You really mean to tell me that public quests (elite wow quests disguised) of kill collecting 30 or 50 of some mob are "good pve example" ?
And that ONE quest that's close to the giver is another one?
And that because it's a system completely dumbed down (the 100% chance of drop) for kids, being that we can't even figure the quest spot by ourselves we need the red blur on the map, they are forgiven for the fact that
they still keep on recycling the same old stinking levelling structure?
I've been told one of the tome quests revolving around a small tower in an abandonned field... a tome page unlocks and it's got 5 of those marks or quest objectives... you have to figure out how to enter, maybe the villagers nearby know something... that's COOL but it's like one over a million collect 20 boars' teeth then go back to the giver to go collect 30 bats' dicks.
I know people who proudly declare "i collect the things and then get killed by a critter so i respawn back to the Qgiver"
(gee you guys answer quick ) You really mean to tell me that public quests (elite wow quests disguised) of kill collecting 30 or 50 of some mob are "good pve example" ? And that ONE quest that's close to the giver is another one? And that because it's a system completely dumbed down (the 100% chance of drop) for kids, being that we can't even figure the quest spot by ourselves we need the red blur on the map, they are forgiven for the fact that they still keep on recycling the same old stinking levelling structure?
So you complain that you have to kill a few mobs, then complain because it is a 100% drop rate? Lol, give me a break man. I see I've been trolled! Time to hit the sack, my previous replies should be enough for an objective observer to spot your trollage.
Hopefully one day you will realize how easy it is to criticize, yet how difficult it is to create. This is the first game in a long time where I've actually enjoyed most of the PvE, and I play the lowest DPS class in the game, along with being much more of a PvPer than PvEr if I had to pick.
Originally posted by cukimunga Pretty much every MMO ive ever played had the kill x amount of creatures and whatnot. All i hear you say is WoW,this WoW that. Games did it before that game and they will continue to do it.
That's a huge lie, you just don't know many MMO's
I never played damn Everquest (the one who started the whole shit engine), and i don't know if it had that kind of quests, but i first saw them in DAOC in a young form. But sure as hell WoW is the game that employed them as the real way to level and since then EVERY single mmo did it too. It's a fact.
If you played UO you'd know there weren't any quests. And anarchy online didn't have them (they were randomly generated, taken in a steady terminal, no running from map to map and from npc to npc like an idiot. And planetside had no trace, and Neocron, and EVE.
So you complain that you have to kill a few mobs, then complain because it is a 100% drop rate? Lol, give me a break man. I see I've been trolled! Time to hit the sack, my previous replies should be enough for an objective observer to spot your trollage. Hopefully one day you will realize how easy it is to criticize, yet how difficult it is to create. This is the first game in a long time where I've actually enjoyed most of the PvE, and I play the lowest DPS class in the game, along with being much more of a PvPer than PvEr if I had to pick.
Why is it so strange? I complain about killing mobs because it works EXACTLY like WoW (not in a generic RP games way), and i complain that every kill drops the Q item because not only it's the same stinking system, but it reveals that it's been dumbed down, too. What i mean is sure you can keep the same quest structure, if you must, but at least make it smarter for mature people, not easier for lazy blokes. Make every quest completable in a way that relies on the class "talents" (fallout?), make it ethical(Jade Empire/Mass Effect?), give me a "karma" evaluation based on some interaction completeness (many adventure games of nineties like, say, King's Quest or the one in my signature, Robin Hood), like a "hidden solution of wit" (don't kill the poor spiders that hold the medicinal essence, the liquid's findable in a hidden bush cause the spiders drop it naturally [a notion learned from the tome].... or buy it off a wandering doctor)... instead no, it's a WoW quest in every way, AND it's dumbed down for kids with a 100% drop chance.
Sure, I agree with you, quests are way better than all the other WoW clones.. but you can't deny that the system is still exactly WoW's and that's the problem. They made a marketing choice and they decide to reuse the system... but after all WAR IS just marketing, it's a good attempt (maybe the best so far) to steal kids from WoW, and that can be obtained only by furthering the user-friendly / dumb-down process that WoW began 4 years ago (off Daoc).
And i didn't even mention the fact that i still enjoy quests more than the dull, flat RvR.
Originally posted by cukimunga Pretty much every MMO ive ever played had the kill x amount of creatures and whatnot. All i hear you say is WoW,this WoW that. Games did it before that game and they will continue to do it.
That's a huge lie, you just don't know many MMO's
I never played damn Everquest (the one who started the whole shit engine), and i don't know if it had that kind of quests, but i first saw them in DAOC in a young form. But sure as hell WoW is the game that employed them as the real way to level and since then EVERY single mmo did it too. It's a fact.
