Most of the PvE cry comes from what players commonly experience in MMOs. Getting gear is hard or takes lots of time, and when they see that it can be lost no one really likes what they just earned.
The only thing I really worry about darkfall is how much of the core features that were touted about are cut, and how dependent it is on player integrity. I really get the feeling that they missed the boat on how the majority of their players will act, and the game will crumble. I hope that when they do decide to change things it isn't a drastic change such as a previous mmos have done.
Most of the PvE cry comes from what players commonly experience in MMOs. Getting gear is hard or takes lots of time, and when they see that it can be lost no one really likes what they just earned. The only thing I really worry about darkfall is how much of the core features that were touted about are cut, and how dependent it is on player integrity. I really get the feeling that they missed the boat on how the majority of their players will act, and the game will crumble. I hope that when they do decide to change things it isn't a drastic change such as a previous mmos have done.
all the main ones are there plus ones that havent been mentioned. few thing slike pets and npcs hirlings are out andprestige calsses are maybe out ther enot 100% sure now if there going to add them in after release or not now.
i have a feeling some stuff will lack quality but hopefulyl it stuff that can be improived on like aniamtions meele sounds and what not all can be patched in
Every time I see something from them (coffee shop meeting to Greek convention) It looks and feels like i'm watching some cheap B rated movie.
I mean who really does meetings with the media and potential investors in a Expresso shop ?
Man I hope for his sake the game turns out good. Because if it don't he's gonna get it hard.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
In case you dont know what these meetings are all about:
Opencoffee.gr is an unofficial initiative by some of Greece's software developers to get people of the field together to talk, exchange views and opinions, share ideas and get to know each other.
Obviously not every software developer is familiar with MMOs, because software development does not start and end with game development. Many other specialists gather at these meetings to talk about all sorts of software things.
Tasos used a simple language to convey basic MMO concepts to an audience that might not be familiar with the genre.
He also has never hidden the fact that he believes software development in Greece is shadowed in obscurity and would like more people to get to know the field and get involved.
What he is not looking for is money, as many naive people have mentioned here: the game is ready to launch, so no more money is needed at this stage. He is, however, looking for potential partners located in Greece, and rightfully so.
This meeting was a 'gents club' meeting. They are not aiming at press publicity or anything else. We have been peeping into this meeting and thankfully they have allowed free access to anyone interested; we should be thankful they are proceeding like this and not turning it into a 'members only' club.
In case you dont know what these meetings are all about:
Opencoffee.gr is an unofficial initiative by some of Greece's software developers to get people of the field together to talk, exchange views and opinions, share ideas and get to know each other. Obviously not every software developer is familiar with MMOs, because software development does not start and end with game development. Many other specialists gather at these meetings to talk about all sorts of software things.
Tasos used a simple language to convey basic MMO concepts to an audience that might not be familiar with the genre. He also has never hidden the fact that he believes software development in Greece is shadowed in obscurity and would like more people to get to know the field and get involved. What he is not looking for is money, as many naive people have mentioned here: the game is ready to launch, so no more money is needed at this stage. He is, however, looking for potential partners located in Greece, and rightfully so.
This meeting was a 'gents club' meeting. They are not aiming at press publicity or anything else. We have been peeping into this meeting and thankfully they have allowed free access to anyone interested; we should be thankful they are proceeding like this and not turning it into a 'members only' club.
But with two weeks to go until an official launch, wouldn't his time be better spent with potential players. Maybe have a media demonstration where they can actually play the game?
This was all about scamming investors out of money. Why bring up WOW's 11.5M players and then mention darkfalls's 3M players (sic). This is the same thing they have done in the past with all their 'near beta' comments. They make it seem like they are close to launch, then try and get investors, then postpone the game again.
The ironic thing is that he is working with 'Norwegians'.... which is ... wait for it.... where Funcom is from. Another company that bragged about 'players' and beta applications before the game launched in order to secure 25M in loans.. only to launch a terrible game and watch their stock go from $55 to $3 in 6 months.
Does anyone else think this was more 'fishing for funds' rather than market the game? I mean, the people he was talking to had no idea what MMORPGs are... it's like they had no clue online multi-player games exist.
That is what I got from this and other translations.
But with two weeks to go until an official launch, wouldn't his time be better spent with potential players. Maybe have a media demonstration where they can actually play the game? This was all about scamming investors out of money. Why bring up WOW's 11.5M players and then mention darkfalls's 3M players (sic). This is the same thing they have done in the past with all their 'near beta' comments. They make it seem like they are close to launch, then try and get investors, then postpone the game again. The ironic thing is that he is working with 'Norwegians'.... which is ... wait for it.... where Funcom is from. Another company that bragged about 'players' and beta applications before the game launched in order to secure 25M in loans.. only to launch a terrible game and watch their stock go from $55 to $3 in 6 months.
You are probably just ing, and never bothered reading past the first couple of lines of my post (you wouldn't post that if you had in response to what I wrote),but I'll reply nevertheless:
These meetings take place in order to form business relations, amongst other things, between the software industry professionals in Greece; in other words, business opportunities are a big part of what these meetings aim at.
This meeting was not a promotional meeting for Darkfall.
But with two weeks to go until an official launch, wouldn't his time be better spent with potential players. Maybe have a media demonstration where they can actually play the game? This was all about scamming investors out of money. Why bring up WOW's 11.5M players and then mention darkfalls's 3M players (sic). This is the same thing they have done in the past with all their 'near beta' comments. They make it seem like they are close to launch, then try and get investors, then postpone the game again. The ironic thing is that he is working with 'Norwegians'.... which is ... wait for it.... where Funcom is from. Another company that bragged about 'players' and beta applications before the game launched in order to secure 25M in loans.. only to launch a terrible game and watch their stock go from $55 to $3 in 6 months.
You are probably just ing, and never bothered reading past the first couple of lines of my post (you wouldn't post that if you had in response to what I wrote),but I'll reply nevertheless:
These meetings take place in order to form business relations, amongst other things, between the software industry professionals in Greece; in other words, business opportunities are a big part of what these meetings aim at.
This meeting was not a promotional meeting for Darkfall.
"Suppose you see a bird walking around in a farm yard. This bird has no label that says 'duck'. But the bird certainly looks like a duck. Also, he goes to the pond and you notice that he swims like a duck. Then he opens his beak and quacks like a duck. Well, by this time you have probably reached the conclusion that the bird is a duck, whether he's wearing a label or not."
"Suppose you see a bird walking around in a farm yard. This bird has no label that says 'duck'. But the bird certainly looks like a duck. Also, he goes to the pond and you notice that he swims like a duck. Then he opens his beak and quacks like a duck. Well, by this time you have probably reached the conclusion that the bird is a duck, whether he's wearing a label or not." Or maybe you haven't yet.
OK, let me rephrase that to be more clear; it was a business meeting, so investor opportunities were part of the agenda. So the other 3 guys that presented their projects could very well have this in mind as well.
As for Darkfall, I can't see how they would need investors at this point, seeing as they have already secured a publisher and are ready to launch.
"Suppose you see a bird walking around in a farm yard. This bird has no label that says 'duck'. But the bird certainly looks like a duck. Also, he goes to the pond and you notice that he swims like a duck. Then he opens his beak and quacks like a duck. Well, by this time you have probably reached the conclusion that the bird is a duck, whether he's wearing a label or not." Or maybe you haven't yet.
OK, let me rephrase that to be more clear; it was a business meeting, so investor opportunities were part of the agenda. So the other 3 guys that presented their projects could very well have this in mind as well.
As for Darkfall, I can't see how they would need investors at this point, seeing as they have already secured a publisher and are ready to launch.
they liek to take everything out of context when they dont even have the proper info. its funny to be honest
80 servers of 10000 simultaneous players. thats expecting at least 800,000 players assuming the limit will be 10k characters a server. bit hopeful imo. how does 8 quad core processors per server compare to other mmo servers, it sounds leet.
Especially seeing as they themselves say they can't support 300k users at the moment. -.-
maybe game worlds are hosted by server clusters, multiple clusters. pretty sure this is how eve manages so very many.
30 worlds for 300k. 2.66 servers per cluster?
I think 20 game worlds, 4 servers per cluster is more realistic and is my prediction. how that fits with 300k I don't know, 15000 characters per world but only 10000 can log on at same time?
I believe that Tasos is 100% correct that players do not know what they want. Just look at the number of "PvE servers plz" posts here; most of the people simply does not have the mental capacity and patience to understand complicated mechanics and do not have the knowledge of previous games and concepts and their implication. Shaping game after those who whine on forums (which is what nearly every MMO company does nowadays) means that they are listening to vocal retards and no life teens. He might have clouded it into politically correct shit but he evidently prefers honesty, which is nowadays very rare.
It is evident the majority doesnt know what they want when you see tons of threads crying about the very changes they cries for. (Atleast from my experience on the WoW and WAR forums.)
And yes the honesty of the Darkfall devs is very refreshing.
Are you guys for real? OK, so assuming you're correct and you're too stupid to know what you really want (I could believe that) what makes you so sure that Tasos is the one who does know? Maybe it was actually Adolf Hitler who knew what you really wanted, before all those whiny mindless Allies got together and nerfed him.
Don't make the same mistake so many DF fans are making, assuming that because you like something then it's the more intelligent choice. Especially when you keep providing evidence to the contrary...
I believe that Tasos is 100% correct that players do not know what they want. Just look at the number of "PvE servers plz" posts here; most of the people simply does not have the mental capacity and patience to understand complicated mechanics and do not have the knowledge of previous games and concepts and their implication. Shaping game after those who whine on forums (which is what nearly every MMO company does nowadays) means that they are listening to vocal retards and no life teens. He might have clouded it into politically correct shit but he evidently prefers honesty, which is nowadays very rare.
Originally posted by strongaxe
It is evident the majority doesnt know what they want when you see tons of threads crying about the very changes they cries for. (Atleast from my experience on the WoW and WAR forums.)
And yes the honesty of the Darkfall devs is very refreshing.
