Were they giving randomized data to academic researchers who weren't going to use it for any commercial use? Theoretically, the idea is that if you remove names and so forth but maintain some more generic features, you can maintain the privacy of individual players while still learning a lot about the sort of people who play online games.
Yahoo tried that some years back. (Or at least I think it was Yahoo.) It turned out that they didn't randomize the data enough. The problem is that some people type their own names into search engines a lot, and having a list of all the searches by one person who searched for his own name a lot gives you a pretty good idea of whose searches they are. That got some bigwigs at the company fired.
I had a friend who worked for Microsoft studying the data from some Microsoft products. He said that based on what happened at Yahoo, if he were to be malicious, he could not only get himself fired, but he could get his boss fired, too.
Were they giving randomized data to academic researchers who weren't going to use it for any commercial use? Theoretically, the idea is that if you remove names and so forth but maintain some more generic features, you can maintain the privacy of individual players while still learning a lot about the sort of people who play online games.
Yahoo tried that some years back. (Or at least I think it was Yahoo.) It turned out that they didn't randomize the data enough. The problem is that some people type their own names into search engines a lot, and having a list of all the searches by one person who searched for his own name a lot gives you a pretty good idea of whose searches they are. That got some bigwigs at the company fired.
I had a friend who worked for Microsoft studying the data from some Microsoft products. He said that based on what happened at Yahoo, if he were to be malicious, he could not only get himself fired, but he could get his boss fired, too.
You're proving more that the industry is bugged with too many ways for malicious data to be accessed (With the only penalty being outcasted from society) rather then justifying the data access itself
Weird. And I haven't played EQ2 in years! It's funny, I don't think I interacted in any way with anyone during my stay in EQ2. Heh, they'll see I'm an Urban Hermit!
What Happened With SWG Went Down YEARS AGO! Please Try To Stop Whining About It In Every Thread I Read. Mourn It, And Finally MOVE ON With Your Lives! Thanks A Heap.
Yeah, my reaction was the same as Waterlily's, but my bias eventually softened my anger. The sociology & psychology information was pretty darn fascinating to me, but I study this stuff.. In the end though - technicalities aside - what they seem to have done was wrong. To get the information about people within a particular proximity (especially close proximity as mentioned in the article) talking to one another they would need to have at least general address information for the people behind those character names. That's not non-personal aggregate information, that's rather specific. As curious as I am, the end result doesn't justify SOE's behavior. We need more information about how privacy was either respected or abused.
What bothers me is the "tell" messages between players. regardless if it's a smart thing to do or not, people do tell each other rather personal info, including everything from phone numbers to addresses to account names/passwords to credit card numbers. All of which apparently are available for these "scientist" to peruse through.
Why would you send a personal tell to anyone with a credit card number? Everyone knows that MMO companies log chat so use your noggin before you blat out personal information over a virtual chat.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
Yeah, my reaction was the same as Waterlily's, but my bias eventually softened my anger. The sociology & psychology information was pretty darn fascinating to me, but I study this stuff.. In the end though - technicalities aside - what they seem to have done was wrong. To get the information about people within a particular proximity (especially close proximity as mentioned in the article) talking to one another they would need to have at least general address information for the people behind those character names. That's not non-personal aggregate information, that's rather specific. As curious as I am, the end result doesn't justify SOE's behavior. We need more information about how privacy was either respected or abused.
What bothers me is the "tell" messages between players. regardless if it's a smart thing to do or not, people do tell each other rather personal info, including everything from phone numbers to addresses to account names/passwords to credit card numbers. All of which apparently are available for these "scientist" to peruse through.
Why would you send a personal tell to anyone with a credit card number? Everyone knows that MMO companies log chat so use your noggin before you blat out personal information over a virtual chat.
I think less of the argument is over the actual content of the messages they logged. Isn't this more about the fact we play a MMORPG for enjoyment, and having big brother or some person watching what we say at all times being a bit excessive? It's practiced during certain situations, but being 24/7 takes a lot of the fun out.
Yeah, my reaction was the same as Waterlily's, but my bias eventually softened my anger. The sociology & psychology information was pretty darn fascinating to me, but I study this stuff.. In the end though - technicalities aside - what they seem to have done was wrong. To get the information about people within a particular proximity (especially close proximity as mentioned in the article) talking to one another they would need to have at least general address information for the people behind those character names. That's not non-personal aggregate information, that's rather specific. As curious as I am, the end result doesn't justify SOE's behavior. We need more information about how privacy was either respected or abused.
What bothers me is the "tell" messages between players. regardless if it's a smart thing to do or not, people do tell each other rather personal info, including everything from phone numbers to addresses to account names/passwords to credit card numbers. All of which apparently are available for these "scientist" to peruse through.
Not only that but what about the tells reguarding sex in the game.
Female friend of mine asked if ever did it game,i said no,thought about it though,then she went on to tell me that her and her hubby to be did the phone and in game tells sex in the game.
