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Another days since last paid site has popped up!
Agricola1
Member UncommonPosts: 4,977
Just been sent a link to this site click, seems team Whiting maybe abandoning ship given this and the fact they're selling all the non-toxic assests to eachother!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Comments
Think Supremeaaron will change the score in his signature? Naaaah. He didn't count the rumors of no pay being true the first time even though he counted the delinquent payments as a point on the side of fanOri, so he won't count this either.
Geeked for FFXIV
Freelance FFXIV guide author for Ten Ton Hammer.com
I'm not saying it is or isn't genuine but did you ever think maybe this new site thats popped up could have been created by someone else just to cause more of a stir???
I think it has been created by someone to cause a stir, the question is as to wether Whiting has actually defaulted on company payroll again. In my opinion I'd say it's probably true since there are many unrelated sources telling the same story.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I hear CME is still having funding problems and they are probabably late on payroll again. They must have one great dev team to stay so loyal when the company is unable to pay them.
This is probably the one way that the economy helps CME... jobs in the gaming industry are probably a bit harder to find, particularly in the local area.
Think Supremeaaron will change the score in his signature? Naaaah. He didn't count the rumors of no pay being true the first time even though he counted the delinquent payments as a point on the side of fanOri, so he won't count this either.
LOL just cause I show hope in the game. I am very much afraid for SGW being finished like others but I keep the faith. I dont agree with what Gary has done to CME. But heck I dont care about the score thing I have on my sig really.
Sweet. Then you wouldn't mind adding a +1 for the naysayers? If the payment of Auruspex counts as a good thing, surely the lack of payment for him (which was largely discounted as bogus for a long time) must count as a bad thing.
It means there at least WAS a problem at one point, right? And all of the people (like me) who came into SGW forum to ask for answers from CME and got absolutely tarred and feathered by you, Loheat, Lisentia, DrLove and others--maybe we weren't just jerks and trolls. Maybe we asked because we were concerned?
I'm just saying to give it some thought. It's one thing to be positive and want something to succeed. It is entirely another to drive away people from the game just because they do not share your enthusiasm, you know?
Like, I won't even sign in on the SGW forums anymore because of the constant attacks from Lisentia. She'd come into every thread where I posted and call me a liar and rumor monger in a roundabout way.
I PMed snow about it and Lisentia was banned for a few days, but by then I had given up. I felt like I was being lied to by the orange names there and was tired of defending myself for wanting real, concrete answers.
Hell, Lisentia even went over to Ten Ton Hammer (where I lurk but almost never post) and called all of the people there liars, selfish, shady business people (not her exact words) over the CME gift fund thing.
Like, the lady is OBSESSED with trying to make the rumors not be true. Her intentions are honorable, but it makes the lot of you (the hardcore fans) look like rabid attack dogs who are too stupid or too unwilling to look at things objectively.
I know. I know. What I say doesn't matter. I thought I would at least try to appeal to reason. That failing, visit a few other beta forums (SW:TOR, Mortal Online, Champions, whatever). See how many of them have such rumors about the practices of the Chairman, the payment of employees, etc. The economy is bad for everybody, yes, but the stuff we hear about CME is pretty unique.
Geeked for FFXIV
Freelance FFXIV guide author for Ten Ton Hammer.com
Sweet. Then you wouldn't mind adding a +1 for the naysayers? If the payment of Auruspex counts as a good thing, surely the lack of payment for him (which was largely discounted as bogus for a long time) must count as a bad thing.
It means there at least WAS a problem at one point, right? And all of the people (like me) who came into SGW forum to ask for answers from CME and got absolutely tarred and feathered by you, Loheat, Lisentia, DrLove and others--maybe we weren't just jerks and trolls. Maybe we asked because we were concerned?
I'm just saying to give it some thought. It's one thing to be positive and want something to succeed. It is entirely another to drive away people from the game just because they do not share your enthusiasm, you know?
Like, I won't even sign in on the SGW forums anymore because of the constant attacks from Lisentia. She'd come into every thread where I posted and call me a liar and rumor monger in a roundabout way.
I PMed snow about it and Lisentia was banned for a few days, but by then I had given up. I felt like I was being lied to by the orange names there and was tired of defending myself for wanting real, concrete answers.
Hell, Lisentia even went over to Ten Ton Hammer (where I lurk but almost never post) and called all of the people there liars, selfish, shady business people (not her exact words) over the CME gift fund thing.