Originally posted by Greek_Matt
Are you guys for real? OK, so assuming you're correct and you're too stupid to know what you really want (I could believe that) what makes you so sure that Tasos is the one who does know? Maybe it was actually Adolf Hitler who knew what you really wanted, before all those whiny mindless Allies got together and nerfed him.
First, it is clear to anyone who has read anyone of Tasos' past interviews what the focus and direction Aventurine is going in for Darkfall's design. To make a long story short, and keep it real simple for you, Sandox (Huge Persistent World in this case) MMORPG with a heavy PvP oriented environment. And so, in answer to your question, Tasos would most likely be one of many in Aventurine to know what "we" (and I mean "we" as in Aventurine's intended target audience of PvP oriented gamers). Secondy, as to Adolf Hitler as a reference is a weak analogy. During those times Adolf came into power at a time when the Jewish community was the German people's scapegoat for their economic woes. Hitler saw that as an opportunity to come into power using his hate rhetoric as a platform to become elected (so in a sense, he knew what the German people wanted at the time... this is just historic fact.)
Don't make the same mistake so many DF fans are making, assuming that because you like something then it's the more intelligent choice. Especially when you keep providing evidence to the contrary...
DF fans don't make a mistake in wanting to play a game that seem's to be what Aventurine is providing for them (at least on paper, and we'll see on 22nd as to that point... however I digress... ). This is just logical for a group of players who happen to like a certain style of play and logically play in an MMORPG suited to their needs and desires. And so wouldn't that be the "more intelligent choice." (as you put it) for that group to make? Why would someone/anyone choose to play something not suilted to their preferences? If you've actually bothered to read the above posts, you would have readily understood that the complaint is about people like you ruining games designed for certain niche groups due to the pressure of mass market appeal, at least that's how I interpret it strongaxe's initial post. Yes it's true that PvP'ers will for some reason be outnumbered by PvEers is quite self-evident as shewn in the past with games such as WoW and Warhammer (as Strongaxe points out above). However let us remember that a minority also should have some rights as to what they want out of a PvP game, and as such that most MMORPGs and big companies cave in to the wants, needs, and sometimes QQing of the mass public, we PvP'ers deserve a game made by developers who are obviously catering to our needs (namely the PvPers market). Our gripes are more against the carebears (i.e., mass market), or as Frederick Nietzsche often refered to "the Rabble" (which is a supperior analogy to your Adolf Hitler against Tasos).
With that said, we Darkfall hopefulls don't want "the Rabble" ruining a game that is designed for our niche market. Is that so wrong? I think not considering that so many big companies out there are planning more future carebear-rabble titles such as the often regurgitated mass market appeal "Name Brand" MMO's such as Star Wars TOR, Star Trek, Star Gate (and I'm sure the list goes on and on as the future rolls on... but I again digress...).
Basically, we just want the carebears (the rabble), to stay away from Darkfall as they have MANY choices out there for MMO's to choose from, where we PvPers do not. It's really that simple. Why even swarm in to games like Darkfall as a plague of locust to ruin yet another potentially fun MMO. If it doesn't cater to your needs then why not move on to the greener pastures of big company MMOs and leave this one be. There are plenty of games out there for you and not too many choices for PvPers.
Thanks for posting this over here at MMORPG.Com. I thought about it, but figure no evidence will ever quiet the Vaporware crowd that exists on this forum.
What evidence?? This is just words.
I've noticed you pop up in a lot of DF threads w/ short negative comments, and don't seem to back them up w/ any substantial evidence, nor sound arguments. Just curious as to what your purpose and/or agenda is for doing this in Darkfall forums.
<snip> Are you guys for real? OK, so assuming you're correct and you're too stupid to know what you really want (I could believe that) what makes you so sure that Tasos is the one who does know? Maybe it was actually Adolf Hitler who knew what you really wanted, before all those whiny mindless Allies got together and nerfed him. First, it is clear to anyone who has read anyone of Tasos' past interviews what the focus and direction Aventurine is going in for Darkfall's design. To make a long story short, and keep it real simple for you, Sandox (Huge Persistent World in this case) MMORPG with a heavy PvP oriented environment. And so, in answer to your question, Tasos would most likely be one of many in Aventurine to know what "we" (and I mean "we" as in Aventurine's intended target audience of PvP oriented gamers). Secondy, as to Adolf Hitler as a reference is a weak analogy. During those times Adolf came into power at a time when the Jewish community was the German people's scapegoat for their economic woes. Hitler saw that as an opportunity to come into power using his hate rhetoric as a platform to become elected (so in a sense, he knew what the German people wanted at the time... this is just historic fact.)
<snip> Please don't post things you have no clue about. If you're going to talk about the dark past of my country, get your facts straight first.
Edit: No, I'm not going to start a debate about this, since it doesn't belong here, but if you're going to start pulling analogies and "facts" out of your hat, then at least make them right.
Thanks for posting this over here at MMORPG.Com. I thought about it, but figure no evidence will ever quiet the Vaporware crowd that exists on this forum.
What evidence?? This is just words.
Point proven.
lol. even when the game is released people like this will still call it vaporewarez.
<snip> Are you guys for real? OK, so assuming you're correct and you're too stupid to know what you really want (I could believe that) what makes you so sure that Tasos is the one who does know? Maybe it was actually Adolf Hitler who knew what you really wanted, before all those whiny mindless Allies got together and nerfed him. First, it is clear to anyone who has read anyone of Tasos' past interviews what the focus and direction Aventurine is going in for Darkfall's design. To make a long story short, and keep it real simple for you, Sandox (Huge Persistent World in this case) MMORPG with a heavy PvP oriented environment. And so, in answer to your question, Tasos would most likely be one of many in Aventurine to know what "we" (and I mean "we" as in Aventurine's intended target audience of PvP oriented gamers). Secondy, as to Adolf Hitler as a reference is a weak analogy. During those times Adolf came into power at a time when the Jewish community was the German people's scapegoat for their economic woes. Hitler saw that as an opportunity to come into power using his hate rhetoric as a platform to become elected (so in a sense, he knew what the German people wanted at the time... this is just historic fact.)
<snip> Please don't post things you have no clue about. If you're going to talk about the dark past of my country, get your facts straight first.
Edit: No, I'm not going to start a debate about this, since it doesn't belong here, but if you're going to start pulling analogies and "facts" out of your hat, then at least make them right.
Blame Greek_Matt, he threw Hitler into the foray with his initial analogy. I do agree with you that this topic belongs in another place far from here, but just to set the record straight, I in no way meant any disrespect to the German people, and was only demonstrating that Hitler was an opportunist that was at the right place and time for him to come in power. That is all I meant, so please don't take out of context what I wrote in rebutal to Greek_Matt's initial Hitler comment.
Are you guys for real? OK, so assuming you're correct and you're too stupid to know what you really want (I could believe that) what makes you so sure that Tasos is the one who does know? Maybe it was actually Adolf Hitler who knew what you really wanted, before all those whiny mindless Allies got together and nerfed him. Don't make the same mistake so many DF fans are making, assuming that because you like something then it's the more intelligent choice. Especially when you keep providing evidence to the contrary...
When you go into bakery, do you tell the baker to add more white flour into his rolls? Or you just buy the roll and if it is not tasty you will stop buying them? Are you so arrogant that you think that you know more about rolls than the baker? It would surely be much tastier to eat sandy rolls that crumbled because of too much flour in them.
This does not mean that there is only one correct way how to make tasty rolls and that Tasos' receipe is the correct one for everyone. Tasos just said that just because someone is here on the forums it does not mean that he is able to understand implications of design decisions. But it seems that it is much easier to use the newspeek, take crude translation of his speech done by non-native speaker, twist it out of context and state that everyone is Einstein with 50 years of game designing under his belt.
There is a big difference between Adolf Hitler and Tasos and I guess you could see it: Although Hitler had a vision, most of the Europeans were forced to live under this vision which was enforced by power. Noone is forcing you to buy the game. The parallel is completely off. "Your freedom stops where mine starts" and the like.
Unfortunately I really do not understand what was the last paragraph about so sorry for not commenting it.
Edit: the wording I picked for the Hitler part was too ambiguous
In one hand we have the fact that saying stupid junk like "Players don't know what they want, we do" sounds JUST like another company I'm familiar with (Ahhh....good old SOE, how you've softened the masochist in my heart). I mean, realistically, the needs and wants of the user have been in a constant, and quick, state of fluctuation. Due to the incredible speed at with which our latest generations have endured technological advance and world change, its only natural to expect that their minds are conditioned to adapt, reshape, and consume a thing faster than those before them. As a result, their wants and needs are to be expected to change as well. Being unwilling and unable to deal with that in the scope of an MMO is a pretty big death sentence these days...and is BASICALLY the only reason WoW still tops the charts. They adapt quickly, or more accurately, quicker than everyone else.
On the flip side of that, you also have to deal with the reality that many players are experiencing the initial stages of heavy burnout from the genre. Once in that stage, its hard to enjoy ANY element of ANY MMO. Furthermore, your average player is not nearly wise enough, or old enough, to realize all the possible rammifications present to each action behind any request they make. As an example, lets use SOE. Pretend you have a group of players that finds the skill system to complicated, and want it simpler like other MMO's have it. This change naturally removes the wild array of options and customization that was there before. It also removes the ability for you to identify with your character in a way that separates you from all other users, leaving you another clone among thousands. Your average player wouldn't have the foresight to realize this, and could not then be trusted to give a good insight to which changes you should make to your game.
All in all...there is simply way too much grey area on this matter for my liking. The easiest solution is to just shut up about it really...on both sides. The provider of entertainment NEEDS to give room for the player to aid in adapting his game, but the player also needs to realize that, in general, we're all pretty stupid when you consider the larger scope of things.
[EDIT] - "Because to and too are not the same thing. I'm wayyyyyy totally dumberest than those people I just generalized.
Are you guys for real? OK, so assuming you're correct and you're too stupid to know what you really want (I could believe that) what makes you so sure that Tasos is the one who does know? Maybe it was actually Adolf Hitler who knew what you really wanted, before all those whiny mindless Allies got together and nerfed him. Don't make the same mistake so many DF fans are making, assuming that because you like something then it's the more intelligent choice. Especially when you keep providing evidence to the contrary...
When you go into bakery, do you tell the baker to add more white flour into his rolls? Or you just buy the roll and if it is not tasty you will stop buying them? Are you so arrogant that you think that you know more about rolls than the baker? It would surely be much tastier to eat sandy rolls that crumbled because of too much flour in them.
This does not mean that there is only one correct way how to make tasty rolls and that Tasos' receipe is the correct one for everyone. Tasos just said that just because someone is here on the forums it does not mean that he is able to understand implications of design decisions. But it seems that it is much easier to use the newspeek, take crude translation of his speech done by non-native speaker, twist it out of context and state that everyone is Einstein with 50 years of game designing under his belt.
There is a big difference between Adolf Hitler and Tasos and I guess you could see it: Although Hitler had a vision, most of the Europeans were forced to live under this vision which was enforced by power. Noone is forcing you to buy the game. The parallel is completely off. "Your freedom stops where mine starts" and the like.
Unfortunately I really do not understand what was the last paragraph about so sorry for not commenting it.
Edit: the wording I picked for the Hitler part was too ambiguous
Then you've missed the whole point. Tasos' crispy, sweet roll is not for everyone. Tasos' crispy sweet roll is for lovers of crispy sweet roll(PvPers)... not for those who like their rolls soft, mushy and stale (i.e., carebear WoW players.)
I will however agree w/ you on one point you made in that things can be taken out of context, especially in regards to the open coffee, as that falls mostly under situations where words and meanings can thrown in a blender, and spitted back out to find themselves lost in translation.
Originally posted by hidden1 Then you've missed the whole point. Tasos' crispy, sweet roll is not for everyone. Tasos' crispy sweet roll is for lovers of crispy sweet roll(PvPers)... not for those who like their rolls soft, mushy and stale (i.e., carebear WoW players.)
I will however agree w/ you on one point you made in that things can be taken out of context, especially in regards to the open coffee, as that falls mostly under situations where words and meanings can thrown in a blender, and spitted back out to find themselves lost in translation.
Strawman argument, not having anything to do with Tasos speech or this thread, but I will add something.
Since it's announcement, the game was geared specifically on hardcore PvPers. It is clear that there is very limited number of games appealing to these and most of them are of low quality due to age or crappy work of developers. It is also clear that there is a marked, albeit niche, for such a game. Taking this into consideration it seems to me that making game for such people is a sound business decision. Risky, but can be worth it.
Originally posted by hidden1 Then you've missed the whole point. Tasos' crispy, sweet roll is not for everyone. Tasos' crispy sweet roll is for lovers of crispy sweet roll(PvPers)... not for those who like their rolls soft, mushy and stale (i.e., carebear WoW players.)
I will however agree w/ you on one point you made in that things can be taken out of context, especially in regards to the open coffee, as that falls mostly under situations where words and meanings can thrown in a blender, and spitted back out to find themselves lost in translation.
Strawman argument, not having anything to do with Tasos speech or this thread, but I will add something.
Since it's announcement, the game was geared specifically on hardcore PvPers. It is clear that there is very limited number of games appealing to these and most of them are of low quality due to age or crappy work of developers. It is also clear that there is a marked, albeit niche, for such a game. Taking this into consideration it seems to me that making game for such people is a sound business decision. Risky, but can be worth it.
I just love how you "subtely" omitted your previous post using "rolls" as an analogy. I was responding to that one... funny how my "Strawman" argument as you put it, seems cohesive with your argument. Do you realize your arguing against your own argument? Are we not making the same point here? Nice politcal move.
Originally posted by hidden1 I just love how you "subtely" omitted your previous post using "rolls" as an analogy. I was responding to that one... funny how my "Strawman" argument as you put it, seems cohesive with your argument. Do you realize your arguing against your own argument? Are we not making the same point here? Nice politcal move.
Because you have just erected strawman. You basically argue that everyone has to make mainstream games. I find this statement stupid and I have pointed out that catering niche may also be profitable. Could you please point out how I am arguing against my own argument, barring your use of "rolls" in completely different context?
Thanks for posting this over here at MMORPG.Com. I thought about it, but figure no evidence will ever quiet the Vaporware crowd that exists on this forum.
We're still kind of pissed/cheesed from the Dark and Light fallout.
Comments
Most of the PvE cry comes from what players commonly experience in MMOs. Getting gear is hard or takes lots of time, and when they see that it can be lost no one really likes what they just earned.
The only thing I really worry about darkfall is how much of the core features that were touted about are cut, and how dependent it is on player integrity. I really get the feeling that they missed the boat on how the majority of their players will act, and the game will crumble. I hope that when they do decide to change things it isn't a drastic change such as a previous mmos have done.
all the main ones are there plus ones that havent been mentioned. few thing slike pets and npcs hirlings are out andprestige calsses are maybe out ther enot 100% sure now if there going to add them in after release or not now.
i have a feeling some stuff will lack quality but hopefulyl it stuff that can be improived on like aniamtions meele sounds and what not all can be patched in
Every time I see something from them (coffee shop meeting to Greek convention) It looks and feels like i'm watching some cheap B rated movie.
