Maybe it's just semantics but when you use the term "item mall" I think of in game vendors selling gear, potions, mounts, pets, etc.
But when the term "microtransaction" is used then I see how it can fit into things such as extra characters slots, server transfers, name changes or having your characters profile posted on the official game site.
The first group many people are firmly against, as am I because of the effect it can have on the game economy, character balance and the overall desire to achieve anything in the game.
The second group is seen as more innocuous and has been around in many popular titles for quite a while. These things have very little to no impact on the actual game and do not give people with a lot of disposable income an advantage.
Buying extra character slots could be advantageous in a game where inventory space is very limited. But I haven't needed multiple mules since the Diablo 2 days.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Maybe it's just semantics but when you use the term "item mall" I think of in game vendors selling gear, potions, mounts, pets, etc. But when the term "microtransaction" is used then I see how it can fit into things such as extra characters slots, server transfers, name changes or having your characters profile posted on the official game site.
If that way of looking at it is common, expect to see companies abandon the term "item mall" in favor of "microtransactions", regardless of which type they use.
Maybe it's just semantics but when you use the term "item mall" I think of in game vendors selling gear, potions, mounts, pets, etc. But when the term "microtransaction" is used then I see how it can fit into things such as extra characters slots, server transfers, name changes or having your characters profile posted on the official game site.
If that way of looking at it is common, expect to see companies abandon the term "item mall" in favor of "microtransactions", regardless of which type they use.
It's just my perception, I don't know if it's common or not.
What you're saying is probably true though and so we'll all have to wait for reviews to tell us how it's being implemented.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
I am so appalled by the shallowness of MMORPG content, depth, complexity, sophistication, story, inter alia, that I am literally designing my own MMORPG world at the time of writing this.
My solution is a simple, albeit effective one:
Do not subscribe to item mall games.
I am a "problem-solver" type of person. This problem, for ME, is solved.
Originally posted by Quizzical Are you arguing only that fluff items should be obtainable from an item mall, and not something more substantial? I could accept that. I'd argue that making items obtainable from grinding is itself a game design flaw, without regard to whether they are obtainable in any other manner.
To your question, yep.. that's pretty much my viewpoint.
To clarify; I would not be happy about being able to buy items that require skill and/or beating a challenge in a Cash Shop, i.e. a sword that drops from a difficult 10-man raid boss or is obtained through a (content-driven) reputation grind that takes a long time to accumulate.
But fluff items, or those currently only obtainable through a repetitive and pointless grindfest .. I'd rather they dumped the grind element and made the available via Cash Shop.
I suppose it depends on what you value higher; a few quid of real money or a few hours of life lost to repetitive grinding; and that's a no-brainer for me.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Originally posted by Ilvaldyr But fluff items, or those currently only obtainable through a repetitive and pointless grindfest .. I'd rather they dumped the grind element and made the available via Cash Shop. I suppose it depends on what you value higher; a few quid of real money or a few hours of life lost to repetitive grinding; and that's a no-brainer for me.
Why don't you demand better games which do not require you to endure grindfests but are still satisfying? I can't see the sense in asking for games which are so unenjoyable or time consuming that you are willing to pay the devs more money in order to not play it.
Originally posted by Blodpls Why don't you demand better games which do not require you to endure grindfests but are still satisfying? I can't see the sense in asking for games which are so unenjoyable or time consuming that you are willing to pay the devs more money in order to not play it.
Having no grinds is (of course) better, but MMO's rely on them to keep the interest of the hardcore players who spend 50+ hours a week in-game. I hate grinds, but they have a place in MMOs.
Cash Shops give us casual 10-20 hours a week people more options without negatively affecting the playstyle of the hardcore.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Originally posted by Blodpls Why don't you demand better games which do not require you to endure grindfests but are still satisfying? I can't see the sense in asking for games which are so unenjoyable or time consuming that you are willing to pay the devs more money in order to not play it.
Having no grinds is (of course) better, but MMO's rely on them to keep the interest of the hardcore players who spend 50+ hours a week in-game. I hate grinds, but they have a place in MMOs.
Cash Shops give us casual 10-20 hours a week people more options without negatively affecting the playstyle of the hardcore.
Surely you mean without negatively affecting the playstyle of the hardcore & less affluent. There seems to be this assumption everywhere that the reason some players are casual is because they are out earning lots of money that they will then happily use to subsidise their MMO hobby.
If you aren't paying a subscription then the game developers have an obvious interest in getting people to use the shop & seem likely to deliberately introduce as many grinding opportunities as they can.
Why would even a hardcore player want to perform tedious repetetive tasks? Surely they would want to do what you find interesting, but a bit more often.
I don't think that cash shops offering the chance to swap 'Grinding for Cash' are really anyone's friend except the game developer. I would rather pay one subscription fee to enjoy a game in full than pay out lots of little increments to avoid the parts that I did not like.
Just my opinion though, if RMT suits you then fine.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Originally posted by LondonMagus Surely you mean without negatively affecting the playstyle of the hardcore & less affluent. There seems to be this assumption everywhere that the reason some players are casual is because they are out earning lots of money that they will then happily use to subsidise their MMO hobby. Nope, I meant what I said. If I'd wanted to make a generalisation about how hardcore people are jobless bums and casuals are the taxpaying elite, then I would have done so. The reason that I didn't make that generalisation is because I know it's wrong. If you aren't paying a subscription then the game developers have an obvious interest in getting people to use the shop & seem likely to deliberately introduce as many grinding opportunities as they can. I don't ascribe to conspiracy theories. 10 years ago it was: "Oh noes, subscription fees are a slippery slope, they'll keep increasing the prices and we'll soon be paying $100 a month subscription fee to play online games!" which turned out to be a baseless paranoia. Now we have (probably from the same people who were doomsaying the above) the attitude of "Oh noes, cash shops are a slippery slope, they'll keep making it necessary to buy stuff and we'll soon be paying $100 a month to play online games!" Nah, don't buy it. MMO's are a business and the aim of business is to make the most profit possible. You don't do that by having ridiculously high prices, because people won't pay them. You do it by providing an affordable and attractive product; you can only make as much money as your customers are willing to spend. Why would even a hardcore player want to perform tedious repetetive tasks? Surely they would want to do what you find interesting, but a bit more often. I honestly don't know; I can't speak to the motivations of other people but the simple and demonstrable truth is that some people just do. Some are just "completists" who like to feel that they have attained every "achievement", no matter how banal or time-comusing they may be. Maybe some of them just like to grind, who knows? I don't think that cash shops offering the chance to swap 'Grinding for Cash' are really anyone's friend except the game developer. I would rather pay one subscription fee to enjoy a game in full than pay out lots of little increments to avoid the parts that I did not like. I'd dispute that; if WoW was funded by a Cash Shop rather than a subscription fee, I'd have spent absolutely nothing in the past 4 years beyond the game-box and the expansions. Just my opinion though, if RMT suits you then fine.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Originally posted by Quizzical Are you arguing only that fluff items should be obtainable from an item mall, and not something more substantial? I could accept that. I'd argue that making items obtainable from grinding is itself a game design flaw, without regard to whether they are obtainable in any other manner.
To your question, yep.. that's pretty much my viewpoint.
To clarify; I would not be happy about being able to buy items that require skill and/or beating a challenge in a Cash Shop, i.e. a sword that drops from a difficult 10-man raid boss or is obtained through a (content-driven) reputation grind that takes a long time to accumulate.
But fluff items, or those currently only obtainable through a repetitive and pointless grindfest .. I'd rather they dumped the grind element and made the available via Cash Shop.
I suppose it depends on what you value higher; a few quid of real money or a few hours of life lost to repetitive grinding; and that's a no-brainer for me.
I agree with completely. I, and I think most people, enjoy a sense of achievement. We enjoy earnings. We like beating that nasty almost impossible to kill boss and getting the uber sword of 1-hit kills.
We don't like grinding, endless repeating boring content just to get something we might like. Sorry there is no sense of achievement or "earning" something with that. It's just dull. Especially because we play these games for entertainment.
