I've watched alotta WAR beta pvp movies and like alotta people've pointed out it's obvious that while WAR pvp system is great, WAR pvp mechanic is poor. Looks like the game is still fun but I hope Mythic will change thier minds and implement more CC in WAR to make it more diverse and interactive. Then this game will shine like a diamond.
Again, another poster bolstering lack of CC. There is CC in the game LOL. Rogues get stealth at like lvl 2 or 4 in WoW, you don't get it until 10 in Warhammer, but witch-elves also have kick abilities, and silence and so on later in the game too.
GO READ THE CLASS DESCRIPTIONS AND ALL of their abilities up to level 40, don't post on something you have no knowledge about. Warrior's do get charge, rogues get a kick like ability, healers get a silence, everyone seems to think that level 20 was the cap of this game and that was the end all. lol, Rogues don't even get cloak of shadows until like 66, and it's one of their strongest abilities. Stop assuming the game resides in the level range of 1-20.
I've seen them all. And I asked people about them. I knew what I wanted to find out so I got my answers... Casters have very few CC options, and they are mostly shortlasting, and melees can make themselves almost totally immune to them, and toons got too much hp, and damage isn't that great... So it's very hard to exclude someone from the fight for enough time to get some advantage. And the only option left is to kill all opponents as fast as possible.
Level 10. I know where you are going with this, but I've read through the skills, you can see all of them at the trainers. There are no new combat features. There's no charge, no distract, no teleport, no fear, and so on. It does have damage, dots, heals, hots, buffs but so do all of the free to plays. The most inovative feature Mythic introduced was solid toons. If someone is fleeing, you can run around in front of them, after a snare, and stop them dead in their tracks. I don't think it's too much to expect more from a new game or at least the same ol, what Mythic is selling us is less.
-- Games are never as fun as their hype. It's still doing the same things as 90% of the MMOs ever since EQ1 wrote the template for 3D MMOs.
-- You can't ever be that newbie again. Not Warhammer, not WoW, not AoC, or any other MMO out there claiming originality.
-- You, I, and many other people won't be satisfied until once again we can be immersed,as newbs once more, into a mysterious realm of which we know nothing.
I've watched alotta WAR beta pvp movies and like alotta people've pointed out it's obvious that while WAR pvp system is great, WAR pvp mechanic is poor. Looks like the game is still fun but I hope Mythic will change thier minds and implement more CC in WAR to make it more diverse and interactive. Then this game will shine like a diamond.
Again, another poster bolstering lack of CC. There is CC in the game LOL. Rogues get stealth at like lvl 2 or 4 in WoW, you don't get it until 10 in Warhammer, but witch-elves also have kick abilities, and silence and so on later in the game too.
GO READ THE CLASS DESCRIPTIONS AND ALL of their abilities up to level 40, don't post on something you have no knowledge about. Warrior's do get charge, rogues get a kick like ability, healers get a silence, everyone seems to think that level 20 was the cap of this game and that was the end all. lol, Rogues don't even get cloak of shadows until like 66, and it's one of their strongest abilities. Stop assuming the game resides in the level range of 1-20.
I've seen them all. And I asked people about them. I knew what I wanted to find out so I got my answers...
Casters have very few CC options, and they are mostly shortlasting, and melees can make themselves almost totally immune to them, and toons got too much hp, and damage isn't that great... So it's very hard to exclude someone from the fight for enough time to get some advantage. And the only option left is to kill all opponents as fast as possible.
You talk of this game way to much from a one versus one point of view. This is not wow, goodness, this game promotes team action, and team action is where it's at.
And if you look at wow, 5v5 arena is the popular choice for skill based fights, the "ultimate" challenge and requires the most skill. Becuase it's diverse, so don't give me that "there should be a solo version" bullshit or anything like that, go join a scenario and run around gankin' the ones standing in the back.
I have ran into plenty of fights where it was me versus 2 or me versus 1 in scenario's, and I have had quite a few RVR experiences where it was a few of us against a few of them. When we organized and played well, we could take a much larger group than us that were just zerging. It's all TEAM strategy, let me say that one mor time to make sure you get it, TEAM STRATEGY and tactics that make this game fun. Just as arena 5v5 is in wow, you think the people in the top 10 ladder spots of 5v5 got there by stunning a warlocks black fists? give me a break.
-- Games are never as fun as their hype. It's still doing the same things as 90% of the MMOs ever since EQ1 wrote the template for 3D MMOs.
-- You can't ever be that newbie again. Not Warhammer, not WoW, not AoC, or any other MMO out there claiming originality.
-- You, I, and many other people won't be satisfied until once again we can be immersed,as newbs once more, into a mysterious realm of which we know nothing.
Originally posted by djsmileey Originally posted by Kshahdoo
Originally posted by djsmileey
Originally posted by Kshahdoo
I've watched alotta WAR beta pvp movies and like alotta people've pointed out it's obvious that while WAR pvp system is great, WAR pvp mechanic is poor. Looks like the game is still fun but I hope Mythic will change thier minds and implement more CC in WAR to make it more diverse and interactive. Then this game will shine like a diamond.
Again, another poster bolstering lack of CC. There is CC in the game LOL. Rogues get stealth at like lvl 2 or 4 in WoW, you don't get it until 10 in Warhammer, but witch-elves also have kick abilities, and silence and so on later in the game too.
GO READ THE CLASS DESCRIPTIONS AND ALL of their abilities up to level 40, don't post on something you have no knowledge about. Warrior's do get charge, rogues get a kick like ability, healers get a silence, everyone seems to think that level 20 was the cap of this game and that was the end all. lol, Rogues don't even get cloak of shadows until like 66, and it's one of their strongest abilities. Stop assuming the game resides in the level range of 1-20.
I've seen them all. And I asked people about them. I knew what I wanted to find out so I got my answers... Casters have very few CC options, and they are mostly shortlasting, and melees can make themselves almost totally immune to them, and toons got too much hp, and damage isn't that great... So it's very hard to exclude someone from the fight for enough time to get some advantage. And the only option left is to kill all opponents as fast as possible.
You talk of this game way to much from a one versus one point of view. This is not wow, goodness, this game promotes team action, and team action is where it's at. And if you look at wow, 5v5 arena is the popular choice for skill based fights, the "ultimate" challenge and requires the most skill. Becuase it's diverse, so don't give me that "there should be a solo version" bullshit or anything like that, go join a scenario and run around gankin' the ones standing in the back.
I have ran into plenty of fights where it was me versus 2 or me versus 1 in scenario's, and I have had quite a few RVR experiences where it was a few of us against a few of them. When we organized and played well, we could take a much larger group than us that were just zerging. It's all TEAM strategy, let me say that one mor time to make sure you get it, TEAM STRATEGY and tactics that make this game fun. Just as arena 5v5 is in wow, you think the people in the top 10 ladder spots of 5v5 got there by stunning a warlocks black fists? give me a break.
And what this "strategy" is? Having right set-up when your opponents don't? It won't be any surprize for me if, say, tank, melee dps, and healer beat 6 BW or like. But will it be on account of a "proper strategy"?
The real fight is when both sides are roughly equel. And for this I've failed so far to see any "strategy" aside from direct damage.
Ksandoo said: The real fight is when both sides are roughly equel. And for this I've failed so far to see any "strategy" aside from direct damage.
In scenarios at least, the only strategy I saw was healers healing. It reminded me of WSG or AB, I'm not seeing sheld walls of black orcs like I was suspecting.
So to say that this game is about group while WoW is about 1-person means that the single characters in this game are boring and require several people to make it interesting. Garbage.
yes, thats why its a MULTIPLAYER game, it requires several people to make it interesting. your logic is horrible and I'm going to assume you aren't actually stupid enough to believe it, so you are just trolling.
Whatever you say bucko. DIviding the skills of what normally 1-player has in an MMO into about 3 people just makes the game all the less dynamic. I'm glad you like the fact that everyone gets frost nova and variety is limited, I really am, but no I am not a troll. This game is not what a lot of us were expecting and while still good, it's not a great game. Combat isn't dynamic enough to make long-term PvP sound fun, unlike WoW where it was incredibly combat while lacking content, which actually worked to a degree. Keep pushin, novice.
So to say that this game is about group while WoW is about 1-person means that the single characters in this game are boring and require several people to make it interesting. Garbage.
yes, thats why its a MULTIPLAYER game, it requires several people to make it interesting. your logic is horrible and I'm going to assume you aren't actually stupid enough to believe it, so you are just trolling.