I mean who really does meetings with the media and potential investors in a Expresso shop ?
Man I hope for his sake the game turns out good. Because if it don't he's gonna get it hard.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
In case you dont know what these meetings are all about:
Opencoffee.gr is an unofficial initiative by some of Greece's software developers to get people of the field together to talk, exchange views and opinions, share ideas and get to know each other.
Obviously not every software developer is familiar with MMOs, because software development does not start and end with game development. Many other specialists gather at these meetings to talk about all sorts of software things.
Tasos used a simple language to convey basic MMO concepts to an audience that might not be familiar with the genre.
He also has never hidden the fact that he believes software development in Greece is shadowed in obscurity and would like more people to get to know the field and get involved.
What he is not looking for is money, as many naive people have mentioned here: the game is ready to launch, so no more money is needed at this stage. He is, however, looking for potential partners located in Greece, and rightfully so.
This meeting was a 'gents club' meeting. They are not aiming at press publicity or anything else. We have been peeping into this meeting and thankfully they have allowed free access to anyone interested; we should be thankful they are proceeding like this and not turning it into a 'members only' club.
But with two weeks to go until an official launch, wouldn't his time be better spent with potential players. Maybe have a media demonstration where they can actually play the game?
This was all about scamming investors out of money. Why bring up WOW's 11.5M players and then mention darkfalls's 3M players (sic). This is the same thing they have done in the past with all their 'near beta' comments. They make it seem like they are close to launch, then try and get investors, then postpone the game again.
The ironic thing is that he is working with 'Norwegians'.... which is ... wait for it.... where Funcom is from. Another company that bragged about 'players' and beta applications before the game launched in order to secure 25M in loans.. only to launch a terrible game and watch their stock go from $55 to $3 in 6 months.
That is what I got from this and other translations.
============================
OfaLoaf:
...What's Iraq like?
Toimu:
IEDs, SAF, RPGs, & mortars. But only during breakfast, lunch, and dinner. The enemy is so poor, they have to keep day jobs
You are probably just
ing, and never bothered reading past the first couple of lines of my post (you wouldn't post that if you had in response to what I wrote),but I'll reply nevertheless:
These meetings take place in order to form business relations, amongst other things, between the software industry professionals in Greece; in other words, business opportunities are a big part of what these meetings aim at.
This meeting was not a promotional meeting for Darkfall.
You are probably just
ing, and never bothered reading past the first couple of lines of my post (you wouldn't post that if you had in response to what I wrote),but I'll reply nevertheless:
These meetings take place in order to form business relations, amongst other things, between the software industry professionals in Greece; in other words, business opportunities are a big part of what these meetings aim at.
This meeting was not a promotional meeting for Darkfall.
"Suppose you see a bird walking around in a farm yard. This bird has no label that says 'duck'. But the bird certainly looks like a duck. Also, he goes to the pond and you notice that he swims like a duck. Then he opens his beak and quacks like a duck. Well, by this time you have probably reached the conclusion that the bird is a duck, whether he's wearing a label or not."
Or maybe you haven't yet.
OK, let me rephrase that to be more clear; it was a business meeting, so investor opportunities were part of the agenda. So the other 3 guys that presented their projects could very well have this in mind as well.
As for Darkfall, I can't see how they would need investors at this point, seeing as they have already secured a publisher and are ready to launch.
OK, let me rephrase that to be more clear; it was a business meeting, so investor opportunities were part of the agenda. So the other 3 guys that presented their projects could very well have this in mind as well.
As for Darkfall, I can't see how they would need investors at this point, seeing as they have already secured a publisher and are ready to launch.
they liek to take everything out of context when they dont even have the proper info. its funny to be honest
Especially seeing as they themselves say they can't support 300k users at the moment. -.-
maybe game worlds are hosted by server clusters, multiple clusters. pretty sure this is how eve manages so very many.
30 worlds for 300k. 2.66 servers per cluster?
I think 20 game worlds, 4 servers per cluster is more realistic and is my prediction. how that fits with 300k I don't know, 15000 characters per world but only 10000 can log on at same time?
My blog:
It is evident the majority doesnt know what they want when you see tons of threads crying about the very changes they cries for. (Atleast from my experience on the WoW and WAR forums.)
And yes the honesty of the Darkfall devs is very refreshing.
Are you guys for real? OK, so assuming you're correct and you're too stupid to know what you really want (I could believe that) what makes you so sure that Tasos is the one who does know? Maybe it was actually Adolf Hitler who knew what you really wanted, before all those whiny mindless Allies got together and nerfed him.
Don't make the same mistake so many DF fans are making, assuming that because you like something then it's the more intelligent choice. Especially when you keep providing evidence to the contrary...
Originally posted by Natris
I believe that Tasos is 100% correct that players do not know what they want. Just look at the number of "PvE servers plz" posts here; most of the people simply does not have the mental capacity and patience to understand complicated mechanics and do not have the knowledge of previous games and concepts and their implication. Shaping game after those who whine on forums (which is what nearly every MMO company does nowadays) means that they are listening to vocal retards and no life teens. He might have clouded it into politically correct shit but he evidently prefers honesty, which is nowadays very rare.
Originally posted by strongaxe
It is evident the majority doesnt know what they want when you see tons of threads crying about the very changes they cries for. (Atleast from my experience on the WoW and WAR forums.)
And yes the honesty of the Darkfall devs is very refreshing.
Originally posted by Greek_Matt
Are you guys for real? OK, so assuming you're correct and you're too stupid to know what you really want (I could believe that) what makes you so sure that Tasos is the one who does know? Maybe it was actually Adolf Hitler who knew what you really wanted, before all those whiny mindless Allies got together and nerfed him.
First, it is clear to anyone who has read anyone of Tasos' past interviews what the focus and direction Aventurine is going in for Darkfall's design. To make a long story short, and keep it real simple for you, Sandox (Huge Persistent World in this case) MMORPG with a heavy PvP oriented environment. And so, in answer to your question, Tasos would most likely be one of many in Aventurine to know what "we" (and I mean "we" as in Aventurine's intended target audience of PvP oriented gamers). Secondy, as to Adolf Hitler as a reference is a weak analogy. During those times Adolf came into power at a time when the Jewish community was the German people's scapegoat for their economic woes. Hitler saw that as an opportunity to come into power using his hate rhetoric as a platform to become elected (so in a sense, he knew what the German people wanted at the time... this is just historic fact.)
Don't make the same mistake so many DF fans are making, assuming that because you like something then it's the more intelligent choice. Especially when you keep providing evidence to the contrary...
DF fans don't make a mistake in wanting to play a game that seem's to be what Aventurine is providing for them (at least on paper, and we'll see on 22nd as to that point... however I digress... ). This is just logical for a group of players who happen to like a certain style of play and logically play in an MMORPG suited to their needs and desires. And so wouldn't that be the "more intelligent choice." (as you put it) for that group to make? Why would someone/anyone choose to play something not suilted to their preferences? If you've actually bothered to read the above posts, you would have readily understood that the complaint is about people like you ruining games designed for certain niche groups due to the pressure of mass market appeal, at least that's how I interpret it strongaxe's initial post. Yes it's true that PvP'ers will for some reason be outnumbered by PvEers is quite self-evident as shewn in the past with games such as WoW and Warhammer (as Strongaxe points out above). However let us remember that a minority also should have some rights as to what they want out of a PvP game, and as such that most MMORPGs and big companies cave in to the wants, needs, and sometimes QQing of the mass public, we PvP'ers deserve a game made by developers who are obviously catering to our needs (namely the PvPers market). Our gripes are more against the carebears (i.e., mass market), or as Frederick Nietzsche often refered to "the Rabble" (which is a supperior analogy to your Adolf Hitler against Tasos).
With that said, we Darkfall hopefulls don't want "the Rabble" ruining a game that is designed for our niche market. Is that so wrong? I think not considering that so many big companies out there are planning more future carebear-rabble titles such as the often regurgitated mass market appeal "Name Brand" MMO's such as Star Wars TOR, Star Trek, Star Gate (and I'm sure the list goes on and on as the future rolls on... but I again digress...).
Basically, we just want the carebears (the rabble), to stay away from Darkfall as they have MANY choices out there for MMO's to choose from, where we PvPers do not. It's really that simple. Why even swarm in to games like Darkfall as a plague of locust to ruin yet another potentially fun MMO. If it doesn't cater to your needs then why not move on to the greener pastures of big company MMOs and leave this one be. There are plenty of games out there for you and not too many choices for PvPers.
What evidence?? This is just words.
I've noticed you pop up in a lot of DF threads w/ short negative comments, and don't seem to back them up w/ any substantial evidence, nor sound arguments. Just curious as to what your purpose and/or agenda is for doing this in Darkfall forums.
Edit: No, I'm not going to start a debate about this, since it doesn't belong here, but if you're going to start pulling analogies and "facts" out of your hat, then at least make them right.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
What evidence?? This is just words.
Point proven.
lol. even when the game is released people like this will still call it vaporewarez.
---sig---
Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
Edit: No, I'm not going to start a debate about this, since it doesn't belong here, but if you're going to start pulling analogies and "facts" out of your hat, then at least make them right.
Blame Greek_Matt, he threw Hitler into the foray with his initial analogy. I do agree with you that this topic belongs in another place far from here, but just to set the record straight, I in no way meant any disrespect to the German people, and was only demonstrating that Hitler was an opportunist that was at the right place and time for him to come in power. That is all I meant, so please don't take out of context what I wrote in rebutal to Greek_Matt's initial Hitler comment.
When you go into bakery, do you tell the baker to add more white flour into his rolls? Or you just buy the roll and if it is not tasty you will stop buying them? Are you so arrogant that you think that you know more about rolls than the baker? It would surely be much tastier to eat sandy rolls that crumbled because of too much flour in them.
This does not mean that there is only one correct way how to make tasty rolls and that Tasos' receipe is the correct one for everyone. Tasos just said that just because someone is here on the forums it does not mean that he is able to understand implications of design decisions. But it seems that it is much easier to use the newspeek, take crude translation of his speech done by non-native speaker, twist it out of context and state that everyone is Einstein with 50 years of game designing under his belt.
There is a big difference between Adolf Hitler and Tasos and I guess you could see it: Although Hitler had a vision, most of the Europeans were forced to live under this vision which was enforced by power. Noone is forcing you to buy the game. The parallel is completely off. "Your freedom stops where mine starts" and the like.
Unfortunately I really do not understand what was the last paragraph about so sorry for not commenting it.
Edit: the wording I picked for the Hitler part was too ambiguous
See now...I'm kind of neutral to this debate.
In one hand we have the fact that saying stupid junk like "Players don't know what they want, we do" sounds JUST like another company I'm familiar with (Ahhh....good old SOE, how you've softened the masochist in my heart). I mean, realistically, the needs and wants of the user have been in a constant, and quick, state of fluctuation. Due to the incredible speed at with which our latest generations have endured technological advance and world change, its only natural to expect that their minds are conditioned to adapt, reshape, and consume a thing faster than those before them. As a result, their wants and needs are to be expected to change as well. Being unwilling and unable to deal with that in the scope of an MMO is a pretty big death sentence these days...and is BASICALLY the only reason WoW still tops the charts. They adapt quickly, or more accurately, quicker than everyone else.
On the flip side of that, you also have to deal with the reality that many players are experiencing the initial stages of heavy burnout from the genre. Once in that stage, its hard to enjoy ANY element of ANY MMO. Furthermore, your average player is not nearly wise enough, or old enough, to realize all the possible rammifications present to each action behind any request they make. As an example, lets use SOE. Pretend you have a group of players that finds the skill system to complicated, and want it simpler like other MMO's have it. This change naturally removes the wild array of options and customization that was there before. It also removes the ability for you to identify with your character in a way that separates you from all other users, leaving you another clone among thousands. Your average player wouldn't have the foresight to realize this, and could not then be trusted to give a good insight to which changes you should make to your game.
All in all...there is simply way too much grey area on this matter for my liking. The easiest solution is to just shut up about it really...on both sides. The provider of entertainment NEEDS to give room for the player to aid in adapting his game, but the player also needs to realize that, in general, we're all pretty stupid when you consider the larger scope of things.
[EDIT] - "Because to and too are not the same thing. I'm wayyyyyy totally dumberest than those people I just generalized.
When you go into bakery, do you tell the baker to add more white flour into his rolls? Or you just buy the roll and if it is not tasty you will stop buying them? Are you so arrogant that you think that you know more about rolls than the baker? It would surely be much tastier to eat sandy rolls that crumbled because of too much flour in them.
This does not mean that there is only one correct way how to make tasty rolls and that Tasos' receipe is the correct one for everyone. Tasos just said that just because someone is here on the forums it does not mean that he is able to understand implications of design decisions. But it seems that it is much easier to use the newspeek, take crude translation of his speech done by non-native speaker, twist it out of context and state that everyone is Einstein with 50 years of game designing under his belt.
There is a big difference between Adolf Hitler and Tasos and I guess you could see it: Although Hitler had a vision, most of the Europeans were forced to live under this vision which was enforced by power. Noone is forcing you to buy the game. The parallel is completely off. "Your freedom stops where mine starts" and the like.
Unfortunately I really do not understand what was the last paragraph about so sorry for not commenting it.
Edit: the wording I picked for the Hitler part was too ambiguous
Then you've missed the whole point. Tasos' crispy, sweet roll is not for everyone. Tasos' crispy sweet roll is for lovers of crispy sweet roll(PvPers)... not for those who like their rolls soft, mushy and stale (i.e., carebear WoW players.)
I will however agree w/ you on one point you made in that things can be taken out of context, especially in regards to the open coffee, as that falls mostly under situations where words and meanings can thrown in a blender, and spitted back out to find themselves lost in translation.
Strawman argument, not having anything to do with Tasos speech or this thread, but I will add something.
Since it's announcement, the game was geared specifically on hardcore PvPers. It is clear that there is very limited number of games appealing to these and most of them are of low quality due to age or crappy work of developers. It is also clear that there is a marked, albeit niche, for such a game. Taking this into consideration it seems to me that making game for such people is a sound business decision. Risky, but can be worth it.
Strawman argument, not having anything to do with Tasos speech or this thread, but I will add something.
Since it's announcement, the game was geared specifically on hardcore PvPers. It is clear that there is very limited number of games appealing to these and most of them are of low quality due to age or crappy work of developers. It is also clear that there is a marked, albeit niche, for such a game. Taking this into consideration it seems to me that making game for such people is a sound business decision. Risky, but can be worth it.
I just love how you "subtely" omitted your previous post using "rolls" as an analogy. I was responding to that one... funny how my "Strawman" argument as you put it, seems cohesive with your argument. Do you realize your arguing against your own argument? Are we not making the same point here? Nice politcal move.
Because you have just erected strawman. You basically argue that everyone has to make mainstream games. I find this statement stupid and I have pointed out that catering niche may also be profitable. Could you please point out how I am arguing against my own argument, barring your use of "rolls" in completely different context?
We're still kind of pissed/cheesed from the Dark and Light fallout.