Even though I stopped playing AoC after 2 months, I greatly enjoyed the combat system and thought it was a leap forward. I am glad that Champions is moving in this direction. I feel bad for those who wanted it a different way, but I never spent any time trying to persuade the Devs to go in this direction. I never said I would not play the game if I didn't have it my way. However, I think that Champions was expected to go this direction from the start. This wasn't supposed to be CoH 2, but rather a more next-gen MMO version of games like "Freedom Force", or "Crackdown". At least, that is what I gathered being that it seems to be built more around the Xbox 360 than the PC. Honestly, I thought the Console angle was a bit refreshing, despite the fact I think that the majority of MMOs belong on PCs. When the game was first announced I had been without a gaming computer for a few years and had purchased an XBox 360 for all my gaming. I was glad to finally be able to play an MMO again. Since then I have bought my gaming PC, but I still think that this game fits better with the 360, and with a more console-oriented control scheme.
The MMO Genre is in desperate need of more innovation. Getting away from medieval fantasy was fine for a few years, but we need a major over-haul on gameplay and gameplay mechanics. Unfortunately, this genre is also the only one that has a large number of gamers who dislike change. I have never seen any large complaints about leaving 2D Side-Scrollers behind, or making FPS games more Sandbox and less Linear. Certainly no one complains about how many features have been added to the Major Sports games over the years. I figure right now 50% of the MMOs released are at least decent or playable, and of those 50% that are decent, the Average MMO fan will only find 1 or 2 a year that are worth playing more than a month or two. With more attempts at innovation and unique features we might have to go through a few years where only 25% or less of the MMOs released are decent, but after that, we could very well see a ratio of 50% great, and 25% decent. I'm willing to give up a year or two to get the kinds of MMOs we won't see for nearly a decade at the rate we are going now.
Ok i watched the video interview the OP posted up and as soon as i heard the words "button mashing" i stopped it and deleted any site about Champions online out of my faves.. Button Mashing stuff should stay on consoles, PC's are not designed to be button mashers and the moment a company decides to make a button masher for the PC is the day that company loses a lot of my faith and support.. I've played GW and recently bought CoX, i got bored with GW fairly early as i had reached max level after a week of play (roughly 4 hours a day spent playing), CoX i've only bought recently and it's still fun to me so time will tell. But i have no intention of trying out Champions online now that i've heard the words Button mashing being used as a reference to it by Jack Emmert himself. I agree that the MMO industry has to move forward in order to remain a grandslam pc genre but, making the combat more console friendly isn't the way to do it. CONTENT, ECONOMY, IMMERSION, GAMEPLAY, CRAFTING and DECAY are the key topics that should be focused on. I mean come on, take SOE's Star Wars Galaxies and USE what happened to that in your thoughts, Pre-NGE it had the decay, it had the crafting, it had the economy, it had the immersion and it certainly had the content, SOE removed these factors with the NGE and look what happened.... IT DIED.. and before anyone else disputes this fact hear why it's died... An MMO is only successful as long as it has subscribers to pay the companies bills for that particular game, SWG lost (at my estimate) 80% of it's subscribers within 2-3 months of the NGE changes.. Companies should use this for their gain and benefit, removing or not including CONTENT, ECONOMY, IMMERSION, GAMEPLAY, CRAFTING and DECAY means less subs right from launch no matter what new things you DO add or include, an MMO NEEDS these things to survive, NOT button mashing console style combat and nothing else. The majority of households have a console of some kind now and if people wanted to play a button mashing fighter game they can pick up the console and play as long as they want, why bother to turn a PC into a console.. PC's are more powerful and can accomplish much more than any console will ever be able to.. USE THIS..
