My first toon was a level 60 rogue, that was the cap at the time, since then I have 2 80's, and thats without quest helper
If everyone wasn't so concerned about who was writing something and instead judged what was being written, they would see that zondorf was spot on correct in flushing this person out for being less than honest.
In the above quote from this thread he claims to have 2 level 80 characters and a level 60 character from before burning crusade.
Then in this thread on January 19th 2009 he/she talks about never getting a character anywhere near the levels that are claimed above, let alone multiple years ago.
I've played WoW on and off for 2 years, this is the first time I went past level 55. I love doing Instances but never did Dire Maul. Before I get a group I like to do some research. However using alakhazam, and Thottbot as my reference for Dire Maul it"s only confusing me more this time.
You have East, West and North along with needing keys. All the walk troughs that I've found seem to be bad.
So can someone give me a good walk through ?
Seems this and upper and lower Black Rock Spier are very un popular because of the hoops you have to jump.
So in this thread the original poster makes all sorts of claims.
Zondorf points out that he/she was only level 40 and not really well informed to make such claims.
Then the original poster claims to have many max level characters, some that date back before any expansion.
Zondorf points out in the original posters history that just a few months ago they had NEVER gotten past level 55 and were still doing old world content.
I know it is easy to have preconceived notions about different posters here for one reason or another, but that doesn't mean ignoring what they say just to poke fun is the right course of action. It looks like zondorf really called this one right on the money and the original poster knew it so they lied to make their street cred look believable.
People get treated by the way they present themselves. Zorndorf gets treated the way he does for the reputation he has gained by posting the way he does. If no one is listening to him, even when making a legitimate argument, it is partly his own fault, whether that is right or wrong isn't for me to judge.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Originally posted by Abrahmm People get treated by the way they present themselves. Zorndorf gets treated the way he does for the reputation he has gained by posting the way he does. If no one is listening to him, even when making a legitimate argument, it is partly his own fault, whether that is right or wrong isn't for me to judge.
Most people on the forums here seem to get treated based on other perceptions of their game allegiance. You are either labeled a fanboi or a troll. However I understand what you are saying and you have a point. I can't say I disagree with it, but at the same time I at least try to read and understand what anyone posts regardless of what I think they sound like. There is only one poster on the forums that I don't read anymore and that is only because she has no concept of what a paragraph is and is more long winded than I am.
The person I was aiming this at (Ventarnias) was ignoring the logic and facts zondorf was presenting (in a rather rational manner mind you), because they simply wanted to bash zondorf for being zondorf. Just look at each of their signatures to see why that is. One defends the holy light and the other is a straw man(?) attack.
Originally posted by Abrahmm People get treated by the way they present themselves. Zorndorf gets treated the way he does for the reputation he has gained by posting the way he does. If no one is listening to him, even when making a legitimate argument, it is partly his own fault, whether that is right or wrong isn't for me to judge.
Most people on the forums here seem to get treated based on other perceptions of their game allegiance. You are either labeled a fanboi or a troll. However I understand what you are saying and you have a point. I can't say I disagree with it, but at the same time I at least try to read and understand what anyone posts regardless of what I think they sound like. There is only one poster on the forums that I don't read anymore and that is only because she has no concept of what a paragraph is and is more long winded than I am.
The person I was aiming this at (Ventarnias) was ignoring the logic and facts zondorf was presenting (in a rather rational manner mind you), because they simply wanted to bash zondorf for being zondorf. Just look at each of their signatures to see why that is. One defends the holy light and the other is a straw man(?) attack.
Yeah, you are correct, and I am completely guilty of the exact same thing. I know I have completely dismissed things Zorndorf says(even the point he was making in this thread, which turns out to be correct) simply because he is who he is. It isn't fair, but he has brought that upon himself.
I also think it's funny that in the very post after yours, I get called a troll.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
treated as you are simply part of the ignorant masses falling for Blizzard's tricks.
It's funny you should say it this way, because that was exactly how I felt about it. I played WoW for a little while, and enjoyed it while I played. But looking back, that is exactly how I feel about it. I feel like I was "suckered" in to playing the game. It's an odd feeling to have about a game really. I feel like I gave some homeless guy $20 and now realize he is just going to buy booze with it. I feel like the entire premise of WoW is simply to trick people into spending as much time as possible playing the game. The entire idea of grinding out instances/raids/battlegrounds/arenas in order to get better gear, only to do it again in a slighly more difficult setting in order to get better gear yet, rinse and repeat, just feels coercing. The "carrot on a stick" motto really sums up the feeling for me. Is it a correct view? I don't know, but it's the way I feel about it.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Originally posted by Abrahmm People get treated by the way they present themselves. Zorndorf gets treated the way he does for the reputation he has gained by posting the way he does. If no one is listening to him, even when making a legitimate argument, it is partly his own fault, whether that is right or wrong isn't for me to judge.
Most people on the forums here seem to get treated based on other perceptions of their game allegiance. You are either labeled a fanboi or a troll. However I understand what you are saying and you have a point. I can't say I disagree with it, but at the same time I at least try to read and understand what anyone posts regardless of what I think they sound like. There is only one poster on the forums that I don't read anymore and that is only because she has no concept of what a paragraph is and is more long winded than I am.
The person I was aiming this at (Ventarnias) was ignoring the logic and facts zondorf was presenting (in a rather rational manner mind you), because they simply wanted to bash zondorf for being zondorf. Just look at each of their signatures to see why that is. One defends the holy light and the other is a straw man(?) attack.
Yeah, you are correct, and I am completely guilty of the exact same thing. I know I have completely dismissed things Zorndorf says(even the point he was making in this thread, which turns out to be correct) simply because he is who he is. It isn't fair, but he has brought that upon himself.
