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why won't Obama just turn over his birth records to the court?
deviliscious
Member UncommonPosts: 4,359
Okay so we all thought this case would be cut and dry.. Judge orderd Obamas birth records, he turns them over at least the case is half over right? The he would just have to prove whether or not he needed to regain citizenship after going to school in Indonesia. Either way it would prove he was a natural born citizen and at least that part would be over with. But Noo he files for a protective order of discovery, an attempt to block the courts from viewing his actual birth records, which makes no sense if those birth certificates he was showing online were actually real. So anyone know why he just won't have this validated by the courts? I mean when McCains citizenship was questioned he gave the courts his birth records they proved him a US citizen case closed, pretty simple. It is not like this is just going to go away. If they dismiss the case brought by the democrat, the republicans are just going to file a new one. There are already more people attempting to file already.
Berg v. Obama, No. 08-cv-04083. Citizenship case still in court
Obama Born In Kenya? His Grandmother Says Yes
DNC steps in to silence lawsuit over Obama birth certificate
Does Barack Obama have Kenyan citizenship?
"No. He held both U.S. and Kenyan citizenship as a child, but lost his Kenyan citizenship automatically on his 21st birthday."
www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html
Obama's early education
www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2007/01/22/vause.obama.school.cnn
Obama Hawaii investigation moves into high gear with lawsuit seeking release of birth records
www.pr-inside.com/obama-hawaii-investigation-moves-into-r868210.htm
Comments
Yeah, i dont know why in the hell some shitheads are going to vote for someone that clearly is breaking a u.s. rule since day one in america.
I think that the Democrats might actually be trying to ride Obama into office and then have Biden take over.
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Could be.
Personaly Biden and mccain are too old for office imo.
Could be.
Personaly Biden and mccain are too old for office imo.
Yes but then Biden gets to select his VP instead of having it on the ticket. Maybe Biden selects Clinton and in 2012 we have VP Clinton running for relection and Biden dropping out due to his age.
Who knows. The fact remains that this should be an extremely simple matter. All Obama needs to due is send a certified legal copy of his certificate to Fox News and tell them to post it. ( I say fox news because then any far right wingers can't claim its the Liberal Media helping him by posting a fake).
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Yea it should be a simple matter, though I am wondering why the media isn;t all over this, I mean if it was ANYONE else they would be swarming like flies!
Though I don;t think he should be sending birth records anywhere but the courts. The judge hasn't seen the evidence. Sending to media is not where this belongs, it belongs in the court. It needs to be examined by real experts. The bigger question remains though is if factcheck.org states he had "dual citizenship in Kenya and the US while he was a child" how did he go to Indonesian schools when their law stated that it did not support dual citizenship and that he had to renounce all other citizenships in order to go to school there. If this is true would he not have to regain citizenship in the US and live here for 14 years after doing so to be eligable for office?
I could care less where he was born, I'm still not voting for McCain. Both of them voted for the corporate overlord bailout so neither is getting my vote. Nothing will scare me into voting for these corporate sympathizers. America first? Please...
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html
There, his birth certificate. Lets kill these crazy conspiracy theories now.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
We don't have anyone that puts america first that even has a chance at winning this election =(. It is depressing. Though we should care what the constitution states about who is eligible to be president, it is there for a reason, it is for our own protection. Otherwise we can just had our country over to a foreign power that is not looking out for american interests at all. ( though it seems these days with the 2 party system that has already been happeneing). I do think the constitution should be upheld, it is all we have to protect us.
We don't have anyone that puts america first that even has a chance at winning this election =(. It is depressing. Though we should care what the constitution states about who is eligible to be president, it is there for a reason, it is for our own protection. Otherwise we can just had our country over to a foreign power that is not looking out for american interests at all. ( though it seems these days with the 2 party system that has already been happeneing). I do think the constitution should be upheld, it is all we have to protect us.
If someones mother is an American citizen what does that make their children?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
apparently you have not read anything in this thread.
read the court case, the motions that have been filed. The "vault certificate" has been ordered by the judge, Obama has filed an attempt to block it. What the washington post ahs on this has no bearing on this case. There are not crazy conspiracy theories here, just facts. They have already had experts stating that the 2 differnt certifcates presented online were forgeries, they want to view the actual. WHy was their 2 differnt certificates if he actually had a real one?
If someones mother is an American citizen what does that make their children?
Not in all cases. If they renounced their citizenship, no it does not. At the time of Obamas birth as well stated that you ahd to be over a ceratin age for this to apply and his mother was younger than that age. SO I am not sure how all of that will play out here. There are things that can remove your citizenship, and he happens to have a lot of them lol.
If someones mother is an American citizen what does that make their children?
Not in all cases. If they renounced their citizenship, no it does not. At the time of Obamas birth as well stated that you ahd to be over a ceratin age for this to apply and his mother was younger than that age. SO I am not sure how all of that will play out here. There are things that can remove your citizenship, and he happens to have a lot of them lol.
I guess you have your work cut out for you.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I guess you have your work cut out for you.
Me? Lol .. I am glad I am not the one sorting this mess out! I mean the people that have to look into this mess, have to go through Kenyan records, Indonseian records, Hawaiian records, Laws in place at the time .. Does this mean they get paid vacations all over the world in these countries to get to solve this? lmao!
I guess you have your work cut out for you.
Me? Lol .. I am glad I am not the one sorting this mess out! I mean the people that have to look into this mess, have to go through Kenyan records, Indonseian records, Hawaiian records, Laws in place at the time .. Does this mean they get paid vacations all over the world in these countries to get to solve this? lmao!