Ok i watched the video interview the OP posted up and as soon as i heard the words "button mashing" i stopped it and deleted any site about Champions online out of my faves.. Button Mashing stuff should stay on consoles, PC's are not designed to be button mashers and the moment a company decides to make a button masher for the PC is the day that company loses a lot of my faith and support.. I've played GW and recently bought CoX, i got bored with GW fairly early as i had reached max level after a week of play (roughly 4 hours a day spent playing), CoX i've only bought recently and it's still fun to me so time will tell. But i have no intention of trying out Champions online now that i've heard the words Button mashing being used as a reference to it by Jack Emmert himself. I agree that the MMO industry has to move forward in order to remain a grandslam pc genre but, making the combat more console friendly isn't the way to do it. CONTENT, ECONOMY, IMMERSION, GAMEPLAY, CRAFTING and DECAY are the key topics that should be focused on. I mean come on, take SOE's Star Wars Galaxies and USE what happened to that in your thoughts, Pre-NGE it had the decay, it had the crafting, it had the economy, it had the immersion and it certainly had the content, SOE removed these factors with the NGE and look what happened.... IT DIED.. and before anyone else disputes this fact hear why it's died... An MMO is only successful as long as it has subscribers to pay the companies bills for that particular game, SWG lost (at my estimate) 80% of it's subscribers within 2-3 months of the NGE changes.. Companies should use this for their gain and benefit, removing or not including CONTENT, ECONOMY, IMMERSION, GAMEPLAY, CRAFTING and DECAY means less subs right from launch no matter what new things you DO add or include, an MMO NEEDS these things to survive, NOT button mashing console style combat and nothing else. The majority of households have a console of some kind now and if people wanted to play a button mashing fighter game they can pick up the console and play as long as they want, why bother to turn a PC into a console.. PC's are more powerful and can accomplish much more than any console will ever be able to.. USE THIS..
I played it at GenCon. The game is tight. Hey is that a rock? *Mind power- Lift* *THROW* yeah i knocked that guy down *MIND BULLETS* pewpew. looking forward too it.
Ok i watched the video interview the OP posted up and as soon as i heard the words "button mashing" i stopped it and deleted any site about Champions online out of my faves.. Button Mashing stuff should stay on consoles, PC's are not designed to be button mashers and the moment a company decides to make a button masher for the PC is the day that company loses a lot of my faith and support.. I've played GW and recently bought CoX, i got bored with GW fairly early as i had reached max level after a week of play (roughly 4 hours a day spent playing), CoX i've only bought recently and it's still fun to me so time will tell. But i have no intention of trying out Champions online now that i've heard the words Button mashing being used as a reference to it by Jack Emmert himself. I agree that the MMO industry has to move forward in order to remain a grandslam pc genre but, making the combat more console friendly isn't the way to do it. CONTENT, ECONOMY, IMMERSION, GAMEPLAY, CRAFTING and DECAY are the key topics that should be focused on. I mean come on, take SOE's Star Wars Galaxies and USE what happened to that in your thoughts, Pre-NGE it had the decay, it had the crafting, it had the economy, it had the immersion and it certainly had the content, SOE removed these factors with the NGE and look what happened.... IT DIED.. and before anyone else disputes this fact hear why it's died... An MMO is only successful as long as it has subscribers to pay the companies bills for that particular game, SWG lost (at my estimate) 80% of it's subscribers within 2-3 months of the NGE changes.. Companies should use this for their gain and benefit, removing or not including CONTENT, ECONOMY, IMMERSION, GAMEPLAY, CRAFTING and DECAY means less subs right from launch no matter what new things you DO add or include, an MMO NEEDS these things to survive, NOT button mashing console style combat and nothing else. The majority of households have a console of some kind now and if people wanted to play a button mashing fighter game they can pick up the console and play as long as they want, why bother to turn a PC into a console.. PC's are more powerful and can accomplish much more than any console will ever be able to.. USE THIS..
Do you actually know what button mashing means?
Button mashing has always been a way to describe fast and rapid tapping of buttons in my mind.. if this isn't what was meant during the video interview then my apologies go to Cryptic. in the meantime i'll just wait for a trial to be released and see whats what.
No game will ever please everyone. If you don't like it, someone else will. I think it will be good if they try something new(ish). Games have to evolve.
No game will ever please everyone. If you don't like it, someone else will. I think it will be good if they try something new(ish). Games have to evolve.
I agree that not every game pleases everyone, this is evident in the number of subscriptions for various MMORPG's instead of everyone on all or one of them. You refer to button mashing as a new(ish) form, button mashing is ancient in games, remember the first arcade fighting games where you waggled a stick and slammed on the button hoping to do a combo move in Mortal Kombat? Why would people think that this is a good idea for a PC is beyond me, it's not moving forward, it's moving back and ignoring the real issues MMO's have these days... CONTENT and PLAYABILITY.
