Fact 1: aibots are more efficient and thorough for testing specific server stability issues than human players.
Fact 2: AIBots do what they are programmed and intended to do because well that is what they are programmed and intended to do.
Fact 3: It's easy to create a AIBot simulation of 10k players. In fact, eluding to fact 2, it's much easier, more efficient, faster and more reliable data gathering to have AIbots than players.
Fact 4: AIBots are cheaper.
The only thing that human players have on AIbots is the ability to find unpredictable bugs and then explain them in a way the developers can reproduce and ultimately fix them. However, it's actually more efficient and cost effective to use a smaller group of players than a larger one.
Remember, the more players you have the more data you sift through and with a closed-beta it's more about squashing bugs than getting stress test/stability issues out of the way. Having 100 players making bug reports is alot of information and data to look through. Imagine 1000 or 10,000 or more. What about all the good information and data being buried with junk or poorly described data?
So, for all of you people who ignorantly bash AIBots, turning it into a joke, learn about programming and learn how using AI is both more efficient and cost effective than using unreliable, unpaid 'game testers' who most of the time are just interested playing and not testing.
Fact 1: aibots are more efficient and thorough for testing specific server stability issues than human players. Fact 2: AIBots do what they are programmed and intended to do because well that is what they are programmed and intended to do. Fact 3: It's easy to create a AIBot simulation of 10k players. In fact, eluding to fact 2, it's much easier, more efficient, faster and more reliable data gathering to have AIbots than players. Fact 4: AIBots are cheaper. The only thing that human players have on AIbots is the ability to find unpredictable bugs and then explain them in a way the developers can reproduce and ultimately fix them. However, it's actually more efficient and cost effective to use a smaller group of players than a larger one. Remember, the more players you have the more data you sift through and with a closed-beta it's more about squashing bugs than getting stress test/stability issues out of the way. Having 100 players making bug reports is alot of information and data to look through. Imagine 1000 or 10,000 or more. What about all the good information and data being buried with junk or poorly described data? So, for all of you people who ignorantly bash AIBots, turning it into a joke, learn about programming and learn how using AI is both more efficient and cost effective than using unreliable, unpaid 'game testers' who most of the time are just interested playing and not testing.
Fact: We will see when the game actually launches one day, when 10.000 players log into one single server (that I mean not one box, but one game world) and how the whole thing is going to collapse due to severe latency issues, network bandwith issues, ISP issues, etc, etc.
Or you telling me that they gonna put thousands of PC's with AIBots all over Europe and then hammering the game server simultaniously, simulating playing gamers? Yeah right!
The only thing that human players have on AIbots is the ability to find unpredictable bugs and then explain them in a way the developers can reproduce and ultimately fix them.
And that is precisely why most developers rely on human testers.
AI bots are fine to see if certain mechanics work after being programmed, but to really get a sense of what your client can and cannot handle, and where the real holes are, you need human players going out into the game world and kicking things around. You need that unpredictability for things like exploits and other things that AI bots simply can't find.
Sure, AI bots are cheap and efficient, but they're limited by the fact that they only do what they're told. They don't give developers a much fuller picture of the strengths and weaknesses of their game the way that human players can.
I guess I'm just slow.. But lets look at the facts via event lines: Nov. 10th.. next phase of beta. ( for a game that's been ready for at least a year) -- This was meant nothing. They were opening more servers for more testers. How is is the relevant now? If one server can hold 10k users.. and they opened more servers.. but have LESS than 10k users.. Why does this matter (it's not retorical. Would someone tell me why this matters?) Begining of Dec. . END of open beta. -- This NEVER happened There has yet to be an OPEN beta. It's a very very important thing for a company to have some sort of STRESS test for the servers. bots cannot accomplish this. Sometime in Dec... Release date -- Fine. The date was pushed to Jan. 22nd. But note: The game is READY for release on the 5th of Dec. Per Tasos. Dec. 25th.. ONE! beta key for one lucky forum user at mmorpg.ita. --For use with the PRESS BETA happening in EARLY january (like EARLY december's open beta??) EARLY january--Press Beta.. still not happening. The Press.. Gathers information to report to folks like you and me. Even with an NDA intact, a press beta wouldn't have ot adhere (or they wouldn't have to sign) a document saying they couldn't say they were in Beta. OPEN COFFEE -- Nothing happened here. Just an event to prove that Aventurine is a real company, and that Darkfall is a real game.