If you played UO you'd know there weren't any quests. And anarchy online didn't have them (they were randomly generated, taken in a steady terminal, no running from map to map and from npc to npc like an idiot. And planetside had no trace, and Neocron, and EVE.
What are you talking about? EVE has "quests," so does UO, AND Neocron.....
Perhaps you're thinking of skill advancement? Because skill advancement in all three of those games is TOTALLY not done like in WoW, WAR, EQ, etc. However....all of those games DO, indeed, have quests. It's just that quests ALONE are not how you "level." Well...in those games "leveling" is entirely different even. Heck in EVE you DON'T even "level", per say, and quests aren't CALLED "quests," but you do have things you do for rep, etc....and they're essentially "quests," just not implemented the same way as in WoW or EQ, etc.
So are you talking about the skill systems, or quests? Sorry...just didn't get what you were saying exactly.
seeing a guy with his blasted exclamation mark upon his head, right click him, read the quest description, see the rewards, push accept.
I'm not talking about a generic concept of quest. Ofc every game does have one. I'm talking of the above system taken EXACTLY AS IS in every mmo since wow (there was only daoc with it, as far as i know, but nobody levelled with those quests, there were few and unpleasant)
Heh ofc UO has quests, and AO's levelling system IS thru missions.
But for UO they were like 0.1% of the game (and it was one, escort some folk) and nobody would have considered levelling (in UO case skill % raising)... infact what am i saying? they just gave money !
And for AO, even tho they are infact the best way to level, They are provided entirely differently. They are randomly generated, all taken off terminals, you choose with a slide the level of difficulty, and they're all instanced. It's completely different from WoW system.
And I bet/hope Darkfall finally introduces a different levelling structure!
With this said i go kip and please play my signature "quest", everyone
I think you guys are confusing quest difficulty and quest time sinks.
if a mob drops a quest item you can go two routes, both equally easy.
1. make it 1 kill 1 drop
2. make the players grind on the mob for a while to aquire all the drops, some games have 1 drop per 5, others require much more grinding.
#2 is just add more time than #1 and works best for games where per kill xp is very very low.
Warhammer is about removing boring time sinks...aka grinding, more so than most games out there.
The whole point of warhammer is to be fun not time consuming.
So i disagree with the "omg they are dumming down quests because i dont have to grind on a mob for 45min to get all my drops" arguments. Go play any f2p asian grinder out there if you want a hard quest (by your definition) and go grind on amob for a few hours.
Personally i dont kind the "fetch" quests if i know i wont be camping out grinding for the next 45min to complete it.
For everyone asking for a revolutionary "quest system" that doesnt involve killing or fetching, i gurantee it wont be called a mmo.
I like the kill/fetch quests if theres a story behind it or a reason for me doing it. warhammer probides ample story and reason. Anyway its not like doing quests is the ONLY thing to do in game, there is plenty of ther means of progressing your character.
Actually, I see many, many people doing stupid things in PvP and getting themselves killed. That's skill for me. Sure, 1 on 1 is not skill based, but that was never the point, because the whole RvR is not centered around 1 on 1.
Regaining an RvR area, holding neuralgic points, defending or better, assaulting a keep, using siege units, using NPCs in your favor, is with no doubt mainly skillbased. Remember WoW BG, it was zerg-fest 2000, or LotRo, where you pretty much teamed up with as many people as possible to cut through the keep like a hot knive through butter. That's all pretty much not there in WAR... So if you're complaining that a 3 vs 3 in open field, which is pretty much pointless "lol PvP"-skirmishing, is gear based -> Agreed, but that's the difference between a PvP and a RvR approach.
And finding guys to RvR is a matter of population, not mechanics. Some servers have serious population problems, others don't, that's not mythics fault per se, though it's their responibility to regulate this in the near future.
Scenarios are NOT empty for me, that is heavily population based and if you play a dwarf for example on a usual Destruction-infested realm, you can play scenarios 24/7.
PvE was said to be "something to do when you need some change". It was crystal clear from the start that PvE would be 90% kill x amount of z.
Concerning stealth; they SAID there would be stealth, but not permanent stealth, they said that classes like the witch hunter and witch elf would not make sense if they could not be kind of rogueish. So no lies there...
I can only wonder what some of you made up in your minds with the information given. In my book, I've not encountered a single issue where Mythic has lied about game content or mechanics. If you didn't bother to inform yourselves with the tons and tons of podcasts and interviews at hand, well, that's your own fault...
