It's not going to satisfy those desperately waiting for WAR, but as most of us already know, WAR is going to dissapoint them anyway.
LOL. you wish
WAR is already being played in the Beta, and has dissapointed none
And FYI, it won best online game at Leipzig at the Games Convention.... beat the crap outta WoW and its WotLK expansion.
So yah, back to WoW nub
Ok, as one poster already stated, all of this talk about Warhammer has absolutely nothing to do with the thread at hand; a new system in World of Warcraft. With that being said, while we are on the subject, of Warhammer, I want you fanbois and girls of WAR to explain something that in the midst of all the ranting, you have yet to actually explain this properly. What is this big "depth" and "meaning" in WAR? Now, let me make myself clear on this point, I am not on either side on this subject of which is the better game. I think they both are lacking much to be a game worth spending the countless hours and dollars we gamers spend playing them. I believe we deserve more than they offer us. I do, however think that they both have characteristics of a fun game and neither one just trumps the other in all categories.
I played in Preview Weekend, I will be in Open Beta. I mostly pvp-ed and did PQ's, because I found those to be the most fun. I played both sides to get a feel for the differences. And I do not see this "pride" that the game brings to a server, or how getting the loot doesn't matter, only that the server is victorious. All I saw in scenarios were a lot of people running around, trying to kill each other, testing out their spells and attacks. In some cases, there was some strategy and those teams won, but in WoW, in some cases (usually in Horde teams) there is strategy, and those teams win. There was no exceptional teamwork, just a bunch of people running around, pushing buttons. The thing is that if you are honest with yourself, you realize that the same people that play WoW are going to be the same people that play WAR, so of course you are going to have the same actions occurring. The game does not change that. Now maybe fighting at a city is VERY different from scenarios in this sense, but I highly doubt it.
PQ's...I saw random people, running around trying to kill the stuff they were supposed to kill. It was pretty fun, but they weren't doing it for realm pride, they were doing it in the hopes that once the mini-boss dropped, they would get something out of the chest. And I would think that the majority of them kept doing it over and over again, once again, not for pride of the realm, but because they wanted to fill up the green bar on their screen so that they could go get the rewards in that particular area.
No one being AFK because they are so proud of their server that they won't take advantage of the system? Are you serious? For real? So you really are delusional enough to believe that the same people that play WoW and exploit PvP there grew up overnight because WAR came out and now their not going to do it anymore? Well I'll just help you out, you are wrong. I saw people AFK for whole scenarios (witnessed by me seeing them still in the starting area, standing in the same spot as they were when I died last and entered the scenario in the first place).
And people are dissatisfied. That was just a silly statement. People in general, love to complain about something and when they can't, often create something of their imagination to complain about, so there are always people that will be dissatisfied. But in this game, there are definitely things to be dissatisfied about. In WoW, there are definitely things for people to be dissatisfied about. Neither game is even close to perfect.
But to the point of the thread, whether or not achievements become a huge thing, or WAR does it better, this is a step in the right direction for the ever skating Blizzard. I am glad WAR is coming out because Blizzard sees the fire under its butt now, where no other MMO to date has been able to do that. I, being a 4 year player of WoW, am tired of lame expansions and updates to the game that do nothing to really change the game or make it truly worth my time or money. That is why I play other games besides WoW. The problem is that WoW has the population, and as long as Blizzard can make commercials about their GNP, then things will stay the same, because it works for them. I pray that WAR takes, permanently, at the very least, 1/4 of WoW's population, because maybe, just maybe, that will hurt their wallets enough to make them realize that they have to stop treating me as number 1,304,888 and you like 2,984,786 and so on and so on. They need to start appreciating their subscribers and that is obviously not going to happen until most of us leave. Some of the changes they are making with this new expansion are good ones and I am glad they are making them for those of you that still play the game faithfully, but they still have much much more work to do.
Currently Playing: Aion Trying Out: Retired: The Chronicles of Spellborn, EvE, LotRo, WoW, VG, AoC, CoX, RO Waiting on: Blade & Soul, Black Prophecy, Global Agenda, The Agency, SW:ToR, T.E.R.A. Working On: The 5th Dimension (coming soon)
Just for the poster above - Teamfortress aka Vicksburg aka Memoir (aka Acrono in WoW) wanted to get a troll and flame thread. From the title to the actual post this purpose was clear so do not just blame the War fanbois, also blame the WoW fanboys.
This discussion is silly since WoW has PvE in spades and beat WAR hands down on it. WAR beats WoW's PvP in beta. This means that we as consumers are complete winners since we can get the best of both worlds or choose the variant that suits us the best. Everyone wins.
Just for the poster above - Teamfortress aka Vicksburg aka Memoir wanted to get a troll and flame thread. From the title to the actual post this purpose was clear so do not just blame the War fanbois, also blame the WoW fanboys. This discussion is silly since WoW has PvE in spades and beat WAR hands down on it. WAR beats WoW's PvP in beta. This means that we as consumers are complete winners since we can get the best of both worlds or choose the variant that suits us the best. Everyone wins.
The funny thing is that Teamfortress/Vicksburg/Memoir stated he pre-ordered WAR lmao. Why he keeps making alts I don't understand.
All these PvP addition as a response to WAR is funny tho. They could have done this years ago, adding a meaningful PvP endgame, world PvP etc. Then a PvP game comes out and they are like ZOMG! We're gonna lose our PvPers let's add in 1 BG, 1 Arena, 1 PvP zone.... hmm what else do we need ... let's see what the competition has.
TOK? --> Achievement. Capturable Cities --> Capitol City Achievement. World RvR --> Lake Wintergrasp. LOL. It's great. Competition is always good. Anti-monopolies ftw. They probably have a whole new team coming up with PvP content now. haha. I can imagine this was the same crap that happend with TOA for DAOC.
After 4 years of having just 4 BGs and arenas they suddenly add all this stuff. LMFAO!
yep indeed Team Fortress is Memoir aka hebeventijd aka vicksburg, aka zorndorf . His fanboism is so unique you can spot him from miles away . He posted the same thread on the WAR forums which got deleted while I was reading half way through it, probably because of trolling. I dont know if the moderators are banning people for trolling and that is the reason why he has to make new accounts all the time.
