Seeing as Darkfallonline.com has 175k registered fans even though the game is not out yet, I would say the "niche" MMO market is FAR from dead.
(Bolded and enlarged for ease of reading)
Also: /thread?
WAR had over a million. It was much more hyped, much bigger budget, and it still didn't oversell its beta subs.
Out of the 175k, being this no name developer, i doubt it'll sell over 50k come release. Which isn't terrible, but its not a huge base developers want to make games for.
Well, at least theres a very likely possibility of seeing some EVE inspired MMOs at some point. I think the way they built their player base (from a small, niche group) is pretty impressive and it proves that their style of MMO is viable. If a group of developers can take that game, make it land based, then improve/evolve the design, we might see a really successful MMO that goes right against the current (linear themepark) design.
Honestly, WoW is EverQuest without death penalty and the possibility to grind your way to the top solo. IF anything, WoW made the MMO genre BETTER.
The problem are the developpers strongly believe that WoW is an easy game designed for casual players; they don't understand that it's EverQuest without the glaring shortcomings.
Look at WAR; it's boring because the world has no depth, it was just designed to make you lvl and not designed as a living breathing world with a past and a future. Therefore it's just Counter Strike with fantasy classes; but counter strike is better, because you do not have the classes/faction unbalance and the need to level.
WoW is not responsible for the degradation of the MMO genre, its the developpers who simply don't understand what players want. They want challenge, fun, and thrill; not grind, repetitivity, and boredom.
My addiction History: >> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore >> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual >> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
Seeing as Darkfallonline.com has 175k registered fans even though the game is not out yet, I would say the "niche" MMO market is FAR from dead.
(Bolded and enlarged for ease of reading)
Also: /thread?
WAR had over a million. It was much more hyped, much bigger budget, and it still didn't oversell its beta subs.
Out of the 175k, being this no name developer, i doubt it'll sell over 50k come release. Which isn't terrible, but its not a huge base developers want to make games for.
WAR is not a niche MMO, so I dont see why it belongs in this thread.
Also you comment about 50k people buying the game is laughable. EVERYONE registered on the site is very interested in the game, and if it delivers 50% of whats promised it will sell 200k+ at realease easy. I know about 20 people from my old WoW server that are not registered on the site, but plan on trying it at release.
Btw the thread is about whether WoW has killed niche MMO's. Which is clearly wrong as 175k+ people are registered on the forums of a unreleased "niche" mmo.
175k resistered users over the last 23 years that the game has been under development. I'm sure half of those registered users have died of old age already.
Blizz is just like Nintendo, they know they're audience & their own limitations so they stick to what works.
More power to them I say...
However that also leaves room for a serious MMO to emerge. First developer that combines the best elements of the fab four (UO, EQ, AC & DAOC) minus the time sinks into a graphically pleasing package has a gold mine on their hands.
We'll know when it arrives just like we could sense EQ & WOW would blow up.
WoW didn't kill the market, the market was never really there. Most of the video gaming population doesn't want to play a game that will take away everything else they do. I played EQ, DAOC, AC etc all the same crap, login wait for group, travel to get to group, sit in some spot and pull things to you until you puke. Death penalty meant no one would do anything but what was safe, don't want to loose your stuff. People camping some stupid mob in shifts for weeks at a time for dumb drop, gathering 80 people together to kill one dragon guh. If these were the things people wanted those game would have millions of people. No one wants the time sink, not too many people want to devout every free second they have just to be competative. You also have to consider that alot of the people that play mmo's are paper and pencil geeks that are now older and just don't have time to put into it anymore. That is why WoW works, login enough content to solo or if you have time find a group, no matter how much time you have there always feels like you got something done, not just travel so maybe when you login tomorrow you will be able to play.
That is why WoW works, login enough content to solo or if you have time find a group, no matter how much time you have there always feels like you got something done, not just travel so maybe when you login tomorrow you will be able to play.
I don't want to get anything done, I just want to play in a group because it is fun. Getting stuff done isn't that much fun for me.
I think WoW has been good for the MMOs genre, niche games included. May be not in the short term but I’m sure in the long term.