1. RvR / PvP is ruled by Level (over) Gear (over) skill. No matter how good a player(s) is/are they CAN NOT compete against a group that out level(s) them by any means. So for Mythic having said 60% Skill and 40% Gear is incorrect and false, its more like 80% Level, 19% Gear and 1% Skill (And Skill is debatable since the game will auto turn you if someone tried to stay out of your LoS, not much skill in that!) sounds like QQing cause someone got their ass handed to them on a silver platter. I play alot of scenarios and rvr but for this purpose i'll use scenario play as an example...There were many times that the other realm had more high level players then the team i was on( i got both order and destro characters) but we stomped that @$$ so hard they left with 200 points or less. I would say gear is a big factor but all my gear is bought from a merchant or won from loot rolls in rvr/scenarios. I've even been in pugs that beat GGs. skill(knowing how to play your character) and communication are the key. Gear also plays a huge role, Anyone that goes into Tier 2 Scenarios with their T1 Gear will not have enough DPS compared to those that are in Tier 2 (with the _LEVEL_ requirement) and their Tier 2 Weapons/Armor. no duh!!! gear does play a role especially since the higher ranking players can wear better gear. if you come to a gun fight with a knife you'll probably lose =p the point is that the higher level you are the better gear you have access to and even if you don't have the best gear if you know how to play your character and fight against someone well equiped but doesn't know how to pvp well then you'll win because you have better "skill". 2. Empty Tier 3 Scenarios taking hours to que up, making anyone thats level 22 having to run PQ and Quests, this is a _HUGE_ boaring grind; then slow down on leveling and explore the world more. there is so much to do and see, its easy to miss something your first time around. eventually more players will hit T3 and queues for scenarios will be alot shorter. PQ - Kills X number of mobs for X number of times (Not Fun) don't do it if its not fun. I see it as a easy way to obtain nice gear and get some xp and a chance to win even better gear. Quests - Goto location Z find item Y and then Kill X Number of mobs for X number of times (Not Fun) then quit MMOs in general cause all of them have these RvR (keep seige) - Vastly depends on server and sides, however this once again is ruled mainly by _ZERG_ size followed by number of higher _LEVEL_ players in said _ZERG_ and finally by the active guilds that cordinate said keep seiges. zerg size does make a difference but a good warband could easily down a bunch of disorganized idiots running like chickens with no heads. This is just how it is and always will be.
I truely hope Mythic plans something or has something in store for everyone, as it stands now post _LEVEL_ 22 is boaring, slow and very repetative and starting an ALT is even worse since you have to do the entire _SAME_ path all over again! Its bad enough the _LEVEL_ curve is huge and slow! you should probably just go back to whatever game you came from since its obvious this game isn't fun for you. Also, you'd have better luck posting in VN or warhammer alliance if you even hope to get a response from devs.
So a few thing Mythic has lied about; 1. RvR / PvP is ruled by Level (over) Gear (over) skill. No matter how good a player(s) is/are they CAN NOT compete against a group that out level(s) them by any means.
Whatever happened to strategy?
I really don't know why people continue to play these dumbed down games then come complain on forums.
RvR: Of course you are going to get owned if you run rvr with a pug group against veteran guilds with higher level toons. How could you expect anything else?
Obviously, the OP and others do expect to win and when they dont they blame the usual: gear, levels, exploits, blah, blah, blah... the same thing that I had been reading during years in most PvP games.
I agree 100% with you. My guild is divided in this moment... most are in T2, some in T1 and some in T3. I had toons in the 3 tiers.
Our T3 groups are around lvls 22 to 26... we won most scenarios unless we fight another guild grp, when things get even more fun... in that cases, depends a lot about the other team.
Anyway, people will QQ about levels and gears for a loooong time. Not much we can do hehe
Exactly. I can't count how many times a group of smaller level characters have simply run up to us and started wailing on us, being higher levels or mounted. I mean, use your brain. Hide - use your guards to screen you.
Or - *gasp* - use the collision detection to your advantage - that's why they put it in there, so you couldn't blow through a tank to get to the healer.
People are used to their gear saving them. Take off the shiny purples, put your brain back in and lets go at it.
1. RvR / PvP is ruled by Level (over) Gear (over) skill. No matter how good a player(s) is/are they CAN NOT compete against a group that out level(s) them by any means.
So, I guess it doesn't matter that your character is brought up to the current level of the zone in RvR, does it?
1. RvR / PvP is ruled by Level (over) Gear (over) skill. No matter how good a player(s) is/are they CAN NOT compete against a group that out level(s) them by any means.
So, I guess it doesn't matter that your character is brought up to the current level of the zone in RvR, does it?
We all know it does, but that is done in scenarios only. It doesn't give you the spells/skill or tactics and they do matter, which leaves the lower level a bit underdog. But once you have a group with you and you don't try to pwn solo, your skill matters more than few levels or gear.
Sabutai22 must be one of these enthusiast players like me, who want to win. I find myself whining over things when I lose, just to realize that I played like an idiot and try to improve next time.
It does it in RvR too on my server i assure you...my level stays the same but as i enter and the 10 second countdown ends i get a message saying that i have had my stats adjusted.
1. RvR / PvP is ruled by Level (over) Gear (over) skill. No matter how good a player(s) is/are they CAN NOT compete against a group that out level(s) them by any means. So for Mythic having said 60% Skill and 40% Gear is incorrect and false, its more like 80% Level, 19% Gear and 1% Skill (And Skill is debatable since the game will auto turn you if someone tried to stay out of your LoS, not much skill in that!) Gear also plays a huge role, Anyone that goes into Tier 2 Scenarios with their T1 Gear will not have enough DPS compared to those that are in Tier 2 (with the _LEVEL_ requirement) and their Tier 2 Weapons/Armor. 2. Empty Tier 3 Scenarios taking hours to que up, making anyone thats level 22 having to run PQ and Quests, this is a _HUGE_ boaring grind; PQ - Kills X number of mobs for X number of times (Not Fun) Quests - Goto location Z find item Y and then Kill X Number of mobs for X number of times (Not Fun) RvR (keep seige) - Vastly depends on server and sides, however this once again is ruled mainly by _ZERG_ size followed by number of higher _LEVEL_ players in said _ZERG_ and finally by the active guilds that cordinate said keep seiges.
I truely hope Mythic plans something or has something in store for everyone, as it stands now post _LEVEL_ 22 is boaring, slow and very repetative and starting an ALT is even worse since you have to do the entire _SAME_ path all over again! Its bad enough the _LEVEL_ curve is huge and slow!
Do you realize how utterly retarded you sound? First of all of course you have to quest some did you expect pvp the WHOLE entire time? Second of all when you roll an alt there is no way you follow the same path because there are a shitload of quests, there are alot of quests i actually skipped that when i make alts i know i will be doing so that claim is ridiculous... As far as RvR obviously if the other side has a massive ammount of fighters compared to your army you will lose... that is any game once again.
You are dumb.
----------------------------- Real as Reality Television!!!
1. RvR / PvP is ruled by Level (over) Gear (over) skill. No matter how good a player(s) is/are they CAN NOT compete against a group that out level(s) them by any means.
So, I guess it doesn't matter that your character is brought up to the current level of the zone in RvR, does it?
We all know it does, but that is done in scenarios only. It doesn't give you the spells/skill or tactics and they do matter, which leaves the lower level a bit underdog. But once you have a group with you and you don't try to pwn solo, your skill matters more than few levels or gear.
Sabutai22 must be one of these enthusiast players like me, who want to win. I find myself whining over things when I lose, just to realize that I played like an idiot and try to improve next time.
you friend are my sort of player.
you dont care if your the underdog you take it as a challenge! hope to meet you on the field sometime friend.
1) This is a team oriented game, not a one on one dueling system. I have seen a group of 5 Order in T1 work together and take all the objectives while out maneuvering and out smarting a Destro Zerg of 10. The more co-ordination you have, the better. Right now I see that as the defining detail than equipment/level or other factors of who wins or looses (barring 5 to 1 odds) You reduced the comparison to make gear the defining factor, which to be honest, is not how the game is going to be won.
2)Again, group based game. If you have not met a group of friends or joined a guild by T3, it is probably by choice. If you have managed to out level the average level of your server, then it might take some effort to get a group together for now. This should balence out as people get to level 40 and start making alts to hit the lower tiers to unlock the opposing city.
As for your grind factor in order to level, I do not see a certain question being asked. Have you travelled to your main city? There are quests for all levels there (not just 40s) Second is I seem to remember a pod cast that mentioned as you got higher in the tiers, the more the game shifts from Pve to PvP, so possibly the content is in the PvP areas more? (I have seen the shift starting in tier 2 already.)
And one thing to think about. Since this game is very dependant on working together as a group over a long time (capturing Keeps, lower levels ect.) People can and will have alts so they can hit what is needed at the lower levels of the game. The only tier I see as being too fast in tis respect is tier 1. The rest, you have a good amount of time to keep your alts there to participate in capturing the level if needed.
These are simply my views. I hope they help in some way. Have a good day.
The biggest problem I have seen is getting in a totaly unorganized scenario where everyone goes in different directions trying to single handedly win the scenario which ends in utter defeat.
I agree that gear and levels matter although it becomes less of any issue as you level up. I mean if you are lvl 2 and hop into a scenario you are far less effective then a lvl 10. However thats because you have a lack of any abilities and you have really bad gear. If you get to lvl 6 and do some PQs and get your character some skills it is way different you do contribute and you can kill people.