Amazing is the fact that he pumps out 50 posts within 2,5 days, about every 20-30 min in 8 hours, So either this guy has no life at all or he wipes floors at blizzards HQ, posting here while he is on his job.
yep indeed Team Fortress is Memoir aka hebeventijd aka vicksburg, aka zorndorf . His fanboism is so unique you can spot him from miles away . He posted the same thread on the WAR forums which got deleted while I was reading half way through it, probably because of trolling. I dont know if the moderators are banning people for trolling and that is the reason why he has to make new accounts all the time. Amazing is the fact that he pumps out 50 posts within 2,5 days, about every 20-30 min in 8 hours, So either this guy has no life at all or he wipes floors at blizzards HQ, posting here while he is on his job. A real disgrace for the wow community.
Seriously , i wish they could ban people by mac adress or some shit. This is getting ridiculous.
This sounds like complete desperation from Blizzard to win back the large slice of subs that WAR will be eating up on the 18th. It seems so pointless to kill the leader, the one ruler of an entire faction, the king, the main man, your races hope and all just so you can get a silly title in an unorginal book. In WAR this is what its all about taking that one guy down and knowing you've hurt your enemys pride and in the process you have helped your cause, you have done your part for your realm and unlocked lots of cool things you and your comrades can enjoy... not to mention the chance of some tasty loot for your hard work, which can only be obtained by eliminating your enemy king.
WoW is sticking a bit of duck tape here and there in the hope that they can turn the game into something it was never ment to be.
Originally posted by Markkram WoW is sticking a bit of duck tape here and there in the hope that they can turn the game into something it was never ment to be. WAR was built for this !
Sticking tape over what exactly? They have the most successful MMO on the market for the last few years, what does Mythic have but a yet unproven game?
It is true that WoW was never built as a PvP game and that content has been bolted on over the years, but Blizzard have so far done a good job in keeping the majority of it's audience happy. Now of course in a reaction to some new games coming to the market and offering something more specific that it doesn't have they are doing what every good business does and reacting to those offerings and creating some content of their own, it just makes good business sense.
Moreover, what Blizz is doing is offering it's players more and more choice in how they play and proceeed through the game. When it comes to PvP, on the release of WOTLK i will have a choice of PvP from;
1 - Open PvP for fun and achievements 2 - Battlegrounds for honour, achievements and rewards 3 - Arena's for achievements, ranking and rewards 4 - Open destructable siege PvP to get Spirit shards for achievements, fun and rewards
....and of course when all of that is said and done i can just go back to doing all of the PvE stuff as well. The overall point is that i have the choice to do or not do all of these things depending on my mood and playing style and choice means a lot.
As for the achievements themselves, they are again just another addition to the game to add some more fun for the players and maybe even some pride in doing things that have had no meaning in the past. Why shouldn't you be proud of repelling/killing 25 of your enemy when they raid your city?
Again, it all comes down to the individual player and as i have said before, if you don't like WoW for whatever reason now you are probably not going to be impressed with anything they add are you?
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
the pvp is still a bit wierd though....they keep trying to reinvent their the pvp system.
first they had hk dk(no real system though)--->diminishing ranks--->removed ranks all together and put in honor points--->added arena system----pvp in outland for coins or medals or something--->now whatever it is with WotLK.
i wish they had a more stable system kinda like their old rank system without the diminishing part though.
the pvp is still a bit wierd though....they keep trying to reinvent their the pvp system. first they had hk dk(no real system though)--->diminishing ranks--->removed ranks all together and put in honor points--->added arena system----pvp in outland for coins or medals or something--->now whatever it is with WotLK.
i wish they had a more stable system kinda like their old rank system without the diminishing part though.
Ya the ranking system was the only one i felt welled up pride in my accomplishments and it was much harder to do then the current system's spending spree method. I have heard rumors they may be bringing it back in some way but i won't hold my breath.
On a side note though, looking at the sheer amount of BG related achievements and other pvp achievements, i am actually looking forward to pvping again i love collecting stuff it makes me warm inside .
Hype is my nemesis. i will fight it til the day i die whether i take it down or it takes me down. So depressing, Yes?
the pvp is still a bit wierd though....they keep trying to reinvent their the pvp system. first they had hk dk(no real system though)--->diminishing ranks--->removed ranks all together and put in honor points--->added arena system----pvp in outland for coins or medals or something--->now whatever it is with WotLK.
i wish they had a more stable system kinda like their old rank system without the diminishing part though.
Ya the ranking system was the only one i felt welled up pride in my accomplishments and it was much harder to do then the current system's spending spree method. I have heard rumors they may be bringing it back in some way but i won't hold my breath.
On a side note though, looking at the sheer amount of BG related achievements and other pvp achievements, i am actually looking forward to pvping again i love collecting stuff it makes me warm inside .
They changed the old rank system due to player feedback and the fact that you had to play many hours a day for a couple of months to obtain rank 14 which most players did not like.
Most of the players who like the item centric PvP model WoW provides will always like new gear, plus they make it ez for people to get welfare epix now just grind out their 4 BGs endlessly and play arena 1-2 times a week... get ur epix and get ready to do it all again in the same BGs/Arenas once they put in new stuff. LMAO.
They changed the old rank system due to player feedback and the fact that you had to play many hours a day for a couple of months to obtain rank 14 which most players did not like. Most of the players who like the item centric PvP model WoW provides will always like new gear, plus they make it ez for people to get welfare epix now just grind out their 4 BGs endlessly and play arena 1-2 times a week... get ur epix and get ready to do it all again in the same BGs/Arenas once they put in new stuff. LMAO.
I have a distinct feeling you are trying to make it out to be somehow bad.
Come to think of it, I don't have any problem with the "same" BGs, but it would be nice if there was more graphic models for those BGs. Make it random like arenas, where you never realy know where you gona end up, or make it so that depending on who is wining more, the other side buildings look more broken or something like that...
I have a distinct feeling you are trying to make it out to be somehow bad. Come to think of it, I don't have any problem with the "same" BGs, but it would be nice if there was more graphic models for those BGs. Make it random like arenas, where you never realy know where you gona end up, or make it so that depending on who is wining more, the other side buildings look more broken or something like that...
Yeah randomising it would rock, cept they have to review the reward system to incorporate it. Yes, I don't like the fact that there are only 4 of them and that you have to repeat them endlessly. I don't know if a look of a building is going to make me want to play the same BGs over again tho.
I guess some people want to play them over countless times but to me it got boring just like if you had to run MC in TBC still for your next set of gear and nothing in it was changed.
Just getting tier upgrades and then running the same stuff over and over is not for everyone I guess. I know a friend who got physically sick (nausea) when he entered AV after he hit rank 14 lmao.
Ok, as one poster already stated, all of this talk about Warhammer has absolutely nothing to do with the thread at hand; a new system in World of Warcraft. With that being said, while we are on the subject, of Warhammer, I want you fanbois and girls of WAR to explain something that in the midst of all the ranting, you have yet to actually explain this properly. What is this big "depth" and "meaning" in WAR? Now, let me make myself clear on this point, I am not on either side on this subject of which is the better game. I think they both are lacking much to be a game worth spending the countless hours and dollars we gamers spend playing them. I believe we deserve more than they offer us. I do, however think that they both have characteristics of a fun game and neither one just trumps the other in all categories. I played in Preview Weekend, I will be in Open Beta. I mostly pvp-ed and did PQ's, because I found those to be the most fun. I played both sides to get a feel for the differences. And I do not see this "pride" that the game brings to a server, or how getting the loot doesn't matter, only that the server is victorious. All I saw in scenarios were a lot of people running around, trying to kill each other, testing out their spells and attacks. In some cases, there was some strategy and those teams won, but in WoW, in some cases (usually in Horde teams) there is strategy, and those teams win. There was no exceptional teamwork, just a bunch of people running around, pushing buttons. The thing is that if you are honest with yourself, you realize that the same people that play WoW are going to be the same people that play WAR, so of course you are going to have the same actions occurring. The game does not change that. Now maybe fighting at a city is VERY different from scenarios in this sense, but I highly doubt it. PQ's...I saw random people, running around trying to kill the stuff they were supposed to kill. It was pretty fun, but they weren't doing it for realm pride, they were doing it in the hopes that once the mini-boss dropped, they would get something out of the chest. And I would think that the majority of them kept doing it over and over again, once again, not for pride of the realm, but because they wanted to fill up the green bar on their screen so that they could go get the rewards in that particular area. No one being AFK because they are so proud of their server that they won't take advantage of the system? Are you serious? For real? So you really are delusional enough to believe that the same people that play WoW and exploit PvP there grew up overnight because WAR came out and now their not going to do it anymore? Well I'll just help you out, you are wrong. I saw people AFK for whole scenarios (witnessed by me seeing them still in the starting area, standing in the same spot as they were when I died last and entered the scenario in the first place). And people are dissatisfied. That was just a silly statement. People in general, love to complain about something and when they can't, often create something of their imagination to complain about, so there are always people that will be dissatisfied. But in this game, there are definitely things to be dissatisfied about. In WoW, there are definitely things for people to be dissatisfied about. Neither game is even close to perfect. But to the point of the thread, whether or not achievements become a huge thing, or WAR does it better, this is a step in the right direction for the ever skating Blizzard. I am glad WAR is coming out because Blizzard sees the fire under its butt now, where no other MMO to date has been able to do that. I, being a 4 year player of WoW, am tired of lame expansions and updates to the game that do nothing to really change the game or make it truly worth my time or money. That is why I play other games besides WoW. The problem is that WoW has the population, and as long as Blizzard can make commercials about their GNP, then things will stay the same, because it works for them. I pray that WAR takes, permanently, at the very least, 1/4 of WoW's population, because maybe, just maybe, that will hurt their wallets enough to make them realize that they have to stop treating me as number 1,304,888 and you like 2,984,786 and so on and so on. They need to start appreciating their subscribers and that is obviously not going to happen until most of us leave. Some of the changes they are making with this new expansion are good ones and I am glad they are making them for those of you that still play the game faithfully, but they still have much much more work to do.
I have to say the above is one of the best replies I have seen in a thread for a very long time.
yep indeed Team Fortress is Memoir aka hebeventijd aka vicksburg, aka zorndorf . His fanboism is so unique you can spot him from miles away . He posted the same thread on the WAR forums which got deleted while I was reading half way through it, probably because of trolling. I dont know if the moderators are banning people for trolling and that is the reason why he has to make new accounts all the time. Amazing is the fact that he pumps out 50 posts within 2,5 days, about every 20-30 min in 8 hours, So either this guy has no life at all or he wipes floors at blizzards HQ, posting here while he is on his job. A real disgrace for the wow community.
These kind of personal attacks showed I touched something. The fact that Blizz encourages to raid capitols and cities in old Wow is BIG news, certainly for the WAR community. If they can't handle that well, what are they doing here than?
When someone reaches out to unfounded statements and personal attacks (banned ?!?!?) he's run out of decent arguments. That's clear.
Back on topics: the achievement systems in world PvP shows Blizz is willing to tackle open world PvP and is reactivating its old content.
But there is more to achievements...look at the map of Northrend ....
Now have a look at the lay-out of those zones in WotLK: you'll see half of these zones are end-zones.
Meaning half of Northrend would be meaningless if they raised the level cap yet again in the next expansion. (post WotLK).
Conclusion: Blizz is getting away from the levels/exp in their game and achievements is but the first step.
Have a nice day (even the haters who lack arguments against the orginal Post).
Again, they have been very clever in finding a way to make existing content more relevant to the community as a whole rather than having to spend hundreds of man hours putting in new content that will only appeal to a few. This really doesn't change anything as it has always been possible to do these raids if people really wanted to, but with the simple addition of an 'achievement' list it actually gives people something to aim for. Nice one Blizz.
Raid once, get your achievement.
Few weeks later, "LF raid on Org! I need to get my achievements!"
No response.
No response.
"LFM Kara"
"OH I'LL GO! LET ME IN! I WANNA GO!"
Why wouldn't people do it again to get 20 more achievement points? And what the hell do we get with achievement points? I've yet to see this.