First off if you want to complain then first hold your hands up if you have a facebook/myspace/bebo/whatever the latest crap is
They ALL SELL your data. Sell not give a away. Ever noticed how you get a lot of WoW spam and currently seems to be Vangaurd? Yeah gee I wonder who's scanned your profile for ads. Hmm.
Hands up if you USE google. Have google mail. Youtube. Anything regarding google at all. That is all stored. EVERY SINGLE INTERACTION. It is also all sold. For an insanely high profit margin. Oh not to mention if you read the fine print google sends EVERYTHING you do to the US govt.
SO if you use any of the above then shut up. Dont complain. You have no right to. Oh wait WE ALL READ THE TOS DIDNT WE? No? Glossed over that bit where you agree to this? Yeah? Thought so.
Show me the section in the EULA/ToS for EQ2 or SWG where I agreed to be part of a science experiment. Then I'll agree with you.
I dont play any SoE games thus I have no SoE ToS to read for your lazy ass. Trust me its in there. There will be many, many get out clauses that say they can. Just because you haven't read it for yourself I should be your lawyer? However I can assure you that it will go something along these lines:
SoE may monitor, collect, log, parse and display by any means the interections which you have during the course of gameplay. SoE may log your IP and associated data. SoE reserves the right to distribute this data by any means deemed appropriate and/or necessary. SoE may at times use or sell this data. SoE will not knowingly send personal data (Personal data is defined as such: ...) However It is up to the End User's discretion as to which data they choose to send via in game message systems such as /tell or mail box features as SoE cannot parse all data saved and thus SoE recommend never to send personal in formation such as address via in-game methods.
Put up or shut up at the end of the day!
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
Yeah, my reaction was the same as Waterlily's, but my bias eventually softened my anger. The sociology & psychology information was pretty darn fascinating to me, but I study this stuff.. In the end though - technicalities aside - what they seem to have done was wrong. To get the information about people within a particular proximity (especially close proximity as mentioned in the article) talking to one another they would need to have at least general address information for the people behind those character names. That's not non-personal aggregate information, that's rather specific. As curious as I am, the end result doesn't justify SOE's behavior. We need more information about how privacy was either respected or abused.
What bothers me is the "tell" messages between players. regardless if it's a smart thing to do or not, people do tell each other rather personal info, including everything from phone numbers to addresses to account names/passwords to credit card numbers. All of which apparently are available for these "scientist" to peruse through.
Why would you send a personal tell to anyone with a credit card number? Everyone knows that MMO companies log chat so use your noggin before you blat out personal information over a virtual chat.
I think less of the argument is over the actual content of the messages they logged. Isn't this more about the fact we play a MMORPG for enjoyment, and having big brother or some person watching what we say at all times being a bit excessive? It's practiced during certain situations, but being 24/7 takes a lot of the fun out.
Don't be so naïve, because of the wonderful patriot act you could have a phone tap as well. Seriously, someone being given in game chat logs should be the least of a person’s worries . . . unless you have something to hid.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
First off if you want to complain then first hold your hands up if you have a facebook/myspace/bebo/whatever the latest crap is
They ALL SELL your data. Sell not give a away. Ever noticed how you get a lot of WoW spam and currently seems to be Vangaurd? Yeah gee I wonder who's scanned your profile for ads. Hmm.
Hands up if you USE google. Have google mail. Youtube. Anything regarding google at all. That is all stored. EVERY SINGLE INTERACTION. It is also all sold. For an insanely high profit margin. Oh not to mention if you read the fine print google sends EVERYTHING you do to the US govt.
SO if you use any of the above then shut up. Dont complain. You have no right to. Oh wait WE ALL READ THE TOS DIDNT WE? No? Glossed over that bit where you agree to this? Yeah? Thought so.
Show me the section in the EULA/ToS for EQ2 or SWG where I agreed to be part of a science experiment. Then I'll agree with you.
I dont play any SoE games thus I have no SoE ToS to read for your lazy ass. Trust me its in there. There will be many, many get out clauses that say they can. Just because you haven't read it for yourself I should be your lawyer? However I can assure you that it will go something along these lines:
SoE may monitor, collect, log, parse and display by any means the interections which you have during the course of gameplay. SoE may log your IP and associated data. SoE reserves the right to distribute this data by any means deemed appropriate and/or necessary. SoE may at times use or sell this data. SoE will not knowingly send personal data (Personal data is defined as such: ...) However It is up to the End User's discretion as to which data they choose to send via in game message systems such as /tell or mail box features as SoE cannot parse all data saved and thus SoE recommend never to send personal in formation such as address via in-game methods.
Put up or shut up at the end of the day!
