So if I read this correctly this will be a forum for e-peen stroking tweens that are burned out on icarly.com and Hannah Montanna? Sounds about like the age group that is creating this site and the ones that seem to be backing it. I have never seen a larger group of sociopathic children that think they are acting "all adult like. "
they may act like kids but you'd be surprised at the ages of some of these dedicated griefers.
So if I read this correctly this will be a forum for e-peen stroking tweens that are burned out on icarly.com and Hannah Montanna? Sounds about like the age group that is creating this site and the ones that seem to be backing it. I have never seen a larger group of sociopathic children that think they are acting "all adult like. "
they may act like kids but you'd be surprised at the ages of some of these dedicated griefers.
Let me guess most of them are in their 20's? I would believe that since I work with a bunch of 20 something engineers and they are the most self centered, boorish, immature people I have ever met.
so let me get this straight so i can make sure that i am clear on the concepts here. Gankers are saying its fun to kill someone who has so much attachment to there "pixels". Which is kinda of a condradiction because how did they get in a position to grief in the first place. Takes some dedication to get a character of sufficient level to grief. Also ive seen more whining from gankers that i have from people that actually want to play. I read in one of the thread that there are guard towers scattered around and you should see how bad that dude was whining about how he couldn't easy mode newbs anymore. And contrary to popular belief most gankers are members of the military. Thats the mentality in the military is "you get treated like shit as an E-1 so hurry up and get promoted so you can get your turn of treating the people below u like shit".
The funniest thing is when a ganker (even better is gankers) think your quick and easy prey and u mange to turn the tables. People that gank u and fail are far more likely to come back and rage fight u again and again. People u gank usually just go about their business
"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"
meh why stop at the game. Lets just run out in the streets and pk everyone. I mean, we all do live in an environment that has mechanics that support it right. Since you can do it right? Just because you can, does not mean you should, or that it is supported. But I agree. I support full and real world pvp. Lets kick some babies in the head and steal their loot. I need more rattles. In all seriousness though, how well could a community of people who like to grief others do? Wouldn't you end up imploding? Cheers!
You see, the difference is clear. PKers and Griefers see the clear distinction between the real world and virtual reality and also see how some players have a very unhealthy emotional dependency on their pixels, and exploit it. It's not our fault someone has emotional and social issues and gets too seriously involved in a game. Dying or losing some pixles in a game should absolutely not affect your state of mind. If someone is having a serious emotional distress because of a virtual game property damage, they need a serious check up.
People are like this in RL too they're called Bullies...Bullies are usually the emotionally scarred asshats that make everyone else's life miserable so he can feel better or feel 'enjoyment'...these people are basically RL Greifers and they tend to be the lowest of scum in society.
Sorry Its frowned in in RL it should be frowned on or heavily consequenced in Games too..people want Choices like they do in RL .. choices come with consequence...Griefers suck and should continue to be banned by Games.
meh why stop at the game. Lets just run out in the streets and pk everyone. I mean, we all do live in an environment that has mechanics that support it right. Since you can do it right? Just because you can, does not mean you should, or that it is supported. But I agree. I support full and real world pvp. Lets kick some babies in the head and steal their loot. I need more rattles. In all seriousness though, how well could a community of people who like to grief others do? Wouldn't you end up imploding? Cheers!
You see, the difference is clear. PKers and Griefers see the clear distinction between the real world and virtual reality and also see how some players have a very unhealthy emotional dependency on their pixels, and exploit it. It's not our fault someone has emotional and social issues and gets too seriously involved in a game. Dying or losing some pixles in a game should absolutely not affect your state of mind. If someone is having a serious emotional distress because of a virtual game property damage, they need a serious check up.
People are like this in RL too they're called Bullies...Bullies are usually the emotionally scarred asshats that make everyone else's life miserable so he can feel better or feel 'enjoyment'...these people are basically RL Greifers and they tend to be the lowest of scum in society.
Sorry Its frowned in in RL it should be frowned on or heavily consequenced in Games too..people want Choices like they do in RL .. choices come with consequence...Griefers suck and should continue to be banned by Games.
Im about to graduate from WVU with my pych degree and this is some material from a pbulished journal i read. Its not verbatim but its what i remember and its pretty close.
In all conscious and semi conscious beings there is an urge to express dominance over other members of their species. In individuals who are mentally scarred in certain ways that urge is much stronger because it boosts self esteem and offers a sense of control their enviroment when they are denied that control previously: e.g. the father beats the son and the mother; the son can't do anything even though he is larger than average, he goes to school and exerts control over others to "feel better". The urge to dominate others is kept in check by human empathy, e.g. when i was in school i was bigger than some but i didn't take that kids lunch money because i instantly think what it would feel like to have that done to me. However in sociopathic types that empathy is eigther overwhelmed by the enhanced urge to dominate or the trauma is so severe that it no longer exist.
