Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
What did PotBS do wrong?
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
This game isnt really for everyone, it's mutch like EVE, you eather love it or hate it.
1. Having a class based system instead of a skills based system; balance was nonexistent right from the start. The game about pirates, left pirates, floundering with nothing meaningful to do once the nationals started getting their Sol’s, and privateers were nothing more than snares for NO's to pin down and rape pirates. This wasn’t helped by the fact that all the nationals’ buffs could stack and work with one another, while pirates with a much smaller available pool of skills couldn't. Once nationals started sailing combined fleets the pirates were supposed to just bend over and touch their toes letting the No's take them from behind.
2. The second leads on from the first, having an interesting endgame for nationals and sod all but chasing after crumbs for the pirates. Once all the pirates bailed, the game lost more than half its population and like rats the rest just followed fearing a sinking ship. Pirates still have no meaningful and rewarding endgame 12 months on, even though the devs stated during beta they had plans to improve and enhance the pirate endgame as it pertained to Port battles.
3. The population imbalance that was obvious from the start; that some testers tried to warn them would happen even when we were ignored.
4. The coding sucked hard, given the mediocre visuals; performance was very poor and could quickly become unplayable on a large number of systems. The same poor design and lack of forethought led to any number of exploits for flipping ports and exploiting port battles.
5. What started out as an involving and complex naval engagement was dumbed down and diluted due to the constant whining from the people mentioned at the start of number 6 and was reduced to no skill, ABC macro combat by the end of beta.
6. During beta, the devs were more interested in hearing praise from the fan boys jacking them off and buffing their egos while they happily ignored any and all constructive criticism from players who could see the game had serious flaws in its design.
The POTBS dev team really do deserve everything they have gained from their title, “cough”.
My Colour Is Vomit green, I puke on the tards with stupid colour sigs. My symbol is ,,!, O ,!,, My enemies are any prat with a colour sig, a meaningless personality test, or a pointless list of games and classes.
Regards Hexcaliber
I don't know when you quit, Hexcaliber, but it sounds like you left very early on. The things you're describing... they don't resemble the current state of PvP at all, except for the idea of PIrates NOT being the best choice for RvR. We've gone 'round and 'round about that on the official forums, though, and to be honest most Pirates' attitude is "If you want to win the map, re-roll a nat; we don't care about maps, we want OS PvP." Everything else was just... "lolwut?"
Correction: the pirates that are left don't care. I know a lot of ex-pirates who cared very deeply, and were highly upset when they found out that they were just the joker in ORvR, and not a viable player. They wanted to be pirates, and they wanted to MATTER. And when they found out they couldn't do both, most just left.
Linna
Correction: the pirates that are left don't care. I know a lot of ex-pirates who cared very deeply, and were highly upset when they found out that they were just the joker in ORvR, and not a viable player. They wanted to be pirates, and they wanted to MATTER. And when they found out they couldn't do both, most just left.
Linna
Oh well...? The game is the game, if some players went into it with pre-conceived notions that turned out not to be the case, not much anyone can do about that. If Rats WERE an RvR-relevant nation pre-launch and it changed, "Game Experience May Change During Online Play," etc., etc., etc., etc. I hope they enjoy WAR or whatever other games the went to. The other ones who didn't leave, but instead re-rolled to enjoy the part of the game they were looking for, are doing fine right now - as have the rats who look at Port Battles as little more than a source of lulz, MOVs and free Rated ships. As have the nats who decide to re-roll Rat to enjoy the lower-stress "ez-mode" PvP/Econ setup that Rats benefit from (which is what we get in exchange for not being "relevant" in RvR, as you know...).
Correction: the pirates that are left don't care. I know a lot of ex-pirates who cared very deeply, and were highly upset when they found out that they were just the joker in ORvR, and not a viable player. They wanted to be pirates, and they wanted to MATTER. And when they found out they couldn't do both, most just left.
Linna
Oh well...? The game is the game, if some players went into it with pre-conceived notions that turned out not to be the case, not much anyone can do about that. If Rats WERE an RvR-relevant nation pre-launch and it changed, "Game Experience May Change During Online Play," etc., etc., etc., etc. I hope they enjoy WAR or whatever other games the went to. The other ones who didn't leave, but instead re-rolled to enjoy the part of the game they were looking for, are doing fine right now - as have the rats who look at Port Battles as little more than a source of lulz, MOVs and free Rated ships. As have the nats who decide to re-roll Rat to enjoy the lower-stress "ez-mode" PvP/Econ setup that Rats benefit from (which is what we get in exchange for not being "relevant" in RvR, as you know...).