The EULA and ToS Define what SoE Can collect and take from ingame, what they can share is up to the Privacy Policy
Yeah, my reaction was the same as Waterlily's, but my bias eventually softened my anger. The sociology & psychology information was pretty darn fascinating to me, but I study this stuff.. In the end though - technicalities aside - what they seem to have done was wrong. To get the information about people within a particular proximity (especially close proximity as mentioned in the article) talking to one another they would need to have at least general address information for the people behind those character names. That's not non-personal aggregate information, that's rather specific. As curious as I am, the end result doesn't justify SOE's behavior. We need more information about how privacy was either respected or abused.
What bothers me is the "tell" messages between players. regardless if it's a smart thing to do or not, people do tell each other rather personal info, including everything from phone numbers to addresses to account names/passwords to credit card numbers. All of which apparently are available for these "scientist" to peruse through.
Why would you send a personal tell to anyone with a credit card number? Everyone knows that MMO companies log chat so use your noggin before you blat out personal information over a virtual chat.
I think less of the argument is over the actual content of the messages they logged. Isn't this more about the fact we play a MMORPG for enjoyment, and having big brother or some person watching what we say at all times being a bit excessive? It's practiced during certain situations, but being 24/7 takes a lot of the fun out.
Don't be so naïve, because of the wonderful patriot act you could have a phone tap as well. Seriously, someone being given in game chat logs should be the least of a person’s worries . . . unless you have something to hid.
I'm not being naïve, I'm simply stating that you shouldn't be ignorant to data collection that is given to third parties.
Yeah, my reaction was the same as Waterlily's, but my bias eventually softened my anger. The sociology & psychology information was pretty darn fascinating to me, but I study this stuff.. In the end though - technicalities aside - what they seem to have done was wrong. To get the information about people within a particular proximity (especially close proximity as mentioned in the article) talking to one another they would need to have at least general address information for the people behind those character names. That's not non-personal aggregate information, that's rather specific. As curious as I am, the end result doesn't justify SOE's behavior. We need more information about how privacy was either respected or abused.
What bothers me is the "tell" messages between players. regardless if it's a smart thing to do or not, people do tell each other rather personal info, including everything from phone numbers to addresses to account names/passwords to credit card numbers. All of which apparently are available for these "scientist" to peruse through.
Why would you send a personal tell to anyone with a credit card number? Everyone knows that MMO companies log chat so use your noggin before you blat out personal information over a virtual chat.
I wouldn't. But does that mean everyone else wouldn't as well?
Wife playing at home: "Honey, what's the new credit card number? I want to order this StationCash item."
Husband on business trip playing on laptop in motel: "It's 5555 5555 5555 5555. Security code is 555. Exp 10/10."
Wife: "Thanks, dear. Give me a few minutes to order then we'll find some people to raid with."
Like I said, doesn't matter if it's a smart thing to do or not. The point is that it's bad enough for hackers to intercept the chat logs, it's worse for the company to just hand 'em over freely to anyone who asks.
First off if you want to complain then first hold your hands up if you have a facebook/myspace/bebo/whatever the latest crap is
They ALL SELL your data. Sell not give a away. Ever noticed how you get a lot of WoW spam and currently seems to be Vangaurd? Yeah gee I wonder who's scanned your profile for ads. Hmm.
Hands up if you USE google. Have google mail. Youtube. Anything regarding google at all. That is all stored. EVERY SINGLE INTERACTION. It is also all sold. For an insanely high profit margin. Oh not to mention if you read the fine print google sends EVERYTHING you do to the US govt.
SO if you use any of the above then shut up. Dont complain. You have no right to. Oh wait WE ALL READ THE TOS DIDNT WE? No? Glossed over that bit where you agree to this? Yeah? Thought so.
Show me the section in the EULA/ToS for EQ2 or SWG where I agreed to be part of a science experiment. Then I'll agree with you.
I dont play any SoE games thus I have no SoE ToS to read for your lazy ass. Trust me its in there. There will be many, many get out clauses that say they can. Just because you haven't read it for yourself I should be your lawyer? However I can assure you that it will go something along these lines:
SoE may monitor, collect, log, parse and display by any means the interections which you have during the course of gameplay. SoE may log your IP and associated data. SoE reserves the right to distribute this data by any means deemed appropriate and/or necessary. SoE may at times use or sell this data. SoE will not knowingly send personal data (Personal data is defined as such: ...) However It is up to the End User's discretion as to which data they choose to send via in game message systems such as /tell or mail box features as SoE cannot parse all data saved and thus SoE recommend never to send personal in formation such as address via in-game methods.
Put up or shut up at the end of the day!
So far, you've done neither, lazy ass. It was you who said it's in there, not me. Like I said, find the part I asked for, or stop talking about what you even admit you don't know.
I wouldn't. But does that mean everyone else wouldn't as well? Wife playing at home: "Honey, what's the new credit card number? I want to order this StationCash item." Husband on business trip playing on laptop in motel: "It's 5555 5555 5555 5555. Security code is 555. Exp 10/10." Wife: "Thanks, dear. Give me a few minutes to order then we'll find some people to raid with."