I also think it's funny that in the very post after yours, I get called a troll.
I edited the troll comment but however, yet again, I am called stupid or an idiot because I like a popular game that millions enjoy.
I find it funny that people cannot seem to understand that many of us who like WOW really do LIKE the game. I like the guild I am in, I enjoy playing WOW with my wife, I find the dungeons and quests fun. I like working on the next achievement or exploring that out of the way place.
I am 33, I am married, college professor, have many other interests, volunteer in my community and have played WOW since release. But I guess I am just stupid because I like something the majority does.
Guess I better run along now and signup to play an MMO with least amount of population out there so I can no longer be seduce by the opiate of the masses that is WOW. Guess I need to be part of a cool, elite crowd in an unpopular game to not be considered stupid...anyone have any recommendations?
Darkfall?
Just because a game is dumbed down enough for the masses doesn't mean it is exclusively for the masses. I already stated I played WoW. Would I be calling myself stupid? I don't know, I would be stupid to do that, so if I was stupid I would be doing that, but if I was smart I wouldn't be. Get it?
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Originally posted by Abrahmm People get treated by the way they present themselves. Zorndorf gets treated the way he does for the reputation he has gained by posting the way he does. If no one is listening to him, even when making a legitimate argument, it is partly his own fault, whether that is right or wrong isn't for me to judge.
Most people on the forums here seem to get treated based on other perceptions of their game allegiance. You are either labeled a fanboi or a troll. However I understand what you are saying and you have a point. I can't say I disagree with it, but at the same time I at least try to read and understand what anyone posts regardless of what I think they sound like. There is only one poster on the forums that I don't read anymore and that is only because she has no concept of what a paragraph is and is more long winded than I am.
The person I was aiming this at (Ventarnias) was ignoring the logic and facts zondorf was presenting (in a rather rational manner mind you), because they simply wanted to bash zondorf for being zondorf. Just look at each of their signatures to see why that is. One defends the holy light and the other is a straw man(?) attack.
Yeah, you are correct, and I am completely guilty of the exact same thing. I know I have completely dismissed things Zorndorf says(even the point he was making in this thread, which turns out to be correct) simply because he is who he is. It isn't fair, but he has brought that upon himself.
I also think it's funny that in the very post after yours, I get called a troll.
I edited the troll comment but however, yet again, I am called stupid or an idiot because I like a popular game that millions enjoy.
I find it funny that people cannot seem to understand that many of us who like WOW really do LIKE the game. I like the guild I am in, I enjoy playing WOW with my wife, I find the dungeons and quests fun. I like working on the next achievement or exploring that out of the way place.
I am 33, I am married, college professor, have many other interests, volunteer in my community and have played WOW since release. But I guess I am just stupid because I like something the majority does.
Guess I better run along now and signup to play an MMO with least amount of population out there so I can no longer be seduce by the opiate of the masses that is WOW. Guess I need to be part of a cool, elite crowd in an unpopular game to not be considered stupid...anyone have any recommendations?
So I love fantasy. But WoW was not my stuff because, ironically, it didn't even take itself seriously as a fantasy world. Haris Pilton, anyone?
His game is now sunken treasure. (See what I did there?) Please tell me you're not bragging about POTBS's demise. Please tell me you won't be happy until its head is on the WoW hunting board.
Here it is again: you are certainly taking yourself VERY serious.
Haris Pilton. The problem is .... you didn't even get to Shat City .... at level 46 you stopped.
So you didn't see HOW she was implemented.
---Haris Pilton is to be found in the "World's End Tavern" of Shat City and she sells an extremely expensive bag....
She sells you a "gigantique bag" .
She is right in front of the rock band that plays at 10.00PM a great rock concert with a crazy drummer and rocking Orcs with magnificent guitar solo's btw.
If you would have seen the way it is implemented, you would have seen this scene alone is worth a visit to Shat alone.
But NO, you read something , you THINK HP, what the fuck and you post garbage about the scene.
Stupid. So stupid.
Play instead of whine. CONSTANTLY I find the BIG holes you have about Wow and still you keep spawning things you don't have a clue about.
Silly really.
If this is how someone that ENJOYS the game explains Haris Pilton, I would hate to see an explanation from someone who doesn't enjoy it.
------------------------------ "Capitalism is currently working as intended."
Did I see someone post they hated EvE because you couldn't leave the cockpit? Omg! Epic lulz at that one.
Could've sworn CCP showed a video with maybe an upcoming update about finally being able to truly land on stations and explore.
EvE also was a good sandbox game. But to me nothing beats pre-nge SwG sandbox.
I tried WoW, wasn't my game....at all. Try to find whatever lies I spew in that statement, but it does hold a standard in MMOs which I feel is what is killing it at the same time.
I just thought i'd point out some flaws of this dude considering he is just defending his game i'll lay off. However, the way he does it does lay on the borderline of mental questioning.....obession to be correct.
Anyways, think this thread has brought some epic laughs in it lol.
I think WoW is now all kids. If their not playing wow then your an out-cast in their schools, Kind of like 5 years ago, you had to have America Online instant messaging.
Kids can play video games just as good as adults, in fact better as they have their entire 5th grade as resources to pick up on things.
However :
1) They quit groups at a drop of a hat ( they never ever complete dungeons, unless an 80 friend runs them ).
2) They know it all, and can't get along with their group.
3) They loot everything.
4) Easy to get to 80 because of quest helper and rings that do everything for you.
I can prove it. Just watch the Stormwind, and Orgrimmar chat !.........I guess it's all ok, I'm done with it.....let them have this one.