MMORPG designers should concentrate on the overall enjoyment for all current and/or future players (sub fee payers) instead of turning a good PC genre into a Console game. I'm sorry but i say keep mashing on consoles and keep playability and content for PC's. Age of Conan is a prime example of this, it has the "new(ish)" combat style, it has the supreme graphics yet it lacks in content and playability. Apart from the way combat is handled whats new about the game? nothing.... it's still an MMORPG, it still has the "talk to this person then kill this many people/creatures" missions/quests, nothing changes but the theme/background.. changing how combat is handled doesn't increase the chances of getting more subscriptions, which can't be disputed as to what the companies want.
No game will ever please everyone. If you don't like it, someone else will. I think it will be good if they try something new(ish). Games have to evolve.
I agree that not every game pleases everyone, this is evident in the number of subscriptions for various MMORPG's instead of everyone on all or one of them. You refer to button mashing as a new(ish) form, button mashing is ancient in games, remember the first arcade fighting games where you waggled a stick and slammed on the button hoping to do a combo move in Mortal Kombat? Why would people think that this is a good idea for a PC is beyond me, it's not moving forward, it's moving back and ignoring the real issues MMO's have these days... CONTENT and PLAYABILITY.
MMORPG designers should concentrate on the overall enjoyment for all current and/or future players (sub fee payers) instead of turning a good PC genre into a Console game. I'm sorry but i say keep mashing on consoles and keep playability and content for PC's. Age of Conan is a prime example of this, it has the "new(ish)" combat style, it has the supreme graphics yet it lacks in content and playability. Apart from the way combat is handled whats new about the game? nothing.... it's still an MMORPG, it still has the "talk to this person then kill this many people/creatures" missions/quests, nothing changes but the theme/background.. changing how combat is handled doesn't increase the chances of getting more subscriptions, which can't be disputed as to what the companies want.
I'm glad that Aoc Tried a new combat style, but as you say, there were far more to wish for in that game. But I think that the designers have to break the mould in more then one way. I wan't new combat systems, more content, better character customization, good background stories, meaningful PvP, good roleplaying servers and a lot of other things. Anything new besides the old click charge, click DoT, click snare -system would at least be worth trying.
Bringing entirely new things to a game isn't that neccesary for me. But if the sums of it's part brings forth a better and more improved game, then it's alright for me.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the OP really wants to feel everyone out to see who agrees with his position that Champions combat system shouldn't be based on console control schemes but stick with the traditional PC combat controls, WASD + mouse, and the same pacing you find in the classic PC MMO's such as City of Heroes and WoW. There should be a consenus as to who feels that a fast paced, console type combat is right for them and those who prefer a more predictable, slower paced combat model.
IMO, I am most certainly looking forward to the faster combat model that Cryptic is persuing and from all of the videos and interviews over the last few weeks, I am ready to invest in a 360 controller for my PC and will be practicing with it until Champions launches. Everyone that has tested it with the 360 controller says that it is not as difficult as it would appear and that everything flows as smoothly as it would using the traditional WASD and mouse combo.
So, every is entitled to voice an opinion on whether they like the faster combat model or not, and if that has lowered their enthusiams for the game, maybe other things will keep them in it and waiting for release. If they are not convinced and won't play the game, its no skin off their backs and they won't lose any sleep over it. They will find something else, DCUO or another game that will fulfill what they want and/or expect in their MMO experience.
The rest of us will wait, discuss the development of the game, and beg/whine/plead/bribe to get into the beta when it is announced. So, till then, I'll be patiently waiting for more news and developments to be announced and we'll all talk about it then.
T.T.F.N.
(That's Ta-Ta For Now, for the more uninitiate of you out there )
I for one enjoy the idea of a fast-paced superhero game, it worked in adventure single player, why not in a MMO. And second, the OP has no right to compare AOC's complete failure to anything else. Just because the combat system failed there, doesn't mean it will fail everywhere else.
