Originally posted by Malvolentia The best of WoW is in the past. That's why it's gone from the top 3 on this site all the way down to 21. Proving how accurate this site really is when it comes to judging online games.
Sorry if I just don't agree that this website has their finger on the pulse of the mmo industryor
Then why are you here scrubsauce?
Where else would I find such stimulating and thought provoking discussion on the internet. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to share some of your wisdom with me.
While I personally would vote in Wow in the top tens (6 or 7 most likely) I don't see why you get so upset over this thing... It is just a game and the users are the ones that have voted. The fact is that MMORPG.com is a place for many veteran players and a big percentage of them are not so found about Wow as the people who played Wow as their first game.
As I see it Wow is a good game but I enjoyed other games more, because we don't all have the same taste. There are surely other forums with bigger percentage of Wow players and they are probably rating the game higher.
Why do you care about what other people rate your game as? It is you who play it for fun, not them and MMOs only come down to what you think is fun.
I think this whole thread is a flamebait, if you don't like the numbers, then vote.
There's no rhetoric behind that question, if you really believe that that there are 20, or even 50 better MMORPGs, then that's fine with me.
Its quite like your signature, WoW is the McDonalds of the MMO industry. It tastes good at first, but then you start getting the WoWshits and you start to get greasy pimples and obnoxious love handles after playing it too much.
Well I would like to put this into terms that almost anyone can understand. While WOW is a great game and has attracted droves of followers, it is far from being the best MMO ever released. My personal opinion is that I love Asherons Call, don't as me why I could go on for pages and pages. Others like EVE online, and I play that as well but I still like AC more. Star Wars Galaxies was a better game the WOW but that was when it was first released. Everquest other wise known as Evercrack was also a very popular MMO and I feel was better then WOW.
Why you ask, are these games better, well you see that is a matter of opinion for everyone. I like challenges within a MMO, quests that make you think, groups that actually do something and PvP that gets your heart pounding. Not to mention a death penalty that makes it a bad thing to die. I prefer a sandbox world vs a world that holds your hand from 1 area to another to the next. The problem is the "General" typically non-gaming public has never wanted to put that much time into a game or learn it the way myself and many others do. So they are attracted to WOW's flashy graphics(artsy), its gameplay mechanics, and quick returns for the time spent on it. Not to mention the ability to chat with hundreds of there friends.
Now how to put this into a package so everyone can understand it. Have you ever seen Mega Blox, you know those kids toys, you put them together to form things and kids play with them. You can make them resemble rudimentary objects and shapes, good enough for someones imagination to put together what they are. This is what WOW is, WOW is Mega Blox. Games like AC, EQ, SWG, EVE..etc are Lego, the ability to be much more detailed in what you want to do with your blocks is there, just like in each of these games. however not everyone likes Lego because they don't know how to create the items they want with it or it is to complex so they will stick to Mega Blox.
The point is once you have played WOW, and you play a game that trumps it like AC, EVE...etc you realize what you never want in a MMO again. For me that was this, WOW turns into an FPS at the end game, the whole game up to level cap is just a time sink. The game only begins at level cap and at that point the game is just an FPS.
Originally posted by Malvolentia The best of WoW is in the past. That's why it's gone from the top 3 on this site all the way down to 21. Proving how accurate this site really is when it comes to judging online games.
Sorry if I just don't agree that this website has their finger on the pulse of the mmo industryor
Then why are you here scrubsauce?
Where else would I find such stimulating and thought provoking discussion on the internet. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to share some of your wisdom with me.
Maybe you'll feel more at home on the WoW forums posting QQ with the rest of the mouthbreathers
I only had to scoop out a handful of my infinite wisdom to determine that coming to a site you completely disagree with = pure stupidity
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
No there isn't. There isn't a PC game that is better-selling than WoW. WoW has sold more copies than any other game. Not than any other PC game, not than any other MMO. Than any other game. Ever. eh? What?
WoW = 9.1 million sold (est)
Sims = 16.08 million games sold.
Than any other game ever?......
Top 9 best selling games of all time are over 20 million copies sold.
Number 1 = Wii Sports with a touch over FOURTYTWO MILLION
WoW comes at number 37 on the list.Not even in the top 10 !!!!!!
Thanks T
I love this....
And how many Subscription cards (or equivalent Credit cards are used) per year.
5.000.000. time 6= 30.000.000 PER year. To take your manner of expression: that is 30 MILLION (!) copies sold PER year in US/EU alone.
As Wow is 4 years old: reckon it has "sold" about 100.000.000 subscription cards in the western world ALONE.
Add 1/4 for the other - paid per hour - world systems and you can see Wow has easely made the equivalent of 150.000.000 to 200.000.000 original games/expansions/subsription boxes.
No other SINGLE electronic game - in ANY branch - can give this money earning record.
You all forget that it is the ONLY game being played that much that has to be PAID for EACH month again.
So of course it is the number one of ALL electronic gaming in the last 30 years. Turnover is breath taking.
Only GOOD gameplay value can deliver this. MacDonalds has NOTHING to do with it.
Would YOU play Wii Sports on a monthly fee of ... 15 dollars ? Would YOU play Pac Man on a monthly fee of 15 dollars? Would YOU play Call of Duty even on a monthly fee for 15 dollars?
Of course not. That shows the significance of Wow in electronic gaming in this century.
Think about that before talking about 21st place on a forum where mediocre, unfinished, broken and stuttering games are being promoted.
