Its actually amazing that Mythic have managed to make an RvR game where the players can take control of keeps and yet actually forgot to include a reason for the players to take them LMAO!!!!! This has to be the most hilarious f**kup in game design that I have seen for ages!! No I dont mean award the victors more experience points and items. Whats the point in that? Thats not a reason! No Mythic I mean REAL strategic reasons.......not superficial ones that the players earn automatically by playing the game anyway. Whats also rather amazing is the fact that so many players havent even noticed!!! Everyone is so bloody obsessed with leveling their own individual characters as they have done for years in WoW that they cant even see that the reason why WAR is so useless is because there isnt actually anything to gain by taking part in it. Whats the point of having Keeps in the game when you can just ignore them and carry on mindlessly following the levelling treadmill? Mythic have completely wasted their time with this joke of a game. I dont think I have ever seen a war game where the designers actually forgot to give a reason for the players to take over things It looks like the developers at Mythic were so addicted to playing WoW that their brains just couldnt comprehend how anything else might work lol
Yeah its really astounding frankly.
It actually kind of bugs me, because I just can't quite understand how professionals who supposedly did this before could neglect this. I went in kind of assuming the Victory points made sense at some point even though they didn't seem to in open beta. Eventually I came to the conclusion that they were borked. Then finally, after a month of forum begging, Mythic explained them and although I had already gotten msot of the information it confirmed what i had already pretty much figured out. Their zone objective and campaign progress design is worthless. Completely lacks any ability to accomplish its purpose. In fact it works conttary to its purpose.
There has to be some reason other than rampant stupidity or blindness. There just has to be, right? Meh I dunno. Its cooked, been cooked for a while.
So how come it is being attacked and harrassed EVEN MORE than some true failures? Will someone explain that to me?
A number of factors:
- WAR did not live up to the hype generated by Mythic and perpetuated by the fanboys. Together they created the image of a perfect game that would never have been possible by any development company on release. People are angry as a result of this, and vent their fury on these forums.
- Do not underestimate the pleasure Trolls will take in winding up Fanboys. The more Fanboys zealously defend their game, the more the Trolls will seek to ridicule them. It's a vicious circle, and WAR had some of the more cultist-like followers until the Darkfall Fanboys rolled over the hill to take that dubious title. Where there are Fanboys, there will be Trolls. And vice versa.
- Mark Jacobs' not-so-well-hidden arrogance and seeming lack of professionalism. Although I do not condone the comments by some of the Blizzard execs, they do at least have the backing of a multi-million selling game. Jacobs often came across as an angry little man trying to make sideswipes at the big guy.
- All Trolls get bored eventually and move to new pastures. They moved on from VG, they moved on from DnL, they moved on from AoC. WAR seems to be the current whipping boy, but depending on how the DF circus turns out, they might find a new home...
WAR is boring, all i have to say about the game really.
Nice avatar
And yea WAR is a bad WoW clone, much to my dissapointment. Got two chars to t4 and quit about 1 month ago. Just so much potential and ruined by the devs.
Coordinated guild keep sieges and defenses in t3 and t4 were amazing experiences....too bad they didnt happen often enough.
Scenarios FTW. They tried to be like WoW but failed in that respect.
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
3. More responsive combat - enough said. Well, where to start with this one. Again was actually brought up as a feature of WAR by people like yourself as slower combat aparently = tactical fighting...
It's not about combat speed (fast paced vs. slow). It's about responsiveness and smoothness. Both which Warhammer lacks. Things like casting animations do not sync with pushbacks, or casting animations being shown even if the cast time has been reduced to zero seconds. Come on, we have 2008. This is simply unacceptable and highly unprofessional for a high quality game. This game was supposed to be all about PvP and combat. So their first priority should have been to make 100% sure that combat works great. No stuttering, no hitching (as many suffer from), no lag in huge battles, proper casting animations. If you cannot see those issues you truely never played other games.
WoW is a monopolist and monopolists all behave in the same way: maximize profits by decreasing investment as much as possible - simply because they can. The customers have nowhere else to go.
FFS the prime reason WoTLK introduced that "world PvP" and those achievement titles is WAR. Do you think Blizzard would bother with those if there wasn't WAR as potential competition? Looool. Players have been asking for those things for the past 4 years and it was always "manjana" (that's "tomorrow" for you). Lol, if some poor dev at Bliz said "hey lets put those things in" a suit would come up with "what for? why should we spend money on these things when the players have nowhere else to go? You'd be hurting our percentages with unnecessary investments man. You're fired."
I thought it self evident what's happening here. You WoW guys will get hurt more with WAR's failure than its success. You'll get a lazy corp which doesn't care because it has no one to compete with... as was the case before serious competition appeared on the horizon. It'll be a Pyrrhic victory indeed.
Spare me the marxist propaganda. It is not a monopoly. It is a market leader. Consumers vote with their feet. 11 million have chosen to play WoW. I am not one of them. I used to be until BC came out and realised what a time-consuming and joyless grind it is.
The consumers have elsewhere to go. There is a huge list of games to the left of the screen so cut the crap about monopoly. Also if WoW did not continue to invest in its game with new content then it would have lost its market share to its competitors. So it does invest in itself which in turn has generated profits.
I unsubscribed from WAR last week. Levelling to 40 was decent fun but then the game has little to offer to me. Also I was sick of fighting to the enemy fortress only to have the server crash and then resetting the zones. Further I did not get an extra mastery point at Renown rank 40 which pissed me off. And my bug reports were not responded to. And scenarios were repetitive, and crafting was shallow, and etc etc
Anyway I am hoping Darkfall will deliver the goods because there is nothing else on the horizon that shows promise to me.
''98-''99 UO (Golden days!) ''00-''02 CS; SB beta ''03-''04 MODO ''04-''07 WoW ''07 - SB Waiting for Darkfall and PoBS
Originally posted by markoraos My point is that WoW can go on with those kinds of serious flaws that haven't been addressed in YEARS, while WAR is butchered
makoraos, you list the flaws of WoW. Note that your opinion is that of a tiny minority.
WARs flaws are
1. lag 2. scenarios, should've never been put in game
if WAR was orvr from the start, more people would now play and that would've helped the population. people quit due to tedious scenarios and lag.
WAR doesn't even have a scenario that's comparable to WoW's Alterac Valley.
So, Age of Conan wasn't going to be good. BUT WARHAMMER!!! IT failed people it failed. And this game quite frankly failed beyond reason. I have to tell you this but, Warhammer is over, loads of people are going to quit, so I hope that EA Mythic can at least pay back all the debt it created making Warhammer. They will not make any money on this game
There's no reason to go back to the game, its pointless
So, Age of Conan wasn't going to be good. BUT WARHAMMER!!! IT failed people it failed. And this game quite frankly failed beyond reason. I have to tell you this but, Warhammer is over, loads of people are going to quit, so I hope that EA Mythic can at least pay back all the debt it created making Warhammer. They will not make any money on this game There's no reason to go back to the game, its pointless
Really, did you look at the recent posts, of all the fun people are having. WHY is it that important for you to see this fail. New content, readding chars that were pulled. Juggling updates and fixes. I mean these guys are working for this game and are working hard. Have some respect.
Its a shame when others wanna destroy something for others thats enjoyable. No point on you waking up tommorrow, with comments like this your life must consist of any positives. So please, stay asleep.
Atm its nothing more then kicking around sand at the playground.
Ya sure you got lvls and RRs ..but then..ya realy wanna grind em by 2 zergs killing each other over and over at a keep by spawnzerging??
Dont know, im sorry i nowadays want something more then a BF2 *fantasytype* capture the flag.
though i think theres a post of mine around where i asked if it is alike XD.
Sheesh i whish ya hardcore fans good luck with it my sub runs out january, ill look by every now and then´and cross my fingers for you that myth hits some *gamers* nerves
____________________ It`s alright
AC2,AO,D&L,Lotro,VsoH,SWG,Uo,HGL,Drunners,CoH,GW,Potbs,PWI Eq2,Dofus,WoW,WWIIO,Ryzom,Planetside,EvE,TR,DDO,RFonline,FOM,VC,..etc blabla also hobbies....staring at loadingbars
Well, MJ said in his letter that ORvR will be fixed in december, that will hopefully stopp people from quiting once that is in.
But I don't see it hit those 500K players that Barnett talked about, not ever.
It is very hard to get players back who quited, and it will get really hard competion from another RvR game next year, Guildwars 2. I don't see Arenanet releasing their game too early either and GW2 isn't the only game that will compete with WAR either next year.
It will be tough for Mythic, I don't know any actual numbers right now but they should be happy if they can have 300K players on a longer basis.
As the OP said, there is a lot of work for Mythic to do if they want to start growing, I would add that they need to fix more content also, those 4 cut out citys would be a good start.
I hope they pull it off, it seems like they are working really hard with the game right now.
While it is true that I do not play the game and have no clue if its worth it or not to play it. I just have to say that the conflicting sentiments are confusing to observers like me. I continue to look at this MMO because it has the highest user rating here on MMORPG. If it sucks so much why would that be? Have people just not gone back to adjust their ratings or taken the time to give ratings? I'm glad I've been reading thses posts because they tell a very different story from that rating. You have to be careful with these MMOs, they're almost never what's promised on the box or the website.
...The way things are going... WAR is pretty much going to fail... hard. It had good population to start with... but imo, it was released far too early and people have simply buggered off to other MMORPGs that are more balanced/polished. Over dramatic, just a tad? The game is not a failure. It was one of the most polished MMORPG launches I've ever partaken in (LotRO was in the same ball park). Yes, they screwed up by launching too many servers. The population is still fairly solid, when you factor in that people are now settling into sustainable weekly play schedules. Mythic is working hard at fixing what's broken and improving the game. It's only been out for two months!