Like, the lady is OBSESSED with trying to make the rumors not be true. Her intentions are honorable, but it makes the lot of you (the hardcore fans) look like rabid attack dogs who are too stupid or too unwilling to look at things objectively.
I know. I know. What I say doesn't matter. I thought I would at least try to appeal to reason. That failing, visit a few other beta forums (SW:TOR, Mortal Online, Champions, whatever). See how many of them have such rumors about the practices of the Chairman, the payment of employees, etc. The economy is bad for everybody, yes, but the stuff we hear about CME is pretty unique.
The sgw forums is not the place to be asking CME about their behind the scenes operating problems and any normal person with a bit of logic would understand this.
I see on both sides of the fence are in the wrong
1. trying to question CME on their private matters
2. attacking each other on sgw forums
If you want to know whats going on then contact them via email and if they want to reply they will but I suggest you keep it out of the sgw forums at least. I too dislike the management at cme but you don't see me wanting to plaster their private dealings or question them on their own forums on everything which I believe is bad but also non of my business.
Agricola1 - You were so quick (and gleeful) to jump on this, will you jump so fast when CME get current on their payroll again? You are so dang happy to see them fail. You can hate Gary Whiting (and for good reason) but remember that a lot of good folks still work there and see enough positives to see this through. The least you could do is show them some respect. And don't forget that it's not entire uncommon for a startup to go through this. CME isn't your enemy, it's a company full of funny intellegent and loyal people. Don't you have better things to do?
Who had 4 years and $50 million dollars to build an MMO. And couldn't get it done. Can't blame Gary for lack of funding, CME had more than enough funding. Somewhere between the funny and loyal and the $50 million, something went horribly terribly wrong.
Agricola1 - You were so quick (and gleeful) to jump on this, will you jump so fast when CME get current on their payroll again? You are so dang happy to see them fail. You can hate Gary Whiting (and for good reason) but remember that a lot of good folks still work there and see enough positives to see this through. The least you could do is show them some respect. And don't forget that it's not entire uncommon for a startup to go through this. CME isn't your enemy, it's a company full of funny intellegent and loyal people. Don't you have better things to do?
I sacrifice live chickens on my special altar of SGW hate each night in thanks and then perform sadistic and evil ceremonies as I dance through the night in a voodoo trance naked spraying blood over captured naked CME staff chained to my wall. I'll be inviting Boy George and a few of his mates around tonight with a vast selection of bike chains to take out my pent up aggression on them and sacrifice once agian to our lord Satan. And all because Gary Whiting used to beat me up at school.
/sarcasm off
Happy to see CME fail? No I wanted to play SGW as much as anyone, I saw great potential in this game.
Have a problem with CME staff? The developers, no. There were/are talented people working at CME but it makes no difference in the end if you have a guy in charge that knows as much about MMORPGs/computer games as a lobotomised Chimp with senility. Also please point out where I've been abusive or pointed the finger at the developers of this game, to my knowledge I haven't.
I want SGW to happen and I don't think people working on SGW should have to go through missed paychecks and being recruited to pyramid schemes while trying to create it. It just doesn't make a good working enviroment. I want to see team Whiting out and someone taking over with experience in managing this kind of venture and get it done.
CME doesn't have the money or the manpower to get a half decent game done now. I think it's inevitable that since they're $40 mil in the hole and Whiting has managed to migrate that cash to now seperate companies, CME will be going bankrupt or just shut down soon. MGM will probably pull the license due to the fact that they have assertained CME can't get the game done. After that CME is no more, they have no money, no staff and finally no license therefore no product.
I have nothing against anyone working there that isn't in managment as I believe the dead flesh is in upper managment and the board of directors. I don't hate anyone, even Whiting, he's a snake oil salesman trying to make a dishonest living during an economic crisis and that's his business. But I'd prefer if he didn't conduct his pyramid scheme shenanigans in the MMORPG industry, it's a hobby of mine and I find his presence in it distasteful.
Do I have better things to do? While I'm on these forums reading your post and that of others, in short no.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Who had 4 years and $50 million dollars to build an MMO. And couldn't get it done. Can't blame Gary for lack of funding, CME had more than enough funding. Somewhere between the funny and loyal and the $50 million, something went horribly terribly wrong.
The $50 million would have covered SGW, but when you build multiple studios, complete with marketing & publishing support, all filled with heavy top-down management and no product.... yeah. Superstition Stuidos & Handcranked both have been around for 2.5 years (- cough - playing WOW all day -cough-) and I have yet to see anything public released for what they are working on.
As far as the somewhere between funny and loyal, if I had to put my finger on it I would call it "Mormon". If you dig around on linked in, you'll find many with questionable qualifications, in amazing positions -- some with this gig as their first real game job.
That's not entirely true. Hand Cranked never did do much of anything that's for sure and certainly many of HC employees spent all day playing other games as "research". The Superstition Studios team however is one of the best organized and hardest working at CME. They produced a working prototype of their project in less than 3 months with a half dozen employees, that's nearly a year faster than the SGW team did with over 30 employees. They met their milestones (every one) and even after being retasked (CME couldn't pay the engine license for their project, correction, CME *defaulted* on the payment) immediately whipped up a new prototype for a different game and to my knowledge are still working on bringing that product to market.
Unfortunately for Superstition they were the red headed step child. No one on SGW wanted another game studio, especially one that could deliver on budget, on time and faster. All the other studios are perceived to be financial drains on the ability to get SGW done. To be fair, those studios were. While SS is a great studio with good people, it's leadership was on board at CME for nearly 6 months before getting the greenlight to grow and start a project. So that's 6 months of sr. executive/studio head pay going down the tubes for no good reason (another upper management bad planning/decision making thing).
The counter has been removed, and this site now says "I'm done here"
Geeked for FFXIV
Freelance FFXIV guide author for Ten Ton Hammer.com
CME is the result of management that graduated ITT business school and Programmers from DeVry University LOL...
We always knew if grads from these two schools ever got together it would be an utter disaster.. now we know!
Make a difference!
Hmmmm, why didn't Agricola announce that?!? So quick to jump on the bad news but never willing to talk about the good. Why do some people want others to fail so badly? I realize that the counter being removed means nothing (I have not idea if they are current on their payroll), I'm just pointing out how badly this dude wants SGW to fail (or at least how much he likes drama).
Its funny, if you had actually read any of Agricola's posts, you would have known he never wanted SGW to fail. I'm not sure how anyone can think this game is in a good state seeing employees not being paid, pyramid schemes, outright lies about the state of the game(anyone who's seen beta footage knows it was more like alpha, if that), and all the other bs that CME has drug Stargate through.
Oh and just FYI, that statement "I'm done here" could also be taken as the employee who had the website up, quit CME. See what I did there.
Frankly, I would not take the closing (and now disappearance) of that site positively.
If it were positive, and they got paid, I would have expected a cheerier line. But "I'm done here" suggests to me that they are completely disgusted, and could have even quit.
This is pure speculation on my part, but I had a thought today: could the person who set up the site have been Dan Elggren?
Hmmmm, why didn't Agricola announce that?!? So quick to jump on the bad news but never willing to talk about the good. Why do some people want others to fail so badly? I realize that the counter being removed means nothing (I have not idea if they are current on their payroll), I'm just pointing out how badly this dude wants SGW to fail (or at least how much he likes drama).
I undesrstand where you're coming from but I look at it this way, no matter what I want CME has failed. Team Whiting has failed and SGW is not going to hit the market unless the dead flesh is cut off this project and someone else comes along and allows it to continue properly.
Conflict allows change, without conflict the status quo remains and nothing changes. Why didn't I jump on it? I have a good idea of the circumstances around the site closing, though I'm not 100% certain. So I'd rather not comment on the reason why it closed and the meaning behind that message. All I know is that it certainly isn't positive, and it isn't funny to watch CME employees and their families suffering because of a buching of egotistical, incompetent, pricks being lead by a boss with galloping meglomania.
I think every single employee at CME should just say "I'm done here" and find another job. Flipping burgers pays better than MMOGULs memberships, false hope and bullshit any day! The sooner team Whiting goes the sooner we can either close this sad chapter in the MMORPG industry or get on with completeing a game I'd like to play.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I tried to access the website today and it took me here: http://www.webs.com/abuseFrozen.htm
Geeked for FFXIV
Freelance FFXIV guide author for Ten Ton Hammer.com
Looks like Gary must have threatened the webmaster.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I think it's far more likely that this is a standard process when the owner stops subscribing for a page. It was taken down by the owner sometime before 5/10, and I bet payment has lapsed.
Why would it say "abuse" rather than "non-payment/expired" like most other sites do when you don't pay then?
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Laziness?
In any case, there's been nothing on the site for a month now (I presume, though I suppose something might have been put up inappropriately, either with or without the (former) owner's permission).