In individuals that are sociopathic that are built average or even smaller than average in proportion to their age group another channel has to be found to channel this domination urge and thats where u get cyber bullies, griefers, hackers etc.
this part is me:
About a decade ago they estimation was that 1 out of every 100 people had sociopathic minds. In this day im sure that number has increased. So therefore its not uncommon to find communities of them. This makes calling them out even harder because there are several in the area that express common thought patterns and so they reason that if "that guy thinks that way as well, then i must be right". Also on top of the fact is that when you call them out as a bad person they wear it as a badge of honor and among a community of sociopaths you gain a label....e.g. carebear
"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"
meh why stop at the game. Lets just run out in the streets and pk everyone. I mean, we all do live in an environment that has mechanics that support it right. Since you can do it right? Just because you can, does not mean you should, or that it is supported. But I agree. I support full and real world pvp. Lets kick some babies in the head and steal their loot. I need more rattles. In all seriousness though, how well could a community of people who like to grief others do? Wouldn't you end up imploding? Cheers!
You see, the difference is clear. PKers and Griefers see the clear distinction between the real world and virtual reality and also see how some players have a very unhealthy emotional dependency on their pixels, and exploit it. It's not our fault someone has emotional and social issues and gets too seriously involved in a game. Dying or losing some pixles in a game should absolutely not affect your state of mind. If someone is having a serious emotional distress because of a virtual game property damage, they need a serious check up.
People are like this in RL too they're called Bullies...Bullies are usually the emotionally scarred asshats that make everyone else's life miserable so he can feel better or feel 'enjoyment'...these people are basically RL Greifers and they tend to be the lowest of scum in society.
Sorry Its frowned in in RL it should be frowned on or heavily consequenced in Games too..people want Choices like they do in RL .. choices come with consequence...Griefers suck and should continue to be banned by Games.
Im about to graduate from WVU with my pych degree and this is some material from a pbulished journal i read. Its not verbatim but its what i remember and its pretty close.
In all conscious and semi conscious beings there is an urge to express dominance over other members of their species. In individuals who are mentally scarred in certain ways that urge is much stronger because it boosts self esteem and offers a sense of control their enviroment when they are denied that control previously: e.g. the father beats the son and the mother; the son can't do anything even though he is larger than average, he goes to school and exerts control over others to "feel better". The urge to dominate others is kept in check by human empathy, e.g. when i was in school i was bigger than some but i didn't take that kids lunch money because i instantly think what it would feel like to have that done to me. However in sociopathic types that empathy is eigther overwhelmed by the enhanced urge to dominate or the trauma is so severe that it no longer exist.
In individuals that are sociopathic that are built average or even smaller than average in proportion to their age group another channel has to be found to channel this domination urge and thats where u get cyber bullies, griefers, hackers etc.
this part is me:
About a decade ago they estimation was that 1 out of every 100 people had sociopathic minds. In this day im sure that number has increased. So therefore its not uncommon to find communities of them. This makes calling them out even harder because there are several in the area that express common thought patterns and so they reason that if "that guy thinks that way as well, then i must be right". Also on top of the fact is that when you call them out as a bad person they wear it as a badge of honor and among a community of sociopaths you gain a label....e.g. carebear
I think you are giving the 'griefers' too much credit. The vast majority of griefers as in: 'those who love to gank' aren't sociopaths. Sociopaths are still a rare breed ... luckily.
I have had the missfortune in my WOW years of having a sociopath single me out as one of his favourite targets. Things he did to me and others included; following me when I transferred to another server, starting guilds with names with a one letter difference of the guildnames he was trying 'to destroy' including mine a few times, tell a myriad of the most aweful lies about me and how I am in real life in order to alianate my new servers population from me (which luckily got him banned eventually) and generally craving for attention in public chat and trying to build up his army to fullfil his 'illusions of grandeur'. He was always hellbent to destroy certain players and guilds and managed to harm quite alot of peeps while doing so.
I actually felt pitty for the guy despite all the things he had done to me since it was so obvious that something wasn't right with him (considering the lack of having a reasonable incentive to single me out). I was patient and polite with him time and time again but when 4 or 5 unknown people whisper you each day with questions like "I heard you did xxxx irl, is that really true !!?" it gets to you after a while.
Thing is, this textbook case of a scheming sociopath with a twisted sense of social reality, telling constant lies about others and himself and a general lack of empathy wasn't much of a ganker at all! It took him ages to get to max level since the thing he revelled in was something else; whispering people, messing around with people's relationships, scheming and dreaming ... 'sociopathing', really. Standing still for hours and messing with people's minds in whispered conversations.
Though I do think there is truth in what you quote about people having the urge to dominate but I don't think those who are called 'griefers' by their victims , because they got serial ganked in pvp a few times, lack empathy or have a high chance of being sociopathic. Many of the people I encountered which were 'ruthless gankers' happened to be really nice, open minded people when I got to know them, in fact. In many games I played there also exsisted some mutual respect between the gankers on both sides of the fence.
At least they don't get offended by getting killed alot themselves and don't feel the urge to express their grief on forums in order to have everyone know 'how much you have been mistreated' by said ganker and what an obvious <insert nasty RL insult here> he obviously is. In my opinion those folks have a tougher time playing their mmo's. They take things too seriously and have a general inability of seeing things in perspective. A spoiled kid's attitude, really.
I actually had several situations where a sociopathic sort singled me out in EVE. In general they were easy enough to get banned. One in particular was downright scary. His strategic mind was so sharp I couldn't shake him. So in a rather brilliant series of events I convinced him someone else was his new target, then another and another. Somehow or other he started to feed off my insinuations. He was my rather unfaithful and dangerous guard dog after awhile.
My biggest advice after those events are, think. Even Sociopaths have a use.
What you encountered was a bit more extreme than the average, not all sociopaths become serial killers and not all sociopaths develop obsessions like the one you described. However sociopaths do have a common trait in that "once you get to know them they are nice". Sociopaths usually lack or have a very supressed guilt complexes. They will lie and manipulate opinion of themselves so as not to be alienated, after all its hard to get what u want done if everyone knows to stay away from u. This is no always the case sometimes sociopathism is so advanced that the individual doesn't care what anyone thinks or feels and cares little for consequence like in your example. However, in most cases the sociopath is the nice kid or guy that goes home and kills frogs for fun (knew a kid like that once) or goes on people they know my spaces and posts horrible rumors or whatever its is they do.
It has been clearly demonstrated that the attitude of a "hardcore ganker" is to revel in negative emotions they might incur. In normal people someone displaying frustration or anger invokes sympathy this is not the case for a sociopath. And unforunatly sociopaths are far more common than you think like i said the figure was 1 out of 100 a decade ago and in the exponential age that we live in i would not be suprised if that figure was now 1 in 50.
"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"
LOL how on earth could you moderate a forum that all will be happening in it will be my epeen is bigger than yours conversations and lots of smack talk.
What you encountered was a bit more extreme than the average, not all sociopaths become serial killers and not all sociopaths develop obsessions like the one you described. However sociopaths do have a common trait in that "once you get to know them they are nice". Sociopaths usually lack or have a very supressed guilt complexes. They will lie and manipulate opinion of themselves so as not to be alienated, after all its hard to get what u want done if everyone knows to stay away from u. This is no always the case sometimes sociopathism is so advanced that the individual doesn't care what anyone thinks or feels and cares little for consequence like in your example. However, in most cases the sociopath is the nice kid or guy that goes home and kills frogs for fun (knew a kid like that once) or goes on people they know my spaces and posts horrible rumors or whatever its is they do. Well, he did try to befriend people all the time as well; build his army of henchmen again and again, but he was a bit clumsy in that the nasty stuff he did to others got out which had his new friends running away from him time and time again. Anyway; he was more interested in exorting power through conversation and forum posts than by pvp or killing people; trying to get to the RL person behind the avatar, if you will. It has been clearly demonstrated that the attitude of a "hardcore ganker" is to revel in negative emotions they might incur. In normal people someone displaying frustration or anger invokes sympathy this is not the case for a sociopath. And unforunatly sociopaths are far more common than you think like i said the figure was 1 out of 100 a decade ago and in the exponential age that we live in i would not be suprised if that figure was now 1 in 50. I disagree with you here. I'm afraid. It isn't demonstrated that the lust of his victim's negative emotions is the only mechanic which produces those hardcore gankers. In my example, at times where I killed lower leveled players multiple times or people who were fighting mobs or doing some tough quest, 'griefing' was never the reason. It was more something like an uncontrolable urge to kill; 'red is dead' no matter if I killed that player a minute earlier or if he is fighting mobs. Just your average 'me Tarzan, member of diz group, you not member of diz group, you belong to udder group, dat makes you enemy, I go kill you now'.
If that person felt bad about being killed so quickly again than he shouldn't have returned to the place where he just got killed. Another reason to serial gank players was that I, and others in my guild, tried to get our victims to call for back up in order to have a nice (and more challenging / exciting) scrap of world pvp which often had us end up as the losing party, but hey, we had a good time! Then there are also the excitement junkies; gankers for that endorphine and adrenaline kick (which I suspect myself of as well, I guess). Ofcourse sadism can be a huge incentive to gank but I am a happy ganker without being hampered by any sadistic urges at all, just like most of the gankers I've met. Most of them were just your 'red is dead', 'let's kill for fun' crowd. Not a 'let's kill to grief or get people to quit the game' sadist bunch.
Your a rare breed DarkPony..most "real' gankers / griefers do it for the sheer enjoyment of getting someone pissed. Look at the most famous Griefing Gankers of them all...they'll go as far as to lose someone thousands of real dollers in Second Life for a good laugh.
To be honest if your intention was to get him to call back up you should of gone for a bigger batch of them instead of a solo'er that had a death wish. Alot of guilds don't bother with retailiation over the loss of a single member. THey'll retailiate over the loss of huge supplies, territory, etc. A single member means you simply garner some anger from that person.
In Darkfall if you really want a good fight...ignore the solo player and go after the carvans of suppliers heading into player towns.
Your a rare breed DarkPony..most "real' gankers / griefers do it for the sheer enjoyment of getting someone to pissed. Look at the most face of the Griefing Gankers of them all...they'll go as far as to lose someone thousands of real dollers in Second Life for a good laugh. To be honest if your intention was to get him to call back up you should of gone for a bigger batch of them isntead of a solo'er that had a death wish. Alot of guilds don't bother with retailiation over the loss of a single member. THey'll retailiate over the loss of huge supplies, territory, etc. A single member means you simply garner some anger from that person. In Darkfall if you really want a good fight...ignore the solo player and go after the carvans of suppliers heading into player towns.