WoW has attracted not less than 10 million new players to the genre. At some time some of them will be looking for other kind of MMOs, and I’m sure they are ready for new challenges. Some will jump in the “niche games”; probably they are doing it right now.
I’m sure the recent and not that recent failure of launches of like-WoW games coming from big companies have show them that it is not the way to go. (Take failure as not being able to catch the masses, a big or medium company’s game getting barely a 1-2% of the market)
I’m sure they currently know they need to make something different. May be not a big step but definitely different. NCSoft is going to make the first serious try at it (NCSoft has been the most damaged company by WoW), Aion will have things copied from WoW as from other games as well, but the whole package will have something different. I hope they succeed in its main markets (Korea and the rest of Asia) and in western countries too. SWTOR is going in a different way too. I hope they deliver a good product. This will be good for the whole market evolution.
The market will evolve and probably grow in the long term. This evolution will give new generations of players to “niche MMOs” doesn’t matter if they will come from WoW or from other mass games. More players make more opportunities for both big and small companies.
I hope the big developers have learned too that the market will reject games not well done. After 4 years of history with sound cash-flows partially reinvested in the game Blizzard has build very well the barriers to entry in the market. No launch full of bugs and scarce content will get any opportunity to win its place in the market. People are used to play something polished and with things to do (may be repetitive things but anyway). I’m sure this is good for the players; companies know they need to launch their games as any other finished product or service do in other markets. Small companies will be forced to deliver some level of technical quality too (not just new ideas poorly done) and they will do.
To me the real problem for small companies, will start as soon as the big ones (Blizzard included) start to think in the “niches” market as a way to grow their market shares, they will put any small company without their “protection” out of market as it has happened in a lot of markets controlled by few big companies with almost no room for any other companies. But probably this is still far away.
Games market is growing more than any other entertainment market. WoW has demonstrated that MMOs are a small but profitable part of this market. We just need to wait a bit more.
Seeing as Darkfallonline.com has 175k registered fans even though the game is not out yet, I would say the "niche" MMO market is FAR from dead.
(Bolded and enlarged for ease of reading)
Also: /thread?
WAR had over a million. It was much more hyped, much bigger budget, and it still didn't oversell its beta subs.
Out of the 175k, being this no name developer, i doubt it'll sell over 50k come release. Which isn't terrible, but its not a huge base developers want to make games for.
WAR is not a niche MMO, so I dont see why it belongs in this thread.
Also you comment about 50k people buying the game is laughable. EVERYONE registered on the site is very interested in the game, and if it delivers 50% of whats promised it will sell 200k+ at realease easy. I know about 20 people from my old WoW server that are not registered on the site, but plan on trying it at release.
Btw the thread is about whether WoW has killed niche MMO's. Which is clearly wrong as 175k+ people are registered on the forums of a unreleased "niche" mmo.
So I say again-
/Thread
What a joke you are, seriously, I laugh at how delusional you are. I'll be generous, if darkfall tops 100k subs in the first month, I will come to these forums and apologize to you right here in the general forum.
If it doesn't i expect you to come here and do the same.
And 50% of darkfall wouldn't even be a mmo, It'd be a sandbox without the sand. From the videos it barely has gameplay in, if 50% of the features are in, why would anyone play it?
That is why WoW works, login enough content to solo or if you have time find a group, no matter how much time you have there always feels like you got something done, not just travel so maybe when you login tomorrow you will be able to play.
I don't want to get anything done, I just want to play in a group because it is fun. Getting stuff done isn't that much fun for me.
So what do you want a group for? Just to chat, theres plenty of 3d chatrooms out there, go play them. The entire point of mmorpgs is the adventure into another world.
Sounds like you are just making excuses since you have no clue what you actually are looking for.
WoW certainly didn't kill any market, there is a huge market for niche MMO's. The problem being that there is a strong difference between niche MMO's and crap MMO's. There are very few niche MMO's, but there are a hell of a lot of crap ones, the issue is that MMO's require more planning and careful crafting then most people are up to.