At higher tiers the issue is less. It is still some factor but not nearly as much as in tier one and it is still fun.
I so agree about the level part! I created my character and started with a scenario as soon as possibler. And oh my god, all those high level players killed me with no trouble at all. No skill needed, at all. Can you believe it? But to be honest, I think it will be over when the people reach level 40. Dont you agree?
Seriously, do you really believe that someone with a lower level could kill someone with a higher level? It is possible, but it is logical that a lower level has more trouble to kill a higher level player. And I dont think Mythic was talking about level 10 when they said 60% Skill and 40% Gear.
I don't know if this is exactly true.
I entered the scenario in the Shadowlands for the first time yesterday. I was lvl 13 (now 14) and I did extremely well! I was beyond surprised.
Thereafter, I noted that though I had difficulty taking down lvl 19's and lvl 20's I was no easy meat either. And, when playing in conjunction with your group (when that actually happens) you are far, far more effective.
So sure... going up against a group of organized lvl 19's and 20's was a tough pill, but in some cases, good gameplay would be the order of the day (no pun intended) and while we were holding off our better geared and higher leveled opponents, we had others trying to take their flags. We tied that one particular scenario.
But sure the lowest lvl player going up against the higher lvl player is going to have some difficulty.
So you knwo what I do? I go out and lvl and do PQ's and do scenarios and getter levels and gear. But perhaps I have a competitive spirit and take it all in stride.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Gylfi If you played UO you'd know there weren't any quests. And anarchy online didn't have them (they were randomly generated, taken in a steady terminal, no running from map to map and from npc to npc like an idiot. And planetside had no trace, and Neocron, and EVE.
Planetside had no quests as it had no PvE.
I dont know Neocron or UO personally.
EvE and Anarch Online both have very similar quest systems. You goto booth / mission giver.. they tell you to goto some place nearby at random.. kill mobs there or some subtle variation of that.. then return for reward.
How exactly is that different to the WoW style quests?
Get quest. Goto point x. Kill y mobs. Return. Reward.
All the same.
At least WAR tries something a little different with PQ's... its no solution to PvE tho. Lets face it PvE is generally quite dull in all games.
What really gets me is that youre here bashing WAR about its PvE not being the holy grail of PvE. That its no some amazing new innovative PvE experience - when WAR is one of few games which hasnt strongly sold itself on PvE.
Bash it for its PvP by all means.. but its PvE was never supposed to be revolutionary..
I have had no problem with leveling. Get quests, Get all 6 tier 3 scenarios. Takes me a few mins to get all of them. I always get one in 20mins or less. Last night did one and got another as the 1st ended. I did quest while waiting for scenarios and kept an eye on RvR area for action. Jumped in RvR twice and had a good time. Playing 3 to 4 hours a night, I make a level on good night and on bad nights takes me 2 nights. No problem here with leveling or the lack of diffrent things to do.
If you don't like a grind don't play an RPG. Is that hard concept?
As I said in another post complaing about grind in an MMORPG is like complaining that there is nothing to do in The Sims. You're missing the concept completely.
Comments
(gee you guys answer quick
)
You really mean to tell me that public quests (elite wow quests disguised) of kill collecting 30 or 50 of some mob are "good pve example" ?
And that ONE quest that's close to the giver is another one?
And that because it's a system completely dumbed down (the 100% chance of drop) for kids, being that we can't even figure the quest spot by ourselves we need the red blur on the map, they are forgiven for the fact that
they still keep on recycling the same old stinking levelling structure?
I've been told one of the tome quests revolving around a small tower in an abandonned field... a tome page unlocks and it's got 5 of those marks or quest objectives... you have to figure out how to enter, maybe the villagers nearby know something... that's COOL but it's like one over a million collect 20 boars' teeth then go back to the giver to go collect 30 bats' dicks.
I know people who proudly declare "i collect the things and then get killed by a critter so i respawn back to the Qgiver"
It's horrible!
the best blog of the net
So you complain that you have to kill a few mobs, then complain because it is a 100% drop rate? Lol, give me a break man. I see I've been trolled! Time to hit the sack, my previous replies should be enough for an objective observer to spot your trollage.
Hopefully one day you will realize how easy it is to criticize, yet how difficult it is to create. This is the first game in a long time where I've actually enjoyed most of the PvE, and I play the lowest DPS class in the game, along with being much more of a PvPer than PvEr if I had to pick.
That's a huge lie, you just don't know many MMO's
I never played damn Everquest (the one who started the whole shit engine), and i don't know if it had that kind of quests, but i first saw them in DAOC in a young form. But sure as hell WoW is the game that employed them as the real way to level and since then EVERY single mmo did it too. It's a fact.
