society, dependent society you will grow with your socialism. toughen up and give the bums some change if you feel compelled to. give to charity. whatever, dont put this country in shambles by making everyone content adn complacent.
College? Did the money factor slip your mind? College costs thousands and thousands of dollars. Hell my sister who was a valedictorian, got a 33 on her ACT, and 2nd at State in swimming, still had to pay thousands of dollars. College costs big bucks.
dont recite the bible on me. i know jesus' struggles. americas 'poor' cant hold a candle to them. jesus would say to get a job, look at the pain im in up here-
ill take care of the sick or crippled.
and when is social security going to be fixed!
let me blow my brains out all over this monitor. blam. guess what? i just lost all that money i have been putting in to social security. my family doesnt even get it. how sick is this shit?
cradle to the grave.
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
student loan.banks tend to invest in american students willing to sacrifice a little PS3 GTA time for hard work. it gets paid back when you get a job. plus the govt. has tons to offer for low income students.
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Jesus would be a socialist.
------------------------------
"Capitalism is currently working as intended."
Such blatant lack of care about the less fortunate continues to astound me.
You are not alone. I amazed that this is what our society has come to nowadays. I never thought people could be so cold but the posts on this thread just shed more light what state our society as a whole is coming to. These are the people who think they are better than the homeless man on the curb begging for money or the janitor at his work place. I don't know where the compassion for other humans went. These people probaly consider themselves Christians to. All you can do is feel sorry them, they are too stubborn to change their mind.
how exactly does it help to punish success and reward for nothing?
compassion isnt giving a man a fish , its teaching him to fish.
your definition of compassion translates to slavery. Create a society where it is perfectly OK to do nothing , to have no goals, to have no hope, to have no desires. Why try for success when life gives you everything it has taken from others who wanted nothing mroe than to do more than the other guy?
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Multiple Accounts
To the OP, creating an alternate username after you have been permabanned is a violation of the RoC with mmorpg.com. Stop creating alt accounts.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Such blatant lack of care about the less fortunate continues to astound me.
You are not alone. I amazed that this is what our society has come to nowadays. I never thought people could be so cold but the posts on this thread just shed more light what state our society as a whole is coming to. These are the people who think they are better than the homeless man on the curb begging for money or the janitor at his work place. I don't know where the compassion for other humans went. These people probaly consider themselves Christians to. All you can do is feel sorry them, they are too stubborn to change their mind.
how exactly does it help to punish success and reward for nothing?
compassion isnt giving a man a fish , its teaching him to fish.
your definition of compassion translates to slavery. Create a society where it is perfectly OK to do nothing , to have no goals, to have no hope, to have no desires. Why try for success when life gives you everything it has taken from others who wanted nothing mroe than to do more than the other guy?
Okay, then teach them to fish. Pay for their schooling and their food so that they can become a productive upstanding citizen like yourself.
------------------------------
"Capitalism is currently working as intended."
And what are the problems of universal health care?
Ill give you a real world example of how something like this ( even controlled to a small % of the population )hurts every single american.
Gm spends almost 40% of its income providing bebnefits to its retired employess. Small part of american population , to carry that small % of americans, every single car they makes cost 2700$ to make than it should. That makes it really hard for them to compete in the global market , meaning they can not compete building cars inside the USA or allocate as much to research( to make better cars) as other companies can who dont have this expense. this bleeds down into places where plants close here and move to mexico , Austria, Russia , Shanghai, anywhere but USA. How does that benefit anyone?
How does this apply to us now?
universal healthcare cost will impose this liability to EVERY SINGLE american company. Social Security alone will be the ENTIRE income of the US govt by 2018( according to the current congress) , i dont see how universal health care is going to cost less than that.
What happens when every single person or company that is successful has to drop 40-50% of its income to support others ? Look to GM. theres your answer in REAL LIFE not theory ,not we think , not i promise as president.
EDITand per your exmple , what does spending a dime in Iraq have to do with taxes? Thats kills your own damn argument. Thats money Borrowed by a congress that cant be trusted to spend the mioney they have NOW to do anything for good. But you are willing to beleive that they will spend this other money in some other way?
No, you just gave the perfect example for why universal health care would help the big corporations, GM wouldn't have to spend nearly as much money if their retired employees were given health care by the government. And I only said the thing about Iraq because you were the one who brought up the wasting taxes thing.
really ? they wouldnt have that cost in that form , they would have to pay 40% of their income to the new tax plan , that by the way doesnt include the costs for universal health care meaning more than 40% goes to cover this.
pay attention here ,. just because you call it something else 40% for benefits vs 40% for universal health care tax it still 40%.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Such blatant lack of care about the less fortunate continues to astound me.
You are not alone. I amazed that this is what our society has come to nowadays. I never thought people could be so cold but the posts on this thread just shed more light what state our society as a whole is coming to. These are the people who think they are better than the homeless man on the curb begging for money or the janitor at his work place. I don't know where the compassion for other humans went. These people probaly consider themselves Christians to. All you can do is feel sorry them, they are too stubborn to change their mind.
how exactly does it help to punish success and reward for nothing?
compassion isnt giving a man a fish , its teaching him to fish.
your definition of compassion translates to slavery. Create a society where it is perfectly OK to do nothing , to have no goals, to have no hope, to have no desires. Why try for success when life gives you everything it has taken from others who wanted nothing mroe than to do more than the other guy?
Okay, then teach them to fish. Pay for their schooling and their food so that they can become a productive upstanding citizen like yourself.
i do know that now a person can go to school for about 800$ a semester in Austin to a real college if they want, due to taxes i pay now. So everyone cant go to harvard, big deal; they can go school , they just have to go and maybe sacrifice some time or other costs , i went to school on the public ticket , + served time in the ARMY and got disabled by being shot twice.