We tolerate grind in the real world (training, school...) because it is the only way to achieve something (technical expertise, good paying job...). But if I'm paying for entertainment I don't want to grind, mindlessly doing content, not fun.
Unfortunately you cannot get rid of grind because it is in part subjective. Repetetive is factual, monotonous is subjective.
Why play a game with grind. Well for one there aren't any options (again it's impossible to get rid) and two there are usually large parts we do like, most of it we like, just a few extremely irritating parts.
But again item malls being fluff doesnt' bother me. I pay 5 bucks for it now, or 50 bucks for it when the expansion comes. No big deal.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by LondonMagus Surely you mean without negatively affecting the playstyle of the hardcore & less affluent. There seems to be this assumption everywhere that the reason some players are casual is because they are out earning lots of money that they will then happily use to subsidise their MMO hobby. Nope, I meant what I said. If I'd wanted to make a generalisation about how hardcore people are jobless bums and casuals are the taxpaying elite, then I would have done so. The reason that I didn't make that generalisation is because I know it's wrong. If you aren't paying a subscription then the game developers have an obvious interest in getting people to use the shop & seem likely to deliberately introduce as many grinding opportunities as they can. I don't ascribe to conspiracy theories. 10 years ago it was: "Oh noes, subscription fees are a slippery slope, they'll keep increasing the prices and we'll soon be paying $100 a month subscription fee to play online games!" which turned out to be a baseless paranoia. Now we have (probably from the same people who were doomsaying the above) the attitude of "Oh noes, cash shops are a slippery slope, they'll keep making it necessary to buy stuff and we'll soon be paying $100 a month to play online games!" Nah, don't buy it. MMO's are a business and the aim of business is to make the most profit possible. You don't do that by having ridiculously high prices, because people won't pay them. You do it by providing an affordable and attractive product; you can only make as much money as your customers are willing to spend. Why would even a hardcore player want to perform tedious repetetive tasks? Surely they would want to do what you find interesting, but a bit more often. I honestly don't know; I can't speak to the motivations of other people but the simple and demonstrable truth is that some people just do. Some are just "completists" who like to feel that they have attained every "achievement", no matter how banal or time-comusing they may be. Maybe some of them just like to grind, who knows? I don't think that cash shops offering the chance to swap 'Grinding for Cash' are really anyone's friend except the game developer. I would rather pay one subscription fee to enjoy a game in full than pay out lots of little increments to avoid the parts that I did not like. I'd dispute that; if WoW was funded by a Cash Shop rather than a subscription fee, I'd have spent absolutely nothing in the past 4 years beyond the game-box and the expansions. Just my opinion though, if RMT suits you then fine.
Fair enough, I suppose we will just have to see what happens, but assuming that RMT games do ultimately replace subscriptions, I don't share your optimism about developer's motivations.
I know that you sometimes play several games at once because you mentioned it previously, but for people that usually only play one title at a time, personally I still think subscriptions give the best value.
2009 should be an interesting year.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
It seems as though the Runes of Magic team is implementing a way to convert Bierdine Tokens into Diamonds(the game's Cash Shop Currency).
Bierdine Tokens are rewards from doing Daily Quests.
I imagine that you'll be able to buy Diamonds from the Auction House using Bierdine Tokens, or something similar to that. Which of course would require that someone buy the Diamonds and then put them up in the AH first.
or maybe just a straight conversion, we don't know yet. but the end result is you buying Cash Shop items through Daily Quests as an alternative to just buying them with cash.
Yep people are right. There's no point in paying for mindless repetition.
Someone in this thread mentioned that "Item mall suporters are being played." Can I say "MMO players are being played"? MMO games nowadays are nothign but racing for gear, grinding to max level, doing achievements for which there is no real reward. Wtf is this? Am I asked to pay for 2-years worth of subscriptions and spend 40-hours perweek to get an item that has an Orange description name than a Purple?
MMO's only show that they have no imagination in their work whatsoever. For God sake - I enjoyed Final Fantasies more than I have enjoyed any of the current MMO's. Wheres the meaninngfull quest story lines? Wheres the cinematics when you have achieved something, Where is the feeling of adventure? Certainly theres none in MMO's.