If you played UO you'd know there weren't any quests. And anarchy online didn't have them (they were randomly generated, taken in a steady terminal, no running from map to map and from npc to npc like an idiot. And planetside had no trace, and Neocron, and EVE.
the best blog of the net
Why is it so strange? I complain about killing mobs because it works EXACTLY like WoW (not in a generic RP games way), and i complain that every kill drops the Q item because not only it's the same stinking system, but it reveals that it's been dumbed down, too. What i mean is sure you can keep the same quest structure, if you must, but at least make it smarter for mature people, not easier for lazy blokes. Make every quest completable in a way that relies on the class "talents" (fallout?), make it ethical(Jade Empire/Mass Effect?), give me a "karma" evaluation based on some interaction completeness (many adventure games of nineties like, say, King's Quest or the one in my signature, Robin Hood), like a "hidden solution of wit" (don't kill the poor spiders that hold the medicinal essence, the liquid's findable in a hidden bush cause the spiders drop it naturally [a notion learned from the tome].... or buy it off a wandering doctor)... instead no, it's a WoW quest in every way, AND it's dumbed down for kids with a 100% drop chance.
Sure, I agree with you, quests are way better than all the other WoW clones.. but you can't deny that the system is still exactly WoW's and that's the problem. They made a marketing choice and they decide to reuse the system... but after all WAR IS just marketing, it's a good attempt (maybe the best so far) to steal kids from WoW, and that can be obtained only by furthering the user-friendly / dumb-down process that WoW began 4 years ago (off Daoc).
And i didn't even mention the fact that i still enjoy quests more than the dull, flat RvR.
the best blog of the net
That's a huge lie, you just don't know many MMO's
I never played damn Everquest (the one who started the whole shit engine), and i don't know if it had that kind of quests, but i first saw them in DAOC in a young form. But sure as hell WoW is the game that employed them as the real way to level and since then EVERY single mmo did it too. It's a fact.
If you played UO you'd know there weren't any quests. And anarchy online didn't have them (they were randomly generated, taken in a steady terminal, no running from map to map and from npc to npc like an idiot. And planetside had no trace, and Neocron, and EVE.
What are you talking about? EVE has "quests," so does UO, AND Neocron.....
Perhaps you're thinking of skill advancement? Because skill advancement in all three of those games is TOTALLY not done like in WoW, WAR, EQ, etc. However....all of those games DO, indeed, have quests. It's just that quests ALONE are not how you "level." Well...in those games "leveling" is entirely different even. Heck in EVE you DON'T even "level", per say, and quests aren't CALLED "quests," but you do have things you do for rep, etc....and they're essentially "quests," just not implemented the same way as in WoW or EQ, etc.
So are you talking about the skill systems, or quests? Sorry...just didn't get what you were saying exactly.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I'm talking of:
seeing a guy with his blasted exclamation mark upon his head, right click him, read the quest description, see the rewards, push accept.
I'm not talking about a generic concept of quest. Ofc every game does have one. I'm talking of the above system taken EXACTLY AS IS in every mmo since wow (there was only daoc with it, as far as i know, but nobody levelled with those quests, there were few and unpleasant)
Heh ofc UO has quests, and AO's levelling system IS thru missions.
But for UO they were like 0.1% of the game (and it was one, escort some folk) and nobody would have considered levelling (in UO case skill % raising)... infact what am i saying? they just gave money !
And for AO, even tho they are infact the best way to level, They are provided entirely differently. They are randomly generated, all taken off terminals, you choose with a slide the level of difficulty, and they're all instanced. It's completely different from WoW system.
And I bet/hope Darkfall finally introduces a different levelling structure!
With this said i go kip and please play my signature "quest", everyone
the best blog of the net
I think you guys are confusing quest difficulty and quest time sinks.
if a mob drops a quest item you can go two routes, both equally easy.
1. make it 1 kill 1 drop
2. make the players grind on the mob for a while to aquire all the drops, some games have 1 drop per 5, others require much more grinding.
#2 is just add more time than #1 and works best for games where per kill xp is very very low.
Warhammer is about removing boring time sinks...aka grinding, more so than most games out there.
The whole point of warhammer is to be fun not time consuming.
So i disagree with the "omg they are dumming down quests because i dont have to grind on a mob for 45min to get all my drops" arguments. Go play any f2p asian grinder out there if you want a hard quest (by your definition) and go grind on amob for a few hours.
Personally i dont kind the "fetch" quests if i know i wont be camping out grinding for the next 45min to complete it.