What gives? I dont' knwo how any one can honestly expect them to release the game on Jan 22nd, when they have yet to hit ANY date or timeframe posted...
Fact 1: aibots are more efficient and thorough for testing specific server stability issues than human players. Fact 2: AIBots do what they are programmed and intended to do because well that is what they are programmed and intended to do. Fact 3: It's easy to create a AIBot simulation of 10k players. In fact, eluding to fact 2, it's much easier, more efficient, faster and more reliable data gathering to have AIbots than players. Fact 4: AIBots are cheaper. The only thing that human players have on AIbots is the ability to find unpredictable bugs and then explain them in a way the developers can reproduce and ultimately fix them. However, it's actually more efficient and cost effective to use a smaller group of players than a larger one. Remember, the more players you have the more data you sift through and with a closed-beta it's more about squashing bugs than getting stress test/stability issues out of the way. Having 100 players making bug reports is alot of information and data to look through. Imagine 1000 or 10,000 or more. What about all the good information and data being buried with junk or poorly described data? So, for all of you people who ignorantly bash AIBots, turning it into a joke, learn about programming and learn how using AI is both more efficient and cost effective than using unreliable, unpaid 'game testers' who most of the time are just interested playing and not testing.
Fact: We will see when the game actually launches one day, when 10.000 players log into one single server (that I mean not one box, but one game world) and how the whole thing is going to collapse due to severe latency issues, network bandwith issues, ISP issues, etc, etc.
Or you telling me that they gonna put thousands of PC's with AIBots all over Europe and then hammering the game server simultaniously, simulating playing gamers? Yeah right!
Cheers
Well as we now know one of the reason for the delay is so they can stress test their servers with live players and because they wanted / needed more beta testing for player data it would seem the AI bots did not live up to the hype.
Fact 1: aibots are more efficient and thorough for testing specific server stability issues than human players. Fact 2: AIBots do what they are programmed and intended to do because well that is what they are programmed and intended to do. Fact 3: It's easy to create a AIBot simulation of 10k players. In fact, eluding to fact 2, it's much easier, more efficient, faster and more reliable data gathering to have AIbots than players. Fact 4: AIBots are cheaper.
You have to look no further than the AoC siege system and how AI bots were used to simulate sieges. They quickly realized hundreds of AI bots could not simulate the load of 90-100 human players.
It was ultimately a failed feature that took them sometime to somewhat correct.
That is the kind of problem companies run into when they don't properly test features and is something that will come up for Darkfall at some point.
look out! Darkfall will probably not launch the 22nd and people will still make excuses for them!
Damn so we will have another month of people complaining about a white border on a web site ...
You must be a part of the grey border order (not caped on purpose).
Acually I am a NON Border type, just thing its kinda retarded to have a post which is 40 pages long about a complaint about a white border on a website.
I agree with those that have stated it is not so much the game that isn't ready for launch as it is the logistics and business side of the launch. Hopefully this is the case, but all I care about is the U.S. server launch anyways.
look out! Darkfall will probably not launch the 22nd and people will still make excuses for them!
Damn so we will have another month of people complaining about a white border on a web site ...
You must be a part of the grey border order (not caped on purpose).
Acually I am a NON Border type, just thing its kinda retarded to have a post which is 40 pages long about a complaint about a white border on a website.
Sarcasm much...easy to spot ..look at your avatar ..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
look out! Darkfall will probably not launch the 22nd and people will still make excuses for them!
Damn so we will have another month of people complaining about a white border on a web site ...
You must be a part of the grey border order (not caped on purpose).
Acually I am a NON Border type, just thing its kinda retarded to have a post which is 40 pages long about a complaint about a white border on a website.
It flies over your head. We understand, now let it go. Do not ponder the white / gray border because its meaning is clearly beyond your grasp.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
look out! Darkfall will probably not launch the 22nd and people will still make excuses for them!
Damn so we will have another month of people complaining about a white border on a web site ...
You must be a part of the grey border order (not caped on purpose).
Acually I am a NON Border type, just thing its kinda retarded to have a post which is 40 pages long about a complaint about a white border on a website.
It flies over your head. We understand, now let it go. Do not ponder the white / gray border because its meaning is clearly beyond your grasp.
Personally I'm still seething with rage about the whole white border debacle and can't just let it go, one simple thing they always promised they would never do, how hard is it for them to just keep one promise to the community, if they can't even get the border right how can we expect them to get major things like the font or margins correct, they always said they would stick to their core border design principles no matter what happened and now I find after waiting 8 years for it they go and do a total U-turn on their community, Aventurine should be ashamed of the way they have treated us, what's next pop-ups?, absolutely despicable I'm trembling with hate, I need to go lie down and maybe scream and cry into my pillow a little.
Aventurine should be ashamed of the way they have treated us, what's next pop-ups?
Maybe they will have in-game advertisment to keep the game alive.?
No matter what, good luck to all the europeans players that's gona give this game a try, IF its launch... I would greatly appreciate any feedback. Thank you
Personally I'm still seething with rage about the whole white border debacle and can't just let it go, one simple thing they always promised they would never do, how hard is it for them to just keep one promise to the community, if they can't even get the border right how can we expect them to get major things like the font or margins correct, they always said they would stick to their core border design principles no matter what happened and now I find after waiting 8 years for it they go and do a total U-turn on their community, Aventurine should be ashamed of the way they have treated us, what's next pop-ups?, absolutely despicable I'm trembling with hate, I need to go lie down and maybe scream and cry into my pillow a little.
Please Almighty Prophet do not fret. We of the Order of the White Border will help in your time of anger. Just sit back and enjoy the glory of the White Border.
One would think after the DArk and Light and Mourning fiasscos people would get a clue. MMORPG history just keeps repeating over and over LOL. Another S*** sandwich of a game and people are waiting in line to hand them money.
One would think after the DArk and Light and Mourning fiasscos people would get a clue. MMORPG history just keeps repeating over and over LOL. Another S*** sandwich of a game and people are waiting in line to hand them money.
After reading about both of those games I don't think DF will be like them, mainly due to the way Advertine is handling everything. The waring sirens that went off for thoes two games were louder than DF. Maybe DF will be the sandbox equilvant to AoC? Who knows
One would think after the DArk and Light and Mourning fiasscos people would get a clue. MMORPG history just keeps repeating over and over LOL. Another S*** sandwich of a game and people are waiting in line to hand them money.
After reading about both of those games I don't think DF will be like them, mainly due to the way Advertine is handling everything. The waring sirens that went off for thoes two games were louder than DF. Maybe DF will be the sandbox equilvant to AoC? Who knows
No major publisher has yet to review the game. Big warning sign. tells me they hav eabsolutly noting they want the public to see.
No open beta unless you send them money first second warning sign
delay after delay after delay. I have noticed the poorer the game, the more incompetent teh people making the game the longer the development time
too good to be true- the more promises the Devs make the less likely any of them are true. Anytime Tasos is asked a question, his answer will be the one that pleases the most people. That is straight out of the Dark and Light and Mourning handbook.
pay before play- nuff said. That right there tells me they don't htink anyone would pay for the game after seeing it..
If you are very lucky the best you can expect is Quake 2 game wise with persistant characters. If you are unlucky they will keep stringing the fans along with grand promises and trying to scam development money off dumbass investors. Every time I see another delay my first thought is, "well they scooped up another 50 or 100K from some poor sucker of a investor"
Comments
I was waiting for the awesome rebuttal.
It appears that you are STILL waiting then.