I think WoW is now all kids. If their not playing wow then your an out-cast in their schools, Kind of like 5 years ago, you had to have America Online instant messaging. Kids can play video games just as good as adults, in fact better as they have their entire 5th grade as resources to pick up on things. However : 1) They quit groups at a drop of a hat ( they never ever complete dungeons, unless an 80 friend runs them ). 2) They know it all, and can't get along with their group. 3) They loot everything. 4) Easy to get to 80 because of quest helper and rings that do everything for you. I can prove it. Just watch the Stormwind, and Orgrimmar chat !.........I guess it's all ok, I'm done with it.....let them have this one.
So much for that theory. Can't be right all the time right
Contrary to what most people (especially those who left) like to think the game is not full of kids. Heck, even if they were kids when they were started most would be young adults by now.
II guess my good old days are gone, but I must say that Dungeons and Dragons Online has that old school dependability that I once enjoyed, at least last year it was. I think I'll play that !
Going to ignore the WoW talk and just welcome you back to DDO.
The problem with WoW's popularity is that it will naturally attract all manner of players out there. Thinking that you'll log in the game and have a perfect session without hearing about the "doom of mankind", abduction theories, space aliens among us or grouping with a inconsiderate buffoon is just as unrealistic as thinking you won't see anything bad happening in the news today.....not plausible.
And now it's fair to assume that it has drawn a constant crowd of naysayers OUTSIDE the gaming world that is fueled by the success of the game. I'm sure this has broken a record somewhere.....too bad they can't be charged for enjoying their "version" of the game.......
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
You missed my point. I put "truth" in quotation marks to make it clear that you weren't actually telling the truth, but spewing fallacies or just instigating problems.
The truth is very simple.
11.500.000 people PAY to PLAY the game.
Glad you brought this up. Regarding your signature... I think you mean 'played' or perhaps even 'paid' if you are being 'punny'
BTW, haven't seen Blizzard post new numbers recently, you sure there's still 11.5m playing? Whats the date of this figure?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I tried WoW, wasn't my game....at all. Try to find whatever lies I spew in that statement, but it does hold a standard in MMOs which I feel is what is killing it at the same time.
There is nothing wrong with saying a game is not to your liking for personal reasons. It is a very valid statement, but most take things beyond that simple truth and try to build something else out of it. As if anything not tailored to their personal liking is a huge steaming pile of crap.
As to your second statement I think you are incorrect. Wow is setting a standard, but the only reason it is doing so is due to the absolute weakness of its competition. People can only tollerate so many failed launches and poor untested mechanics in a game before they just give up and walk away. There is a large pool of people who are very very interested in playing a non wow game, but when you look at the available options there are rather ugly.
To get people to leave wow another mmo has to offer some incentive to do so. Broken releases, cloned content and less overall options is not going to encourage people to switch. People are tired of waiting for "this game has potential" that never develops. At some point we have to stop blaming blizzard for releasing a quality product and start letting other companies we are tired of their failures.
i personally cant believe theres still 11.5 million playing warcraft after 4 and half years . if there is its really more down to the weakness of the competition than warcrafts strengths . i returned to warcraft for a few months to level up my two characters to 80 . although i enjoyed doing that i found the lich king endgame was pretty awful . most people i know were hoping the latest patch would address the issue of lag in northrend and the general lack of interest in the battle grounds . i dont know if thats improved or not . i m currently playing age of conan which i got very cheaply with a 60 day time card on ebay . so i ll be playing that for the next three months . i m finding it a much improved game ( although i cant comment on its endgame ) . if your bored with wow and want a good fantasy mmo its proberbly the best alternative out there . i dont know weather i shall stay in aoc after i hit 80 or not i may try one of the other fantasy mmos like vanguard or everquest 2 maybe given you can get them so cheaply now . i m in no great hurry to return to wow because blizzard have made so many bad decisions with the game they ve really killed it for me .
I think WoW is now all kids. If their not playing wow then your an out-cast in their schools, Kind of like 5 years ago, you had to have America Online instant messaging. Kids can play video games just as good as adults, in fact better as they have their entire 5th grade as resources to pick up on things. However : 1) They quit groups at a drop of a hat ( they never ever complete dungeons, unless an 80 friend runs them ). 2) They know it all, and can't get along with their group. 3) They loot everything. 4) Easy to get to 80 because of quest helper and rings that do everything for you. I can prove it. Just watch the Stormwind, and Orgrimmar chat !.........I guess it's all ok, I'm done with it.....let them have this one.
No. If you can prove anything, by all means do it and nail your detractors.
Why do you think I posted a scanned copy of my WoW proof of purchase after Zorn (who else?) accused me of not even buying the game?
Kids play Games, adults rarely do, I'm 24 and I feel out of place at times playing MMO's.
You can't be like UGH THIS GAME SUCKS CUS KIDS PLAY IT!
You're the one who is out of your element, kids are SUPOSED to be playing video games.
I agree its frustrating when they drop group and act like selfish brats, but not all children are infact childish. I've played with some MMORPGers who are as young as 13 and they were extremely polite.
Judging ANY group by a few of its members is just flawed logic, you HAVE to play with kids, get used to it or stop playing video games that are online, since Kids like Games and Online = people to play with.
I'm sorry we're just old people in a kids store, we gotta be respectful too.
My first toon was a level 60 rogue, that was the cap at the time, since then I have 2 80's, and thats without quest helper
If everyone wasn't so concerned about who was writing something and instead judged what was being written, they would see that zondorf was spot on correct in flushing this person out for being less than honest.
In the above quote from this thread he claims to have 2 level 80 characters and a level 60 character from before burning crusade.