However, bugs/imbalance/unppolishness aside... the MAIN problems i see here with WAR that NEED to be FIXED SOON are:
1. Population - there are too many servers and they need to be merged This is an invalid point (on US servers). Yes, too many servers at launch. However, there is the de facto server solution of consolidating the population via free character and guild transfers. They also very visibly warn people if they chose a low population server they are offering transfers away from. Same result as server mergers, but with out the mess. (NOTE: I realize that things are worse in the EU, with the company running the game there lagging behind on this issue. I get the impression Mythic isn't too pleased about this, but they have to work with in the structure of their contract to "encourage" the needed changes there). 2. Social aspects - we need item linking NOW and we need duelling NOW, as well as more emotes I want these things too. However, hardly game breaking... 3. More responsive combat - enough said. Enough said? Or complaint that can't be supported with specifics? It's not AoC combat, but it's pretty dynamic for a title that follows the traditional MMORPG mold. If you mean lagging animations or delays in action launch, those were fixed a while ago. Elaborate, please, because IMO combat is fine and even fun. 4. Some kind of renovation of the keep/battle field objective system. Frankly, PVEing undefended keeps and BOs all day isn't my idea of fun... and i happen to be on the most populated EU server. Even IF there isn't some kind of increased incentive for defending, at least make the PVE part more interesting (e.g. introduce a more complex mini game for Rams, instead of just a 'click on the line' game.......) We just got the letter from Mark Jacobs teasing a number of initiatives to improve and incentivize oRvR, keeps and battle field objectives. First steps in December, the rest in the coming months. Just the Live Event has increased oRvR on my US server. Played T3 keep battles for two hours tonight, organized offense against stiff player defense. A lot of fun. It all started just by asking in region if any RvR was going on. A single player was skirmishing in the RvR lake, invites went out, BOs fell and in no time there were full warbands on each side. Sometimes, it doesn't take a lot of initiative to get that snowball rolling. 5. General bugs... especially the obvious, simple ones e.g. the dismounting bug. I mean COMMON! HOW HARD IS IT TO FIX? They hot fix at least a couple times a week, on top of full patches. Bugs usually get squashed fairly quickly. Some seem to fall through the cracks for a while, but I've had many fixed with in a week of me reporting them. What dismounting bug, btw? I occasionally end up ankle deep in the terrain after dismounting, but such a cosmetic bug is hardly game breaking... 6. Make it easier to lock zones, and dont have Serpent's passage on the front all the time - or introduce a SINGLE QUEST for ALL the scenarios. The T4 control scheme is going to get some serious work, as per the letter yesterday. This is a serious issue. Hopefully it will be addressed soon, even if by band-aid while awaiting a more comprehensive overhaul. I agree Scenario quests need to be more accessible, to lessen the tendency for people to focus too much on one or two scenarios per tier. With the current Live Event, Mythic had a quest giver with in the Reikland Factory scenario. This, IMO, is the way to fix the problem. In addition to quest givers at the war camps, there should be one inside each scenario, in the spawn area. As much as I want to see this addressed, it's also hardly game breaking.
So yeah, coming from a former WAR fanboy, here are my thoughts. These issues really need to be addressed, otherwise this will be an empty game within a very short period of time. I mean, the biggest, bestest guild on destruction side on our server all just left for another game recently... they were Server Police of Eltharion. The game is pretty solid with tons of content addressing a number of play styles. Are there some flaws, even some serious flaws? Yes. However, most of them can and will be addressed eventually. For most people, there is still plenty to do, rather than obsessing over things you might want that aren't currently sufficiently addressed by the game. I'm a long time, jaded MMORPG vet. One thing I've learned is everyone "hits a wall" with even the best MMORPG. If you stick with a title, or even leave and return, you will hit that wall many times. Too many people blame the game, rather than just realizing they need a breather, or at least need to look for ways to mix up the way they approach the game. For me, personally, I'm pleasantly surprised that at the two month mark I haven't hit the wall yet. I'm still having fun and have barely scratched the surface of what the game offers. It's nice to have over 5 days played time on my main, on top of time with alts and still have a ton of content I haven't even touched yet. Mythic is working to address the remaining issues, as well as add new content as we move forward. I'm hard pressed to think of another MMORPG that has had as solid follow up and continuing development as this one has evidenced so far.
I dont know exactly why this game bores me so much but it might have something to do with it seeming like a single player game with other people running around doing the same things I am without ever LFG or saying anything.
You know, for the most part the only thing ever said is when you are in a scenario and people are mindlessly running around in 5 different directions dying over and over you get to hear them cry "HEAL" or "NO HEALS?" then another guy "Yeah man, I haven't been healed the whole time" and they just ignore the fact that they are all out of range of any healers, the players usually not dumb enough to just charge into a grp of 10 enemies and then wonder why they died are usually the healers. No tactics at all. No wonder there is no RVR.
So to me, this is kind of like what DAOC would have been like if we hadn't met new people at the beetles in Hib, Sals Plains in Alb, or Gotar in Mid, or practiced grouping with everyone xping in CM, Spind, and Cats. Everywhere you went in DAOC there was always somebody wanting to go check something out. Most people don't like to be forced to group but when its set up like it was in DAOC grouping is natural and its a lot of fun and can lead you to explore new places as you gain levels.
War is just set up wrong. Nobody does the pve and if they are they don't want to grp because its all mindless solo questing. If there was a little exploring with better xp I am sure more people would do it but now they are all zerging the scenarios.
So I blame Mythic for forgetting what they had and trying to clone WOW as a real PVP game without implementing their own things the right way. These people don't know how to RVR. This game has them from level 1 doing the same stupid crap they did in WOW BG's and rewarding them more than if they do anything else in the game, while solo and talking to no one.
Is it any wonder that most people are quitting? The people like me want to explore and meet people to group and RVR with. That isn't happening. The people who just like the RVR aren't getting it because there is no point to it. The people who like the scenarios have fun for a while but you can only do so many scenarios.
Basically what I mean to say is that in DAOC people only really bitched about class balance before TOA. We had a lot of fun in the game though. What was important to most was their Realm and defending it, DF, their guild, and farming plats for that MP set and RVR.
What's considered the whines and important things to WAR players?
Players are whining about every aspect of the game and its not about the guild, or the realm, its about the drop. For instance, its better to let the bad guys take a keep so you can take it again for more stuff.
For instance, its better to let the bad guys take a keep so you can take it again for more stuff. Who came up with this idea? Shoot him please.
You are totally correct on this point.
However, in a recent letter by Mark Jacobs, he says everything will be fixed.
I mean, yesterday there was a live event to kill 15 players in oRvR... and it was the best oRvR there's ever been in any game probably. Around 300 players slugging it out for about 7 hours yesterday.. was totally epic:
Folks,
Over the last few months I’ve spoken about our continued focus on improving our open RvR systems. While we have taken some major steps in the last month, we believe that there is much more we can do to encourage people to take part in oRvR throughout the entire evolution of their character(s). Over the next few months we have some very exciting changes and additions taking place. Please note that as always, this does not represent everything that either we are doing or thinking about doing, just what we, as of now, plan on adding to WAR.
We have a number of major initiatives planned for oRvR in WAR. Please keep in mind that these changes/systems apply to oRvR only and not to scenarios. This is not all we are working on but these do reflect the majority of oRvR additions that we are currently working on/planning for the next few months.
First, we have created an RvR Influence system. This system is designed to reward our oRvR players with lots of new stuff that you can only get through oRvR. This will be a complimentary system to our PQ Influence system. This system is already implemented in 1.1 and is scheduled to go LIVE along with that version in December.
Second, we want to improve the visibility that players have into oRvR and make it easier for players to get involved in the action quickly and easily. We have a number of wide-ranging changes going into our map and travel systems to allow players to better understand the state of oRvR in our game and also allow them to get to the action faster. We have already taken one step with putting a Rally Master in each Warcamp but we will also add the ability for people to have a second bind point to make it even easier for players to move around the maps. We will also make it easy for players to see where players from their Realm are engaging in oRvR, a Campaign HUD for all tiers and other improvements. We will also improve Tier-wide messaging about what is going on in Battlefield Objectives and Keeps. Other additions include changes to the UI, in-game manual improvements, map enhancements, and a few other changes.
Third, we want to provide greater incentives to players to participate in oRvR. In order to accomplish this we will be adding additional layers to the questing system of oRvR including the addition of Keep Quests, “Daily Event Quests”, Chained RvR Missions, improve the initial Tome Unlocks and other oRvR-oriented Events. We will also improve our BO itemization. Our goal is to provide players with even more incentive for participating in oRvR than we have already.
Fourth, we want to encourage guilds to take and control keeps, and we will continue our work on adding better rewards for Guilds who own Keeps as well as the addition of a system of Keep upgrades. This system will be added to the game in several stages beginning in the late winter.
Finally, we will begin work on a global oRvR “Fame” system that will be tied directly to the Tome of Knowledge which will provide more rewards, titles, experience, etc. for participating and being successful in oRvR. This system will provide even more incentives for people to participate in oRvR than the current systems and one that fits nicely both with the ToK’s concept as “This is your life” as well as an additional advancement and reward system.
Please keep in mind that these additions are subject to change and given the nature of these changes/improvements, they will not go LIVE until we have thoroughly tested them. However, these are crucial improvements to WAR and are being treated as such by the team.