Like I said, doesn't matter if it's a smart thing to do or not. The point is that it's bad enough for hackers to intercept the chat logs, it's worse for the company to just hand 'em over freely to anyone who asks.
I do agree with your point about handing over logs but as a consumer people should be a little bit more cautious. I have sent a lot of miss-tells in my MMO years so I wouldn’t even dream of sending out credit card info or social security numbers even if it is intended as a PM.
Just to extend onto my other post about phone taps and such. I believe it was 2005 that it was noted that the majority of cellphones were equipped with a basic tracking signal. Be it GPS or triangulation via the towers, someone always knows where you are if you are carrying a cellphone.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
First off if you want to complain then first hold your hands up if you have a facebook/myspace/bebo/whatever the latest crap is
They ALL SELL your data. Sell not give a away. Ever noticed how you get a lot of WoW spam and currently seems to be Vangaurd? Yeah gee I wonder who's scanned your profile for ads. Hmm.
Hands up if you USE google. Have google mail. Youtube. Anything regarding google at all. That is all stored. EVERY SINGLE INTERACTION. It is also all sold. For an insanely high profit margin. Oh not to mention if you read the fine print google sends EVERYTHING you do to the US govt.
SO if you use any of the above then shut up. Dont complain. You have no right to. Oh wait WE ALL READ THE TOS DIDNT WE? No? Glossed over that bit where you agree to this? Yeah? Thought so.
Show me the section in the EULA/ToS for EQ2 or SWG where I agreed to be part of a science experiment. Then I'll agree with you.
I dont play any SoE games thus I have no SoE ToS to read for your lazy ass. Trust me its in there. There will be many, many get out clauses that say they can. Just because you haven't read it for yourself I should be your lawyer? However I can assure you that it will go something along these lines:
SoE may monitor, collect, log, parse and display by any means the interections which you have during the course of gameplay. SoE may log your IP and associated data. SoE reserves the right to distribute this data by any means deemed appropriate and/or necessary. SoE may at times use or sell this data. SoE will not knowingly send personal data (Personal data is defined as such: ...) However It is up to the End User's discretion as to which data they choose to send via in game message systems such as /tell or mail box features as SoE cannot parse all data saved and thus SoE recommend never to send personal in formation such as address via in-game methods.
Put up or shut up at the end of the day!
So far, you've done neither, lazy ass. It was you who said it's in there, not me. Like I said, find the part I asked for, or stop talking about what you even admit you don't know.
Why would SoE violate the law and give away this data in violation of their own ToS/EULA/PP. Technically, giving away the data tells the lazy that its in there, however someone can nitpick it for contradictions if they wanted.
@Zorvan -- But im not offended by these actions. Im trying to help the slow people like you who dont get it. I *know* my data is bring sold by various companies. Get over it. Oh and refusal of YOU who does aparently play to go rad it, is not proof that it isnt there. It is. If you genuinely think it SINT just cos some anonymous guy on a forum said it IS, then I really genuinely pity you.
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
Yeah, my reaction was the same as Waterlily's, but my bias eventually softened my anger. The sociology & psychology information was pretty darn fascinating to me, but I study this stuff.. In the end though - technicalities aside - what they seem to have done was wrong. To get the information about people within a particular proximity (especially close proximity as mentioned in the article) talking to one another they would need to have at least general address information for the people behind those character names. That's not non-personal aggregate information, that's rather specific. As curious as I am, the end result doesn't justify SOE's behavior. We need more information about how privacy was either respected or abused.
What bothers me is the "tell" messages between players. regardless if it's a smart thing to do or not, people do tell each other rather personal info, including everything from phone numbers to addresses to account names/passwords to credit card numbers. All of which apparently are available for these "scientist" to peruse through.
Why would you send a personal tell to anyone with a credit card number? Everyone knows that MMO companies log chat so use your noggin before you blat out personal information over a virtual chat.
I wouldn't. But does that mean everyone else wouldn't as well?
Wife playing at home: "Honey, what's the new credit card number? I want to order this StationCash item."
Husband on business trip playing on laptop in motel: "It's 5555 5555 5555 5555. Security code is 555. Exp 10/10."
Wife: "Thanks, dear. Give me a few minutes to order then we'll find some people to raid with."
Like I said, doesn't matter if it's a smart thing to do or not. The point is that it's bad enough for hackers to intercept the chat logs, it's worse for the company to just hand 'em over freely to anyone who asks.
Let's expand on this. What if Email and IM services decided to start releasing private data. I can gaurentee there is a much higher percentage of data of this sort in those contents. The situation is the same, it's violating our personal rights to privacy. They do exist on the internet
I found what they can and can't which is anything and everything in the universe according too EQ2's ToS,things is they contradict themselves on the security part of your account which you are responsible for not giveing anything out on mainly your PW.But they can sell anything and everything.
F. SECURITY OF YOUR ACCOUNT
It is important that you remember your Station username and password and that you keep your Station username, password and any security questions in a safe offline location.