And guess what: people pay out of free will, no one is holding a GUN to their heads. So of course Wow is the number one in gaming for the history records.
Better be part of that history.
No matter what 600 frustrated kids think about this on mmorpg-nerds.com
Look at what i and the quoted person wrote. "WoW has sold more copies than any other game". It SPECIFICALLY metions games sold. Makes NO mention of GAMECARDS sold or even subscriptions. I would not even begin to argue that WoW isn't the biggest money making game out there BUT. A game card/credit card sub IS NOT THE AMOUNT OF COPIES SOLD !!!!!!! If it was then Bizzard would have what 150,000,000 - 200,000,000 SUBSCRIBERS.
Before you correct someone READ THE POST PROPERLY !!!!!
Thanks T
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
And one more thing. People already do pay monthly subs to play things like CoD and Halo. Or is XBox Live free all of a sudden? It may not be in the region of what Blizz charges but it is still a monthly sub. Do you really think that if MS suddenly put the price up to £20 a month people would suddenly stop using XBL? There might very will be a drop but i doubt it would be that significant (Although with the credit crunch now would not be a good time to do it :P )
Thx T
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
Dude you're having a go at me for all the wrong reasons. I even say there is no way I would argue against WoW being the biggest money making machine the gaming industry has ever seen.
It was all to do with the wording of the post. If it had said the above then i wouldn't have made any sort of comment. As it said COPIES sold then I made the point that it has NOT sold more copies than many other games. BECAUSE IT HASN'T !!!!!
You say that by my logic EvE wouldn't exsist because no one had been to a shop to buy the game. Sorry but paying and then downloading it online is still PURCHASING A COPY !!!!
As to my analogy with XBL. Well the actual internet service you are talking about is FREE. Do you own a 360 and/or subscribe to XBL? You do know the difference between the Silver and Gold packages? One being free the other being £40 a year ? And the fact that pretty much the only difference is the Gold allows you to play multiplayer online and the Silver doesn't ? This to me is a subscription to play a la Blizzard Subs. Or any other sub for that matter to play online games. Without the Sub you can't play online.
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
Originally posted by Malvolentia I only had to scoop out a handful of my infinite wisdom to determine that coming to a site you completely disagree with = pure stupidity
I come here for discussion with people I both agree with and disagree with. Please don't assume to know to much about me and draw conclusions from that ok? I don't completely disagree with this site, just the laughable ratings system here.
Why do I even bother, you have reduced yourself to nothing but insults and attacks after I blew holes in your statement.
There's no rhetoric behind that question, if you really believe that that there are 20, or even 50 better MMORPGs, then that's fine with me.
Its quite like your signature, WoW is the McDonalds of the MMO industry. It tastes good at first, but then you start getting the WoWshits and you start to get greasy pimples and obnoxious love handles after playing it too much.
This smacks of the same idiocy of funcoms "steak and glass of wine" comments.
Ok, you have established wow is mcdonalds in some weak attempt to rub off the negative image fast food has. Now complete the analogy, what makes other games fine dining in comparison.
Simple it became so popular that hating it is in now.
Think a top 5 place would be more realistic.
*Edit* Oh yes the mornic anology of Mcdonalds...
Name me developers that delivered better overall quality then wow. Kinda hard in this industry of half arsed games no? Think blizzard doesn't have as much concurrents then Mcdonalds ;D
Those ratings totally make sense if you've been here awhile and gotten a feel for the type of users we have here--the biggest collection of unreasoning, bored and miserable players ever. A majority of people here are all about wishful thinking and wanting to think that every new game is going to be the one. It leads to delusion.
Too much mmo time does something to people. I think it's permanent.
Originally posted by Malvolentia I only had to scoop out a handful of my infinite wisdom to determine that coming to a site you completely disagree with = pure stupidity
I come here for discussion with people I both agree with and disagree with. Please don't assume to know to much about me and draw conclusions from that ok? I don't completely disagree with this site, just the laughable ratings system here.
Why do I even bother, you have reduced yourself to nothing but insults and attacks after I blew holes in your statement.
You insulted the website and people here rating it cause it didn't fall under your WoW fanboi mantra. That's why I claimed it's stupid to come here if it's angering you. You have yet to even place a dent on anything I said. Only that you arrogantly assume your opinion means more then anyone else's.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
Originally posted by Malvolentia I only had to scoop out a handful of my infinite wisdom to determine that coming to a site you completely disagree with = pure stupidity
I come here for discussion with people I both agree with and disagree with. Please don't assume to know to much about me and draw conclusions from that ok? I don't completely disagree with this site, just the laughable ratings system here.
Why do I even bother, you have reduced yourself to nothing but insults and attacks after I blew holes in your statement.
You insulted the website and people here rating it cause it didn't fall under your WoW fanboi mantra. That's why I claimed it's stupid to come here if it's angering you. You have yet to even place a dent on anything I said. Only that you arrogantly assume your opinion means more then anyone else's.
-----> You forget that LOTRO was voted on the YEARLY promoted poll best mmorpg on this world wide website with ... 600 votes....
Our local football club manages to have more votes on the world wide website (and yes we think that our club of 3rd provincial is better than Manchester United also).
mmorpg.com doesn't represent ANYTHING of significance in NUMBERS.
And because of the Wow hate most people register and visit it a few times and see the most ridiculous statements being made about the number one game of the complete gaming industry (in terms of financial success) on this very site.