Just look at an MMO like S.E.E.D, which although being a terribly niche concept it generated a lot of interest through beta and "release", generating far more interest in fact than it could handle. It crashed and burned not because there wasn't a market for it, but there simply wasn't a game. This is a recurring problem which happens over and over again.
You can't get mad at Blizzard for Capitalizing on other games. They simply saw what EQ did, and made it better. Don't get me wrong I hold EQ dear to my heart, but SOE had it coming.
WoW can't hold EQ's jockstrap they are not even in the same league.
yep true while one has multi millions of players wiht mlti award winning acaldaes the other has fallen inot the shadows. They tried to make Eq2 at the same time as wow hoping it would pwn wow, so much for that. So Wows has Eq jockstrap and its balls and shoved them up soes ass.
Millions of players doesn't impress me at all ... hell Mcdonalds has fed more people than many resturants combined ... does that mean it has the best food?
who gives a shit about EQ2? where did i mention that game? and by the way EQ2 is still a better game than WoW and EQ1 blows both of them away.
Oh look when they fail, they bring up the most idiotic analogy by idiotic internet users. Yes the hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of grinding was fun........... oh wait wasnt that what wow had, then everyone complained because to get items you had to spend months and months and months and months raiding? or grinding for items. Now you want the make your eyes bleed things that are historic back? I swear people on this forums just flip and flip everyone week to months. No wounder why no recent mmo succeeds, its not because of wow its because of the idiot mmo players not knowing what they want, then when they get it they whine like bitches. Eq grinding days are over. Unless your saying grinding is what you want, but i thought that world of grindcraft( thats what you people liek to call it) was not wanted?
Lets see
Swg was losing subs hadn over fist long before wow was around, same with daoc, same with daoc and the same with Eq. So how did wow actually destroy anything. Infact wow has the biggest vet swg, eq, uo, DAOCC ETC ETC SUBS OF ANY MMO. If not for wow these so called vets would not even be playing mmos anymore most likely with. If wow had not come out EQ2 would have single hadedley destroyed the mmo market end of story.
Heh, I'm a veteran MMO player and I didn't like WoW at all. In fact I played EQ2 for awhile and quite enjoyed my time there.
I play EvE online at the moment, and considering that is most certainly a niche game, my answer would have to be that no, Blizzard and WoW have not destroyed the niche market. As other posters have stated correctly above, it is the poor quality and sloppy release of most MMO's that spell their own demise.
However I would never buy into any bullsh*t of the kind that Martie has been expousing as he slumps over his keyboard, foaming at the mouth, while zealously trying to make us all see the light.
Originally posted by nomadian Following reading someone's blog it got me really wondering this; whether the impact WoW has had was to put the nails in the coffins of niche mmos. An example, DAoC lost a lot of subscribers by the time WoW came out(whereas before this it had a decently healthy subscription level) And Ryzom, a mmo made post-WoW, is struggling to find many subscribers and is even offering itself free for a stage just to incent some numbers to try the game. Had Ryzom come before WoW would it have been more popular?
As said the Trials of Atlantis had already hurt Dark Age of Camelot before World of Warcraft came out. Mythic wouldn't address the problems as a result DAoC started to bleed players. WoW if anything just cause that wound to open up even more. DAoC would have and would be fine if Mythic had not released ToA or addressed the issues as soon as they appeared as people didn't like the expansion as soon as it was put for the most part. They only address the issue a few years later and by then it was to late and didn't really matter as the damage had been done. WoW can't be blamed for what happen to DAoC I feel. Mythic did that. Just as Turbine and Microsoft themselves killed Asheron's Call 2 in the end with how they handled things.
I think it did for me. I took post-nge swg to 90 and wow to 70. I have not been able to get anywhere near end game in any other game. Hell I will most likely resub and grab LK in dec( I have friends and I like the lore) for some reason I love WAR but just can't log on. Now I do like LOTRO but FO3 fable 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire have kept me busy lol.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
It isnt their fault that all these companies have released rushed pieces of crap just to make a quick and easy buck. Make a solid and polished game and all would be fine.