Finally, I want to close this out with a brief explanation about the role that we believe that oRvR should play in WAR. It’s really as simple as this, oRvR should be a major focus for leveling, item gain, etc. in WAR. Some of the systems are already in place and in Tier 4, oRvR is alive and well. On other Tiers, however, oRvR is not being engaged in as often as we had hoped when we launched WAR. Our goal is to ensure that oRvR is the place where players can level the fastest, get the best items and overall, have a great time while doing it. It is supposed to be riskier, more challenging but ultimately, more rewarding than any other place within WAR. What is outlined in this letter are some of the ways we plan on making this happen over the next few months and beyond.
As always, we thank you for your patronage and support. We won’t let you down.
It's all a question of time. PvP based game - sigh -.
I now understand why Mythic wanted to push it out 2 months before WotLK - at all costs (empire tank class deleted and cities removed etc...).Eventually everyone will get to see the new PvP battles in WotLK.
If anyone is going to say after having played these new battles, they still want War's PvP, I suggest giving them a pair of new glasses, a new keyboard, a new computer and probably new brains as well.
You don't have any idea... what a siege battle is in MMORPG's before playing WotLK.
and NO ! this is not pushing you to "come play my beloved game". It is not.
Please stay with War !
be happy with it, but I do know if the majority of players will meet these new PvP fights in the coming weeks, WAR servers may as well be closed. I would say the difference in PvP battlefields is now 4 years and millions of development money.
Only people who will want RvR - with lesser fun PvP - will stay, but I doubt it will be enough to let the game survive in the greedy hands of EA.
However, in a recent letter by Mark Jacobs, he says everything will be fixed.
I guess this is the root of many posts. Do you trust this guy? Some say yes, some say no. This is essentially the heart of the matter here.
Some people read what he said in development, then through beta and then at release. They do not agree with your above quote and say he has proven he exaggerated pretty wildly about what this game was to be.
However,there are some who while knowing very little about him other than he helped make a MMO, fully believe in what he says.
This again, is the root of each post. Some say he said this and didn't come through, some say he said that and is going to come through.
However, in a recent letter by Mark Jacobs, he says everything will be fixed.
I guess this is the root of many posts. Do you trust this guy? Some say yes, some say no. This is essentially the heart of the matter here.
Some people read what he said in development, then through beta and then at release. They do not agree with your above quote and say he has proven he exaggerated pretty wildly about what this game was to be.
However,there are some who while knowing very little about him other than he helped make a MMO, fully believe in what he says.
This again, is the root of each post. Some say he said this and didn't come through, some say he said that and is going to come through.
Only time will tell which side is right.
He's a little like Richard Garriot, isn't he? He did something good a long time ago, so players expected something great out of his new project. Some players will give him every benefit of the doubt (there are still players in TR that say TR failed because RG wasn't given enough power).
I personally think he is nothing special. He is responsible for making scenariors 'the game' and for not realizing that keep swapping would be rampent. If he overlooked those 'minor' details last time, what do you think will go wrong with his drastic half-assed bandaids he's going to throw out in 3 months.
Its actually amazing that Mythic have managed to make an RvR game where the players can take control of keeps and yet actually forgot to include a reason for the players to take them LMAO!!!!! This has to be the most hilarious f**kup in game design that I have seen for ages!! No I dont mean award the victors more experience points and items. Whats the point in that? Thats not a reason! No Mythic I mean REAL strategic reasons.......not superficial ones that the players earn automatically by playing the game anyway. Whats also rather amazing is the fact that so many players havent even noticed!!! Everyone is so bloody obsessed with leveling their own individual characters as they have done for years in WoW that they cant even see that the reason why WAR is so useless is because there isnt actually anything to gain by taking part in it. Whats the point of having Keeps in the game when you can just ignore them and carry on mindlessly following the levelling treadmill? Mythic have completely wasted their time with this joke of a game. I dont think I have ever seen a war game where the designers actually forgot to give a reason for the players to take over things It looks like the developers at Mythic were so addicted to playing WoW that their brains just couldnt comprehend how anything else might work lol
Yeah its really astounding frankly.
It actually kind of bugs me, because I just can't quite understand how professionals who supposedly did this before could neglect this. I went in kind of assuming the Victory points made sense at some point even though they didn't seem to in open beta. Eventually I came to the conclusion that they were borked. Then finally, after a month of forum begging, Mythic explained them and although I had already gotten msot of the information it confirmed what i had already pretty much figured out. Their zone objective and campaign progress design is worthless. Completely lacks any ability to accomplish its purpose. In fact it works conttary to its purpose.
There has to be some reason other than rampant stupidity or blindness. There just has to be, right? Meh I dunno. Its cooked, been cooked for a while.
It's all a conspiracy to make blizzard sell more expansion packs.
I will also second that WAR is a bad game. When it released, i was here, thinking it was going to be great, and it turned out to be an incredibly big dissapointment. Besides, i don't think a bad reputation can kill a game, not if it is really good.
About the people quiting, i know many feel this is exagerated, but at the end of the free month the EU servers where ghost towns, even the most populated.
oh and,
Its Mañana (spanish keyboard ) and its called an Enie (the E pronunced as in Elephant and the i as in Pizza).
However, in a recent letter by Mark Jacobs, he says everything will be fixed.
I guess this is the root of many posts. Do you trust this guy? Some say yes, some say no. This is essentially the heart of the matter here.
Some people read what he said in development, then through beta and then at release. They do not agree with your above quote and say he has proven he exaggerated pretty wildly about what this game was to be.
However,there are some who while knowing very little about him other than he helped make a MMO, fully believe in what he says.
This again, is the root of each post. Some say he said this and didn't come through, some say he said that and is going to come through.
Only time will tell which side is right.
He's a little like Richard Garriot, isn't he? He did something good a long time ago, so players expected something great out of his new project. Some players will give him every benefit of the doubt (there are still players in TR that say TR failed because RG wasn't given enough power).
I personally think he is nothing special. He is responsible for making scenariors 'the game' and for not realizing that keep swapping would be rampent. If he overlooked those 'minor' details last time, what do you think will go wrong with his drastic half-assed bandaids he's going to throw out in 3 months.
Stick to your WoW forums, then again your hated there as well.
These guys have been listening and mixing things up. There doin a greatjob with there responses.
YEah, I trust the guy. I give him a chance. But thats me, maybe peoples lives that revolve around video games may be diffrent. But wh hate on him? He tried, made some mistakes and is fixing them. You never made a mistake before?
Originally posted by Gregtheexcon Stick to your WoW forums, then again your hated there as well. These guys have been listening and mixing things up. There doin a greatjob with there responses. YEah, I trust the guy. I give him a chance. But thats me, maybe peoples lives that revolve around video games may be diffrent. But wh hate on him? He tried, made some mistakes and is fixing them. You never made a mistake before?
Releasing the game early was not a mistake, it was a calculated risk. Mark and Mythic knew what they were up against and instead of pushing the games release back they chose to release early on order to beat Lich King. I do not envy the situation they were in, but I also hold them responsible for their choice to do so.
Mark/Paul promised they would not release the game until "it is great, not good, but great". I am not hating on Mythic, but they need to be held accountable for this and not praised for fixing a situation they knowingly put themselves in. The only reason they appear to be doing a great job is because they completely dropped the ball on the biggest parts of the game.
Anyone can trust Mythic and give them all the chances in the world. The problem is they can do that while taking their subscription dollars to another MMO and watching from the sidelines. The entire point that original poster was making is getting mired up with allegations of haters/fanboys and none of that matters.
The original poster is correct in his assesment of the games harsh situation. Time is not an ally right now regardless of how anyone of us feel about the game.
Originally posted by Gregtheexcon Stick to your WoW forums, then again your hated there as well. These guys have been listening and mixing things up. There doin a greatjob with there responses. YEah, I trust the guy. I give him a chance. But thats me, maybe peoples lives that revolve around video games may be diffrent. But wh hate on him? He tried, made some mistakes and is fixing them. You never made a mistake before?
Releasing the game early was not a mistake, it was a calculated risk. Mark and Mythic knew what they were up against and instead of pushing the games release back they chose to release early on order to beat Lich King. I do not envy the situation they were in, but I also hold them responsible for their choice to do so.
Mark/Paul promised they would not release the game until "it is great, not good, but great". I am not hating on Mythic, but they need to be held accountable for this and not praised for fixing a situation they knowingly put themselves in. The only reason they appear to be doing a great job is because they completely dropped the ball on the biggest parts of the game.
Anyone can trust Mythic and give them all the chances in the world. The problem is they can do that while taking their subscription dollars to another MMO and watching from the sidelines. The entire point that original poster was making is getting mired up with allegations of haters/fanboys and none of that matters.
The original poster is correct in his assesment of the games harsh situation. Time is not an ally right now regardless of how anyone of us feel about the game.
Every day that passes and people see the difference between WotLK and War, the going gets tougher for Mythic.
Indeed Mythic simply had NO choice: it was publishing before WotLK or not publishing at all.
They wanted to grab the market to stay in the competition, but they missed the target by along shot . Now everyone sees the difference (for those who want to see of course).
EA will unplug it in 6 months time. The gap is just too big between what War shows now and what WotLK offers. Those who say WotLK has no PvP should get their heads examined and the PVE difference is not even worth discussing.
90% of the War players are (ex) Wow players, it is enough they meet with their friends and see for themselves the PvP features of WotLK. It's insane what Blizzard did.
Seems like with the recent spate of mmo failures it has become popular to blame the players. Meanwhile WOW who a lot of people say has one of the crappiest communities is 11 + million strong.
If you make it ( a great game ) they will come. It's that simple.
QFT. People blaming Blizzard for making a good game, are being unreasonable. Blizzard pretty much from the outset said. All they wanted to do was make a "fun" MMORPG set in the Warcraft universe. I honestly can't remember them making any grand claims like so many other recently released MMO's did. (Vanguard, Warhammer, Aoc, etc etc)
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
I'll counter you by listing WoW complaints... 4 YEARS after release: 1. Extremely linear leveling. This wouldn't be so terrible if there wasn't just one route to go... which merges for both factions very fast. Replay value: 0.0. Try leaving the starting area before you open your mouth, there's a bunch of places to go at levels, and you don't have to go to the zones. Sure you can argue that everyone just goes to the same areas. And for the xpacs i'll agree. But not for the base game. 2. Extreme lack of variety within classes. You have 3 talent trees and that's it. Just like WAR's, only WoWs offer way more customization(especially now). Rather than WAR's terrible trees.(it sickened me how slow you got points and how few you got.) 3. Classes are lackluster and unimaginative. Both factions have the same bland classes that share similar mechanics (mana....) 9 classes(10 now). And at release shaman and paladin's were split. Heres the thing? Why would mages be different on both sides, why would warlocks and priests(priests were different), rogues, be different?
should they have just invented a bunch of terrible classes, or create strong ones? Heck even the "mirrors" in wow can't get along with each other, with sorcerors bashing BW, etc etc. 4. Timesinks at any possible opportunity. Mana and hp regeneration is unbearably slow. Horrible flight times, broken LFG-ing requiring you ages to find that group. etc etc. Mana and hp regen for wow were one of the fastest ever made at release, obviously you haven't played eqoa or daoc(whereas in daoc if you were a melee class you basically had more downtime then fighting) in wow, you always had food/water, and bandages to get yourself going. Maybe you were too much of a scrub to know how to drink/eat/bandage?
And hell if you put effort into it, you could get groups for any instance you want. Try it in WAR for PQs, nobody in the zone will want to do em, your guild doesn't want to do them, random people don't want to do them.
WAR has the worst group content ever made. 5. Fixed number of players PvE instances which are severely increasing LFG times and putting arbitrary limitations to group compositions. Endless grief there "we can't go, we don't have a fifth" . "Sorry we'll kick you out now, even though you waited for an hour because you're one too many." What game are you playing? Can you do pqs without a tank in war? if its a very easy one, can you do it without a healer? same story. Same for the WAR dungeons. Are you honestly saying no WAR group will ever need a tank or a healer, and fall apart because of it?
And groups cap at 5, unless you converted to a raid(why would you for grouping, only a idiot would do this. The only reason to wait a hour is a lazy leader. I have never heard anyone in WoW getting kicked because there was too many, only people not being able to join the group because they wanted to bring their friend/guildies, and how is that a complaint? 6. Completely dead lower level content. A huge part of the game has no other purpose then just another tedious timesink until you get to the "actual" game. Except for the fact that i've leveled over 30 characters in wow, over the course of 4 years, and i've always had more lively group content than WAR, even for isolated group pve areas like the old stromgarde castle in arathi. Let alone you can actually get people to run instances, and you can't get people to do pqs. 7. THE major gameplay modes do not exist until you're max level. In essence you need to "work" your character until you get to max level where you finally get to "play". You are missing... Raids... Rated arena... you still can quest, do dungeons, do battlegrounds, and have some world pvp while leveling. It's the same as WAR, you can't siege t4 keeps and take cities untill the highest levels either.
And even now, you have more legitimate small group(5 man heroic, 10 man raids) than you ever used to. 8. Completely dead and static world as a whole. Players have absolutely NO import whatsoever on the world. It just lies there, dead and uncaring. And everything you do in WAR resets in a couple minutes, while you are in there, with a big reset timer. Theres nothing that takes you more out of the game than that. What do you do of importance in WAR? Capture a keep? big deal, it's not important to the world, and it changes color, whoopdeedoo. WAR's world is deader than dead though. 9. Horrible character customization, both at character creation and later on in the game. Ok they introduced titles now, after only FOUR YEARS of player appeals... But there is no armor dying for example, nothing whatsoever to distinguish you visually. Nothing. Armor dyeing doesn't work in WoW, because they use color changes to differentiate different gear. WAR goes the other way, everyone uses the EXACT SAME ARMOR MODELS FOR THEIR TIER.(which is far worse) admittedly it was restricted visual customization. WAR is worse imho 10. No housing, not even communal. Nothing to call your own in the world. everyone wants housing, but it's not a necessary feature. 11. Completely inexistent world PvP. And no that WoTLK thing does not apply - its just another BG without designated number of players. thats all pvp in war is. 12. Lack of class synergies, especially in PvP. Each class plays on its own. Completely selfish and autistic PvP. You just showed you've never competed in arenas. 13. Horrible instanced PvE design. Each one of those "challenging" dungeons is completely static - you just need to learn those steps and dance the dance. There is no need to think on one's feet - just follow the steps. We talking about WAR here? In the mount hyjal raid instance alone there was more group dynamics than all pve content in WAR combined. Again you prove you've never played the content you love to open your mouth about. 14. Just 4 (now 5, whooohoo) BGs. Pathetic and insulting. Online FPSs which don't require monthly subs customarily ship with DOUBLE the amount of PvP arenas. Look at WAR, 90% of the bgs are trashy small copys of each other, and out of those 90% only about 20% of those are even played much at all. 15. Badly designed BGs. They either drag on to eternity or are farmed by "who cares" leechers. Probably the worst instanced PvP I saw in ANY game. Then you haven't seen WAR's. In the beginning AV was the hardest bg and could last over 24 hours, it was epic battles far greater than anything that WAR will EVER EVER see.
WSG is the only one now that can "Stall forever" and even then you just needed teamwork. 16. PvP itself is almost entirely gear dependent. Utterly ridiculous for more reasons than I can count here. Go PvP naked in WAR, go ahead. try it. 17. Almost complete lack of open world group PvE content. Good, because if it's anything like WAR's it'd be utter shit. This is ignoring the fact that there were 4 green dragons, a blue dragon, and a demon to raid in pve pre tbc, but it wasn't a feature people particularly liked, it showed the same things that made EQ1 BLOW. 18. Dreadful farming required at almost any step of the game. Reputations, crafting materials, percentage drops from quests, honor, arena points... It's just brain-dead AFK farming required to get almost anywhere n that game. Reputations that offer better rewards then the influence you have to grind in WAR.
At least it has a crafting material.
Quests were designed to have you kill X amount of mobs to get you X amount of exp, so by the time you finish the zone you were at X level ready to go somewhere else. The low drop rate items, are the ones that replace quests thet'd be large kill numbers instead. Honor... hmmm just like WAR's renown! Arena points? Try afk farming these, please, a good team can get more points in a month then bad teams can get in a year. Not even counting the fact that now all epic pvp gear requires ratings(which is bigger skill checks then anything WAR has) Admittedly WAR's lack of quest item grinding was nice, but at the same time, WARs content is much more like a machine of exp, rather than a world with quests. I'd rather grind boar livers then do WAR's quests. 19. Pathetic attempts at tongue-in-cheek out-of-lore pop reference humor. It is almost as if the devs are making fun of players actually attempting to take that, already pretty thin, lore seriously. Theres more lore in WoW then in WAR, and it's much better written. The only reason why WAR even has a semblence of any "lore" is that the characters they use and the stuff they do, has lore that was made for them. Blizzard made all the warcraft games, and they made wow, it's their lore. They didn't NEED to leach someone elses.
Mythic is a pathetic company who lucked out with DAoC, but realized their own IP was really weak, so they just went for WAR, which imho is a big mistake, since the game is so limited by the lore, that they need to run checks on what they can or can not do, not only within their own company, and their writers, but with both EA, and GW 20. Cross server scenarios - any idea of any PvP rivalry on server level is completely gone now. Who cares about anything? I just want my honor points... At least you can PvP, instead of WARs, "let's take this empty keep". or "wait a second, my tier of scenarios are empty and i have to wait a hour between scenarios. 21. Character movement and interaction feels cartoony. No feeling of solidity that most other mmos like LoTRO, WAR and AoC have. It is almost like Super Mario in the land of MMOs. Completely laughable, LoTRO has TERRIBLE models and animations, WAR has TERRIBLE animations that BARELY work in combat. AoC has good looking models, but there are bad animations here and there. 22. Insultingly slow time Bliz takes to address player concerns and requests. As I mentioned before my hunter was nerfed to utter oblivion and I couldn't get into a group for 6 months before Bliz decided to do something about it. Hunter's had a bad period, every class has. WAR has 4 worthless classes(eng/magus/sw/sh). As guess what? archers. It's a hard class to balance. Your fooling yourself if any other game has never had bad/unbalanced times for it's classes. Blizz is slow to address issues, because they want to do it right, they don't want to just add in a patch to fix a imbalance, just to cause other problems. 23. Overall the game requires horrifying amounts of time to enjoy. If you want to see those vaunted end-game raids you'd better say good bye to your real life.. or at least make it completely subservient to the game. It does take a lot of time, because there are a lot of things to do, and a lot of reasons to do them. What reason is there to play WAR? Fun PvP? Maybe if it has PvE to allow players to not burn out. And PvP that was actually... fun instead of a leveling grind? I'd rather go play a FPS then suffer through WAR's issues. Want me to list some more? Some real ones, or ones with a point would be great. My point is that WoW can go on with those kinds of serious flaws that haven't been addressed in YEARS, while WAR is butchered and killed on these and other forums for a much much smaller number of grievances. Sorry but this strikes me as colossaly unfair and frankly very very fishy. Yeah because it's unfair that WAR's world is almost empty less then a week after release. With a super silent community, and bad content seperation. I played WoW since its release and I play WAR now. I'll say that WAR, with all its current flaws, is a much much better game - both potentially AND in actuallity than WoW. That's my opinion and the opinion of RL people that play with me. If you've actually played wow that long(which you haven't, it's obvious to everyone who has played wow and reads your posts). then you'd know that WAR is not even close to wow in any terms. The ONE THING that is a real, serious problem with WAR now is that there are too many servers - and there were too many of them since the beginning. The game really didn't have the opportunity to take off because you need to have a certain population for this group-oriented game to really shine. Now the problem is getting worse because it is a vicious circle - a lot of my pals retained their subs but stopped playing "until the population picks up." It is not going to happen this way - Mythic needs to bite the bullet and do massive server merges right now and EA be damned. They need to completely destroy their server structure, and instead make 1 server with different character servers, and better/stronger systems to support the increased playerbase.