If you forget your Station username or password and have not provided us with any security questions and answers, you may not be able to access the Member Materials and/or your Station Account.
You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Station Account and for all activities that occur through the use of your Station Account. You agree to: (i) immediately notify SOE of any unauthorized use of your Station Account or any other breach of security, and (ii) ensure that you secure your Station Account and computer from third party access. SOE will not be liable for any loss or damage arising from your failure to comply with this Section. You may be issued a new password or required to change your password from time to time.
We have implemented physical, electronic and managerial procedures in order to help safeguard and prevent unauthorized access, use and/or disclosure of your personal information. Although we use reasonable efforts to safeguard the security of your personal information, transmissions made on or through the Internet and personal information stored on our servers or the servers of third parties that we use are vulnerable to attack and cannot be guaranteed to be secure. In addition, submissions made via e-mail are not protected by encryption and are vulnerable to interception during transmission.
C. RIGHTS IN USER CONTENT
Any and all User Content submitted (e.g., by uploading or transmitting) to SOE shall be deemed, and shall remain, the property of SOE and/or its Third Party Providers from the moment of creation. Accordingly, SOE shall exclusively own all now known or hereafter existing copyrights and all other intellectual property rights to all User Content of every kind and nature, in perpetuity, throughout the universe. To the extent that any of the above may be void or unenforceable, you agree that any and all User Content is hereby irrevocably assigned to SOE and/or its Third Party Providers, together with all intellectual property rights therein. To the extent any of the User Content is not assignable, by submitting User Content to an SOE Communication Feature, you agree that SOE and/or its Third Party Providers shall be irrevocably entitled to, throughout the universe and in perpetuity, use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, broadcast, license, perform, post, sell, translate, create derivative works from and distribute any User Content for any purpose whatsoever, commercial or otherwise, in any medium now known or hereafter devised, without compensation or credit to the provider of the User Content. You also give up any claim that any use by SOE and/or its Third Party Providers of any User Content violates any of your rights, including but not limited to moral rights, privacy rights, rights to publicity, proprietary or other rights, and/or rights to credit for the material or ideas set forth therein.
I wouldn't. But does that mean everyone else wouldn't as well? Wife playing at home: "Honey, what's the new credit card number? I want to order this StationCash item." Husband on business trip playing on laptop in motel: "It's 5555 5555 5555 5555. Security code is 555. Exp 10/10." Wife: "Thanks, dear. Give me a few minutes to order then we'll find some people to raid with."
Like I said, doesn't matter if it's a smart thing to do or not. The point is that it's bad enough for hackers to intercept the chat logs, it's worse for the company to just hand 'em over freely to anyone who asks.
I do agree with your point about handing over logs but as a consumer people should be a little bit more cautious. I have sent a lot of miss-tells in my MMO years so I wouldn’t even dream of sending out credit card info or social security numbers even if it is intended as a PM.
Just to extend onto my other post about phone taps and such. I believe it was 2005 that it was noted that the majority of cellphones were equipped with a basic tracking signal. Be it GPS or triangulation via the towers, someone always knows where you are if you are carrying a cellphone.
Cell phones were made trackable for emergency response "9-1-1" calls. Not only to make it easier for paramedics/police to find you in an emergency, but also to stop the anonymous prank calls that were becoming very prevelant.
And yes, due to the Patriot Act, as well as other Homeland Security policies enacted, the government monitoring you is fairly easy and common.
However, last I checked, SOE isn't a government law enforcement agency.
Everything you do in the game with and including the characters you make are property of SOE. Nothing, beyond the box you bought in the store, belongs to you. They are not responsible for customers who agree to their terms and then express moral outrage later. Anyone who is upset with this has only themselves to be mad at.
Before you all discuss the EULA back and forth, afaik that's not a legal binding document.
Another thing is that in every European country theres a law which forbids statements that the majority of people will not read to be used against you later in court, if said info isn't straightforward and contradicts what one would expect.
You would expect personal tells or whispers in-game to stay confidential because a lot of that 60TB data is going to be private data.
Comments
That coffin must be more metal than wood now
Were they giving randomized data to academic researchers who weren't going to use it for any commercial use? Theoretically, the idea is that if you remove names and so forth but maintain some more generic features, you can maintain the privacy of individual players while still learning a lot about the sort of people who play online games.
Yahoo tried that some years back. (Or at least I think it was Yahoo.) It turned out that they didn't randomize the data enough. The problem is that some people type their own names into search engines a lot, and having a list of all the searches by one person who searched for his own name a lot gives you a pretty good idea of whose searches they are. That got some bigwigs at the company fired.
I had a friend who worked for Microsoft studying the data from some Microsoft products. He said that based on what happened at Yahoo, if he were to be malicious, he could not only get himself fired, but he could get his boss fired, too.