We who were in beta knew rats were irrelevant. We protested the fact. FLS said they'd do something about it in live. The big problem, however, was that insufficient warning was given to new players about how the RvR functioned, and that pirates were in this system not really meant to win the map. A lot of people bought the game and thought they could. They got quite despondent about it. When FLS announced a big pirate patch, they felt revitalised, and many who were about to quit renewed. And then the patch turned out to be not about RvR at all. So they quit. Don't underestimate the effect of this. Pirates were second largest after the brits, and always heavy. In a few months time, they were down to light. They lost a LOT of players over this.
Your argument about 'game experience may change' is irrelevant, as the problem is that it did NOT change, despite promises. FLS could have prevented a lot of grief and frustration by just coming straight out and explaining the role of pirates clearly in the character creation screen.
Linna
They went with SoE. Really, that's the only thing I can see from an outside perspective. I would have loved to give the game a shot, but I'll be damned if I'm playing anything that's been exposed to their withering touch.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Being an outsider I can see where you might think this, but the only part SOE played was to collect the monthly fee's and yes they managed to screw that up from time to time with their account system.
The game is and always was FLS's ballgame and was totally funded by FLS; SOE played NO part in designing or running it.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
Being an outsider I can see where you might think this, but the only part SOE played was to collect the monthly fee's and yes they managed to screw that up from time to time with their account system.
The game is and always was FLS's ballgame and was totally funded by FLS; SOE played NO part in designing or running it.
Saw a lot of people make comments about SOE.. which is kinda why I stopped wanting to be around the "haters" in another forum here.
I mean I am not happy with things SOE has done.. but it had nothing to do with potbs.
They could have gone with any other publisher.. I think that leaves... NCSoft.. or EA... which would have the ability and I'm not sure either of those have ever hosted an outside company?
Regardless... and the game would have had the same results.. all mentioning SOE does is derail attention for the obvious issues that screwed up the game.
Off the top of my head:
1) Port exploits .. even tho they claimed on my server spain didn't use it... they did because I saw it done. I was playing a Pirate so it really didn't affect me because I wasn't expecting to "win a map". Yet since I saw the exploit in use its easy to relate to the fact it was happening.
2) Circle of Doom. Open ocean easy to avoid... Was a bad design where in the English starting area you could create one in a nearby town the covered all the "newb" areas.. and then openly feed on them.
3) Developed as a full loot (basicly) pvp game that they tried to sell to the masses (aka many pve players). You either got for one market or the other... and you support/develop the game you advertised.
They ended up in the same boat as UO... pretty much (no pun intended).
There were way to many ways to exploit the game mechanics and force pvp on "the masses".
4) Crafting for the player economy. "Chains" to create your finished item were great.. setup your plots etc to make all your basics. Then realize you could have just looted them off NPC's in volume.. for free. Again back to design..
All of that was FLS and I'm sure I missed plenty...
Most of this didn't affect me as I don't care if someone puts me into pvp etc The crafting thing did after I had my shipyard setup.. until I realized how people were selling things cheaper and had a pirate friend become my main "parts supplier".
This game had enough issues and I'm sure with many seeing SOE on the box didn't help even tho they had nothing to do with the development..
You know what just dawned on me that's also irrelevant? This entire thread. PotBS right now is not PotBS in BETA, it's not PotBS in January of '08, nor February, nor yet even March of '08. Whatever "PotBS did wrong" back then is done and gone. Now they're doing new things, some of them right and some of them wrong, but on the whole more of the things they're doing now are enjoyable than not. So really, you can take all of your bitterness and anger toward the game and FLS over your experience with them and post all you want about it - it doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the game one bit, nor does it lessen the enjoyment of the many new players on trial accounts that I sail past and /tiphat or /wave to every day.
1. ship combat was a bit grindy (in my opinion)
2. the economics of the game just sucked (player run markets arent always a good idea, especially ones that rely on PvP)
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I think my replies to this post go well with my previous post about how the problems of PotBS now are not all the problems of PotBS then. It ain't perfect, but in my opinion no MMO is and in many regards PotBS is a lot better now than it was 3 months ago, or 6, or 9, or 12.
In what way? The basic poor design is still here it has only been tweaked somwhat to loom more digestible. POTBS naval travel and combat still resemble WoW with ships crossed with speedboats in a fishbowl. The thin layer of historic reality went out the window long time ago. The world is not interactive or explorable, meaning you can float around on a toy boat and shoot at other boats. Sid Meier's Pirates had that years ago and in that old game you could land wherever you wanted etc. Economy was a boring joke when the game launched and it is now only more simplified version of it.