MMO's only show that they have no imagination in their work whatsoever.
Try Atlantica Online. just try it, I dare you, and anyone else who is dumping on F2P games.
yeah it's a "crappy F2P Item Mall game", but it is a "crappy F2P Item Mall game" that is more unique, deep, imaginative, complex, polished, and overall fun (imo)than nearly every other MMORPG listed on the sidebar of the MMORPG forums except EVE Online and maybe Guild Wars.
in nearly every aspect, from Combat, to Crafting, to Guilds/Nations/City Control, to Economics.
it is absolutely nothing like any P2P MMORPG I've ever played before. and I've played most of the P2P ones.
and it is a shame that these so-called "Major" MMO Devs couldn't come up with something as well-done and unique as Atlantica, but some little Korean Company that I've never heard of managed to come up with a F2P game that outshines 90% of the so-called "AAA" MMORPGs in nearly every gameplay aspect.
now, to be real about it, Atlantica is the exception to the F2P rule. I'll admit that. Most F2P are utter crap with a Cash Shop, low-budget ripoffs hastly slapped together with the sole purpose of robbing you of your money through overpriced item mall crap(I'm looking at you, Perfect World).
But Atlantica is not that at all. It's actually a well-made, high-quality MMO with a decently balanced Item Mall that doesn't overpower your character, and unique game mechanics that you don't see in any other MMOs, P2P or otherwise.
while your claim that some people spen wayyy too much cash on it is true, most players dont spend more than $15 a month normally. I have met both crowds and i can say (unless the game is harsh) many are happy to play for free and not bother with the item mall. Those that do bother keep to a budget (usually 1 monthly fee's worth per month) and few go past that.
so while some players will spend huge amounts of cash on the site it would not counter the many that dont pay at all.
of course this is asuming its a free game and not some bullcrap SOE game where you pay a monthly fee AND have an item mall.
is it the future for MMO's...no. Investors want a steady return on their product (how often do MMO's shut down? how long has EQ been running for?) and monthly fees guarentee that. Itemmalls are way to random when it comes to returns.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I'm of the opinion that a game where only players buy and sell would be vastly more popular than a game where the dev creates items out of thin air to anyone who wants them at any time.
Admittedly, I have no facts to back up my claim. Only a gut feeling.
I think it is not a future either not an option but just the same old way how F2P going to survive, If a game designed so good then there is not much to add in the item mall.
If the game provides Item Mall only tells everyone thhat the game is defective badly and we need to create something to repair the deficiency but you need to pay for the repair. And then, the game is forever defective.
In addition, if I am going to pay to get items then I'd play online gambling. What company wants to turn themselves in a online gambling image?
What these games forgot is that the true appeal of an MMO isn't combat. Frankly, MMOs don't do combat well, and probably never will, compared to their singleplayer or peer-to-peer multiplayer counterparts.
The true strength of the MMO are the things you can do between the combats or instead of the combat: things like shopping, crafting, roleplaying, or entertaining. The problem is that these things are disappearing--fast--from our games, and I suspect it is because robust in-game systems like these run counter to the purposes behind the online mall.
Games that have item malls don't want players to be able to make and sell their own fluff items in the bazaar. They want the players to buy their fluff via credit card instead from the item mall. Games that have item malls don't want people to get everything they want from a self-contained world. They want players to spend their time between quests shopping on the secure transaction screen on the website rather than do anything in the game.
In short, the reason item malls are bad, in my opinion, is that they necessitate design choices that take the immersiveness, the non-combat options, the economic functions, and roleplay options out of the games. And since I play MMOs for all the little details like crafting, entertaining, and "fluff," all it means for me is a less satisfying experience overall.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The true strength of the MMO are the things you can do between the combats or instead of the combat: things like shopping, crafting, roleplaying, or entertaining. The problem is that these things are disappearing--fast--from our games, and I suspect it is because robust in-game systems like these run counter to the purposes behind the online mall. Games that have item malls don't want players to be able to make and sell their own fluff items in the bazaar. They want the players to buy their fluff via credit card instead from the item mall. Games that have item malls don't want people to get everything they want from a self-contained world. They want players to spend their time between quests shopping on the secure transaction screen on the website rather than do anything in the game. In short, the reason item malls are bad, in my opinion, is that they necessitate design choices that take the immersiveness, the non-combat options, the economic functions, and roleplay options out of the games. And since I play MMOs for all the little details like crafting, entertaining, and "fluff," all it means for me is a less satisfying experience overall.
I've experienced nothing of the sort while playing Atlantica. once again, the exception to the rule, I guess.
damn near everything in the game is craftable "fluff" included, the crafting system is unique, and there are thousands of crafting ingredients. the Game Economy is real and 100% player driven(similar to EVE, but without the NPC feeder items), virtually everything sold in the Market is produced by players.
and the community-building features in Atlantica are the best in any MMO period, P2P or otherwise. the Mentor/Apprentice system, gift-giving system, Long-Distance Parties, Guild/Nation System, City Control, Artisan Craft Teaching, etc.
as faulty as Item Malls are, and can be, I think that NDoors actually got this right with Atlantica. and other F2P games need to take notes.
Comments
Maybe it's just semantics but when you use the term "item mall" I think of in game vendors selling gear, potions, mounts, pets, etc.
But when the term "microtransaction" is used then I see how it can fit into things such as extra characters slots, server transfers, name changes or having your characters profile posted on the official game site.
The first group many people are firmly against, as am I because of the effect it can have on the game economy, character balance and the overall desire to achieve anything in the game.
The second group is seen as more innocuous and has been around in many popular titles for quite a while. These things have very little to no impact on the actual game and do not give people with a lot of disposable income an advantage.
Buying extra character slots could be advantageous in a game where inventory space is very limited. But I haven't needed multiple mules since the Diablo 2 days.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
If that way of looking at it is common, expect to see companies abandon the term "item mall" in favor of "microtransactions", regardless of which type they use.
If that way of looking at it is common, expect to see companies abandon the term "item mall" in favor of "microtransactions", regardless of which type they use.
It's just my perception, I don't know if it's common or not.
What you're saying is probably true though and so we'll all have to wait for reviews to tell us how it's being implemented.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I am so appalled by the shallowness of MMORPG content, depth, complexity, sophistication, story, inter alia, that I am literally designing my own MMORPG world at the time of writing this.
My solution is a simple, albeit effective one:
Do not subscribe to item mall games.
I am a "problem-solver" type of person. This problem, for ME, is solved.
in the fact, the mmorpg market keeps attracting a lots of players.
i just hope it will become better and better
To your question, yep.. that's pretty much my viewpoint.
To clarify; I would not be happy about being able to buy items that require skill and/or beating a challenge in a Cash Shop, i.e. a sword that drops from a difficult 10-man raid boss or is obtained through a (content-driven) reputation grind that takes a long time to accumulate.
But fluff items, or those currently only obtainable through a repetitive and pointless grindfest .. I'd rather they dumped the grind element and made the available via Cash Shop.
I suppose it depends on what you value higher; a few quid of real money or a few hours of life lost to repetitive grinding; and that's a no-brainer for me.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Why don't you demand better games which do not require you to endure grindfests but are still satisfying? I can't see the sense in asking for games which are so unenjoyable or time consuming that you are willing to pay the devs more money in order to not play it.
Having no grinds is (of course) better, but MMO's rely on them to keep the interest of the hardcore players who spend 50+ hours a week in-game. I hate grinds, but they have a place in MMOs.
Cash Shops give us casual 10-20 hours a week people more options without negatively affecting the playstyle of the hardcore.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Having no grinds is (of course) better, but MMO's rely on them to keep the interest of the hardcore players who spend 50+ hours a week in-game. I hate grinds, but they have a place in MMOs.
Cash Shops give us casual 10-20 hours a week people more options without negatively affecting the playstyle of the hardcore.