So if 600 votes made a winner here, better wake up instead of indulging into a swamp of hate about a game.
The owners and editors of mmorpg.com try to counter this hateful gathering alright (hence they gave WotLK 92% ! - yes here on mmorpg.com - a LOT more than the other mmorpg's).
But it's too late: this site has come to a sad point of no return for ALL mmorpg's and in the end it looses all credibilty - even to the sponsors. The editors know it, but helas it's too late and it is NOT looking good with the upcoming crisis either....
where games WILL be cancelled and old games just being folded.
Just one example? ---> I am a fan of Star Trek, so it is the only other MMORPG I am following now. I would be a FOOL to look at these forums. So I follow the game but not on mmorpg.com. Just look at the failed titles ONE year before they even publish an alfa version.
I guess that's one WoW fanboi's angry opinion on not putting their lil precious up at number 1. It's at number 21 for good reason. Enough people that play MMOs see flaws in it. I think the people coming here probably know more about MMOs then the standard soccer mom playing wow 2 hours a week.
I agree that this game probably gets more angry opinions due it's popularity, but I still wouldn't place this game near the top 10. The game is decent, but most of it's popularity comes from being more accessible to more people.
Me personally, I don't hate WoW. It's just not as good as it once was for me. That's probably why the game has dropped off in ratings here and in many other places. Go check out arenajunkies to see how they feel about the path WoW is on. The cool things about wow are still there but it lacks a lot of sustaining power with Wrath. I'm willing to wager they're going to dropoff in subscriptions. I know it's been said before but I'm saying it here now so mark for later. Wrath isn't like BC in any way and the initial rush is over with.
Like I said, if you're hating this site so bad then move on to the actual game sites I guess. i don't know what to tell you.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
When you find a game like World of Warcraft, there's no time to sit on forums and talk pages upon pages about which game is best and write reviews. That's for people who dislike the game and are trying to recruit others to join theirs instead.
Originally posted by Malvolentia I only had to scoop out a handful of my infinite wisdom to determine that coming to a site you completely disagree with = pure stupidity
I come here for discussion with people I both agree with and disagree with. Please don't assume to know to much about me and draw conclusions from that ok? I don't completely disagree with this site, just the laughable ratings system here.
Why do I even bother, you have reduced yourself to nothing but insults and attacks after I blew holes in your statement.
You insulted the website and people here rating it cause it didn't fall under your WoW fanboi mantra. That's why I claimed it's stupid to come here if it's angering you. You have yet to even place a dent on anything I said. Only that you arrogantly assume your opinion means more then anyone else's.
Feeling insulted? I pointed out facts that this site is not representative of the entire market. You claim it is. I pointed out several high ranking games on the list which are shining examples of failed mmos. You claim the list proves this site validates the state of the mmo genre. My points prove you wrong.
Now you are free to continue throwing personal insults at me or pretending to know my mood and motivations, but that doesn't change facts. It just means you are reduced to nothing more than petty insults instead of discussion.
Let me spell it out for you since you obvious don't get it. I said think the rating system here is a complete joke. However I enjoy many of the topics I read here from the moderators new posts to some of the more interesting posters here. See the difference? Somehow I doubt you will.
Daffid if you love WoW so much why are you not playing your favourite game and you are spending your time to post to this forum? I just like MMO's, there was a topic that MMO's can be something like hobby and I think many players on this website are taking MMO's like hobby. So I think we can consider them as "hardcore" players and they decided that WoW is 21st for them. Thats all.. For everyone is best MMO something else, for me it can never be WoW (even it has more subscribers than other MMO's) because it is realy boring for me, it has some good things but in other games are better and improved or that game has other stuff which is even better than WoW stuff.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
Wow dosnt have good graphics, doesnt have good music, doesnt have goood customer support, doesnt have content added every 2 months, its not free, its not a hardcore pvp game, the quest story is meh at best, the community isnt very agreable, its not a new game.
Its not because every kid plays it that its the best, hell is McDonalds the best restaurant, are Ipods the best MP3s, and is smoking good for you? Its not because everyone does/plays it that its the best.
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
Ok stop being immature and playing the "why are you posting here" card. I post here for the same reason most people do. They are bored with what the market has to offer and really want a new mmo to come out.
I recognize wow for its quality and other factors above other games, but I am ready for a new game. The problem is the market is filled with crap right now. There are a few decent games, but they all play nearly identical to wow minus half the features. Been there done that.
I don't let my yearning for a new type of mmo cloud my objectivity however.
i still love how everyone compare games by their taste,
and you wonder, why we get such games as aoc/war/ra3/200 games by ea/and about another 90% of games released in last 2 years
noone looks at games by quality,polish or content included.. oh look
i like star wars.. etc wow suxs
i like ships , eve ftw wow suxs
i like hardcore pvp darkfall owns ( even if its not out and we all known it wont be out feb 25 ) thus wow suxs
i like ncsoft ( what a shit company ) etc blizzard suxs.. thus i hate wow
i like hardcore.. wow is too easy, i was like lvling 1-20 .. without deaths.. thus wow is easest mmorgp there and thus i hate it
i like original, wow is stealer.. thus i hate it.. why dont you hate your cs/halfile/quake/crysis.. most of them are steales of such old games as delta force /soldier of forture.. probably first real shooters out there..
99% of rts are stealers, from warcraft/dune
all of xboslive/xfire/skype/whatnot .. are stealers from good old windows messenger..
i had fair share of games to play, there are only few quality games that can actually be called games
most of them blow big time.. tho
i dont say wow is best.. but its surely in top 3.. and if you disagree your blind and ignorant idiot
wow have huge content/polish beyond any other game , wow was hard game in first 2-3 years of its life.. it wasnt tbc, or wotlk that made wow grow to 11mln
it had 8 mln before tbc..
its not easy to access to play content that made wow shine, its polish/smoothness of gameplay that made wow what it is now
GO LOTRO FANS , compare wow controls/movements combat to lotro ..
go PVP FANATIcs compare your generic pvp bash fest to wow skills/spells/balance ( yes balance in wotlk is bit off.. but it didnt got to 11 mln just in wotlk )
go visual freaks. compare aoc/lotro graphics to wow .. yes.. they are more detailed.. , but at what cost.. lotro distance rendering is pathetic, lotro aa is pathetic, characters looks retarded
aoc glictches all over place, performance problems ( was at release atleast ) , instanced, 0 colision detection, try moving around city, forgot its name now.
wow is still one of best looking games.. if you actually enable it to full, ( half of ppl dont even turn on full filtering an all other stuff. they sit on theirs 1 aa/af instead of 8, and wondering why game looks bad
im not much of eq/daoc gamer.. as i was still young back then
general problem, is that noone looks at game quality , you either love it or hate it, lets agree half of this forum is disgrunted trolls, those who hate everyone
would you believe me. if i would said ppl actually likes red alert 3, oh sorry, im sure 80% of ppl reading and trolling in this post loves red alert 3, cuz they never had taste of what is real rts game, made with quality, not naked chicks
thats about how wow bashing is..
you guys saying that those ppl didnt try another 20 games above it.. there is reason , they didnt.. 80% of them are totall crap,
worthy games that can be called games.. up to date is.
lotro , eve, wow ,war ( yes yes, its broken unbalanced, you hate or love it, its still have 5x quality of any of those top 20 games ) , aoc ( yes i hate for buying it, im thinking why i wasted 3 months playing it, it lacks that or that.. but it still have 5x quality of any of those top 20 useless games )
you could say l2 comes to this list too, was once good game, maybe few others
but comparing 10 years old game to game that was released year ago. and saying first is better is bullshit..
thats what is called fanatism, asheron game cannot be better than wow, not in quality, not in polish or customer support, you maybe love it more, you maybe hate wow, but it wasnt better game.. it failed after all
its same as saying delta force was better game than crysis or half life, maybe it was for me.. i had like every expansion of that game.. played countless hours 10 years ago, more than played crysis or hl2, was it better game? no it didnt had 10% of quality crysis orhalf life have..
i still love how everyone compare games by their taste, .... ... i dont say wow is best.. but its surely in top 3.. and if you disagree your blind and ignorant idiot ....
You love that everyone compare games by his/her taste. You are not doing it? I think you are doing it too.
And if you are saying that WoW is surely in top 3, I realy have to disagree (i will say it is in top 10 for me maybe), I'm not blind and I think my friends would not say I'm an ignorant idiot. I realy dont know why almost every WoW fan who is posting here cant live with that that other players like something else.... I think that those are ignorants.. We are just saying that for us is not WoW best or one of the best MMOs. Is realy that hard to live with diferent opinions of other players?
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
The only reason why wow could be in any kind of top 3 is because it has a huge pop and there is a lot of stuff ingame. Which deosnt mean that this game has a lot of endgame stuff to do.
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
I'll honestly say WoW is still a good game, better than alot of the terrible grinders I've messed with and I've played about everything at this point. It's just WOTLK compared to Vanilla wow or even BC is a shadow of it's former self. I will never know why they created DKs in such a way to conflict with the use of existing classes, it was just poor balancing and unwise class design. If they were what they were originally slated to be, an anti hot class slash tank that would get eaten by Warlocks then this would not be a debate as far as pvp goes. Instead they turned their would be counter class into court jesters and made burst so high heals didn't matter, again just poor design as far as pvp goes. Also the decision to decide what spec is pvp and which ones are pve were a big mistake, you know full well the Enhancement shamen and Warlocks didn't roll to dungeon raid all the time, that was a slap in the face.
The current devs are strangers on a prebuilt ship, they implement changes based on how they "feel" the game should turn out, only that obviously conflicts with the initial design intent. It's like Spock was replaced by a Homer Simpson. Many of them understand the game engine, but don't know the mechanics behind it, I doubt the current line up could even have created WoW on their own.
WOTLK is like the Phantom Menace, alot of people haven't been able to accept the fact that it's bad yet.
I don't know enough about to population here to predict why WoW is 20 something. That said, in my experience, WoW is very popular amongst those for whom it is their first MMO. It remains popular with those who have tinkered with a handful of other MMO's. Both of these things are true because the core gameplay of WoW is incredibly accessible, and smooth, and many other MMO's fail badly at bringing out a polished game. Blizzard has made an exceptional product for getting people who aren't MMO vets into the genre. We should all be willing to admit this. It's simply true. That said, amongst people who have played many MMOs over many years now, WoW tends to lose out. I suspect that this is a by-product of the very accessibility that makes WoW popular. That accessibility comes at a cost in sophistication, and individuals who are very experienced in the MMO market tend to have more refined tastes in their game choices. To cite an extreme example to make the point, lots of MMO vets are fiercely dedicated to EvE-online, and they are so precisely because it is the most complex, nuanced and sophisticated games made. That said, for many people it is also a real drag. I think what spurs on the WoW-hate crowd is that WoW gets innapropriately used by many as the standard against which all other games get evaluated. WoW is a good game, but to someone with a real passion for MMO's it just seems a bit off to evaluate other games in terms of how well or badly it aproximates WoW. It is this that leads to the McDonalds/Spears comparisons.