Then in this thread on January 19th 2009 he/she talks about never getting a character anywhere near the levels that are claimed above, let alone multiple years ago.
I've played WoW on and off for 2 years, this is the first time I went past level 55. I love doing Instances but never did Dire Maul. Before I get a group I like to do some research. However using alakhazam, and Thottbot as my reference for Dire Maul it"s only confusing me more this time.
You have East, West and North along with needing keys. All the walk troughs that I've found seem to be bad.
So can someone give me a good walk through ?
Seems this and upper and lower Black Rock Spier are very un popular because of the hoops you have to jump.
So in this thread the original poster makes all sorts of claims.
Zondorf points out that he/she was only level 40 and not really well informed to make such claims.
Then the original poster claims to have many max level characters, some that date back before any expansion.
Zondorf points out in the original posters history that just a few months ago they had NEVER gotten past level 55 and were still doing old world content.
I know it is easy to have preconceived notions about different posters here for one reason or another, but that doesn't mean ignoring what they say just to poke fun is the right course of action. It looks like zondorf really called this one right on the money and the original poster knew it so they lied to make their street cred look believable.
To recap the matter: There are three posts that are seen as contradicting each other.
First, the OP's initial post, which talks about level 40 and not higher.
Second, the small addition, which talks of a level 60 character when that was the cap, and two level 80's thereafter.
And finally, courtesy of Zorndorf, the January post, in which the OP says he never got a toon above level 55.
To me, the only contradiction I can see is the OP saying he had a level 60 before Burning Crusade, and saying in January that he had never made it past 55. However, I am willing to concede that it was just an oversight on his part instead of an intent do deceive (which is seen as dominating everything around here; did I tell you of that little matter of the $4.86 Canadian Dollars?). What some of the people do on this forum just reeks of paranoia.
Now, to address the other points:
Unless the OP wants to specify what he meant (and unfortunately, parts of the chronology are unclear, but I'd rather attribute that to rushing to write something than an intent to deceive), I will have to assume that he mentioned his level 40 experiences because they became emblematic of what he saw as the game's shortcomings, no matter how much he levelled up afterwards. If I talk extensively about 1995, I don't know why, maybe out of a Bill Clinton fixation, doesn't mean that we're still in 1995.
Three months (between the January post and now) is a lot of time, and I'm pretty sure you can easily finish levelling your old character and get a new one to 80 during that time. Hell, in 6 weeks, I had one from 1 to 46 and I was levelling solo most of the time, and did other things on the side, but my friends, who started playing before me, either got to 80 or close to it because they (1) levelled up together and (2) didn't waste much time doing things on the side like fishing or the economy (and I did both extensively). I even knew some powerleveller people (friends of my friends'), who started playing after me but used every guide and add-on imaginable, and they just shot past me. On one day we were of the same level; three days later they were 5-10 levels ahead. The OP mentions having recruited 6 co-workers, which should have sped up things a bit. So, two characters levelled to 80, including an old one, between January and April? Yep, I can believe that.
Really, I don't know, nor do I care, which game the OP would rather be playing. He supported DDO, while that game isn't exactly known for doing well. Based on his posting history, he also supported Darkfall very recently. I'd never play either of those games, but so what?
Unfortunately, all this talk of how high he levelled to and when just confirms to me that this forum has degenerated into a pecking order based on how high you levelled up, so every piece of argumentation around here is based on trying to pretend the other guy is lying about his maximum level. Sometimes it gets to utterly ridiculous extremes. Me, I was honest to say I had just levelled to 46, but that was enough to dismiss everything I said without addressing any of it; I might as well have pounded on random keys instead of putting together something worthwhile to say. And when a friend of mine showed up here to back me up, not only did they start attacking his credentials as well, but they even went as far as saying he was an alt account of mine -- never mind that he had levelled to 78. Never addressed by anyone: If he had been my alt, and had levelled to 78, why didn't I just say I had levelled to 78 in the first place instead of 46? Ooops.
That's the type of vindictiveness that permeates these boards, and it's, indirectly, all Blizzard's fault for creating such a hierarchic game with new expansions leaving players at the bottom even farther back than they used to be. Why should I get WOTLK as a new player, when it adds nothing to the WoW game world until I reach, what was it, level 59? What's said of every low-level player daring to criticize the game? "Oh, but you haven't levelled up high enough." Nonsense.
The problems that are there at level 20 are still problems, regardless of whether they still are around at level 80. But now it's gotten to the point that the lower levels would be utter drivel that the guys on top wouldn't care, because they've gotten past it (maybe at a time when lower levels weren't garbage so much), so you must, too, before daring to comment. Which means that the problems of new player are swept under the carpet for they pale in comparison to Naxx or whatever. Isn't that your idea of "street cred", after all?
The pecking order is even worse in so-called "hardcore" games, because the first guys to level up usually have it easy and they are spared many of the problems of latecomers. Pirates of the Burning Sea, for instance: It was a great thing to be level 50 as early as possible. You had the best ships, you were welcome to port battles, you got experience in PvP. The later guys? Oh, they levelled to 50 allright, because before that they weren't really welcome in port battles when there were plenty of high-level players waiting for a spot, only to be told they didn't have the experience, or the insanely expensive ships (best in the game) that were necessary to attend port battles. Same thing in PvP situation: Lowbies were useless, and they just provided fodder for the enemy's level 50's. What was your desire, as a lowbie, especially one interested in PvP, to keep on playing a game where you'd be told to level up to 50, then get yourself an expensive First Rate (which cost 10,000,000+ doubloons)? Did those guys stick around? Would they have a reason to stick around?