Whatever you say bucko. DIviding the skills of what normally 1-player has in an MMO into about 3 people just makes the game all the less dynamic. I'm glad you like the fact that everyone gets frost nova and variety is limited, I really am, but no I am not a troll. This game is not what a lot of us were expecting and while still good, it's not a great game. Combat isn't dynamic enough to make long-term PvP sound fun, unlike WoW where it was incredibly combat while lacking content, which actually worked to a degree. Keep pushin, novice.
This game is everything I was waiting for. I'm so glad Mythic did'nt copy wow that much. If this game was wow 2 i would simply pass and wait for wotlk. This game is what a lot of us were expecting, wich is something different pvp based (see that work both way).
Incredible combat in wow? You mean the arena? I got wow 2 weeks after the release and I was what they call a pvp junkie, always in AV. Again, glad they changed all the mechanic, gonna play this game for a long while.
World of Warcraft uses a Rock, Paper, Scissor method of class balance. As long as one class is capable of beating another then everything is balanced. In theory this should be perfect but, as anyone who played from release up till now can tell you, its not. Every patch they have a class that needs reworked because the Formula doesn't add up right. A nerf here and a buff there in hopes to obtain the RPS balance has proven not to be well liked by the players. WoW PvP was designed with RPS in mind. This is why people will say WoW is not team balanced.
Warhammer uses a very different dynamic and admittedly more complicated system from balance. They don't look at Tanks and say "Tanks should almost always beat a caster baring skill or gear." Each class has a purpose in group based encounters. Every class has a form of CC that allows them to get their jobs done. The casters have root, Stealthers have snare, Tanks and Ranged DPS have knock down. Not to mention the mix of disarm, silence, and debuffs specifically designed to give your group time to fulfill their specific roles.
Zerg to an extent can help in certain areas, like claiming Battle Field Objectives in some cases. However Zergs for Keep sieges just provide a nice supply of targets for Siege Defenses. I cannot comment on the later RvR zones but I can say that some of them show that terrain is great equalizer when outnumbered.
Overall the strategies available for WAR have been diverse. I have been impressed with what a group with good communication can do and what a unorganized zerg cannot do.
My reply to the OP is get higher level and then come back to me and discuss it again.
Some examples of what classes get.
Chosen
Bane Shield - very powerful damage shield that lasts 10 seconds.
Blast Wave - Short term buff that pumps up spell resist and if you resist a spell it silences the caster.
Dizzying Blow - snare
Downfall - a 4 second knock down ability
Guard - You take half the dmg instead of your defensive target.
Hold the Line - Dodge/Disrupt buff for you and all allies behind you.
Juggernaut - Snare/Root/Stun/Disarm remover
Oppression - block/parry reactionary that slows down cast times for person hit by it.
Petrify - AE root.
Quake - knockdown
Repel - knockback ability
Taunt - interrupts current building ability plus the 30% dmg bonus
Touch of Palsy - ability that makes someone take dmg if they move
Withering Blade - AP sap ability
I didn't even include the curses or their tactics or morale or any of their normal attacks or dots. These classes are every bit as complex as classes in WoW if not moreso. They just don't get all of their abilities in the first handful of levels like in most games. They constantly get new abilities every level through the whole game.
Sorceress - won't post just typical nukes or AE or generic buffs/debuffs, just the more timer based abilities.
Absorb Vitality - life siphon.
Cataclysmic Darkness - dmg+snare
Detaunt - 50% dmg reduction ability
Grip of Fear - AE root
Stricken Limbs - 5 second disarm
Stricken Voices - 5 second AE silence
Crippling Terror - Silence+Disarm morale ability
Focused Mind - silence/disarm/root/snare removal morale ability
Misdirection - Morale ability that reflects magic.
Paralyzing Nightmares - Dmg+root morale ability
Scintillating Energy - stun+dmg morale ability
Siphon Power - 200 AP siphon morale ability
Soul Stealer - AP drain morale ability
Unleash the Winds - AE knock away morale ability
Wind-Woven Shell - 20% group dmg reduction morale ability.
Even the most basic of nuking classes gets 6 timer based utility spells that need to be used in very specific situations and a load of morale abilities that do it. Again I didn't list all the little resistance buffs or abilities that debuff while doing dmg etc. This is not a use one ability over and over type of game at all. Players who understand what the other classes can do and time their abilities better will have a big advantage.
OP this isnt wow...many of the people have said it and just get over it....ender4 or whoever the poster above you gave supreme examples of roots/snares and you simply ignore them because they also offer debuffs. im sorry your shaman wont have a grounding totem and your rune priest wont have hammer of justice or your archmage won't be able to MC people off cliffs and your zealot wont be able to AE psychic scream...its not WOW
Even the most basic of nuking classes gets 6 timer based utility spells that need to be used in very specific situations
All I'm seeing is damage, DOT, buff and debuff. You can get any of these combat features in a free to play like MapleStory
I want to see charge, distract, flare, fear, mind control and so on.
WAR combat features are vintage 1997 combat features. WAR combat features existed in the original EQ.
All Tanks have abilities that not only make you do less damage to someone they are guarding but also increase their damage until you man up and focus on them.
Marauders have an attack which will pull your target to you in addition they also have a charge ability.
Fear is in Warhammer but it functions as Debuff.
Flare isn't bad but nothing really like it is in the Warhammer lore.
Even the most basic of nuking classes gets 6 timer based utility spells that need to be used in very specific situations
All I'm seeing is damage, DOT, buff and debuff. You can get any of these combat features in a free to play like MapleStory
I want to see charge, distract, flare, fear, mind control and so on.
WAR combat features are vintage 1997 combat features. WAR combat features existed in the original EQ.
Wow man, you post that under a guy with a pretty long list on just 2 classes of CC. Then you list charge, distract, flare, and mind control as crowd control... It's beyond laughable. This is seriously the worst troll I've seen in a long time. Charge, buggy as it is doesn't do anything anything than get you on a melee class. Ranged classes will put you into combat long before you can get it off. Distract...seriously...come on if you are lucky your opponent turns around for a split second. Barely even worth mentioning as CC. Flare... It's not even CC. Mind Control, good luck getting that off in pvp. Even if you do, everyone packs a pvp trinket and enjoy the sad returns on that charm the second attempt.
Like it's been said, it isn't wow 2. But I've biten at the bait, so I suppose you've done your job.
Warhammer is not about strategy or tactics.. it's about zerging. Whoever has the most players wins. There is very little CC, interupts or any real mechanism besides straight DPS. Your team of 20 people runs up to their group of 10 people, and you all do as much burst damage as possible. It doesn't matter who you are fighting, you will do the same thing to everyone.
Oh.. and make sure you roll a class with DOT's.. they will make you level much faster than everyone else.
All about zerging, eh? Looks like someone doesn't understand basic tactics.
When I was doing open RvR with my swordmaster, I ended up in a warband of 10 people. 3 other swordmasters, 4 shadow warriors, and 2 archmages. Someone said, "Swordmasters up front, archmages right behind, shadow warriors to the rear and sides." We grouped up. We were running around when we sighted at least 15 destruction players coming towards us. The mages and shadow warriors opened fire at range as we stopped. The Destruction players zerged us...
And hit the wall of swordmasters, the mages started healing the swordmasters as the shadow warriors kicked it into close range combat. A few minutes later, 15 dead Destruction to 1 dead shadow warrior.
The Destruction players couldn't get to our healers with melee attacks because of the collision mechanics of WAR (something WoW is missing). This enables tanks to do their job in PvP, eat damage. The healers kept us up as we kept them alive... and the DPS classes dropped our foes (with some damage provided by the tanks).
You can't zerg against a well organized group when you have collision mechanics because you can't get enough damage on their healers to break the line. I suggest you buy this book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War You can find it at almost any bookstore. Learn to use tactics and strategy... and you will be a PvP machine against the zerg.
ichi said: What I've seen so far about WAR combat is that its slower (something I'm not thrilled about) but its less dependant on a tailored, rigid set of moves depending on what class/spec your facing and more about having the right tactics and morale abilities picked before hand (something I approve of) and good reactions to things you might not expect If you have fewer choices to make during combat, you're saying that is good? The thing about PvP is sure, a frost mage will almost always kill a warrior, but say I notice a wall, and I run behind it so the mage can't target me? That's introducing something new and unexpected for the mage. PvP is better than scripted PvE because your human opponant will throw things at you you never expected. Removing freedom and choice is not a good thing in pvp combat. Its a new game and should have more combat features, not less.
WOWs fear no way, WOWs stun no ty, WOWs pvp in general can go far far away from this game. That my friend is not what people are buying this game for.
Ksandoo said: The real fight is when both sides are roughly equel. And for this I've failed so far to see any "strategy" aside from direct damage. In scenarios at least, the only strategy I saw was healers healing. It reminded me of WSG or AB, I'm not seeing sheld walls of black orcs like I was suspecting.
I'm honestly surprised how people like you can expect a PUG to be pulling off all these amazing strats in a game they've been playing for 1-2 days. Did you try to organize a group? Did you try to orgamize all the tanks into forming a wall? Did you try to get your group to do various strategies? If not, then you can just stfu right now. I was able to organize a group. I was able to get them to use collision detection effectively. I was able to organize flanks to pick off all the squishy casters from behind. What was amazing was that even the PUGs listened sometimes. Sounds like you're expecting them to just jump into this game and be expert strategists without any form of leadership. That's just not going to happen.
Comments
I've seen them all. And I asked people about them. I knew what I wanted to find out so I got my answers...
Casters have very few CC options, and they are mostly shortlasting, and melees can make themselves almost totally immune to them, and toons got too much hp, and damage isn't that great... So it's very hard to exclude someone from the fight for enough time to get some advantage. And the only option left is to kill all opponents as fast as possible.
What a crappy lock.
wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
Lots of stuns, interupts, silences, charges, running, chasing, hamstrings, poisons, holds, immunes, entangles..
You are way off sir. Good day.
-- Games are never as fun as their hype. It's still doing the same things as 90% of the MMOs ever since EQ1 wrote the template for 3D MMOs.
-- You can't ever be that newbie again. Not Warhammer, not WoW, not AoC, or any other MMO out there claiming originality.
-- You, I, and many other people won't be satisfied until once again we can be immersed,as newbs once more, into a mysterious realm of which we know nothing.
Again, another poster bolstering lack of CC. There is CC in the game LOL. Rogues get stealth at like lvl 2 or 4 in WoW, you don't get it until 10 in Warhammer, but witch-elves also have kick abilities, and silence and so on later in the game too.
GO READ THE CLASS DESCRIPTIONS AND ALL of their abilities up to level 40, don't post on something you have no knowledge about. Warrior's do get charge, rogues get a kick like ability, healers get a silence, everyone seems to think that level 20 was the cap of this game and that was the end all. lol, Rogues don't even get cloak of shadows until like 66, and it's one of their strongest abilities. Stop assuming the game resides in the level range of 1-20.
I've seen them all. And I asked people about them. I knew what I wanted to find out so I got my answers...
Casters have very few CC options, and they are mostly shortlasting, and melees can make themselves almost totally immune to them, and toons got too much hp, and damage isn't that great... So it's very hard to exclude someone from the fight for enough time to get some advantage. And the only option left is to kill all opponents as fast as possible.
You talk of this game way to much from a one versus one point of view. This is not wow, goodness, this game promotes team action, and team action is where it's at.
And if you look at wow, 5v5 arena is the popular choice for skill based fights, the "ultimate" challenge and requires the most skill. Becuase it's diverse, so don't give me that "there should be a solo version" bullshit or anything like that, go join a scenario and run around gankin' the ones standing in the back.
I have ran into plenty of fights where it was me versus 2 or me versus 1 in scenario's, and I have had quite a few RVR experiences where it was a few of us against a few of them. When we organized and played well, we could take a much larger group than us that were just zerging. It's all TEAM strategy, let me say that one mor time to make sure you get it, TEAM STRATEGY and tactics that make this game fun. Just as arena 5v5 is in wow, you think the people in the top 10 ladder spots of 5v5 got there by stunning a warlocks black fists? give me a break.
-- Games are never as fun as their hype. It's still doing the same things as 90% of the MMOs ever since EQ1 wrote the template for 3D MMOs.
-- You can't ever be that newbie again. Not Warhammer, not WoW, not AoC, or any other MMO out there claiming originality.
-- You, I, and many other people won't be satisfied until once again we can be immersed,as newbs once more, into a mysterious realm of which we know nothing.