You're proving more that the industry is bugged with too many ways for malicious data to be accessed (With the only penalty being outcasted from society) rather then justifying the data access itself
Weird. And I haven't played EQ2 in years! It's funny, I don't think I interacted in any way with anyone during my stay in EQ2. Heh, they'll see I'm an Urban Hermit!
What Happened With SWG Went Down YEARS AGO! Please Try To Stop Whining About It In Every Thread I Read. Mourn It, And Finally MOVE ON With Your Lives! Thanks A Heap.
What bothers me is the "tell" messages between players. regardless if it's a smart thing to do or not, people do tell each other rather personal info, including everything from phone numbers to addresses to account names/passwords to credit card numbers. All of which apparently are available for these "scientist" to peruse through.
Why would you send a personal tell to anyone with a credit card number? Everyone knows that MMO companies log chat so use your noggin before you blat out personal information over a virtual chat.
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
What bothers me is the "tell" messages between players. regardless if it's a smart thing to do or not, people do tell each other rather personal info, including everything from phone numbers to addresses to account names/passwords to credit card numbers. All of which apparently are available for these "scientist" to peruse through.
Why would you send a personal tell to anyone with a credit card number? Everyone knows that MMO companies log chat so use your noggin before you blat out personal information over a virtual chat.
I think less of the argument is over the actual content of the messages they logged. Isn't this more about the fact we play a MMORPG for enjoyment, and having big brother or some person watching what we say at all times being a bit excessive? It's practiced during certain situations, but being 24/7 takes a lot of the fun out.
What bothers me is the "tell" messages between players. regardless if it's a smart thing to do or not, people do tell each other rather personal info, including everything from phone numbers to addresses to account names/passwords to credit card numbers. All of which apparently are available for these "scientist" to peruse through.
Not only that but what about the tells reguarding sex in the game.
Female friend of mine asked if ever did it game,i said no,thought about it though,then she went on to tell me that her and her hubby to be did the phone and in game tells sex in the game.
Show me the section in the EULA/ToS for EQ2 or SWG where I agreed to be part of a science experiment. Then I'll agree with you.
I dont play any SoE games thus I have no SoE ToS to read for your lazy ass. Trust me its in there. There will be many, many get out clauses that say they can. Just because you haven't read it for yourself I should be your lawyer? However I can assure you that it will go something along these lines:
SoE may monitor, collect, log, parse and display by any means the interections which you have during the course of gameplay. SoE may log your IP and associated data. SoE reserves the right to distribute this data by any means deemed appropriate and/or necessary. SoE may at times use or sell this data. SoE will not knowingly send personal data (Personal data is defined as such: ...) However It is up to the End User's discretion as to which data they choose to send via in game message systems such as /tell or mail box features as SoE cannot parse all data saved and thus SoE recommend never to send personal in formation such as address via in-game methods.
Put up or shut up at the end of the day!
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
What bothers me is the "tell" messages between players. regardless if it's a smart thing to do or not, people do tell each other rather personal info, including everything from phone numbers to addresses to account names/passwords to credit card numbers. All of which apparently are available for these "scientist" to peruse through.
Why would you send a personal tell to anyone with a credit card number? Everyone knows that MMO companies log chat so use your noggin before you blat out personal information over a virtual chat.
I think less of the argument is over the actual content of the messages they logged. Isn't this more about the fact we play a MMORPG for enjoyment, and having big brother or some person watching what we say at all times being a bit excessive? It's practiced during certain situations, but being 24/7 takes a lot of the fun out.
Don't be so naïve, because of the wonderful patriot act you could have a phone tap as well. Seriously, someone being given in game chat logs should be the least of a person’s worries . . . unless you have something to hid.
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You wouldn't understand
I dont play any SoE games thus I have no SoE ToS to read for your lazy ass. Trust me its in there. There will be many, many get out clauses that say they can. Just because you haven't read it for yourself I should be your lawyer? However I can assure you that it will go something along these lines:
SoE may monitor, collect, log, parse and display by any means the interections which you have during the course of gameplay. SoE may log your IP and associated data. SoE reserves the right to distribute this data by any means deemed appropriate and/or necessary. SoE may at times use or sell this data. SoE will not knowingly send personal data (Personal data is defined as such: ...) However It is up to the End User's discretion as to which data they choose to send via in game message systems such as /tell or mail box features as SoE cannot parse all data saved and thus SoE recommend never to send personal in formation such as address via in-game methods.
Put up or shut up at the end of the day!
The EULA and ToS Define what SoE Can collect and take from ingame, what they can share is up to the Privacy Policy
Semantics. Its the same thing
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
What bothers me is the "tell" messages between players. regardless if it's a smart thing to do or not, people do tell each other rather personal info, including everything from phone numbers to addresses to account names/passwords to credit card numbers. All of which apparently are available for these "scientist" to peruse through.
Why would you send a personal tell to anyone with a credit card number? Everyone knows that MMO companies log chat so use your noggin before you blat out personal information over a virtual chat.
I think less of the argument is over the actual content of the messages they logged. Isn't this more about the fact we play a MMORPG for enjoyment, and having big brother or some person watching what we say at all times being a bit excessive? It's practiced during certain situations, but being 24/7 takes a lot of the fun out.
Don't be so naïve, because of the wonderful patriot act you could have a phone tap as well. Seriously, someone being given in game chat logs should be the least of a person’s worries . . . unless you have something to hid.
I'm not being naïve, I'm simply stating that you shouldn't be ignorant to data collection that is given to third parties.
What bothers me is the "tell" messages between players. regardless if it's a smart thing to do or not, people do tell each other rather personal info, including everything from phone numbers to addresses to account names/passwords to credit card numbers. All of which apparently are available for these "scientist" to peruse through.
Why would you send a personal tell to anyone with a credit card number? Everyone knows that MMO companies log chat so use your noggin before you blat out personal information over a virtual chat.
I wouldn't. But does that mean everyone else wouldn't as well?
Wife playing at home: "Honey, what's the new credit card number? I want to order this StationCash item."
Husband on business trip playing on laptop in motel: "It's 5555 5555 5555 5555. Security code is 555. Exp 10/10."
Wife: "Thanks, dear. Give me a few minutes to order then we'll find some people to raid with."
Like I said, doesn't matter if it's a smart thing to do or not. The point is that it's bad enough for hackers to intercept the chat logs, it's worse for the company to just hand 'em over freely to anyone who asks.
Show me the section in the EULA/ToS for EQ2 or SWG where I agreed to be part of a science experiment. Then I'll agree with you.
I dont play any SoE games thus I have no SoE ToS to read for your lazy ass. Trust me its in there. There will be many, many get out clauses that say they can. Just because you haven't read it for yourself I should be your lawyer? However I can assure you that it will go something along these lines:
SoE may monitor, collect, log, parse and display by any means the interections which you have during the course of gameplay. SoE may log your IP and associated data. SoE reserves the right to distribute this data by any means deemed appropriate and/or necessary. SoE may at times use or sell this data. SoE will not knowingly send personal data (Personal data is defined as such: ...) However It is up to the End User's discretion as to which data they choose to send via in game message systems such as /tell or mail box features as SoE cannot parse all data saved and thus SoE recommend never to send personal in formation such as address via in-game methods.
Put up or shut up at the end of the day!
So far, you've done neither, lazy ass. It was you who said it's in there, not me. Like I said, find the part I asked for, or stop talking about what you even admit you don't know.
I do agree with your point about handing over logs but as a consumer people should be a little bit more cautious. I have sent a lot of miss-tells in my MMO years so I wouldn’t even dream of sending out credit card info or social security numbers even if it is intended as a PM.
Just to extend onto my other post about phone taps and such. I believe it was 2005 that it was noted that the majority of cellphones were equipped with a basic tracking signal. Be it GPS or triangulation via the towers, someone always knows where you are if you are carrying a cellphone.
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You wouldn't understand
Show me the section in the EULA/ToS for EQ2 or SWG where I agreed to be part of a science experiment. Then I'll agree with you.
I dont play any SoE games thus I have no SoE ToS to read for your lazy ass. Trust me its in there. There will be many, many get out clauses that say they can. Just because you haven't read it for yourself I should be your lawyer? However I can assure you that it will go something along these lines:
SoE may monitor, collect, log, parse and display by any means the interections which you have during the course of gameplay. SoE may log your IP and associated data. SoE reserves the right to distribute this data by any means deemed appropriate and/or necessary. SoE may at times use or sell this data. SoE will not knowingly send personal data (Personal data is defined as such: ...) However It is up to the End User's discretion as to which data they choose to send via in game message systems such as /tell or mail box features as SoE cannot parse all data saved and thus SoE recommend never to send personal in formation such as address via in-game methods.
Put up or shut up at the end of the day!
So far, you've done neither, lazy ass. It was you who said it's in there, not me. Like I said, find the part I asked for, or stop talking about what you even admit you don't know.
Why would SoE violate the law and give away this data in violation of their own ToS/EULA/PP. Technically, giving away the data tells the lazy that its in there, however someone can nitpick it for contradictions if they wanted.
@Zorvan -- But im not offended by these actions. Im trying to help the slow people like you who dont get it. I *know* my data is bring sold by various companies. Get over it. Oh and refusal of YOU who does aparently play to go rad it, is not proof that it isnt there. It is. If you genuinely think it SINT just cos some anonymous guy on a forum said it IS, then I really genuinely pity you.
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
What bothers me is the "tell" messages between players. regardless if it's a smart thing to do or not, people do tell each other rather personal info, including everything from phone numbers to addresses to account names/passwords to credit card numbers. All of which apparently are available for these "scientist" to peruse through.
Why would you send a personal tell to anyone with a credit card number? Everyone knows that MMO companies log chat so use your noggin before you blat out personal information over a virtual chat.
