So let me get this straight; there is officially 4 different kinds of armor essentially: PvE- From Influence (normal) PvE- From Loot (normal) PvE- For Raid Content Only (specific mobs only) PvP- From Reknown (normal)
I see options. What do you see?
There are more than that
PvE - Influence: guarantee items - only 3 per chapters
PvE - PQ chest
PvE - World drop
PvE - Raid boss
PvP - Reknown purchase: guarantee Item
PvP - Player drop
PvP - Keep lord
PvP - Boss (King, city sub-boss...)
There are PvP influence comming too.
None of these items are required for anything. They are just rewards for different activites.
Actually, what this all means is that if you RvR alot ( as in keep sieges ), you can have great gear which will work in PvE too ...
The wards are for PvE and RvR bosses ( Keep lords are RvR, you are totally dumb to say otherwise and never played DAoC, or just talking BS )
This means that the wards dont give you a bonus vs other players, which is a pretty good thing to do. Cause this means the RvR players with the best Set can still be beaten.
All in all, I think it is pretty good stuff.
And again, if you don't like keep raids, which require you to kill players ( the lords are just there so people can rally up to defend ), then you picked the wrong game and please give me your stuff on the way out, kthxbye.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Actually raiding is NOT required in the game. Even if you go as far as deeming items from bastion stair and lost vale indispensible (which is plain false, but doomsayers and trolls won't manage to see an inch out from their nose), they are NOT raid encounters.
You CAN play in them in a warband, if you like, due to the fact that they're mostly PQs, but there's absolutely NO fixed number of people you NEED to complete them. You can go in there and complete them with a normal 6 men group (and final bosses are strictly 6 men encounters), making them much easier to organize and much less stressful than wow-like raids.
Also, Items you earn from them won't influence your RVR performance, as the only thing they provide over PvP earned items are PvE-only wards.As such they are completely unneeded to enjoy RvR.
Actually, what this all means is that if you RvR alot ( as in keep sieges ), you can have great gear which will work in PvE too ... The wards are for PvE and RvR bosses ( Keep lords are RvR, you are totally dumb to say otherwise and never played DAoC, or just talking BS ) This means that the wards dont give you a bonus vs other players, which is a pretty good thing to do. Cause this means the RvR players with the best Set can still be beaten. All in all, I think it is pretty good stuff. And again, if you don't like keep raids, which require you to kill players ( the lords are just there so people can rally up to defend ), then you picked the wrong game and please give me your stuff on the way out, kthxbye.
Actually I don't see where the raid gear bonuses apply to normal pve or pvp.
All I see is if you have blahblah raid armor pieces (5) you can get a total of 50% mitigation against ABC raid boss. If you fight a normal npc or a player the bonuses do not apply.
Forced progression is what mythic told us we would not have, or at least not have in terms of being required to play in aspects of the game we do not like. For myself i purchased this game because frankly i was tired of the mindless grind that most mmo's turn into. Sadly it appears that mythic cant step away from forced progression grinds , turning this game into a treadmill , while its not even 2 months old.
Here is what a night on volkmar consists of:
a. join scenarios when your guild isnt online
b. clear bastion stair, tunnels, bilerot or whatever locale your farming for gear nightly
c. go capture non contested BFO's & keeps for RR rank, while avoiding contested areas. order and destruction play musical zones at the moment rather then fight.
I want to play a game where RVR actually occurs instead of a staged event between bored guilds or realms. This forced progression due to itemization was bad enough from 1-40, frankly i cant stomach the thought of being forced to grind mind numbing pve content treadmills in yet another game to pvp with.
Itemization was bad enough without putting wards on gear to force content progression, these changes just eliminate open world rvr completely from the game. what guild is going to bother to Open world rvr, when progression requires you to PVE daily to get anywhere.
Gear treadmills like this would be fine, if, and only if, the gear was *relatively* easy to come by.
By relatively easy i mean this. Yes, you would need a full warband or 2 to kill the mobs that drop it. But instead of this craptastic flawed PQ system, where you could actually kill a keep lord and not even have a purple bag drop, much less a gold, they need to start guaranteeing a certain number of each type of bag, as well as make it scale based on warband size.
So, my opinon, for a 24 person warband, >high< chance of gold bag (but not 100%), guaranteed 2x purple bags, at least 4x blue bags, random number of greens.
Looks like the OP can't refute anything that the people who disagree with him have posted. I wish people like him would stop spreading disinformation. I am leery of people who put 'epic fail' in their thread titles like he did in another thread on these forums.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
first off your an idiot, there is no raiding in WaR only PvP warbands, secondly those sets are from 6 MAN dungeons and their counterparts from PVP, third and last the only reason you may want to get any of the pve sets is if u wanna take part in doing dungeons, doesnt mean u have too. The instances themselves only take 30mins to 1hr to complete since they are really really short, and once u get the gear from them its makes it even easier to do, since they grant u wards which help u defends against the dmg that Dungeons mobs do
Wow...so... I was gonna keep playing WAR when I got back to America from my travels but AoC is sounding much more appealing... I never got my PvP epics in WoW just so that I could do end-game raids...Im scarred for life...
AoC has actual real forced raiding....if WoW epics scared you why go to a game thats got 24+ main PvE raids that have requirements that yes you have to do dungeon set 1 to do dungeon set 2 and most of the good pvp stuff isn't available until nearly lvl 40 or higher and its pretty much only fun for guilds who can afford to build their lil instance cities.
first off your an idiot, there is no raiding in WaR only PvP warbands, secondly those sets are from 6 MAN dungeons and their counterparts from PVP, third and last the only reason you may want to get any of the pve sets is if u wanna take part in doing dungeons, doesnt mean u have too. The instances themselves only take 30mins to 1hr to complete since they are really really short, and once u get the gear from them its makes it even easier to do, since they grant u wards which help u defends against the dmg that Dungeons mobs do
whatever, this is not really guild pveif anything its ANTI-GUILD. Dont believe me fine, wait till your guild starts entering into that treadmill and your guild starts getting divided up into A team B team C team and then come back and tell me everything is rosy.
this PvE system does not promote guild PvE and to me that makes it fail at least give us a 12 man.
you know what's sad too is the way the harder instances are divided, if you do not have an exact 2:2:2 for dps/tanks/healers who are wanting to devote time to complete the instances, you're going to have a lot of people in your guild getting screwed or just not completing the content.
The lockout only amplifies it as you cannot have a tank backup tank for a group who is down a tank or a healer, whatever...
Lockouts are archaic and shouldn't be on this content.
It's not a matter of time since launch, it's a matter of going back on what was initially the premiere selling points of the game in order to make it more mass market friendly. All games change, and not always for the better. But heres the deal, most don't make drastic "vision" changes in that first month. And that's what we are seeing here. PvE to PvP. One of the key tenets of what was going to make this game different from WoW.
So it doesn't matter that other developers deliver uneven game experiences.
What matters is that for many people, the exact reasons they came to this game are slowly being taken away from them. Mythic is stretching itself too thin, trying to please too many disparate crowds, and that's not a good plan, unless they have the billion dollars necessary (though Jacobs thinks he could do it with $500m, so who knows).
first off your an idiot, there is no raiding in WaR only PvP warbands, secondly those sets are from 6 MAN dungeons and their counterparts from PVP, third and last the only reason you may want to get any of the pve sets is if u wanna take part in doing dungeons, doesnt mean u have too. The instances themselves only take 30mins to 1hr to complete since they are really really short, and once u get the gear from them its makes it even easier to do, since they grant u wards which help u defends against the dmg that Dungeons mobs do
whatever, this is not really guild pveif anything its ANTI-GUILD. Dont believe me fine, wait till your guild starts entering into that treadmill and your guild starts getting divided up into A team B team C team and then come back and tell me everything is rosy.
this PvE system does not promote guild PvE and to me that makes it fail at least give us a 12 man.
you know what's sad too is the way the harder instances are divided, if you do not have an exact 2:2:2 for dps/tanks/healers who are wanting to devote time to complete the instances, you're going to have a lot of people in your guild getting screwed or just not completing the content.
The lockout only amplifies it as you cannot have a tank backup tank for a group who is down a tank or a healer, whatever...
Lockouts are archaic and shouldn't be on this content.
It's not a matter of time since launch, it's a matter of going back on what was initially the premiere selling points of the game in order to make it more mass market friendly. All games change, and not always for the better. But heres the deal, most don't make drastic "vision" changes in that first month. And that's what we are seeing here. PvE to PvP. One of the key tenets of what was going to make this game different from WoW.
So it doesn't matter that other developers deliver uneven game experiences.
What matters is that for many people, the exact reasons they came to this game are slowly being taken away from them. Mythic is stretching itself too thin, trying to please too many disparate crowds, and that's not a good plan, unless they have the billion dollars necessary (though Jacobs thinks he could do it with $500m, so who knows).
You are creepy...
First you gripe about "forced raiding" and when faced with a reply that all the top PvE dungeon ecounters are 6-man you reccommend introduction of 12+ mans..
What is wrong with your logic I ask you?
Oh I get it. Since you so desperatly want WAR to fail you would introduce PvE raiding even if there isn't any just so you could moan and troll about it.
"WAR has no PvE raiding but it SHOULD have to prove that it is a bad game, like I claim it is."
So... PvE raiding is a "fail" but not having PvE raiding is a "fail" as well. What is it going to be my fine feathered troll? Hmm?
As a guy who's having tons of fun in RvR up to this date, I agree that the fact that PvE gear is more easily attainable than PvP gear up to the sentinel level (how often will you get good rolls on fotress lords eh?).
(At the annihilator level its still semi fine.)
Having to PvE in this game to get anything vs RvR is just silly in an RvR centric game.
How you gonna get ur RvR set gear when you have to roll against tons of people in raids
of fortresses that rarely happen?
This combined with the fact that the gear pretty much sucks ass right now.
(+ weaponskill for casters? +willpower for tanks?)
I mean even a very basic knowledge of itemisation or a little common sense would tell people these
stats do not belong on hard earned set gear for these classes.
You have to take keeps (PQ) and get a massive bag to get the chest to drop. The Shoulders are a BOP random drop which is extremely rare to get. Boots are BOE and Gloves are buyable from a merchant. Running a PQ all day to get the gear sounds like PvE to me.
Yes, I am R40 and have 3/5 set peices for my Lesser Ward set (from BS). I ran Bile and Blood as well. To run Bile/Blood, everyone needs to have atleast 2 peices or you will get killed, very quickly.
The gear progression and endgame content is a joke to say the least. Having to have the previous tier to complete the next is an even bigger joke.
Before you said gear only from pve. but now you say it can be from pvp. Your words don't add up.
Comments
So let me get this straight; there is officially 4 different kinds of armor essentially:
PvE- From Influence (normal)
PvE- From Loot (normal)
PvE- For Raid Content Only (specific mobs only)
PvP- From Reknown (normal)
I see options. What do you see?
There are more than that
PvE - Influence: guarantee items - only 3 per chapters
PvE - PQ chest
PvE - World drop
PvE - Raid boss
PvP - Reknown purchase: guarantee Item
PvP - Player drop
PvP - Keep lord
PvP - Boss (King, city sub-boss...)
There are PvP influence comming too.
None of these items are required for anything. They are just rewards for different activites.
Actually, what this all means is that if you RvR alot ( as in keep sieges ), you can have great gear which will work in PvE too ...
The wards are for PvE and RvR bosses ( Keep lords are RvR, you are totally dumb to say otherwise and never played DAoC, or just talking BS )
This means that the wards dont give you a bonus vs other players, which is a pretty good thing to do. Cause this means the RvR players with the best Set can still be beaten.
All in all, I think it is pretty good stuff.
And again, if you don't like keep raids, which require you to kill players ( the lords are just there so people can rally up to defend ), then you picked the wrong game and please give me your stuff on the way out, kthxbye.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Actually raiding is NOT required in the game. Even if you go as far as deeming items from bastion stair and lost vale indispensible (which is plain false, but doomsayers and trolls won't manage to see an inch out from their nose), they are NOT raid encounters.