Heh, I thought that that whole neanderthal group psychology thingy I am guilty of was pretty much widespread throughout humanity
p.s. I do hope there will be actual caravans like that. Would be awesome to ambush those ...
*steps in the middle of the road*
"Ladies and gentlemen, surrender your valuables at once. There are twenty arrows trained at your bodies at this very moment and it would be extremely unwise to ..."
Your a rare breed DarkPony..most "real' gankers / griefers do it for the sheer enjoyment of getting someone to pissed. Look at the most face of the Griefing Gankers of them all...they'll go as far as to lose someone thousands of real dollers in Second Life for a good laugh. To be honest if your intention was to get him to call back up you should of gone for a bigger batch of them isntead of a solo'er that had a death wish. Alot of guilds don't bother with retailiation over the loss of a single member. THey'll retailiate over the loss of huge supplies, territory, etc. A single member means you simply garner some anger from that person. In Darkfall if you really want a good fight...ignore the solo player and go after the carvans of suppliers heading into player towns.
Heh, I thought that that whole neanderthal group psychology thingy I am guilty of was pretty much widespread throughout humanity
p.s. I do hope there will be actual caravans like that. Would be awesome to ambush those ...
*steps in the middle of the road*
"Ladies and gentlemen, surrender your valuables at once. There are twenty arrows trained at your bodies at this very moment and it would be extremely unwise to ..."
"FU NUB!" *raises club*
Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew ... thud!
Oops, lost myself there for a bit ...
Yep "Thud" as you drop down dead as you've just been out ganked by another grp of gankers
Your a rare breed DarkPony..most "real' gankers / griefers do it for the sheer enjoyment of getting someone to pissed. Look at the most face of the Griefing Gankers of them all...they'll go as far as to lose someone thousands of real dollers in Second Life for a good laugh. To be honest if your intention was to get him to call back up you should of gone for a bigger batch of them isntead of a solo'er that had a death wish. Alot of guilds don't bother with retailiation over the loss of a single member. THey'll retailiate over the loss of huge supplies, territory, etc. A single member means you simply garner some anger from that person. In Darkfall if you really want a good fight...ignore the solo player and go after the carvans of suppliers heading into player towns.
Heh, I thought that that whole neanderthal group psychology thingy I am guilty of was pretty much widespread throughout humanity
p.s. I do hope there will be actual caravans like that. Would be awesome to ambush those ...
*steps in the middle of the road*
"Ladies and gentlemen, surrender your valuables at once. There are twenty arrows trained at your bodies at this very moment and it would be extremely unwise to ..."
"FU NUB!" *raises club*
Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew ... thud!
Oops, lost myself there for a bit ...
Yep "Thud" as you drop down dead as you've just been out ganked by another grp of gankers
Uhuh, well, it's all in the game. I wouldn't want to play an mmo without that added sense of danger anymore.
It is so much more exciting to know that behind every rock or tree a real person with human, unpredictable skill and behaviour can be lurking then just going about the world where the only thing you have to worry about is minding the agro range of mobs.
Haha this forum is great. So much crying attention.
Well, it's a nice subject to have a discussion on. People's opinions are pretty much black or white and there is this big psychological component to it as well. In every mmo I played the people are pretty much split between avid pro or avid anti ganking. You don't see those who are inbetween that often. Interesting stuff, not in the last place because it makes this a very important decider for developers as well; do we cater for the 'free-for-all-pvp-happy-crowd' or for the 'pvp-is-ok-but-not-at-times-when-I-don't-feel-like-it people'?
Some developers try to tempt both groups ... and fail ... like WAR did in my opinion.
You see, the difference is clear. PKers and Griefers see the clear distinction between the real world and virtual reality and also see how some players have a very unhealthy emotional dependency on their pixels, and exploit it. It's not our fault someone has emotional and social issues and gets too seriously involved in a game. Dying or losing some pixles in a game should absolutely not affect your state of mind. If someone is having a serious emotional distress because of a virtual game property damage, they need a serious check up.
Isn' this the same as walking into a basketball game and popping the basket ball. Obviously there are some people who have an unhealthy attatchment to thier basket ball?
A few things I am surprised nobody brought up (or if they did, i missed, the thread is long)
1) Carebear = (for example) a dark elf healer healing a wood elf in a group in EQ, or a Troll Picking mobs off a Dranei who is about to die in WoW. Cooperating over faction lines. Carebear == anti PK or anti grief.
2) Gank = Fast Kill with opponent unable to retaliate. Gank == grief unless the intention of the aggressor is to cause the victim RL harm.
3) If Balphegor etc are all about a griefer community, why dont they play eve? In eve people make their living being pirates in the literal sense of the word. Picking their targets carefully and etc. There are corporations dedicated to this in eve. Of course in Eve one's reputation is everything and high profile asshats are hunted to the ends of the universe but thousands of eve players exist as pirates even so (I'm not a pirate in eve, I'm a member of a 0.0 alliance so our pvp is on a very large scale)
4) Griefing is nearly always a violation of the end user lisence (EULA) that one must "read" and click to play a game. Wouldnt it be a not smart idea to make a public meeting place of people whose sole purpose is to break the contracts they are consenting to when they log in the game? If I were a victim of a member of that grief website, i bet i could use the website to help get his or her account banned.