I wouldn't. But does that mean everyone else wouldn't as well?
Wife playing at home: "Honey, what's the new credit card number? I want to order this StationCash item."
Husband on business trip playing on laptop in motel: "It's 5555 5555 5555 5555. Security code is 555. Exp 10/10."
Wife: "Thanks, dear. Give me a few minutes to order then we'll find some people to raid with."
Like I said, doesn't matter if it's a smart thing to do or not. The point is that it's bad enough for hackers to intercept the chat logs, it's worse for the company to just hand 'em over freely to anyone who asks.
Let's expand on this. What if Email and IM services decided to start releasing private data. I can gaurentee there is a much higher percentage of data of this sort in those contents. The situation is the same, it's violating our personal rights to privacy. They do exist on the internet
I found what they can and can't which is anything and everything in the universe according too EQ2's ToS,things is they contradict themselves on the security part of your account which you are responsible for not giveing anything out on mainly your PW.But they can sell anything and everything.
F. SECURITY OF YOUR ACCOUNT
It is important that you remember your Station username and password and that you keep your Station username, password and any security questions in a safe offline location.
If you forget your Station username or password and have not provided us with any security questions and answers, you may not be able to access the Member Materials and/or your Station Account.
You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Station Account and for all activities that occur through the use of your Station Account. You agree to: (i) immediately notify SOE of any unauthorized use of your Station Account or any other breach of security, and (ii) ensure that you secure your Station Account and computer from third party access. SOE will not be liable for any loss or damage arising from your failure to comply with this Section. You may be issued a new password or required to change your password from time to time.
We have implemented physical, electronic and managerial procedures in order to help safeguard and prevent unauthorized access, use and/or disclosure of your personal information. Although we use reasonable efforts to safeguard the security of your personal information, transmissions made on or through the Internet and personal information stored on our servers or the servers of third parties that we use are vulnerable to attack and cannot be guaranteed to be secure. In addition, submissions made via e-mail are not protected by encryption and are vulnerable to interception during transmission.
C. RIGHTS IN USER CONTENT
Any and all User Content submitted (e.g., by uploading or transmitting) to SOE shall be deemed, and shall remain, the property of SOE and/or its Third Party Providers from the moment of creation. Accordingly, SOE shall exclusively own all now known or hereafter existing copyrights and all other intellectual property rights to all User Content of every kind and nature, in perpetuity, throughout the universe. To the extent that any of the above may be void or unenforceable, you agree that any and all User Content is hereby irrevocably assigned to SOE and/or its Third Party Providers, together with all intellectual property rights therein. To the extent any of the User Content is not assignable, by submitting User Content to an SOE Communication Feature, you agree that SOE and/or its Third Party Providers shall be irrevocably entitled to, throughout the universe and in perpetuity, use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, broadcast, license, perform, post, sell, translate, create derivative works from and distribute any User Content for any purpose whatsoever, commercial or otherwise, in any medium now known or hereafter devised, without compensation or credit to the provider of the User Content. You also give up any claim that any use by SOE and/or its Third Party Providers of any User Content violates any of your rights, including but not limited to moral rights, privacy rights, rights to publicity, proprietary or other rights, and/or rights to credit for the material or ideas set forth therein.
I do agree with your point about handing over logs but as a consumer people should be a little bit more cautious. I have sent a lot of miss-tells in my MMO years so I wouldn’t even dream of sending out credit card info or social security numbers even if it is intended as a PM.
Just to extend onto my other post about phone taps and such. I believe it was 2005 that it was noted that the majority of cellphones were equipped with a basic tracking signal. Be it GPS or triangulation via the towers, someone always knows where you are if you are carrying a cellphone.
Cell phones were made trackable for emergency response "9-1-1" calls. Not only to make it easier for paramedics/police to find you in an emergency, but also to stop the anonymous prank calls that were becoming very prevelant.
And yes, due to the Patriot Act, as well as other Homeland Security policies enacted, the government monitoring you is fairly easy and common.
However, last I checked, SOE isn't a government law enforcement agency.
Everything you do in the game with and including the characters you make are property of SOE. Nothing, beyond the box you bought in the store, belongs to you. They are not responsible for customers who agree to their terms and then express moral outrage later. Anyone who is upset with this has only themselves to be mad at.
Before you all discuss the EULA back and forth, afaik that's not a legal binding document.
Another thing is that in every European country theres a law which forbids statements that the majority of people will not read to be used against you later in court, if said info isn't straightforward and contradicts what one would expect.
You would expect personal tells or whispers in-game to stay confidential because a lot of that 60TB data is going to be private data.
I think we can /thread already, its reached its logical conclusion are we are now left with trolls fighting over the scraps.
Zorvan, face it, they own you and you agreed to it. So take the advice from earlier and do the only things you can do..PUT UP OR SHUT UP!
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
Why is everyone getting so violent over the data release? We should be mad, but not at each other..
No reason to get hostile . . .
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You wouldn't understand