The only thing Blizzard changed was peoples views on crappy releases. Those that played WoW at the start now find it hard to accept anything that is " a work in progress " or " has potential ". Potential means you havent done SQUAT.
I am also tires of companies like Mythic who think they are entitled to something " just cuz ". Stop whining and fix your crappy game!
I love how everyone always blames WoW for the woes of the mmo industry. Blizzard made their game, their way. People liked it. Really, really liked it. Blizzard is not responsible for what other companies do. Its not like they put guns to the heads of the makers of other mmos and told them to make their games like WoW.
So once again, its not WoW's fault mmo's are the the way they are these days. Blame the makers of the other mmo's, not Blizzard.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
There is no way WoW will ever even touch Nich MMO's. Mainly because WoW is competing for the mainstream players not the Nich MMO players.
Your basically comparing Apples to Oranges really.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
I love how everyone always blames WoW for the woes of the mmo industry. Blizzard copied other peoples games, what ever was popular at the time, and added in whatever the new markets brought. People liked it. Really, really liked it. Blizzard is not responsible for what other companies do. Its not like they put guns to the heads of the makers of other mmos and told them to make their games like WoW. So once again, its not WoW's fault mmo's are the the way they are these days. Blame the makers of the other mmo's, not Blizzard.
Fixed!!
But seriously, Blizzard did kill the Niche market. It brought in a mass of players, those players play the niche games, compare them to WoW.. and never realize that the games ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THE SAME, and then do everything that they can to bring the new game down. OR What something new is released that might be a new concept, blizzard does what it can to incorperate it into WoW.
I do, however, blame a lot of game companies for trying to take down WoW. It shouldn't be a competition of products, it should be another option. Too many times, developers look at WoW and say.. hey.. let's cut into that marketshare, they copy WoW in 7 out of 8 ways, rebrand it, and sell it. The thing is, People don't want to play a game LIKE WoW, they want to play WoW or they don't.
"Luckily I know that while you make nonsnese baiting threads that get locked....threads I make get sticked by the mods on this forum...." -imbant (greatest board warrior EVER) Darkfall Countdown: http://darkfallreleasedate.com/
There is no way WoW will ever even touch Nich MMO's. Mainly because WoW is competing for the mainstream players not the Nich MMO players.
Your basically comparing Apples to Oranges really.
Very good point. The niche market will still be there, just under the radar. The developers attention (it seems) is completely focused on the mainstream players right now and you can blame WoW for that, if you want to.
But, those of us that fall into one of the niche catagories will only spend a short amount of time, if that, in any of the mainstream MMOs. So, we're still here, waiting for "some thing else" to come along...
Comments
Seeing as Darkfallonline.com has 175k registered fans even though the game is not out yet, I would say the "niche" MMO market is FAR from dead.
(Bolded and enlarged for ease of reading)
Also:
/thread?
WAR had over a million. It was much more hyped, much bigger budget, and it still didn't oversell its beta subs.
Out of the 175k, being this no name developer, i doubt it'll sell over 50k come release. Which isn't terrible, but its not a huge base developers want to make games for.
While I'm just as excited about Darkfalls upcoming beta It's crazy to even think this game will touch Eve in community size.
Personally I don't know how DF could possibly pull me from Eve for more than a couple hours a week.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
While I'm just as excited about Darkfalls upcoming beta It's crazy to even think this game will touch Eve in community size.
Personally I don't know how DF could possibly pull me from Eve for more than a couple hours a week.
That is if it launches at all.
While I'm just as excited about Darkfalls upcoming beta It's crazy to even think this game will touch Eve in community size.
Personally I don't know how DF could possibly pull me from Eve for more than a couple hours a week.
That is if it launches at all.
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You wouldn't understand
Well, at least theres a very likely possibility of seeing some EVE inspired MMOs at some point. I think the way they built their player base (from a small, niche group) is pretty impressive and it proves that their style of MMO is viable. If a group of developers can take that game, make it land based, then improve/evolve the design, we might see a really successful MMO that goes right against the current (linear themepark) design.
Honestly, WoW is EverQuest without death penalty and the possibility to grind your way to the top solo. IF anything, WoW made the MMO genre BETTER.
