yes we can blame the suits for months of bad bad pr decisions,
to the point i will not pay 15 a month then 29 99 for a buggy expansion too while they choose to the ignore the bugs in core ground game for favor of fixing expansion newest related bugs
also due to miss management and Suits decisions here ,i will not touch eq 2 period
may be a different developement team and "oh they listened to us so well in beta" but the deveolpers also listened to beta swg folks and we knew what happened their on released and still bugs from beta went live and still in the game .......
I think its not just SOE's fault, I place some of the blame on the some of the players as well.
Reason being is;
1. Having high expectations for the game. When I first heard about SWG in development, I was like "They better have this, this, this, this, and this." When I got to play it, they had the title and names of the planets/cities.
2. Anal Retentive. This was a really common attitude with other players who dealt with anything to do with crafting. They craft or mine their items and sell them for an extreme amount of credits that would take an average player a few hours to a couple of days just to get a decent weapon. That mindset flows from the crafter to the noobs and when the noob progresses to whatver occupation, he/she is stingy most of the time, and (on very few occasions) they are very giving.
So SOME of the blame goes to SOME of the players. I meet some really kewl people when I played for those few months and I also met a lot of jerk-offs. The combination of both really killed the game, more so of SOE's constant disreguard to the feedback the players were giving.
Another thing that burns me about SWG is that when the intial list of things that were going to be available at first launch was posted, everything that was in JTL was in it, then they decided to make a new expansion for more money. Perhaps they did it because they wanted to get the worlds debugged first, but if that is the case, then JTL needs to be held off until they actually DEBUG THE BASE GAME.
First of all, I believe the phrase alleged failure was used.
Here is the exact post, from page 1, in the very first post, we are both talking about:
"""Originally posted by aeric67
A lot of people blame SOE for the alleged failure of SWG, but can we really fault them for that particular game? """
Perhaps we should ask Aeric67 to be more specific. Does he think SWG is a success or failure? Which one? Aeric67 do you think SWG is a failure or success? Which one?
So, by ramming your "prove this, prove that" comments down that guys throat do nothing but make you look..well...I'll leave that alone.
Your response here is about my quote which was directed at starman, NOT at Aeric67. Starman is the one who said:
""" I don't gauge a games success by its number of subscribers"""
In that case, it is his personal opinion that the number of players in a game means nothing. If he can say number of players means nothing, then equal weight can be given to the 200,000+ other gamers who day number of players in a game DO mean something.
Second, how about facts proving SWG is, in fact, a success? Are they a success because SOE claims they have 200k+ subscribers? SOE is well know for using extreme exageration in just about every word they publish. Are they a success because you read some article in a magazine or a website? Do you believe everything you read? If so, I just inherited the title to the land the Eifel Tower is on. Here take a look. I'll sell it to ya. Real cheap!!
For Pete's sake SOE probably made the game sucky so EQ2 would sell more... I mean the game still has bugs in it since BETA =P yeesh...
"love how they make an announcement saying open beta will be coming soon, then turn around and say it won't be here for a while.. its like poetry, only it sucks.. " -About Blizzard and their concept of 'soon'
You have this strange habit of assuming and putting words in people mouths in order to make your arguements justified. I didn't say SOE was lying. I simply said you shouldn't believe everything you read. Too steep for you to understand?
As far as your debate of my fact that I saw very few people; If you are trying to tell me that corellia was empty during peak ours on a saturday night because people were elsewhere, get a clue. Corellia is the hub of travel in that game. It was always packed with players during the first 6 months after release. I didn't say the 12 people I saw were the only people on the server. I'll try to put it in simpler terms. I logged on and visited all of the busiest cities in the game and only saw 12 people in about 2 hours and 45 min. Had I done that 1 year ago, chances are, I would have seen about 2-3 hundred people, if not more. This fact could be an indicator that SWG is not doing as well as the MMORPG public is being led to believe.
Your comment about SWG's 200k+ subscribers being published here and there, this place and that place means nothing. They may have had 200k+ at one time. If that number has dropped down to 175k, 150k, 100k, 75k or even 25k, do you really think you will hear about it? Do you think SOE or LA is going to jump on the phone and call NY Times to give them an update? Do you think you will read on the LA or SWG website (or any other for that matter), "SWG has dropped to 150k subscribers"? Please try to understand that just because they said that at one time doesn't mean it's true today.
I know you will twist my words around and add stuff that I didn't say in order to justify an arguement for yourself. I'll understand if you do because there is no justifiable arguement to what this post says. So, no hard feelings and I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Originally posted by threetwosix Xplor.. You have this strange habit of assuming and putting words in people mouths in order to make your arguements justified. I didn't say SOE was lying. I simply said you shouldn't believe everything you read. Too steep for you to understand? As far as your debate of my fact that I saw very few people; If you are trying to tell me that corellia was empty during peak ours on a saturday night because people were elsewhere, get a clue. Corellia is the hub of travel in that game. It was always packed with players during the first 6 months after release. I didn't say the 12 people I saw were the only people on the server. I'll try to put it in simpler terms. I logged on and visited all of the busiest cities in the game and only saw 12 people in about 2 hours and 45 min. Had I done that 1 year ago, chances are, I would have seen about 2-3 hundred people, if not more. This fact could be an indicator that SWG is not doing as well as the MMORPG public is being led to believe. Your comment about SWG's 200k+ subscribers being published here and there, this place and that place means nothing. They may have had 200k+ at one time. If that number has dropped down to 175k, 150k, 100k, 75k or even 25k, do you really think you will hear about it? Do you think SOE or LA is going to jump on the phone and call NY Times to give them an update? Do you think you will read on the LA or SWG website (or any other for that matter), "SWG has dropped to 150k subscribers"? Please try to understand that just because they said that at one time doesn't mean it's true today. I know you will twist my words around and add stuff that I didn't say in order to justify an arguement for yourself. I'll understand if you do because there is no justifiable arguement to what this post says. So, no hard feelings and I look forward to hearing from you soon. 326
Basically, what you did was to take a scientific sample of the player population in SWG. Considering that basically any sample you take will be somewhere around the average amount, the chances are 100% that they don't have 200k subscribers. Even if the sample that you took were the absolute lowest, that would mean that there are probably something like 50k subscribers, at the most, at the lowest point. And considering that this was during a peak time, the idea that it could be at the lowest point is highly doubtful.So yes, SWG probably has about 80k subscribers at the most right now.
You have this strange habit of assuming and putting words in people mouths in order to make your arguements justified. I didn't say SOE was lying. I simply said you shouldn't believe everything you read. Too steep for you to understand?
I will leave it to the lurkers to decide what to make of this.... you say "do not believe what Sony says". If you say do not believe what someone is saying then what does tha mean?!?.... you are saying they are lying.
As far as your debate of my fact that I saw very few people; If you are trying to tell me that corellia was empty during peak ours on a saturday night because people were elsewhere, get a clue. Corellia is the hub of travel in that game. It was always packed with players during the first 6 months after release. I didn't say the 12 people I saw were the only people on the server. I'll try to put it in simpler terms. I logged on and visited all of the busiest cities in the game and only saw 12 people in about 2 hours and 45 min. Had I done that 1 year ago, chances are, I would have seen about 2-3 hundred people, if not more. This fact could be an indicator that SWG is not doing as well as the MMORPG public is being led to believe.
Now re-read my response. There is no longer any use for NPC cities! There are PLAYER CITIES. Thus there is very little to no reason at all for players to now be in Coronet. Or any other NPC city. (Corellia is the planet not the city.) During the first months of release there were NO player cities at all. Thus all players had to go to NPC cities. The game has CHANGED. *rolleyes*
Your comment about SWG's 200k+ subscribers being published here and there, this place and that place means nothing. They may have had 200k+ at one time. If that number has dropped down to 175k, 150k, 100k, 75k or even 25k, do you really think you will hear about it? Do you think SOE or LA is going to jump on the phone and call NY Times to give them an update? Do you think you will read on the LA or SWG website (or any other for that matter), "SWG has dropped to 150k subscribers"? Please try to understand that just because they said that at one time doesn't mean it's true today.