Comments
Sorry if I just don't agree that this website has their finger on the pulse of the mmo industryor
Then why are you here scrubsauce?
Where else would I find such stimulating and thought provoking discussion on the internet. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to share some of your wisdom with me.
for fun im going to try to list 20 (i porbably wont make it)
AC1
DaoC
Eve
Ultima online
LotRO
Runescape (if you dont care about graphics) (and only before they got rid of good pvp)
ryzom
Aion (from leaks ive seen)
SWG (pre NGE)
ummm i guess guild wars
-----------------------
games in beta/development
darkfall
DKUO
runes of magic (basiclly the same game with a few more features and ftp)
global agenda looks cool
shit this is really hard....
ummmmmmm warhammer online posibbly??? sure ill add that to the list
thats 15 ummmm 5 more
TCoS
Coh
Cov
2 more damn it.....
if your asian lineage 2
1 more.....ummmmm
atlantica online
there 20 even though half of these either suck or are in development or ive never played but w/e i got 20
HAH i win
While I personally would vote in Wow in the top tens (6 or 7 most likely) I don't see why you get so upset over this thing... It is just a game and the users are the ones that have voted. The fact is that MMORPG.com is a place for many veteran players and a big percentage of them are not so found about Wow as the people who played Wow as their first game.
As I see it Wow is a good game but I enjoyed other games more, because we don't all have the same taste. There are surely other forums with bigger percentage of Wow players and they are probably rating the game higher.
Why do you care about what other people rate your game as? It is you who play it for fun, not them and MMOs only come down to what you think is fun.
I think this whole thread is a flamebait, if you don't like the numbers, then vote.
Its quite like your signature, WoW is the McDonalds of the MMO industry. It tastes good at first, but then you start getting the WoWshits and you start to get greasy pimples and obnoxious love handles after playing it too much.
Well I would like to put this into terms that almost anyone can understand. While WOW is a great game and has attracted droves of followers, it is far from being the best MMO ever released. My personal opinion is that I love Asherons Call, don't as me why I could go on for pages and pages. Others like EVE online, and I play that as well but I still like AC more. Star Wars Galaxies was a better game the WOW but that was when it was first released. Everquest other wise known as Evercrack was also a very popular MMO and I feel was better then WOW.
Why you ask, are these games better, well you see that is a matter of opinion for everyone. I like challenges within a MMO, quests that make you think, groups that actually do something and PvP that gets your heart pounding. Not to mention a death penalty that makes it a bad thing to die. I prefer a sandbox world vs a world that holds your hand from 1 area to another to the next. The problem is the "General" typically non-gaming public has never wanted to put that much time into a game or learn it the way myself and many others do. So they are attracted to WOW's flashy graphics(artsy), its gameplay mechanics, and quick returns for the time spent on it. Not to mention the ability to chat with hundreds of there friends.
Now how to put this into a package so everyone can understand it. Have you ever seen Mega Blox, you know those kids toys, you put them together to form things and kids play with them. You can make them resemble rudimentary objects and shapes, good enough for someones imagination to put together what they are. This is what WOW is, WOW is Mega Blox. Games like AC, EQ, SWG, EVE..etc are Lego, the ability to be much more detailed in what you want to do with your blocks is there, just like in each of these games. however not everyone likes Lego because they don't know how to create the items they want with it or it is to complex so they will stick to Mega Blox.
The point is once you have played WOW, and you play a game that trumps it like AC, EVE...etc you realize what you never want in a MMO again. For me that was this, WOW turns into an FPS at the end game, the whole game up to level cap is just a time sink. The game only begins at level cap and at that point the game is just an FPS.
I hope that makes sense to everyone.
Sorry if I just don't agree that this website has their finger on the pulse of the mmo industryor
Then why are you here scrubsauce?
Where else would I find such stimulating and thought provoking discussion on the internet. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to share some of your wisdom with me.
Maybe you'll feel more at home on the WoW forums posting QQ with the rest of the mouthbreathersI only had to scoop out a handful of my infinite wisdom to determine that coming to a site you completely disagree with = pure stupidity
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
McDonald's: over 1 billion burgers served
I love this....
And how many Subscription cards (or equivalent Credit cards are used) per year.
5.000.000. time 6= 30.000.000 PER year. To take your manner of expression: that is 30 MILLION (!) copies sold PER year in US/EU alone.
As Wow is 4 years old: reckon it has "sold" about 100.000.000 subscription cards in the western world ALONE.
Add 1/4 for the other - paid per hour - world systems and you can see Wow has easely made the equivalent of 150.000.000 to 200.000.000 original games/expansions/subsription boxes.
No other SINGLE electronic game - in ANY branch - can give this money earning record.
You all forget that it is the ONLY game being played that much that has to be PAID for EACH month again.
So of course it is the number one of ALL electronic gaming in the last 30 years. Turnover is breath taking.
Only GOOD gameplay value can deliver this. MacDonalds has NOTHING to do with it.
Would YOU play Wii Sports on a monthly fee of ... 15 dollars ? Would YOU play Pac Man on a monthly fee of 15 dollars? Would YOU play Call of Duty even on a monthly fee for 15 dollars?
Of course not. That shows the significance of Wow in electronic gaming in this century.
Think about that before talking about 21st place on a forum where mediocre, unfinished, broken and stuttering games are being promoted.
And guess what: people pay out of free will, no one is holding a GUN to their heads. So of course Wow is the number one in gaming for the history records.
Better be part of that history.
No matter what 600 frustrated kids think about this on mmorpg-nerds.com
Look at what i and the quoted person wrote. "WoW has sold more copies than any other game". It SPECIFICALLY metions games sold. Makes NO mention of GAMECARDS sold or even subscriptions. I would not even begin to argue that WoW isn't the biggest money making game out there BUT. A game card/credit card sub IS NOT THE AMOUNT OF COPIES SOLD !!!!!!! If it was then Bizzard would have what 150,000,000 - 200,000,000 SUBSCRIBERS.
Before you correct someone READ THE POST PROPERLY !!!!!
Thanks T
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
And one more thing. People already do pay monthly subs to play things like CoD and Halo. Or is XBox Live free all of a sudden? It may not be in the region of what Blizz charges but it is still a monthly sub. Do you really think that if MS suddenly put the price up to £20 a month people would suddenly stop using XBL? There might very will be a drop but i doubt it would be that significant (Although with the credit crunch now would not be a good time to do it :P )
Thx T
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
Dude you're having a go at me for all the wrong reasons. I even say there is no way I would argue against WoW being the biggest money making machine the gaming industry has ever seen.
It was all to do with the wording of the post. If it had said the above then i wouldn't have made any sort of comment. As it said COPIES sold then I made the point that it has NOT sold more copies than many other games. BECAUSE IT HASN'T !!!!!
You say that by my logic EvE wouldn't exsist because no one had been to a shop to buy the game. Sorry but paying and then downloading it online is still PURCHASING A COPY !!!!
As to my analogy with XBL. Well the actual internet service you are talking about is FREE. Do you own a 360 and/or subscribe to XBL? You do know the difference between the Silver and Gold packages? One being free the other being £40 a year ? And the fact that pretty much the only difference is the Gold allows you to play multiplayer online and the Silver doesn't ? This to me is a subscription to play a la Blizzard Subs. Or any other sub for that matter to play online games. Without the Sub you can't play online.
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
I come here for discussion with people I both agree with and disagree with. Please don't assume to know to much about me and draw conclusions from that ok? I don't completely disagree with this site, just the laughable ratings system here.
Why do I even bother, you have reduced yourself to nothing but insults and attacks after I blew holes in your statement.
Its quite like your signature, WoW is the McDonalds of the MMO industry. It tastes good at first, but then you start getting the WoWshits and you start to get greasy pimples and obnoxious love handles after playing it too much.
This smacks of the same idiocy of funcoms "steak and glass of wine" comments.
Ok, you have established wow is mcdonalds in some weak attempt to rub off the negative image fast food has. Now complete the analogy, what makes other games fine dining in comparison.
That is where this stupid analogy fails.
Simple it became so popular that hating it is in now.
Think a top 5 place would be more realistic.
*Edit* Oh yes the mornic anology of Mcdonalds...
Name me developers that delivered better overall quality then wow. Kinda hard in this industry of half arsed games no? Think blizzard doesn't have as much concurrents then Mcdonalds ;D
Those ratings totally make sense if you've been here awhile and gotten a feel for the type of users we have here--the biggest collection of unreasoning, bored and miserable players ever. A majority of people here are all about wishful thinking and wanting to think that every new game is going to be the one. It leads to delusion.
Too much mmo time does something to people. I think it's permanent.
I come here for discussion with people I both agree with and disagree with. Please don't assume to know to much about me and draw conclusions from that ok? I don't completely disagree with this site, just the laughable ratings system here.
Why do I even bother, you have reduced yourself to nothing but insults and attacks after I blew holes in your statement.
You insulted the website and people here rating it cause it didn't fall under your WoW fanboi mantra. That's why I claimed it's stupid to come here if it's angering you. You have yet to even place a dent on anything I said. Only that you arrogantly assume your opinion means more then anyone else's.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
McDonald's: over 1 billion burgers served
I come here for discussion with people I both agree with and disagree with. Please don't assume to know to much about me and draw conclusions from that ok? I don't completely disagree with this site, just the laughable ratings system here.
Why do I even bother, you have reduced yourself to nothing but insults and attacks after I blew holes in your statement.
You insulted the website and people here rating it cause it didn't fall under your WoW fanboi mantra. That's why I claimed it's stupid to come here if it's angering you. You have yet to even place a dent on anything I said. Only that you arrogantly assume your opinion means more then anyone else's.
-----> You forget that LOTRO was voted on the YEARLY promoted poll best mmorpg on this world wide website with ... 600 votes....
Our local football club manages to have more votes on the world wide website (and yes we think that our club of 3rd provincial is better than Manchester United also).
mmorpg.com doesn't represent ANYTHING of significance in NUMBERS.
And because of the Wow hate most people register and visit it a few times and see the most ridiculous statements being made about the number one game of the complete gaming industry (in terms of financial success) on this very site.
So if 600 votes made a winner here, better wake up instead of indulging into a swamp of hate about a game.
The owners and editors of mmorpg.com try to counter this hateful gathering alright (hence they gave WotLK 92% ! - yes here on mmorpg.com - a LOT more than the other mmorpg's).
But it's too late: this site has come to a sad point of no return for ALL mmorpg's and in the end it looses all credibilty - even to the sponsors. The editors know it, but helas it's too late and it is NOT looking good with the upcoming crisis either....
where games WILL be cancelled and old games just being folded.
Just one example? ---> I am a fan of Star Trek, so it is the only other MMORPG I am following now. I would be a FOOL to look at these forums. So I follow the game but not on mmorpg.com. Just look at the failed titles ONE year before they even publish an alfa version.
I guess that's one WoW fanboi's angry opinion on not putting their lil precious up at number 1. It's at number 21 for good reason. Enough people that play MMOs see flaws in it. I think the people coming here probably know more about MMOs then the standard soccer mom playing wow 2 hours a week.
I agree that this game probably gets more angry opinions due it's popularity, but I still wouldn't place this game near the top 10. The game is decent, but most of it's popularity comes from being more accessible to more people.
Me personally, I don't hate WoW. It's just not as good as it once was for me. That's probably why the game has dropped off in ratings here and in many other places. Go check out arenajunkies to see how they feel about the path WoW is on. The cool things about wow are still there but it lacks a lot of sustaining power with Wrath. I'm willing to wager they're going to dropoff in subscriptions. I know it's been said before but I'm saying it here now so mark for later. Wrath isn't like BC in any way and the initial rush is over with.
Like I said, if you're hating this site so bad then move on to the actual game sites I guess. i don't know what to tell you.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
McDonald's: over 1 billion burgers served
When you find a game like World of Warcraft, there's no time to sit on forums and talk pages upon pages about which game is best and write reviews. That's for people who dislike the game and are trying to recruit others to join theirs instead.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
I come here for discussion with people I both agree with and disagree with. Please don't assume to know to much about me and draw conclusions from that ok? I don't completely disagree with this site, just the laughable ratings system here.
Why do I even bother, you have reduced yourself to nothing but insults and attacks after I blew holes in your statement.
You insulted the website and people here rating it cause it didn't fall under your WoW fanboi mantra. That's why I claimed it's stupid to come here if it's angering you. You have yet to even place a dent on anything I said. Only that you arrogantly assume your opinion means more then anyone else's.
Feeling insulted? I pointed out facts that this site is not representative of the entire market. You claim it is. I pointed out several high ranking games on the list which are shining examples of failed mmos. You claim the list proves this site validates the state of the mmo genre. My points prove you wrong.
Now you are free to continue throwing personal insults at me or pretending to know my mood and motivations, but that doesn't change facts. It just means you are reduced to nothing more than petty insults instead of discussion.
Let me spell it out for you since you obvious don't get it. I said think the rating system here is a complete joke. However I enjoy many of the topics I read here from the moderators new posts to some of the more interesting posters here. See the difference? Somehow I doubt you will.
Daffid if you love WoW so much why are you not playing your favourite game and you are spending your time to post to this forum?
I just like MMO's, there was a topic that MMO's can be something like hobby and I think many players on this website are taking MMO's like hobby. So I think we can consider them as "hardcore" players and they decided that WoW is 21st for them. Thats all.. For everyone is best MMO something else, for me it can never be WoW (even it has more subscribers than other MMO's) because it is realy boring for me, it has some good things but in other games are better and improved or that game has other stuff which is even better than WoW stuff.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
Wow dosnt have good graphics, doesnt have good music, doesnt have goood customer support, doesnt have content added every 2 months, its not free, its not a hardcore pvp game, the quest story is meh at best, the community isnt very agreable, its not a new game.
Its not because every kid plays it that its the best, hell is McDonalds the best restaurant, are Ipods the best MP3s, and is smoking good for you? Its not because everyone does/plays it that its the best.
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
Ok stop being immature and playing the "why are you posting here" card. I post here for the same reason most people do. They are bored with what the market has to offer and really want a new mmo to come out.
I recognize wow for its quality and other factors above other games, but I am ready for a new game. The problem is the market is filled with crap right now. There are a few decent games, but they all play nearly identical to wow minus half the features. Been there done that.
I don't let my yearning for a new type of mmo cloud my objectivity however.
i still love how everyone compare games by their taste,
and you wonder, why we get such games as aoc/war/ra3/200 games by ea/and about another 90% of games released in last 2 years
noone looks at games by quality,polish or content included.. oh look
i like star wars.. etc wow suxs
i like ships , eve ftw wow suxs
i like hardcore pvp darkfall owns ( even if its not out and we all known it wont be out feb 25 ) thus wow suxs
i like ncsoft ( what a shit company ) etc blizzard suxs.. thus i hate wow
i like hardcore.. wow is too easy, i was like lvling 1-20 .. without deaths.. thus wow is easest mmorgp there and thus i hate it
i like original, wow is stealer.. thus i hate it.. why dont you hate your cs/halfile/quake/crysis.. most of them are steales of such old games as delta force /soldier of forture.. probably first real shooters out there..