Did I miss anything? And no, I do not consider dumbing down of the economy, fixing some graphic glitches and redisgning female avatars to make a huge change. And let us not even go into PvP aspect of red zones, no crying in red circle, lack of balance etc.
POTBS suffer from same basic problems it suffered a year ago, the secondary problems simply replace one set of issues with another set of issues. Then again it is not like the balance act was ever FLS' strongpoint. The game will survive on SOE station pass which is a great idea for SOE but unfortunate for restof the market as POTBS will more likely then not disuade anyone from trying historic themed MMO.
In what way? The basic poor design is still here it has only been tweaked somwhat to loom more digestible.
What part of "It ain't perfect" was unclear to you?
POTBS naval travel and combat still resemble WoW with ships crossed with speedboats in a fishbowl.
Travel and combat resemble WoW? I'm not even sure if you're serious with that, but I'll say that I strongly disagree just in case you meant that...
The thin layer of historic reality went out the window long time ago.
Devs have posted more than once that they're not producing a simulation but rather a romanticized (read: fantasy) version of the Age of Sail/Golden Age of Piracy theme. If you're looking for 100% realism, PotBS is the wrong tree to bark up.
The world is not interactive or explorable, meaning you can float around on a toy boat and shoot at other boats. Sid Meier's Pirates had that years ago and in that old game you could land wherever you wanted etc. Economy was a boring joke when the game launched and it is now only more simplified version of it.
What is or isn't boring is a matter of personal opinion. I find floating around on my toy boat and shooting at other players' boats thoroughly entertaining. I know a guy with 4 accounts that he pays for simply because he loves the econ side of the game and wanted 30 more lots (plus lot swaps). To each their own.
Did I miss anything? And no, I do not consider dumbing down of the economy, fixing some graphic glitches and redisgning female avatars to make a huge change. And let us not even go into PvP aspect of red zones, no crying in red circle, lack of balance etc.
You missed the entirely new AvCom system which most people seem to agree is better than the old (I'm not one of those people, but that's because I still suck at PvP with the new system... PvE is much faster now, though). PvP zones are fine, and with as many ways as there are to avoid PvP even inside of the PvP zones, no crying in the red circle. Balance isn't very far off, every game has Rock/Paper/Scissors. Truth be told, complaining about lack of balance in an MMO is like complaining about taxes. Except the MMO only costs you $15/mo.
If by lack of balance you're referring to server balance and how Brits and PIrates will always be the most highly populated nations, the reasons are obvious and the only fix would be to remove Britain and PIrate as playable nation choices. In the meantime, Spain and France continue to win maps despite having lower populations.
POTBS suffer from same basic problems it suffered a year ago, the secondary problems simply replace one set of issues with another set of issues.
The "basic problems" you've mentioned so far are only problems for some; other people enjoy those "problems" immensely. Those people are continuing to play and enjoy the game.
Then again it is not like the balance act was ever FLS' strongpoint. The game will survive on SOE station pass which is a great idea for SOE but unfortunate for restof the market as POTBS will more likely then not disuade anyone from trying historic themed MMO.
At any rate, your post is basically more of the same stuff from the first 19 pages that folks have been posting since last spring about why this game "failed" while disregarding the improvements and steps forward that the game has made in the last 3-4 months. (AvCom, Steam, Russia, finally beginning to address the economy, finally making enough progress with the long-awaited Skirmish system to speak openly about it which they're doing quite often via the forum, various devs' Twitter feeds and the IRC channel, finally beginning to address the fact that 90% of the towns and mission areas look exactly the same (Golden Lake is now completely re-skinned and the difference is huge... you might think it's unimportant, but it's called "polish" and it's VERY important), taking another subtle stab at enticing people to roll into weak nations from the beginning rather than expecting players to redistribute themselves for the sake of fair play).
Again: the problems of PotBS now are not all the problems of PotBS then.
You know what just dawned on me that's also irrelevant? This entire thread. PotBS right now is not PotBS in BETA, it's not PotBS in January of '08, nor February, nor yet even March of '08. Whatever "PotBS did wrong" back then is done and gone. Now they're doing new things, some of them right and some of them wrong, but on the whole more of the things they're doing now are enjoyable than not. So really, you can take all of your bitterness and anger toward the game and FLS over your experience with them and post all you want about it - it doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the game one bit, nor does it lessen the enjoyment of the many new players on trial accounts that I sail past and /tiphat or /wave to every day.
Good for you, but there are still people who are drawn to pirates (the nation) in what is afvertised as an RvR game, and there still is no warning saying 'if you roll a pirate, you will be irrelevant in RVR'. So please explain how that is a good thing.