Why should they when there's hundreds of other achiements that don't require as much effort? I don't know what you get with achievement points either, ask the fanboy.
Well that's what I was thinking. Seems like killing bosses should be more epic. Hey all I know is this gives me a spark of hope as a wow pvper that blizz is trying to diversify pvp. It's probably only the beginning. Thanks mythic.
That's the attitude the OP should take on. WAR is helping you in your game by making Blizzard work harder. What's that? COMPETITION MAKES BETTER PRODUCTS? Why can't WoW fanboys realize this, instead of saying "WAR sucks lol don't play it lol it'll die lol just play WoW it's better lol".
LOL i posted something about this before how people shouldnt be bashing WoW or WAR but bitching to both Mythic and Blizzard to make a damn good game other wise this whole mess of people are going over here and the other way around.
Personally I'll be playing WAR but I think the hate in this thread is stupid.
So WoW is adding more PVP content, in an innovative way that allows them to utilize existing content instead of developing it from scratch. And MAYBE they did it because WAR is coming out (really, who can tell). So what's the problem, that's what you call capitalism in action and we the consumers are the ones to benefit. One of the most vocal critiques of Blizz is that they take forever to do anything, so if WAR's release pushed them to do then I think that's a great thing.
I prefer WAR over WoW, but if WoW players are benefitting from Mythic and Blizz trying to beat each other out well then more power to the WoW playerbase.
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW. -BarCrow
These kind of personal attacks showed I touched something. The fact that Blizz encourages to raid capitols and cities in old Wow is BIG news, certainly for the WAR community. If they can't handle that well, what are they doing here than?
Eh, we're probably just bored.
When it comes to the hardcore fans, we're looking to insult people for what some people feel are stolen ideas - there's no lying about that one. Those being people like Minutemaid, people I don't even like to read because it gives the idea that every person looking forward to WAR is a fascist about all MMOs that challenge its launch.
Then there are open minded people, swell folks in their own rights, who could care less about WoW or what WoW idiots think, but leave a special pedestal for WoW's open minded people. Whoever says "Thanks Mythic, for encouraging Blizzard to make something special for a while until we conquer it and ask for more, like most games in the MMO district."
As I've played WoW for four years now, I really can't stand it anymore. To some part, the game is just old for me. I'm looking for something new with what I deem better features. Less roosterblocking people who don't put their heart and soul into the game (raiding). WAR is extremely casual compared to WoW. Finding a group is hard in WAR, because most often chance is you're going to be in one already for something. In my opinion the PvE is great because it accentuates movement and action. Sure, you go here and kill this several times, but you aren't going to be kill thirty to get five things. Ever. It's not a grind, despite what Minutemaid mistakenly described end game as.
WoW's acheivement system can't be any better than WAR's. You get points instead of XP, and more fluff like titles. If you ocassionally get items and quests from acheivement points, it's pretty much a Tome of Knowledge. I'm not even arguing or opening it to arguement. It's something to bring a tear to completionists' eyes because they just finished grinding reputation and now I have to dick around with a lot of what I already did or what others are just going to want to do once. Also, it's just something to bring about special to new players.
I'm not saying this in a methodically angered tone, but it does make for a good cloak. "Why play a game that might be glitchy and not for you, new person to the MMO franchise, while you can play this game while it is all safe and sound and has all the same features now." WoW is an indominable beast and I respect that. Good for Blizz. More money and rep to an already well-to-do company.
But to keep with my Warhammer buddies, I'm gonna end on humor.
In concept, the Tome of Knowledge and the RvR wasn't the only thing Blizzard stole from the I.P.
--------------------- Sniper is another term for unorthodox surgeon.
Come on. You WAR guys are blind if you cant see this as being fun as hell. Picture this. Your guild that dominates the server gets together with a few others and head out. In Ironforge there are n00bs playing. people in the Auctionhouse. Others just relaxing having fun in the area in front of the bank. BAM!! In comes the ultra guild and kills them all. Kill the auction house and then sets up camp killing everything and everyone. WE CAN LOCK A SERVER OUT OF A CAPITAL CITY FOR DAYS!! This would be awesome. You could make it so people wont want to even log on anymore because what is the point? My godly guild will own you! Tell me that doesnt sound fun as hell. I hear people ask.. What is the point? I will tell you. The more you OWN the other side the more of them will leave hence making your side bigger and better. Eventually hopefully people will be so saddened and hopeless the horde will dominate the server with a 70% population advantage. Then we win!
That my friends is a REAL pvp. Making people quit the game is like killing them. Finally WoW is catering the game for the elite and rewarding us for locking down cities WoW is becoming the game I always wanted it to be.
That's some daydream your having there. Obviously you've never raided a city in WOW before. Kill one guard and a guard will spawn for each enemy in the city. This is what killed TM/SS battles not the honor system.
Raiding Cities in wow for benefit gee that sure sounds alot like some other MMO that fanbois have been pushing lately. I guess it is far to thank rthem for moving Blizz in the right direction but Lake winter has been in dev a long time so some pvp changes would have happened even without the hype machine known as the WAR fanbois. Enough flaming tho seriously this is very good for WOW pretty much all the old content is being brought back into the fold with this new achievement system and i couldn't be happier
Its good Blizzard take into acount other games if it makes it batter. It will also provide WoW fans with a copy of what others games can deliver, IN A GOOD WAY.
I'm no fan of same old content being braught back but it might be good to replay a better old content.
I'll wait for WotLK and then give it a try, but only after its Hype goes down.
WoW "trained" its players to get epixx for playing in BG and arena. Unless you get some epics on par with arena ones(which you won't since achievement system will only give you some titles/pets), nobody will care about them. And even if they will, you kill them once and that's it. I'm sure this won't revive the world PvP.
Originally posted by Thenarius WoW "trained" its players to get epixx for playing in BG and arena. Unless you get some epics on par with arena ones(which you won't since achievement system will only give you some titles/pets), nobody will care about them. And even if they will, you kill them once and that's it. I'm sure this won't revive the world PvP.
What a load of crap, we are human beings playing a game not bloody lab rats running a maze (although the anti-wow crowd would have you believe otherwise)!