99% of rts are stealers, from warcraft/dune
all of xboslive/xfire/skype/whatnot .. are stealers from good old windows messenger..
i had fair share of games to play, there are only few quality games that can actually be called games
most of them blow big time.. tho
i dont say wow is best.. but its surely in top 3.. and if you disagree your blind and ignorant idiot
wow have huge content/polish beyond any other game , wow was hard game in first 2-3 years of its life.. it wasnt tbc, or wotlk that made wow grow to 11mln
it had 8 mln before tbc..
its not easy to access to play content that made wow shine, its polish/smoothness of gameplay that made wow what it is now
GO LOTRO FANS , compare wow controls/movements combat to lotro ..
go PVP FANATIcs compare your generic pvp bash fest to wow skills/spells/balance ( yes balance in wotlk is bit off.. but it didnt got to 11 mln just in wotlk )
go visual freaks. compare aoc/lotro graphics to wow .. yes.. they are more detailed.. , but at what cost.. lotro distance rendering is pathetic, lotro aa is pathetic, characters looks retarded
aoc glictches all over place, performance problems ( was at release atleast ) , instanced, 0 colision detection, try moving around city, forgot its name now.
wow is still one of best looking games.. if you actually enable it to full, ( half of ppl dont even turn on full filtering an all other stuff. they sit on theirs 1 aa/af instead of 8, and wondering why game looks bad
im not much of eq/daoc gamer.. as i was still young back then
general problem, is that noone looks at game quality , you either love it or hate it, lets agree half of this forum is disgrunted trolls, those who hate everyone
would you believe me. if i would said ppl actually likes red alert 3, oh sorry, im sure 80% of ppl reading and trolling in this post loves red alert 3, cuz they never had taste of what is real rts game, made with quality, not naked chicks
thats about how wow bashing is..
you guys saying that those ppl didnt try another 20 games above it.. there is reason , they didnt.. 80% of them are totall crap,
worthy games that can be called games.. up to date is.
lotro , eve, wow ,war ( yes yes, its broken unbalanced, you hate or love it, its still have 5x quality of any of those top 20 games ) , aoc ( yes i hate for buying it, im thinking why i wasted 3 months playing it, it lacks that or that.. but it still have 5x quality of any of those top 20 useless games )
you could say l2 comes to this list too, was once good game, maybe few others
but comparing 10 years old game to game that was released year ago. and saying first is better is bullshit..
thats what is called fanatism, asheron game cannot be better than wow, not in quality, not in polish or customer support, you maybe love it more, you maybe hate wow, but it wasnt better game.. it failed after all
its same as saying delta force was better game than crysis or half life, maybe it was for me.. i had like every expansion of that game.. played countless hours 10 years ago, more than played crysis or hl2, was it better game? no it didnt had 10% of quality crysis orhalf life have..
You love that everyone compare games by his/her taste. You are not doing it? I think you are doing it too.
And if you are saying that WoW is surely in top 3, I realy have to disagree (i will say it is in top 10 for me maybe), I'm not blind and I think my friends would not say I'm an ignorant idiot.
I realy dont know why almost every WoW fan who is posting here cant live with that that other players like something else.... I think that those are ignorants.. 
We are just saying that for us is not WoW best or one of the best MMOs. Is realy that hard to live with diferent opinions of other players?
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
The only reason why wow could be in any kind of top 3 is because it has a huge pop and there is a lot of stuff ingame. Which deosnt mean that this game has a lot of endgame stuff to do.
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
I'll honestly say WoW is still a good game, better than alot of the terrible grinders I've messed with and I've played about everything at this point. It's just WOTLK compared to Vanilla wow or even BC is a shadow of it's former self. I will never know why they created DKs in such a way to conflict with the use of existing classes, it was just poor balancing and unwise class design. If they were what they were originally slated to be, an anti hot class slash tank that would get eaten by Warlocks then this would not be a debate as far as pvp goes. Instead they turned their would be counter class into court jesters and made burst so high heals didn't matter, again just poor design as far as pvp goes. Also the decision to decide what spec is pvp and which ones are pve were a big mistake, you know full well the Enhancement shamen and Warlocks didn't roll to dungeon raid all the time, that was a slap in the face.
The current devs are strangers on a prebuilt ship, they implement changes based on how they "feel" the game should turn out, only that obviously conflicts with the initial design intent. It's like Spock was replaced by a Homer Simpson. Many of them understand the game engine, but don't know the mechanics behind it, I doubt the current line up could even have created WoW on their own.
WOTLK is like the Phantom Menace, alot of people haven't been able to accept the fact that it's bad yet.
I don't know enough about to population here to predict why WoW is 20 something. That said, in my experience, WoW is very popular amongst those for whom it is their first MMO. It remains popular with those who have tinkered with a handful of other MMO's. Both of these things are true because the core gameplay of WoW is incredibly accessible, and smooth, and many other MMO's fail badly at bringing out a polished game. Blizzard has made an exceptional product for getting people who aren't MMO vets into the genre. We should all be willing to admit this. It's simply true. That said, amongst people who have played many MMOs over many years now, WoW tends to lose out. I suspect that this is a by-product of the very accessibility that makes WoW popular. That accessibility comes at a cost in sophistication, and individuals who are very experienced in the MMO market tend to have more refined tastes in their game choices. To cite an extreme example to make the point, lots of MMO vets are fiercely dedicated to EvE-online, and they are so precisely because it is the most complex, nuanced and sophisticated games made. That said, for many people it is also a real drag. I think what spurs on the WoW-hate crowd is that WoW gets innapropriately used by many as the standard against which all other games get evaluated. WoW is a good game, but to someone with a real passion for MMO's it just seems a bit off to evaluate other games in terms of how well or badly it aproximates WoW. It is this that leads to the McDonalds/Spears comparisons.