Again, another poster bolstering lack of CC. There is CC in the game LOL. Rogues get stealth at like lvl 2 or 4 in WoW, you don't get it until 10 in Warhammer, but witch-elves also have kick abilities, and silence and so on later in the game too.
GO READ THE CLASS DESCRIPTIONS AND ALL of their abilities up to level 40, don't post on something you have no knowledge about. Warrior's do get charge, rogues get a kick like ability, healers get a silence, everyone seems to think that level 20 was the cap of this game and that was the end all. lol, Rogues don't even get cloak of shadows until like 66, and it's one of their strongest abilities. Stop assuming the game resides in the level range of 1-20.
I've seen them all. And I asked people about them. I knew what I wanted to find out so I got my answers...
Casters have very few CC options, and they are mostly shortlasting, and melees can make themselves almost totally immune to them, and toons got too much hp, and damage isn't that great... So it's very hard to exclude someone from the fight for enough time to get some advantage. And the only option left is to kill all opponents as fast as possible.
You talk of this game way to much from a one versus one point of view. This is not wow, goodness, this game promotes team action, and team action is where it's at.
And if you look at wow, 5v5 arena is the popular choice for skill based fights, the "ultimate" challenge and requires the most skill. Becuase it's diverse, so don't give me that "there should be a solo version" bullshit or anything like that, go join a scenario and run around gankin' the ones standing in the back.
I have ran into plenty of fights where it was me versus 2 or me versus 1 in scenario's, and I have had quite a few RVR experiences where it was a few of us against a few of them. When we organized and played well, we could take a much larger group than us that were just zerging. It's all TEAM strategy, let me say that one mor time to make sure you get it, TEAM STRATEGY and tactics that make this game fun. Just as arena 5v5 is in wow, you think the people in the top 10 ladder spots of 5v5 got there by stunning a warlocks black fists? give me a break.
And what this "strategy" is? Having right set-up when your opponents don't? It won't be any surprize for me if, say, tank, melee dps, and healer beat 6 BW or like. But will it be on account of a "proper strategy"?
The real fight is when both sides are roughly equel. And for this I've failed so far to see any "strategy" aside from direct damage.
Ksandoo said: The real fight is when both sides are roughly equel. And for this I've failed so far to see any "strategy" aside from direct damage.
In scenarios at least, the only strategy I saw was healers healing. It reminded me of WSG or AB, I'm not seeing sheld walls of black orcs like I was suspecting.
You wont' see tactics & stratedgy from unorganized pugs...go against a pre made and you will.
yes, thats why its a MULTIPLAYER game, it requires several people to make it interesting. your logic is horrible and I'm going to assume you aren't actually stupid enough to believe it, so you are just trolling.
Whatever you say bucko. DIviding the skills of what normally 1-player has in an MMO into about 3 people just makes the game all the less dynamic. I'm glad you like the fact that everyone gets frost nova and variety is limited, I really am, but no I am not a troll. This game is not what a lot of us were expecting and while still good, it's not a great game. Combat isn't dynamic enough to make long-term PvP sound fun, unlike WoW where it was incredibly combat while lacking content, which actually worked to a degree. Keep pushin, novice.
yes, thats why its a MULTIPLAYER game, it requires several people to make it interesting. your logic is horrible and I'm going to assume you aren't actually stupid enough to believe it, so you are just trolling.
Whatever you say bucko. DIviding the skills of what normally 1-player has in an MMO into about 3 people just makes the game all the less dynamic. I'm glad you like the fact that everyone gets frost nova and variety is limited, I really am, but no I am not a troll. This game is not what a lot of us were expecting and while still good, it's not a great game. Combat isn't dynamic enough to make long-term PvP sound fun, unlike WoW where it was incredibly combat while lacking content, which actually worked to a degree. Keep pushin, novice.
This game is everything I was waiting for. I'm so glad Mythic did'nt copy wow that much. If this game was wow 2 i would simply pass and wait for wotlk. This game is what a lot of us were expecting, wich is something different pvp based (see that work both way).
Incredible combat in wow? You mean the arena? I got wow 2 weeks after the release and I was what they call a pvp junkie, always in AV. Again, glad they changed all the mechanic, gonna play this game for a long while.
World of Warcraft uses a Rock, Paper, Scissor method of class balance. As long as one class is capable of beating another then everything is balanced. In theory this should be perfect but, as anyone who played from release up till now can tell you, its not. Every patch they have a class that needs reworked because the Formula doesn't add up right. A nerf here and a buff there in hopes to obtain the RPS balance has proven not to be well liked by the players. WoW PvP was designed with RPS in mind. This is why people will say WoW is not team balanced.
Warhammer uses a very different dynamic and admittedly more complicated system from balance. They don't look at Tanks and say "Tanks should almost always beat a caster baring skill or gear." Each class has a purpose in group based encounters. Every class has a form of CC that allows them to get their jobs done. The casters have root, Stealthers have snare, Tanks and Ranged DPS have knock down. Not to mention the mix of disarm, silence, and debuffs specifically designed to give your group time to fulfill their specific roles.
Zerg to an extent can help in certain areas, like claiming Battle Field Objectives in some cases. However Zergs for Keep sieges just provide a nice supply of targets for Siege Defenses. I cannot comment on the later RvR zones but I can say that some of them show that terrain is great equalizer when outnumbered.
Overall the strategies available for WAR have been diverse. I have been impressed with what a group with good communication can do and what a unorganized zerg cannot do.
My reply to the OP is get higher level and then come back to me and discuss it again.
Some examples of what classes get.
Chosen
Bane Shield - very powerful damage shield that lasts 10 seconds.
Blast Wave - Short term buff that pumps up spell resist and if you resist a spell it silences the caster.
Dizzying Blow - snare
Downfall - a 4 second knock down ability
Guard - You take half the dmg instead of your defensive target.
Hold the Line - Dodge/Disrupt buff for you and all allies behind you.
Juggernaut - Snare/Root/Stun/Disarm remover
Oppression - block/parry reactionary that slows down cast times for person hit by it.
Petrify - AE root.
Quake - knockdown
Repel - knockback ability
Taunt - interrupts current building ability plus the 30% dmg bonus
Touch of Palsy - ability that makes someone take dmg if they move
Withering Blade - AP sap ability
I didn't even include the curses or their tactics or morale or any of their normal attacks or dots. These classes are every bit as complex as classes in WoW if not moreso. They just don't get all of their abilities in the first handful of levels like in most games. They constantly get new abilities every level through the whole game.
Sorceress - won't post just typical nukes or AE or generic buffs/debuffs, just the more timer based abilities.
Absorb Vitality - life siphon.
Cataclysmic Darkness - dmg+snare
Detaunt - 50% dmg reduction ability
Grip of Fear - AE root
Stricken Limbs - 5 second disarm
Stricken Voices - 5 second AE silence
Crippling Terror - Silence+Disarm morale ability
Focused Mind - silence/disarm/root/snare removal morale ability
Misdirection - Morale ability that reflects magic.
Paralyzing Nightmares - Dmg+root morale ability
Scintillating Energy - stun+dmg morale ability
Siphon Power - 200 AP siphon morale ability
Soul Stealer - AP drain morale ability
Unleash the Winds - AE knock away morale ability
Wind-Woven Shell - 20% group dmg reduction morale ability.
Even the most basic of nuking classes gets 6 timer based utility spells that need to be used in very specific situations and a load of morale abilities that do it. Again I didn't list all the little resistance buffs or abilities that debuff while doing dmg etc. This is not a use one ability over and over type of game at all. Players who understand what the other classes can do and time their abilities better will have a big advantage.
All I'm seeing is damage, DOT, buff and debuff. You can get any of these combat features in a free to play like MapleStory
I want to see charge, distract, flare, fear, mind control and so on.
WAR combat features are vintage 1997 combat features. WAR combat features existed in the original EQ.
OP this isnt wow...many of the people have said it and just get over it....ender4 or whoever the poster above you gave supreme examples of roots/snares and you simply ignore them because they also offer debuffs. im sorry your shaman wont have a grounding totem and your rune priest wont have hammer of justice or your archmage won't be able to MC people off cliffs and your zealot wont be able to AE psychic scream...its not WOW
All I'm seeing is damage, DOT, buff and debuff. You can get any of these combat features in a free to play like MapleStory
I want to see charge, distract, flare, fear, mind control and so on.
