PVE, because in most cases a PVP'er can handle a PVE game (with some amount of grumbling), but a PVE'er has a much tougher time accepting the ganking in a PVP world.
I will never understand the level of cowardice and fear of PVP you see from PVEers, especially when these people spend up to 4 hours a night repeatedly being rolled by AI-controlled scripted bosses for tiny incremental improvements in gear, yet they scream and whine when killed a couple of times by an actual player that doesn't have super boss powers.
doesn't make any sense to me.
I think that the reason is fairly obvious: in PvE everyone wins (eventually), while PvP has winners and losers. People don't like to lose. The number of PvEers who do the challenging endgame raids is small for the same reason: people don't like to die. This is why PvE is more popular than PvP, and why games will continue to have dumbed down PvE outside of endgame raids -- because the vast majority of people do not like to raid or do PvP, but want PvE content that they can "casually" play through and not die.
I will never understand why people pay $15 a month to casually solo play an MMO.
The only successful mmos we have ever had that were designed around PvP were UO nearly 10 years ago and EVE so obviously we need more of them. The mmo market is saturated with PvE games. People constantly say that PvP games dont work and yet every game that they refer to is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought. None of them were designed so that the players would fight against each other so of course their PvP aspects would fail. Does that mean that an mmo designed for it will fail? Obviously it doesnt. I wish people would stop whining about ganking. This only happens in level based themepark games. In those games the person with the highest number over their head wins so of course you're gonna get ganked. Its an idiotic reason to be against PvP. WAR is an epic failure but it is also a prime example of what happens when you "say" you are releasing a PvP game but actually release a level-based PvE game with PvP playpens attached (aka copying WoW). I fail to see the point in releasing more PvE games just so that thousands of players can go online to play a giant single player game in massive co-op mode. I want realism and variety and dont see any point in restricting that. Thousands of players having the same experience, doing the same PvE quests and the same computer scripted encounters? If a decent PvP game (apart from EvE) came along then all the naysayers would quickly realise that they were full of shit and would find it very hard to go back to the old fashioned boring single player mmos where everything is static and brainless. We have had loads of PvE games that have failed and yet we keep seeing more of them and yet everyone seems to think that PvP games will fail. Well.......how about actually SEEING some fail then. The only other PvP mmo that I can think of which failed was Shadowbane. So thats 1 PvP mmo failure. Its an absolute joke that in 10 years only 3 noticeable PvP mmos have been released! Thankfully there are some promising PvP games on the way such as Darkfall, Earthrise, Fallen Earth and Crusades. Finally I might be able to log onto an mmo and actually interact with people properly for once.
Fury was a 100% PVP game, it failed miserably, so has every other PvP game. There is a reason 80% of the population wants PvE and not pure PvP. People wants to have a chioce, and not just be the victim of yet another 8 year old ganker that happens to be 3 levels higher.
This got me thinking in general if PVE only mmos are better than pvp only mmos.
"Better" is a matter of opinion, thus there's no right answer.
That PvE is way more popular than PvP is a simple fact, however, thus a pure PvE game will sell better and maintain higher subscriber numbers than a pure PvP game. Most people just suck at PvP, thus they don't enjoy it - everyone can beat at least some of the PvE stuff.
PVE, because in most cases a PVP'er can handle a PVE game (with some amount of grumbling), but a PVE'er has a much tougher time accepting the ganking in a PVP world.
I will never understand the level of cowardice and fear of PVP you see from PVEers, especially when these people spend up to 4 hours a night repeatedly being rolled by AI-controlled scripted bosses for tiny incremental improvements in gear, yet they scream and whine when killed a couple of times by an actual player that doesn't have super boss powers.
doesn't make any sense to me.
I think that the reason is fairly obvious: in PvE everyone wins (eventually), while PvP has winners and losers. People don't like to lose. The number of PvEers who do the challenging endgame raids is small for the same reason: people don't like to die. This is why PvE is more popular than PvP, and why games will continue to have dumbed down PvE outside of endgame raids -- because the vast majority of people do not like to raid or do PvP, but want PvE content that they can "casually" play through and not die.
I will never understand why people pay $15 a month to casually solo play an MMO.
You don't understand because your statment is TOTALY wrong. PvE People CAN solo, but 99% DON'T. They enjoy Compleating quests, advancing the Story lines, and going through Dungeons with thier Friends and Guilds. I have nothing against PvP, I just don't care for it. As For witch would sell more, a PvP or PvE MMO? Well thats a no brainer. What do 99% of the MMO's gear to now? PvE {With a Little PvP to make others Happy}
Agree or disagree, Thats what sells, so thats what they make. Nothing wrong with PvP, It has a Following, but from what I see, Most PvP players think they are the majority. They are not, and the games that are made prove it.
The only real reason to play a pure PvP MMO is if there is some sort of potential for very large battles and some kind of startegy over multiple battlefields.
Something like instanced AoC style keeps would get old real fast and other games do that better for free. Something like what WAR currently has is the same thing but because its campaign has no real strategy to it and you might as well do other games for free that do it better.
Something like Planetside has potential. WAR is almost like Planetside but they messed up the details.
If we add in the RPG part it actually gets even worse. There is a small set of people who constantly advocate for huge differences based on RPG stats so that they can create a pyramid affect and then sit at the top of the pyramid and kick everyone off of it. While that is realistic, in that it is a sort of rich get richer/poor stay poor effect, it is not fun for the majority of the game.
The biggest problem with the RPG aspect of MMORPGs that want to be mostly PvP and still have progression is this pyramid scheme like effect. That probably why WAR created its "tiers". Of course the tiers in WAR are misguided in other ways so I can't say they are a good idea.
We will always have some that want PVE or PVP but there just is not enough. Other parts of the world you can pull off just PVP they LOVE to fight and grind. Here lol its BETTER be easy is what we want..
PVE, because in most cases a PVP'er can handle a PVE game (with some amount of grumbling), but a PVE'er has a much tougher time accepting the ganking in a PVP world.
I will never understand the level of cowardice and fear of PVP you see from PVEers, especially when these people spend up to 4 hours a night repeatedly being rolled by AI-controlled scripted bosses for tiny incremental improvements in gear, yet they scream and whine when killed a couple of times by an actual player that doesn't have super boss powers.
doesn't make any sense to me.
I think that the reason is fairly obvious: in PvE everyone wins (eventually), while PvP has winners and losers. People don't like to lose. The number of PvEers who do the challenging endgame raids is small for the same reason: people don't like to die. This is why PvE is more popular than PvP, and why games will continue to have dumbed down PvE outside of endgame raids -- because the vast majority of people do not like to raid or do PvP, but want PvE content that they can "casually" play through and not die.
I will never understand why people pay $15 a month to casually solo play an MMO.
You don't understand because your statment is TOTALY wrong. PvE People CAN solo, but 99% DON'T. They enjoy Compleating quests, advancing the Story lines, and going through Dungeons with thier Friends and Guilds. I have nothing against PvP, I just don't care for it. As For witch would sell more, a PvP or PvE MMO? Well thats a no brainer. What do 99% of the MMO's gear to now? PvE {With a Little PvP to make others Happy}
Agree or disagree, Thats what sells, so thats what they make. Nothing wrong with PvP, It has a Following, but from what I see, Most PvP players think they are the majority. They are not, and the games that are made prove it.
Not true. The second best selling game is Guild Wars. WoW may be the best selling by large amount. But GW , as far as box sales, blows the PvE based games out of the water and then some.
The problem is most of the PvP in most MMORPGs and the underlying RPG systems just plain suck at PvP.
Guild Wars created a game with decent balance, very good interface and an equal footing. And it destroyed most PvE games.
Say whatever you want about GW not having world PvP or whatever. Its not germaine. Both PvE and PvP sell and both sell well. That has been proven.
The problem is most games not made by ArenaNet or Blizzard are seriously lacking in certain factors that make a game have the serious sales those two do.
Has nothing to do with PvE or PvP per se. Has more to do with quality. To be sure if you want to make PvP a important focus then what qualifies as quality will be changed to some degree.
But fact remains that the major difference are certain hard to define things those companies do that others do not.
PVE, because in most cases a PVP'er can handle a PVE game (with some amount of grumbling), but a PVE'er has a much tougher time accepting the ganking in a PVP world.
I have my doubts about this. I believe the underlying reason pvers dislike getting ganked is that it is disruptive. WHo would complain in Planetside about their gear being stolen? Noone because you respawn with new gear. WHo wouild complain in Planetside that someone killed them while building defensive systems like turrets or doing hacking attempts? Noone because the rules implicitely declare you have to do this before the enemy kills you.
A lot of times pvers complain because gear collection is time intensive and they feel they have picked a goal that shouldn't involve other players.
PVP seems to be too sensitive towards balancing and other issues that if it isnt just right the players...
PvE has balancing issues too. The rise of Feral druids and Paladins as tanks and the constant changes between fire, ice and arcane specs proves this point in the most popular MMO.
a pure pve lacks any competition between players and a pure pvp lacks any cooperation between players.
DPS meters? Tanking slots? Healing meters? Elite raiders vs second stringers? There's competition.
Zergs and Blobs? DAOC 8 man squads? Bane exploiting? 5man arena vs 2 man arena? There's cooperation.
Even fighting games are better PvP.
I used to desire having fighting game mechanics in an MMO but after Age of Conan I see the flaws of trying to use such a system.
In fighters you can't run away and fighting games don't give players the same level of movement we see in MMOs.
No offense OP ...but Monster Hunter 2 was released on the PS2 for the US within its first 2 years and it was an online game. Honestly I beta tested it and didn't see the appeal I don't even think typical PvE MMO players will enjoy it.
Really? What was the one thing that really bothered you the most about this game? How did the combat work because to my understanding it is different from autotargeting mechanics. I believe you have to time your strikes with corresponding animations.
PVE, because in most cases a PVP'er can handle a PVE game (with some amount of grumbling), but a PVE'er has a much tougher time accepting the ganking in a PVP world.
I will never understand the level of cowardice and fear of PVP you see from PVEers, especially when these people spend up to 4 hours a night repeatedly being rolled by AI-controlled scripted bosses for tiny incremental improvements in gear, yet they scream and whine when killed a couple of times by an actual player that doesn't have super boss powers.
doesn't make any sense to me.
I think that the reason is fairly obvious: in PvE everyone wins (eventually), while PvP has winners and losers. People don't like to lose. The number of PvEers who do the challenging endgame raids is small for the same reason: people don't like to die. This is why PvE is more popular than PvP, and why games will continue to have dumbed down PvE outside of endgame raids -- because the vast majority of people do not like to raid or do PvP, but want PvE content that they can "casually" play through and not die.
I will never understand why people pay $15 a month to casually solo play an MMO.
You don't understand because your statment is TOTALY wrong. PvE People CAN solo, but 99% DON'T. They enjoy Compleating quests, advancing the Story lines, and going through Dungeons with thier Friends and Guilds. I have nothing against PvP, I just don't care for it. As For witch would sell more, a PvP or PvE MMO? Well thats a no brainer. What do 99% of the MMO's gear to now? PvE {With a Little PvP to make others Happy}
Agree or disagree, Thats what sells, so thats what they make. Nothing wrong with PvP, It has a Following, but from what I see, Most PvP players think they are the majority. They are not, and the games that are made prove it.
Not true. The second best selling game is Guild Wars. WoW may be the best selling by large amount. But GW , as far as box sales, blows the PvE based games out of the water and then some.
The problem is most of the PvP in most MMORPGs and the underlying RPG systems just plain suck at PvP.
Guild Wars created a game with decent balance, very good interface and an equal footing. And it destroyed most PvE games.
Say whatever you want about GW not having world PvP or whatever. Its not germaine. Both PvE and PvP sell and both sell well. That has been proven.
The problem is most games not made by ArenaNet or Blizzard are seriously lacking in certain factors that make a game have the serious sales those two do.
Has nothing to do with PvE or PvP per se. Has more to do with quality. To be sure if you want to make PvP a important focus then what qualifies as quality will be changed to some degree.
But fact remains that the major difference are certain hard to define things those companies do that others do not.
Guild Wars. Like it or not was a Well put together game................AND FREE.
I played it and ALL the expansions. ALL PvE side. NEVER played the PvP part.
The story was awesome. and thats what draged PvE players in. Like I said 99% are PvE. but some {Like Guild Wars and EVE} are made for PvP, but they are STILL the minority.
Pure PvP would get more box sales. Pure PvE would retain more subsciptions.
Bollocks!
In a pure PvP game the players make the story and anything can happen.
In a pure PvE game the computer tells you a scripted story, every player has the same experience and the story ends.
However no-one has released a PvP mmo yet apart from EvE and UO 10 years ago (there was Shadowbane but it failed) so there is no way of really comparing the popularity of the two gaming types. Virtually every mmo that gets released is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought (eg WoW, EQ2. L2, Vanguard)
How can all of these idiots keep saying that PvE is more popular when we only have PvE games to choose from?
Pure PvP would get more box sales. Pure PvE would retain more subsciptions.
Bollocks!
In a pure PvP game the players make the story and anything can happen.
In a pure PvE game the computer tells you a scripted story, every player has the same experience and the story ends.
However no-one has released a PvP mmo yet apart from EvE and UO 10 years ago (there was Shadowbane but it failed) so there is no way of really comparing the popularity of the two gaming types. Virtually every mmo that gets released is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought (eg WoW, EQ2. L2, Vanguard)
How can all of these idiots keep saying that PvE is more popular when we only have PvE games to choose from?
You answered your own question. Quit taking this so personal. MMO's are a Business like any other. It's all supply and demand. PvE is what the majority want, so thats what they make. It's not that there isn't a demand for PvP, It's just a smaller market. So they try to blend in some PvP into the PvE to help capture part of that croud too. EVE is a HUGE PvP game that has a big Following, but because PvP is a Minority you don't see it being sold at Best Buy or Game Stop. It's Online sales.
I am not knocking PvP at all. Every one has different likes and dislikes. Businesses go with demand, thats just the cold hard truth.
Originally posted by Giddian You answered your own question. Quit taking this so personal. MMO's are a Business like any other. It's all supply and demand. PvE is what the majority want, so thats what they make. It's not that there isn't a demand for PvP, It's just a smaller market. So they try to blend in some PvP into the PvE to help capture part of that croud too. EVE is a HUGE PvP game that has a big Following, but because PvP is a Minority you don't see it being sold at Best Buy or Game Stop. It's Online sales. I am not knocking PvP at all. Every one has different likes and dislikes. Businesses go with demand, thats just the cold hard truth.
Except CCP just made a deal with Atari to put EVE in stores early next year.
A very good pure PvP game would outsell any of the current games out right now except for maybe WOW (too many fanbois to contend with).
All of the PvPers from the different games would play that one game while the PvEers stayed in their respective games because the setting fits their RP needs.
PvPers care almost exclusively about gameplay and balance.
PvEers are more a mix of story/roleplay, social aspects, gameplay, and balance.
Pure PvP would get more box sales. Pure PvE would retain more subsciptions.
Bollocks!
In a pure PvP game the players make the story and anything can happen.
In a pure PvE game the computer tells you a scripted story, every player has the same experience and the story ends.
However no-one has released a PvP mmo yet apart from EvE and UO 10 years ago (there was Shadowbane but it failed) so there is no way of really comparing the popularity of the two gaming types. Virtually every mmo that gets released is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought (eg WoW, EQ2. L2, Vanguard)
How can all of these idiots keep saying that PvE is more popular when we only have PvE games to choose from?
You answered your own question. Quit taking this so personal. MMO's are a Business like any other. It's all supply and demand. PvE is what the majority want, so thats what they make. It's not that there isn't a demand for PvP, It's just a smaller market. So they try to blend in some PvP into the PvE to help capture part of that croud too. EVE is a HUGE PvP game that has a big Following, but because PvP is a Minority you don't see it being sold at Best Buy or Game Stop. It's Online sales.
I am not knocking PvP at all. Every one has different likes and dislikes. Businesses go with demand, thats just the cold hard truth.
I disagree. PvE just happens to fit into the majority of players gamestyle, but it isn't their forte. Socializing, roleplaying, etc. all fits into the PvE category.
Pure PvP would get more box sales. Pure PvE would retain more subsciptions.
Bollocks!
In a pure PvP game the players make the story and anything can happen.
In a pure PvE game the computer tells you a scripted story, every player has the same experience and the story ends.
However no-one has released a PvP mmo yet apart from EvE and UO 10 years ago (there was Shadowbane but it failed) so there is no way of really comparing the popularity of the two gaming types. Virtually every mmo that gets released is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought (eg WoW, EQ2. L2, Vanguard)
How can all of these idiots keep saying that PvE is more popular when we only have PvE games to choose from?
You answered your own question. Quit taking this so personal. MMO's are a Business like any other. It's all supply and demand. PvE is what the majority want, so thats what they make. It's not that there isn't a demand for PvP, It's just a smaller market. So they try to blend in some PvP into the PvE to help capture part of that croud too. EVE is a HUGE PvP game that has a big Following, but because PvP is a Minority you don't see it being sold at Best Buy or Game Stop. It's Online sales.
I am not knocking PvP at all. Every one has different likes and dislikes. Businesses go with demand, thats just the cold hard truth.
I disagree. PvE just happens to fit into the majority of players gamestyle, but it isn't their forte. Socializing, roleplaying, etc. all fits into the PvE category.
PvPers aren't as much of a minority as you think.
spoken like a True PvPer.
They make a Game to sell. they don't say "HMMM People like this,,,, but screw Them I will make what they don't want." they make what people are wanting. Once again I'm NOT knoking PvP. But you can't close your eyes to sales. PvP is a big part of the gameing world but the sales Prove PvE is what is in demand
Pure PvP would get more box sales. Pure PvE would retain more subsciptions.
Bollocks!
In a pure PvP game the players make the story and anything can happen.
In a pure PvE game the computer tells you a scripted story, every player has the same experience and the story ends.
However no-one has released a PvP mmo yet apart from EvE and UO 10 years ago (there was Shadowbane but it failed) so there is no way of really comparing the popularity of the two gaming types. Virtually every mmo that gets released is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought (eg WoW, EQ2. L2, Vanguard)
How can all of these idiots keep saying that PvE is more popular when we only have PvE games to choose from?
You answered your own question. Quit taking this so personal. MMO's are a Business like any other. It's all supply and demand. PvE is what the majority want, so thats what they make. It's not that there isn't a demand for PvP, It's just a smaller market. So they try to blend in some PvP into the PvE to help capture part of that croud too. EVE is a HUGE PvP game that has a big Following, but because PvP is a Minority you don't see it being sold at Best Buy or Game Stop. It's Online sales.
I am not knocking PvP at all. Every one has different likes and dislikes. Businesses go with demand, thats just the cold hard truth.
I disagree. PvE just happens to fit into the majority of players gamestyle, but it isn't their forte. Socializing, roleplaying, etc. all fits into the PvE category.
PvPers aren't as much of a minority as you think.
spoken like a True PvPer.
They make a Game to sell. they don't say "HMMM People like this,,,, but screw Them I will make what they don't want." they make what people are wanting. Once again I'm NOT knoking PvP. But you can't close your eyes to sales. PvP is a big part of the gameing world but the sales Prove PvE is what is in demand
AOC broke sales records, please tell me what the focus of that game was?
......Oh yes, open world free for all pvp.
Everyone who bought the game knew that, so don't tell me PvE games sell better. It's obvious players are looking for a great pvp game.
I wish people would stop whining about ganking. This only happens in level based themepark games. In those games the person with the highest number over their head wins so of course you're gonna get ganked. Its an idiotic reason to be against PvP.
You obviously never played Ultima Online when it had open PVP. What a mess.
Pure PvP would get more box sales. Pure PvE would retain more subsciptions.
Bollocks!
In a pure PvP game the players make the story and anything can happen.
In a pure PvE game the computer tells you a scripted story, every player has the same experience and the story ends.
However no-one has released a PvP mmo yet apart from EvE and UO 10 years ago (there was Shadowbane but it failed) so there is no way of really comparing the popularity of the two gaming types. Virtually every mmo that gets released is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought (eg WoW, EQ2. L2, Vanguard)
How can all of these idiots keep saying that PvE is more popular when we only have PvE games to choose from?
You answered your own question. Quit taking this so personal. MMO's are a Business like any other. It's all supply and demand. PvE is what the majority want, so thats what they make. It's not that there isn't a demand for PvP, It's just a smaller market. So they try to blend in some PvP into the PvE to help capture part of that croud too. EVE is a HUGE PvP game that has a big Following, but because PvP is a Minority you don't see it being sold at Best Buy or Game Stop. It's Online sales.
I am not knocking PvP at all. Every one has different likes and dislikes. Businesses go with demand, thats just the cold hard truth.
I disagree. PvE just happens to fit into the majority of players gamestyle, but it isn't their forte. Socializing, roleplaying, etc. all fits into the PvE category.
PvPers aren't as much of a minority as you think.
spoken like a True PvPer.
They make a Game to sell. they don't say "HMMM People like this,,,, but screw Them I will make what they don't want." they make what people are wanting. Once again I'm NOT knoking PvP. But you can't close your eyes to sales. PvP is a big part of the gameing world but the sales Prove PvE is what is in demand
AOC broke sales records, please tell me what the focus of that game was?
......Oh yes, open world free for all pvp.
Everyone who bought the game knew that, so don't tell me PvE games sell better. It's obvious players are looking for a great pvp game.
Which is why it had more PvE servers than PvP, and if AOC main focus was PvP as you say, why have the devs spent the last 3 months creating a PvP system from scratch? If it ever was a PvPers game to begin with surley it would have shipped PvP ready instead of having the bog standard PvP servers that most PvE games launch with.
Currently the AoC PvPers are demanding server merges, some are even asking for merges with the PvE servers...
It all has to do with the "E" in PVE. MMO's are about the environment and even those MMO's that feature solid PVP are beholden to the setting/world the game is in. Most folks buy a MMO to explore the world..aka. environment.
Take away the the environment and you get games like Unreal Tournament which are fun in their own right, but do not foster the mindset or provide the setting/structure that is needed to sustain a MMO.
Strangely, both fans and Devs alike are stuck on the idea that PVE requires grinding. Pen and paper games as well as many single players games have shown this is NOT the only path. To be sure, there must be action and killing, but there are other ways to create an environment that fosters story, exploration, teamwork and player contribution to the game.
PVP is inherently self destructive in its nature... being that the idea is to destroy the "other guy" before he gets you. Again, PVP doesn't have to be this way, just as PVE doesn't have to be a grind, but from what I have seen on these forums "Kill or be Killed" is EXACTLY what hardcore PVP'ers want.
PVP might be more popular and more respected were it not for the stigma that griefing, name calling (like calling folks carebears), teabagging, and general asshattery that has become synonomous with PVP play. Most folks don't want to deal with this in their entertainment and thus choose PVE or, at the bravest, structured PVP with penalty systems.
Until this "perceived" attitude of the PVP playerbase changes, then PVE will continue to rule in the sales.
Pure PvP would get more box sales. Pure PvE would retain more subsciptions.
Bollocks!
In a pure PvP game the players make the story and anything can happen.
In a pure PvE game the computer tells you a scripted story, every player has the same experience and the story ends.
However no-one has released a PvP mmo yet apart from EvE and UO 10 years ago (there was Shadowbane but it failed) so there is no way of really comparing the popularity of the two gaming types. Virtually every mmo that gets released is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought (eg WoW, EQ2. L2, Vanguard)
How can all of these idiots keep saying that PvE is more popular when we only have PvE games to choose from?
You answered your own question. Quit taking this so personal. MMO's are a Business like any other. It's all supply and demand. PvE is what the majority want, so thats what they make. It's not that there isn't a demand for PvP, It's just a smaller market. So they try to blend in some PvP into the PvE to help capture part of that croud too. EVE is a HUGE PvP game that has a big Following, but because PvP is a Minority you don't see it being sold at Best Buy or Game Stop. It's Online sales.
I am not knocking PvP at all. Every one has different likes and dislikes. Businesses go with demand, thats just the cold hard truth.
What me? Taking it personally? I dont know what you mean.......
Everythings personal if you're a person
Actually the ONLY reason why PvE games are so popular is because
1. Devs are used to making single player games so nearly every mmo that comes out is a massively multiplayer single player game. They are easier to make successfully! Its got NOTHING to do with what the playerbase wants. PvE games get made more frequently because they are easier to make.
2. We are all used to playing single player games and mmos are simply an extention of that. In a similar way that the devs are not used to making them, the players themselves are not used to playing PvP mmos.
Basicly people are not currently being given the choice. If I want to play a pure PvP mmo what choice do I have? There is EvE and then there are two failed games (Shadowbane and Fury). I suppose I could play UO if I wanted to play an outdated 10 year old game. Basicly I have 1 game to choose from. Thats really crap!
Companies are NOT catering to the demand of the consumers. They are TELLING the consumers that they want PvE by only giving them PvE games. Its easier for the games companies this way. The funny thing is that most players think they are getting what they want but actually they are getting what they are given.
I think in the future this will change. In fact we are already seeing a number of PvP-focused games coming our way. If people want to play games against the computer with their friends (how many of you actually play exclusively with your real life friends anyway?) then I think there will always be games that cater for that but allowing players to fully interact with each other (yeah thats right FULL interaction) is the natural way for online gaming to go. The PvE mindset will get shoved out of the way eventually.......the consumers dont get to choose what becomes popular......its the games companies which do that by making good games.