Besides... AoC and fast-paced? I beg you, pick a demonologist. It might be fast-paced... but for a snail. I've never seen a more boring hybrid of action and rpg style
How the combat works is that you string punches or some other basic attack together to build up your endurance so you can do your more powerful attacks. It's definately more action based and faster paced than CoX, which is a good thing. And it solves one of CoX's biggest problems, that being the wait for endurance.
I did see that you get items and have an inventory, though I wasn't sure what they were for. Also I very much enjoy the look of the game and the art is a lot more appealing than what was done for CoX. Though I haven't tried DCO I would say CO is looking better. I just hope they fix the content issues that CoX has.
Well, If you are talking about CoH/CoV, I am not sure what strategy you are referring too. Basically you just set up your attack chains and then execute one power after the next until everything is dead (uhm, 'arrested'). Even for controllers, you just make sure to do a group hold before your individual attacks and holds. Or if you have a pet, then just let your pet run wild and buff your pet. The closest thing I can recall to actual strategy during combat was when I was soloing a kinetics defender and had to choose between getting an extra siphon power in, using siphon speed, or throwing an attack. Kinetics has so many combat options that it is sometimes impossible to fit everything in, especially if you are using transference as a ghetto hold. The strategy in CoH is in choosing and slotting your powers. Once in combat, pretty much the only choice that might affect the outcome of a fight is whether to use an inspiration or not. IMO, anything they can do to make combat less mechanical is a good thing. Using combinations and terrain effects is definitely one option. However, when it comes to full out Tekken style combat in a networked game, the serious fly in the ointment is lag. Maybe with creative use of instanced combat you can get around that problem, but I don't think the solution is obvious. BTW, CoH is already pretty joypad friendly. I have been using one for a while. I find it's lot easier on my wrists then hitting the num keys all the time. ~nox
QFT
If you look too close at the CoX mechanics they are about as MMO shallow as you can get, only the costume designer is a step forward (and probably limited to a MMO that doesn't have wearable items). Even things like sidekicking suck away at depth, as they turn every level of the game in to +/- to your level mechanics.
Homing projectiles, no collision detection allowing attacks to pass through walls (how many times have you been hit by an attack when you are in a different room) and you don't even have to face in the right direction to attack.
Noddy combat taken too extreme.
I had almost written CO off because it was going to have the same MMO bland combat as CoX, but if it has some twitch I may be forced to give it a chance.
Well to the contrary CO hasn't really stated it was going to have AoC type action. Everything I've seen from the devs it's going to be a mix of action and traditional MMO elements. Also people who played at the cons said you targeted someone, shot, hit'em or missed. Then you used block to keep standing when enemies gave 'tells' or big moves are about to hit ya. If that's too much for some lazy MMOers, then I don't think the game needs ya.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
More Action Jackson, the better. Tired of simple "Press a button, watch your character attack." gameplay. Jumping, dodging, blocking all sounds like more fun than "Let me show how skilled I am by strafing around you!" They could still mess it up. Age of Conan was more Simon Says than Street Fighter.
Interestingly, the fact that it's more action-oriented is one of the things that make me look forward to this game.
Well each to his, seriously. I just know I am not that nimble and dextrous to really be good at such things, being the classic role player. Its just my personal disappointment. I am sure to check it out and see how it really playes, tho.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Interestingly, the fact that it's more action-oriented is one of the things that make me look forward to this game.
Well each to his, seriously. I just know I am not that nimble and dextrous to really be good at such things, being the classic role player. Its just my personal disappointment. I am sure to check it out and see how it really playes, tho.
Then design your character to be a slow moving, invulnerable tank that hits like a truck.
In my opinion, I would think that adding this "button mashing" would actually make the game more strategic. It means planning your actions ahead of time, and actually having to think about it before striking. Your reflects have to be stronger and faster in order to achieve victory.
Also, button mashing is a lame term, and I'm sorry the guy used it. Button mashing is in no way a console only term, it was on the PCs long before consoles saw the light of day. It's not actually mashing the buttons in hopes that you attack. It's pressing the left mouse button to punch, the right to kick, or whatever you have that set to. I love it when it's set like this, because it's lame when you, as a gamer, have awesome aim in every game you play, yet you play an MMO with a D&D style combat system, and you miss every single time...It infuriates me. Tabula Rasa was the first MMO I played where it let me headshot at my leisure.
City of Heroes is a great game, I was actually hoping this game would turn away from the cartoonish feel and begin to show more mature shades...of course, it still may, time will tell. And by mature, I mean a story that isn't made of colorful super heroes wearing nice bright tights rescuing people who love heroes. I'm talking about those heroes who are conflicted whether or not to use their powers for good or evil, what their gains are, where the citizens of some city may fear or hate the heroes, despite their deeds, where they realize that tights only make you a target.
Enough off-topic from me...
To end this, super heroes cannot escape fast paced action. It's one of those things that makes them super. I just hope you can get one of those fast paced flight battles with your nemesis...that would be epic...
Mmm. Interesting... In my opinion, I would think that adding this "button mashing" would actually make the game more strategic. It means planning your actions ahead of time, and actually having to think about it before striking. Your reflects have to be stronger and faster in order to achieve victory. Also, button mashing is a lame term, and I'm sorry the guy used it. Button mashing is in no way a console only term, it was on the PCs long before consoles saw the light of day. It's not actually mashing the buttons in hopes that you attack. It's pressing the left mouse button to punch, the right to kick, or whatever you have that set to. I love it when it's set like this, because it's lame when you, as a gamer, have awesome aim in every game you play, yet you play an MMO with a D&D style combat system, and you miss every single time...It infuriates me. Tabula Rasa was the first MMO I played where it let me headshot at my leisure. City of Heroes is a great game, I was actually hoping this game would turn away from the cartoonish feel and begin to show more mature shades...of course, it still may, time will tell. And by mature, I mean a story that isn't made of colorful super heroes wearing nice bright tights rescuing people who love heroes. I'm talking about those heroes who are conflicted whether or not to use their powers for good or evil, what their gains are, where the citizens of some city may fear or hate the heroes, despite their deeds, where they realize that tights only make you a target. Enough off-topic from me... To end this, super heroes cannot escape fast paced action. It's one of those things that makes them super. I just hope you can get one of those fast paced flight battles with your nemesis...that would be epic...
um, mortal kombat (the original) was out and people were button mashing their way to victory, main stream, when most folks had only heard of computers (and didn't actually have PCs themselves). so i'm not sure what you're talking about with button mashing being pc first... the pc games back THEN, definitely weren't of the button masher type.
button mashing means the oppposite of strategic thinking. you mash a bunch of buttons until the fight is over.
i don't know, maybe i'm misreading the quoted because that post just irks me for some reason.
if cox ever gets their mission creator to release, and it's half assed decent; then, you will probably see a bunch of darker hero storylines.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by Elikal I dont know since when voicing MY personal opinion is a drama. *shrug* I just say how I view the ideas stated in this interview. I *personally* dont like fast paced action gaming. It doesnt mean such style is bad, its just not my kind of game. Thats neither drama nor whining, its a statement about MY preferrences.
lol - I will give you a hint
A pity. Another game bites the dust, another big flop in the making. Sigh.
Right there is the killer for your whole post that turns it into a - I dont like this type of game - therefore the game will fail post.
Comments
Even though I stopped playing AoC after 2 months, I greatly enjoyed the combat system and thought it was a leap forward. I am glad that Champions is moving in this direction. I feel bad for those who wanted it a different way, but I never spent any time trying to persuade the Devs to go in this direction. I never said I would not play the game if I didn't have it my way. However, I think that Champions was expected to go this direction from the start. This wasn't supposed to be CoH 2, but rather a more next-gen MMO version of games like "Freedom Force", or "Crackdown". At least, that is what I gathered being that it seems to be built more around the Xbox 360 than the PC. Honestly, I thought the Console angle was a bit refreshing, despite the fact I think that the majority of MMOs belong on PCs. When the game was first announced I had been without a gaming computer for a few years and had purchased an XBox 360 for all my gaming. I was glad to finally be able to play an MMO again. Since then I have bought my gaming PC, but I still think that this game fits better with the 360, and with a more console-oriented control scheme.