I do things all the time in the game for no reward, either to help others out or just because i enjoy it, all the acheivements list will do is give some people a prod in the direction of some things they may never have tried before. Most will treat this list for what it is, a novelty addition to the game which adds more options to your gameplay and at the end of the day if people don't want to do them, they don't have to, it is all optional at the end of the day.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
WoW "trained" its players to get epixx for playing in BG and arena. Unless you get some epics on par with arena ones(which you won't since achievement system will only give you some titles/pets), nobody will care about them. And even if they will, you kill them once and that's it. I'm sure this won't revive the world PvP.
What a load of crap, we are human beings playing a game not bloody lab rats running a maze (although the anti-wow crowd would have you believe otherwise)!
I do things all the time in the game for no reward, either to help others out or just because i enjoy it, all the acheivements list will do is give some people a prod in the direction of some things they may never have tried before. Most will treat this list for what it is, a novelty addition to the game which adds more options to your gameplay and at the end of the day if people don't want to do them, they don't have to, it is all optional at the end of the day.
So correct: one of the most fun months I had in Wow was having a Battleground title. Exalted with the 3 BG's. To become just that I had to play the hard way.
Scoring 1200 flag- wins in WSG is no easy feat. And then you still have AB (AV is easier).
I made a goal out of this, it didn't bring ANY epics, just a rare title (certainly these days) and it set me on a scheme to realize it.
I know from this feeling that the achievements of WotLK could be a success because they are everywhere and everyone makes out its own goals.
The fact that with the new system you can "climb" the ladder with intermediate steps is much better also. For instance: you can get an achievement by killing hordes/alliance in capitols, then you could step up with the title of "Defender of your capitol", then try to to kill Thrall/Proudmoore. The next step would be the killing of ALL 4 big chiefs of the other faction, each with attacking a new capitol.
This "building-up" feature is as exciting as a progress through dungeons or building up you character, but in a complete different way.
It is challeging and you can adept it to your playing style. - in steps - and according to the time you have. PVE, PVP, crafting etc...
We haven't seen the last thing yet out of this. I am sure. On last count 650 achievements and they are adding...
They announced the seiges and holding territory over a year ago when WAR and AoC announced the same things. (And of course AoC never even delivered.) So .. on one hand I think it is a response to them, (just like many features people have wanted like guild banks were not added until AFTER LOTRO had them) but it's not all of a sudden. I guess some people forgot all these press releases over a year ago.
However, the timing of the press release might be something. We've seen this same tactic from Microsoft and many other market leaders. Keep putting out the press releases saying "hey we're going to have this or that just wait".
Of course that's not the same as saying they are "worried" or "afraid", they are just trying to keep on top.
Though I'd be surprised if the new tradeskills are in the patch, they didn't put jewelcrafting in the 2.0 patch last time.
It's probably partially reactionary. Hey if I were them I would do that too. The extensive additions are anyways otherwise they would just put the professions in the new expac to further promote people buying it. (aka Jewelcrafting in TBC).
So what do you get for raiding a city and killing the final lord? Anything good? It's gonna require a ton of preperation and a whole lotta people right? So it must be some uber reward. Otherwise you're not gonna pull people away from their BGs/Arenas.
Have they done it on the test servers yet? If its such a big thing I'm sure people will wanna raid it and find out the rewards. Epix? PvPLewtzor? XP?
It's probably partially reactionary. Hey if I were them I would do that too. The extensive additions are anyways otherwise they would just put the professions in the new expac to further promote people buying it. (aka Jewelcrafting in TBC). So what do you get for raiding a city and killing the final lord? Anything good? It's gonna require a ton of preperation and a whole lotta people right? So it must be some uber reward. Otherwise you're not gonna pull people away from their BGs/Arenas. Have they done it on the test servers yet? If its such a big thing I'm sure people will wanna raid it and find out the rewards. Epix? PvPLewtzor? XP? Anyways keep me posted
On PvP servers the raiding of capitols, cities and fixed minor points on enemy territory is already being done daily.
Killing the warchief himself is indeed far from a daily and happens only every now and then on a specific server. The important news is NOT that the raids themselves are new... the news is that Blizzards now records these achievements and this is gonna make for a huge change:
Guilds for example are gonna have a GO at these massive raids, because they are being recorded now on the general progress websites.
Just like the armory made it possible to track down the elite arena players and personal progression, the fact these achievements are tracked down in a database will lead to hi competition between guilds and characters to have the ultimate titles and achievements.
It is clear that achievements in this way opens up other paths of progress than just gear and levels. Like an article in Wowinsider showed last month (with the hi number of end "end" zones in WotLK, there is a possiblity the caps won't be raised in future expansions, so "other" ways of progress are being studied).
Comments
LOL. you wish
WAR is already being played in the Beta, and has dissapointed none
And FYI, it won best online game at Leipzig at the Games Convention.... beat the crap outta WoW and its WotLK expansion.
So yah, back to WoW nub
Ok, as one poster already stated, all of this talk about Warhammer has absolutely nothing to do with the thread at hand; a new system in World of Warcraft. With that being said, while we are on the subject, of Warhammer, I want you fanbois and girls of WAR to explain something that in the midst of all the ranting, you have yet to actually explain this properly. What is this big "depth" and "meaning" in WAR? Now, let me make myself clear on this point, I am not on either side on this subject of which is the better game. I think they both are lacking much to be a game worth spending the countless hours and dollars we gamers spend playing them. I believe we deserve more than they offer us. I do, however think that they both have characteristics of a fun game and neither one just trumps the other in all categories.
I played in Preview Weekend, I will be in Open Beta. I mostly pvp-ed and did PQ's, because I found those to be the most fun. I played both sides to get a feel for the differences. And I do not see this "pride" that the game brings to a server, or how getting the loot doesn't matter, only that the server is victorious. All I saw in scenarios were a lot of people running around, trying to kill each other, testing out their spells and attacks. In some cases, there was some strategy and those teams won, but in WoW, in some cases (usually in Horde teams) there is strategy, and those teams win. There was no exceptional teamwork, just a bunch of people running around, pushing buttons. The thing is that if you are honest with yourself, you realize that the same people that play WoW are going to be the same people that play WAR, so of course you are going to have the same actions occurring. The game does not change that. Now maybe fighting at a city is VERY different from scenarios in this sense, but I highly doubt it.