How are there gonna be 3 campaigns going on at once with the other 2 capitols when theres barely enough to even do one?
War isn't that great, even oldschool DAoC(both before and after ToA) is better than what war is now.
I'll counter you by listing WoW complaints... 4 YEARS after release: 1. Extremely linear leveling. This wouldn't be so terrible if there wasn't just one route to go... which merges for both factions very fast. Replay value: 0.0. Try leaving the starting area before you open your mouth, there's a bunch of places to go at levels, and you don't have to go to the zones. Sure you can argue that everyone just goes to the same areas. And for the xpacs i'll agree. But not for the base game. I have three 70s and have been playing WoW since the Euro release. I'm not talking about the starting areas - I'm talking about the fact that starting at level 25 you go pretty much the same route.... even if you play different factions. 2. Extreme lack of variety within classes. You have 3 talent trees and that's it. Just like WAR's, only WoWs offer way more customization(especially now). Rather than WAR's terrible trees.(it sickened me how slow you got points and how few you got.) Completely wrong. For some reason you are completely unable to think outside of what WoW has - talent trees. WAR has tactics sets and morale sets which add two COMPLETELY different layers to customization. WoW has 1-d customization, WAR has 3-d. 3. Classes are lackluster and unimaginative. Both factions have the same bland classes that share similar mechanics (mana....) 9 classes(10 now). And at release shaman and paladin's were split. Heres the thing? Why would mages be different on both sides, why would warlocks and priests(priests were different), rogues, be different?
should they have just invented a bunch of terrible classes, or create strong ones? Heck even the "mirrors" in wow can't get along with each other, with sorcerors bashing BW, etc etc. The variety in mechanics between different classes in WAR is much greater than in WoW. While WoW does have variety there is no outright craziness like WB and melee-specced WP. 4. Timesinks at any possible opportunity. Mana and hp regeneration is unbearably slow. Horrible flight times, broken LFG-ing requiring you ages to find that group. etc etc. Mana and hp regen for wow were one of the fastest ever made at release, obviously you haven't played eqoa or daoc(whereas in daoc if you were a melee class you basically had more downtime then fighting) in wow, you always had food/water, and bandages to get yourself going. Maybe you were too much of a scrub to know how to drink/eat/bandage?
There is a fundamental difference in the way core mechanics work. In WoW and previous games you had resource X - and the longer you played this X got smaller until you had to stop fighting to replenish it. WAR is completely different - this resource X actually grows while you play until you either succeed in what you are trying to do or die. If we'd draw the "character power" or "excitement" curve during a fight, WoW/EQ etc would be a logarythmic downward one while WAR's is an exponential growth one. And hell if you put effort into it, you could get groups for any instance you want. Try it in WAR for PQs, nobody in the zone will want to do em, your guild doesn't want to do them, random people don't want to do them.
That's your problem. I never had any problem with finding people for PQs. Could be my sociable personality. The main difference between WAR PQs and WOW instancing is that you have to WAIT, DOING NOTHING while forming a WoW PUG. On the other hand you can PLAY AND HAVE FUN in WAR while the PQ band is formed. WAR has the worst group content ever made.
I completely disagree with you and I cannot imagine what experiences you had to come to this conclusion. I really cannot. 5. Fixed number of players PvE instances which are severely increasing LFG times and putting arbitrary limitations to group compositions. Endless grief there "we can't go, we don't have a fifth" . "Sorry we'll kick you out now, even though you waited for an hour because you're one too many." What game are you playing? Can you do pqs without a tank in war? if its a very easy one, can you do it without a healer? same story. Same for the WAR dungeons. Are you honestly saying no WAR group will ever need a tank or a healer, and fall apart because of it?
Agree, tank and healer is still mandatory for serious group content. I don't like it really but hey nothing is perfect. And groups cap at 5, unless you converted to a raid(why would you for grouping, only a idiot would do this. The only reason to wait a hour is a lazy leader. I have never heard anyone in WoW getting kicked because there was too many, only people not being able to join the group because they wanted to bring their friend/guildies, and how is that a complaint? Exactly - 5 man limit is extremely dumb. Sorry but it is. Unnecessary spilitting people and crap. IN WAR you can take that extra guy or two along - you'll get a bit smaller rewards but hey why not. Elitism is killed in its root here. 6. Completely dead lower level content. A huge part of the game has no other purpose then just another tedious timesink until you get to the "actual" game. Except for the fact that i've leveled over 30 characters in wow, over the course of 4 years, and i've always had more lively group content than WAR, even for isolated group pve areas like the old stromgarde castle in arathi. Let alone you can actually get people to run instances, and you can't get people to do pqs. That's your experience again. I'm playing a lot of PQs and players who know what they're doing won't hesitate a second for an opportunity to complete PQs because they give the best loot available at that rank. 7. THE major gameplay modes do not exist until you're max level. In essence you need to "work" your character until you get to max level where you finally get to "play". You are missing... Raids... Rated arena... you still can quest, do dungeons, do battlegrounds, and have some world pvp while leveling. It's the same as WAR, you can't siege t4 keeps and take cities untill the highest levels either.
And even now, you have more legitimate small group(5 man heroic, 10 man raids) than you ever used to. Since WoW is a gear-centric game there is no point in working at getting gear before max level. WAR is a RvR centric game and killing other players, taking BOs and keeps, leveling your guild, gaining renown ranks and tome unlocks etc is meaningful from level 1. 8. Completely dead and static world as a whole. Players have absolutely NO import whatsoever on the world. It just lies there, dead and uncaring. And everything you do in WAR resets in a couple minutes, while you are in there, with a big reset timer. Theres nothing that takes you more out of the game than that. What do you do of importance in WAR? Capture a keep? big deal, it's not important to the world, and it changes color, whoopdeedoo. WAR's world is deader than dead though. On my server we're having daily scheduled meetings of guild leaders where we coordinate guild and alliance roles and tasks respective to the daily changing situation in the T3 and T4 zones. That's pretty effing alive I'd say. Sorry but in WoW you got "We killed that boss first, nah nah nah!" for "living world". 9. Horrible character customization, both at character creation and later on in the game. Ok they introduced titles now, after only FOUR YEARS of player appeals... But there is no armor dying for example, nothing whatsoever to distinguish you visually. Nothing. Armor dyeing doesn't work in WoW, because they use color changes to differentiate different gear. WAR goes the other way, everyone uses the EXACT SAME ARMOR MODELS FOR THEIR TIER.(which is far worse) You have no idea what you're talking about. The differences in armor models are a bit more subtle but thank god in heaven there are no ridiculous travesties like those dreadful shoulde pieces I was forced to wear in WoW. Lol - i got effing CANDLES in my shoulders?!?! W T F?!!? admittedly it was restricted visual customization. WAR is worse imho 10. No housing, not even communal. Nothing to call your own in the world. everyone wants housing, but it's not a necessary feature. 11. Completely inexistent world PvP. And no that WoTLK thing does not apply - its just another BG without designated number of players. thats all pvp in war is. That's what you think buddy. Obviously you missed the whole strategic component of the game that you get with having three parallel battlegrounds running at the same time. WAR RvR would suck if it was just one zone at each tier.. but it's not - and that's what makes it great. 12. Lack of class synergies, especially in PvP. Each class plays on its own. Completely selfish and autistic PvP. You just showed you've never competed in arenas. Oh yes I did. And it is exactly as I said. A couple of gimmicks that make certain class combos insanely overpowered cannot even begin to compare with the synergies you got in WAR. Each and I mean each 2-class combination is different and viable. Have you even tried to buddy up with other players beyond rank 20? 13. Horrible instanced PvE design. Each one of those "challenging" dungeons is completely static - you just need to learn those steps and dance the dance. There is no need to think on one's feet - just follow the steps. We talking about WAR here? In the mount hyjal raid instance alone there was more group dynamics than all pve content in WAR combined. Again you prove you've never played the content you love to open your mouth about. I've played Mount Hyal. Have you been to Bastion Stair? No you haven't because I remember you quit waaay before anyone managed to get there, disgusted amongst other things you thought that those mini-instances in the capital were representative of raid PvE in WAR. You have no idea what you're talking about, sorry to say. 14. Just 4 (now 5, whooohoo) BGs. Pathetic and insulting. Online FPSs which don't require monthly subs customarily ship with DOUBLE the amount of PvP arenas. Look at WAR, 90% of the bgs are trashy small copys of each other, and out of those 90% only about 20% of those are even played much at all. 15. Badly designed BGs. They either drag on to eternity or are farmed by "who cares" leechers. Probably the worst instanced PvP I saw in ANY game. Then you haven't seen WAR's. In the beginning AV was the hardest bg and could last over 24 hours, it was epic battles far greater than anything that WAR will EVER EVER see.
