Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Questions about Full Looting in PVP

13»

Comments

  • ghoul31ghoul31 Member Posts: 1,955
    Originally posted by Falconoffury


    [quote]Every single FFA PvP MMO in the MMO history has mutated into a more carebear rule set. The ones that didnt mutated just died.[/quote]
    That's not true. Asheron's Call didn't die, and Darktide is the most populated server, which has FFA PvP and full looting.
    I



     

    And how many people play on the Darktide server now? a couple hundred? Do you think Darkfall can survive with a couple hundred people ? No it can't.

  • UbberGooberUbberGoober Member Posts: 247

    you sound as if you have played this game for years. But in truth, nobody has played it. So you don't know how it will work. The only thing we have to go on is UO, since we played that game, and it had similar rules. And it was a failure and was gotten rid of.

    So it was a total failure in UO, and Darkfall will do the same thing, and yet it will be a totall success this time? That makes no sense.

    So keep dreaming you bizarre fantasises about how wonderful full looting will be. The truth will be much different.



    UO did have simmilar rules, but it did not fail because of them it failed because they decided to change the rules on everyone and scrapped completely what worked; they had well over 100,000 subscribers and at the time they had a successful game until they completely decided to fuck everything up by removing accountability and making the entire game a carebearfest. This was at the time they decided to copy off Verant and EQ which sucked donkey balls, it was an item and level grind with safe zones and no accountability. Since there are no levels, and classes in DF and no Godly items I don't see this being a problem; items are there to complement the game and not dominate it this is how it should be and how it has to be if you want a player driven economy and crafting that works.

     

     

     

  • rikiliirikilii Member UncommonPosts: 1,084
    Originally posted by Mazer14

    Originally posted by ghoul31

    Originally posted by Mazer14


     
    I was referring to UO where having a 2nd or 3rd character to support your PK was possible. Same point I was trying to make as you.
    1 character per account means people will really have to make a difficult choice on what style of character they want to play.
    Going on a mass murder spree will have serious consequences since you can't help yourself out with a mule character or w/e... Unless you want to pay for a 2nd account.



     

    If having a second account will give you a huge advantage, and let you pk without consequences, you better believe that a large percentage of the population will have second accounts.

     

     

    Again, a baseless assumption. I wouldn't mind the option of a second account but paying an extra $15/mo or w/e it is for a game is out of the picture for me. I'm not gonna say some people aren't gonna do it, I just don't see it being the problem you're making it out to be.

     

    Second, third, even fourth + accounts was the norm in SWG.

    If they're really going to have a consequences system, the consequences have to infect not only the ganker, but also any player that trades with him.  Otherwise, it will be meaningless.

    ____________________________________________
    im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821
    Originally posted by ghoul31

    Originally posted by Mazer14


    That's true. However it is important to note that there will be gameplay elements  in place that will make being an all out PK'er hard to pull of. You will be an outcast, buying supplies will be hard, you will be hunted etc.
    I think the fact the game has been in development for so long is a testament to the thought they are putting into the game.



     

    UO had the same consequences for pkers. And they didn't work at all

     

    Lineage II had the same consequences for Pkers and it worked quite well. In fact until WoW was released it was the second most popular MMO in the world...topped only by Lineage I which also had the same type of Karma/Alignment ruleset. Sure L2 was only partial loot but it still had the same type of PvP ruleset that Darkfall is proposing. No one, not even myself can say whether or not the alignment system in DF will work or not until we play the game. I guess we shall all see soon enough.

     

    Edit: Oh and in Lineage II if you had bad Karma (Similar to Darkfall's Alignment) you had more chance of dropping more of your gear. This was cumulative so if you killed someone who had been PKing a lot you had a good chance of cleaning them out when they dropped.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • Keeper2000Keeper2000 Member UncommonPosts: 637
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    Originally posted by ghoul31

    Originally posted by Mazer14


    That's true. However it is important to note that there will be gameplay elements  in place that will make being an all out PK'er hard to pull of. You will be an outcast, buying supplies will be hard, you will be hunted etc.
    I think the fact the game has been in development for so long is a testament to the thought they are putting into the game.