You CAN play in them in a warband, if you like, due to the fact that they're mostly PQs, but there's absolutely NO fixed number of people you NEED to complete them. You can go in there and complete them with a normal 6 men group (and final bosses are strictly 6 men encounters), making them much easier to organize and much less stressful than wow-like raids.
Also, Items you earn from them won't influence your RVR performance, as the only thing they provide over PvP earned items are PvE-only wards.As such they are completely unneeded to enjoy RvR.
Less trolling, more facts.
Actually I don't see where the raid gear bonuses apply to normal pve or pvp.
All I see is if you have blahblah raid armor pieces (5) you can get a total of 50% mitigation against ABC raid boss. If you fight a normal npc or a player the bonuses do not apply.
Forced progression is what mythic told us we would not have, or at least not have in terms of being required to play in aspects of the game we do not like. For myself i purchased this game because frankly i was tired of the mindless grind that most mmo's turn into. Sadly it appears that mythic cant step away from forced progression grinds , turning this game into a treadmill , while its not even 2 months old.
Here is what a night on volkmar consists of:
a. join scenarios when your guild isnt online
b. clear bastion stair, tunnels, bilerot or whatever locale your farming for gear nightly
c. go capture non contested BFO's & keeps for RR rank, while avoiding contested areas. order and destruction play musical zones at the moment rather then fight.
I want to play a game where RVR actually occurs instead of a staged event between bored guilds or realms. This forced progression due to itemization was bad enough from 1-40, frankly i cant stomach the thought of being forced to grind mind numbing pve content treadmills in yet another game to pvp with.
Itemization was bad enough without putting wards on gear to force content progression, these changes just eliminate open world rvr completely from the game. what guild is going to bother to Open world rvr, when progression requires you to PVE daily to get anywhere.
Gear treadmills like this would be fine, if, and only if, the gear was *relatively* easy to come by.
By relatively easy i mean this. Yes, you would need a full warband or 2 to kill the mobs that drop it. But instead of this craptastic flawed PQ system, where you could actually kill a keep lord and not even have a purple bag drop, much less a gold, they need to start guaranteeing a certain number of each type of bag, as well as make it scale based on warband size.
So, my opinon, for a 24 person warband, >high< chance of gold bag (but not 100%), guaranteed 2x purple bags, at least 4x blue bags, random number of greens.
Looks like the OP can't refute anything that the people who disagree with him have posted. I wish people like him would stop spreading disinformation. I am leery of people who put 'epic fail' in their thread titles like he did in another thread on these forums.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
first off your an idiot, there is no raiding in WaR only PvP warbands, secondly those sets are from 6 MAN dungeons and their counterparts from PVP, third and last the only reason you may want to get any of the pve sets is if u wanna take part in doing dungeons, doesnt mean u have too. The instances themselves only take 30mins to 1hr to complete since they are really really short, and once u get the gear from them its makes it even easier to do, since they grant u wards which help u defends against the dmg that Dungeons mobs do
Wow...so...
I was gonna keep playing WAR when I got back to America from my travels but AoC is sounding much more appealing...
I never got my PvP epics in WoW just so that I could do end-game raids...Im scarred for life...
AoC has actual real forced raiding....if WoW epics scared you why go to a game thats got 24+ main PvE raids that have requirements that yes you have to do dungeon set 1 to do dungeon set 2 and most of the good pvp stuff isn't available until nearly lvl 40 or higher and its pretty much only fun for guilds who can afford to build their lil instance cities.
whatever, this is not really guild pveif anything its ANTI-GUILD. Dont believe me fine, wait till your guild starts entering into that treadmill and your guild starts getting divided up into A team B team C team and then come back and tell me everything is rosy.
this PvE system does not promote guild PvE and to me that makes it fail at least give us a 12 man.
you know what's sad too is the way the harder instances are divided, if you do not have an exact 2:2:2 for dps/tanks/healers who are wanting to devote time to complete the instances, you're going to have a lot of people in your guild getting screwed or just not completing the content.
The lockout only amplifies it as you cannot have a tank backup tank for a group who is down a tank or a healer, whatever...
Lockouts are archaic and shouldn't be on this content.
It's not a matter of time since launch, it's a matter of going back on what was initially the premiere selling points of the game in order to make it more mass market friendly. All games change, and not always for the better. But heres the deal, most don't make drastic "vision" changes in that first month. And that's what we are seeing here. PvE to PvP. One of the key tenets of what was going to make this game different from WoW.
So it doesn't matter that other developers deliver uneven game experiences.
What matters is that for many people, the exact reasons they came to this game are slowly being taken away from them. Mythic is stretching itself too thin, trying to please too many disparate crowds, and that's not a good plan, unless they have the billion dollars necessary (though Jacobs thinks he could do it with $500m, so who knows).
whatever, this is not really guild pveif anything its ANTI-GUILD. Dont believe me fine, wait till your guild starts entering into that treadmill and your guild starts getting divided up into A team B team C team and then come back and tell me everything is rosy.
this PvE system does not promote guild PvE and to me that makes it fail at least give us a 12 man.
you know what's sad too is the way the harder instances are divided, if you do not have an exact 2:2:2 for dps/tanks/healers who are wanting to devote time to complete the instances, you're going to have a lot of people in your guild getting screwed or just not completing the content.
The lockout only amplifies it as you cannot have a tank backup tank for a group who is down a tank or a healer, whatever...
Lockouts are archaic and shouldn't be on this content.
It's not a matter of time since launch, it's a matter of going back on what was initially the premiere selling points of the game in order to make it more mass market friendly. All games change, and not always for the better. But heres the deal, most don't make drastic "vision" changes in that first month. And that's what we are seeing here. PvE to PvP. One of the key tenets of what was going to make this game different from WoW.
So it doesn't matter that other developers deliver uneven game experiences.
What matters is that for many people, the exact reasons they came to this game are slowly being taken away from them. Mythic is stretching itself too thin, trying to please too many disparate crowds, and that's not a good plan, unless they have the billion dollars necessary (though Jacobs thinks he could do it with $500m, so who knows).
You are creepy...
First you gripe about "forced raiding" and when faced with a reply that all the top PvE dungeon ecounters are 6-man you reccommend introduction of 12+ mans..
What is wrong with your logic I ask you?
Oh I get it. Since you so desperatly want WAR to fail you would introduce PvE raiding even if there isn't any just so you could moan and troll about it.
"WAR has no PvE raiding but it SHOULD have to prove that it is a bad game, like I claim it is."
So... PvE raiding is a "fail" but not having PvE raiding is a "fail" as well. What is it going to be my fine feathered troll? Hmm?
Despicable and pathetic, sorry to say.
Don't forget this, you believed it.
As a guy who's having tons of fun in RvR up to this date, I agree that the fact that PvE gear is more easily attainable than PvP gear up to the sentinel level (how often will you get good rolls on fotress lords eh?).
(At the annihilator level its still semi fine.)
Having to PvE in this game to get anything vs RvR is just silly in an RvR centric game.
How you gonna get ur RvR set gear when you have to roll against tons of people in raids
of fortresses that rarely happen?
This combined with the fact that the gear pretty much sucks ass right now.
(+ weaponskill for casters? +willpower for tanks?)
I mean even a very basic knowledge of itemisation or a little common sense would tell people these
stats do not belong on hard earned set gear for these classes.
You have to take keeps (PQ) and get a massive bag to get the chest to drop. The Shoulders are a BOP random drop which is extremely rare to get. Boots are BOE and Gloves are buyable from a merchant. Running a PQ all day to get the gear sounds like PvE to me.
Yes, I am R40 and have 3/5 set peices for my Lesser Ward set (from BS). I ran Bile and Blood as well. To run Bile/Blood, everyone needs to have atleast 2 peices or you will get killed, very quickly.
The gear progression and endgame content is a joke to say the least. Having to have the previous tier to complete the next is an even bigger joke.
Before you said gear only from pve. but now you say it can be from pvp. Your words don't add up.