PQ's...I saw random people, running around trying to kill the stuff they were supposed to kill. It was pretty fun, but they weren't doing it for realm pride, they were doing it in the hopes that once the mini-boss dropped, they would get something out of the chest. And I would think that the majority of them kept doing it over and over again, once again, not for pride of the realm, but because they wanted to fill up the green bar on their screen so that they could go get the rewards in that particular area.
No one being AFK because they are so proud of their server that they won't take advantage of the system? Are you serious? For real? So you really are delusional enough to believe that the same people that play WoW and exploit PvP there grew up overnight because WAR came out and now their not going to do it anymore? Well I'll just help you out, you are wrong. I saw people AFK for whole scenarios (witnessed by me seeing them still in the starting area, standing in the same spot as they were when I died last and entered the scenario in the first place).
And people are dissatisfied. That was just a silly statement. People in general, love to complain about something and when they can't, often create something of their imagination to complain about, so there are always people that will be dissatisfied. But in this game, there are definitely things to be dissatisfied about. In WoW, there are definitely things for people to be dissatisfied about. Neither game is even close to perfect.
But to the point of the thread, whether or not achievements become a huge thing, or WAR does it better, this is a step in the right direction for the ever skating Blizzard. I am glad WAR is coming out because Blizzard sees the fire under its butt now, where no other MMO to date has been able to do that. I, being a 4 year player of WoW, am tired of lame expansions and updates to the game that do nothing to really change the game or make it truly worth my time or money. That is why I play other games besides WoW. The problem is that WoW has the population, and as long as Blizzard can make commercials about their GNP, then things will stay the same, because it works for them. I pray that WAR takes, permanently, at the very least, 1/4 of WoW's population, because maybe, just maybe, that will hurt their wallets enough to make them realize that they have to stop treating me as number 1,304,888 and you like 2,984,786 and so on and so on. They need to start appreciating their subscribers and that is obviously not going to happen until most of us leave. Some of the changes they are making with this new expansion are good ones and I am glad they are making them for those of you that still play the game faithfully, but they still have much much more work to do.
Currently Playing: Aion
Trying Out:
Retired: The Chronicles of Spellborn, EvE, LotRo, WoW, VG, AoC, CoX, RO
Waiting on: Blade & Soul, Black Prophecy, Global Agenda, The Agency, SW:ToR, T.E.R.A.
Working On: The 5th Dimension (coming soon)
Just for the poster above - Teamfortress aka Vicksburg aka Memoir (aka Acrono in WoW) wanted to get a troll and flame thread. From the title to the actual post this purpose was clear so do not just blame the War fanbois, also blame the WoW fanboys.
This discussion is silly since WoW has PvE in spades and beat WAR hands down on it. WAR beats WoW's PvP in beta. This means that we as consumers are complete winners since we can get the best of both worlds or choose the variant that suits us the best. Everyone wins.
The funny thing is that Teamfortress/Vicksburg/Memoir stated he pre-ordered WAR lmao. Why he keeps making alts I don't understand.
All these PvP addition as a response to WAR is funny tho. They could have done this years ago, adding a meaningful PvP endgame, world PvP etc. Then a PvP game comes out and they are like ZOMG! We're gonna lose our PvPers let's add in 1 BG, 1 Arena, 1 PvP zone.... hmm what else do we need ... let's see what the competition has.
TOK? --> Achievement. Capturable Cities --> Capitol City Achievement. World RvR --> Lake Wintergrasp. LOL. It's great. Competition is always good. Anti-monopolies ftw. They probably have a whole new team coming up with PvP content now. haha. I can imagine this was the same crap that happend with TOA for DAOC.
After 4 years of having just 4 BGs and arenas they suddenly add all this stuff. LMFAO!
yep indeed Team Fortress is Memoir aka hebeventijd aka vicksburg, aka zorndorf . His fanboism is so unique you can spot him from miles away . He posted the same thread on the WAR forums which got deleted while I was reading half way through it, probably because of trolling. I dont know if the moderators are banning people for trolling and that is the reason why he has to make new accounts all the time.
Amazing is the fact that he pumps out 50 posts within 2,5 days, about every 20-30 min in 8 hours, So either this guy has no life at all or he wipes floors at blizzards HQ, posting here while he is on his job.
A real disgrace for the wow community.
Seriously , i wish they could ban people by mac adress or some shit. This is getting ridiculous.
http://revolutionwar.guildlaunch.com/
This sounds like complete desperation from Blizzard to win back the large slice of subs that WAR will be eating up on the 18th. It seems so pointless to kill the leader, the one ruler of an entire faction, the king, the main man, your races hope and all just so you can get a silly title in an unorginal book. In WAR this is what its all about taking that one guy down and knowing you've hurt your enemys pride and in the process you have helped your cause, you have done your part for your realm and unlocked lots of cool things you and your comrades can enjoy... not to mention the chance of some tasty loot for your hard work, which can only be obtained by eliminating your enemy king.
WoW is sticking a bit of duck tape here and there in the hope that they can turn the game into something it was never ment to be.
WAR was built for this !
Sticking tape over what exactly? They have the most successful MMO on the market for the last few years, what does Mythic have but a yet unproven game?
It is true that WoW was never built as a PvP game and that content has been bolted on over the years, but Blizzard have so far done a good job in keeping the majority of it's audience happy. Now of course in a reaction to some new games coming to the market and offering something more specific that it doesn't have they are doing what every good business does and reacting to those offerings and creating some content of their own, it just makes good business sense.
Moreover, what Blizz is doing is offering it's players more and more choice in how they play and proceeed through the game. When it comes to PvP, on the release of WOTLK i will have a choice of PvP from;
1 - Open PvP for fun and achievements
2 - Battlegrounds for honour, achievements and rewards
3 - Arena's for achievements, ranking and rewards
4 - Open destructable siege PvP to get Spirit shards for achievements, fun and rewards
....and of course when all of that is said and done i can just go back to doing all of the PvE stuff as well. The overall point is that i have the choice to do or not do all of these things depending on my mood and playing style and choice means a lot.
As for the achievements themselves, they are again just another addition to the game to add some more fun for the players and maybe even some pride in doing things that have had no meaning in the past. Why shouldn't you be proud of repelling/killing 25 of your enemy when they raid your city?
Again, it all comes down to the individual player and as i have said before, if you don't like WoW for whatever reason now you are probably not going to be impressed with anything they add are you?
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
the pvp is still a bit wierd though....they keep trying to reinvent their the pvp system.
first they had hk dk(no real system though)--->diminishing ranks--->removed ranks all together and put in honor points--->added arena system----pvp in outland for coins or medals or something--->now whatever it is with WotLK.
i wish they had a more stable system kinda like their old rank system without the diminishing part though.
Ya the ranking system was the only one i felt welled up pride in my accomplishments and it was much harder to do then the current system's spending spree method. I have heard rumors they may be bringing it back in some way but i won't hold my breath.
On a side note though, looking at the sheer amount of BG related achievements and other pvp achievements, i am actually looking forward to pvping again i love collecting stuff it makes me warm inside
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Hype is my nemesis. i will fight it til the day i die whether i take it down or it takes me down. So depressing, Yes?
Ya the ranking system was the only one i felt welled up pride in my accomplishments and it was much harder to do then the current system's spending spree method. I have heard rumors they may be bringing it back in some way but i won't hold my breath.
On a side note though, looking at the sheer amount of BG related achievements and other pvp achievements, i am actually looking forward to pvping again i love collecting stuff it makes me warm inside
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They changed the old rank system due to player feedback and the fact that you had to play many hours a day for a couple of months to obtain rank 14 which most players did not like.
Most of the players who like the item centric PvP model WoW provides will always like new gear, plus they make it ez for people to get welfare epix now just grind out their 4 BGs endlessly and play arena 1-2 times a week... get ur epix and get ready to do it all again in the same BGs/Arenas once they put in new stuff. LMAO.
I have a distinct feeling you are trying to make it out to be somehow bad.
Come to think of it, I don't have any problem with the "same" BGs, but it would be nice if there was more graphic models for those BGs. Make it random like arenas, where you never realy know where you gona end up, or make it so that depending on who is wining more, the other side buildings look more broken or something like that...
Yeah randomising it would rock, cept they have to review the reward system to incorporate it. Yes, I don't like the fact that there are only 4 of them and that you have to repeat them endlessly. I don't know if a look of a building is going to make me want to play the same BGs over again tho.
I guess some people want to play them over countless times but to me it got boring just like if you had to run MC in TBC still for your next set of gear and nothing in it was changed.
Just getting tier upgrades and then running the same stuff over and over is not for everyone I guess. I know a friend who got physically sick (nausea) when he entered AV after he hit rank 14 lmao.
I have to say the above is one of the best replies I have seen in a thread for a very long time.
I salute you.
These kind of personal attacks showed I touched something. The fact that Blizz encourages to raid capitols and cities in old Wow is BIG news, certainly for the WAR community. If they can't handle that well, what are they doing here than?
When someone reaches out to unfounded statements and personal attacks (banned ?!?!?) he's run out of decent arguments. That's clear.
Back on topics: the achievement systems in world PvP shows Blizz is willing to tackle open world PvP and is reactivating its old content.
But there is more to achievements...look at the map of Northrend ....
Now have a look at the lay-out of those zones in WotLK: you'll see half of these zones are end-zones.
Meaning half of Northrend would be meaningless if they raised the level cap yet again in the next expansion. (post WotLK).
Conclusion: Blizz is getting away from the levels/exp in their game and achievements is but the first step.
Have a nice day (even the haters who lack arguments against the orginal Post).
Raid once, get your achievement.
Few weeks later, "LF raid on Org! I need to get my achievements!"
No response.
No response.
"LFM Kara"
"OH I'LL GO! LET ME IN! I WANNA GO!"
Why wouldn't people do it again to get 20 more achievement points? And what the hell do we get with achievement points? I've yet to see this.
Why should they when there's hundreds of other achiements that don't require as much effort? I don't know what you get with achievement points either, ask the fanboy.
Well that's what I was thinking. Seems like killing bosses should be more epic. Hey all I know is this gives me a spark of hope as a wow pvper that blizz is trying to diversify pvp. It's probably only the beginning. Thanks mythic.
That's the attitude the OP should take on. WAR is helping you in your game by making Blizzard work harder. What's that? COMPETITION MAKES BETTER PRODUCTS? Why can't WoW fanboys realize this, instead of saying "WAR sucks lol don't play it lol it'll die lol just play WoW it's better lol".
LOL i posted something about this before how people shouldnt be bashing WoW or WAR but bitching to both Mythic and Blizzard to make a damn good game other wise this whole mess of people are going over here and the other way around.
Personally I'll be playing WAR but I think the hate in this thread is stupid.
So WoW is adding more PVP content, in an innovative way that allows them to utilize existing content instead of developing it from scratch. And MAYBE they did it because WAR is coming out (really, who can tell). So what's the problem, that's what you call capitalism in action and we the consumers are the ones to benefit. One of the most vocal critiques of Blizz is that they take forever to do anything, so if WAR's release pushed them to do then I think that's a great thing.
I prefer WAR over WoW, but if WoW players are benefitting from Mythic and Blizz trying to beat each other out well then more power to the WoW playerbase.
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW.
-BarCrow
Eh, we're probably just bored.
When it comes to the hardcore fans, we're looking to insult people for what some people feel are stolen ideas - there's no lying about that one. Those being people like Minutemaid, people I don't even like to read because it gives the idea that every person looking forward to WAR is a fascist about all MMOs that challenge its launch.
Then there are open minded people, swell folks in their own rights, who could care less about WoW or what WoW idiots think, but leave a special pedestal for WoW's open minded people. Whoever says "Thanks Mythic, for encouraging Blizzard to make something special for a while until we conquer it and ask for more, like most games in the MMO district."