Itch
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
A few things I am surprised nobody brought up (or if they did, i missed, the thread is long)
1) Carebear = (for example) a dark elf healer healing a wood elf in a group in EQ, or a Troll Picking mobs off a Dranei who is about to die in WoW. Cooperating over faction lines. Carebear == anti PK or anti grief. Negative sir. Carebear is someone who has a need to have a constant protection from other player's actions (PvP), either hardcoded or by choice, and does not want to lose his virtually earned property without his consent. 2) Gank = Fast Kill with opponent unable to retaliate. Gank == grief unless the intention of the aggressor is to cause the victim RL harm. /Facepalm. Do you seriously fail to see how emotionally unhealthy someone has to be to be emotionally hurt over in-game action in real life? That's called forgetting the clear lines between reality and fantasy. It's like becoming depressed and emotionally unstable over Harry Potter. 3) If Balphegor etc are all about a griefer community, why dont they play eve? In eve people make their living being pirates in the literal sense of the word. Picking their targets carefully and etc. There are corporations dedicated to this in eve. Of course in Eve one's reputation is everything and high profile asshats are hunted to the ends of the universe but thousands of eve players exist as pirates even so (I'm not a pirate in eve, I'm a member of a 0.0 alliance so our pvp is on a very large scale) Who said me or we have not or don't play EVE? EVE is a great game! 4) Griefing is nearly always a violation of the end user lisence (EULA) that one must "read" and click to play a game. Wouldnt it be a not smart idea to make a public meeting place of people whose sole purpose is to break the contracts they are consenting to when they log in the game? If I were a victim of a member of that grief website, i bet i could use the website to help get his or her account banned. Haha, then get me banned. Maybe hire a lawyer and try to bring us to court over your pixle lose? Itch
We have most of the basic site done. We are currently working on graphic aspects of the site. Once we have everything prepared, we'll upload the altered version of the website and turn on all the forums.
We are still looking for a volunteer to help us with some banners, if anyone is interested.
By the way, everyone is welcome to visit our IRC
irc.quakenet.org:6667
#Darkfall (Unofficial, Unmoderated and largest Darkfall community channel besides the official one on Stratics)
This sounds like an interesting social experiment to me. Take all the griefers and send them to a website together and alone...now who the hell are they going to grief?
Like a planet full of vampires...wtf you gonna eat?
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
This sounds like an interesting social experiment to me. Take all the griefers and send them to a website together and alone...now who the hell are they going to grief?
Like a planet full of vampires...wtf you gonna eat?
This sounds like an interesting social experiment to me. Take all the griefers and send them to a website together and alone...now who the hell are they going to grief?
Like a planet full of vampires...wtf you gonna eat?
See, PvP happens.... IN THE GAMES!
Tough concept to understand, huh?
dude, read teh crap going on in your own thread and try that again....seriously...
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
If you play it smart you can real easy grief the griefers or avoid it also very easy.
But you have to look and figureout how believe me, its very annoying for them:P
Grief the Griefers Darkfall have a perfect sytem for that and a world with many posibillitys to annoy the reds easy.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
This sounds like an interesting social experiment to me. Take all the griefers and send them to a website together and alone...now who the hell are they going to grief?
Like a planet full of vampires...wtf you gonna eat?
See, PvP happens.... IN THE GAMES!
Tough concept to understand, huh?
dude, read teh crap going on in your own thread and try that again....seriously...
Yes, this thread is hilarious! It reflects the vast majority of this forum, a bunch of moderator-mommy protected carebears. The people who I'm looking for have and continue to contact me.
Your continues crying about griefers and pkers just helps me keep the thread alive and get the attention of the right people! Thanks for the help!
Comments
So if I read this correctly this will be a forum for e-peen stroking tweens that are burned out on icarly.com and Hannah Montanna?
Sounds about like the age group that is creating this site and the ones that seem to be backing it.
I have never seen a larger group of sociopathic children that think they are acting "all adult like. "
they may act like kids but you'd be surprised at the ages of some of these dedicated griefers.
they may act like kids but you'd be surprised at the ages of some of these dedicated griefers.
Let me guess most of them are in their 20's? I would believe that since I work with a bunch of 20 something engineers and they are the most self centered, boorish, immature people I have ever met.
so let me get this straight so i can make sure that i am clear on the concepts here. Gankers are saying its fun to kill someone who has so much attachment to there "pixels". Which is kinda of a condradiction because how did they get in a position to grief in the first place. Takes some dedication to get a character of sufficient level to grief. Also ive seen more whining from gankers that i have from people that actually want to play. I read in one of the thread that there are guard towers scattered around and you should see how bad that dude was whining about how he couldn't easy mode newbs anymore. And contrary to popular belief most gankers are members of the military. Thats the mentality in the military is "you get treated like shit as an E-1 so hurry up and get promoted so you can get your turn of treating the people below u like shit".
The funniest thing is when a ganker (even better is gankers) think your quick and easy prey and u mange to turn the tables. People that gank u and fail are far more likely to come back and rage fight u again and again. People u gank usually just go about their business
"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"
You see, the difference is clear. PKers and Griefers see the clear distinction between the real world and virtual reality and also see how some players have a very unhealthy emotional dependency on their pixels, and exploit it. It's not our fault someone has emotional and social issues and gets too seriously involved in a game. Dying or losing some pixles in a game should absolutely not affect your state of mind. If someone is having a serious emotional distress because of a virtual game property damage, they need a serious check up.
People are like this in RL too they're called Bullies...Bullies are usually the emotionally scarred asshats that make everyone else's life miserable so he can feel better or feel 'enjoyment'...these people are basically RL Greifers and they tend to be the lowest of scum in society.
Sorry Its frowned in in RL it should be frowned on or heavily consequenced in Games too..people want Choices like they do in RL .. choices come with consequence...Griefers suck and should continue to be banned by Games.
You see, the difference is clear. PKers and Griefers see the clear distinction between the real world and virtual reality and also see how some players have a very unhealthy emotional dependency on their pixels, and exploit it. It's not our fault someone has emotional and social issues and gets too seriously involved in a game. Dying or losing some pixles in a game should absolutely not affect your state of mind. If someone is having a serious emotional distress because of a virtual game property damage, they need a serious check up.
People are like this in RL too they're called Bullies...Bullies are usually the emotionally scarred asshats that make everyone else's life miserable so he can feel better or feel 'enjoyment'...these people are basically RL Greifers and they tend to be the lowest of scum in society.
Sorry Its frowned in in RL it should be frowned on or heavily consequenced in Games too..people want Choices like they do in RL .. choices come with consequence...Griefers suck and should continue to be banned by Games.
Im about to graduate from WVU with my pych degree and this is some material from a pbulished journal i read. Its not verbatim but its what i remember and its pretty close.
In all conscious and semi conscious beings there is an urge to express dominance over other members of their species. In individuals who are mentally scarred in certain ways that urge is much stronger because it boosts self esteem and offers a sense of control their enviroment when they are denied that control previously: e.g. the father beats the son and the mother; the son can't do anything even though he is larger than average, he goes to school and exerts control over others to "feel better". The urge to dominate others is kept in check by human empathy, e.g. when i was in school i was bigger than some but i didn't take that kids lunch money because i instantly think what it would feel like to have that done to me. However in sociopathic types that empathy is eigther overwhelmed by the enhanced urge to dominate or the trauma is so severe that it no longer exist.
In individuals that are sociopathic that are built average or even smaller than average in proportion to their age group another channel has to be found to channel this domination urge and thats where u get cyber bullies, griefers, hackers etc.
this part is me:
About a decade ago they estimation was that 1 out of every 100 people had sociopathic minds. In this day im sure that number has increased. So therefore its not uncommon to find communities of them. This makes calling them out even harder because there are several in the area that express common thought patterns and so they reason that if "that guy thinks that way as well, then i must be right". Also on top of the fact is that when you call them out as a bad person they wear it as a badge of honor and among a community of sociopaths you gain a label....e.g. carebear
"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"
You see, the difference is clear. PKers and Griefers see the clear distinction between the real world and virtual reality and also see how some players have a very unhealthy emotional dependency on their pixels, and exploit it. It's not our fault someone has emotional and social issues and gets too seriously involved in a game. Dying or losing some pixles in a game should absolutely not affect your state of mind. If someone is having a serious emotional distress because of a virtual game property damage, they need a serious check up.
People are like this in RL too they're called Bullies...Bullies are usually the emotionally scarred asshats that make everyone else's life miserable so he can feel better or feel 'enjoyment'...these people are basically RL Greifers and they tend to be the lowest of scum in society.
Sorry Its frowned in in RL it should be frowned on or heavily consequenced in Games too..people want Choices like they do in RL .. choices come with consequence...Griefers suck and should continue to be banned by Games.
Im about to graduate from WVU with my pych degree and this is some material from a pbulished journal i read. Its not verbatim but its what i remember and its pretty close.
In all conscious and semi conscious beings there is an urge to express dominance over other members of their species. In individuals who are mentally scarred in certain ways that urge is much stronger because it boosts self esteem and offers a sense of control their enviroment when they are denied that control previously: e.g. the father beats the son and the mother; the son can't do anything even though he is larger than average, he goes to school and exerts control over others to "feel better". The urge to dominate others is kept in check by human empathy, e.g. when i was in school i was bigger than some but i didn't take that kids lunch money because i instantly think what it would feel like to have that done to me. However in sociopathic types that empathy is eigther overwhelmed by the enhanced urge to dominate or the trauma is so severe that it no longer exist.
In individuals that are sociopathic that are built average or even smaller than average in proportion to their age group another channel has to be found to channel this domination urge and thats where u get cyber bullies, griefers, hackers etc.
this part is me:
About a decade ago they estimation was that 1 out of every 100 people had sociopathic minds. In this day im sure that number has increased. So therefore its not uncommon to find communities of them. This makes calling them out even harder because there are several in the area that express common thought patterns and so they reason that if "that guy thinks that way as well, then i must be right". Also on top of the fact is that when you call them out as a bad person they wear it as a badge of honor and among a community of sociopaths you gain a label....e.g. carebear
I think you are giving the 'griefers' too much credit. The vast majority of griefers as in: 'those who love to gank' aren't sociopaths. Sociopaths are still a rare breed ... luckily.
I have had the missfortune in my WOW years of having a sociopath single me out as one of his favourite targets. Things he did to me and others included; following me when I transferred to another server, starting guilds with names with a one letter difference of the guildnames he was trying 'to destroy' including mine a few times, tell a myriad of the most aweful lies about me and how I am in real life in order to alianate my new servers population from me (which luckily got him banned eventually) and generally craving for attention in public chat and trying to build up his army to fullfil his 'illusions of grandeur'. He was always hellbent to destroy certain players and guilds and managed to harm quite alot of peeps while doing so.
I actually felt pitty for the guy despite all the things he had done to me since it was so obvious that something wasn't right with him (considering the lack of having a reasonable incentive to single me out). I was patient and polite with him time and time again but when 4 or 5 unknown people whisper you each day with questions like "I heard you did xxxx irl, is that really true !!?" it gets to you after a while.
Thing is, this textbook case of a scheming sociopath with a twisted sense of social reality, telling constant lies about others and himself and a general lack of empathy wasn't much of a ganker at all! It took him ages to get to max level since the thing he revelled in was something else; whispering people, messing around with people's relationships, scheming and dreaming ... 'sociopathing', really. Standing still for hours and messing with people's minds in whispered conversations.
Though I do think there is truth in what you quote about people having the urge to dominate but I don't think those who are called 'griefers' by their victims , because they got serial ganked in pvp a few times, lack empathy or have a high chance of being sociopathic. Many of the people I encountered which were 'ruthless gankers' happened to be really nice, open minded people when I got to know them, in fact. In many games I played there also exsisted some mutual respect between the gankers on both sides of the fence.
At least they don't get offended by getting killed alot themselves and don't feel the urge to express their grief on forums in order to have everyone know 'how much you have been mistreated' by said ganker and what an obvious <insert nasty RL insult here> he obviously is. In my opinion those folks have a tougher time playing their mmo's. They take things too seriously and have a general inability of seeing things in perspective. A spoiled kid's attitude, really.
My brand new bloggity blog.
I actually had several situations where a sociopathic sort singled me out in EVE. In general they were easy enough to get banned. One in particular was downright scary. His strategic mind was so sharp I couldn't shake him. So in a rather brilliant series of events I convinced him someone else was his new target, then another and another. Somehow or other he started to feed off my insinuations. He was my rather unfaithful and dangerous guard dog after awhile.
My biggest advice after those events are, think. Even Sociopaths have a use.
What you encountered was a bit more extreme than the average, not all sociopaths become serial killers and not all sociopaths develop obsessions like the one you described. However sociopaths do have a common trait in that "once you get to know them they are nice". Sociopaths usually lack or have a very supressed guilt complexes. They will lie and manipulate opinion of themselves so as not to be alienated, after all its hard to get what u want done if everyone knows to stay away from u. This is no always the case sometimes sociopathism is so advanced that the individual doesn't care what anyone thinks or feels and cares little for consequence like in your example. However, in most cases the sociopath is the nice kid or guy that goes home and kills frogs for fun (knew a kid like that once) or goes on people they know my spaces and posts horrible rumors or whatever its is they do.
It has been clearly demonstrated that the attitude of a "hardcore ganker" is to revel in negative emotions they might incur. In normal people someone displaying frustration or anger invokes sympathy this is not the case for a sociopath. And unforunatly sociopaths are far more common than you think like i said the figure was 1 out of 100 a decade ago and in the exponential age that we live in i would not be suprised if that figure was now 1 in 50.
"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"
LOL how on earth could you moderate a forum that all will be happening in it will be my epeen is bigger than yours conversations and lots of smack talk.
Oh wait...
My brand new bloggity blog.
Your a rare breed DarkPony..most "real' gankers / griefers do it for the sheer enjoyment of getting someone pissed. Look at the most famous Griefing Gankers of them all...they'll go as far as to lose someone thousands of real dollers in Second Life for a good laugh.
To be honest if your intention was to get him to call back up you should of gone for a bigger batch of them instead of a solo'er that had a death wish. Alot of guilds don't bother with retailiation over the loss of a single member. THey'll retailiate over the loss of huge supplies, territory, etc. A single member means you simply garner some anger from that person.
In Darkfall if you really want a good fight...ignore the solo player and go after the carvans of suppliers heading into player towns.
Heh, I thought that that whole neanderthal group psychology thingy I am guilty of was pretty much widespread throughout humanity
p.s. I do hope there will be actual caravans like that. Would be awesome to ambush those ...
*steps in the middle of the road*
"Ladies and gentlemen, surrender your valuables at once. There are twenty arrows trained at your bodies at this very moment and it would be extremely unwise to ..."
"FU NUB!" *raises club*
Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew ... thud!