This point of yours is refuted by the fact that the servers theirselves show how many players are online playing. Again, re-read all of my original response. When the bar graph is filled up, it means 12,000 players are online on that server. When it is half full, 6,000 players are online on that server. When it is 1/4 full, 3,000 players are online on that server, and so on. Since there are 20+ total servers.... there is absolutly zero chance SWG has sunk down to less than 80,000 total accounts LOL! The game itself SHOWS how many are playing. You are making things up - backed by nothing but your opinion. What I post is backed up by fact. Log into the game yourself right now and look at the bar graphs.
I know you will twist my words around and add stuff that I didn't say in order to justify an arguement for yourself. I'll understand if you do because there is no justifiable arguement to what this post says. So, no hard feelings and I look forward to hearing from you soon.
326
The FACT remains that SWG is STILL around. No matter how much you do not want to believe it.
That alone blows holes in the "allegations" that SWG has failed. The FACT remains the game itself shows how many players are online on each server. The FACT remains a brand new MMORPG needs 100,000 accounts inorder to be a hit. 50,000 accounts minimum to have a chance in heaven or hell of ever recoupoing all investment money. SWG has been out for 1 year and 3 months. It has made back the 25 million spent to make it. It is now starting to make a true profit. So even IF SWG ever sank down to 50,000 accounts, it will still be successful, still pulling in a profit. The game itself shows the 20+ servers and their server populations at 80,000 total players during non-peak hours. And 250,000 to 300,000 players during peak hours. Thus SWG easily has 200,000+ players.
Originally posted by aeric67 A lot of people blame SOE for the alleged failure of SWG, but can we really fault them for that particular game? My experience has been that LucasArts games have a record for being very hit and miss on their own, with or without Sony. There are some exceptions, like the Jedi Knight series and KOTOR, but that seems to be it out of the dozens of games they've released on all the platforms. Furthermore, it's been shown that many games based on existing intellectual property end up worse off than they would have been without that basis. It turns out being just another item that the developers have to balance in their juggling act to make the game fun. I say most games are better off without that limitation. Maybe the worst we can fault SOE on is not being insistent enough to say, "That wouldn't be fun, George, so we aren't putting it in." Then again, maybe SOE was in total agreement with LucasArts on SWG and so they are partly to blame. Or perhaps a compromise between the two is what failed in the game... Design by committee. Help me out here... I didn't put this in the SWG forum because it really isn't so much about SWG, but more about Sony and LucasArts.
...they banned people for unknowingly receiving duped money. Then people complained so they threatened to shut the zone down. But instead they warped people into space. IMO every MMO SOE has created is an unfun failure. The only reason they were successful to a degree was because they were "firsts." First 3D MMO, first FPS MMO, first Star Wars MMO...Just the SOE customer support has the capability to ruin a game. They totally ignore their customers and pursue an unattainable Vision (tm).
-Et ________________________________ "I hope you're dyslexic and not just lazy."
Originally posted by aeric67 A lot of people blame SOE for the alleged failure of SWG, but can we really fault them for that particular game?
YES, why cause we CAN! Was it, I dunno, but ever since beta I never went back. Why? Well there was a group aimming to create a GREAT city, but what happened? The devs released a beta game. At THAT point they lost my trust.
I want to add that I play a game called Jumpgate, the developers took back control of the in-game support after the initial publisher messed it up. These DEVELOPERS WORK FOR the game and THE PLAYERS. We ask for content and they work on it, unless it can't be done like planets blow up or something.
SWG is no worse than anything else on the market nor will it be "worse game ever"as some are led to beleive.
My reason's for saying this?:
1.Name one mmo on the market or in development that has no level grind.Its not possible for one reason if a mmo had no grind they would not make money. 2.Screw content,its only half the game.If a player cant bring their OWN imagination or ideas to it then its called a failure. 3.If a player has more than 8 hrs a day to play a game (wich some do)then id suggest they see an addiction counselor.Truth of the matter is if you play that long on ANY mmo your going to go through most of the content faster than most people. 4.Compared to launch date a year or so ago SWG has gotten better by leaps and bounds. 5.There are not many games that will allow you to learn any skill you want.SWG provides its players with this system to truly create unique skill sets.
I personally feel after playing UO,AO,SB,AC2,EvE,l2,CoH,horizons,DAOC,and a few others not worth mentioning that SWG is the frontrunner of the genre.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
If you dont like the rules or how the game mechanic system work, blame Lucas.