Oh I agree that old AV was fantastic. My personal favorite was Korrak the insane troll in the middle of the map. Actually when they nerfed AV to make it the idiocy it is now was the first time I quit WoW. Sorry but what was AV then I got on my server every night WAR. WSG is the only one now that can "Stall forever" and even then you just needed teamwork. 16. PvP itself is almost entirely gear dependent. Utterly ridiculous for more reasons than I can count here. Go PvP naked in WAR, go ahead. try it. You're confusing the issue. It's not about going naked but gear differences between players. Duh. Don't play dumb. 17. Almost complete lack of open world group PvE content. Good, because if it's anything like WAR's it'd be utter shit. This is ignoring the fact that there were 4 green dragons, a blue dragon, and a demon to raid in pve pre tbc, but it wasn't a feature people particularly liked, it showed the same things that made EQ1 BLOW. I really have no idea what you got against PQs. What didn't no one like you enough to play with? I'd play WAR for PQs only. They are AWESOME. I usually play with my wife and we always got bored to tears questing in WoW.. here in WAR we go PQ hunting, meet a bunch of people on the way who are all eager to join for those sweet drops and enerally have loads of fun - completely spontaneously. This is a far cry from "you're stealing my kills noob" which is the norm in WoW. 18. Dreadful farming required at almost any step of the game. Reputations, crafting materials, percentage drops from quests, honor, arena points... It's just brain-dead AFK farming required to get almost anywhere n that game. Reputations that offer better rewards then the influence you have to grind in WAR.
A WAR's influence can be easily maxed out in a couple oh hours. If that's grind then I don't know what isn't. At least it has a crafting material.
Again it is quite obvious you haven't gotten far in WAR lol. Quests were designed to have you kill X amount of mobs to get you X amount of exp, so by the time you finish the zone you were at X level ready to go somewhere else. The low drop rate items, are the ones that replace quests thet'd be large kill numbers instead. Very nice.. in theory. In actuality it is plain pointless frustration they haven't gotten around to fixing it because they don't really give a crap. Honor... hmmm just like WAR's renown! Arena points? Try afk farming these, please, a good team can get more points in a month then bad teams can get in a year. Not even counting the fact that now all epic pvp gear requires ratings(which is bigger skill checks then anything WAR has) Admittedly WAR's lack of quest item grinding was nice, but at the same time, WARs content is much more like a machine of exp, rather than a world with quests. I'd rather grind boar livers then do WAR's quests. 19. Pathetic attempts at tongue-in-cheek out-of-lore pop reference humor. It is almost as if the devs are making fun of players actually attempting to take that, already pretty thin, lore seriously. Theres more lore in WoW then in WAR, and it's much better written. The only reason why WAR even has a semblence of any "lore" is that the characters they use and the stuff they do, has lore that was made for them. Blizzard made all the warcraft games, and they made wow, it's their lore. They didn't NEED to leach someone elses. What you said here is so wrong on so many levels that it bears warrants no lengthy response. I suppose LoTRO is "leeching" lore from Tolkien then? Oh and this new Star Wars mmo is obviously based on existing IP because them dumb devs couldn't think up their own? Oh come on!
Mythic is a pathetic company who lucked out with DAoC, but realized their own IP was really weak, so they just went for WAR, which imho is a big mistake, since the game is so limited by the lore, that they need to run checks on what they can or can not do, not only within their own company, and their writers, but with both EA, and GW ZOMG, have you ever studied Warhammer lore? It is so crazily immense that they can do 10 WARs without having to "invent" anything. Warhammer lore is quite infamous in the industry for total crazy amount of it - complete overkill. 20. Cross server scenarios - any idea of any PvP rivalry on server level is completely gone now. Who cares about anything? I just want my honor points... At least you can PvP, instead of WARs, "let's take this empty keep". or "wait a second, my tier of scenarios are empty and i have to wait a hour between scenarios. I spent 4 hours the day before yesterday in utterly crazy RvR in Praag. 100s of players. Guild banners flying, being taken left and right. Human scenarios (not serpents) being popping constantly to stem the red tide. Sheer awesome. I'm sorry your impressions of the game are so different for mine. I really am sorry for you because you are missing so much due to being terminally disappointed during the first few weeks after release. 21. Character movement and interaction feels cartoony. No feeling of solidity that most other mmos like LoTRO, WAR and AoC have. It is almost like Super Mario in the land of MMOs. Completely laughable, LoTRO has TERRIBLE models and animations, WAR has TERRIBLE animations that BARELY work in combat. AoC has good looking models, but there are bad animations here and there. 22. Insultingly slow time Bliz takes to address player concerns and requests. As I mentioned before my hunter was nerfed to utter oblivion and I couldn't get into a group for 6 months before Bliz decided to do something about it. Hunter's had a bad period, every class has. WAR has 4 worthless classes(eng/magus/sw/sh). As guess what? archers. It's a hard class to balance. Your fooling yourself if any other game has never had bad/unbalanced times for it's classes. If you think magi and engineers are worthless then you're very sadly mistaken. SH and SW are being balanced in the next patch 2 months after release, along with all other classes and their issues. Blizz is slow to address issues, because they want to do it right, they don't want to just add in a patch to fix a imbalance, just to cause other problems. Yeah right. Jeez... 23. Overall the game requires horrifying amounts of time to enjoy. If you want to see those vaunted end-game raids you'd better say good bye to your real life.. or at least make it completely subservient to the game. It does take a lot of time, because there are a lot of things to do, and a lot of reasons to do them. What reason is there to play WAR? Fun PvP? Maybe if it has PvE to allow players to not burn out. And PvP that was actually... fun instead of a leveling grind? I'd rather go play a FPS then suffer through WAR's issues. You very obviously haven't gotten too far in WAR and you left before the game even really started. If I left WoW 2 weeks after it released and kept pontificating evereybody on the state of the game what would you say? Want me to list some more? Some real ones, or ones with a point would be great. My point is that WoW can go on with those kinds of serious flaws that haven't been addressed in YEARS, while WAR is butchered and killed on these and other forums for a much much smaller number of grievances. Sorry but this strikes me as colossaly unfair and frankly very very fishy. Yeah because it's unfair that WAR's world is almost empty less then a week after release. With a super silent community, and bad content seperation. I played WoW since its release and I play WAR now. I'll say that WAR, with all its current flaws, is a much much better game - both potentially AND in actuallity than WoW. That's my opinion and the opinion of RL people that play with me. If you've actually played wow that long(which you haven't, it's obvious to everyone who has played wow and reads your posts). then you'd know that WAR is not even close to wow in any terms. I played WoW from EU release onward. I got 3 70 characters. I know the beast that is WoW buddy... When did you start playing it? If you experienced WoW release problems you would appreciate how smooth WAR's actually is both in texchnical and game design terms. Spoiled brat, that's all I'll say because you really pushed me into it. The ONE THING that is a real, serious problem with WAR now is that there are too many servers - and there were too many of them since the beginning. The game really didn't have the opportunity to take off because you need to have a certain population for this group-oriented game to really shine. Now the problem is getting worse because it is a vicious circle - a lot of my pals retained their subs but stopped playing "until the population picks up." It is not going to happen this way - Mythic needs to bite the bullet and do massive server merges right now and EA be damned. They need to completely destroy their server structure, and instead make 1 server with different character servers, and better/stronger systems to support the increased playerbase.
How are there gonna be 3 campaigns going on at once with the other 2 capitols when theres barely enough to even do one? Oh I agree they should do something about the way population dynamics work.. At the moment the world is simply too big. When players are spread around then it appears quite empty but when they congregate you get craziness - the other day there was a 800+ battle going on in one zone and no wonder the server got bonkers. But what was the other alternative? Smaller world with less room and content? I agree that a solution should be found for these problems and since MBJ did adress them in his last post I suppose something, whatever it is, will be done about it.
War isn't that great, even oldschool DAoC(both before and after ToA) is better than what war is now.
Lol, you are so mistaken it is not even funny. If I left WoW at level 30 right after release I'd be probably saying the same nonsense about it.
Comments
Yeah its really astounding frankly.
It actually kind of bugs me, because I just can't quite understand how professionals who supposedly did this before could neglect this. I went in kind of assuming the Victory points made sense at some point even though they didn't seem to in open beta. Eventually I came to the conclusion that they were borked. Then finally, after a month of forum begging, Mythic explained them and although I had already gotten msot of the information it confirmed what i had already pretty much figured out. Their zone objective and campaign progress design is worthless. Completely lacks any ability to accomplish its purpose. In fact it works conttary to its purpose.
There has to be some reason other than rampant stupidity or blindness. There just has to be, right? Meh I dunno. Its cooked, been cooked for a while.
A number of factors:
- WAR did not live up to the hype generated by Mythic and perpetuated by the fanboys. Together they created the image of a perfect game that would never have been possible by any development company on release. People are angry as a result of this, and vent their fury on these forums.
- Do not underestimate the pleasure Trolls will take in winding up Fanboys. The more Fanboys zealously defend their game, the more the Trolls will seek to ridicule them. It's a vicious circle, and WAR had some of the more cultist-like followers until the Darkfall Fanboys rolled over the hill to take that dubious title. Where there are Fanboys, there will be Trolls. And vice versa.
- Mark Jacobs' not-so-well-hidden arrogance and seeming lack of professionalism. Although I do not condone the comments by some of the Blizzard execs, they do at least have the backing of a multi-million selling game. Jacobs often came across as an angry little man trying to make sideswipes at the big guy.
- All Trolls get bored eventually and move to new pastures. They moved on from VG, they moved on from DnL, they moved on from AoC. WAR seems to be the current whipping boy, but depending on how the DF circus turns out, they might find a new home...