Oops, lost myself there for a bit ...
My brand new bloggity blog.
Heh, I thought that that whole neanderthal group psychology thingy I am guilty of was pretty much widespread throughout humanity
p.s. I do hope there will be actual caravans like that. Would be awesome to ambush those ...
*steps in the middle of the road*
"Ladies and gentlemen, surrender your valuables at once. There are twenty arrows trained at your bodies at this very moment and it would be extremely unwise to ..."
"FU NUB!" *raises club*
Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew ... thud!
Oops, lost myself there for a bit ...
Yep "Thud" as you drop down dead as you've just been out ganked by another grp of gankers
Heh, I thought that that whole neanderthal group psychology thingy I am guilty of was pretty much widespread throughout humanity
p.s. I do hope there will be actual caravans like that. Would be awesome to ambush those ...
*steps in the middle of the road*
"Ladies and gentlemen, surrender your valuables at once. There are twenty arrows trained at your bodies at this very moment and it would be extremely unwise to ..."
"FU NUB!" *raises club*
Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew ... thud!
Oops, lost myself there for a bit ...
Yep "Thud" as you drop down dead as you've just been out ganked by another grp of gankers
Uhuh, well, it's all in the game. I wouldn't want to play an mmo without that added sense of danger anymore.
It is so much more exciting to know that behind every rock or tree a real person with human, unpredictable skill and behaviour can be lurking then just going about the world where the only thing you have to worry about is minding the agro range of mobs.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Haha this forum is great. So much crying attention.
www.TheGriefer.net - PvP/PK MMO Community, Admin/Manager
Well, it's a nice subject to have a discussion on. People's opinions are pretty much black or white and there is this big psychological component to it as well. In every mmo I played the people are pretty much split between avid pro or avid anti ganking. You don't see those who are inbetween that often. Interesting stuff, not in the last place because it makes this a very important decider for developers as well; do we cater for the 'free-for-all-pvp-happy-crowd' or for the 'pvp-is-ok-but-not-at-times-when-I-don't-feel-like-it people'?
Some developers try to tempt both groups ... and fail ... like WAR did in my opinion.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Isn' this the same as walking into a basketball game and popping the basket ball. Obviously there are some people who have an unhealthy attatchment to thier basket ball?
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
A few things I am surprised nobody brought up (or if they did, i missed, the thread is long)
1) Carebear = (for example) a dark elf healer healing a wood elf in a group in EQ, or a Troll Picking mobs off a Dranei who is about to die in WoW. Cooperating over faction lines. Carebear == anti PK or anti grief.
2) Gank = Fast Kill with opponent unable to retaliate. Gank == grief unless the intention of the aggressor is to cause the victim RL harm.
3) If Balphegor etc are all about a griefer community, why dont they play eve? In eve people make their living being pirates in the literal sense of the word. Picking their targets carefully and etc. There are corporations dedicated to this in eve. Of course in Eve one's reputation is everything and high profile asshats are hunted to the ends of the universe but thousands of eve players exist as pirates even so (I'm not a pirate in eve, I'm a member of a 0.0 alliance so our pvp is on a very large scale)
4) Griefing is nearly always a violation of the end user lisence (EULA) that one must "read" and click to play a game. Wouldnt it be a not smart idea to make a public meeting place of people whose sole purpose is to break the contracts they are consenting to when they log in the game? If I were a victim of a member of that grief website, i bet i could use the website to help get his or her account banned.
Itch
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
We have most of the basic site done. We are currently working on graphic aspects of the site. Once we have everything prepared, we'll upload the altered version of the website and turn on all the forums.
We are still looking for a volunteer to help us with some banners, if anyone is interested.
By the way, everyone is welcome to visit our IRC
irc.quakenet.org:6667
#Darkfall (Unofficial, Unmoderated and largest Darkfall community channel besides the official one on Stratics)
#TGN (Official channel of The Griefer Network)
www.TheGriefer.net - PvP/PK MMO Community, Admin/Manager
This sounds like an interesting social experiment to me. Take all the griefers and send them to a website together and alone...now who the hell are they going to grief?
Like a planet full of vampires...wtf you gonna eat?
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
See, PvP happens.... IN THE GAMES!
Tough concept to understand, huh?
www.TheGriefer.net - PvP/PK MMO Community, Admin/Manager
See, PvP happens.... IN THE GAMES!
Tough concept to understand, huh?
dude, read teh crap going on in your own thread and try that again....seriously...
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
If you play it smart you can real easy grief the griefers or avoid it also very easy.
But you have to look and figureout how believe me, its very annoying for them:P
Grief the Griefers Darkfall have a perfect sytem for that and a world with many posibillitys to annoy the reds easy.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
See, PvP happens.... IN THE GAMES!
Tough concept to understand, huh?
dude, read teh crap going on in your own thread and try that again....seriously...
Yes, this thread is hilarious! It reflects the vast majority of this forum, a bunch of moderator-mommy protected carebears. The people who I'm looking for have and continue to contact me.
Your continues crying about griefers and pkers just helps me keep the thread alive and get the attention of the right people! Thanks for the help!
www.TheGriefer.net - PvP/PK MMO Community, Admin/Manager