Same thing with Shadowbane. Top levellers could gank everyone below them. Where's Shadowbane now? (Answer: It just sent invitations to its funeral.) And Darkfall.... those guys didn't even wait for the game to be launched to set up a hierarchy; they established a pecking order according to when you created your forum account.
I see the same problem with WoW. Blizzard is now stacking everything on top instead of building on the sides, which means a new player (1) has no reason to get WOTLK (or, I'm guessing, any further expansion) when starting out; (2) is left further behind (especially on PvP servers, where open-world PvP is pretty much a one-shot, equipment-driven gankfest). The fun is at 80, you say. Well, I'm not going to spend a month or more getting there through the most mind-numbing exercises just so that I might (or might not) have fun.
So your point is that the original posters words are true that he spent 2 years playing the game off and on and never got past level 55. Then somehow in the last few months he leveled 3 characters all the way to 80 and you want to call other peoples judgement into question?
Sure that is possible I guess. Not likely and there have already been holes and lies pointed out, but sure if you want to toss common sense and facts out the window and replace them with speculation by all means feel free.
I think you illustrate more of these forums flaws that all the blame you heap on blizzard and everyone else. The original poster lied. No problem if he doesn't like the game, post away, but that isn't exactly what happened here is it?
Oh thats right, you blame blizzard and the forums posters here and believe the leveling fairy came down and sprinkled magic dust on the OP so he could accomplish something 3 times in 3 months that he could not do in two years. Maybe that play advice he was asking for about dire maul really paid off and put him into overdrive. He must have done it all solo too since all his groups fell apart in ten minutes right?
Comments
If everyone wasn't so concerned about who was writing something and instead judged what was being written, they would see that zondorf was spot on correct in flushing this person out for being less than honest.
In the above quote from this thread he claims to have 2 level 80 characters and a level 60 character from before burning crusade.
Then in this thread on January 19th 2009 he/she talks about never getting a character anywhere near the levels that are claimed above, let alone multiple years ago.
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/15/view/forums/post/2584431#2584431
Hi everyone,
I've played WoW on and off for 2 years, this is the first time I went past level 55. I love doing Instances but never did Dire Maul. Before I get a group I like to do some research. However using alakhazam, and Thottbot as my reference for Dire Maul it"s only confusing me more this time.
You have East, West and North along with needing keys. All the walk troughs that I've found seem to be bad.
So can someone give me a good walk through ?
Seems this and upper and lower Black Rock Spier are very un popular because of the hoops you have to jump.
So in this thread the original poster makes all sorts of claims.
Zondorf points out that he/she was only level 40 and not really well informed to make such claims.
Then the original poster claims to have many max level characters, some that date back before any expansion.
Zondorf points out in the original posters history that just a few months ago they had NEVER gotten past level 55 and were still doing old world content.
I know it is easy to have preconceived notions about different posters here for one reason or another, but that doesn't mean ignoring what they say just to poke fun is the right course of action. It looks like zondorf really called this one right on the money and the original poster knew it so they lied to make their street cred look believable.
People get treated by the way they present themselves. Zorndorf gets treated the way he does for the reputation he has gained by posting the way he does. If no one is listening to him, even when making a legitimate argument, it is partly his own fault, whether that is right or wrong isn't for me to judge.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Most people on the forums here seem to get treated based on other perceptions of their game allegiance. You are either labeled a fanboi or a troll. However I understand what you are saying and you have a point. I can't say I disagree with it, but at the same time I at least try to read and understand what anyone posts regardless of what I think they sound like. There is only one poster on the forums that I don't read anymore and that is only because she has no concept of what a paragraph is and is more long winded than I am.
The person I was aiming this at (Ventarnias) was ignoring the logic and facts zondorf was presenting (in a rather rational manner mind you), because they simply wanted to bash zondorf for being zondorf. Just look at each of their signatures to see why that is. One defends the holy light and the other is a straw man(?) attack.
Most people on the forums here seem to get treated based on other perceptions of their game allegiance. You are either labeled a fanboi or a troll. However I understand what you are saying and you have a point. I can't say I disagree with it, but at the same time I at least try to read and understand what anyone posts regardless of what I think they sound like. There is only one poster on the forums that I don't read anymore and that is only because she has no concept of what a paragraph is and is more long winded than I am.
The person I was aiming this at (Ventarnias) was ignoring the logic and facts zondorf was presenting (in a rather rational manner mind you), because they simply wanted to bash zondorf for being zondorf. Just look at each of their signatures to see why that is. One defends the holy light and the other is a straw man(?) attack.
Yeah, you are correct, and I am completely guilty of the exact same thing. I know I have completely dismissed things Zorndorf says(even the point he was making in this thread, which turns out to be correct) simply because he is who he is. It isn't fair, but he has brought that upon himself.
I also think it's funny that in the very post after yours, I get called a troll.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
It's funny you should say it this way, because that was exactly how I felt about it. I played WoW for a little while, and enjoyed it while I played. But looking back, that is exactly how I feel about it. I feel like I was "suckered" in to playing the game. It's an odd feeling to have about a game really. I feel like I gave some homeless guy $20 and now realize he is just going to buy booze with it. I feel like the entire premise of WoW is simply to trick people into spending as much time as possible playing the game. The entire idea of grinding out instances/raids/battlegrounds/arenas in order to get better gear, only to do it again in a slighly more difficult setting in order to get better gear yet, rinse and repeat, just feels coercing. The "carrot on a stick" motto really sums up the feeling for me. Is it a correct view? I don't know, but it's the way I feel about it.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Most people on the forums here seem to get treated based on other perceptions of their game allegiance. You are either labeled a fanboi or a troll. However I understand what you are saying and you have a point. I can't say I disagree with it, but at the same time I at least try to read and understand what anyone posts regardless of what I think they sound like. There is only one poster on the forums that I don't read anymore and that is only because she has no concept of what a paragraph is and is more long winded than I am.
The person I was aiming this at (Ventarnias) was ignoring the logic and facts zondorf was presenting (in a rather rational manner mind you), because they simply wanted to bash zondorf for being zondorf. Just look at each of their signatures to see why that is. One defends the holy light and the other is a straw man(?) attack.
Yeah, you are correct, and I am completely guilty of the exact same thing. I know I have completely dismissed things Zorndorf says(even the point he was making in this thread, which turns out to be correct) simply because he is who he is. It isn't fair, but he has brought that upon himself.
I also think it's funny that in the very post after yours, I get called a troll.
I edited the troll comment but however, yet again, I am called stupid or an idiot because I like a popular game that millions enjoy.
I find it funny that people cannot seem to understand that many of us who like WOW really do LIKE the game. I like the guild I am in, I enjoy playing WOW with my wife, I find the dungeons and quests fun. I like working on the next achievement or exploring that out of the way place.
I am 33, I am married, college professor, have many other interests, volunteer in my community and have played WOW since release. But I guess I am just stupid because I like something the majority does.
Guess I better run along now and signup to play an MMO with least amount of population out there so I can no longer be seduce by the opiate of the masses that is WOW. Guess I need to be part of a cool, elite crowd in an unpopular game to not be considered stupid...anyone have any recommendations?
Darkfall?
Just because a game is dumbed down enough for the masses doesn't mean it is exclusively for the masses. I already stated I played WoW. Would I be calling myself stupid? I don't know, I would be stupid to do that, so if I was stupid I would be doing that, but if I was smart I wouldn't be. Get it?
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I like pie.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Most people on the forums here seem to get treated based on other perceptions of their game allegiance. You are either labeled a fanboi or a troll. However I understand what you are saying and you have a point. I can't say I disagree with it, but at the same time I at least try to read and understand what anyone posts regardless of what I think they sound like. There is only one poster on the forums that I don't read anymore and that is only because she has no concept of what a paragraph is and is more long winded than I am.
The person I was aiming this at (Ventarnias) was ignoring the logic and facts zondorf was presenting (in a rather rational manner mind you), because they simply wanted to bash zondorf for being zondorf. Just look at each of their signatures to see why that is. One defends the holy light and the other is a straw man(?) attack.
Yeah, you are correct, and I am completely guilty of the exact same thing. I know I have completely dismissed things Zorndorf says(even the point he was making in this thread, which turns out to be correct) simply because he is who he is. It isn't fair, but he has brought that upon himself.
I also think it's funny that in the very post after yours, I get called a troll.
I edited the troll comment but however, yet again, I am called stupid or an idiot because I like a popular game that millions enjoy.
I find it funny that people cannot seem to understand that many of us who like WOW really do LIKE the game. I like the guild I am in, I enjoy playing WOW with my wife, I find the dungeons and quests fun. I like working on the next achievement or exploring that out of the way place.
I am 33, I am married, college professor, have many other interests, volunteer in my community and have played WOW since release. But I guess I am just stupid because I like something the majority does.
Guess I better run along now and signup to play an MMO with least amount of population out there so I can no longer be seduce by the opiate of the masses that is WOW. Guess I need to be part of a cool, elite crowd in an unpopular game to not be considered stupid...anyone have any recommendations?
Screen shot or It never happened.
Here it is again: you are certainly taking yourself VERY serious.
Haris Pilton. The problem is .... you didn't even get to Shat City .... at level 46 you stopped.
So you didn't see HOW she was implemented.
---Haris Pilton is to be found in the "World's End Tavern" of Shat City and she sells an extremely expensive bag....
She sells you a "gigantique bag" .
She is right in front of the rock band that plays at 10.00PM a great rock concert with a crazy drummer and rocking Orcs with magnificent guitar solo's btw.
If you would have seen the way it is implemented, you would have seen this scene alone is worth a visit to Shat alone.
But NO, you read something , you THINK HP, what the fuck and you post garbage about the scene.
Stupid. So stupid.
Play instead of whine. CONSTANTLY I find the BIG holes you have about Wow and still you keep spawning things you don't have a clue about.
Silly really.
If this is how someone that ENJOYS the game explains Haris Pilton, I would hate to see an explanation from someone who doesn't enjoy it.
------------------------------
"Capitalism is currently working as intended."
Did I see someone post they hated EvE because you couldn't leave the cockpit? Omg! Epic lulz at that one.
Could've sworn CCP showed a video with maybe an upcoming update about finally being able to truly land on stations and explore.
EvE also was a good sandbox game. But to me nothing beats pre-nge SwG sandbox.
I tried WoW, wasn't my game....at all. Try to find whatever lies I spew in that statement, but it does hold a standard in MMOs which I feel is what is killing it at the same time.
I just thought i'd point out some flaws of this dude considering he is just defending his game i'll lay off. However, the way he does it does lay on the borderline of mental questioning.....obession to be correct.
Anyways, think this thread has brought some epic laughs in it lol.
I think WoW is now all kids. If their not playing wow then your an out-cast in their schools, Kind of like 5 years ago, you had to have America Online instant messaging.
Kids can play video games just as good as adults, in fact better as they have their entire 5th grade as resources to pick up on things.
However :
1) They quit groups at a drop of a hat ( they never ever complete dungeons, unless an 80 friend runs them ).
2) They know it all, and can't get along with their group.
3) They loot everything.
4) Easy to get to 80 because of quest helper and rings that do everything for you.
I can prove it. Just watch the Stormwind, and Orgrimmar chat !.........I guess it's all ok, I'm done with it.....let them have this one.
Nielsen-WoW Majority over 25
So much for that theory. Can't be right all the time right
Contrary to what most people (especially those who left) like to think the game is not full of kids. Heck, even if they were kids when they were started most would be young adults by now.
Going to ignore the WoW talk and just welcome you back to DDO.
The problem with WoW's popularity is that it will naturally attract all manner of players out there. Thinking that you'll log in the game and have a perfect session without hearing about the "doom of mankind", abduction theories, space aliens among us or grouping with a inconsiderate buffoon is just as unrealistic as thinking you won't see anything bad happening in the news today.....not plausible.
And now it's fair to assume that it has drawn a constant crowd of naysayers OUTSIDE the gaming world that is fueled by the success of the game. I'm sure this has broken a record somewhere.....too bad they can't be charged for enjoying their "version" of the game.......
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
The truth is very simple.
11.500.000 people PAY to PLAY the game.
Glad you brought this up. Regarding your signature... I think you mean 'played' or perhaps even 'paid' if you are being 'punny'
BTW, haven't seen Blizzard post new numbers recently, you sure there's still 11.5m playing? Whats the date of this figure?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is nothing wrong with saying a game is not to your liking for personal reasons. It is a very valid statement, but most take things beyond that simple truth and try to build something else out of it. As if anything not tailored to their personal liking is a huge steaming pile of crap.
As to your second statement I think you are incorrect. Wow is setting a standard, but the only reason it is doing so is due to the absolute weakness of its competition. People can only tollerate so many failed launches and poor untested mechanics in a game before they just give up and walk away. There is a large pool of people who are very very interested in playing a non wow game, but when you look at the available options there are rather ugly.
To get people to leave wow another mmo has to offer some incentive to do so. Broken releases, cloned content and less overall options is not going to encourage people to switch. People are tired of waiting for "this game has potential" that never develops. At some point we have to stop blaming blizzard for releasing a quality product and start letting other companies we are tired of their failures.
i personally cant believe theres still 11.5 million playing warcraft after 4 and half years . if there is its really more down to the weakness of the competition than warcrafts strengths . i returned to warcraft for a few months to level up my two characters to 80 . although i enjoyed doing that i found the lich king endgame was pretty awful . most people i know were hoping the latest patch would address the issue of lag in northrend and the general lack of interest in the battle grounds . i dont know if thats improved or not . i m currently playing age of conan which i got very cheaply with a 60 day time card on ebay . so i ll be playing that for the next three months . i m finding it a much improved game ( although i cant comment on its endgame ) . if your bored with wow and want a good fantasy mmo its proberbly the best alternative out there . i dont know weather i shall stay in aoc after i hit 80 or not i may try one of the other fantasy mmos like vanguard or everquest 2 maybe given you can get them so cheaply now . i m in no great hurry to return to wow because blizzard have made so many bad decisions with the game they ve really killed it for me .
No. If you can prove anything, by all means do it and nail your detractors.
Why do you think I posted a scanned copy of my WoW proof of purchase after Zorn (who else?) accused me of not even buying the game?
Kids play Games, adults rarely do, I'm 24 and I feel out of place at times playing MMO's.
You can't be like UGH THIS GAME SUCKS CUS KIDS PLAY IT!
You're the one who is out of your element, kids are SUPOSED to be playing video games.
I agree its frustrating when they drop group and act like selfish brats, but not all children are infact childish. I've played with some MMORPGers who are as young as 13 and they were extremely polite.
Judging ANY group by a few of its members is just flawed logic, you HAVE to play with kids, get used to it or stop playing video games that are online, since Kids like Games and Online = people to play with.
I'm sorry we're just old people in a kids store, we gotta be respectful too.
If everyone wasn't so concerned about who was writing something and instead judged what was being written, they would see that zondorf was spot on correct in flushing this person out for being less than honest.
In the above quote from this thread he claims to have 2 level 80 characters and a level 60 character from before burning crusade.
Then in this thread on January 19th 2009 he/she talks about never getting a character anywhere near the levels that are claimed above, let alone multiple years ago.
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/15/view/forums/post/2584431#2584431
Hi everyone,
I've played WoW on and off for 2 years, this is the first time I went past level 55. I love doing Instances but never did Dire Maul. Before I get a group I like to do some research. However using alakhazam, and Thottbot as my reference for Dire Maul it"s only confusing me more this time.
You have East, West and North along with needing keys. All the walk troughs that I've found seem to be bad.
So can someone give me a good walk through ?
Seems this and upper and lower Black Rock Spier are very un popular because of the hoops you have to jump.
So in this thread the original poster makes all sorts of claims.
Zondorf points out that he/she was only level 40 and not really well informed to make such claims.
Then the original poster claims to have many max level characters, some that date back before any expansion.
Zondorf points out in the original posters history that just a few months ago they had NEVER gotten past level 55 and were still doing old world content.
I know it is easy to have preconceived notions about different posters here for one reason or another, but that doesn't mean ignoring what they say just to poke fun is the right course of action. It looks like zondorf really called this one right on the money and the original poster knew it so they lied to make their street cred look believable.
To recap the matter: There are three posts that are seen as contradicting each other.
First, the OP's initial post, which talks about level 40 and not higher.
Second, the small addition, which talks of a level 60 character when that was the cap, and two level 80's thereafter.
And finally, courtesy of Zorndorf, the January post, in which the OP says he never got a toon above level 55.
To me, the only contradiction I can see is the OP saying he had a level 60 before Burning Crusade, and saying in January that he had never made it past 55. However, I am willing to concede that it was just an oversight on his part instead of an intent do deceive (which is seen as dominating everything around here; did I tell you of that little matter of the $4.86 Canadian Dollars?). What some of the people do on this forum just reeks of paranoia.
Now, to address the other points:
Unless the OP wants to specify what he meant (and unfortunately, parts of the chronology are unclear, but I'd rather attribute that to rushing to write something than an intent to deceive), I will have to assume that he mentioned his level 40 experiences because they became emblematic of what he saw as the game's shortcomings, no matter how much he levelled up afterwards. If I talk extensively about 1995, I don't know why, maybe out of a Bill Clinton fixation, doesn't mean that we're still in 1995.
Three months (between the January post and now) is a lot of time, and I'm pretty sure you can easily finish levelling your old character and get a new one to 80 during that time. Hell, in 6 weeks, I had one from 1 to 46 and I was levelling solo most of the time, and did other things on the side, but my friends, who started playing before me, either got to 80 or close to it because they (1) levelled up together and (2) didn't waste much time doing things on the side like fishing or the economy (and I did both extensively). I even knew some powerleveller people (friends of my friends'), who started playing after me but used every guide and add-on imaginable, and they just shot past me. On one day we were of the same level; three days later they were 5-10 levels ahead. The OP mentions having recruited 6 co-workers, which should have sped up things a bit. So, two characters levelled to 80, including an old one, between January and April? Yep, I can believe that.
Really, I don't know, nor do I care, which game the OP would rather be playing. He supported DDO, while that game isn't exactly known for doing well. Based on his posting history, he also supported Darkfall very recently. I'd never play either of those games, but so what?
Unfortunately, all this talk of how high he levelled to and when just confirms to me that this forum has degenerated into a pecking order based on how high you levelled up, so every piece of argumentation around here is based on trying to pretend the other guy is lying about his maximum level. Sometimes it gets to utterly ridiculous extremes. Me, I was honest to say I had just levelled to 46, but that was enough to dismiss everything I said without addressing any of it; I might as well have pounded on random keys instead of putting together something worthwhile to say. And when a friend of mine showed up here to back me up, not only did they start attacking his credentials as well, but they even went as far as saying he was an alt account of mine -- never mind that he had levelled to 78. Never addressed by anyone: If he had been my alt, and had levelled to 78, why didn't I just say I had levelled to 78 in the first place instead of 46? Ooops.
That's the type of vindictiveness that permeates these boards, and it's, indirectly, all Blizzard's fault for creating such a hierarchic game with new expansions leaving players at the bottom even farther back than they used to be. Why should I get WOTLK as a new player, when it adds nothing to the WoW game world until I reach, what was it, level 59? What's said of every low-level player daring to criticize the game? "Oh, but you haven't levelled up high enough." Nonsense.
The problems that are there at level 20 are still problems, regardless of whether they still are around at level 80. But now it's gotten to the point that the lower levels would be utter drivel that the guys on top wouldn't care, because they've gotten past it (maybe at a time when lower levels weren't garbage so much), so you must, too, before daring to comment. Which means that the problems of new player are swept under the carpet for they pale in comparison to Naxx or whatever. Isn't that your idea of "street cred", after all?
The pecking order is even worse in so-called "hardcore" games, because the first guys to level up usually have it easy and they are spared many of the problems of latecomers. Pirates of the Burning Sea, for instance: It was a great thing to be level 50 as early as possible. You had the best ships, you were welcome to port battles, you got experience in PvP. The later guys? Oh, they levelled to 50 allright, because before that they weren't really welcome in port battles when there were plenty of high-level players waiting for a spot, only to be told they didn't have the experience, or the insanely expensive ships (best in the game) that were necessary to attend port battles. Same thing in PvP situation: Lowbies were useless, and they just provided fodder for the enemy's level 50's. What was your desire, as a lowbie, especially one interested in PvP, to keep on playing a game where you'd be told to level up to 50, then get yourself an expensive First Rate (which cost 10,000,000+ doubloons)? Did those guys stick around? Would they have a reason to stick around?
Same thing with Shadowbane. Top levellers could gank everyone below them. Where's Shadowbane now? (Answer: It just sent invitations to its funeral.) And Darkfall.... those guys didn't even wait for the game to be launched to set up a hierarchy; they established a pecking order according to when you created your forum account.
I see the same problem with WoW. Blizzard is now stacking everything on top instead of building on the sides, which means a new player (1) has no reason to get WOTLK (or, I'm guessing, any further expansion) when starting out; (2) is left further behind (especially on PvP servers, where open-world PvP is pretty much a one-shot, equipment-driven gankfest). The fun is at 80, you say. Well, I'm not going to spend a month or more getting there through the most mind-numbing exercises just so that I might (or might not) have fun.
So your point is that the original posters words are true that he spent 2 years playing the game off and on and never got past level 55. Then somehow in the last few months he leveled 3 characters all the way to 80 and you want to call other peoples judgement into question?
Sure that is possible I guess. Not likely and there have already been holes and lies pointed out, but sure if you want to toss common sense and facts out the window and replace them with speculation by all means feel free.
I think you illustrate more of these forums flaws that all the blame you heap on blizzard and everyone else. The original poster lied. No problem if he doesn't like the game, post away, but that isn't exactly what happened here is it?
Oh thats right, you blame blizzard and the forums posters here and believe the leveling fairy came down and sprinkled magic dust on the OP so he could accomplish something 3 times in 3 months that he could not do in two years. Maybe that play advice he was asking for about dire maul really paid off and put him into overdrive. He must have done it all solo too since all his groups fell apart in ten minutes right?
After reading the OP all I feel like saying is... poor baby