Surely you mean without negatively affecting the playstyle of the hardcore & less affluent. There seems to be this assumption everywhere that the reason some players are casual is because they are out earning lots of money that they will then happily use to subsidise their MMO hobby.
If you aren't paying a subscription then the game developers have an obvious interest in getting people to use the shop & seem likely to deliberately introduce as many grinding opportunities as they can.
Why would even a hardcore player want to perform tedious repetetive tasks? Surely they would want to do what you find interesting, but a bit more often.
I don't think that cash shops offering the chance to swap 'Grinding for Cash' are really anyone's friend except the game developer. I would rather pay one subscription fee to enjoy a game in full than pay out lots of little increments to avoid the parts that I did not like.
Just my opinion though, if RMT suits you then fine.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Take the Hecatomb? TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
To your question, yep.. that's pretty much my viewpoint.
To clarify; I would not be happy about being able to buy items that require skill and/or beating a challenge in a Cash Shop, i.e. a sword that drops from a difficult 10-man raid boss or is obtained through a (content-driven) reputation grind that takes a long time to accumulate.
But fluff items, or those currently only obtainable through a repetitive and pointless grindfest .. I'd rather they dumped the grind element and made the available via Cash Shop.
I suppose it depends on what you value higher; a few quid of real money or a few hours of life lost to repetitive grinding; and that's a no-brainer for me.
I agree with completely. I, and I think most people, enjoy a sense of achievement. We enjoy earnings. We like beating that nasty almost impossible to kill boss and getting the uber sword of 1-hit kills.
We don't like grinding, endless repeating boring content just to get something we might like. Sorry there is no sense of achievement or "earning" something with that. It's just dull. Especially because we play these games for entertainment.
We tolerate grind in the real world (training, school...) because it is the only way to achieve something (technical expertise, good paying job...). But if I'm paying for entertainment I don't want to grind, mindlessly doing content, not fun.
Unfortunately you cannot get rid of grind because it is in part subjective. Repetetive is factual, monotonous is subjective.
Why play a game with grind. Well for one there aren't any options (again it's impossible to get rid) and two there are usually large parts we do like, most of it we like, just a few extremely irritating parts.
But again item malls being fluff doesnt' bother me. I pay 5 bucks for it now, or 50 bucks for it when the expansion comes. No big deal.
Venge Sunsoar
Fair enough, I suppose we will just have to see what happens, but assuming that RMT games do ultimately replace subscriptions, I don't share your optimism about developer's motivations.
I know that you sometimes play several games at once because you mentioned it previously, but for people that usually only play one title at a time, personally I still think subscriptions give the best value.
2009 should be an interesting year.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Take the Hecatomb? TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
just a random thought.
It seems as though the Runes of Magic team is implementing a way to convert Bierdine Tokens into Diamonds(the game's Cash Shop Currency).
Bierdine Tokens are rewards from doing Daily Quests.
I imagine that you'll be able to buy Diamonds from the Auction House using Bierdine Tokens, or something similar to that. Which of course would require that someone buy the Diamonds and then put them up in the AH first.
or maybe just a straight conversion, we don't know yet. but the end result is you buying Cash Shop items through Daily Quests as an alternative to just buying them with cash.
Yep people are right. There's no point in paying for mindless repetition.
Someone in this thread mentioned that "Item mall suporters are being played." Can I say "MMO players are being played"? MMO games nowadays are nothign but racing for gear, grinding to max level, doing achievements for which there is no real reward. Wtf is this? Am I asked to pay for 2-years worth of subscriptions and spend 40-hours perweek to get an item that has an Orange description name than a Purple?
MMO's only show that they have no imagination in their work whatsoever. For God sake - I enjoyed Final Fantasies more than I have enjoyed any of the current MMO's. Wheres the meaninngfull quest story lines? Wheres the cinematics when you have achieved something, Where is the feeling of adventure? Certainly theres none in MMO's.
Try Atlantica Online. just try it, I dare you, and anyone else who is dumping on F2P games.
yeah it's a "crappy F2P Item Mall game", but it is a "crappy F2P Item Mall game" that is more unique, deep, imaginative, complex, polished, and overall fun (imo)than nearly every other MMORPG listed on the sidebar of the MMORPG forums except EVE Online and maybe Guild Wars.
in nearly every aspect, from Combat, to Crafting, to Guilds/Nations/City Control, to Economics.
it is absolutely nothing like any P2P MMORPG I've ever played before. and I've played most of the P2P ones.
and it is a shame that these so-called "Major" MMO Devs couldn't come up with something as well-done and unique as Atlantica, but some little Korean Company that I've never heard of managed to come up with a F2P game that outshines 90% of the so-called "AAA" MMORPGs in nearly every gameplay aspect.
now, to be real about it, Atlantica is the exception to the F2P rule. I'll admit that. Most F2P are utter crap with a Cash Shop, low-budget ripoffs hastly slapped together with the sole purpose of robbing you of your money through overpriced item mall crap(I'm looking at you, Perfect World).
But Atlantica is not that at all. It's actually a well-made, high-quality MMO with a decently balanced Item Mall that doesn't overpower your character, and unique game mechanics that you don't see in any other MMOs, P2P or otherwise.
while your claim that some people spen wayyy too much cash on it is true, most players dont spend more than $15 a month normally. I have met both crowds and i can say (unless the game is harsh) many are happy to play for free and not bother with the item mall. Those that do bother keep to a budget (usually 1 monthly fee's worth per month) and few go past that.
so while some players will spend huge amounts of cash on the site it would not counter the many that dont pay at all.
of course this is asuming its a free game and not some bullcrap SOE game where you pay a monthly fee AND have an item mall.
is it the future for MMO's...no. Investors want a steady return on their product (how often do MMO's shut down? how long has EQ been running for?) and monthly fees guarentee that. Itemmalls are way to random when it comes to returns.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I'm of the opinion that a game where only players buy and sell would be vastly more popular than a game where the dev creates items out of thin air to anyone who wants them at any time.
Admittedly, I have no facts to back up my claim. Only a gut feeling.
I think it is not a future either not an option but just the same old way how F2P going to survive, If a game designed so good then there is not much to add in the item mall.
If the game provides Item Mall only tells everyone thhat the game is defective badly and we need to create something to repair the deficiency but you need to pay for the repair. And then, the game is forever defective.
In addition, if I am going to pay to get items then I'd play online gambling. What company wants to turn themselves in a online gambling image?
What these games forgot is that the true appeal of an MMO isn't combat. Frankly, MMOs don't do combat well, and probably never will, compared to their singleplayer or peer-to-peer multiplayer counterparts.
The true strength of the MMO are the things you can do between the combats or instead of the combat: things like shopping, crafting, roleplaying, or entertaining. The problem is that these things are disappearing--fast--from our games, and I suspect it is because robust in-game systems like these run counter to the purposes behind the online mall.
Games that have item malls don't want players to be able to make and sell their own fluff items in the bazaar. They want the players to buy their fluff via credit card instead from the item mall. Games that have item malls don't want people to get everything they want from a self-contained world. They want players to spend their time between quests shopping on the secure transaction screen on the website rather than do anything in the game.
In short, the reason item malls are bad, in my opinion, is that they necessitate design choices that take the immersiveness, the non-combat options, the economic functions, and roleplay options out of the games. And since I play MMOs for all the little details like crafting, entertaining, and "fluff," all it means for me is a less satisfying experience overall.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I've experienced nothing of the sort while playing Atlantica. once again, the exception to the rule, I guess.
damn near everything in the game is craftable "fluff" included, the crafting system is unique, and there are thousands of crafting ingredients. the Game Economy is real and 100% player driven(similar to EVE, but without the NPC feeder items), virtually everything sold in the Market is produced by players.
and the community-building features in Atlantica are the best in any MMO period, P2P or otherwise. the Mentor/Apprentice system, gift-giving system, Long-Distance Parties, Guild/Nation System, City Control, Artisan Craft Teaching, etc.
as faulty as Item Malls are, and can be, I think that NDoors actually got this right with Atlantica. and other F2P games need to take notes.