Besides which, this is a discussion about what PotBS did wrong, so it's entirely relevant what warnings were given in beta and ignored, especially when they affect gameplay today.
Also, could you keep the personal attacks and innuendo out of it? You're getting a bit tiresome. My personal feelings have nothing to do with the fact that FLS DID mess up on multiple fronts, as just about everyone in this forum can attest.
Linna
Oh, did you feel attacked?
Anyway, Pirates - particularly Cutthroats are generally considered "ez-mode" and for good reason. Leveling in the game is fast and CT's give players a very good "sample" of how gameplay works. Some folks enjoy playing the pirate, not wanting to get into hardcore RvR. If any playstyle in PotBS is suited to the casual folks who only have a few hours a week to play with, it's the Cutthroat. I say better to have folks drawn to ez-mode and decide later they want the increased challenges of national RvR than draw them straight to the "hardcore" game and have them get intimidated out of the game altogether before they even understand it. I just recently rolled nats on Blackbeard with an eye toward getting into the RvR game now myself, but that's pretty off-topic so nevermind.
Yes, the thread is called "What did PotBS do wrong?" However, what anybody reading this thread sees is a bunch of people, MOST of whom played the first month or two and quit but yet somehow remain experts on the game months later, posting things that would be more suited to a thread called "Why did PotBS die?" The problem is, it's not dead yet. Quite the opposite, in fact.
I really enjoyed the game. I think it's a great setting for an MMO, ship combat is awesome, PvP is challenging and sucess was often received from good tactics as opposed to who has the better gear or having a higher level. The best way I can sum it up is potential. The game had it on many levels but hasn't realized it yet.
For example, the economy system had the chance to be complex and rewarding but if you look at the game now, players are selling the stuff without profit in order to compete with the other nations. Players can't find that rewarding for very long.
Also, I think many players were turned off my the Avatare system (when you're outside your ship) initially and didn't give the game much of a chance. The model annimation was mechanical and looked quite dated. The combat system was simplistic.
The good news is that a patch was released that addressed a lot of those issues but most people haven't gone back to check it out. To be honset, I couldn't get enough of my friends to even try to 14-day trial. they were content to play their current MMOs and I guess the subject matter didn't interest them.
In simple terms, I think PotBS is a love it or hate it game. You need to be open to the subject matter but to those who love the Age of Sail, it's a winner and getting improved on a daily basis.
I figured I would instill my 2 cents into this forum here.
I am a skeptic when it comes to new MMO's now I usally wait for several months to a year before i jump in too many have I gotten on release and been disappointed in due to bugs / underdevelopment finical crash and shutdowns.
Looking at this title here on MMORPG.com lead me to become a new player 3 weeks ago I tried the trial of this game and immeadtly fell in love with it the people are all helpful mature and theres a strong focus on working together across the entire nataion no matter which nation you select. I purchased the game within 5 days of the 14 Day trial which for me is impressive i didnt hit any limits i just seen how fun a simple MMO can be when everyone is helpfull and working together your never left out to go it alone unless you desire to be.
You can spend hours or minutes in the game and gain something from it which appeals to alot of players across the board you do not have to spend hours and hours to feel sucessful. (seconds if you play Pirate and just cap a new ship to sail)
I do see that the 5 Servers are hurting from a poor launch but whatever their current efforts are I can say for certian theres been a recent influx of new players on new accounts along with myself i dont feel like i landed into a matured game where everyone is maxed out as there seems to be plaenty of new players to learn the game with share experience and group.
The Newest Content patchs provide more PVE endgame for players not into the pvp is becomming more apparent but the end game is still a conquest game so if your a carebear you still can be one but you will not get the "Raid" feeling from this one. On the other hand your not going to loose anything by playing the conquest portion really a ship a couple fittings all easily replaced and your back at it. All your unique items stay with you when you die and auto transfer to a new ship.
Tonight among many is the start of a full summers worth of content updates as well they are fixing the economy to make it function more as a economy and not a guild only focus. including promoting growth on nations that are weaker in population (dubble xp etc if you join a low population nation) theres plenty to enjoy here i have read all the stuff that whent wrong but it appears insted of closing the doors they have fixed a major amount of their mistakes and continue to provide a healthly MMO for all to enjoy.
So if any of you that read this tried it at launch and mabe were dissapointed I think its worth a second look now with everything on its upswing again if not i /salute you and hope you enjoy which ever MMO you choose to occupy your time with. I personally see this game keeping me occupied well into the summer and beynd if the Devs keep up what i have seen in the last 3 weeks.
Just FYI they must have changed something since you last played as pirates are winning the map on Rackham now and are doing it well.
I, like many other people, got this game when it first came and ended up leaving it for most of the reasons stated above. However after my WAR account was closed I decided to give the 14 day returning trial a shot. I have since resubscribed as the game is a lot better now. I won't say it is flawless but it is a lot better then it was the last time I played it. One of the biggest things for me though is the community. I have not felt like a true member of a community in any mmo since I left SWG. Granted the community is small, but it is still a great one.
I would encourage anyone who is bashing the game and hasn't logged into the game for a long time to give the trial a shot. If you still don't like it then bash away. But as stated before you can't base your post off of the state of the game 3 months after launch.
Have they done away with speedboats, stealth sails, and magic spells?
Or is it still Mario Kart meets WOW?
Have they done away with speedboats, stealth sails, and magic spells?
Or is it still Mario Kart meets WOW?
Stealth is still in-game, but has been nerfed, boats can still be fit for speed (aka "failfitting") but speedboats aren't very effective at heavy PvP, they're pretty easy to beat to be honest. You can get ganked by a pack of 'em, but you can't be uber stealthed AND fast at the same time... which means, you can see them coming from 50 miles or more and avoid them altogether more often than not.
If by magic spells you mean things like Break Formation (zomg STUNS) then yeah, that stuff is still in-game... makes it a video game rather than a sailboat simulator, imo, but I can understand why some folks don't like that stuff; it does get a bit out of hand sometimes.
Again, yes they are with minor modifications. At this pace of "polishing" (I would call it adding basic elementas) it will take FLS a few years to get the game where it probably should have been at a launch. Little bits here and little bits there, it is the same game as it was at launch andi t quite frankly is poorly made and unblanced. You cannot polish waht it was never finished. Yes, my personal opinion that seems to conform with that made by the large number of players that tried it and left. Baiting people with molehills propagated as mountains really changes little.
However I have no intention of arguing with you ad infinitum on every point as it really is not worth my time. There are posters on these forums, like say Amazing Avery on AoC froum, who are often uncharitably labeled as Shills. I will admit you and your posts, including a huge amount of time used to drown out any critique, do remind me of that category.
I have little doubt that any post that isn't 101% supportive of POTBS will have a refute from Havohej.
Again, yes they are with minor modifications. At this pace of "polishing" (I would call it adding basic elementas) it will take FLS a few years to get the game where it probably should have been at a launch. Little bits here and little bits there, it is the same game as it was at launch andi t quite frankly is poorly made and unblanced. You cannot polish waht it was never finished. Yes, my personal opinion that seems to conform with that made by the large number of players that tried it and left. Baiting people with molehills propagated as mountains really changes little.
However I have no intention of arguing with you ad infinitum on every point as it really is not worth my time. There are posters on these forums, like say Amazing Avery on AoC froum, who are often uncharitably labeled as Shills. I will admit you and your posts, including a huge amount of time used to drown out any critique, do remind me of that category.
I have little doubt that any post that isn't 101% supportive of POTBS will have a refute from Havohej.
Well, his title on the forum is POTBS Correspondent, (like Avery) so it seems that yes, he might just be a "shill" for them.
Nothing wrong with that really, he likes the game, and wants to see it succeed.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Again, yes they are with minor modifications. At this pace of "polishing" (I would call it adding basic elementas) it will take FLS a few years to get the game where it probably should have been at a launch. Little bits here and little bits there, it is the same game as it was at launch andi t quite frankly is poorly made and unblanced. You cannot polish waht it was never finished. Yes, my personal opinion that seems to conform with that made by the large number of players that tried it and left. Baiting people with molehills propagated as mountains really changes little.
However I have no intention of arguing with you ad infinitum on every point as it really is not worth my time. There are posters on these forums, like say Amazing Avery on AoC froum, who are often uncharitably labeled as Shills. I will admit you and your posts, including a huge amount of time used to drown out any critique, do remind me of that category.
I have little doubt that any post that isn't 101% supportive of POTBS will have a refute from Havohej.
If you wish to have your opinions taken seriously, you shouldn't assume the support of the masses in your arguments or to know someone's motivations. From what I've read the opinions about this game are far from unanimous; especially from those who have played it recently. Last but not least, forecasting how long it will take FLS to accomplish anything in their game is yet another huge assumption.
Also, debating the definitions of "polish" vs. "basic functionality" is simply debating opinion and is a waste of time unless your goal is to troll.
I for one am looking forward to hearing fresh opinions of this game from players with more timely experience.