Heh sounds like a euro trip. Got a passport secret agent woman?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I guess you have your work cut out for you.
Me? Lol .. I am glad I am not the one sorting this mess out! I mean the people that have to look into this mess, have to go through Kenyan records, Indonseian records, Hawaiian records, Laws in place at the time .. Does this mean they get paid vacations all over the world in these countries to get to solve this? lmao!
Heh sounds like a euro trip. Got a passport secret agent woman?
Yes I do .. but my vacation will not be in any of those places ! lol The next trip I take will be to New Zealand .. It is really beautiful there
We don't have anyone that puts america first that even has a chance at winning this election =(. It is depressing. Though we should care what the constitution states about who is eligible to be president, it is there for a reason, it is for our own protection. Otherwise we can just had our country over to a foreign power that is not looking out for american interests at all. ( though it seems these days with the 2 party system that has already been happeneing). I do think the constitution should be upheld, it is all we have to protect us.
If someones mother is an American citizen what does that make their children?
Both parents must be US citizens for the child to obtain US citizenship if born outside of the US.
You know, this is the kind of crap that should have been sorted out long ago. Let's say that Hussein there is actually hiding something. All of a sudden, either right before or right after the election, we have a candidate that is not actually legally able to become president, and who committed a felony to hide it. If I were a leader among the Democrats, I would have put a massive amount of pressure on Barrack to get this resolved one way or the other long ago. As it stands, the ball is and will remain in Republican hands so long as his citizenship is in question.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
You really need to read before you speak, this whole mess started with experts alleging that that document is a forgery.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Are people really this ignorant?
1) Natural Born
Even if Barack was born in Kenya, he would still be a US citizen just like John McCain that was born in Panama. If people would constitutionally challenge Barack's citizenship, the court would side with Obama, just as they would with McCain. The only reason this has never been tested or legislatively adjusted is this is first time candidates would be born outside the border, which Barack was NOT.
His mother was a full US citizen; hence, 'jus sanguinis' prevails, and makes him a full US citizen as there would be no further question of where he was born, which is what the constitution tests regarding this are designed to do. Bottom Line: Blood > Place of Birth if your parent is a US Citizen.
(If anyone still does not get this, go look up the constitutional findings of Patrick Leahy, Tom Coburn, Lawrence Tribe, and Theodore Olsen that specifically looked at this regarding both Barack and McCain - NOTICE the conservative names and these are constitutional experts, not just legislators.)
2) Dual Citizenship
Even if Obama ever had Kenya citizenship, it would have been invalidated when he became an adult, as Kenya does not allow dual citizenship and is law the US State Department DOES recognize, there is no legal precedent to not recognize Kenya citizenship laws and force a US Citizen to be a dual citizen when they never requested it nor the original country would recognize it.
3) Born in Kenya
Ok, this has been refuted many times, but even if proof did exist that he was born in Kenya, this would only invalidate 'jus soli', and 'jus sanguinis' would prevail, again, just as it would if McCain was challenged.
Why is the media not all over this? Because it has been refuted and is laughable at best. Why isn't McCain making this case? Because the same argument could be brought against him, especially if it is proven Barack was born in the US, as then McCain is the only one not natural-born as the crazy right wants to try to use against Barack.
We don't have to be legal constitutional experts (like Barack actually is) to understand this, we can simply look to the virtually every constitutional expert as well as the Leahy/Olsen review of this issue that firmly disagrees with ALL arguments that would try to discredit either McCain or Barack.
People act like a legal lawsuit gives this story credibility, but I could file a lawsuit challenging the mental capacity of George W. Bush, it doesn't mean it would get anywhere, make it true, or get him committed or removed from office.
Heck, we can even see the birth records ourselves, here is a start:
http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate
Additional notes, this is a myth, and originally started with claims that Hawaii was not a state when Barack was born (Wrong), then the rumor found an obscure law regarding age and claimed that his mother's age had relevance (Wrong). The next step was people claiming he was then born in Kenya, even though Hawaii birth records seem to contradict these claims easily.
It will be ignored if Democrats get a super majority like they're hoping for. At that time, the rule of law means NOTHING. And it never will mean anything again. When that happens, goodbye ms. american pie.
Can you smell it? That heady pong? A mixture of desperation and stupidity.
You really need to read before you speak, this whole mess started with experts alleging that that document is a forgery.
LOL! you know that is the socially groomed "automatic response" for any allegations of Obamas citizenship. I have yet to hear any response to this cout case other than that, nothing.. The judge ordered the vault documents, but the automatic response is always the same " view this piece of paper that has not been valifdated by the courts instead" . Indonesian law stated he had to renounce his citizenship, show where Obama regained citizenship : " view this piece of paper that has not been valifdated by the courts instead" . Factcheck.org said that he had dual citizenship in keyna and US as a child : " view this piece of paper that has not been valifdated by the courts instead" .
It never changes. It is always the same response, regardless of the question. I find it entertaining though.
where is him being a citizen on Indonseia mentioned in here at all? That is what this case is about not his kenayn citizenship! lmao! Show me where he regained citizenship to the US after attending schools in Indonesia. Like i said before no matter the question the answer is always the same " view this piece of paper that has not been valifdated by the courts instead" .
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This case was filed by a democrat, who does not want McCain elected either ... it was filed against not only Obama but the DNC. If this case gets dismissed there are more people, filing already so it would be in Obamas best interests to just show his records prove himself a citizen in the courts and get this over with. Instead he is attmpting to block the courts from viewing his records. If there is no problem with his records why did he file for a "protective order of discovery " to prevent the courts from viewing them?