    UO had the same consequences for pkers. And they didn't work at all

    Lineage II had the same consequences for Pkers and it worked quite well. In fact until WoW was released it was the second most popular MMO in the world...topped only by Lineage I which also had the same type of Karma/Alignment ruleset. Sure L2 was only partial loot but it still had the same type of PvP ruleset that Darkfall is proposing. No one, not even myself can say whether or not the alignment system in DF will work or not until we play the game. I guess we shall all see soon enough.

    Bren

    Hi, Bren.  I retried Lin2 recently.  They changed some stuff.  I would say its more carebear.  It's not anymore FFA PvP... now there are protections and a lvl 60 dagger can run around killing lvls 10 anymore.  So it mutated too and still mutating too :(

    I guess the consequences werent enough and it pushed the game into a more carebear environment.

    Besides the penalties for been a PK in Lin2 werent from alignment.  You just become free meat, if you killed someone that didnt fight you back.  By free meat I meant you were flaged.

    Now, for example, they made the penalties even more.  Now if you have more than 5 PK (I think its 5, cant remember) your chances of lossing gear is huge when you die.

    In the other hand, I will add that it was partial loot (I think they change that too... now you hardly will drop anything unless you a PK) was simply because the game is sooooo gear focus that people wont be able to handle full looting in Lin2.

    The written stuff of DF seem good to me in the sense that they should minimize the frustration when people dies.  For example, DF doesnt seem to be a gear centric game (which I think is key for a full loot system).  I have my hopes that the core design of DF will support the FFA and the full looting.

    As you said we shall see soon.

  • Mazer14Mazer14 Member UncommonPosts: 129
    Originally posted by rikilii

    Originally posted by Mazer14

    Originally posted by ghoul31

    Originally posted by Mazer14


     
    I was referring to UO where having a 2nd or 3rd character to support your PK was possible. Same point I was trying to make as you.
    1 character per account means people will really have to make a difficult choice on what style of character they want to play.
    Going on a mass murder spree will have serious consequences since you can't help yourself out with a mule character or w/e... Unless you want to pay for a 2nd account.



     

    If having a second account will give you a huge advantage, and let you pk without consequences, you better believe that a large percentage of the population will have second accounts.

     

     

    Again, a baseless assumption. I wouldn't mind the option of a second account but paying an extra $15/mo or w/e it is for a game is out of the picture for me. I'm not gonna say some people aren't gonna do it, I just don't see it being the problem you're making it out to be.

     

    Second, third, even fourth + accounts was the norm in SWG.

    If they're really going to have a consequences system, the consequences have to infect not only the ganker, but also any player that trades with him.  Otherwise, it will be meaningless.

     

    People paying for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th account ($150/year per extra account ) was the norm? I don't believe that for a second

    But you do make a valid point, characters that trade with their own murderers should also face consequences. That's a good point to make.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821
    Originally posted by Keeper2000

    Originally posted by Brenelael

    Originally posted by ghoul31

    Originally posted by Mazer14


    That's true. However it is important to note that there will be gameplay elements  in place that will make being an all out PK'er hard to pull of. You will be an outcast, buying supplies will be hard, you will be hunted etc.
    I think the fact the game has been in development for so long is a testament to the thought they are putting into the game.



    UO had the same consequences for pkers. And they didn't work at all

    Lineage II had the same consequences for Pkers and it worked quite well. In fact until WoW was released it was the second most popular MMO in the world...topped only by Lineage I which also had the same type of Karma/Alignment ruleset. Sure L2 was only partial loot but it still had the same type of PvP ruleset that Darkfall is proposing. No one, not even myself can say whether or not the alignment system in DF will work or not until we play the game. I guess we shall all see soon enough.

    Bren

    Hi, Bren.  I retried Lin2 recently.  They changed some stuff.  I would say its more carebear.  It's not anymore FFA PvP... now there are protections and a lvl 60 dagger can run around killing lvls 10 anymore.  So it mutated too and still mutating too :(

    I guess the consequences werent enough and it pushed the game into a more carebear environment.

    Besides the penalties for been a PK in Lin2 werent from alignment.  You just become free meat, if you killed someone that didnt fight you back.  By free meat I meant you were flaged.

    Now, for example, they made the penalties even more.  Now if you have more than 5 PK (I think its 5, cant remember) your chances of lossing gear is huge when you die.

    In the other hand, I will add that it was partial loot (I think they change that too... now you hardly will drop anything unless you a PK) was simply because the game is sooooo gear focus that people wont be able to handle full looting in Lin2.

    The written stuff of DF seem good to me in the sense that they should minimize the frustration when people dies.  For example, DF doesnt seem to be a gear centric game (which I think is key for a full loot system).  I have my hopes that the core design of DF will support the FFA and the full looting.

    As you said we shall see soon.

    Yes I know about the changes and they were one of the main reasons I left that game. I played from closed beta until just after C5 was released...so for about 3 years give or take. I stopped playing just after they made it so if you weren't red (Meaning having no bad Karma) you never dropped anything as I could see where it was going...

     

    But this is about Darkfall so on with the debate!

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • PrexisPrexis Member Posts: 38

     There are some other factors in full loot worth noting.

     

    First of all limited insta travel means players with loot will likely need to travel with it. This opens opportunity to reclaim lost goods.

     

    Second, theres a limit on what can be carried. it's only a matter of time before someone who is out pking is full up on loot. This will likely make them selective in their looting.

    This is where the bag configuartion comes into play. from just about everything thats shown inventory we know that it's not a slot based system but instead works much like uo. This means players could go to the effort of organizing valuables and hiding them under layers of other stuff... This may not be a surefire way to ensure your stuff isn't looted but it does give you a bit of time, time to re supply and get out there before he dissapears perhaps?

     

    Also as has been mentioned restocking shouldn't take long... it may not be so simple as going out and killing a mob for his rust sword but it gets you started. more importantly a stockpile of cash allows you to purchase from vendors or crafters or hell pick up some crafting skills yourself.

    With all the stuff that there is to loot mayhaps you'll even be so lucky as to only have what you were wearing looted due to the opponents lack of storage space even some of the crafting supplies you gathered while out in the wild is still on your body. leaving you enough to reforge and resupply rather quickly.

     

    If you're looking to go solo I would think some crafting skills would be very good.

     

    The final thing to work to some solo players advantage (and I use solo players as an example because guilds/groups shouldn't run into the same issues as they can pool rescources) could be the sheer size of the world and mobile mobs. Not locking down mob spawns means little in the way of camping is possible. and with the world as large as it is, it might be harder to find a lone player. Combined with the lack of magical invisible stealth and such it is harder to sneak up and get the drop on players. 

     

    But I suppose we won't know for sure till this beta phase starts up.

     

     

    Oh and as a side note, Shadowbane failed because of server issues, major lag issues and major crashing and client stability issues. Not because of the open pvp gameplay and the difficulties it potentially presented to new players. 

    image

  • rikiliirikilii Member UncommonPosts: 1,084
    Originally posted by Mazer14 
    People paying for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th account ($150/year per extra account ) was the norm? I don't believe that for a second
    But you do make a valid point, characters that trade with their own murderers should also face consequences. That's a good point to make.

     

    "Norm" may be a bit strong, but it was extremely prevalent.  I'm generally a very casual gamer, but I had two accounts, as did many of my friends and guild mates.  I can't tell you how many times I've read posts by people talking about how they "canceled 5 of my six accounts" and such. 

    I would say that a large percentage of long-term players had 2 accounts.  Obviously a much lower percentage had more than that.

    ____________________________________________
    im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good

  • Originally posted by ghoul31

    Originally posted by Phos


     

    Originally posted by fogelklou



    If its anything like original UO items (armor/weapons) will be of little value to the winner and will thus be left on the corpse. Only a true griefer would strip you to the bones. Other items however will most certainly be looted, ie money, any rare armor/weapon (by god I hope those are rare and far between), reagents, potions etc. Anyways, armor/weapons shouldnt be an issue if the devs play it smart.

     



    Agreed.

    I understand how people get scared by FFA PvP and 100% corpse looting. In the current gaming culture, most MMOs are very gear-driven and gear-dependant. So the idea of someone killing you and lootin you is very frightening to people who don't know any other style of MMO.

    But for those of you who've been playing since the early UO days, you know it can be WAY MORE FUN with an FFA PvP and 100% loot system when done right.



    - Phos

     



     

    UO got rid of the system because it failed. And nobody has done it since.

     

    UO got rid of it because they listened to the 5 year olds who played, and it severly hurt their buisness.

  • winterwinter Member UncommonPosts: 2,281
    Originally posted by Thoric485

    Originally posted by Mazer14


    Having a 2nd character on the same account to supply your PK wasn't out of the norm, was it?

    You will be allowed only one char per server. So to supply your PK needs you will need a second account.



     

     No all you'd need is a friend that plays or a guild. Hell there will be plenty of players willing to sell to a griefer if the price is right, but yeah a second account would work just as easily.

  • Mazer14Mazer14 Member UncommonPosts: 129

    Requiring help from a 2nd person already makes it different from UO (minus Siege Perilous). But like someone else posted earlier, there should be some sort of 'penalty' to people who trade with PKs so that there are consequences for doing so.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.

  • nileqnileq Member Posts: 476

    I wrote a blog on the subject some days ago.

    It explains how I think the expected features and game mechanics of Darkfall will bring about a healthy view on full loot.

    go here: www.mmorpg.com/blogs/nileq/092008/2589_Full-loot-in-Darkfall-Online-should-not-scare-you

    *****************************
    I have nothing clever to say.

  • bcrankshawbcrankshaw Member Posts: 547
    Originally posted by nileq


    I wrote a blog on the subject some days ago.
    It explains how I think the expected features and game mechanics of Darkfall will bring about a healthy view on full loot.
    go here: www.mmorpg.com/blogs/nileq/092008/2589_Full-loot-in-Darkfall-Online-should-not-scare-you



     

    Nice blog and really informative :)

    I too was concerned about the whole "full loot " concept because I thought of Darkfall as other MMO's I play Vanguard ,UO and Everquest 2 .Then it was explained to me the concept of how items aren't really important and how there will be guild crafters and banking systems in Darkfall which makes full looting not as terrible as I thought

    I'm excited to try something different :)

    "after the time of dice came the day of mice "

  • nileqnileq Member Posts: 476

    Why thankyou bcrankshaw ;p

    *****************************
    I have nothing clever to say.

  • ghoul31ghoul31 Member Posts: 1,955

    One problem I see is that you have 28 armor and weapon slots. Just imagine having to replace 28 items everytime you die

     

  • Kruniac2Kruniac2 Member Posts: 35
    Originally posted by ghoul31


    One problem I see is that you have 28 armor and weapon slots. Just imagine having to replace 28 items everytime you die
     

     

    On the darkfall forums, they say some nonsense about "newbie equipment". Seems when you die, you're going to respawn with your original newbie gear. Bah.

     

    Go UO style, baby! Naked, save for your newbie pants and a Death Robe!

  • shad0wyoneshad0wyone Member Posts: 20

    Well, I believe that someone from Aventurine said that gear would not take a long time, this game is not gear-dependant at all. It's completely skill based.

  • xcvx73xcvx73 Member UncommonPosts: 33

    Maybe will be a bunch of items with an atribute like: " not dropable" or something like this....

    Some rare ones.....

  • nileqnileq Member Posts: 476
    Originally posted by xcvx73


    Maybe will be a bunch of items with an atribute like: " not dropable" or something like this....
    Some rare ones.....

     

    lol no.. and just to prove it, i'll loot you dry!

    *****************************
    I have nothing clever to say.

  • sandboxysandboxy Member Posts: 153
    Originally posted by rikilii


     has anyone given any serious thought to how it will affect the playability of the game?



     

    This question has been asked and answered in DF forums at least once every week for the last 5+ years.

    So yes.

  • Revenant007Revenant007 Member Posts: 54

    I have never anticipated the release of any computer game save one, and that was Quake 2 and it failed for me so I kept on playing Quake and TF for years.

    This is the only game in the last ten years that I am looking forward to and will definately get into from day one. If it does half the things it says it will half as well as promised then I'd still be happy.

    FFA PvP doesn't bother me, in fact I look forward to it. Ultima Online was the only mmo I truly enjoyed, back when it was full loot and I didn't have a problem with it. Every time I logged on I'd check out the vendors and replenish my stockpile of weapons and armor, then when you died it took about two minutes to re-equip and get back into battle. I just dont understand what all the drama is about. It's a game. If you don't like the concept of full loot ffa then dont play it, maybe hello kitty online is more your style.

    Sure you're going to get ganked occasionally, but it's worth it for full accountability. Someone pisses you off, kill em. Someone kill-stealing on you? Kill em. And if you die its no big drama, just re-equip and get back out there. Live and learn. I just hope Aventurine has the fortitude to not cave into the carebears and ruin the game in search of higher profits from a falsly perceived larger audience.

Sign In or Register to comment.