WAR combat features are vintage 1997 combat features. WAR combat features existed in the original EQ.
Go play WoW if you want those.
WAR isn't for you so please leave.
All I'm seeing is damage, DOT, buff and debuff. You can get any of these combat features in a free to play like MapleStory
I want to see charge, distract, flare, fear, mind control and so on.
WAR combat features are vintage 1997 combat features. WAR combat features existed in the original EQ.
All Tanks have abilities that not only make you do less damage to someone they are guarding but also increase their damage until you man up and focus on them.
Marauders have an attack which will pull your target to you in addition they also have a charge ability.
Fear is in Warhammer but it functions as Debuff.
Flare isn't bad but nothing really like it is in the Warhammer lore.
All I'm seeing is damage, DOT, buff and debuff. You can get any of these combat features in a free to play like MapleStory
I want to see charge, distract, flare, fear, mind control and so on.
WAR combat features are vintage 1997 combat features. WAR combat features existed in the original EQ.
Wow man, you post that under a guy with a pretty long list on just 2 classes of CC. Then you list charge, distract, flare, and mind control as crowd control... It's beyond laughable. This is seriously the worst troll I've seen in a long time. Charge, buggy as it is doesn't do anything anything than get you on a melee class. Ranged classes will put you into combat long before you can get it off. Distract...seriously...come on if you are lucky your opponent turns around for a split second. Barely even worth mentioning as CC. Flare... It's not even CC. Mind Control, good luck getting that off in pvp. Even if you do, everyone packs a pvp trinket and enjoy the sad returns on that charm the second attempt.
Like it's been said, it isn't wow 2. But I've biten at the bait, so I suppose you've done your job.
warhammer has way more abilities than wow by far. Way way way more.
-guild abilities
-mastery abilities
- class abilities
-reknown abilities
- Tatic Abilities
wow only has classs abilities
Then 1 more
-Tome of knowledge abilities
Contrary to popular belief more is not always better. In fact its often worse.
The difference between what is a medicine and what is a poison is simply a matter of dosage.
just becuase it is different does not mean it is less.
I for one hate WoW combat, and I can't get enough of WAR.
if you want WoW combat then play WoW, and for the rest of us there is WAR.
All about zerging, eh? Looks like someone doesn't understand basic tactics.
When I was doing open RvR with my swordmaster, I ended up in a warband of 10 people. 3 other swordmasters, 4 shadow warriors, and 2 archmages. Someone said, "Swordmasters up front, archmages right behind, shadow warriors to the rear and sides." We grouped up. We were running around when we sighted at least 15 destruction players coming towards us. The mages and shadow warriors opened fire at range as we stopped. The Destruction players zerged us...
And hit the wall of swordmasters, the mages started healing the swordmasters as the shadow warriors kicked it into close range combat. A few minutes later, 15 dead Destruction to 1 dead shadow warrior.
The Destruction players couldn't get to our healers with melee attacks because of the collision mechanics of WAR (something WoW is missing). This enables tanks to do their job in PvP, eat damage. The healers kept us up as we kept them alive... and the DPS classes dropped our foes (with some damage provided by the tanks).
You can't zerg against a well organized group when you have collision mechanics because you can't get enough damage on their healers to break the line. I suggest you buy this book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War You can find it at almost any bookstore. Learn to use tactics and strategy... and you will be a PvP machine against the zerg.
WOWs fear no way, WOWs stun no ty, WOWs pvp in general can go far far away from this game. That my friend is not what people are buying this game for.
I'm honestly surprised how people like you can expect a PUG to be pulling off all these amazing strats in a game they've been playing for 1-2 days. Did you try to organize a group? Did you try to orgamize all the tanks into forming a wall? Did you try to get your group to do various strategies? If not, then you can just stfu right now. I was able to organize a group. I was able to get them to use collision detection effectively. I was able to organize flanks to pick off all the squishy casters from behind. What was amazing was that even the PUGs listened sometimes. Sounds like you're expecting them to just jump into this game and be expert strategists without any form of leadership. That's just not going to happen.
CC and PVP never works that well.
Constant fear spamming, stunlocking and all those other things in WoW did not make for skilful gameplay.
WAR is much more about positioning, timing attacks, maintaining momentum and capturing initiative.
Bit like actual warfare as it happens.