If you dont like lag or some computering issues about online, blame SoE.
If you dont like some other aspect of the programming, hard to say who to blame.
Facts: - SoE is there to make money. - LucasArt is there for FAME, glory and success, if you know Lucas a little, you know what I mean, his only concern about money is to make more stuff, he got all the money he can care for and all his ''expensions'' are genuinely oriented toward improving gaming. This is a SIMPLIFICATION and I am know many SoE employees are dedicated and some in LucasArt fast talk the old fool while all they want is money.
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
To answer the original post, yes, we can.
yes we can blame the suits for months of bad bad pr decisions,
to the point i will not pay 15 a month then 29 99 for a buggy expansion too while they choose to the ignore the bugs in core ground game for favor of fixing expansion newest related bugs
also due to miss management and Suits decisions here ,i will not touch eq 2 period
may be a different developement team and "oh they listened to us so well in beta" but the deveolpers also listened to beta swg folks and we knew what happened their on released and still bugs from beta went live and still in the game .......
I think its not just SOE's fault, I place some of the blame on the some of the players as well.
Reason being is;
1. Having high expectations for the game. When I first heard about SWG in development, I was like "They better have this, this, this, this, and this." When I got to play it, they had the title and names of the planets/cities.
2. Anal Retentive. This was a really common attitude with other players who dealt with anything to do with crafting. They craft or mine their items and sell them for an extreme amount of credits that would take an average player a few hours to a couple of days just to get a decent weapon. That mindset flows from the crafter to the noobs and when the noob progresses to whatver occupation, he/she is stingy most of the time, and (on very few occasions) they are very giving.
So SOME of the blame goes to SOME of the players. I meet some really kewl people when I played for those few months and I also met a lot of jerk-offs. The combination of both really killed the game, more so of SOE's constant disreguard to the feedback the players were giving.
Another thing that burns me about SWG is that when the intial list of things that were going to be available at first launch was posted, everything that was in JTL was in it, then they decided to make a new expansion for more money. Perhaps they did it because they wanted to get the worlds debugged first, but if that is the case, then JTL needs to be held off until they actually DEBUG THE BASE GAME.
Just my half penny.
"Rehab is for quitters."
"Rehab is for quitters."
"love how they make an announcement saying open beta will be coming soon, then turn around and say it won't be here for a while.. its like poetry, only it sucks.. " -About Blizzard and their concept of 'soon'
Realmreaver formally of EQ, SWG, FFXI and WoW.
Malis/Pirotess of PSO.
Some named of Diablo 1 and 2
Grendel Kinguard of GW.
If SOE's objective is to make sucky games, they are doing quite well. Props SOE!
Sony Online Extortion Co. Where gamers go to Pay.
_______________________________________________________________________
Waiting for WoW, will play until something with new gameplay arrives
"The philosophy of a corporate entity umbrellas all activities. Obviously, SOE has a flawed way of doing business."
-Crabby, MMORPG Boards
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
Xplor..
You have this strange habit of assuming and putting words in people mouths in order to make your arguements justified. I didn't say SOE was lying. I simply said you shouldn't believe everything you read. Too steep for you to understand?
As far as your debate of my fact that I saw very few people; If you are trying to tell me that corellia was empty during peak ours on a saturday night because people were elsewhere, get a clue. Corellia is the hub of travel in that game. It was always packed with players during the first 6 months after release. I didn't say the 12 people I saw were the only people on the server. I'll try to put it in simpler terms. I logged on and visited all of the busiest cities in the game and only saw 12 people in about 2 hours and 45 min. Had I done that 1 year ago, chances are, I would have seen about 2-3 hundred people, if not more. This fact could be an indicator that SWG is not doing as well as the MMORPG public is being led to believe.
Your comment about SWG's 200k+ subscribers being published here and there, this place and that place means nothing. They may have had 200k+ at one time. If that number has dropped down to 175k, 150k, 100k, 75k or even 25k, do you really think you will hear about it? Do you think SOE or LA is going to jump on the phone and call NY Times to give them an update? Do you think you will read on the LA or SWG website (or any other for that matter), "SWG has dropped to 150k subscribers"? Please try to understand that just because they said that at one time doesn't mean it's true today.