If good quality PvP games start appearing then the overall answer to this thread would change to "Why should we bother with boring PvE games when there are LOADS of really good PvP mmos available?". Unfortunately this is currently not the case as virtually no decent PvP games have been made so people have a biased negative opinion of PvP games.
Which is why it had more PvE servers than PvP, and if AOC main focus was PvP as you say, why have the devs spent the last 3 months creating a PvP system from scratch? If it ever was a PvPers game to begin with surley it would have shipped PvP ready instead of having the bog standard PvP servers that most PvE games launch with. Currently the AoC PvPers are demanding server merges, some are even asking for merges with the PvE servers... You can't deny that AoC was advertised as a PvP game with Borderlands, Bloodcoins, siege warfare and so on.
Companies are NOT catering to the demand of the consumers. They are TELLING the consumers that they want PvE by only giving them PvE games. Its easier for the games companies this way. The funny thing is that most players think they are getting what they want but actually they are getting what they are given.
Keep on believing that. That's not how the consumer/business relationship typically works.
When companies do try to tell consumers they want a product they actually use a marketing campaign the types of which we've never seen for MMO marketing campaigns.
The closest example I've seen of that type being attempted was by Brad McQuad with Vanguard by trying to capitalize on the buzz word core gamer.
Didn't read the 7-8 pages, but I felt like throwing my five cents in here..
Eve Online is heavy PvP, and most think of Eve as a purely PvP game. With the playerdriven market, the combat and everything else.
A game like WoW is heavy PvE, I'd say, because of the grinding and raiding, but endgame is more pvp-influenced..
Which of theese two sell best? (:..
Anyways, my vote goes to PvP, mostly because I think people like interacting with other people, and, with Web 3.0 in mind, that's where things are going.
If WoW went ALL PvP, in the EvE Online sense, I think it'd be very, very popular.
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Comments
I will never understand the level of cowardice and fear of PVP you see from PVEers, especially when these people spend up to 4 hours a night repeatedly being rolled by AI-controlled scripted bosses for tiny incremental improvements in gear, yet they scream and whine when killed a couple of times by an actual player that doesn't have super boss powers.
doesn't make any sense to me.
I think that the reason is fairly obvious: in PvE everyone wins (eventually), while PvP has winners and losers. People don't like to lose. The number of PvEers who do the challenging endgame raids is small for the same reason: people don't like to die. This is why PvE is more popular than PvP, and why games will continue to have dumbed down PvE outside of endgame raids -- because the vast majority of people do not like to raid or do PvP, but want PvE content that they can "casually" play through and not die.
I will never understand why people pay $15 a month to casually solo play an MMO.
The Official God FAQ
EDIT: Quote failed...
Fury was a 100% PVP game, it failed miserably, so has every other PvP game. There is a reason 80% of the population wants PvE and not pure PvP. People wants to have a chioce, and not just be the victim of yet another 8 year old ganker that happens to be 3 levels higher.
"Better" is a matter of opinion, thus there's no right answer.
That PvE is way more popular than PvP is a simple fact, however, thus a pure PvE game will sell better and maintain higher subscriber numbers than a pure PvP game. Most people just suck at PvP, thus they don't enjoy it - everyone can beat at least some of the PvE stuff.
I will never understand the level of cowardice and fear of PVP you see from PVEers, especially when these people spend up to 4 hours a night repeatedly being rolled by AI-controlled scripted bosses for tiny incremental improvements in gear, yet they scream and whine when killed a couple of times by an actual player that doesn't have super boss powers.
doesn't make any sense to me.
I think that the reason is fairly obvious: in PvE everyone wins (eventually), while PvP has winners and losers. People don't like to lose. The number of PvEers who do the challenging endgame raids is small for the same reason: people don't like to die. This is why PvE is more popular than PvP, and why games will continue to have dumbed down PvE outside of endgame raids -- because the vast majority of people do not like to raid or do PvP, but want PvE content that they can "casually" play through and not die.
I will never understand why people pay $15 a month to casually solo play an MMO.
You don't understand because your statment is TOTALY wrong. PvE People CAN solo, but 99% DON'T. They enjoy Compleating quests, advancing the Story lines, and going through Dungeons with thier Friends and Guilds. I have nothing against PvP, I just don't care for it. As For witch would sell more, a PvP or PvE MMO? Well thats a no brainer. What do 99% of the MMO's gear to now? PvE {With a Little PvP to make others Happy}
Agree or disagree, Thats what sells, so thats what they make. Nothing wrong with PvP, It has a Following, but from what I see, Most PvP players think they are the majority. They are not, and the games that are made prove it.
The only real reason to play a pure PvP MMO is if there is some sort of potential for very large battles and some kind of startegy over multiple battlefields.
Something like instanced AoC style keeps would get old real fast and other games do that better for free. Something like what WAR currently has is the same thing but because its campaign has no real strategy to it and you might as well do other games for free that do it better.
Something like Planetside has potential. WAR is almost like Planetside but they messed up the details.
If we add in the RPG part it actually gets even worse. There is a small set of people who constantly advocate for huge differences based on RPG stats so that they can create a pyramid affect and then sit at the top of the pyramid and kick everyone off of it. While that is realistic, in that it is a sort of rich get richer/poor stay poor effect, it is not fun for the majority of the game.
The biggest problem with the RPG aspect of MMORPGs that want to be mostly PvP and still have progression is this pyramid scheme like effect. That probably why WAR created its "tiers". Of course the tiers in WAR are misguided in other ways so I can't say they are a good idea.
We will always have some that want PVE or PVP but there just is not enough. Other parts of the world you can pull off just PVP they LOVE to fight and grind. Here lol its BETTER be easy is what we want..
I will never understand the level of cowardice and fear of PVP you see from PVEers, especially when these people spend up to 4 hours a night repeatedly being rolled by AI-controlled scripted bosses for tiny incremental improvements in gear, yet they scream and whine when killed a couple of times by an actual player that doesn't have super boss powers.
doesn't make any sense to me.
I think that the reason is fairly obvious: in PvE everyone wins (eventually), while PvP has winners and losers. People don't like to lose. The number of PvEers who do the challenging endgame raids is small for the same reason: people don't like to die. This is why PvE is more popular than PvP, and why games will continue to have dumbed down PvE outside of endgame raids -- because the vast majority of people do not like to raid or do PvP, but want PvE content that they can "casually" play through and not die.
I will never understand why people pay $15 a month to casually solo play an MMO.
You don't understand because your statment is TOTALY wrong. PvE People CAN solo, but 99% DON'T. They enjoy Compleating quests, advancing the Story lines, and going through Dungeons with thier Friends and Guilds. I have nothing against PvP, I just don't care for it. As For witch would sell more, a PvP or PvE MMO? Well thats a no brainer. What do 99% of the MMO's gear to now? PvE {With a Little PvP to make others Happy}
Agree or disagree, Thats what sells, so thats what they make. Nothing wrong with PvP, It has a Following, but from what I see, Most PvP players think they are the majority. They are not, and the games that are made prove it.
Not true. The second best selling game is Guild Wars. WoW may be the best selling by large amount. But GW , as far as box sales, blows the PvE based games out of the water and then some.
The problem is most of the PvP in most MMORPGs and the underlying RPG systems just plain suck at PvP.
Guild Wars created a game with decent balance, very good interface and an equal footing. And it destroyed most PvE games.
Say whatever you want about GW not having world PvP or whatever. Its not germaine. Both PvE and PvP sell and both sell well. That has been proven.
The problem is most games not made by ArenaNet or Blizzard are seriously lacking in certain factors that make a game have the serious sales those two do.
Has nothing to do with PvE or PvP per se. Has more to do with quality. To be sure if you want to make PvP a important focus then what qualifies as quality will be changed to some degree.
But fact remains that the major difference are certain hard to define things those companies do that others do not.
FURY-- Pure PvP Epic Fail
Everquest 2 -- Pure PvE (essentially) Very succesful.
I
PvE cuz of story, cutscenes, taking down epic bosses with other players and the controls are made for this.
I just dont like PvP in mmos cuz its not twitch combat, only FPS or fighting games. rpg controls and mechanics ruins PvP for me.
PVE, because in most cases a PVP'er can handle a PVE game (with some amount of grumbling), but a PVE'er has a much tougher time accepting the ganking in a PVP world.
I have my doubts about this. I believe the underlying reason pvers dislike getting ganked is that it is disruptive. WHo would complain in Planetside about their gear being stolen? Noone because you respawn with new gear. WHo wouild complain in Planetside that someone killed them while building defensive systems like turrets or doing hacking attempts? Noone because the rules implicitely declare you have to do this before the enemy kills you.
A lot of times pvers complain because gear collection is time intensive and they feel they have picked a goal that shouldn't involve other players.
PVP seems to be too sensitive towards balancing and other issues that if it isnt just right the players...
PvE has balancing issues too. The rise of Feral druids and Paladins as tanks and the constant changes between fire, ice and arcane specs proves this point in the most popular MMO.
a pure pve lacks any competition between players and a pure pvp lacks any cooperation between players.
DPS meters? Tanking slots? Healing meters? Elite raiders vs second stringers? There's competition.
Zergs and Blobs? DAOC 8 man squads? Bane exploiting? 5man arena vs 2 man arena? There's cooperation.
Even fighting games are better PvP.
I used to desire having fighting game mechanics in an MMO but after Age of Conan I see the flaws of trying to use such a system.
In fighters you can't run away and fighting games don't give players the same level of movement we see in MMOs.
No offense OP ...but Monster Hunter 2 was released on the PS2 for the US within its first 2 years and it was an online game. Honestly I beta tested it and didn't see the appeal I don't even think typical PvE MMO players will enjoy it.
Really? What was the one thing that really bothered you the most about this game? How did the combat work because to my understanding it is different from autotargeting mechanics. I believe you have to time your strikes with corresponding animations.
I will never understand the level of cowardice and fear of PVP you see from PVEers, especially when these people spend up to 4 hours a night repeatedly being rolled by AI-controlled scripted bosses for tiny incremental improvements in gear, yet they scream and whine when killed a couple of times by an actual player that doesn't have super boss powers.
doesn't make any sense to me.
I think that the reason is fairly obvious: in PvE everyone wins (eventually), while PvP has winners and losers. People don't like to lose. The number of PvEers who do the challenging endgame raids is small for the same reason: people don't like to die. This is why PvE is more popular than PvP, and why games will continue to have dumbed down PvE outside of endgame raids -- because the vast majority of people do not like to raid or do PvP, but want PvE content that they can "casually" play through and not die.
I will never understand why people pay $15 a month to casually solo play an MMO.
You don't understand because your statment is TOTALY wrong. PvE People CAN solo, but 99% DON'T. They enjoy Compleating quests, advancing the Story lines, and going through Dungeons with thier Friends and Guilds. I have nothing against PvP, I just don't care for it. As For witch would sell more, a PvP or PvE MMO? Well thats a no brainer. What do 99% of the MMO's gear to now? PvE {With a Little PvP to make others Happy}
Agree or disagree, Thats what sells, so thats what they make. Nothing wrong with PvP, It has a Following, but from what I see, Most PvP players think they are the majority. They are not, and the games that are made prove it.
Not true. The second best selling game is Guild Wars. WoW may be the best selling by large amount. But GW , as far as box sales, blows the PvE based games out of the water and then some.
The problem is most of the PvP in most MMORPGs and the underlying RPG systems just plain suck at PvP.
Guild Wars created a game with decent balance, very good interface and an equal footing. And it destroyed most PvE games.
Say whatever you want about GW not having world PvP or whatever. Its not germaine. Both PvE and PvP sell and both sell well. That has been proven.
The problem is most games not made by ArenaNet or Blizzard are seriously lacking in certain factors that make a game have the serious sales those two do.
Has nothing to do with PvE or PvP per se. Has more to do with quality. To be sure if you want to make PvP a important focus then what qualifies as quality will be changed to some degree.
But fact remains that the major difference are certain hard to define things those companies do that others do not.
Guild Wars. Like it or not was a Well put together game................AND FREE.
I played it and ALL the expansions. ALL PvE side. NEVER played the PvP part.
The story was awesome. and thats what draged PvE players in. Like I said 99% are PvE. but some {Like Guild Wars and EVE} are made for PvP, but they are STILL the minority.
Bollocks!
In a pure PvP game the players make the story and anything can happen.
In a pure PvE game the computer tells you a scripted story, every player has the same experience and the story ends.
However no-one has released a PvP mmo yet apart from EvE and UO 10 years ago (there was Shadowbane but it failed) so there is no way of really comparing the popularity of the two gaming types. Virtually every mmo that gets released is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought (eg WoW, EQ2. L2, Vanguard)
How can all of these idiots keep saying that PvE is more popular when we only have PvE games to choose from?
Bollocks!
In a pure PvP game the players make the story and anything can happen.
In a pure PvE game the computer tells you a scripted story, every player has the same experience and the story ends.
However no-one has released a PvP mmo yet apart from EvE and UO 10 years ago (there was Shadowbane but it failed) so there is no way of really comparing the popularity of the two gaming types. Virtually every mmo that gets released is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought (eg WoW, EQ2. L2, Vanguard)
How can all of these idiots keep saying that PvE is more popular when we only have PvE games to choose from?
You answered your own question. Quit taking this so personal. MMO's are a Business like any other. It's all supply and demand. PvE is what the majority want, so thats what they make. It's not that there isn't a demand for PvP, It's just a smaller market. So they try to blend in some PvP into the PvE to help capture part of that croud too. EVE is a HUGE PvP game that has a big Following, but because PvP is a Minority you don't see it being sold at Best Buy or Game Stop. It's Online sales.
I am not knocking PvP at all. Every one has different likes and dislikes. Businesses go with demand, thats just the cold hard truth.
Except CCP just made a deal with Atari to put EVE in stores early next year.
We'll get to see how a PvP game will sell then.
A very good pure PvP game would outsell any of the current games out right now except for maybe WOW (too many fanbois to contend with).
All of the PvPers from the different games would play that one game while the PvEers stayed in their respective games because the setting fits their RP needs.
PvPers care almost exclusively about gameplay and balance.
PvEers are more a mix of story/roleplay, social aspects, gameplay, and balance.
The Official God FAQ
Bollocks!
In a pure PvP game the players make the story and anything can happen.
In a pure PvE game the computer tells you a scripted story, every player has the same experience and the story ends.
However no-one has released a PvP mmo yet apart from EvE and UO 10 years ago (there was Shadowbane but it failed) so there is no way of really comparing the popularity of the two gaming types. Virtually every mmo that gets released is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought (eg WoW, EQ2. L2, Vanguard)
How can all of these idiots keep saying that PvE is more popular when we only have PvE games to choose from?
You answered your own question. Quit taking this so personal. MMO's are a Business like any other. It's all supply and demand. PvE is what the majority want, so thats what they make. It's not that there isn't a demand for PvP, It's just a smaller market. So they try to blend in some PvP into the PvE to help capture part of that croud too. EVE is a HUGE PvP game that has a big Following, but because PvP is a Minority you don't see it being sold at Best Buy or Game Stop. It's Online sales.
I am not knocking PvP at all. Every one has different likes and dislikes. Businesses go with demand, thats just the cold hard truth.
I disagree. PvE just happens to fit into the majority of players gamestyle, but it isn't their forte. Socializing, roleplaying, etc. all fits into the PvE category.
PvPers aren't as much of a minority as you think.
The Official God FAQ
Bollocks!
In a pure PvP game the players make the story and anything can happen.
In a pure PvE game the computer tells you a scripted story, every player has the same experience and the story ends.
However no-one has released a PvP mmo yet apart from EvE and UO 10 years ago (there was Shadowbane but it failed) so there is no way of really comparing the popularity of the two gaming types. Virtually every mmo that gets released is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought (eg WoW, EQ2. L2, Vanguard)
How can all of these idiots keep saying that PvE is more popular when we only have PvE games to choose from?
You answered your own question. Quit taking this so personal. MMO's are a Business like any other. It's all supply and demand. PvE is what the majority want, so thats what they make. It's not that there isn't a demand for PvP, It's just a smaller market. So they try to blend in some PvP into the PvE to help capture part of that croud too. EVE is a HUGE PvP game that has a big Following, but because PvP is a Minority you don't see it being sold at Best Buy or Game Stop. It's Online sales.
I am not knocking PvP at all. Every one has different likes and dislikes. Businesses go with demand, thats just the cold hard truth.
I disagree. PvE just happens to fit into the majority of players gamestyle, but it isn't their forte. Socializing, roleplaying, etc. all fits into the PvE category.
PvPers aren't as much of a minority as you think.
spoken like a True PvPer.
They make a Game to sell. they don't say "HMMM People like this,,,, but screw Them I will make what they don't want." they make what people are wanting. Once again I'm NOT knoking PvP. But you can't close your eyes to sales. PvP is a big part of the gameing world but the sales Prove PvE is what is in demand
Bollocks!
In a pure PvP game the players make the story and anything can happen.
In a pure PvE game the computer tells you a scripted story, every player has the same experience and the story ends.
However no-one has released a PvP mmo yet apart from EvE and UO 10 years ago (there was Shadowbane but it failed) so there is no way of really comparing the popularity of the two gaming types. Virtually every mmo that gets released is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought (eg WoW, EQ2. L2, Vanguard)
How can all of these idiots keep saying that PvE is more popular when we only have PvE games to choose from?
You answered your own question. Quit taking this so personal. MMO's are a Business like any other. It's all supply and demand. PvE is what the majority want, so thats what they make. It's not that there isn't a demand for PvP, It's just a smaller market. So they try to blend in some PvP into the PvE to help capture part of that croud too. EVE is a HUGE PvP game that has a big Following, but because PvP is a Minority you don't see it being sold at Best Buy or Game Stop. It's Online sales.
I am not knocking PvP at all. Every one has different likes and dislikes. Businesses go with demand, thats just the cold hard truth.
I disagree. PvE just happens to fit into the majority of players gamestyle, but it isn't their forte. Socializing, roleplaying, etc. all fits into the PvE category.
PvPers aren't as much of a minority as you think.
spoken like a True PvPer.
They make a Game to sell. they don't say "HMMM People like this,,,, but screw Them I will make what they don't want." they make what people are wanting. Once again I'm NOT knoking PvP. But you can't close your eyes to sales. PvP is a big part of the gameing world but the sales Prove PvE is what is in demand
AOC broke sales records, please tell me what the focus of that game was?
......Oh yes, open world free for all pvp.
Everyone who bought the game knew that, so don't tell me PvE games sell better. It's obvious players are looking for a great pvp game.
The Official God FAQ
You obviously never played Ultima Online when it had open PVP. What a mess.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
Bollocks!
In a pure PvP game the players make the story and anything can happen.
In a pure PvE game the computer tells you a scripted story, every player has the same experience and the story ends.
However no-one has released a PvP mmo yet apart from EvE and UO 10 years ago (there was Shadowbane but it failed) so there is no way of really comparing the popularity of the two gaming types. Virtually every mmo that gets released is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought (eg WoW, EQ2. L2, Vanguard)
How can all of these idiots keep saying that PvE is more popular when we only have PvE games to choose from?
You answered your own question. Quit taking this so personal. MMO's are a Business like any other. It's all supply and demand. PvE is what the majority want, so thats what they make. It's not that there isn't a demand for PvP, It's just a smaller market. So they try to blend in some PvP into the PvE to help capture part of that croud too. EVE is a HUGE PvP game that has a big Following, but because PvP is a Minority you don't see it being sold at Best Buy or Game Stop. It's Online sales.
I am not knocking PvP at all. Every one has different likes and dislikes. Businesses go with demand, thats just the cold hard truth.
I disagree. PvE just happens to fit into the majority of players gamestyle, but it isn't their forte. Socializing, roleplaying, etc. all fits into the PvE category.
PvPers aren't as much of a minority as you think.
spoken like a True PvPer.
They make a Game to sell. they don't say "HMMM People like this,,,, but screw Them I will make what they don't want." they make what people are wanting. Once again I'm NOT knoking PvP. But you can't close your eyes to sales. PvP is a big part of the gameing world but the sales Prove PvE is what is in demand
AOC broke sales records, please tell me what the focus of that game was?
......Oh yes, open world free for all pvp.
Everyone who bought the game knew that, so don't tell me PvE games sell better. It's obvious players are looking for a great pvp game.
Which is why it had more PvE servers than PvP, and if AOC main focus was PvP as you say, why have the devs spent the last 3 months creating a PvP system from scratch? If it ever was a PvPers game to begin with surley it would have shipped PvP ready instead of having the bog standard PvP servers that most PvE games launch with.
Currently the AoC PvPers are demanding server merges, some are even asking for merges with the PvE servers...
PVE hands down.
It all has to do with the "E" in PVE. MMO's are about the environment and even those MMO's that feature solid PVP are beholden to the setting/world the game is in. Most folks buy a MMO to explore the world..aka. environment.
Take away the the environment and you get games like Unreal Tournament which are fun in their own right, but do not foster the mindset or provide the setting/structure that is needed to sustain a MMO.
Strangely, both fans and Devs alike are stuck on the idea that PVE requires grinding. Pen and paper games as well as many single players games have shown this is NOT the only path. To be sure, there must be action and killing, but there are other ways to create an environment that fosters story, exploration, teamwork and player contribution to the game.
PVP is inherently self destructive in its nature... being that the idea is to destroy the "other guy" before he gets you. Again, PVP doesn't have to be this way, just as PVE doesn't have to be a grind, but from what I have seen on these forums "Kill or be Killed" is EXACTLY what hardcore PVP'ers want.
PVP might be more popular and more respected were it not for the stigma that griefing, name calling (like calling folks carebears), teabagging, and general asshattery that has become synonomous with PVP play. Most folks don't want to deal with this in their entertainment and thus choose PVE or, at the bravest, structured PVP with penalty systems.
Until this "perceived" attitude of the PVP playerbase changes, then PVE will continue to rule in the sales.
Bollocks!
In a pure PvP game the players make the story and anything can happen.
In a pure PvE game the computer tells you a scripted story, every player has the same experience and the story ends.
However no-one has released a PvP mmo yet apart from EvE and UO 10 years ago (there was Shadowbane but it failed) so there is no way of really comparing the popularity of the two gaming types. Virtually every mmo that gets released is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought (eg WoW, EQ2. L2, Vanguard)
How can all of these idiots keep saying that PvE is more popular when we only have PvE games to choose from?
You answered your own question. Quit taking this so personal. MMO's are a Business like any other. It's all supply and demand. PvE is what the majority want, so thats what they make. It's not that there isn't a demand for PvP, It's just a smaller market. So they try to blend in some PvP into the PvE to help capture part of that croud too. EVE is a HUGE PvP game that has a big Following, but because PvP is a Minority you don't see it being sold at Best Buy or Game Stop. It's Online sales.
I am not knocking PvP at all. Every one has different likes and dislikes. Businesses go with demand, thats just the cold hard truth.
What me? Taking it personally? I dont know what you mean.......
Everythings personal if you're a person
Actually the ONLY reason why PvE games are so popular is because
1. Devs are used to making single player games so nearly every mmo that comes out is a massively multiplayer single player game. They are easier to make successfully! Its got NOTHING to do with what the playerbase wants. PvE games get made more frequently because they are easier to make.
2. We are all used to playing single player games and mmos are simply an extention of that. In a similar way that the devs are not used to making them, the players themselves are not used to playing PvP mmos.
Basicly people are not currently being given the choice. If I want to play a pure PvP mmo what choice do I have? There is EvE and then there are two failed games (Shadowbane and Fury). I suppose I could play UO if I wanted to play an outdated 10 year old game. Basicly I have 1 game to choose from. Thats really crap!
Companies are NOT catering to the demand of the consumers. They are TELLING the consumers that they want PvE by only giving them PvE games. Its easier for the games companies this way. The funny thing is that most players think they are getting what they want but actually they are getting what they are given.
I think in the future this will change. In fact we are already seeing a number of PvP-focused games coming our way. If people want to play games against the computer with their friends (how many of you actually play exclusively with your real life friends anyway?) then I think there will always be games that cater for that but allowing players to fully interact with each other (yeah thats right FULL interaction) is the natural way for online gaming to go. The PvE mindset will get shoved out of the way eventually.......the consumers dont get to choose what becomes popular......its the games companies which do that by making good games.
If good quality PvP games start appearing then the overall answer to this thread would change to "Why should we bother with boring PvE games when there are LOADS of really good PvP mmos available?". Unfortunately this is currently not the case as virtually no decent PvP games have been made so people have a biased negative opinion of PvP games.
Keep on believing that. That's not how the consumer/business relationship typically works.
When companies do try to tell consumers they want a product they actually use a marketing campaign the types of which we've never seen for MMO marketing campaigns.
The closest example I've seen of that type being attempted was by Brad McQuad with Vanguard by trying to capitalize on the buzz word core gamer.
Didn't read the 7-8 pages, but I felt like throwing my five cents in here..
Eve Online is heavy PvP, and most think of Eve as a purely PvP game. With the playerdriven market, the combat and everything else.
A game like WoW is heavy PvE, I'd say, because of the grinding and raiding, but endgame is more pvp-influenced..
Which of theese two sell best? (:..
Anyways, my vote goes to PvP, mostly because I think people like interacting with other people, and, with Web 3.0 in mind, that's where things are going.
If WoW went ALL PvP, in the EvE Online sense, I think it'd be very, very popular.
Follow my tweet (: