Ok, let me make sure I got this. You started a trial of an MMO and expect to come in doing the same things as the people who have been playing for years?
Oh, and its not 40 levels before you can get into that stuff its 76 levels.
Here's what I said.
***
40 hours
***
Here's what you wrote.
***
Oh, and its not 40 levels before you can get into that stuff its 76 levels
***
Your very post reinforces the tired mentality that's plaguing the genre. Again, can you give a reasonable explanation as to why I have to work to get to the supposed real parts of the game?
Why can't I start the "real" game when I load the game and work my way up from there? Aside from providing the obvious answer of subscription fees, what other real reason could there be?
Furthermore, I wasnt expecting this game to break the convention, I was merely hoping the game had some kind of tolerable progression (I had heard they made things easier for new players). I joined one of the supposedly most populated servers and find myself drudging the same garbage as other MMORPGs. Acting as an errand boy for moronic villagers, in an empty newbie zone, or killing random wildlife in an empty newbie zone. Gee, I can log onto Runes of Magic and kill some Reindeer... or I can log on to lineage 2 to kill some wolves... or I can log onto WoW to kill some Mutant Sea lions, or whatever the hell WOTLK newbie quests tell you to do.
I am not going to try to explain anything to anybody because its not that serious. Nobdoy forces you to do anything in life. If you dont like todays MMOs then go do something else with your time. Get out and get a girl, start going to the park and play some kind of sport. People act like there is always supposed to be a MMO on the market that caters to them and its not like that and it never will be. Why do people play todays MMOs is the same as why people play games in general. Because they have fun playing them. Just because you dont have anything to play dont come here and hate on the people who are having fun playing todays MMOs. I feel sorry for you and everybody else like you. All I can say is sorry for your damn luck.
Oh, and all the people like you should read what Lordtwisted posted above. I have come to find out that alot of people really dont know how to play a MMO.
After getting my level 80 elemental shaman in a raid guild, after doing the same 3-4 heroic instances to get the gear i needed to raid, I joined a raid guild, constantly we did the same raid naxxramas, eye of eternity and malygos those three same raids, the same thing over and over and over again. Just hoping for loot. When I was leveling my alt to 80, something just came accross my mind that this is what I will be doing with this character, the same few instances, to the same few raids just to to keep grinding for loot and waiting months after months for a different raid. There was no different exploration, there was no different content, it was rushing to 80 to do the same grind that i did on my shaman.
Is it worth it? The 15 dollars a month to constantly do this same repetition? Then I quit WoW. but is this problem just in WOW? Are there any mmorpgs with a different end game where there are different goals? If there is can any one recommend me one? I am extremely bored and its not that I am burned out there is a big difference between being burned out and just plain bored.
So can any one recommend me a mmorpg or am I going to go back to single player rpgs and wait for the next best thing?
Air highfive, uhm I reccomend RuneScape laugh in my face but Iw ould pay money to forget everything I know about that game and start over I had so much fun on it and the end game goals seem endless it is ina sense grindy but the quests and gmaeplay make up for it.
I was in the exact same shoes as you at one point. I would bounce back and forth from many different free to play as well as pay to play mmos after my wow 'revolation." Then i tried Guild Wars. While it didnt deliver on exactly i was looking for (and lets be honest, very few people are ever going to find exactly what they are looking for in an MMO) it did deliver alot of admirable stuff. A rich story, nice atmosphere with graphics and sound i enjoy, and most importantly it is free to play. It was this key point that broke the mental barrier that seemed to exist with mmos for me. I can make alts until the cows come home with no reason to feel bad cos its free. Also I used to very much rush to get to end game in other MMOs with the idea of getting my money's worth, so to speak. Since it is a free to play game i have found more than enough people willing to take their time and enjoy the rich content in the game. They all share the same mentality, game is free so why not just take your time, the game is not going anywhere nor is your subscription time.
However, that being said it is great for me. No ones opinion will matter as much as your own. Go to the official site, there is a free trial, give it a shot and decide for yourself.
i dont know if its been mentioned yet but runes of magic looks quite promising. its got a pvp system similar to conquer online but theres no way to completely protect ur loot (unless u individually protect every piece) but the thing is everyone has a % droprate on all items, equipped, bound or in bags (not item shop items tho). runes of magic is built ridiculously like wow. like, ull scream copyright infringement everytime u play but its got huge differences. iunno, try it
Ok, let me make sure I got this. You started a trial of an MMO and expect to come in doing the same things as the people who have been playing for years?
Oh, and its not 40 levels before you can get into that stuff its 76 levels.
Here's what I said.
***
40 hours
***
Here's what you wrote.
***
Oh, and its not 40 levels before you can get into that stuff its 76 levels
***
Your very post reinforces the tired mentality that's plaguing the genre. Again, can you give a reasonable explanation as to why I have to work to get to the supposed real parts of the game?
Why can't I start the "real" game when I load the game and work my way up from there? Aside from providing the obvious answer of subscription fees, what other real reason could there be?
Furthermore, I wasnt expecting this game to break the convention, I was merely hoping the game had some kind of tolerable progression (I had heard they made things easier for new players). I joined one of the supposedly most populated servers and find myself drudging the same garbage as other MMORPGs. Acting as an errand boy for moronic villagers, in an empty newbie zone, or killing random wildlife in an empty newbie zone. Gee, I can log onto Runes of Magic and kill some Reindeer... or I can log on to lineage 2 to kill some wolves... or I can log onto WoW to kill some Mutant Sea lions, or whatever the hell WOTLK newbie quests tell you to do.
I am not going to try to explain anything to anybody because its not that serious. Nobdoy forces you to do anything in life. If you dont like todays MMOs then go do something else with your time. Get out and get a girl, start going to the park and play some kind of sport. People act like there is always supposed to be a MMO on the market that caters to them and its not like that and it never will be. Why do people play todays MMOs is the same as why people play games in general. Because they have fun playing them. Just because you dont have anything to play dont come here and hate on the people who are having fun playing todays MMOs. I feel sorry for you and everybody else like you. All I can say is sorry for your damn luck.
Oh, and all the people like you should read what Lordtwisted posted above. I have come to find out that alot of people really dont know how to play a MMO.
ill explain it to him. yo 'him' the reason is cuz its what the people have shown they want. explained. u forget? theyre in business to make money
To the OP: if you think WoW endgame is repetitive, how about most of the games, including physical games, are repetitve.
In tennis, you keep trying to bat the ball back to the other side of the court. In bars, you keep trying to woo the next girl to bed (pun intended). Come on, its the process you enjoy. If you like drinking, you will realise each glass of wine is not the same. If you are serious, eating is repetitive. So is breathing.
Being repetitive is not a big pain, if that is not all there is to life. WoW or quite a few of the good games, can be fun, if spiced with everything else that is there is life. Log on WoW only if you want to do something in the game for a short while, and log out when your level of attention wanes or something better comes to mind. Quit WoW when you feel you lose the incentive to log on, and resub when that mood suddenly comes back.
Originally posted by Orthedos To the OP: if you think WoW endgame is repetitive, how about most of the games, including physical games, are repetitve. In tennis, you keep trying to bat the ball back to the other side of the court. In bars, you keep trying to woo the next girl to bed (pun intended). Come on, its the process you enjoy. If you like drinking, you will realise each glass of wine is not the same. If you are serious, eating is repetitive. So is breathing. Being repetitive is not a big pain, if that is not all there is to life. WoW or quite a few of the good games, can be fun, if spiced with everything else that is there is life. Log on WoW only if you want to do something in the game for a short while, and log out when your level of attention wanes or something better comes to mind. Quit WoW when you feel you lose the incentive to log on, and resub when that mood suddenly comes back. That is all there is, no biggie.
That's a terrible analogy. Playing wow is like playing tennis? Playing wow is like digging holes in the ground. I'm sure you can find THAT fun. How about chopping wood? Sure those things have the capability of being fun, for a few minutes. But after a while it's nothing but work.
To the OP: if you think WoW endgame is repetitive, how about most of the games, including physical games, are repetitve. In tennis, you keep trying to bat the ball back to the other side of the court. In bars, you keep trying to woo the next girl to bed (pun intended). Come on, its the process you enjoy. If you like drinking, you will realise each glass of wine is not the same. If you are serious, eating is repetitive. So is breathing. Being repetitive is not a big pain, if that is not all there is to life. WoW or quite a few of the good games, can be fun, if spiced with everything else that is there is life. Log on WoW only if you want to do something in the game for a short while, and log out when your level of attention wanes or something better comes to mind. Quit WoW when you feel you lose the incentive to log on, and resub when that mood suddenly comes back. That is all there is, no biggie.
The different is what changes during the repetition.
In WoW, once you've done <insert any instance here> 10 times, there's really not that much else to it. The people might change, but the focus is on beating the instance, and the method to beat it really doesn't change all that much. Tank takes damage, dps deals damage, healer heals. Boss is going to do A, B, C, and you need to do E, F, and G to beat him. WoW really shines the first few repetitions of any part of the game, but can really get dull when you've done it too much and there's nothing else to really do.
This isn't just an issue with WoW - it's an issue with any limited content PvE game, which is just about every PvE based game out there.
The only solution right now is PvP. In PvP, you may be capturing that flag over and over and over, but the situation is constantly changing and evolving into something you haven't played before. Even then, it can get dull and boring after enough repitition.
I think the solution to this issue is expanding gameplay overtime rather than just adding content. In WoW, you can kill mobs, go into an instance and kill mobs with a group, or kill other players. Crafting is very streamlined and not all that interesting. Each expansion just adds more mobs to kill, extra tools to kill stuff with, and new stuff to get when you kill something.
WoW's great from a business standpoint because it's got enough content for millions of casual players to never burn through. For more hardcore and serious gamers, the only thing there for a long period of time is the loot system, and a lot of us have realized that it's a big waste of time. I personally love WoW and plan on returning at some point, but I have no motivation to get on my 80 paladin and grind out some gear in instances I've already played through a bunch. Introduce some new interesting and fun gameplay mechanisms and I'll resub immediately.
The world needs to be more dynamic. We need some GM run invasions. Super mobs should spawn randomly in the world, word gets around, a guild gets everyone together and attacks it while another guild tries to stop them. There's really a lot that can be done with some creativity.
After getting my level 80 elemental shaman in a raid guild, after doing the same 3-4 heroic instances to get the gear i needed to raid, I joined a raid guild, constantly we did the same raid naxxramas, eye of eternity and malygos those three same raids, the same thing over and over and over again. Just hoping for loot. When I was leveling my alt to 80, something just came accross my mind that this is what I will be doing with this character, the same few instances, to the same few raids just to to keep grinding for loot and waiting months after months for a different raid. There was no different exploration, there was no different content, it was rushing to 80 to do the same grind that i did on my shaman.
Is it worth it? The 15 dollars a month to constantly do this same repetition? Then I quit WoW. but is this problem just in WOW? Are there any mmorpgs with a different end game where there are different goals? If there is can any one recommend me one? I am extremely bored and its not that I am burned out there is a big difference between being burned out and just plain bored.
So can any one recommend me a mmorpg or am I going to go back to single player rpgs and wait for the next best thing?
This is why I'm playing Oblivion, Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 currently as all MMOs are like this in one form or another right now. I'm hoping that some company will break the treadmill that current MMOs call an "end game" so I can get back into MMOs again but the near future looks bleak at best. The only MMOs I've played that didn't use this formula were Lineage II and EVE. EVE really doesn't have an end game and L2's is 100% PvP based. Both were great but I've been there and done that at this point. Hopefully something will come up in the future that will change this but I doubt it as the typical MMO player has no problem being a happy little hampster running his little legs off and getting nowhere. Until this changes we will be stuck in this MMO rut for a long time to come.
To the OP: if you think WoW endgame is repetitive, how about most of the games, including physical games, are repetitve.
In tennis, you keep trying to bat the ball back to the other side of the court. In bars, you keep trying to woo the next girl to bed (pun intended). Come on, its the process you enjoy. If you like drinking, you will realise each glass of wine is not the same. If you are serious, eating is repetitive. So is breathing.
Being repetitive is not a big pain, if that is not all there is to life. WoW or quite a few of the good games, can be fun, if spiced with everything else that is there is life. Log on WoW only if you want to do something in the game for a short while, and log out when your level of attention wanes or something better comes to mind. Quit WoW when you feel you lose the incentive to log on, and resub when that mood suddenly comes back.
That is all there is, no biggie.
That's a terrible analogy. Playing wow is like playing tennis? Playing wow is like digging holes in the ground. I'm sure you can find THAT fun. How about chopping wood? Sure those things have the capability of being fun, for a few minutes. But after a while it's nothing but work.
Frankly, I have as much interest in playing tennis as I have in digging holes or chopping wood. Any repetetive activity that does not hold your interest is not going to be fun. It's ighly subjective. For me playing tennis would be the same as digging holse or chopping wood. I would definetly prefer to play WoW over any of these activities.
To the OP: if you think WoW endgame is repetitive, how about most of the games, including physical games, are repetitve.
In tennis, you keep trying to bat the ball back to the other side of the court. In bars, you keep trying to woo the next girl to bed (pun intended). Come on, its the process you enjoy. If you like drinking, you will realise each glass of wine is not the same. If you are serious, eating is repetitive. So is breathing.
Being repetitive is not a big pain, if that is not all there is to life. WoW or quite a few of the good games, can be fun, if spiced with everything else that is there is life. Log on WoW only if you want to do something in the game for a short while, and log out when your level of attention wanes or something better comes to mind. Quit WoW when you feel you lose the incentive to log on, and resub when that mood suddenly comes back.
That is all there is, no biggie.
That's a terrible analogy. Playing wow is like playing tennis? Playing wow is like digging holes in the ground. I'm sure you can find THAT fun. How about chopping wood? Sure those things have the capability of being fun, for a few minutes. But after a while it's nothing but work.
Its amazing how many people love digging holes=) Going on a raid a few times a week IS fun. It only gets repetitive if you're doing it multiple times a night day after day after day in the same dungeon. Considering how many different dungeons there are, anyone with a normal play schedual would be hard pressed to find it overly repetitive since you can do so many. 10 times is a lot for one dungeon. But even then, if you're actually figuring it out, thats part of the fun. The first 5 or 6 times, you haven't mastered the thing, unless you're using a walk through and if thats the case, I feel zero sympathy for anyone's BORDOM. Thats YOUR freakin fault for cheating. Once its on farm status and you're sleep walking your way through, its time to move on though. Doing a dungeon by following a step by step guide NEVER makes it more fun. Sorry.
If you don't like PvE, then your opinion means nothing anyway;) Considernig WOW has some the best PvE of any MMO, if WOW is boring they all are, which also means your opinion makes no difference. Eventually content in a MMO gets repetitve. PvE, PvP...ALL of it. It'll ALWAYS get repetitve. The type of game doesnt' matter. You play one long enough, you're doing the same thing day after day at some point. Its the nature of the beast and its NEVER going to change until we're all living in the Matrix.
Well like I said before. Most people, and that doesn't point fingers at anyone. Don't play an MMO. Most people power level thier way through the game, by gold on internet websites so that they can twink thier toon to level at the fastest possible rate in order to play the end game.
Then those people complain about how bad the end game is.
I can not say anything about the end game from experience, I played WoW for about 6 months and was in the level 60's. But I did all of my own harvesting and crafting. I leveled Fishing. I traveled back and forth across the map for the current quest I was on, rather then useing a guide to tell me what quest I can stack to get the most XP from a travelling spot.
I pretty much solo'ed because I leveled so slowly nobody wanted to play with me other then pick up groups.
So back to my original observation. Those people that feel they need to race to the end of an MMO, not only ruin the game for themselves, because they don't get the true experience of the game, but they leave us, the ones that prefer to experience the game in time, behind with no one to enjoy the game with. The true RPG gamers are a dieing breed due to the cheats, hacks, trainers, gold sites, etc... available to the community these days.
I've got a tailor in WoW and to go from 300-350 tailoring takes 725 Netherweave Cloth (and other material). To go from 350-440 takes 2975 Forstweave Cloth (and other material).
To farm all that cloth, or to farm the gold to buy it is going to take some time.
If I did it in one sitting non-stop I would get RSI and likely go insane, so like the Romans did you have to Divide and Conquer. Also an iPod or good music makes it go faster.
Eventually I know that I will get to 440 Tailoring and I could do some other stuff in between or I could double-up, farming mobs that are known to drop a certain item, but at 0.5%. If I farm them and it drops, awesome. If it doesn't then I still get cloth.
It doesn't matter if you play WAR, EQ2, LoTRO, FFXI or heck even Horizons, all MMO's to some degree have a grind. Some disguise it better than others (my own personal opinion is that AoC is one of the better MMO's at disguising grind), but ultimately the OP can write the same topic 10 years from now and it won't make a difference.
I doubt that Blizzards next MMO would have 0 grind, because by definition no MMO can end. Why else would they include achievements? With WoW's dailies it is also impossible to run out of quests, yes you may hit the limit of 25 for that day and I suppose once you hit a particular factions reputation you can in theory run out. Unless a quick 100g doesn't appeal.
Had to remove signature because of lame code of conduct...
Alot of folks in my guild have relagted their mains to the storage bin until Ulduar comes out and have made alt after alt. Works out for me since I just got back from a personal vacation. But I do hope the next content patch spices things up a bit.
Not saying the game itself is bad, it's just boring raiding the same thing over and over and over.
I dont know whats your problem on raiding over and over to get the SHINY WEPONS *oooh ahh* but doing it over and over is because of the ...drop rate.You see it makes it very stupid if some idot in your party disides to take all the SHINY WEPONS and SHINY GEAR all for them selves!
But WAIT-we can do it all over again and get diffrent stuff-now thats epic!See where im going with this...not everything should drop in one raid cuz if you were to do it again it would be a bad experience and very very dull and lazy for blizzard.If you want this to happen go play MABINOGI or something...nexon #%@$. Yes endgame does tend to get boring thats why we get new raid dungeons every once in a while and the same events every year-which they should put more events in.Improve the community in game.AND LET HORDE AND ALLIANCE UNDERSTAND THE SPEACH-ITS STUPID NOT UNDERSTANDING...a little something called english not darriansian.. Think this over and maybe you will come back to WoW one day-or not who knows.
Yes, you get new raids... but it's still the same boring crap but dressed up in different colors... kill the trash, kill the boss, kill more trash, kill the next boss... pointless grind for shiny things...
I dont know whats your problem on raiding over and over to get the SHINY WEPONS *oooh ahh* but doing it over and over is because of the ...drop rate.You see it makes it very stupid if some idot in your party disides to take all the SHINY WEPONS and SHINY GEAR all for them selves!
But WAIT-we can do it all over again and get diffrent stuff-now thats epic!See where im going with this...not everything should drop in one raid cuz if you were to do it again it would be a bad experience and very very dull and lazy for blizzard.If you want this to happen go play MABINOGI or something...nexon #%@$. Yes endgame does tend to get boring thats why we get new raid dungeons every once in a while and the same events every year-which they should put more events in.Improve the community in game.AND LET HORDE AND ALLIANCE UNDERSTAND THE SPEACH-ITS STUPID NOT UNDERSTANDING...a little something called english not darriansian.. Think this over and maybe you will come back to WoW one day-or not who knows.
Yes, you get new raids... but it's still the same boring crap but dressed up in different colors... kill the trash, kill the boss, kill more trash, kill the next boss... pointless grind for shiny things...
This isn't a problem with just WoW, it's an industry wide problem that affects most MMORPGs. It seems most development houses have pidgeonholed mmorpgs in certain basic "must have" features namely: the "grind" in order to prolong the subscription to their game as they worked on more "content".
This isn't a problem with just WoW, it's an industry wide problem that affects most MMORPGs. It seems most development houses have pidgeonholed mmorpgs in certain basic "must have" features namely: the "grind" in order to prolong the subscription to their game as they worked on more "content".
I can only partially agree with this statment. You still have to understand the grind they put in to slow you down while they work on new content, wouldn't need to be put into the game if the players played the game as an RPG and followed the quest line, rather then playing it as an action rpg <aka hack n slash> grind fest to see who can reach the end game first.
Too many people are concerned with being the first to get the cool new shiny object, that they all miss big chunks of the game in the race to the end.
If you played out every quest, every piece of the story line, and worked on the other fun aspects of the game that didn't lead to the fast track to the end game, people would enjoy these games a lot longer.
It took me five years to reach the end game of the original Everquest, while some guildmates did it in less then a year. Due to them finishing it so fast most of them quit playing it with in the second year after they had done all the main dungeons to death. I played for 6 years, and they usually raised the level cap, and added tons of new content before I was even there. It was kind of nice.
I'm playing AoC like that right now. Taking the time to actually explore the world instead of grinding has been a blast. Does'nt hurt I found a killer guild though. Having a good guild can make any game last.
I am not going to try to explain anything to anybody because its not that serious. Nobdoy forces you to do anything in life. If you dont like todays MMOs then go do something else with your time. Get out and get a girl, start going to the park and play some kind of sport. People act like there is always supposed to be a MMO on the market that caters to them and its not like that and it never will be. Why do people play todays MMOs is the same as why people play games in general. Because they have fun playing them. Just because you dont have anything to play dont come here and hate on the people who are having fun playing todays MMOs. I feel sorry for you and everybody else like you. All I can say is sorry for your damn luck.
Oh, and all the people like you should read what Lordtwisted posted above. I have come to find out that alot of people really dont know how to play a MMO.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You seem to be under the impression that I'm currently subscribed to an MMORPG right now. I express dissatification with the current pool of games, and I subscribe to none right now. I am allowed to express my opinion on games I don't like, right? Moving on : Hating on people who like these games? Is this directed at me? When did I even "hate" on people for liking the treadmill business model? Hell, I liked it at one point; but after awhile it gets boring. Chracter advancement can't be the sole reason to play a game. Unfortunately, a lot of these MMORPG devs seemed to have forgotten this.
You feel sorry for me? How quaint.
No, my good friend : I feel sorry for your kind. People who play these games hour after hour straight, thinking their meager in game accomplishments are relevant. People who defend the game they play as if it's some kind of family member, and in some cases; being openly hostile to those who disagree with your point of view.
I merely offered a dissenting opinion on MMORPG design and this is worthy of pity? Ludicrous.
If you played out every quest, every piece of the story line, and worked on the other fun aspects of the game that didn't lead to the fast track to the end game, people would enjoy these games a lot longer.
That's because, in many MMORPGs, most of the quests are dull and generally suck monkey balls. I don't care why you need those ghoul tongues! How many do you need for only one potion?! Why don't you go and pick those flowers yourself?! Can't you just send one of your own privates to send the message or use a goddamn pidgeon or something?! Why send us when you got a whole army?
-I feel like a hero already. Not.
Good motivation for bad quests don't make them good BUT good quests with bad motivation are still good quests. Why bother reading a wall of text? 90% of the time it's some lame excuse like "We need a small group to inflitrate" or "my back is hurting" or "there's monsters everywhere." Quest lines might be more interesting than "quest bubbles".
There's also the curse MMOs: static world. Nothing changes. I have no impact on the world whatsoever. I save the child - he'll need another savior in few minutes. How can I feel a sense of accomplishment if everything I do doesn't last? Atleast there's a ding every once in a while.
If I want questing and lore, I stick to SP RPGs for now.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
If you played out every quest, every piece of the story line, and worked on the other fun aspects of the game that didn't lead to the fast track to the end game, people would enjoy these games a lot longer.
That's because, in many MMORPGs, most of the quests are dull and generally suck monkey balls. I don't care why you need those ghoul tongues! How many do you need for only one potion?! Why don't you go and pick those flowers yourself?! Can't you just send one of your own privates to send the message or use a goddamn pidgeon or something?! Why send us when you got a whole army?
-I feel like a hero already. Not.
Good motivation for bad quests don't make them good BUT good quests with bad motivation are still good quests. Why bother reading a wall of text? 90% of the time it's some lame excuse like "We need a small group to inflitrate" or "my back is hurting" or "there's monsters everywhere." Quest lines might be more interesting than "quest bubbles".
There's also the curse MMOs: static world. Nothing changes. I have no impact on the world whatsoever. I save the child - he'll need another savior in few minutes. How can I feel a sense of accomplishment if everything I do doesn't last? Atleast there's a ding every once in a while.
If I want questing and lore, I stick to SP RPGs for now.
Seriously, the whole generic quest thing is out of hand. How about this for a business model guysz!1
Quality over Quantity.
Less quests but with a higher quality of design AND reward. I dont need a quest to tell me to kill 3 Gnolls, or collect random items. Or to deliver a message to some shmo who's 5 yards away. Let quests actually be QUESTS, and leave the mundane abilities to occur naturally (Gathering, clearing an area, and so on.)
Frankly I don't play for hours I night. I simply prefer the ability to interact with my entertainment rather then sit and read a book or watch tv. Albeit lately I'm more into water color and wood carving. Just be careful to label people who play mmorpgs as "those people". We vary and our reasons for playing vary.
To the OP: if you think WoW endgame is repetitive, how about most of the games, including physical games, are repetitve.
In tennis, you keep trying to bat the ball back to the other side of the court. In bars, you keep trying to woo the next girl to bed (pun intended). Come on, its the process you enjoy. If you like drinking, you will realise each glass of wine is not the same. If you are serious, eating is repetitive. So is breathing.
Being repetitive is not a big pain, if that is not all there is to life. WoW or quite a few of the good games, can be fun, if spiced with everything else that is there is life. Log on WoW only if you want to do something in the game for a short while, and log out when your level of attention wanes or something better comes to mind. Quit WoW when you feel you lose the incentive to log on, and resub when that mood suddenly comes back.
That is all there is, no biggie.
That's a terrible analogy. Playing wow is like playing tennis? Playing wow is like digging holes in the ground. I'm sure you can find THAT fun. How about chopping wood? Sure those things have the capability of being fun, for a few minutes. But after a while it's nothing but work.
That is a terribly narrow mind of yours. You can compare playing WoW to chopping wood, I cannot compare playing WoW to tennis. Will you draw up more rules on how I can talk and think?
Go back to the topic. If you have no better way of arguing at least stop derailing the argument.
Comments
Here's what I said.
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40 hours
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Here's what you wrote.
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Oh, and its not 40 levels before you can get into that stuff its 76 levels
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Your very post reinforces the tired mentality that's plaguing the genre. Again, can you give a reasonable explanation as to why I have to work to get to the supposed real parts of the game?
Why can't I start the "real" game when I load the game and work my way up from there? Aside from providing the obvious answer of subscription fees, what other real reason could there be?
Furthermore, I wasnt expecting this game to break the convention, I was merely hoping the game had some kind of tolerable progression (I had heard they made things easier for new players). I joined one of the supposedly most populated servers and find myself drudging the same garbage as other MMORPGs. Acting as an errand boy for moronic villagers, in an empty newbie zone, or killing random wildlife in an empty newbie zone. Gee, I can log onto Runes of Magic and kill some Reindeer... or I can log on to lineage 2 to kill some wolves... or I can log onto WoW to kill some Mutant Sea lions, or whatever the hell WOTLK newbie quests tell you to do.
I am not going to try to explain anything to anybody because its not that serious. Nobdoy forces you to do anything in life. If you dont like todays MMOs then go do something else with your time. Get out and get a girl, start going to the park and play some kind of sport. People act like there is always supposed to be a MMO on the market that caters to them and its not like that and it never will be. Why do people play todays MMOs is the same as why people play games in general. Because they have fun playing them. Just because you dont have anything to play dont come here and hate on the people who are having fun playing todays MMOs. I feel sorry for you and everybody else like you. All I can say is sorry for your damn luck.
Oh, and all the people like you should read what Lordtwisted posted above. I have come to find out that alot of people really dont know how to play a MMO.
Air highfive, uhm I reccomend RuneScape laugh in my face but Iw ould pay money to forget everything I know about that game and start over I had so much fun on it and the end game goals seem endless it is ina sense grindy but the quests and gmaeplay make up for it.
I was in the exact same shoes as you at one point. I would bounce back and forth from many different free to play as well as pay to play mmos after my wow 'revolation." Then i tried Guild Wars. While it didnt deliver on exactly i was looking for (and lets be honest, very few people are ever going to find exactly what they are looking for in an MMO) it did deliver alot of admirable stuff. A rich story, nice atmosphere with graphics and sound i enjoy, and most importantly it is free to play. It was this key point that broke the mental barrier that seemed to exist with mmos for me. I can make alts until the cows come home with no reason to feel bad cos its free. Also I used to very much rush to get to end game in other MMOs with the idea of getting my money's worth, so to speak. Since it is a free to play game i have found more than enough people willing to take their time and enjoy the rich content in the game. They all share the same mentality, game is free so why not just take your time, the game is not going anywhere nor is your subscription time.
However, that being said it is great for me. No ones opinion will matter as much as your own. Go to the official site, there is a free trial, give it a shot and decide for yourself.
~If you run, you'll only die tired~
Final Fantasy XI is the only other MMO that I can say that I really enjoyed playing. It is very similar to Lineage 2 in alot of ways.
i dont know if its been mentioned yet but runes of magic looks quite promising. its got a pvp system similar to conquer online but theres no way to completely protect ur loot (unless u individually protect every piece) but the thing is everyone has a % droprate on all items, equipped, bound or in bags (not item shop items tho). runes of magic is built ridiculously like wow. like, ull scream copyright infringement everytime u play but its got huge differences. iunno, try it
Here's what I said.
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40 hours
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Here's what you wrote.
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Oh, and its not 40 levels before you can get into that stuff its 76 levels
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Your very post reinforces the tired mentality that's plaguing the genre. Again, can you give a reasonable explanation as to why I have to work to get to the supposed real parts of the game?
Why can't I start the "real" game when I load the game and work my way up from there? Aside from providing the obvious answer of subscription fees, what other real reason could there be?
Furthermore, I wasnt expecting this game to break the convention, I was merely hoping the game had some kind of tolerable progression (I had heard they made things easier for new players). I joined one of the supposedly most populated servers and find myself drudging the same garbage as other MMORPGs. Acting as an errand boy for moronic villagers, in an empty newbie zone, or killing random wildlife in an empty newbie zone. Gee, I can log onto Runes of Magic and kill some Reindeer... or I can log on to lineage 2 to kill some wolves... or I can log onto WoW to kill some Mutant Sea lions, or whatever the hell WOTLK newbie quests tell you to do.
I am not going to try to explain anything to anybody because its not that serious. Nobdoy forces you to do anything in life. If you dont like todays MMOs then go do something else with your time. Get out and get a girl, start going to the park and play some kind of sport. People act like there is always supposed to be a MMO on the market that caters to them and its not like that and it never will be. Why do people play todays MMOs is the same as why people play games in general. Because they have fun playing them. Just because you dont have anything to play dont come here and hate on the people who are having fun playing todays MMOs. I feel sorry for you and everybody else like you. All I can say is sorry for your damn luck.
Oh, and all the people like you should read what Lordtwisted posted above. I have come to find out that alot of people really dont know how to play a MMO.
ill explain it to him. yo 'him' the reason is cuz its what the people have shown they want. explained. u forget? theyre in business to make money
To the OP: if you think WoW endgame is repetitive, how about most of the games, including physical games, are repetitve.
In tennis, you keep trying to bat the ball back to the other side of the court. In bars, you keep trying to woo the next girl to bed (pun intended). Come on, its the process you enjoy. If you like drinking, you will realise each glass of wine is not the same. If you are serious, eating is repetitive. So is breathing.
Being repetitive is not a big pain, if that is not all there is to life. WoW or quite a few of the good games, can be fun, if spiced with everything else that is there is life. Log on WoW only if you want to do something in the game for a short while, and log out when your level of attention wanes or something better comes to mind. Quit WoW when you feel you lose the incentive to log on, and resub when that mood suddenly comes back.
That is all there is, no biggie.
The different is what changes during the repetition.
In WoW, once you've done <insert any instance here> 10 times, there's really not that much else to it. The people might change, but the focus is on beating the instance, and the method to beat it really doesn't change all that much. Tank takes damage, dps deals damage, healer heals. Boss is going to do A, B, C, and you need to do E, F, and G to beat him. WoW really shines the first few repetitions of any part of the game, but can really get dull when you've done it too much and there's nothing else to really do.
This isn't just an issue with WoW - it's an issue with any limited content PvE game, which is just about every PvE based game out there.
The only solution right now is PvP. In PvP, you may be capturing that flag over and over and over, but the situation is constantly changing and evolving into something you haven't played before. Even then, it can get dull and boring after enough repitition.
I think the solution to this issue is expanding gameplay overtime rather than just adding content. In WoW, you can kill mobs, go into an instance and kill mobs with a group, or kill other players. Crafting is very streamlined and not all that interesting. Each expansion just adds more mobs to kill, extra tools to kill stuff with, and new stuff to get when you kill something.
WoW's great from a business standpoint because it's got enough content for millions of casual players to never burn through. For more hardcore and serious gamers, the only thing there for a long period of time is the loot system, and a lot of us have realized that it's a big waste of time. I personally love WoW and plan on returning at some point, but I have no motivation to get on my 80 paladin and grind out some gear in instances I've already played through a bunch. Introduce some new interesting and fun gameplay mechanisms and I'll resub immediately.
The world needs to be more dynamic. We need some GM run invasions. Super mobs should spawn randomly in the world, word gets around, a guild gets everyone together and attacks it while another guild tries to stop them. There's really a lot that can be done with some creativity.
In short, WoW needs to mix it up a bit.
This is why I'm playing Oblivion, Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 currently as all MMOs are like this in one form or another right now. I'm hoping that some company will break the treadmill that current MMOs call an "end game" so I can get back into MMOs again but the near future looks bleak at best. The only MMOs I've played that didn't use this formula were Lineage II and EVE. EVE really doesn't have an end game and L2's is 100% PvP based. Both were great but I've been there and done that at this point. Hopefully something will come up in the future that will change this but I doubt it as the typical MMO player has no problem being a happy little hampster running his little legs off and getting nowhere. Until this changes we will be stuck in this MMO rut for a long time to come.
Bren
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beat();
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Frankly, I have as much interest in playing tennis as I have in digging holes or chopping wood. Any repetetive activity that does not hold your interest is not going to be fun. It's ighly subjective. For me playing tennis would be the same as digging holse or chopping wood. I would definetly prefer to play WoW over any of these activities.
Its amazing how many people love digging holes=) Going on a raid a few times a week IS fun. It only gets repetitive if you're doing it multiple times a night day after day after day in the same dungeon. Considering how many different dungeons there are, anyone with a normal play schedual would be hard pressed to find it overly repetitive since you can do so many. 10 times is a lot for one dungeon. But even then, if you're actually figuring it out, thats part of the fun. The first 5 or 6 times, you haven't mastered the thing, unless you're using a walk through and if thats the case, I feel zero sympathy for anyone's BORDOM. Thats YOUR freakin fault for cheating. Once its on farm status and you're sleep walking your way through, its time to move on though. Doing a dungeon by following a step by step guide NEVER makes it more fun. Sorry.
If you don't like PvE, then your opinion means nothing anyway;) Considernig WOW has some the best PvE of any MMO, if WOW is boring they all are, which also means your opinion makes no difference. Eventually content in a MMO gets repetitve. PvE, PvP...ALL of it. It'll ALWAYS get repetitve. The type of game doesnt' matter. You play one long enough, you're doing the same thing day after day at some point. Its the nature of the beast and its NEVER going to change until we're all living in the Matrix.
Well like I said before. Most people, and that doesn't point fingers at anyone. Don't play an MMO. Most people power level thier way through the game, by gold on internet websites so that they can twink thier toon to level at the fastest possible rate in order to play the end game.
Then those people complain about how bad the end game is.
I can not say anything about the end game from experience, I played WoW for about 6 months and was in the level 60's. But I did all of my own harvesting and crafting. I leveled Fishing. I traveled back and forth across the map for the current quest I was on, rather then useing a guide to tell me what quest I can stack to get the most XP from a travelling spot.
I pretty much solo'ed because I leveled so slowly nobody wanted to play with me other then pick up groups.
So back to my original observation. Those people that feel they need to race to the end of an MMO, not only ruin the game for themselves, because they don't get the true experience of the game, but they leave us, the ones that prefer to experience the game in time, behind with no one to enjoy the game with. The true RPG gamers are a dieing breed due to the cheats, hacks, trainers, gold sites, etc... available to the community these days.
Not so nice guy!
I'm going to give an example:
I've got a tailor in WoW and to go from 300-350 tailoring takes 725 Netherweave Cloth (and other material). To go from 350-440 takes 2975 Forstweave Cloth (and other material).
To farm all that cloth, or to farm the gold to buy it is going to take some time.
If I did it in one sitting non-stop I would get RSI and likely go insane, so like the Romans did you have to Divide and Conquer. Also an iPod or good music makes it go faster.
Eventually I know that I will get to 440 Tailoring and I could do some other stuff in between or I could double-up, farming mobs that are known to drop a certain item, but at 0.5%. If I farm them and it drops, awesome. If it doesn't then I still get cloth.
It doesn't matter if you play WAR, EQ2, LoTRO, FFXI or heck even Horizons, all MMO's to some degree have a grind. Some disguise it better than others (my own personal opinion is that AoC is one of the better MMO's at disguising grind), but ultimately the OP can write the same topic 10 years from now and it won't make a difference.
I doubt that Blizzards next MMO would have 0 grind, because by definition no MMO can end. Why else would they include achievements? With WoW's dailies it is also impossible to run out of quests, yes you may hit the limit of 25 for that day and I suppose once you hit a particular factions reputation you can in theory run out. Unless a quick 100g doesn't appeal.
Had to remove signature because of lame code of conduct...
Honestly, you aren't the only one.
Alot of folks in my guild have relagted their mains to the storage bin until Ulduar comes out and have made alt after alt. Works out for me since I just got back from a personal vacation. But I do hope the next content patch spices things up a bit.
Not saying the game itself is bad, it's just boring raiding the same thing over and over and over.
Yes, you get new raids... but it's still the same boring crap but dressed up in different colors... kill the trash, kill the boss, kill more trash, kill the next boss... pointless grind for shiny things...
Yes, you get new raids... but it's still the same boring crap but dressed up in different colors... kill the trash, kill the boss, kill more trash, kill the next boss... pointless grind for shiny things...
Welcome to MMOs
This isn't a problem with just WoW, it's an industry wide problem that affects most MMORPGs. It seems most development houses have pidgeonholed mmorpgs in certain basic "must have" features namely: the "grind" in order to prolong the subscription to their game as they worked on more "content".
I can only partially agree with this statment. You still have to understand the grind they put in to slow you down while they work on new content, wouldn't need to be put into the game if the players played the game as an RPG and followed the quest line, rather then playing it as an action rpg <aka hack n slash> grind fest to see who can reach the end game first.
Too many people are concerned with being the first to get the cool new shiny object, that they all miss big chunks of the game in the race to the end.
If you played out every quest, every piece of the story line, and worked on the other fun aspects of the game that didn't lead to the fast track to the end game, people would enjoy these games a lot longer.
It took me five years to reach the end game of the original Everquest, while some guildmates did it in less then a year. Due to them finishing it so fast most of them quit playing it with in the second year after they had done all the main dungeons to death. I played for 6 years, and they usually raised the level cap, and added tons of new content before I was even there. It was kind of nice.
Not so nice guy!
I'm playing AoC like that right now. Taking the time to actually explore the world instead of grinding has been a blast. Does'nt hurt I found a killer guild though. Having a good guild can make any game last.
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I am not going to try to explain anything to anybody because its not that serious. Nobdoy forces you to do anything in life. If you dont like todays MMOs then go do something else with your time. Get out and get a girl, start going to the park and play some kind of sport. People act like there is always supposed to be a MMO on the market that caters to them and its not like that and it never will be. Why do people play todays MMOs is the same as why people play games in general. Because they have fun playing them. Just because you dont have anything to play dont come here and hate on the people who are having fun playing todays MMOs. I feel sorry for you and everybody else like you. All I can say is sorry for your damn luck.
Oh, and all the people like you should read what Lordtwisted posted above. I have come to find out that alot of people really dont know how to play a MMO.
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You seem to be under the impression that I'm currently subscribed to an MMORPG right now. I express dissatification with the current pool of games, and I subscribe to none right now. I am allowed to express my opinion on games I don't like, right? Moving on : Hating on people who like these games? Is this directed at me? When did I even "hate" on people for liking the treadmill business model? Hell, I liked it at one point; but after awhile it gets boring. Chracter advancement can't be the sole reason to play a game. Unfortunately, a lot of these MMORPG devs seemed to have forgotten this.
You feel sorry for me? How quaint.
No, my good friend : I feel sorry for your kind. People who play these games hour after hour straight, thinking their meager in game accomplishments are relevant. People who defend the game they play as if it's some kind of family member, and in some cases; being openly hostile to those who disagree with your point of view.
I merely offered a dissenting opinion on MMORPG design and this is worthy of pity? Ludicrous.
That's because, in many MMORPGs, most of the quests are dull and generally suck monkey balls. I don't care why you need those ghoul tongues! How many do you need for only one potion?! Why don't you go and pick those flowers yourself?! Can't you just send one of your own privates to send the message or use a goddamn pidgeon or something?! Why send us when you got a whole army?
-I feel like a hero already. Not.
Good motivation for bad quests don't make them good BUT good quests with bad motivation are still good quests. Why bother reading a wall of text? 90% of the time it's some lame excuse like "We need a small group to inflitrate" or "my back is hurting" or "there's monsters everywhere." Quest lines might be more interesting than "quest bubbles".
There's also the curse MMOs: static world. Nothing changes. I have no impact on the world whatsoever. I save the child - he'll need another savior in few minutes. How can I feel a sense of accomplishment if everything I do doesn't last? Atleast there's a ding every once in a while.
If I want questing and lore, I stick to SP RPGs for now.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
That's because, in many MMORPGs, most of the quests are dull and generally suck monkey balls. I don't care why you need those ghoul tongues! How many do you need for only one potion?! Why don't you go and pick those flowers yourself?! Can't you just send one of your own privates to send the message or use a goddamn pidgeon or something?! Why send us when you got a whole army?
-I feel like a hero already. Not.
Good motivation for bad quests don't make them good BUT good quests with bad motivation are still good quests. Why bother reading a wall of text? 90% of the time it's some lame excuse like "We need a small group to inflitrate" or "my back is hurting" or "there's monsters everywhere." Quest lines might be more interesting than "quest bubbles".
There's also the curse MMOs: static world. Nothing changes. I have no impact on the world whatsoever. I save the child - he'll need another savior in few minutes. How can I feel a sense of accomplishment if everything I do doesn't last? Atleast there's a ding every once in a while.
If I want questing and lore, I stick to SP RPGs for now.
Seriously, the whole generic quest thing is out of hand. How about this for a business model guysz!1
Quality over Quantity.
Less quests but with a higher quality of design AND reward. I dont need a quest to tell me to kill 3 Gnolls, or collect random items. Or to deliver a message to some shmo who's 5 yards away. Let quests actually be QUESTS, and leave the mundane abilities to occur naturally (Gathering, clearing an area, and so on.)
Frankly I don't play for hours I night. I simply prefer the ability to interact with my entertainment rather then sit and read a book or watch tv. Albeit lately I'm more into water color and wood carving. Just be careful to label people who play mmorpgs as "those people". We vary and our reasons for playing vary.
That is a terribly narrow mind of yours. You can compare playing WoW to chopping wood, I cannot compare playing WoW to tennis. Will you draw up more rules on how I can talk and think?
Go back to the topic. If you have no better way of arguing at least stop derailing the argument.