Eh, my only problem with WoW is that it hasn't stolen quite everything from WAR yet.
It will come... soon...
And we will have World of Warhammercraft, where leveling from pvp will be easily accessable and such.
Until that happens, I'ma play free MMOs, although I hate Guild Wars' patching system. 200mb per area to load? I was like "wtf!?" when I came back from my three year-ish absence.
I am playing EVE and it's alright... level V skills are a bit much.
i'm very happy for those that are paying a monthly subscription to play their favorite mmorpg. I, however, am left with the impression that the monthly sub is a complete and total scam. Weigh the pay to play paradigm against the complete and utter stagnation of this industry in the last 4 years and, if you're like me, you may see it for the scam it is.
I dont deny that innovation is lacking
but at the same time, I think the current mmos are more entertaining than the majority of new PC games
$15.00 a month for doing the same old stuff year after year?
I dont agree it a scam
I personally find it cheap entertainment (despite the issues)
Paulscott, cant talk with ya bud you just want to look down and say im wrong. You are combative and argumentative and look for every chance you can for subtle attacks on my intelligence. Surely I must be "wrong" because we don't agree.
Gameloading i dont buy the nostaliga arguement one little bit. There is nothing nostaligic about wanting to move from task driven games that have beautiful landscapes and completely stagnatated game play. Its not a lack of technical ability or some desentization on my part that drives shitty games. Why do mobs need to stand around and wait to be killed? Why do we have to have crappy quest hubs with crappy quests to get crappy gear? I'm not new to this genre. I've seen era's come and go and today's lack of innovation on the developer's part is not my problem (quite literally since I'm not playing). All games suck because they are basically rehashed versions of the same game.
Let me say it again: All games that have task driven quests, level based hierarchial based content systems are clones of one another. Its like having different versions of a word processor or cans of Cola Soda. THey may have slightly different flavors but they all fizz. An open ended world like UO or early era Eq is what some of us are looking for.
An opinion cannot necessarily be wrong, but it is not necesarily right because it is opinion. You have stated yours, others are telling you that that is not the fact of the genre but just your opion. Your opinion may not be wrong to you, but since it is opinion it is wrong to others.
Stagnated game play is largely opinion, not fact, especially for new gamers since of course then it's not stagnated (thats where part of the nostalgia would come in, you've been there and done it).
Shitty games is opinion, not fact.
Most games have have static mobs AND wondering mobs, actually I've never played an MMO that didn't. EQ, EQ2, WoW, SWG, CoX, HZ, LOTRO, DAOC, Vanguard they all had wondering mobs.
Crappy is completely opinion, not fact.
I'm not new to the genre either and haven't seen a lot of era's. I'm doing the same thing now as I did in early EQ, which to me is getting stale because again I've been there and done that, so it's me thats changed, not the games.
"They all fizzz" Thats the definition of soda, carbonation.
Early EQ is almost exactly the same as modern games. level based hierarchial based content with level grind, mob grind, quest grind. No different than today. So if this is what you are looking for, there is a plethora of them availble.
You don't want a clone but you want something like early EQ of which most games today are a clone of, doesn't make a lot of sense.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Eh, my only problem with WoW is that it hasn't stolen quite everything from WAR yet. It will come... soon... And we will have World of Warhammercraft, where leveling from pvp will be easily accessable and such. Until that happens, I'ma play free MMOs, although I hate Guild Wars' patching system. 200mb per area to load? I was like "wtf!?" when I came back from my three year-ish absence.
You can fix that pretty quickly. I thinks it's something like opening up your shortcut and adding -D at the end of it. It should be on the guildwarsguru forums or in one of their guides.
Though it does take a nice long while, but it is faster than passively leaving the login screen up for a night. which works as well.
Originally posted by Rekindle
Let me say it again: All games that have task driven quests, level based hierarchial based content systems are clones of one another. Its like having different versions of a word processor or cans of Cola Soda. THey may have slightly different flavors but they all fizz.
I consider this successful progress because now you aren't subtyping the games that I play as idiotic rehashes of the "World of Everclone" subtype. Even if they do have issues in their other aspects.
I don't disagree with you that a lot of games are "World of Everclone" but I utterly hate the fact that you offer no alternatives and blatently tell people not to play the alternatives because other different games suck.
The only way that the genre will change is when people see what few alternatives there and start to play them. This is the only way to get "feature envy", "income envy", and whatever else into the heads of AAA developers so they actually make something different.
Vetoing the whole genre will not change it at all, it'll just concentrate the people who are perfectly happy with it staying + playing + paying.
Basically I see your mindset as the real death of the genre. Not the "world of everclone" subtype which will eventually knock itself out.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
but most of all, quit coming here and telling MMO players that they are wrong and stupid for playing the games they play, and then whining when someone takes issue with your point of view, and has the nerve to disagree.
we get it, you want a sandbox game. I just named two sandbox games for you to play. why don't you simply play them instead of constantly complaining that there are no sandbox games, because that is a flat out lie.
I've played nearly every major MMO there was dating back to UO. and the OP of this thread is absolutely no better than any of the people he is complaining about "talking down to him and telling him he is wrong." You are doing the exact same thing they are doing, except you think it is okay as long as you are the one doing the talking down from on top of your pedestal.
i'm not trying to change anything. i'm simply stating my opinion that all games suck. The reason I'm able to much such a general statement that covers all mmorpg games is because they all suck. i'm very happy for those that are paying a monthly subscription to play their favorite mmorpg. I, however, am left with the impression that the monthly sub is a complete and total scam. Weigh the pay to play paradigm against the complete and utter stagnation of this industry in the last 4 years and, if you're like me, you may see it for the scam it is. i think some you think i'm here trying to sway you from your World of Warcraft. Unlike some people who totally despise this game I'm able to see that I am indeed in the minority. That doesn't change the fact that you used to get something unique with a montly subscription cost. Now the entire system is a complete scam designed systematically as gear quest online. The "solution" has already been implemented: I no longer play these games. This doesn't stop me from talking about why I no longer play them and it doesnt stop people from trying to talk down from their mighty pedistals of all knowing. thats the great thing about message boards when used properly....they can be used to discuss people's opinons on subjects even if they aren't like your own.
You are right. It’s a message board and you can post what you like. However what do you think it’s going to get you, since you yourself admit you are in the minority? I have seen many similar threads and the one thing they have in common is they are all complaints with no solutions. It’s the same thing over and over. But post away if you like. By the way, I quit WoW to work on my own game and I’m not playing any other games currently, so you don’t have to sway me from WoW. I do however still think it’s a good game and I won’t hesitate to copy things I like about it and throw out things I don’t.
Most people who can't find an MMOG they like are actually looking for a game where they kick ass and others don't. They may label features as "sucky", game-styles as "inferior", and people enjoying current games as "kids" and "fanbois" (or "morons") to explain why current games don't suit them, but bottom line is that they don't kick ass in those games and thus can't stand playing them.
Most people who can't find an MMOG they like are actually looking for a game where they kick ass and others don't. They may label features as "sucky", game-styles as "inferior", and people enjoying current games as "kids" and "fanbois" (or "morons") to explain why current games don't suit them, but bottom line is that they don't kick ass in those games and thus can't stand playing them.
Not true for me anyway.
I was a member of a top 200 alliance USA guild in WoW. I was sought after by many guilds in WoW for my skill as a enchance shammy.
Besides my skills, I was always looking for an edge. If there was a best possible item / enchant, I always had it. Food, flasks, etc you name it I had it. I spent more on my weapon enchants than most players have ever even had.
In Star Wars Galaxies I was the best known Droid Engineer on my server. If there was a resource spawn that was just .1% better I had to have it. Capped my skill clothing, etc. Nobody made a better droid than I did. Nor did other vendors offer the wide choices and combinations I had.
My chief complaint is I want a game thats not easy. I shouldnt run out of things to do to better myself. I should be able to make myself better than the next player with sheer effort and time invested. Today's games are so carebear and easy its pathetic.
Star Wars Galaxies 3 years ago and today is a classic example of MMO's now. Years ago it took real effort to get a jedi knight character. Now its given to the player from day 1.
WoW - a player can get best possible gear and skills within 2 months. In SWG it would take years and years and even then there was always a way to make yourself better.
Wow is the biggest part of the problem now a days. How about going in a different direction and listening "with in reason" to the people who pay them. Now that would be EPIC!
WOW's developer listen to the people who pay them (just look at the blue posts in their forums). But those 11M paying customers are just not you. WOW *is* pretty EPIC in terms of its success and how much the developers listen & tweak stuff.
Oh .. TOR *is* going in a different direction ... more story focus, NPC companions, and presumably fewer hack-n-slash quests as in WOW. It is just not the direction *you* want.
Paulscott, cant talk with ya bud you just want to look down and say im wrong. You are combative and argumentative and look for every chance you can for subtle attacks on my intelligence. Surely I must be "wrong" because we don't agree.
Gameloading i dont buy the nostaliga arguement one little bit. There is nothing nostaligic about wanting to move from task driven games that have beautiful landscapes and completely stagnatated game play. Its not a lack of technical ability or some desentization on my part that drives shitty games. Why do mobs need to stand around and wait to be killed? Why do we have to have crappy quest hubs with crappy quests to get crappy gear? I'm not new to this genre. I've seen era's come and go and today's lack of innovation on the developer's part is not my problem (quite literally since I'm not playing). All games suck because they are basically rehashed versions of the same game.
Let me say it again: All games that have task driven quests, level based hierarchial based content systems are clones of one another. Its like having different versions of a word processor or cans of Cola Soda. THey may have slightly different flavors but they all fizz. An open ended world like UO or early era Eq is what some of us are looking for.
It clearly is nostalgia. If you don't like to run around doing quests...then don't! There are loads of MMORPG's that don't have quests or where quests are only a minor part of the gameplay experience.
Launch up a Lineage 2 or Final Fantasy XI and you'll get what you're looking for.
Also, saying that just because a game has quests it's a clone is downright ignorant.f you add more quests to EVE Online, does that give you the same experience as WoW? Ofcourse not.
It clearly is nostalgia. If you don't like to run around doing quests...then don't! There are loads of MMORPG's that don't have quests or where quests are only a minor part of the gameplay experience. Launch up a Lineage 2 or Final Fantasy XI and you'll get what you're looking for. Also, saying that just because a game has quests it's a clone is downright ignorant.f you add more quests to EVE Online, does that give you the same experience as WoW? Ofcourse not.
Eve does have "quests" or task driven content except they call it missions. Eve is not a WoW clone.
Everyone had a template to make the gen 2 games - it was EQ and to some degree DAOC. These early games opened up 3d worlds with static mobs (called mobile objects back in the day). They each had D&D style armor class / combat systems. Each game had d&d style level systems. Each game had a UI that allows you to interact with the game in a simlar fashion. WSAD / Click to move ...binds/gates/recalls rapid transportation systems.
The gen 2 / 3 games like Wow & LOTR / Vanguard have the exact same systems. Its not ignorant to suggest that these games are more alike than different.
You continue to insist that WoW clone is a misnomer term and have gone as far to suggest that I am ignorant for suggesting so but I would suggest you place the simlarities of these games down on a piece of paper and you likely find more common ground than differences.
I think its absurd of you to suggest that there are really enough differences between EQ2/Vanguard/LOTR /WoW etc to say they are truly unique games. You may think i made a general off the cuff statement by suggesting all mmorpg games suck. However, its the fact that these games are all basically the same game with subtle differences (differences that do give them a slightly different flavor) that makes it very easy to make such generalizations.
I fail to see how complete disdain for mmorpg games which are basically all the same translates into some desire to repatriate feelings of old. I understand the nostagia effect and in actuality I'm not looking to play the old game or its successors which are basicaly new versions of the old game. In actuality its quite teh opposite as I would really like to see a new mmorpg game that is sandbox and different than whats come before. In 4 years that has yet to happen.
Wow is the biggest part of the problem now a days. How about going in a different direction and listening "with in reason" to the people who pay them. Now that would be EPIC!
WOW's developer listen to the people who pay them (just look at the blue posts in their forums). But those 11M paying customers are just not you. WOW *is* pretty EPIC in terms of its success and how much the developers listen & tweak stuff.