The problem are the developpers strongly believe that WoW is an easy game designed for casual players; they don't understand that it's EverQuest without the glaring shortcomings.
Look at WAR; it's boring because the world has no depth, it was just designed to make you lvl and not designed as a living breathing world with a past and a future. Therefore it's just Counter Strike with fantasy classes; but counter strike is better, because you do not have the classes/faction unbalance and the need to level.
WoW is not responsible for the degradation of the MMO genre, its the developpers who simply don't understand what players want. They want challenge, fun, and thrill; not grind, repetitivity, and boredom.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
WAR had over a million. It was much more hyped, much bigger budget, and it still didn't oversell its beta subs.
Out of the 175k, being this no name developer, i doubt it'll sell over 50k come release. Which isn't terrible, but its not a huge base developers want to make games for.
WAR is not a niche MMO, so I dont see why it belongs in this thread.
Also you comment about 50k people buying the game is laughable. EVERYONE registered on the site is very interested in the game, and if it delivers 50% of whats promised it will sell 200k+ at realease easy. I know about 20 people from my old WoW server that are not registered on the site, but plan on trying it at release.
Btw the thread is about whether WoW has killed niche MMO's. Which is clearly wrong as 175k+ people are registered on the forums of a unreleased "niche" mmo.
So I say again-
/Thread
175k resistered users over the last 23 years that the game has been under development. I'm sure half of those registered users have died of old age already.
WOW 's hasn't put the nail in anything.
Blizz is just like Nintendo, they know they're audience & their own limitations so they stick to what works.
More power to them I say...
However that also leaves room for a serious MMO to emerge. First developer that combines the best elements of the fab four (UO, EQ, AC & DAOC) minus the time sinks into a graphically pleasing package has a gold mine on their hands.
We'll know when it arrives just like we could sense EQ & WOW would blow up.
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
WoW didn't kill the market, the market was never really there. Most of the video gaming population doesn't want to play a game that will take away everything else they do. I played EQ, DAOC, AC etc all the same crap, login wait for group, travel to get to group, sit in some spot and pull things to you until you puke. Death penalty meant no one would do anything but what was safe, don't want to loose your stuff. People camping some stupid mob in shifts for weeks at a time for dumb drop, gathering 80 people together to kill one dragon guh. If these were the things people wanted those game would have millions of people. No one wants the time sink, not too many people want to devout every free second they have just to be competative. You also have to consider that alot of the people that play mmo's are paper and pencil geeks that are now older and just don't have time to put into it anymore. That is why WoW works, login enough content to solo or if you have time find a group, no matter how much time you have there always feels like you got something done, not just travel so maybe when you login tomorrow you will be able to play.
I don't want to get anything done, I just want to play in a group because it is fun. Getting stuff done isn't that much fun for me.
I think WoW has been good for the MMOs genre, niche games included. May be not in the short term but I’m sure in the long term.
WoW has attracted not less than 10 million new players to the genre. At some time some of them will be looking for other kind of MMOs, and I’m sure they are ready for new challenges. Some will jump in the “niche games”; probably they are doing it right now.
I’m sure the recent and not that recent failure of launches of like-WoW games coming from big companies have show them that it is not the way to go. (Take failure as not being able to catch the masses, a big or medium company’s game getting barely a 1-2% of the market)
I’m sure they currently know they need to make something different. May be not a big step but definitely different. NCSoft is going to make the first serious try at it (NCSoft has been the most damaged company by WoW), Aion will have things copied from WoW as from other games as well, but the whole package will have something different. I hope they succeed in its main markets (Korea and the rest of Asia) and in western countries too. SWTOR is going in a different way too. I hope they deliver a good product. This will be good for the whole market evolution.
The market will evolve and probably grow in the long term. This evolution will give new generations of players to “niche MMOs” doesn’t matter if they will come from WoW or from other mass games. More players make more opportunities for both big and small companies.