Damn so we will have another month of people complaining about a white border on a web site ...
You must be a part of the grey border order (not caped on purpose).
-Almerel
Hello my old friend.
Fact 1: aibots are more efficient and thorough for testing specific server stability issues than human players.
Fact 2: AIBots do what they are programmed and intended to do because well that is what they are programmed and intended to do.
Fact 3: It's easy to create a AIBot simulation of 10k players. In fact, eluding to fact 2, it's much easier, more efficient, faster and more reliable data gathering to have AIbots than players.
Fact 4: AIBots are cheaper.
The only thing that human players have on AIbots is the ability to find unpredictable bugs and then explain them in a way the developers can reproduce and ultimately fix them. However, it's actually more efficient and cost effective to use a smaller group of players than a larger one.
Remember, the more players you have the more data you sift through and with a closed-beta it's more about squashing bugs than getting stress test/stability issues out of the way. Having 100 players making bug reports is alot of information and data to look through. Imagine 1000 or 10,000 or more. What about all the good information and data being buried with junk or poorly described data?
So, for all of you people who ignorantly bash AIBots, turning it into a joke, learn about programming and learn how using AI is both more efficient and cost effective than using unreliable, unpaid 'game testers' who most of the time are just interested playing and not testing.
splat
Fact: We will see when the game actually launches one day, when 10.000 players log into one single server (that I mean not one box, but one game world) and how the whole thing is going to collapse due to severe latency issues, network bandwith issues, ISP issues, etc, etc.
Or you telling me that they gonna put thousands of PC's with AIBots all over Europe and then hammering the game server simultaniously, simulating playing gamers? Yeah right!
Cheers
And that is precisely why most developers rely on human testers.
AI bots are fine to see if certain mechanics work after being programmed, but to really get a sense of what your client can and cannot handle, and where the real holes are, you need human players going out into the game world and kicking things around. You need that unpredictability for things like exploits and other things that AI bots simply can't find.
Sure, AI bots are cheap and efficient, but they're limited by the fact that they only do what they're told. They don't give developers a much fuller picture of the strengths and weaknesses of their game the way that human players can.
So..
Looks like I was right.. for once..
Currently playing Real Life..
http://i36.tinypic.com/2uyod3k.gif
For all your stalking needs..
http://www.plurk.com/Random_
Fact: We will see when the game actually launches one day, when 10.000 players log into one single server (that I mean not one box, but one game world) and how the whole thing is going to collapse due to severe latency issues, network bandwith issues, ISP issues, etc, etc.
Or you telling me that they gonna put thousands of PC's with AIBots all over Europe and then hammering the game server simultaniously, simulating playing gamers? Yeah right!
Cheers
Well as we now know one of the reason for the delay is so they can stress test their servers with live players and because they wanted / needed more beta testing for player data it would seem the AI bots did not live up to the hype.
Humm wrong again?
You have to look no further than the AoC siege system and how AI bots were used to simulate sieges. They quickly realized hundreds of AI bots could not simulate the load of 90-100 human players.
It was ultimately a failed feature that took them sometime to somewhat correct.
That is the kind of problem companies run into when they don't properly test features and is something that will come up for Darkfall at some point.
Ouch!
Interesting evidently Aventurine disagrees
Now I'm really confused!
Damn so we will have another month of people complaining about a white border on a web site ...
You must be a part of the grey border order (not caped on purpose).
Acually I am a NON Border type, just thing its kinda retarded to have a post which is 40 pages long about a complaint about a white border on a website.
I agree with those that have stated it is not so much the game that isn't ready for launch as it is the logistics and business side of the launch. Hopefully this is the case, but all I care about is the U.S. server launch anyways.
Damn so we will have another month of people complaining about a white border on a web site ...
You must be a part of the grey border order (not caped on purpose).
Acually I am a NON Border type, just thing its kinda retarded to have a post which is 40 pages long about a complaint about a white border on a website.
Sarcasm much...easy to spot ..look at your avatar ..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Aventurine = Epic Fail.