As I've played WoW for four years now, I really can't stand it anymore. To some part, the game is just old for me. I'm looking for something new with what I deem better features. Less roosterblocking people who don't put their heart and soul into the game (raiding). WAR is extremely casual compared to WoW. Finding a group is hard in WAR, because most often chance is you're going to be in one already for something. In my opinion the PvE is great because it accentuates movement and action. Sure, you go here and kill this several times, but you aren't going to be kill thirty to get five things. Ever. It's not a grind, despite what Minutemaid mistakenly described end game as.
WoW's acheivement system can't be any better than WAR's. You get points instead of XP, and more fluff like titles. If you ocassionally get items and quests from acheivement points, it's pretty much a Tome of Knowledge. I'm not even arguing or opening it to arguement. It's something to bring a tear to completionists' eyes because they just finished grinding reputation and now I have to dick around with a lot of what I already did or what others are just going to want to do once. Also, it's just something to bring about special to new players.
I'm not saying this in a methodically angered tone, but it does make for a good cloak. "Why play a game that might be glitchy and not for you, new person to the MMO franchise, while you can play this game while it is all safe and sound and has all the same features now." WoW is an indominable beast and I respect that. Good for Blizz. More money and rep to an already well-to-do company.
But to keep with my Warhammer buddies, I'm gonna end on humor.
In concept, the Tome of Knowledge and the RvR wasn't the only thing Blizzard stole from the I.P.
---------------------
Sniper is another term for unorthodox surgeon.
That's some daydream your having there. Obviously you've never raided a city in WOW before. Kill one guard and a guard will spawn for each enemy in the city. This is what killed TM/SS battles not the honor system.
Its good Blizzard take into acount other games if it makes it batter. It will also provide WoW fans with a copy of what others games can deliver, IN A GOOD WAY.
I'm no fan of same old content being braught back but it might be good to replay a better old content.
I'll wait for WotLK and then give it a try, but only after its Hype goes down.
WoW "trained" its players to get epixx for playing in BG and arena. Unless you get some epics on par with arena ones(which you won't since achievement system will only give you some titles/pets), nobody will care about them. And even if they will, you kill them once and that's it. I'm sure this won't revive the world PvP.
What a load of crap, we are human beings playing a game not bloody lab rats running a maze (although the anti-wow crowd would have you believe otherwise)!
I do things all the time in the game for no reward, either to help others out or just because i enjoy it, all the acheivements list will do is give some people a prod in the direction of some things they may never have tried before. Most will treat this list for what it is, a novelty addition to the game which adds more options to your gameplay and at the end of the day if people don't want to do them, they don't have to, it is all optional at the end of the day.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
What a load of crap, we are human beings playing a game not bloody lab rats running a maze (although the anti-wow crowd would have you believe otherwise)!
I do things all the time in the game for no reward, either to help others out or just because i enjoy it, all the acheivements list will do is give some people a prod in the direction of some things they may never have tried before. Most will treat this list for what it is, a novelty addition to the game which adds more options to your gameplay and at the end of the day if people don't want to do them, they don't have to, it is all optional at the end of the day.
So correct: one of the most fun months I had in Wow was having a Battleground title. Exalted with the 3 BG's. To become just that I had to play the hard way.
Scoring 1200 flag- wins in WSG is no easy feat. And then you still have AB (AV is easier).
I made a goal out of this, it didn't bring ANY epics, just a rare title (certainly these days) and it set me on a scheme to realize it.
I know from this feeling that the achievements of WotLK could be a success because they are everywhere and everyone makes out its own goals.
The fact that with the new system you can "climb" the ladder with intermediate steps is much better also. For instance: you can get an achievement by killing hordes/alliance in capitols, then you could step up with the title of "Defender of your capitol", then try to to kill Thrall/Proudmoore. The next step would be the killing of ALL 4 big chiefs of the other faction, each with attacking a new capitol.
This "building-up" feature is as exciting as a progress through dungeons or building up you character, but in a complete different way.
It is challeging and you can adept it to your playing style. - in steps - and according to the time you have. PVE, PVP, crafting etc...
We haven't seen the last thing yet out of this. I am sure. On last count 650 achievements and they are adding...
They announced the seiges and holding territory over a year ago when WAR and AoC announced the same things. (And of course AoC never even delivered.) So .. on one hand I think it is a response to them, (just like many features people have wanted like guild banks were not added until AFTER LOTRO had them) but it's not all of a sudden. I guess some people forgot all these press releases over a year ago.
However, the timing of the press release might be something. We've seen this same tactic from Microsoft and many other market leaders. Keep putting out the press releases saying "hey we're going to have this or that just wait".
Of course that's not the same as saying they are "worried" or "afraid", they are just trying to keep on top.
Though I'd be surprised if the new tradeskills are in the patch, they didn't put jewelcrafting in the 2.0 patch last time.
It's probably partially reactionary. Hey if I were them I would do that too. The extensive additions are anyways otherwise they would just put the professions in the new expac to further promote people buying it. (aka Jewelcrafting in TBC).
So what do you get for raiding a city and killing the final lord? Anything good? It's gonna require a ton of preperation and a whole lotta people right? So it must be some uber reward. Otherwise you're not gonna pull people away from their BGs/Arenas.
Have they done it on the test servers yet? If its such a big thing I'm sure people will wanna raid it and find out the rewards. Epix? PvPLewtzor? XP?
Anyways keep me posted
On PvP servers the raiding of capitols, cities and fixed minor points on enemy territory is already being done daily.
Killing the warchief himself is indeed far from a daily and happens only every now and then on a specific server. The important news is NOT that the raids themselves are new... the news is that Blizzards now records these achievements and this is gonna make for a huge change:
Guilds for example are gonna have a GO at these massive raids, because they are being recorded now on the general progress websites.
http://www.wowjutsu.com/eu/alakir/
Just like the armory made it possible to track down the elite arena players and personal progression, the fact these achievements are tracked down in a database will lead to hi competition between guilds and characters to have the ultimate titles and achievements.
It is clear that achievements in this way opens up other paths of progress than just gear and levels. Like an article in Wowinsider showed last month (with the hi number of end "end" zones in WotLK, there is a possiblity the caps won't be raised in future expansions, so "other" ways of progress are being studied).