Oh .. TOR *is* going in a different direction ... more story focus, NPC companions, and presumably fewer hack-n-slash quests as in WOW. It is just not the direction *you* want.
You mean, its going to be a single player game (Kotor) that you have to pay monthly for, and you have item shop microtransactions to boot.
Not true for me anyway. I was a member of a top 200 alliance USA guild in WoW. I was sought after by many guilds in WoW for my skill as a enchance shammy. Besides my skills, I was always looking for an edge. If there was a best possible item / enchant, I always had it. Food, flasks, etc you name it I had it. I spent more on my weapon enchants than most players have ever even had. In Star Wars Galaxies I was the best known Droid Engineer on my server. If there was a resource spawn that was just .1% better I had to have it. Capped my skill clothing, etc. Nobody made a better droid than I did. Nor did other vendors offer the wide choices and combinations I had. My chief complaint is I want a game thats not easy. I shouldnt run out of things to do to better myself. I should be able to make myself better than the next player with sheer effort and time invested. Today's games are so carebear and easy its pathetic. Star Wars Galaxies 3 years ago and today is a classic example of MMO's now. Years ago it took real effort to get a jedi knight character. Now its given to the player from day 1. WoW - a player can get best possible gear and skills within 2 months. In SWG it would take years and years and even then there was always a way to make yourself better. MMO's today suck
I would imagine that you were one of those players in Trade chat talking sh** on a level 5 character about how you had 10 70's back in the day too weren't you?
Wow is the biggest part of the problem now a days. How about going in a different direction and listening "with in reason" to the people who pay them. Now that would be EPIC!
WOW's developer listen to the people who pay them (just look at the blue posts in their forums). But those 11M paying customers are just not you. WOW *is* pretty EPIC in terms of its success and how much the developers listen & tweak stuff.
Oh .. TOR *is* going in a different direction ... more story focus, NPC companions, and presumably fewer hack-n-slash quests as in WOW. It is just not the direction *you* want.
Actually most of my requests would be Vanilla compared to half that I even see on the WoW forums and about 1/4 that i see here. You Need to remove your foot from your mouth as you don't seem to even know me or what i would request as I did not state that in this post. and Listening to their subs by saying "soon" is not listening, it is placating.
Comments
Eh, my only problem with WoW is that it hasn't stolen quite everything from WAR yet.
It will come... soon...
And we will have World of Warhammercraft, where leveling from pvp will be easily accessable and such.
Until that happens, I'ma play free MMOs, although I hate Guild Wars' patching system. 200mb per area to load? I was like "wtf!?" when I came back from my three year-ish absence.
I am playing EVE and it's alright... level V skills are a bit much.
You all need to learn to spell.
I dont deny that innovation is lacking
but at the same time, I think the current mmos are more entertaining than the majority of new PC games
$15.00 a month for doing the same old stuff year after year?
I dont agree it a scam
I personally find it cheap entertainment (despite the issues)
EQ2 fan sites
An opinion cannot necessarily be wrong, but it is not necesarily right because it is opinion. You have stated yours, others are telling you that that is not the fact of the genre but just your opion. Your opinion may not be wrong to you, but since it is opinion it is wrong to others.
Stagnated game play is largely opinion, not fact, especially for new gamers since of course then it's not stagnated (thats where part of the nostalgia would come in, you've been there and done it).
Shitty games is opinion, not fact.
Most games have have static mobs AND wondering mobs, actually I've never played an MMO that didn't. EQ, EQ2, WoW, SWG, CoX, HZ, LOTRO, DAOC, Vanguard they all had wondering mobs.
Crappy is completely opinion, not fact.
I'm not new to the genre either and haven't seen a lot of era's. I'm doing the same thing now as I did in early EQ, which to me is getting stale because again I've been there and done that, so it's me thats changed, not the games.
"They all fizzz" Thats the definition of soda, carbonation.
Early EQ is almost exactly the same as modern games. level based hierarchial based content with level grind, mob grind, quest grind. No different than today. So if this is what you are looking for, there is a plethora of them availble.
You don't want a clone but you want something like early EQ of which most games today are a clone of, doesn't make a lot of sense.
Venge Sunsoar
off topic, GuildWars
there is a way you can download all new content before you launch the game
use the -image option in your GW shortcut to launch the game
wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/-image#-image
example:
"C:Program FilesGuild WarsGw.exe" -image
EQ2 fan sites
You can fix that pretty quickly. I thinks it's something like opening up your shortcut and adding -D at the end of it. It should be on the guildwarsguru forums or in one of their guides.
Though it does take a nice long while, but it is faster than passively leaving the login screen up for a night. which works as well.
I consider this successful progress because now you aren't subtyping the games that I play as idiotic rehashes of the "World of Everclone" subtype. Even if they do have issues in their other aspects.
I don't disagree with you that a lot of games are "World of Everclone" but I utterly hate the fact that you offer no alternatives and blatently tell people not to play the alternatives because other different games suck.
The only way that the genre will change is when people see what few alternatives there and start to play them. This is the only way to get "feature envy", "income envy", and whatever else into the heads of AAA developers so they actually make something different.
Vetoing the whole genre will not change it at all, it'll just concentrate the people who are perfectly happy with it staying + playing + paying.
Basically I see your mindset as the real death of the genre. Not the "world of everclone" subtype which will eventually knock itself out.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Here are some solutions.
Play EVE Online.
Play Ryzom.
but most of all, quit coming here and telling MMO players that they are wrong and stupid for playing the games they play, and then whining when someone takes issue with your point of view, and has the nerve to disagree.
we get it, you want a sandbox game. I just named two sandbox games for you to play. why don't you simply play them instead of constantly complaining that there are no sandbox games, because that is a flat out lie.
I've played nearly every major MMO there was dating back to UO. and the OP of this thread is absolutely no better than any of the people he is complaining about "talking down to him and telling him he is wrong." You are doing the exact same thing they are doing, except you think it is okay as long as you are the one doing the talking down from on top of your pedestal.
You are right. It’s a message board and you can post what you like. However what do you think it’s going to get you, since you yourself admit you are in the minority? I have seen many similar threads and the one thing they have in common is they are all complaints with no solutions. It’s the same thing over and over. But post away if you like. By the way, I quit WoW to work on my own game and I’m not playing any other games currently, so you don’t have to sway me from WoW. I do however still think it’s a good game and I won’t hesitate to copy things I like about it and throw out things I don’t.
Good luck with your gaming in 2009.
Im currently not playing any MMO. I find myself going back and trying games that never appealed to me out of desperation but I quickly cancel.
Nothing comes close to the sheer joy I felt in Star Wars Galaxies pre-cu
I haven't played an MMO in 3 years. WoW and its various clones disgust me.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Most people who can't find an MMOG they like are actually looking for a game where they kick ass and others don't. They may label features as "sucky", game-styles as "inferior", and people enjoying current games as "kids" and "fanbois" (or "morons") to explain why current games don't suit them, but bottom line is that they don't kick ass in those games and thus can't stand playing them.
Not true for me anyway.
I was a member of a top 200 alliance USA guild in WoW. I was sought after by many guilds in WoW for my skill as a enchance shammy.
Besides my skills, I was always looking for an edge. If there was a best possible item / enchant, I always had it. Food, flasks, etc you name it I had it. I spent more on my weapon enchants than most players have ever even had.
In Star Wars Galaxies I was the best known Droid Engineer on my server. If there was a resource spawn that was just .1% better I had to have it. Capped my skill clothing, etc. Nobody made a better droid than I did. Nor did other vendors offer the wide choices and combinations I had.
My chief complaint is I want a game thats not easy. I shouldnt run out of things to do to better myself. I should be able to make myself better than the next player with sheer effort and time invested. Today's games are so carebear and easy its pathetic.
Star Wars Galaxies 3 years ago and today is a classic example of MMO's now. Years ago it took real effort to get a jedi knight character. Now its given to the player from day 1.
WoW - a player can get best possible gear and skills within 2 months. In SWG it would take years and years and even then there was always a way to make yourself better.
MMO's today suck
WOW's developer listen to the people who pay them (just look at the blue posts in their forums). But those 11M paying customers are just not you. WOW *is* pretty EPIC in terms of its success and how much the developers listen & tweak stuff.
Oh .. TOR *is* going in a different direction ... more story focus, NPC companions, and presumably fewer hack-n-slash quests as in WOW. It is just not the direction *you* want.
It clearly is nostalgia. If you don't like to run around doing quests...then don't! There are loads of MMORPG's that don't have quests or where quests are only a minor part of the gameplay experience.
Launch up a Lineage 2 or Final Fantasy XI and you'll get what you're looking for.
Also, saying that just because a game has quests it's a clone is downright ignorant.f you add more quests to EVE Online, does that give you the same experience as WoW? Ofcourse not.
Eve does have "quests" or task driven content except they call it missions. Eve is not a WoW clone.
Everyone had a template to make the gen 2 games - it was EQ and to some degree DAOC. These early games opened up 3d worlds with static mobs (called mobile objects back in the day). They each had D&D style armor class / combat systems. Each game had d&d style level systems. Each game had a UI that allows you to interact with the game in a simlar fashion. WSAD / Click to move ...binds/gates/recalls rapid transportation systems.
The gen 2 / 3 games like Wow & LOTR / Vanguard have the exact same systems. Its not ignorant to suggest that these games are more alike than different.
You continue to insist that WoW clone is a misnomer term and have gone as far to suggest that I am ignorant for suggesting so but I would suggest you place the simlarities of these games down on a piece of paper and you likely find more common ground than differences.
I think its absurd of you to suggest that there are really enough differences between EQ2/Vanguard/LOTR /WoW etc to say they are truly unique games. You may think i made a general off the cuff statement by suggesting all mmorpg games suck. However, its the fact that these games are all basically the same game with subtle differences (differences that do give them a slightly different flavor) that makes it very easy to make such generalizations.
I fail to see how complete disdain for mmorpg games which are basically all the same translates into some desire to repatriate feelings of old. I understand the nostagia effect and in actuality I'm not looking to play the old game or its successors which are basicaly new versions of the old game. In actuality its quite teh opposite as I would really like to see a new mmorpg game that is sandbox and different than whats come before. In 4 years that has yet to happen.
Rekindlel, Bro I hope you find that one MMO that makes you happy.
I hope Darkfall comes out and fills that void for ya.
A MMO gamer without a MMO to play is kinda sad imo.
I wish ya the best of luck.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Darkfall seems to be the only one that offers to be different. I am optimistic but not over optimistic.
Thanks metal. A mmo gamer without a mmo game is like a carebear without a tatoo on their gut.
WOW's developer listen to the people who pay them (just look at the blue posts in their forums). But those 11M paying customers are just not you. WOW *is* pretty EPIC in terms of its success and how much the developers listen & tweak stuff.
Oh .. TOR *is* going in a different direction ... more story focus, NPC companions, and presumably fewer hack-n-slash quests as in WOW. It is just not the direction *you* want.
You mean, its going to be a single player game (Kotor) that you have to pay monthly for, and you have item shop microtransactions to boot.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Agreed. all current mmo's suck big hard juicy donkey
WOW's developer listen to the people who pay them (just look at the blue posts in their forums). But those 11M paying customers are just not you. WOW *is* pretty EPIC in terms of its success and how much the developers listen & tweak stuff.
Oh .. TOR *is* going in a different direction ... more story focus, NPC companions, and presumably fewer hack-n-slash quests as in WOW. It is just not the direction *you* want.
Actually most of my requests would be Vanilla compared to half that I even see on the WoW forums and about 1/4 that i see here. You Need to remove your foot from your mouth as you don't seem to even know me or what i would request as I did not state that in this post. and Listening to their subs by saying "soon" is not listening, it is placating.
There are a few ok MMO's left but i miss the days of Shadowbane and Runescape Classic. Life was easier then, sigh.
__________________________
Played:WoW, Darkfall, Warhammer, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Last Chaos, Runescape, Maplestory, Planeshift
Loved: Guild Wars, Eve, Darkfall
Playing:(none)
Waiting for: I don't know