The MMO Genre is in desperate need of more innovation. Getting away from medieval fantasy was fine for a few years, but we need a major over-haul on gameplay and gameplay mechanics. Unfortunately, this genre is also the only one that has a large number of gamers who dislike change. I have never seen any large complaints about leaving 2D Side-Scrollers behind, or making FPS games more Sandbox and less Linear. Certainly no one complains about how many features have been added to the Major Sports games over the years. I figure right now 50% of the MMOs released are at least decent or playable, and of those 50% that are decent, the Average MMO fan will only find 1 or 2 a year that are worth playing more than a month or two. With more attempts at innovation and unique features we might have to go through a few years where only 25% or less of the MMOs released are decent, but after that, we could very well see a ratio of 50% great, and 25% decent. I'm willing to give up a year or two to get the kinds of MMOs we won't see for nearly a decade at the rate we are going now.
Ok i watched the video interview the OP posted up and as soon as i heard the words "button mashing" i stopped it and deleted any site about Champions online out of my faves.. Button Mashing stuff should stay on consoles, PC's are not designed to be button mashers and the moment a company decides to make a button masher for the PC is the day that company loses a lot of my faith and support.. I've played GW and recently bought CoX, i got bored with GW fairly early as i had reached max level after a week of play (roughly 4 hours a day spent playing), CoX i've only bought recently and it's still fun to me so time will tell. But i have no intention of trying out Champions online now that i've heard the words Button mashing being used as a reference to it by Jack Emmert himself. I agree that the MMO industry has to move forward in order to remain a grandslam pc genre but, making the combat more console friendly isn't the way to do it. CONTENT, ECONOMY, IMMERSION, GAMEPLAY, CRAFTING and DECAY are the key topics that should be focused on. I mean come on, take SOE's Star Wars Galaxies and USE what happened to that in your thoughts, Pre-NGE it had the decay, it had the crafting, it had the economy, it had the immersion and it certainly had the content, SOE removed these factors with the NGE and look what happened.... IT DIED.. and before anyone else disputes this fact hear why it's died... An MMO is only successful as long as it has subscribers to pay the companies bills for that particular game, SWG lost (at my estimate) 80% of it's subscribers within 2-3 months of the NGE changes.. Companies should use this for their gain and benefit, removing or not including CONTENT, ECONOMY, IMMERSION, GAMEPLAY, CRAFTING and DECAY means less subs right from launch no matter what new things you DO add or include, an MMO NEEDS these things to survive, NOT button mashing console style combat and nothing else. The majority of households have a console of some kind now and if people wanted to play a button mashing fighter game they can pick up the console and play as long as they want, why bother to turn a PC into a console.. PC's are more powerful and can accomplish much more than any console will ever be able to.. USE THIS..
Do you actually know what button mashing means?
I played it at GenCon. The game is tight. Hey is that a rock? *Mind power- Lift* *THROW* yeah i knocked that guy down *MIND BULLETS* pewpew. looking forward too it.
Do you actually know what button mashing means?
Button mashing has always been a way to describe fast and rapid tapping of buttons in my mind.. if this isn't what was meant during the video interview then my apologies go to Cryptic. in the meantime i'll just wait for a trial to be released and see whats what.
No game will ever please everyone. If you don't like it, someone else will. I think it will be good if they try something new(ish). Games have to evolve.
I don't understand this big push for " Action " rpgs these days.
I would much rather see a good rpg then a action rpg.
I agree that not every game pleases everyone, this is evident in the number of subscriptions for various MMORPG's instead of everyone on all or one of them. You refer to button mashing as a new(ish) form, button mashing is ancient in games, remember the first arcade fighting games where you waggled a stick and slammed on the button hoping to do a combo move in Mortal Kombat? Why would people think that this is a good idea for a PC is beyond me, it's not moving forward, it's moving back and ignoring the real issues MMO's have these days... CONTENT and PLAYABILITY.
MMORPG designers should concentrate on the overall enjoyment for all current and/or future players (sub fee payers) instead of turning a good PC genre into a Console game. I'm sorry but i say keep mashing on consoles and keep playability and content for PC's. Age of Conan is a prime example of this, it has the "new(ish)" combat style, it has the supreme graphics yet it lacks in content and playability. Apart from the way combat is handled whats new about the game? nothing.... it's still an MMORPG, it still has the "talk to this person then kill this many people/creatures" missions/quests, nothing changes but the theme/background.. changing how combat is handled doesn't increase the chances of getting more subscriptions, which can't be disputed as to what the companies want.
I agree that not every game pleases everyone, this is evident in the number of subscriptions for various MMORPG's instead of everyone on all or one of them. You refer to button mashing as a new(ish) form, button mashing is ancient in games, remember the first arcade fighting games where you waggled a stick and slammed on the button hoping to do a combo move in Mortal Kombat? Why would people think that this is a good idea for a PC is beyond me, it's not moving forward, it's moving back and ignoring the real issues MMO's have these days... CONTENT and PLAYABILITY.
MMORPG designers should concentrate on the overall enjoyment for all current and/or future players (sub fee payers) instead of turning a good PC genre into a Console game. I'm sorry but i say keep mashing on consoles and keep playability and content for PC's. Age of Conan is a prime example of this, it has the "new(ish)" combat style, it has the supreme graphics yet it lacks in content and playability. Apart from the way combat is handled whats new about the game? nothing.... it's still an MMORPG, it still has the "talk to this person then kill this many people/creatures" missions/quests, nothing changes but the theme/background.. changing how combat is handled doesn't increase the chances of getting more subscriptions, which can't be disputed as to what the companies want.
I'm glad that Aoc Tried a new combat style, but as you say, there were far more to wish for in that game. But I think that the designers have to break the mould in more then one way. I wan't new combat systems, more content, better character customization, good background stories, meaningful PvP, good roleplaying servers and a lot of other things. Anything new besides the old click charge, click DoT, click snare -system would at least be worth trying.
Bringing entirely new things to a game isn't that neccesary for me. But if the sums of it's part brings forth a better and more improved game, then it's alright for me.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the OP really wants to feel everyone out to see who agrees with his position that Champions combat system shouldn't be based on console control schemes but stick with the traditional PC combat controls, WASD + mouse, and the same pacing you find in the classic PC MMO's such as City of Heroes and WoW. There should be a consenus as to who feels that a fast paced, console type combat is right for them and those who prefer a more predictable, slower paced combat model.
IMO, I am most certainly looking forward to the faster combat model that Cryptic is persuing and from all of the videos and interviews over the last few weeks, I am ready to invest in a 360 controller for my PC and will be practicing with it until Champions launches. Everyone that has tested it with the 360 controller says that it is not as difficult as it would appear and that everything flows as smoothly as it would using the traditional WASD and mouse combo.
So, every is entitled to voice an opinion on whether they like the faster combat model or not, and if that has lowered their enthusiams for the game, maybe other things will keep them in it and waiting for release. If they are not convinced and won't play the game, its no skin off their backs and they won't lose any sleep over it. They will find something else, DCUO or another game that will fulfill what they want and/or expect in their MMO experience.
The rest of us will wait, discuss the development of the game, and beg/whine/plead/bribe to get into the beta when it is announced. So, till then, I'll be patiently waiting for more news and developments to be announced and we'll all talk about it then.
T.T.F.N.
(That's Ta-Ta For Now, for the more uninitiate of you out there
)
For a superhero game I actually like the idea of a faster paced game.
I for one enjoy the idea of a fast-paced superhero game, it worked in adventure single player, why not in a MMO. And second, the OP has no right to compare AOC's complete failure to anything else. Just because the combat system failed there, doesn't mean it will fail everywhere else.
Besides... AoC and fast-paced? I beg you, pick a demonologist. It might be fast-paced... but for a snail. I've never seen a more boring hybrid of action and rpg style
I played it at PAX.
How the combat works is that you string punches or some other basic attack together to build up your endurance so you can do your more powerful attacks. It's definately more action based and faster paced than CoX, which is a good thing. And it solves one of CoX's biggest problems, that being the wait for endurance.
I did see that you get items and have an inventory, though I wasn't sure what they were for. Also I very much enjoy the look of the game and the art is a lot more appealing than what was done for CoX. Though I haven't tried DCO I would say CO is looking better. I just hope they fix the content issues that CoX has.
QFT
If you look too close at the CoX mechanics they are about as MMO shallow as you can get, only the costume designer is a step forward (and probably limited to a MMO that doesn't have wearable items). Even things like sidekicking suck away at depth, as they turn every level of the game in to +/- to your level mechanics.
Homing projectiles, no collision detection allowing attacks to pass through walls (how many times have you been hit by an attack when you are in a different room) and you don't even have to face in the right direction to attack.
Noddy combat taken too extreme.
I had almost written CO off because it was going to have the same MMO bland combat as CoX, but if it has some twitch I may be forced to give it a chance.
Weak post..
"I'm afraid of a video game."
Well to the contrary CO hasn't really stated it was going to have AoC type action. Everything I've seen from the devs it's going to be a mix of action and traditional MMO elements. Also people who played at the cons said you targeted someone, shot, hit'em or missed. Then you used block to keep standing when enemies gave 'tells' or big moves are about to hit ya. If that's too much for some lazy MMOers, then I don't think the game needs ya.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
I was hoping it would be COH only good instead of bad. I can't say I'm interested in a MMOFPSRPG either.
Look at mount and blade, that game has action combat, and the RPG elements of it are flawless. If it works like that then I am sold guys.
_____________________________
At the turn of the century...
In 2008...
Cracked.com voted Roosevelt as the most badass President of all time.
This is his story....
agree man, to play a good AoC you have to be a pop player, to be a good wow player you have to be a jazz player...
More Action Jackson, the better. Tired of simple "Press a button, watch your character attack." gameplay. Jumping, dodging, blocking all sounds like more fun than "Let me show how skilled I am by strafing around you!" They could still mess it up. Age of Conan was more Simon Says than Street Fighter.
Interestingly, the fact that it's more action-oriented is one of the things that make me look forward to this game.
Well each to his, seriously. I just know I am not that nimble and dextrous to really be good at such things, being the classic role player. Its just my personal disappointment. I am sure to check it out and see how it really playes, tho.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Well each to his, seriously. I just know I am not that nimble and dextrous to really be good at such things, being the classic role player. Its just my personal disappointment. I am sure to check it out and see how it really playes, tho.
Then design your character to be a slow moving, invulnerable tank that hits like a truck.
Mmm. Interesting...
In my opinion, I would think that adding this "button mashing" would actually make the game more strategic. It means planning your actions ahead of time, and actually having to think about it before striking. Your reflects have to be stronger and faster in order to achieve victory.
Also, button mashing is a lame term, and I'm sorry the guy used it. Button mashing is in no way a console only term, it was on the PCs long before consoles saw the light of day. It's not actually mashing the buttons in hopes that you attack. It's pressing the left mouse button to punch, the right to kick, or whatever you have that set to. I love it when it's set like this, because it's lame when you, as a gamer, have awesome aim in every game you play, yet you play an MMO with a D&D style combat system, and you miss every single time...It infuriates me. Tabula Rasa was the first MMO I played where it let me headshot at my leisure.
City of Heroes is a great game, I was actually hoping this game would turn away from the cartoonish feel and begin to show more mature shades...of course, it still may, time will tell. And by mature, I mean a story that isn't made of colorful super heroes wearing nice bright tights rescuing people who love heroes. I'm talking about those heroes who are conflicted whether or not to use their powers for good or evil, what their gains are, where the citizens of some city may fear or hate the heroes, despite their deeds, where they realize that tights only make you a target.
Enough off-topic from me...
To end this, super heroes cannot escape fast paced action. It's one of those things that makes them super. I just hope you can get one of those fast paced flight battles with your nemesis...that would be epic...
um, mortal kombat (the original) was out and people were button mashing their way to victory, main stream, when most folks had only heard of computers (and didn't actually have PCs themselves). so i'm not sure what you're talking about with button mashing being pc first... the pc games back THEN, definitely weren't of the button masher type.
button mashing means the oppposite of strategic thinking. you mash a bunch of buttons until the fight is over.
i don't know, maybe i'm misreading the quoted because that post just irks me for some reason.
if cox ever gets their mission creator to release, and it's half assed decent; then, you will probably see a bunch of darker hero storylines.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
lol - I will give you a hint
Right there is the killer for your whole post that turns it into a - I dont like this type of game - therefore the game will fail post.