I hope the big developers have learned too that the market will reject games not well done. After 4 years of history with sound cash-flows partially reinvested in the game Blizzard has build very well the barriers to entry in the market. No launch full of bugs and scarce content will get any opportunity to win its place in the market. People are used to play something polished and with things to do (may be repetitive things but anyway). I’m sure this is good for the players; companies know they need to launch their games as any other finished product or service do in other markets. Small companies will be forced to deliver some level of technical quality too (not just new ideas poorly done) and they will do.
To me the real problem for small companies, will start as soon as the big ones (Blizzard included) start to think in the “niches” market as a way to grow their market shares, they will put any small company without their “protection” out of market as it has happened in a lot of markets controlled by few big companies with almost no room for any other companies. But probably this is still far away.
Games market is growing more than any other entertainment market. WoW has demonstrated that MMOs are a small but profitable part of this market. We just need to wait a bit more.
Well that’s just my opinion, may be I’m wrong.
WAR had over a million. It was much more hyped, much bigger budget, and it still didn't oversell its beta subs.
Out of the 175k, being this no name developer, i doubt it'll sell over 50k come release. Which isn't terrible, but its not a huge base developers want to make games for.
WAR is not a niche MMO, so I dont see why it belongs in this thread.
Also you comment about 50k people buying the game is laughable. EVERYONE registered on the site is very interested in the game, and if it delivers 50% of whats promised it will sell 200k+ at realease easy. I know about 20 people from my old WoW server that are not registered on the site, but plan on trying it at release.
Btw the thread is about whether WoW has killed niche MMO's. Which is clearly wrong as 175k+ people are registered on the forums of a unreleased "niche" mmo.
So I say again-
/Thread
What a joke you are, seriously, I laugh at how delusional you are. I'll be generous, if darkfall tops 100k subs in the first month, I will come to these forums and apologize to you right here in the general forum.
If it doesn't i expect you to come here and do the same.
And 50% of darkfall wouldn't even be a mmo, It'd be a sandbox without the sand. From the videos it barely has gameplay in, if 50% of the features are in, why would anyone play it?
I don't want to get anything done, I just want to play in a group because it is fun. Getting stuff done isn't that much fun for me.
So what do you want a group for? Just to chat, theres plenty of 3d chatrooms out there, go play them. The entire point of mmorpgs is the adventure into another world.
Sounds like you are just making excuses since you have no clue what you actually are looking for.
WoW certainly didn't kill any market, there is a huge market for niche MMO's. The problem being that there is a strong difference between niche MMO's and crap MMO's. There are very few niche MMO's, but there are a hell of a lot of crap ones, the issue is that MMO's require more planning and careful crafting then most people are up to.
Just look at an MMO like S.E.E.D, which although being a terribly niche concept it generated a lot of interest through beta and "release", generating far more interest in fact than it could handle. It crashed and burned not because there wasn't a market for it, but there simply wasn't a game. This is a recurring problem which happens over and over again.
WoW can't hold EQ's jockstrap they are not even in the same league.
yep true while one has multi millions of players wiht mlti award winning acaldaes the other has fallen inot the shadows. They tried to make Eq2 at the same time as wow hoping it would pwn wow, so much for that. So Wows has Eq jockstrap and its balls and shoved them up soes ass.
Millions of players doesn't impress me at all ... hell Mcdonalds has fed more people than many resturants combined ... does that mean it has the best food?
who gives a shit about EQ2? where did i mention that game? and by the way EQ2 is still a better game than WoW and EQ1 blows both of them away.
Oh look when they fail, they bring up the most idiotic analogy by idiotic internet users. Yes the hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of grinding was fun........... oh wait wasnt that what wow had, then everyone complained because to get items you had to spend months and months and months and months raiding? or grinding for items. Now you want the make your eyes bleed things that are historic back? I swear people on this forums just flip and flip everyone week to months. No wounder why no recent mmo succeeds, its not because of wow its because of the idiot mmo players not knowing what they want, then when they get it they whine like bitches. Eq grinding days are over. Unless your saying grinding is what you want, but i thought that world of grindcraft( thats what you people liek to call it) was not wanted?
Lets see
Swg was losing subs hadn over fist long before wow was around, same with daoc, same with daoc and the same with Eq. So how did wow actually destroy anything. Infact wow has the biggest vet swg, eq, uo, DAOCC ETC ETC SUBS OF ANY MMO. If not for wow these so called vets would not even be playing mmos anymore most likely with. If wow had not come out EQ2 would have single hadedley destroyed the mmo market end of story.
Heh, I'm a veteran MMO player and I didn't like WoW at all. In fact I played EQ2 for awhile and quite enjoyed my time there.
I play EvE online at the moment, and considering that is most certainly a niche game, my answer would have to be that no, Blizzard and WoW have not destroyed the niche market. As other posters have stated correctly above, it is the poor quality and sloppy release of most MMO's that spell their own demise.
However I would never buy into any bullsh*t of the kind that Martie has been expousing as he slumps over his keyboard, foaming at the mouth, while zealously trying to make us all see the light.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
As said the Trials of Atlantis had already hurt Dark Age of Camelot before World of Warcraft came out. Mythic wouldn't address the problems as a result DAoC started to bleed players. WoW if anything just cause that wound to open up even more. DAoC would have and would be fine if Mythic had not released ToA or addressed the issues as soon as they appeared as people didn't like the expansion as soon as it was put for the most part. They only address the issue a few years later and by then it was to late and didn't really matter as the damage had been done. WoW can't be blamed for what happen to DAoC I feel. Mythic did that. Just as Turbine and Microsoft themselves killed Asheron's Call 2 in the end with how they handled things.
I think it did for me. I took post-nge swg to 90 and wow to 70. I have not been able to get anywhere near end game in any other game. Hell I will most likely resub and grab LK in dec( I have friends and I like the lore) for some reason I love WAR but just can't log on. Now I do like LOTRO but FO3 fable 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire have kept me busy lol.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Blizzard and WoW didnt ruin ANYTHING.
It isnt their fault that all these companies have released rushed pieces of crap just to make a quick and easy buck. Make a solid and polished game and all would be fine.
The only thing Blizzard changed was peoples views on crappy releases. Those that played WoW at the start now find it hard to accept anything that is " a work in progress " or " has potential ". Potential means you havent done SQUAT.
I am also tires of companies like Mythic who think they are entitled to something " just cuz ". Stop whining and fix your crappy game!
Lot of people are finally gettin burnt out on WoW. It'll be probably one of the most successful MMOs in history, but it'll eventually die out.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
McDonald's: over 1 billion burgers served
I love how everyone always blames WoW for the woes of the mmo industry. Blizzard made their game, their way. People liked it. Really, really liked it. Blizzard is not responsible for what other companies do. Its not like they put guns to the heads of the makers of other mmos and told them to make their games like WoW.
So once again, its not WoW's fault mmo's are the the way they are these days. Blame the makers of the other mmo's, not Blizzard.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
There is no way WoW will ever even touch Nich MMO's. Mainly because WoW is competing for the mainstream players not the Nich MMO players.
Your basically comparing Apples to Oranges really.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Fixed!!
But seriously, Blizzard did kill the Niche market. It brought in a mass of players, those players play the niche games, compare them to WoW.. and never realize that the games ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THE SAME, and then do everything that they can to bring the new game down. OR What something new is released that might be a new concept, blizzard does what it can to incorperate it into WoW.
I do, however, blame a lot of game companies for trying to take down WoW. It shouldn't be a competition of products, it should be another option. Too many times, developers look at WoW and say.. hey.. let's cut into that marketshare, they copy WoW in 7 out of 8 ways, rebrand it, and sell it. The thing is, People don't want to play a game LIKE WoW, they want to play WoW or they don't.
"Luckily I know that while you make nonsnese baiting threads that get locked....threads I make get sticked by the mods on this forum...." -imbant (greatest board warrior EVER)
Darkfall Countdown: http://darkfallreleasedate.com/
Very good point. The niche market will still be there, just under the radar. The developers attention (it seems) is completely focused on the mainstream players right now and you can blame WoW for that, if you want to.
But, those of us that fall into one of the niche catagories will only spend a short amount of time, if that, in any of the mainstream MMOs. So, we're still here, waiting for "some thing else" to come along...