Nice avatar
And yea WAR is a bad WoW clone, much to my dissapointment. Got two chars to t4 and quit about 1 month ago. Just so much potential and ruined by the devs.
Coordinated guild keep sieges and defenses in t3 and t4 were amazing experiences....too bad they didnt happen often enough.
Scenarios FTW. They tried to be like WoW but failed in that respect.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
It's not about combat speed (fast paced vs. slow). It's about responsiveness and smoothness. Both which Warhammer lacks. Things like casting animations do not sync with pushbacks, or casting animations being shown even if the cast time has been reduced to zero seconds. Come on, we have 2008. This is simply unacceptable and highly unprofessional for a high quality game. This game was supposed to be all about PvP and combat. So their first priority should have been to make 100% sure that combat works great. No stuttering, no hitching (as many suffer from), no lag in huge battles, proper casting animations. If you cannot see those issues you truely never played other games.
WoW is a monopolist and monopolists all behave in the same way: maximize profits by decreasing investment as much as possible - simply because they can. The customers have nowhere else to go.
FFS the prime reason WoTLK introduced that "world PvP" and those achievement titles is WAR. Do you think Blizzard would bother with those if there wasn't WAR as potential competition? Looool. Players have been asking for those things for the past 4 years and it was always "manjana" (that's "tomorrow" for you). Lol, if some poor dev at Bliz said "hey lets put those things in" a suit would come up with "what for? why should we spend money on these things when the players have nowhere else to go? You'd be hurting our percentages with unnecessary investments man. You're fired."
I thought it self evident what's happening here. You WoW guys will get hurt more with WAR's failure than its success. You'll get a lazy corp which doesn't care because it has no one to compete with... as was the case before serious competition appeared on the horizon. It'll be a Pyrrhic victory indeed.
Spare me the marxist propaganda. It is not a monopoly. It is a market leader. Consumers vote with their feet. 11 million have chosen to play WoW. I am not one of them. I used to be until BC came out and realised what a time-consuming and joyless grind it is.
The consumers have elsewhere to go. There is a huge list of games to the left of the screen so cut the crap about monopoly. Also if WoW did not continue to invest in its game with new content then it would have lost its market share to its competitors. So it does invest in itself which in turn has generated profits.
I unsubscribed from WAR last week. Levelling to 40 was decent fun but then the game has little to offer to me. Also I was sick of fighting to the enemy fortress only to have the server crash and then resetting the zones. Further I did not get an extra mastery point at Renown rank 40 which pissed me off. And my bug reports were not responded to. And scenarios were repetitive, and crafting was shallow, and etc etc
Anyway I am hoping Darkfall will deliver the goods because there is nothing else on the horizon that shows promise to me.
''98-''99 UO (Golden days!)
''00-''02 CS; SB beta
''03-''04 MODO
''04-''07 WoW
''07 - SB
Waiting for Darkfall and PoBS
makoraos, you list the flaws of WoW. Note that your opinion is that of a tiny minority.
WARs flaws are
1. lag
2. scenarios, should've never been put in game
if WAR was orvr from the start, more people would now play and that would've helped the population. people quit due to tedious scenarios and lag.
WAR doesn't even have a scenario that's comparable to WoW's Alterac Valley.
So, Age of Conan wasn't going to be good. BUT WARHAMMER!!! IT failed people it failed. And this game quite frankly failed beyond reason. I have to tell you this but, Warhammer is over, loads of people are going to quit, so I hope that EA Mythic can at least pay back all the debt it created making Warhammer. They will not make any money on this game
There's no reason to go back to the game, its pointless
Really, did you look at the recent posts, of all the fun people are having. WHY is it that important for you to see this fail. New content, readding chars that were pulled. Juggling updates and fixes. I mean these guys are working for this game and are working hard. Have some respect.
Its a shame when others wanna destroy something for others thats enjoyable. No point on you waking up tommorrow, with comments like this your life must consist of any positives. So please, stay asleep.
Enjoy : )
i realy hope they will get any meaning into orvr.
Atm its nothing more then kicking around sand at the playground.
Ya sure you got lvls and RRs ..but then..ya realy wanna grind em by 2 zergs killing each other over and over at a keep by spawnzerging??
Dont know, im sorry i nowadays want something more then a BF2 *fantasytype* capture the flag.
though i think theres a post of mine around where i asked if it is alike XD.
Sheesh i whish ya hardcore fans good luck with it my sub runs out january, ill look by every now and then´and cross my fingers for you that myth hits some *gamers* nerves
____________________
It`s alright
AC2,AO,D&L,Lotro,VsoH,SWG,Uo,HGL,Drunners,CoH,GW,Potbs,PWI
Eq2,Dofus,WoW,WWIIO,Ryzom,Planetside,EvE,TR,DDO,RFonline,FOM,VC,..etc blabla
also hobbies....staring at loadingbars
Well, MJ said in his letter that ORvR will be fixed in december, that will hopefully stopp people from quiting once that is in.
But I don't see it hit those 500K players that Barnett talked about, not ever.
It is very hard to get players back who quited, and it will get really hard competion from another RvR game next year, Guildwars 2. I don't see Arenanet releasing their game too early either and GW2 isn't the only game that will compete with WAR either next year.
It will be tough for Mythic, I don't know any actual numbers right now but they should be happy if they can have 300K players on a longer basis.
As the OP said, there is a lot of work for Mythic to do if they want to start growing, I would add that they need to fix more content also, those 4 cut out citys would be a good start.
I hope they pull it off, it seems like they are working really hard with the game right now.
While it is true that I do not play the game and have no clue if its worth it or not to play it. I just have to say that the conflicting sentiments are confusing to observers like me. I continue to look at this MMO because it has the highest user rating here on MMORPG. If it sucks so much why would that be? Have people just not gone back to adjust their ratings or taken the time to give ratings? I'm glad I've been reading thses posts because they tell a very different story from that rating. You have to be careful with these MMOs, they're almost never what's promised on the box or the website.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I dont know exactly why this game bores me so much but it might have something to do with it seeming like a single player game with other people running around doing the same things I am without ever LFG or saying anything.
You know, for the most part the only thing ever said is when you are in a scenario and people are mindlessly running around in 5 different directions dying over and over you get to hear them cry "HEAL" or "NO HEALS?" then another guy "Yeah man, I haven't been healed the whole time" and they just ignore the fact that they are all out of range of any healers, the players usually not dumb enough to just charge into a grp of 10 enemies and then wonder why they died are usually the healers. No tactics at all. No wonder there is no RVR.
So to me, this is kind of like what DAOC would have been like if we hadn't met new people at the beetles in Hib, Sals Plains in Alb, or Gotar in Mid, or practiced grouping with everyone xping in CM, Spind, and Cats. Everywhere you went in DAOC there was always somebody wanting to go check something out. Most people don't like to be forced to group but when its set up like it was in DAOC grouping is natural and its a lot of fun and can lead you to explore new places as you gain levels.
War is just set up wrong. Nobody does the pve and if they are they don't want to grp because its all mindless solo questing. If there was a little exploring with better xp I am sure more people would do it but now they are all zerging the scenarios.
So I blame Mythic for forgetting what they had and trying to clone WOW as a real PVP game without implementing their own things the right way. These people don't know how to RVR. This game has them from level 1 doing the same stupid crap they did in WOW BG's and rewarding them more than if they do anything else in the game, while solo and talking to no one.
Is it any wonder that most people are quitting? The people like me want to explore and meet people to group and RVR with. That isn't happening. The people who just like the RVR aren't getting it because there is no point to it. The people who like the scenarios have fun for a while but you can only do so many scenarios.
Basically what I mean to say is that in DAOC people only really bitched about class balance before TOA. We had a lot of fun in the game though. What was important to most was their Realm and defending it, DF, their guild, and farming plats for that MP set and RVR.
What's considered the whines and important things to WAR players?
Players are whining about every aspect of the game and its not about the guild, or the realm, its about the drop. For instance, its better to let the bad guys take a keep so you can take it again for more stuff.
Who came up with this idea? Shoot him please.
You are totally correct on this point.
However, in a recent letter by Mark Jacobs, he says everything will be fixed.
I mean, yesterday there was a live event to kill 15 players in oRvR... and it was the best oRvR there's ever been in any game probably. Around 300 players slugging it out for about 7 hours yesterday.. was totally epic:
Folks,
Over the last few months I’ve spoken about our continued focus on improving our open RvR systems. While we have taken some major steps in the last month, we believe that there is much more we can do to encourage people to take part in oRvR throughout the entire evolution of their character(s). Over the next few months we have some very exciting changes and additions taking place. Please note that as always, this does not represent everything that either we are doing or thinking about doing, just what we, as of now, plan on adding to WAR.
We have a number of major initiatives planned for oRvR in WAR. Please keep in mind that these changes/systems apply to oRvR only and not to scenarios. This is not all we are working on but these do reflect the majority of oRvR additions that we are currently working on/planning for the next few months.
First, we have created an RvR Influence system. This system is designed to reward our oRvR players with lots of new stuff that you can only get through oRvR. This will be a complimentary system to our PQ Influence system. This system is already implemented in 1.1 and is scheduled to go LIVE along with that version in December.
Second, we want to improve the visibility that players have into oRvR and make it easier for players to get involved in the action quickly and easily. We have a number of wide-ranging changes going into our map and travel systems to allow players to better understand the state of oRvR in our game and also allow them to get to the action faster. We have already taken one step with putting a Rally Master in each Warcamp but we will also add the ability for people to have a second bind point to make it even easier for players to move around the maps. We will also make it easy for players to see where players from their Realm are engaging in oRvR, a Campaign HUD for all tiers and other improvements. We will also improve Tier-wide messaging about what is going on in Battlefield Objectives and Keeps. Other additions include changes to the UI, in-game manual improvements, map enhancements, and a few other changes.
Third, we want to provide greater incentives to players to participate in oRvR. In order to accomplish this we will be adding additional layers to the questing system of oRvR including the addition of Keep Quests, “Daily Event Quests”, Chained RvR Missions, improve the initial Tome Unlocks and other oRvR-oriented Events. We will also improve our BO itemization. Our goal is to provide players with even more incentive for participating in oRvR than we have already.
Fourth, we want to encourage guilds to take and control keeps, and we will continue our work on adding better rewards for Guilds who own Keeps as well as the addition of a system of Keep upgrades. This system will be added to the game in several stages beginning in the late winter.
Finally, we will begin work on a global oRvR “Fame” system that will be tied directly to the Tome of Knowledge which will provide more rewards, titles, experience, etc. for participating and being successful in oRvR. This system will provide even more incentives for people to participate in oRvR than the current systems and one that fits nicely both with the ToK’s concept as “This is your life” as well as an additional advancement and reward system.
Please keep in mind that these additions are subject to change and given the nature of these changes/improvements, they will not go LIVE until we have thoroughly tested them. However, these are crucial improvements to WAR and are being treated as such by the team.
Finally, I want to close this out with a brief explanation about the role that we believe that oRvR should play in WAR. It’s really as simple as this, oRvR should be a major focus for leveling, item gain, etc. in WAR. Some of the systems are already in place and in Tier 4, oRvR is alive and well. On other Tiers, however, oRvR is not being engaged in as often as we had hoped when we launched WAR. Our goal is to ensure that oRvR is the place where players can level the fastest, get the best items and overall, have a great time while doing it. It is supposed to be riskier, more challenging but ultimately, more rewarding than any other place within WAR. What is outlined in this letter are some of the ways we plan on making this happen over the next few months and beyond.
As always, we thank you for your patronage and support. We won’t let you down.
Mark
It's all a question of time. PvP based game - sigh -.
I now understand why Mythic wanted to push it out 2 months before WotLK - at all costs (empire tank class deleted and cities removed etc...).Eventually everyone will get to see the new PvP battles in WotLK.
If anyone is going to say after having played these new battles, they still want War's PvP, I suggest giving them a pair of new glasses, a new keyboard, a new computer and probably new brains as well.
You don't have any idea... what a siege battle is in MMORPG's before playing WotLK.
and NO ! this is not pushing you to "come play my beloved game". It is not.
Please stay with War !
be happy with it, but I do know if the majority of players will meet these new PvP fights in the coming weeks, WAR servers may as well be closed. I would say the difference in PvP battlefields is now 4 years and millions of development money.
Only people who will want RvR - with lesser fun PvP - will stay, but I doubt it will be enough to let the game survive in the greedy hands of EA.
I guess this is the root of many posts. Do you trust this guy? Some say yes, some say no. This is essentially the heart of the matter here.
Some people read what he said in development, then through beta and then at release. They do not agree with your above quote and say he has proven he exaggerated pretty wildly about what this game was to be.
However,there are some who while knowing very little about him other than he helped make a MMO, fully believe in what he says.
This again, is the root of each post. Some say he said this and didn't come through, some say he said that and is going to come through.
Only time will tell which side is right.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I guess this is the root of many posts. Do you trust this guy? Some say yes, some say no. This is essentially the heart of the matter here.
Some people read what he said in development, then through beta and then at release. They do not agree with your above quote and say he has proven he exaggerated pretty wildly about what this game was to be.
However,there are some who while knowing very little about him other than he helped make a MMO, fully believe in what he says.
This again, is the root of each post. Some say he said this and didn't come through, some say he said that and is going to come through.
Only time will tell which side is right.
He's a little like Richard Garriot, isn't he? He did something good a long time ago, so players expected something great out of his new project. Some players will give him every benefit of the doubt (there are still players in TR that say TR failed because RG wasn't given enough power).
I personally think he is nothing special. He is responsible for making scenariors 'the game' and for not realizing that keep swapping would be rampent. If he overlooked those 'minor' details last time, what do you think will go wrong with his drastic half-assed bandaids he's going to throw out in 3 months.
Yeah its really astounding frankly.
It actually kind of bugs me, because I just can't quite understand how professionals who supposedly did this before could neglect this. I went in kind of assuming the Victory points made sense at some point even though they didn't seem to in open beta. Eventually I came to the conclusion that they were borked. Then finally, after a month of forum begging, Mythic explained them and although I had already gotten msot of the information it confirmed what i had already pretty much figured out. Their zone objective and campaign progress design is worthless. Completely lacks any ability to accomplish its purpose. In fact it works conttary to its purpose.
There has to be some reason other than rampant stupidity or blindness. There just has to be, right? Meh I dunno. Its cooked, been cooked for a while.
It's all a conspiracy to make blizzard sell more expansion packs.
I will also second that WAR is a bad game. When it released, i was here, thinking it was going to be great, and it turned out to be an incredibly big dissapointment. Besides, i don't think a bad reputation can kill a game, not if it is really good.
About the people quiting, i know many feel this is exagerated, but at the end of the free month the EU servers where ghost towns, even the most populated.
oh and,
Its Mañana (spanish keyboard ) and its called an Enie (the E pronunced as in Elephant and the i as in Pizza).
I guess this is the root of many posts. Do you trust this guy? Some say yes, some say no. This is essentially the heart of the matter here.
Some people read what he said in development, then through beta and then at release. They do not agree with your above quote and say he has proven he exaggerated pretty wildly about what this game was to be.
However,there are some who while knowing very little about him other than he helped make a MMO, fully believe in what he says.
This again, is the root of each post. Some say he said this and didn't come through, some say he said that and is going to come through.
Only time will tell which side is right.
He's a little like Richard Garriot, isn't he? He did something good a long time ago, so players expected something great out of his new project. Some players will give him every benefit of the doubt (there are still players in TR that say TR failed because RG wasn't given enough power).
I personally think he is nothing special. He is responsible for making scenariors 'the game' and for not realizing that keep swapping would be rampent. If he overlooked those 'minor' details last time, what do you think will go wrong with his drastic half-assed bandaids he's going to throw out in 3 months.
Stick to your WoW forums, then again your hated there as well.
These guys have been listening and mixing things up. There doin a greatjob with there responses.
YEah, I trust the guy. I give him a chance. But thats me, maybe peoples lives that revolve around video games may be diffrent. But wh hate on him? He tried, made some mistakes and is fixing them. You never made a mistake before?
Enjoy : )
Releasing the game early was not a mistake, it was a calculated risk. Mark and Mythic knew what they were up against and instead of pushing the games release back they chose to release early on order to beat Lich King. I do not envy the situation they were in, but I also hold them responsible for their choice to do so.
Mark/Paul promised they would not release the game until "it is great, not good, but great". I am not hating on Mythic, but they need to be held accountable for this and not praised for fixing a situation they knowingly put themselves in. The only reason they appear to be doing a great job is because they completely dropped the ball on the biggest parts of the game.
Anyone can trust Mythic and give them all the chances in the world. The problem is they can do that while taking their subscription dollars to another MMO and watching from the sidelines. The entire point that original poster was making is getting mired up with allegations of haters/fanboys and none of that matters.
The original poster is correct in his assesment of the games harsh situation. Time is not an ally right now regardless of how anyone of us feel about the game.
Releasing the game early was not a mistake, it was a calculated risk. Mark and Mythic knew what they were up against and instead of pushing the games release back they chose to release early on order to beat Lich King. I do not envy the situation they were in, but I also hold them responsible for their choice to do so.
Mark/Paul promised they would not release the game until "it is great, not good, but great". I am not hating on Mythic, but they need to be held accountable for this and not praised for fixing a situation they knowingly put themselves in. The only reason they appear to be doing a great job is because they completely dropped the ball on the biggest parts of the game.
Anyone can trust Mythic and give them all the chances in the world. The problem is they can do that while taking their subscription dollars to another MMO and watching from the sidelines. The entire point that original poster was making is getting mired up with allegations of haters/fanboys and none of that matters.
The original poster is correct in his assesment of the games harsh situation. Time is not an ally right now regardless of how anyone of us feel about the game.
Every day that passes and people see the difference between WotLK and War, the going gets tougher for Mythic.
Indeed Mythic simply had NO choice: it was publishing before WotLK or not publishing at all.
They wanted to grab the market to stay in the competition, but they missed the target by along shot . Now everyone sees the difference (for those who want to see of course).
EA will unplug it in 6 months time. The gap is just too big between what War shows now and what WotLK offers. Those who say WotLK has no PvP should get their heads examined and the PVE difference is not even worth discussing.
90% of the War players are (ex) Wow players, it is enough they meet with their friends and see for themselves the PvP features of WotLK. It's insane what Blizzard did.
Good luck Mythic, you'll need it.
QFT. People blaming Blizzard for making a good game, are being unreasonable. Blizzard pretty much from the outset said. All they wanted to do was make a "fun" MMORPG set in the Warcraft universe. I honestly can't remember them making any grand claims like so many other recently released MMO's did. (Vanguard, Warhammer, Aoc, etc etc)
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
War isn't that great, even oldschool DAoC(both before and after ToA) is better than what war is now.
War isn't that great, even oldschool DAoC(both before and after ToA) is better than what war is now.
Lol, you are so mistaken it is not even funny. If I left WoW at level 30 right after release I'd be probably saying the same nonsense about it.