Tasos may be the front man for public relations, but it's the big boys telling him what to say etc.
Remember people, Tasos is a "Pawn". Don't blame him when this game crashes and burns.
-------oh... and aparently open beta is in 4 days time? hahahahaha. nuffsaid.
Damn so we will have another month of people complaining about a white border on a web site ...
You must be a part of the grey border order (not caped on purpose).
Acually I am a NON Border type, just thing its kinda retarded to have a post which is 40 pages long about a complaint about a white border on a website.
It flies over your head. We understand, now let it go. Do not ponder the white / gray border because its meaning is clearly beyond your grasp.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Damn so we will have another month of people complaining about a white border on a web site ...
You must be a part of the grey border order (not caped on purpose).
Acually I am a NON Border type, just thing its kinda retarded to have a post which is 40 pages long about a complaint about a white border on a website.
It flies over your head. We understand, now let it go. Do not ponder the white / gray border because its meaning is clearly beyond your grasp.
Personally I'm still seething with rage about the whole white border debacle and can't just let it go, one simple thing they always promised they would never do, how hard is it for them to just keep one promise to the community, if they can't even get the border right how can we expect them to get major things like the font or margins correct, they always said they would stick to their core border design principles no matter what happened and now I find after waiting 8 years for it they go and do a total U-turn on their community, Aventurine should be ashamed of the way they have treated us, what's next pop-ups?, absolutely despicable I'm trembling with hate, I need to go lie down and maybe scream and cry into my pillow a little.
Aventurine should be ashamed of the way they have treated us, what's next pop-ups?
Maybe they will have in-game advertisment to keep the game alive.?
No matter what, good luck to all the europeans players that's gona give this game a try, IF its launch... I would greatly appreciate any feedback. Thank you
RIP Orc Choppa
Personally I'm still seething with rage about the whole white border debacle and can't just let it go, one simple thing they always promised they would never do, how hard is it for them to just keep one promise to the community, if they can't even get the border right how can we expect them to get major things like the font or margins correct, they always said they would stick to their core border design principles no matter what happened and now I find after waiting 8 years for it they go and do a total U-turn on their community, Aventurine should be ashamed of the way they have treated us, what's next pop-ups?, absolutely despicable I'm trembling with hate, I need to go lie down and maybe scream and cry into my pillow a little.
Please Almighty Prophet do not fret. We of the Order of the White Border will help in your time of anger. Just sit back and enjoy the glory of the White Border.
-Almerel
Hello my old friend.
One would think after the DArk and Light and Mourning fiasscos people would get a clue. MMORPG history just keeps repeating over and over LOL. Another S*** sandwich of a game and people are waiting in line to hand them money.
I miss DAoC
After reading about both of those games I don't think DF will be like them, mainly due to the way Advertine is handling everything. The waring sirens that went off for thoes two games were louder than DF. Maybe DF will be the sandbox equilvant to AoC? Who knows
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
After reading about both of those games I don't think DF will be like them, mainly due to the way Advertine is handling everything. The waring sirens that went off for thoes two games were louder than DF. Maybe DF will be the sandbox equilvant to AoC? Who knows
No major publisher has yet to review the game. Big warning sign. tells me they hav eabsolutly noting they want the public to see.
No open beta unless you send them money first second warning sign
delay after delay after delay. I have noticed the poorer the game, the more incompetent teh people making the game the longer the development time
too good to be true- the more promises the Devs make the less likely any of them are true. Anytime Tasos is asked a question, his answer will be the one that pleases the most people. That is straight out of the Dark and Light and Mourning handbook.
pay before play- nuff said. That right there tells me they don't htink anyone would pay for the game after seeing it..
If you are very lucky the best you can expect is Quake 2 game wise with persistant characters. If you are unlucky they will keep stringing the fans along with grand promises and trying to scam development money off dumbass investors. Every time I see another delay my first thought is, "well they scooped up another 50 or 100K from some poor sucker of a investor"
I miss DAoC