I know you will twist my words around and add stuff that I didn't say in order to justify an arguement for yourself. I'll understand if you do because there is no justifiable arguement to what this post says. So, no hard feelings and I look forward to hearing from you soon.
326
three2six
http://www.soundcloud.com/three2six
_______________________________________________________________________
Waiting for WoW, will play until something with new gameplay arrives
"The philosophy of a corporate entity umbrellas all activities. Obviously, SOE has a flawed way of doing business."
-Crabby, MMORPG Boards
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
The FACT remains that SWG is STILL around. No matter how much you do not want to believe it.
That alone blows holes in the "allegations" that SWG has failed. The FACT remains the game itself shows how many players are online on each server. The FACT remains a brand new MMORPG needs 100,000 accounts inorder to be a hit. 50,000 accounts minimum to have a chance in heaven or hell of ever recoupoing all investment money. SWG has been out for 1 year and 3 months. It has made back the 25 million spent to make it. It is now starting to make a true profit. So even IF SWG ever sank down to 50,000 accounts, it will still be successful, still pulling in a profit. The game itself shows the 20+ servers and their server populations at 80,000 total players during non-peak hours. And 250,000 to 300,000 players during peak hours. Thus SWG easily has 200,000+ players.
-Personal Website (A Work in progress):
http://www.geocities.com/xplororor/index.html
-AC, AC2, AO, EQ, SWG:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
-More SWG:
http://community.webshots.com/user/captain_sica_xol
-EverQuest II:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_eq2archives01
-EQ, Dungeon Siege, Diablo II, *UXO*:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
-EVE Online !!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01
-Et
________________________________
"I hope you're dyslexic and not just lazy."
I saw the phantom crapper twice, because I could not believe my eyes/ears the first time.
I blame lucas for all crap related to star wars, now and forever more.
YES, why cause we CAN! Was it, I dunno, but ever since beta I never went back. Why? Well there was a group aimming to create a GREAT city, but what happened? The devs released a beta game. At THAT point they lost my trust.
Mrxknown
Lifelong TRI Pilot
_________________
Lifelong TRI Pilot
Jumpgate Evolution
_________________
I want to add that I play a game called Jumpgate, the developers took back control of the in-game support after the initial publisher messed it up. These DEVELOPERS WORK FOR the game and THE PLAYERS. We ask for content and they work on it, unless it can't be done like planets blow up or something.
Go to http://www.jossh.com and http://www.netdevil.com and see what a great game and developer there is.
Mrxknown
Lifelong TRI Pilot
_________________
Lifelong TRI Pilot
Jumpgate Evolution
_________________
SWG is no worse than anything else on the market nor will it be "worse game ever"as some are led to beleive.
My reason's for saying this?:
1.Name one mmo on the market or in development that has no level grind.Its not possible for one reason if a mmo had no grind they would not make money.
2.Screw content,its only half the game.If a player cant bring their OWN imagination or ideas to it then its called a failure.
3.If a player has more than 8 hrs a day to play a game (wich some do)then id suggest they see an addiction counselor.Truth of the matter is if you play that long on ANY mmo your going to go through most of the content faster than most people.
4.Compared to launch date a year or so ago SWG has gotten better by leaps and bounds.
5.There are not many games that will allow you to learn any skill you want.SWG provides its players with this system to truly create unique skill sets.
I personally feel after playing UO,AO,SB,AC2,EvE,l2,CoH,horizons,DAOC,and a few others not worth mentioning that SWG is the frontrunner of the genre.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
It depend.
If you dont like the rules or how the game mechanic system work, blame Lucas.
If you dont like lag or some computering issues about online, blame SoE.
If you dont like some other aspect of the programming, hard to say who to blame.
Facts: - SoE is there to make money. - LucasArt is there for FAME, glory and success, if you know Lucas a little, you know what I mean, his only concern about money is to make more stuff, he got all the money he can care for and all his ''expensions'' are genuinely oriented toward improving gaming. This is a SIMPLIFICATION and I am know many SoE employees are dedicated and some in LucasArt fast talk the old fool while all they want is money.
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren