Hmmm WOW has a big population base,and don't see much of a death penalty. In fact on insta runs a whole group can be summoned back after a wipe, now if that isn't considered carebear i don't know what is. So many WOW players and employees are trying very hard to make sure WH does not succeed.I really don't see a need for a rvr death penalty. The fact that u died and your grp lost the fight is penealty enough for me. I want to get right back out there and have at em again, not going out to replace my armor or spend 5 mins running back to a corpse that's pinpointed on the map to show u where to go just like a carebear.
WARHAMMER IS HERE FOR THE NEXT 5 YEARS, JUST ACCEPT THAT.
Sure it needs a few tweaks here and there,but at least it's something that can be worked on, unlike WOW, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken poop.
Wow! Really? I never noticed this! Thank you for bringing it to our attention -- we'd all been unaware of it. I mean, it's weird. You'd think a game whose entire success rests on people playing the PVP portion of it would make sure that PVP was incredibly frustrating and difficult and that any loss was extremely painful and would cost you hours of time spent grinding in PVE. Nothing could make people love PVP more than that, righ? I just don't get it. What WAS Mythic thinking? How could easy, fun, low-risk PVP encourage people to PVP more? How would it get people who normally don't like PVP due to bad memories of UO gang-ganks and EQ corpse runs to try PVP again? I don't see how. You ought to tell Mythic this. I don't think they're aware of this fatal flaw. Maybe there's still time for them to add a feature where, if you die in PVP, your character is deleted and you're charged 100 dollars.
If coming across as a moron was your objective, you succeeded.
No Risk No Reward pvp pretty much loses it's flavor after a few months of play. Even in WoW the PvP of mindless suicide runs in the BGs got pretty boring pretty fast.
It's good enough to keep the mouthbreathers on it tho
Oh noes! The big bad macho PVPer doesn't like me! My life is OVER! I'll never be with the COOL people who pretend to be magic elves in fairyland! Instead, I'm stuck with the LAME people who pretend to be magic elves in fairyland!
Oh woe is me. Alack and alas.
I'd kill myself in shame, but, y'know, I'd just respawn...
Remember, folks: It is possible to determine your intelligence by whether or not you like "high risk" PVP. That's why IQ tests have been replaced by the simple question:"Do you like WOW or EVE?"
Folks... you're playing "Cowboys and Indians" on your computer. (For you PC types, that's "Oppressive Imperialists And Despoiled Natives".) You say "Bang, you're dead!" Someone falls down and goes "Ack!". The difference between "Hardcore" and "Carebear" PVP is if you can get up again right away, or if you have to sit in time out for ten minutes.
If you think there's any way, any way AT ALL, to make this hobby rough, tough, macho or manly... if you think that you aren't a complete and total joke when you talk abour "real risk" and "real pain" in PVP... if you think you're impressing *anyone* by boasting about how HARD CORE!!! you like your game of digital make believe.... you are seriously, seriously, deluded.
In WAR when you die you spawn right next to a healer in the warcamp 30 seconds away from the Lake PVP zone . Might cost you 5 sec and 2 silver.. Then your as good as new. A 15 minute time out where stats are reduced 50/75% would be a good start. There should be a time out for death in every MMO PVP based game otherwise it serves no purpose defeating other players in battle.
And I think if you lose a game of chess, you shouldn't be allowed to play again for a week. Or maybe the next game in the series, you play with two less pawns!
The "point" of defeating other players is... defeating other players. You get loot. You get renown. You get XP. They don't, 'cause they're dead. (Or they get a lot less than you...)
I don't want them sitting around doing nothing for 15 minutes after I kill them! I want to kill them AGAIN! Or maybe they'll kill me, and then I can rush back in for REVENGE! Bwahaha! (And by 'rush', I mean 'ride across the whole damn zone avoiding people trying to ambush me')
Here is something very important about game design: Doing nothing is not fun. Any game design which relies on you doing nothing (long death timeouts or debuffs, etc), is a BAD game design. Games used to be able to get away with it due to lack of competition. Once one game (we all know which one...) said "Let's reduce the 'doing nothing' part of playing!" -- whether its death penalties or waiting 72 hours camping a spawn -- every other game either followed suit of found itself reduced to a niche market.
Further, harsh death penalties greatly reduce any interest in PVP, where you are much more likely to die because the designer isn't "balancing" the encounters and you don't choose to "aggro" a mob or not. In EQ1, I was, yes, scared to go into the Dark Tunnel because I didn't want to lose all my Cool Stuff (and half a level of XP). I would NEVER have done PVP in EQ (and, uhm, neither did anyone else... remember the 'Priests of Discord'? Did ANYONE flag themselves for PVP?). I do PVP in WAR, and love it, for the first time in ANY MMORPG (and I go back to Neverwinter Nights on AOL and Kesmai on CI$, and, yes, I played UO for a year when it first came out, the so-called 'glory days'), because it's all fun, no loss, except, of course, the shame of defeat -- which is all I need to inspire me to fight harder and smarter next time.
I don't want to "hurt" or "punish" my enemies beyond simply winning the scenario/siege/skirmish -- because I don't want the PLAYERS, the real world human beings behind the avatars, to say "This is bullshit!" and stop playing. Then I can't kill them any more, and that would make me a Sad Lizard. It's better if both sides HAVE FUN, so that they will come back and play tomorrow.
FFA/full loot/hc vs. the casual trend going on now
Ive played both mechanics from UO/EVE to WoW/WAR
They both can be fun but on a different way, one could compare them with such a simple game as poker. As a casual you play with our friends, drink a few beers and whoever wins the chips from the table gets free beers tonight in the local bar - all fun and games.
Now then when everyone smack couple grands to the table the setting gets very different, from fun and games to shaky hands and a adrenaline rush, but when one actually wins it feels like a little orgasm.
I personally like orgasms, but i also like beers in the local bar
FFA/full loot/hc vs. the casual trend going on now Ive played both mechanics from UO/EVE to WoW/WAR They both can be fun but on a different way, one could compare them with such a simple game as poker. As a casual you play with our friends, drink a few beers and whoever wins the chips from the table gets free beers tonight in the local bar - all fun and games. Now then when everyone smack couple grands to the table the setting gets very different, from fun and games to shaky hands and a adrenaline rush, but when one actually wins it feels like a little orgasm. I personally like orgasms, but i also like beers in the local bar
Pick one - or pick both
QFT = Took you guys 107 posts to figure this out, man, reading these threads clarifies every ongoing religious debate in the world.
I love how the carebears always respond to this topic the same way... You guys may like carebear handholding, but others like to feel excitement and actual risk v reward situations. (etc...)
Wow, way to flame-bait! I wouldn't have expected this kind of a post from someone who constantly whines about all the trolls attacking the most hallowed of games, but then again I guess years of rabid DF fanboy-ism can turn anyone into a hypocritical little Gollum.
Originally posted by lorndarken in some games where there was pvp , most people would not dare compete in the pvp because the pvp was risky, eq , you die the enemy could then loot your corpse , sell it or use the items you took
The yellow highlight there is the key. You're hitting the nail right on the head: harsh death penalties kill PvP activity.
------------------------------------------------
Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
Originally posted by lorndarken in some games where there was pvp , most people would not dare compete in the pvp because the pvp was risky, eq , you die the enemy could then loot your corpse , sell it or use the items you took
The yellow highlight there is the key. You're hitting the nail right on the head: harsh death penalties kill PvP activity.
i wanted to point out some of the strenghts and weaknesses of pvp in most games in comparison when it came to death penaltys. i still think though that daoc's armor repair should only be towars crafted armor and lowbie armor, not epic or mythic armor sets.
Comments
Hmmm WOW has a big population base,and don't see much of a death penalty. In fact on insta runs a whole group can be summoned back after a wipe, now if that isn't considered carebear i don't know what is. So many WOW players and employees are trying very hard to make sure WH does not succeed.I really don't see a need for a rvr death penalty. The fact that u died and your grp lost the fight is penealty enough for me. I want to get right back out there and have at em again, not going out to replace my armor or spend 5 mins running back to a corpse that's pinpointed on the map to show u where to go just like a carebear.
WARHAMMER IS HERE FOR THE NEXT 5 YEARS, JUST ACCEPT THAT.
Sure it needs a few tweaks here and there,but at least it's something that can be worked on, unlike WOW, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken poop.
Yeah, the ones who are really give the other 1% a bad reputation!
If coming across as a moron was your objective, you succeeded.
No Risk No Reward pvp pretty much loses it's flavor after a few months of play. Even in WoW the PvP of mindless suicide runs in the BGs got pretty boring pretty fast.
It's good enough to keep the mouthbreathers on it tho
Oh noes! The big bad macho PVPer doesn't like me! My life is OVER! I'll never be with the COOL people who pretend to be magic elves in fairyland! Instead, I'm stuck with the LAME people who pretend to be magic elves in fairyland!
Oh woe is me. Alack and alas.
I'd kill myself in shame, but, y'know, I'd just respawn...
Remember, folks: It is possible to determine your intelligence by whether or not you like "high risk" PVP. That's why IQ tests have been replaced by the simple question:"Do you like WOW or EVE?"
Folks... you're playing "Cowboys and Indians" on your computer. (For you PC types, that's "Oppressive Imperialists And Despoiled Natives".) You say "Bang, you're dead!" Someone falls down and goes "Ack!". The difference between "Hardcore" and "Carebear" PVP is if you can get up again right away, or if you have to sit in time out for ten minutes.
If you think there's any way, any way AT ALL, to make this hobby rough, tough, macho or manly... if you think that you aren't a complete and total joke when you talk abour "real risk" and "real pain" in PVP... if you think you're impressing *anyone* by boasting about how HARD CORE!!! you like your game of digital make believe.... you are seriously, seriously, deluded.
And I think if you lose a game of chess, you shouldn't be allowed to play again for a week. Or maybe the next game in the series, you play with two less pawns!
The "point" of defeating other players is... defeating other players. You get loot. You get renown. You get XP. They don't, 'cause they're dead. (Or they get a lot less than you...)
I don't want them sitting around doing nothing for 15 minutes after I kill them! I want to kill them AGAIN! Or maybe they'll kill me, and then I can rush back in for REVENGE! Bwahaha! (And by 'rush', I mean 'ride across the whole damn zone avoiding people trying to ambush me')
Here is something very important about game design: Doing nothing is not fun. Any game design which relies on you doing nothing (long death timeouts or debuffs, etc), is a BAD game design. Games used to be able to get away with it due to lack of competition. Once one game (we all know which one...) said "Let's reduce the 'doing nothing' part of playing!" -- whether its death penalties or waiting 72 hours camping a spawn -- every other game either followed suit of found itself reduced to a niche market.
Further, harsh death penalties greatly reduce any interest in PVP, where you are much more likely to die because the designer isn't "balancing" the encounters and you don't choose to "aggro" a mob or not. In EQ1, I was, yes, scared to go into the Dark Tunnel because I didn't want to lose all my Cool Stuff (and half a level of XP). I would NEVER have done PVP in EQ (and, uhm, neither did anyone else... remember the 'Priests of Discord'? Did ANYONE flag themselves for PVP?). I do PVP in WAR, and love it, for the first time in ANY MMORPG (and I go back to Neverwinter Nights on AOL and Kesmai on CI$, and, yes, I played UO for a year when it first came out, the so-called 'glory days'), because it's all fun, no loss, except, of course, the shame of defeat -- which is all I need to inspire me to fight harder and smarter next time.
I don't want to "hurt" or "punish" my enemies beyond simply winning the scenario/siege/skirmish -- because I don't want the PLAYERS, the real world human beings behind the avatars, to say "This is bullshit!" and stop playing. Then I can't kill them any more, and that would make me a Sad Lizard. It's better if both sides HAVE FUN, so that they will come back and play tomorrow.
FFA/full loot/hc vs. the casual trend going on now
Ive played both mechanics from UO/EVE to WoW/WAR
They both can be fun but on a different way, one could compare them with such a simple game as poker. As a casual you play with our friends, drink a few beers and whoever wins the chips from the table gets free beers tonight in the local bar - all fun and games.
Now then when everyone smack couple grands to the table the setting gets very different, from fun and games to shaky hands and a adrenaline rush, but when one actually wins it feels like a little orgasm.
I personally like orgasms, but i also like beers in the local bar
Pick one - or pick both
QFT = Took you guys 107 posts to figure this out, man, reading these threads clarifies every ongoing religious debate in the world.
Yeah, WAR you commit suicide so that you can heal up.
Wow, way to flame-bait! I wouldn't have expected this kind of a post from someone who constantly whines about all the trolls attacking the most hallowed of games, but then again I guess years of rabid DF fanboy-ism can turn anyone into a hypocritical little Gollum.
The yellow highlight there is the key. You're hitting the nail right on the head: harsh death penalties kill PvP activity.
------------------------------------------------
Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny
Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
The yellow highlight there is the key. You're hitting the nail right on the head: harsh death penalties kill PvP activity.
i wanted to point out some of the strenghts and weaknesses of pvp in most games in comparison when it came to death penaltys. i still think though that daoc's armor repair should only be towars crafted armor and lowbie armor, not epic or mythic armor sets.