For everyone asking for a revolutionary "quest system" that doesnt involve killing or fetching, i gurantee it wont be called a mmo.
I like the kill/fetch quests if theres a story behind it or a reason for me doing it. warhammer probides ample story and reason. Anyway its not like doing quests is the ONLY thing to do in game, there is plenty of ther means of progressing your character.
Actually, I see many, many people doing stupid things in PvP and getting themselves killed. That's skill for me. Sure, 1 on 1 is not skill based, but that was never the point, because the whole RvR is not centered around 1 on 1.
Regaining an RvR area, holding neuralgic points, defending or better, assaulting a keep, using siege units, using NPCs in your favor, is with no doubt mainly skillbased. Remember WoW BG, it was zerg-fest 2000, or LotRo, where you pretty much teamed up with as many people as possible to cut through the keep like a hot knive through butter. That's all pretty much not there in WAR... So if you're complaining that a 3 vs 3 in open field, which is pretty much pointless "lol PvP"-skirmishing, is gear based -> Agreed, but that's the difference between a PvP and a RvR approach.
And finding guys to RvR is a matter of population, not mechanics. Some servers have serious population problems, others don't, that's not mythics fault per se, though it's their responibility to regulate this in the near future.
Scenarios are NOT empty for me, that is heavily population based and if you play a dwarf for example on a usual Destruction-infested realm, you can play scenarios 24/7.
PvE was said to be "something to do when you need some change". It was crystal clear from the start that PvE would be 90% kill x amount of z.
Concerning stealth; they SAID there would be stealth, but not permanent stealth, they said that classes like the witch hunter and witch elf would not make sense if they could not be kind of rogueish. So no lies there...
I can only wonder what some of you made up in your minds with the information given. In my book, I've not encountered a single issue where Mythic has lied about game content or mechanics. If you didn't bother to inform yourselves with the tons and tons of podcasts and interviews at hand, well, that's your own fault...
M
Whatever happened to strategy?
I really don't know why people continue to play these dumbed down games then come complain on forums.
Obviously, the OP and others do expect to win and when they dont they blame the usual: gear, levels, exploits, blah, blah, blah... the same thing that I had been reading during years in most PvP games.
I agree 100% with you. My guild is divided in this moment... most are in T2, some in T1 and some in T3. I had toons in the 3 tiers.
Our T3 groups are around lvls 22 to 26... we won most scenarios unless we fight another guild grp, when things get even more fun... in that cases, depends a lot about the other team.
Anyway, people will QQ about levels and gears for a loooong time. Not much we can do hehe
Exactly. I can't count how many times a group of smaller level characters have simply run up to us and started wailing on us, being higher levels or mounted. I mean, use your brain. Hide - use your guards to screen you.
Or - *gasp* - use the collision detection to your advantage - that's why they put it in there, so you couldn't blow through a tank to get to the healer.
People are used to their gear saving them. Take off the shiny purples, put your brain back in and lets go at it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
/played: EQ, EQ II, DAoC, WoW, LoTRO, AoC, CoH/CoV, WAR, Aion, Tera, Wildstar and many others that don't merit listing
/playing: Clash of Clans, Hearthstone
So, I guess it doesn't matter that your character is brought up to the current level of the zone in RvR, does it?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
/played: EQ, EQ II, DAoC, WoW, LoTRO, AoC, CoH/CoV, WAR, Aion, Tera, Wildstar and many others that don't merit listing
/playing: Clash of Clans, Hearthstone
So, I guess it doesn't matter that your character is brought up to the current level of the zone in RvR, does it?
We all know it does, but that is done in scenarios only. It doesn't give you the spells/skill or tactics and they do matter, which leaves the lower level a bit underdog. But once you have a group with you and you don't try to pwn solo, your skill matters more than few levels or gear.
Sabutai22 must be one of these enthusiast players like me, who want to win. I find myself whining over things when I lose, just to realize that I played like an idiot and try to improve next time.
It does it in RvR too on my server i assure you...my level stays the same but as i enter and the 10 second countdown ends i get a message saying that i have had my stats adjusted.
Do you realize how utterly retarded you sound? First of all of course you have to quest some did you expect pvp the WHOLE entire time? Second of all when you roll an alt there is no way you follow the same path because there are a shitload of quests, there are alot of quests i actually skipped that when i make alts i know i will be doing so that claim is ridiculous... As far as RvR obviously if the other side has a massive ammount of fighters compared to your army you will lose... that is any game once again.
You are dumb.
-----------------------------
Real as Reality Television!!!
So, I guess it doesn't matter that your character is brought up to the current level of the zone in RvR, does it?
We all know it does, but that is done in scenarios only. It doesn't give you the spells/skill or tactics and they do matter, which leaves the lower level a bit underdog. But once you have a group with you and you don't try to pwn solo, your skill matters more than few levels or gear.
Sabutai22 must be one of these enthusiast players like me, who want to win. I find myself whining over things when I lose, just to realize that I played like an idiot and try to improve next time.
you friend are my sort of player.
you dont care if your the underdog you take it as a challenge! hope to meet you on the field sometime friend.
Alright, I'll bite and discuss this.
1) This is a team oriented game, not a one on one dueling system. I have seen a group of 5 Order in T1 work together and take all the objectives while out maneuvering and out smarting a Destro Zerg of 10. The more co-ordination you have, the better. Right now I see that as the defining detail than equipment/level or other factors of who wins or looses (barring 5 to 1 odds) You reduced the comparison to make gear the defining factor, which to be honest, is not how the game is going to be won.
2)Again, group based game. If you have not met a group of friends or joined a guild by T3, it is probably by choice. If you have managed to out level the average level of your server, then it might take some effort to get a group together for now. This should balence out as people get to level 40 and start making alts to hit the lower tiers to unlock the opposing city.
As for your grind factor in order to level, I do not see a certain question being asked. Have you travelled to your main city? There are quests for all levels there (not just 40s) Second is I seem to remember a pod cast that mentioned as you got higher in the tiers, the more the game shifts from Pve to PvP, so possibly the content is in the PvP areas more? (I have seen the shift starting in tier 2 already.)
And one thing to think about. Since this game is very dependant on working together as a group over a long time (capturing Keeps, lower levels ect.) People can and will have alts so they can hit what is needed at the lower levels of the game. The only tier I see as being too fast in tis respect is tier 1. The rest, you have a good amount of time to keep your alts there to participate in capturing the level if needed.
These are simply my views. I hope they help in some way. Have a good day.
Team work goes along way in this game.
The biggest problem I have seen is getting in a totaly unorganized scenario where everyone goes in different directions trying to single handedly win the scenario which ends in utter defeat.
I agree that gear and levels matter although it becomes less of any issue as you level up. I mean if you are lvl 2 and hop into a scenario you are far less effective then a lvl 10. However thats because you have a lack of any abilities and you have really bad gear. If you get to lvl 6 and do some PQs and get your character some skills it is way different you do contribute and you can kill people.
At higher tiers the issue is less. It is still some factor but not nearly as much as in tier one and it is still fun.
---
Ethion
I don't know if this is exactly true.
I entered the scenario in the Shadowlands for the first time yesterday. I was lvl 13 (now 14) and I did extremely well! I was beyond surprised.
Thereafter, I noted that though I had difficulty taking down lvl 19's and lvl 20's I was no easy meat either. And, when playing in conjunction with your group (when that actually happens) you are far, far more effective.
So sure... going up against a group of organized lvl 19's and 20's was a tough pill, but in some cases, good gameplay would be the order of the day (no pun intended) and while we were holding off our better geared and higher leveled opponents, we had others trying to take their flags. We tied that one particular scenario.
But sure the lowest lvl player going up against the higher lvl player is going to have some difficulty.
So you knwo what I do? I go out and lvl and do PQ's and do scenarios and getter levels and gear. But perhaps I have a competitive spirit and take it all in stride.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Planetside had no quests as it had no PvE.
I dont know Neocron or UO personally.
EvE and Anarch Online both have very similar quest systems. You goto booth / mission giver.. they tell you to goto some place nearby at random.. kill mobs there or some subtle variation of that.. then return for reward.
How exactly is that different to the WoW style quests?
Get quest. Goto point x. Kill y mobs. Return. Reward.
All the same.
At least WAR tries something a little different with PQ's... its no solution to PvE tho. Lets face it PvE is generally quite dull in all games.
What really gets me is that youre here bashing WAR about its PvE not being the holy grail of PvE. That its no some amazing new innovative PvE experience - when WAR is one of few games which hasnt strongly sold itself on PvE.
Bash it for its PvP by all means.. but its PvE was never supposed to be revolutionary..
I have had no problem with leveling. Get quests, Get all 6 tier 3 scenarios. Takes me a few mins to get all of them. I always get one in 20mins or less. Last night did one and got another as the 1st ended. I did quest while waiting for scenarios and kept an eye on RvR area for action. Jumped in RvR twice and had a good time. Playing 3 to 4 hours a night, I make a level on good night and on bad nights takes me 2 nights. No problem here with leveling or the lack of diffrent things to do.
If you don't like a grind don't play an RPG. Is that hard concept?
As I said in another post complaing about grind in an MMORPG is like complaining that there is nothing to do in The Sims. You're missing the concept completely.