I guess i passed on TV and studied instead. Missed alot of social things too , didnt know everything about the lastest video game and ate alot of ramen.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
What I love is that that bottom 50% (Which I am a part of) pays nothing in taxes. Sure they take out money throughout the year but they give me way more back when I file my taxes. AS in they take out about 1-2K and I get back about 5K-6K. I think Obama's tax plan is idiotic. It isn't supported by history either.
Tax income has always increased when the highest tax bracket has decreased. Yes I know that seems foreign to you socialists but Capitalist make more money and pay more taxes when you tax them less.
Obama's plan is going to fail and it will fail in a major way. And guess who will have to foot the bill for that universal healthcare, increased domestic spending, and billions in foreign aid that Obama wants to give? The middle class. Because after Obama implements those plans and finds out he actually gets a decrease in his tax receipts from the rich he will come after the middle class with a tax increase.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Don't make up facts. I don't know what state or how the hell you pay nothing in taxes because I sure do and so does the average American. Wait I am a socialist for supporting taxing the rich more and making a middle class? I guess am a proud socialist then. Your entire last paragraph is just one big "what if." Right Obama's tax plan is better than McCain
Such blatant lack of care about the less fortunate continues to astound me.
You are not alone. I amazed that this is what our society has come to nowadays. I never thought people could be so cold but the posts on this thread just shed more light what state our society as a whole is coming to. These are the people who think they are better than the homeless man on the curb begging for money or the janitor at his work place. I don't know where the compassion for other humans went. These people probaly consider themselves Christians to. All you can do is feel sorry them, they are too stubborn to change their mind.
how exactly does it help to punish success and reward for nothing?
compassion isnt giving a man a fish , its teaching him to fish.
your definition of compassion translates to slavery. Create a society where it is perfectly OK to do nothing , to have no goals, to have no hope, to have no desires. Why try for success when life gives you everything it has taken from others who wanted nothing mroe than to do more than the other guy?
Okay, then teach them to fish. Pay for their schooling and their food so that they can become a productive upstanding citizen like yourself.
i do know that now a person can go to school for about 800$ a semester in Austin to a real college if they want, due to taxes i pay now. So everyone cant go to harvard, big deal; they can go school , they just have to go and maybe sacrifice some time or other costs , i went to school on the public ticket , + served time in the ARMY and got disabled by being shot twice.
I guess i passed on TV and studied instead. Missed alot of social things too , didnt know everything about the lastest video game and ate alot of ramen.
$800? No way.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
EffectiveTax Rates
Most recent nonpartisan data I could find is from 2005.
As this data shows that the effective individual income tax was -3.21% on the bottom 59.7% of households.
In 2005 it was -4.5 on the bottom 59.7% of househoulds.
So yes the average american's personal income tax liability ends up being nothing. Sure we all pay Social Security tax and Medicare/Medicaid tax but Obama isn't decreasing those taxes at all. He is talking about Personal Income tax.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
$800? No way.
Its actually less then that. You can get a degree from a community college for pretty cheap nowadays without putting much effort in. Thats if you don't wanna work for it.
You can work at getting the money to go to a higher education or Ivy League school. There are thousands of grants and scholarships given yearly for a pleathora of criteria if you are not a white male. Then there are a few hundred for anyone. Obtaining these though requires a bit of leg work which many aren't willing to do. However, the thing is if you can't do the leg work to get the scholarships and grants to pay for a high-priced education, chances are you can't do the leg work to apply that high-priced education.
so instead of arguing , i guess i ask .
How would ANY economy prosper when its based on the pillar that 50% of the population is required to support the other 50%?
What happens as less people are "rich" each tax cycle because there is no reward for achievement except to pay someone elses bills? ( as in why work harder , uncle same will pay your dr bills , mortgage , school , food, as long as you dont achieve anything over 44,000$ a year , who would even try?)
How does this help create a middle class when we KNOW this same thinking caused the great depression? ( when rich people stop spending money there is no middle class , its entire existance is based on that 5% of the population spening money, how does it work when they stop spending,?)
as a consequence this also was one of many direct causes of WW2. ( we KNOW this leads to world war , its been tested already )
The tax cuts by obama mean that if you dont pay anything in taxes now, you will pay less than zero somehow and everyone beleives that it is possible to pay less than zero.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
We know what leads to a world war? You've made this comment before, but like the majority of your posts, I haven't been able to figure out what you are talking about.
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"Capitalism is currently working as intended."
Its not my job to explain actual history to you as to why WW2 started , the reason germany decided it was better off with hitler incharge or japan needed to annex manchuria.
Alot of people here DO know these economic things things were major factors as to why the world exploded in the 1930's -1940's and the root of almost all of it was money.
Stop buying into some made up fantasy economics thrown at you by a politician and look back , really lkook back at what happened to kick off the great depression and its world reaching problems.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
I spent an entire semester last year studying World War Two. I am very familiar with the causes, which makes me confused about what cause you are referring to. Is it expansionist fascist regimes? Bad planning in Versailles at the end of World War One? Please, enlighten me.
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"Capitalism is currently working as intended."
No im gana stop my self from getting another warning on thes fourms. Keep up the good work Gorair and Blue
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
i find that hard to beleive if you dont realize that the entire issue was one of economics ...
WHY did they(japan) need to expand in the first place...
What did the treaty cause to happen in germany ...
damn
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
They Don't teach this stuff in Public schools because the Liberal teachers Know it throws their Entire way of thinking in to Chaos. Sad really.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Yes, but how is using taxes to help the poor at all related to the economic issues that led to World War Two?
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"Capitalism is currently working as intended."