I don't like ffapvp at all, with or without looting. I've always preferred faction based pvp, rvr like daoc.
Same here.
Personally, I don't mind PvP, but I'd rather have a reason behind it, like factional warfare or RvR. FFA PvP, especially with full player loot, just feels like pointless, mindless killing just because you can, at least to me. If I'm going to fight another player, I need control of a territory or some other faction/RP based reason behind WHY I'm fighting them for it to make more sense to me.
Killing him and taking his stuff just because he's there is boring, IMO. After that, what's the point of playing the game? To get more gear so you can have it on hand for the next time you get ganked? Yawn. It just sounds like a meaningless time sink to me.
I would have to agree with you. I find it more fun to just have the battle lines drawn and then we have at it.
Edit: LOL! you responded to my other post. lol ok atleast you realize that FFApvp/sandbox mmo players have a reason to pvp.
Oh I more than realize what ffa pvp is. I played Lineage 2 for over 4 years. At it's best it was clan vs clan/alliance vs alliance.
At it's worst it was whole groups of people looking for single kills and then insulting them afterward.
It's the latter that keeps certain people from playing many pvp games.
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I've been running into this alot lately in Eve and I used to run into this in UO also. I would get a long list of buddies then later find out that over half of them were just straight up too scared to venture into FFA areas. It's only a videogame guys, please take advantage of a game and its FFApvp mechanic. I can understand if you dont like FFApvp thats not what this is about. Im talking about the players that play these games and stay in a safe area all day... forever. In Eve these guys either stay in high sec space 100% or pay rent to some 0.0 alliance and are basically even safer in this area of the game then the high sec guys. They all miss out on so much of the game by doing this, it kills me. When my very own buddies do this it kills me even more. last week I let a friend use my Alt account to come with me to low sec and mess a few people up (or try LOL!) Since that day he's been skilling up his main for Frig pvp in low sec and thanks me everytime he sees me. Basically saying "Bro, If it wasn't for you I would be running missions forever like a pussy". Guys please stop being afraid and this just doesnt go for Eve this goes for any game with some type of risky pvp. We have a few games coming out soon that will use this FFA mechanic how are you going to take advantage of these new games if your too afraid to experience the best parts???
And again im talking about the people that play these games and actually like the idea of FFA but are too afraid to lose gear and money Not the guys that hate pvp and dont think pvp with risk is fun.
Thanks for reading.
I think there are simply 3 categories of payers. There is more to consider, Im sure, but the way I've perceived it is:
1. Those that like theme-park entertainment and whom are not socially competitive, but enjoy more social interaction, and will not get involved in personal conflict at any time that remotely conflicts with the disruption of their enjoyment of being in a virtual world to explore and just concentrate on their avatar.
2. There's the variation of #1 where the player enjoys part-time, limited competitive player interaction on their own terms to control their sence of loss or win as it relates to their disposition at the time.
3. A competitive player that enjoys an immersive, player-compteitive environment that keeps them on the edge of their seat, knowing that the openess of the world and freedom is player-driven rather than computer-controlled.
I would never say it won't work in the mainstream but that's only because Blizzard hasn't tried it.
All the other MMOs that did try it have had major design and development issues to go with the added frustration of losing everything. It may not be so much that the concept doesn't work, it's just never been approached by a quality developer.
Ultima Online had safe zone and also had a flag system.You need to protect newbies from veteran murderer that will and only want to grief the noob one for easy stuff.A free for all PVp with no consequence has no meaning in a Role Playing game.Some folk seem to forget often the meaning of *role Playing Game* . It's not a first person shooter .
I was killed and looted and it's was my own fault in UO . But i knew that the murderer had not a easy life either.He was hunted by Anti-PK's and if he died , it would be tough for him.So i accepted it , because yes it's was rewarding killing noob like myself , but the guy was a target for many people.I did it . I basicly killed hundred of noob .Looted thousand of Iron,wood and black sandalss lol . I was rich by doing it . But i was also hunted and someday killed.I did not wait.I took the stat loss like a man .But who care? I was rich like hell.Thanks to all the newbies i looted.I would /hide close to the popular spot and wait at the good moment to attack.It's was helluva fun to hears all the blue Kal or Por when my red name popped in their perception of view.
When i was killed.It's was by someone mining by minoc.He trapped me because he was not so noobish and he opened a portal and some of his friend helped him.I talked to them in ghost mode and told em.Congrats for killing me , but i'm already rich fool .I will be back in no time!
But i decided to quit anyway . Because of trammel (i quit before trammel) .
FFA pvp in a theme park game suck suck and re-suck more.Just look at Age of Fail.
Well, OP, you need to realize that you're appealing to a subset of a subset.
I personally love PvP. That's my #1, #2, and #3 criteria for a MMORPG at the moment. Do you know what game I play if I really want some PvP action, though?
Not a MMORPG.
There are far more players who love PvP than even play MMORPG's total, I'd reckon. They simply play games which don't force you to engage in retarded grinds to get to the part they enjoy. They play shooters and strategy games. That's me. My favorite MMO of all time was Planetside, followed by Guild Wars, and if I had to pick a third, it would be Spellborn even though I've barely played it. You'll notice that these are all games with very little to no level grind, almost no itemization to speak of, and almost no "loot" systems.
That's your first hurdle, imo. The guys and gals who simply love to mash it up in PvP are going to play a game which is specifically designed around doing just that.
The second hurdle you face is simply the nature of your game. Whether you like it or not, EvE needs it carebears. EvE is really PvP + economic simulator. Do you think it's the hardcore strategists or super-skilled-up pilots from BoB (or w/e the fuck they're calling themselves now) or Goonw/e are the ones manufacturing the shit you use or harvesting the mats to make it? Nah. It's mostly their pet carebears who just want to hump an asteroid and make a Godly Engine of the Whale. They like doing that, so all the more power to them. As long as EvE needs players like that, you can expect to see a whole lot of them in your game.
I haven't played a Full loot pvp game yet, just because none have walked in front of me when I was in the mood. Shadowbane (Asia) was the most open pvp I have tried. I loved aspects of it. The guild fighting, hunting em down - trying to intercept them. All great fun. Even my wife, who hates pvp, joined in the fun. But that was only 10% of the pvp. The rest was gank and bank. No chance of revenge. No tracking the guy down and getting all your gold back and some extra. No - they would gank, run and bank. If they detected you coming for revenge they would log out.
Full loot pvp games should not have banks. They should not let you log out. You return to home base - put your gear in a safe and hope the other guy doesn't have high enough lock pick skill to come and kill you in your sleep. Put some limits on it so you don't have random murders every day - probably some form of revenge flag so only people you ganked can try and find where you live and gank you in your sleep. You gank - you risk getting shanked in the night.
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Same here.
Personally, I don't mind PvP, but I'd rather have a reason behind it, like factional warfare or RvR. FFA PvP, especially with full player loot, just feels like pointless, mindless killing just because you can, at least to me. If I'm going to fight another player, I need control of a territory or some other faction/RP based reason behind WHY I'm fighting them for it to make more sense to me.
Killing him and taking his stuff just because he's there is boring, IMO. After that, what's the point of playing the game? To get more gear so you can have it on hand for the next time you get ganked? Yawn. It just sounds like a meaningless time sink to me.
I would have to agree with you. I find it more fun to just have the battle lines drawn and then we have at it.
Edit: LOL! you responded to my other post. lol ok atleast you realize that FFApvp/sandbox mmo players have a reason to pvp.
Oh I more than realize what ffa pvp is. I played Lineage 2 for over 4 years. At it's best it was clan vs clan/alliance vs alliance.
At it's worst it was whole groups of people looking for single kills and then insulting them afterward.
It's the latter that keeps certain people from playing many pvp games.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I think there are simply 3 categories of payers. There is more to consider, Im sure, but the way I've perceived it is:
1. Those that like theme-park entertainment and whom are not socially competitive, but enjoy more social interaction, and will not get involved in personal conflict at any time that remotely conflicts with the disruption of their enjoyment of being in a virtual world to explore and just concentrate on their avatar.
2. There's the variation of #1 where the player enjoys part-time, limited competitive player interaction on their own terms to control their sence of loss or win as it relates to their disposition at the time.
3. A competitive player that enjoys an immersive, player-compteitive environment that keeps them on the edge of their seat, knowing that the openess of the world and freedom is player-driven rather than computer-controlled.
I would never say it won't work in the mainstream but that's only because Blizzard hasn't tried it.
All the other MMOs that did try it have had major design and development issues to go with the added frustration of losing everything. It may not be so much that the concept doesn't work, it's just never been approached by a quality developer.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
Ultima Online had safe zone and also had a flag system.You need to protect newbies from veteran murderer that will and only want to grief the noob one for easy stuff.A free for all PVp with no consequence has no meaning in a Role Playing game.Some folk seem to forget often the meaning of *role Playing Game* . It's not a first person shooter .
I was killed and looted and it's was my own fault in UO . But i knew that the murderer had not a easy life either.He was hunted by Anti-PK's and if he died , it would be tough for him.So i accepted it , because yes it's was rewarding killing noob like myself , but the guy was a target for many people.I did it . I basicly killed hundred of noob .Looted thousand of Iron,wood and black sandalss lol . I was rich by doing it . But i was also hunted and someday killed.I did not wait.I took the stat loss like a man .But who care? I was rich like hell.Thanks to all the newbies i looted.I would /hide close to the popular spot and wait at the good moment to attack.It's was helluva fun to hears all the blue Kal or Por when my red name popped in their perception of view.
When i was killed.It's was by someone mining by minoc.He trapped me because he was not so noobish and he opened a portal and some of his friend helped him.I talked to them in ghost mode and told em.Congrats for killing me , but i'm already rich fool .I will be back in no time!
But i decided to quit anyway . Because of trammel (i quit before trammel) .
FFA pvp in a theme park game suck suck and re-suck more.Just look at Age of Fail.
Well, OP, you need to realize that you're appealing to a subset of a subset.
I personally love PvP. That's my #1, #2, and #3 criteria for a MMORPG at the moment. Do you know what game I play if I really want some PvP action, though?
Not a MMORPG.
There are far more players who love PvP than even play MMORPG's total, I'd reckon. They simply play games which don't force you to engage in retarded grinds to get to the part they enjoy. They play shooters and strategy games. That's me. My favorite MMO of all time was Planetside, followed by Guild Wars, and if I had to pick a third, it would be Spellborn even though I've barely played it. You'll notice that these are all games with very little to no level grind, almost no itemization to speak of, and almost no "loot" systems.
That's your first hurdle, imo. The guys and gals who simply love to mash it up in PvP are going to play a game which is specifically designed around doing just that.
The second hurdle you face is simply the nature of your game. Whether you like it or not, EvE needs it carebears. EvE is really PvP + economic simulator. Do you think it's the hardcore strategists or super-skilled-up pilots from BoB (or w/e the fuck they're calling themselves now) or Goonw/e are the ones manufacturing the shit you use or harvesting the mats to make it? Nah. It's mostly their pet carebears who just want to hump an asteroid and make a Godly Engine of the Whale. They like doing that, so all the more power to them. As long as EvE needs players like that, you can expect to see a whole lot of them in your game.
I haven't played a Full loot pvp game yet, just because none have walked in front of me when I was in the mood. Shadowbane (Asia) was the most open pvp I have tried. I loved aspects of it. The guild fighting, hunting em down - trying to intercept them. All great fun. Even my wife, who hates pvp, joined in the fun. But that was only 10% of the pvp. The rest was gank and bank. No chance of revenge. No tracking the guy down and getting all your gold back and some extra. No - they would gank, run and bank. If they detected you coming for revenge they would log out.
Full loot pvp games should not have banks. They should not let you log out. You return to home base - put your gear in a safe and hope the other guy doesn't have high enough lock pick skill to come and kill you in your sleep. Put some limits on it so you don't have random murders every day - probably some form of revenge flag so only people you ganked can try and find where you live and gank you in your sleep. You gank - you risk getting shanked in the night.