But what is catching up, really? Does it mean you have exactly the same options as the 'uber guy who started from beta', from economy and industry to PVP and all the things in between?
Or is it the ability to compete on a basically level playing field, with no great advantage or real disadvantage to any particular side?
If all you care about is total SP as 'catching up', well, then you might be in for a dissappointment. Also, if you think 'catching up' means you're as good as they are from the start-gate out, you're in for a dissappointment.
But if you think about it for a while, you'll see that the improvement curves are logarithmic, and that you can get to where the 'vets' are now, while they won't be improving as much or at all while you do. It takes a while, don't doubt that, but truth of the matter is that the final lvl 5's or even lvl4's in the high-tier skills aren't that important. Once you can use the module, the 5-10% increase in its effectiveness isn't what makes or breaks a combat situation most of the time.
However, yes, it does take time. Two-three months for options like T2-fitted battleship, six months or more for capital ships (but without a good corp to help you, setting up and running a capital isn't something you'll want to do anyways). For mining, you can be in a Hulk some 3-4 months training time from the skill tree.
What does all this come down to? Being in a T2 battleship is not the pwnbutton for PVP fights, and neither are the capitals. Every sort of ship is needed for a balanced fleet, from tacklers to jammers to logistics to DPS and finally, capitals if you intend to go POS-busting or fighting other caps. There's stuff to do for all the while you train your skills, if you aren't locked in the mindset of 'not a vet yet, can't compete'.
The biggest problem I have with this argument is that it is constantly touted out as the reason for newbies not to even think about joining or even trying out EVE, even if they might find the playstyle otherwise to their liking and think the idea intriguing. "Don't bother, the vets are all uber and just want to wtfbbqspawncamprape all newbies all the time, ever. And you won't ever catch up to them either since SP = uberness and someone with 30mil sp in industry will still wtfbbq you with just a glance when you're in a PVP ship."
It's as if there's a group of people who, for whatever reason, want to discourage other potential players from even trying out the game, and seeing if it is what they might like. Some of this must come from personal bad experiences, but it's starting to feel like there's more to it then just that. The constant antipathy from self-proclaimed 'vets' who vehemently argue that there's no equality in EVE, just a rigid hierarchy where the top dogs were there from the start sounds either self-serving excuse for not liking the game as much as they'd like, or as deliberate trolling.
Originally posted by Enkindu Restarting EvE as a noob is like playing on "hardcore" or "insanity" mode. It is is at times unimaginably hard, sometimes apparently impossible...
coming from a very experienced player, this part was the most discouraging of the post. How difficult would you think it would be for somebody who knows nothing of Eve, unlike somebody like yourself.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Originally posted by Enkindu Restarting EvE as a noob is like playing on "hardcore" or "insanity" mode. It is is at times unimaginably hard, sometimes apparently impossible...
coming from a very experienced player, this part was the most discouraging of the post. How difficult would you think it would be for somebody who knows nothing of Eve, unlike somebody like yourself.
Point taken, and my apologies. Keep in mind I was thinking (and acting) like a 4 year vet... except I was flying a noob ship with no money and no skills. In other words my brain was writing checks that my toon couldn't really cash
It is notable that even though I was trying stuff that most people would consider "highly inadvisable" (velator in 0.0 ftw) I was still putting money in the bank and having a blast. In Eve, if you can dream it you can do it.. or at least explode in an entertaining and spectacular fashion while you TRY to do it.
I was trying to get the point across that Eve will pretty much let you try anything.. I still find the game just exciting these days as I did when I fired up my first cruiser.
Give the game a shot, hopefully you love it as much as many of us do : )
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
Imagine you quit WoW with L80 toon with epic gear, then started again and decided to try a 10 man raid solo with a L5 character..... Eve sort of lets you try stuff like that : )
Hope my example makes sense, most people seem somewhat familiar with WoW terminology.... I only made it to L26 in that game though.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
lol i understand you now. The only thing keeping me from really playing is the chatroom type of socializing. I find it easier to socialize in other games like Lineage 2 and WoW and other games with avatars. In eve, you dont really see many other people, and in some newbie zones, people just dont talk even when you try and talk to somebody out there. Also i dislike grinding money, it feels like a second job. Although it probably does because i dont make much money doing just missions.
I'm thinking of maybe just going out and finding a random corp to join, then try low sec ratting. Although the last time i did go into lowsec i was gate camped. Lol thinking back on my previous trys to play, this game is just hard.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Comments
But what is catching up, really? Does it mean you have exactly the same options as the 'uber guy who started from beta', from economy and industry to PVP and all the things in between?
Or is it the ability to compete on a basically level playing field, with no great advantage or real disadvantage to any particular side?
If all you care about is total SP as 'catching up', well, then you might be in for a dissappointment. Also, if you think 'catching up' means you're as good as they are from the start-gate out, you're in for a dissappointment.
But if you think about it for a while, you'll see that the improvement curves are logarithmic, and that you can get to where the 'vets' are now, while they won't be improving as much or at all while you do. It takes a while, don't doubt that, but truth of the matter is that the final lvl 5's or even lvl4's in the high-tier skills aren't that important. Once you can use the module, the 5-10% increase in its effectiveness isn't what makes or breaks a combat situation most of the time.
However, yes, it does take time. Two-three months for options like T2-fitted battleship, six months or more for capital ships (but without a good corp to help you, setting up and running a capital isn't something you'll want to do anyways). For mining, you can be in a Hulk some 3-4 months training time from the skill tree.
What does all this come down to? Being in a T2 battleship is not the pwnbutton for PVP fights, and neither are the capitals. Every sort of ship is needed for a balanced fleet, from tacklers to jammers to logistics to DPS and finally, capitals if you intend to go POS-busting or fighting other caps. There's stuff to do for all the while you train your skills, if you aren't locked in the mindset of 'not a vet yet, can't compete'.
The biggest problem I have with this argument is that it is constantly touted out as the reason for newbies not to even think about joining or even trying out EVE, even if they might find the playstyle otherwise to their liking and think the idea intriguing. "Don't bother, the vets are all uber and just want to wtfbbqspawncamprape all newbies all the time, ever. And you won't ever catch up to them either since SP = uberness and someone with 30mil sp in industry will still wtfbbq you with just a glance when you're in a PVP ship."
It's as if there's a group of people who, for whatever reason, want to discourage other potential players from even trying out the game, and seeing if it is what they might like. Some of this must come from personal bad experiences, but it's starting to feel like there's more to it then just that. The constant antipathy from self-proclaimed 'vets' who vehemently argue that there's no equality in EVE, just a rigid hierarchy where the top dogs were there from the start sounds either self-serving excuse for not liking the game as much as they'd like, or as deliberate trolling.
coming from a very experienced player, this part was the most discouraging of the post. How difficult would you think it would be for somebody who knows nothing of Eve, unlike somebody like yourself.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
coming from a very experienced player, this part was the most discouraging of the post. How difficult would you think it would be for somebody who knows nothing of Eve, unlike somebody like yourself.
Point taken, and my apologies. Keep in mind I was thinking (and acting) like a 4 year vet... except I was flying a noob ship with no money and no skills. In other words my brain was writing checks that my toon couldn't really cash
It is notable that even though I was trying stuff that most people would consider "highly inadvisable" (velator in 0.0 ftw) I was still putting money in the bank and having a blast. In Eve, if you can dream it you can do it.. or at least explode in an entertaining and spectacular fashion while you TRY to do it.
I was trying to get the point across that Eve will pretty much let you try anything.. I still find the game just exciting these days as I did when I fired up my first cruiser.
Give the game a shot, hopefully you love it as much as many of us do : )
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
Better example:
Imagine you quit WoW with L80 toon with epic gear, then started again and decided to try a 10 man raid solo with a L5 character..... Eve sort of lets you try stuff like that : )
Hope my example makes sense, most people seem somewhat familiar with WoW terminology.... I only made it to L26 in that game though.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
lol i understand you now. The only thing keeping me from really playing is the chatroom type of socializing. I find it easier to socialize in other games like Lineage 2 and WoW and other games with avatars. In eve, you dont really see many other people, and in some newbie zones, people just dont talk even when you try and talk to somebody out there. Also i dislike grinding money, it feels like a second job. Although it probably does because i dont make much money doing just missions.
I'm thinking of maybe just going out and finding a random corp to join, then try low sec ratting. Although the last time i did go into lowsec i was gate camped. Lol thinking back on my previous trys to play, this game is just hard.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -