It's been fun times discussing RMT lately, but I wanted to bring up another issue just as important and unbalancing. Time. The anti-rmters think it's ok for someone to have more time to play a mmo than someone else and reap those rewards. Yet, the moment someone spends some real cash to catch up to those who have the time advantage, it is suddenly cheating. IMO, time is just as unbalancing a factor in mmo gameplay as rmt supposedly is. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that rmt is more of a balancing factor than an unbalancing factor.
So, disucss. Is the fact that one person has more time to play than another an unbalancing factor in mmos? If so, should time be regulated to make the game fair for everyone? If the anti-rmters are so concerned about fairness in mmos, shouldn't they be just as concerned about fairness in playtime as they are about rmt?
I think it's important to note that I am not advocating restricting time in mmos. I am just saying that to me any argument against rmt on the basis of "fairness" is completely illogical given the inherent unfairness of the time variable.
Hahaha! Wonderful! That is logical. Perfect. I love this.
Seriously, you hit the spot with that. IF it is unfair that some people have more money and use that to get ahead of others, than it is equally unfair that some have more TIME. Entirely correct.
Though I fear those you un-masked in their charade will not be grateful. It's like in "The Kings new clothes", when just one child dares to say, that the king is nude. Wonderful! You Sir hit the spot!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
>A student who spends more time studying for a better grade should not be frowned upon or prevented from studying in order to have the opportunity to achieve an advantage at gaining a better grade, in the hopes that it will provide more future opportunities.
>A student who not only spends more time studying for a better grade, but also pays a proctor or pays into a special study program, is not cheating, nor should it be frowned upon or prevented from happening in order to have the opportunity to achieve an advantage at gaining a better grade, in the hopes that it will provide more future opportunities.
Its human nature for those that either dont have the same time to accomplish something or the same financial avenues to accomplish something, for many to feel their at an unfair advantage.
>A student who spends more time studying for a better grade should not be frowned upon or prevented from studying in order to have the opportunity to achieve an advantage at gaining a better grade, in the hopes that it will provide more future opportunities.
>A student who not only spends more time studying for a better grade, but also pays a proctor or pays into a special study program, is not cheating, nor should it be frowned upon or prevented from happening in order to have the opportunity to achieve an advantage at gaining a better grade, in the hopes that it will provide more future opportunities.
Its human nature for those that either dont have the same time to accomplish something or the same financial avenues to accomplish something, for many to feel their at an unfair advantage.
I'm assuming you're bringing up the school thing in response to my post. So here's where you screwed up.
When a student can't be arsed to study for their grade, or don't think they have the time to dedicate to their studies, so they pay for their grade by having someone else do their work should be frowned upon because they are CHEATING.
In RMTs case, you're paying the item shop to do your homework for you.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Im not pushing either way in this discussion but i would point out that you can't pay to catch up to someone with time because the person with time will pay to stay ahead.
>A student who spends more time studying for a better grade should not be frowned upon or prevented from studying in order to have the opportunity to achieve an advantage at gaining a better grade, in the hopes that it will provide more future opportunities.
>A student who not only spends more time studying for a better grade, but also pays a proctor or pays into a special study program, is not cheating, nor should it be frowned upon or prevented from happening in order to have the opportunity to achieve an advantage at gaining a better grade, in the hopes that it will provide more future opportunities.
Its human nature for those that either dont have the same time to accomplish something or the same financial avenues to accomplish something, for many to feel their at an unfair advantage.
I'm assuming you're bringing up the school thing in response to my post. So here's where you screwed up.
When a student can't be arsed to study for their grade, or don't think they have the time to dedicate to their studies, so they pay for their grade by having someone else do their work should be frowned upon because they are CHEATING.
In RMTs case, you're paying the item shop to do your homework for you.
Your wrong. I was contributing to the OP's post, not yours, but my opinion is that there will always be, always be ones that have more opportunity than you and I and less. My point being, just because you dont have the opportunity to study, doesnt mean its anyone elses responsibility to hand you one. Just because someone else does have the opportunity to study, doesnt mean its anyone elses responsibility to prevent you from trying to do so. Everyone needs to be comfortable in their own skin, and not expecting someone to either help or harm you, but provide the means for suitable opportunity and tools to be helped. Wether, again, ones able to take advantage of that tool or opportunity, is again, not only multi-factorilal, but inevitably, imho, the responsibility of the one who wants or needs, to try to achieve.
In RMT's case, as with a proctor or paid study partner, your provided the means to be continuously successful, or having a rough edge taken off, and in some cases, no more successful than someone else, since success and skill is not dependent on one item, but is still multifactorial in every environment. As with RMT, your not being handed a new skill level just as your not being handed a passing grade if you utilized a proctor, just a tool that may or may not help with the advance.
Unless you live in a socialist country or environment where the leaders or developers take resources from the haves and distribute it to the have nots.
It's been fun times discussing RMT lately, but I wanted to bring up another issue just as important and unbalancing. Time. The anti-rmters think it's ok for someone to have more time to play a mmo than someone else and reap those rewards. Yet, the moment someone spends some real cash to catch up to those who have the time advantage, it is suddenly cheating. IMO, time is just as unbalancing a factor in mmo gameplay as rmt supposedly is. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that rmt is more of a balancing factor than an unbalancing factor.
So, disucss. Is the fact that one person has more time to play than another an unbalancing factor in mmos? If so, should time be regulated to make the game fair for everyone? If the anti-rmters are so concerned about fairness in mmos, shouldn't they be just as concerned about fairness in playtime as they are about rmt?
I think it's important to note that I am not advocating restricting time in mmos. I am just saying that to me any argument against rmt on the basis of "fairness" is completely illogical given the inherent unfairness of the time variable.
Hahaha! Wonderful! That is logical. Perfect. I love this.
Seriously, you hit the spot with that. IF it is unfair that some people have more money and use that to get ahead of others, than it is equally unfair that some have more TIME. Entirely correct.
Though I fear those you un-masked in their charade will not be grateful. It's like in "The Kings new clothes", when just one child dares to say, that the king is nude. Wonderful! You Sir hit the spot!
Think of it like this. We will get paid 1 dollar an hour to dig a ditch. You work one hour today, and I work 10. You get one dollar, and I get ten dollars.
Would you say that is fair, or unfair?
I play 10 hours, and make 4 levels, you play 5 hours, and make 2 levels. Is that fair or unfair?
I think the flaw in the above post is that in a P2P game, we more or less measure characters by hours played.
My character that I played for 40 hours will be more or less the same as your character that you played for 40 hours.
If I do it in a week, and you do it in a month, we both end up with 40 hour characters that will be roughly the same in power.
But if I spend money, and you never spend money in an RMT game we will never be equal, not at 40 hours of game play, or ever.
Plus in a P2P game, there is the level cap. If I reach the level cap in a month, and you take 6 months, we will both have 50th level characters, and we will both have put in 3000 hours, or whatever the hour count my be.
We'll be even. It makes no difference to me you did in in a month, took me 6 months, we still put the same hours into the charactr, we still end up at the same level cap. That's fair, IMO.
I can look at a 40 level character and know, he played the same content I did to get to 40. Same quests, same hours played. That's fair.
iN A F2P game, I don't know if he played the same content I did or the same hours. Maybe he did, maybe he just paid for it. That's no fair.
Here are some questions I propose to those who are in favor of RMT because it makes up for lack of time:
1) Why is it justifiable that money = time? Why is it that someone who has time vs. someone who has money should lose (because transactions are instant, vs. gameplay which is long)
2) Why would you play a game involving gaining gear, only to purchase it with real cash?
3) How is it fair that the person that real money > game experience and skill in a video game?
Logically your arguments might make sense, but its honestly a ridiculous concept that people who play should be at the same place as people who only pay.
Basically the whole point of video games, besides being fun, is that they take time. Video games are time sinks, and they are meant to be played for a certain amount of time.
Is it justifiable to spend money buying a World of Warcraft account with 80s already level'd? Is it fair to buy gold? That is essentially what you are doing, just in a more complicated manner. I know that if a guy is better than me because of things he bought, I will always call shenanigans, and until it becomes more the norm, I refuse to play games that offer advantageous cash shop items.
It's been fun times discussing RMT lately, but I wanted to bring up another issue just as important and unbalancing. Time. The anti-rmters think it's ok for someone to have more time to play a mmo than someone else and reap those rewards. Yet, the moment someone spends some real cash to catch up to those who have the time advantage, it is suddenly cheating. IMO, time is just as unbalancing a factor in mmo gameplay as rmt supposedly is. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that rmt is more of a balancing factor than an unbalancing factor.
So, disucss. Is the fact that one person has more time to play than another an unbalancing factor in mmos? If so, should time be regulated to make the game fair for everyone? If the anti-rmters are so concerned about fairness in mmos, shouldn't they be just as concerned about fairness in playtime as they are about rmt?
I think it's important to note that I am not advocating restricting time in mmos. I am just saying that to me any argument against rmt on the basis of "fairness" is completely illogical given the inherent unfairness of the time variable.
This argument shows people have really forgotten what and why we play games. The "time" shouldn't be even an argument. Games are meant to be played and to be an enjoyable hobby/pastime. If you are concerned with the time it takes to play like it is a job or something you are not getting the enjoyment out of the game and probably should move to some other game or something else for your leisure enjoyment.
It has nothing to do with "fairness". Buying items is simply not gameplay. There is already a currency and that is the currency in the game. There is no need to introduce real life to these games. That is what they are by the way, games. They are meant to take some amount of time because you play them. If you do not have time to play one certain game, then you would be doing youself a favor by going to one you can get the satisfaction of playing and enjoying.
If you do not have time to play a game by the way even if you purchase items to make the game "fair", you can't buy what you initially bought the game for and that is the experience of playing it. The items are worth nothing. Obtaining the item is what the game is about. It is the experience of getting the item is something you will never get to experience by buying items. I would advise you reevaluate what a game is and why you play them.
It's been fun times discussing RMT lately, but I wanted to bring up another issue just as important and unbalancing. Time. The anti-rmters think it's ok for someone to have more time to play a mmo than someone else and reap those rewards. Yet, the moment someone spends some real cash to catch up to those who have the time advantage, it is suddenly cheating. IMO, time is just as unbalancing a factor in mmo gameplay as rmt supposedly is. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that rmt is more of a balancing factor than an unbalancing factor.
So, disucss. Is the fact that one person has more time to play than another an unbalancing factor in mmos? If so, should time be regulated to make the game fair for everyone? If the anti-rmters are so concerned about fairness in mmos, shouldn't they be just as concerned about fairness in playtime as they are about rmt?
I think it's important to note that I am not advocating restricting time in mmos. I am just saying that to me any argument against rmt on the basis of "fairness" is completely illogical given the inherent unfairness of the time variable.
This argument shows people have really forgotten what and why we play games. The "time" shouldn't be even an argument. Games are meant to be played and to be an enjoyable hobby/pastime. If you are concerned with the time it takes to play like it is a job or something you are not getting the enjoyment out of the game and probably should move to some other game or something else for your leisure enjoyment.
It has nothing to do with "fairness". Buying items is simply not gameplay. There is already a currency and that is the currency in the game. There is no need to introduce real life to these games. That is what they are by the way, games. They are meant to take some amount of time because you play them. If you do not have time to play one certain game, then you would be doing youself a favor by going to one you can get the satisfaction of playing and enjoying.
If you do not have time to play a game by the way even if you purchase items to make the game "fair", you can't buy what you initially bought the game for and that is the experience of playing it. The items are not worth nothing. Obtaining the item is what the game is about. It is the experience of getting the item is something you will never get to experience by buying items. I would advise you reevaluate what a game is and why you play them.
You use the term "WE" when you should be using "I". Worry about why you play games, and stop assuming that the rest of us play for the same reasons.
Obtaining the items is what the game may be about for you, but for others they are only concerned with using those same items. That's how they have fun. Stop assuming that everyone is going to play for the same reasons as you, with the same motivations. And stop assuming that your way of playing is the only way.
ive played WoW since it was released; ive leveled maybe 4/5 toons up to 60 then to 70; i still havent currently no 80's. i got bored of the game and sold my account for a few hundred dollars; now i ask you. why would someone buy it rather than do it themselves? because 1; they dont haev the time sink BUT want a to play the with friends and or compete in the end game content (which is the driving force for leveling in the first place is it not?)
now we ask; why did I sell it for a few hundred dollars instead of giving it away? because I AM the one who spent time ti cultivate the characters to where they are now, if the buyer had spent half of the time i did playing .. they wouldnt have been buying the account now would they =P. its Time spent = assertained value.
now this translates into items as well as gold. for many number of reasons - time = money.
i could go spend 3 hours farming mobs and doing dailys or... i could go and spend my money I earned, and buy it from someone who already has or shows the value of the time spent for such item in translation to cash amount.
lets take a look at F2P WarRock where they have a full on RMT system for weapons and such.. i blatantly cant access them without paying; why should paying money to the developer of the game I am partially enjoying be rewarded with nothing?
be happy they are even giving players something worthwhile instead of a ingame mail of [brown dog poo] .. otehrwise at one point or another.. we are all gonna have stinky hands
- do note i am buying a friends 70 paladin so i can hit 80 on it,,, ive already dropped 90$ for the cd keys .. and approx 150$ for the character itself .. why? because i HATE leveling. im sorry but a few hours is fine but not measured in -days played INGAME- . yet i still enjoy the game.
alright here is my quick tale: ive played WoW since it was released; ive leveled maybe 4/5 toons up to 60 then to 70; i still havent currently no 80's. i got bored of the game and sold my account for a few hundred dollars; now i ask you. why would someone buy it rather than do it themselves? because 1; they dont haev the time sink BUT want a to play the with friends and or compete in the end game content (which is the driving force for leveling in the first place is it not?) now we ask; why did I sell it for a few hundred dollars instead of giving it away? because I AM the one who spent time ti cultivate the characters to where they are now, if the buyer had spent half of the time i did playing .. they wouldnt have been buying the account now would they =P. its Time spent = assertained value.
now this translates into items as well as gold. for many number of reasons - time = money. i could go spend 3 hours farming mobs and doing dailys or... i could go and spend my money I earned, and buy it from someone who already has or shows the value of the time spent for such item in translation to cash amount. lets take a look at F2P WarRock where they have a full on RMT system for weapons and such.. i blatantly cant access them without paying; why should paying money to the developer of the game I am partially enjoying be rewarded with nothing? be happy they are even giving players something worthwhile instead of a ingame mail of [brown dog poo] .. otehrwise at one point or another.. we are all gonna have stinky hands
Buying an account from a player is different than being able to buy an account with 80's from the company.
It's been fun times discussing RMT lately, but I wanted to bring up another issue just as important and unbalancing. Time. The anti-rmters think it's ok for someone to have more time to play a mmo than someone else and reap those rewards. Yet, the moment someone spends some real cash to catch up to those who have the time advantage, it is suddenly cheating. IMO, time is just as unbalancing a factor in mmo gameplay as rmt supposedly is. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that rmt is more of a balancing factor than an unbalancing factor.
So, disucss. Is the fact that one person has more time to play than another an unbalancing factor in mmos? If so, should time be regulated to make the game fair for everyone? If the anti-rmters are so concerned about fairness in mmos, shouldn't they be just as concerned about fairness in playtime as they are about rmt?
I think it's important to note that I am not advocating restricting time in mmos. I am just saying that to me any argument against rmt on the basis of "fairness" is completely illogical given the inherent unfairness of the time variable.
This argument shows people have really forgotten what and why we play games. The "time" shouldn't be even an argument. Games are meant to be played and to be an enjoyable hobby/pastime. If you are concerned with the time it takes to play like it is a job or something you are not getting the enjoyment out of the game and probably should move to some other game or something else for your leisure enjoyment.
It has nothing to do with "fairness". Buying items is simply not gameplay. There is already a currency and that is the currency in the game. There is no need to introduce real life to these games. That is what they are by the way, games. They are meant to take some amount of time because you play them. If you do not have time to play one certain game, then you would be doing youself a favor by going to one you can get the satisfaction of playing and enjoying.
If you do not have time to play a game by the way even if you purchase items to make the game "fair", you can't buy what you initially bought the game for and that is the experience of playing it. The items are not worth nothing. Obtaining the item is what the game is about. It is the experience of getting the item is something you will never get to experience by buying items. I would advise you reevaluate what a game is and why you play them.
You use the term "WE" when you should be using "I". Worry about why you play games, and stop assuming that the rest of us play for the same reasons.
Obtaining the items is what the game may be about for you, but for others they are only concerned with using those same items. That's how they have fun. Stop assuming that everyone is going to play for the same reasons as you, with the same motivations. And stop assuming that your way of playing is the only way.
Do what you enjoy, and let others do the same.
This isn't an opinion though. You may buy items and I personally will not. That isn't my argument though. I am stating a fact. Buying a digital item with your card does not buy you what you are missing out on and that is the game itself. The item is just the trophy showing what you did. The experience of PLAYING the game is the game. You can't buy that. That is just a fact. Buying a digital sword with your credit card isn't a playstyle because it isn't playing.
Would you purchase a single player game and get home and first thing wish you didn't have to play it. Do you buy single player games because of what items you obtain in it? Those are the questions I am curious about. There are games that do not require items and the joy in those are competition with others. Those games are fun too but if you ever feel the need to purchase an item with a credit card in a game to AVOID playing to get it then it is time to evaluate whether this is a fun game or maybe a poorly designed game to where it takes too much time to the point it becomes unfun.
Why pay for a game with things in it you dislike? Go to a game maker than can make a fun gaming experience where you feel you do not need to buy items because you are actually having fun doing what you paid for, to play the game. I wouldn't support games that I feel are unfun or do not fit my playstyle. I play games that I enjoy to play because it is just a game. Would you join a soccer team and instead of playing just buy the trophy? Just something to think about. This is to just show RMT for what it is. Gamers who play the wrong games for them.
true. i dont advocate account selling by the company itself; (help in player to player trading and selling YES, lord YES. minimize the risk imo);
i do draw the line however on whether or not the item is more powerful than what I can get in game without paying ( in the instance of item RMT) , this is a bit hazier of a line with accounts imo- an item is a tool; the character is somehting the new owner actually has to learn the ins and outs rahter than just equip.
now this translates into items as well as gold. for many number of reasons - time = money. - Do you think about everything you do on your leisure time in life like this, Time = Money? When you are watching TV are you actively thinking about this? I do not personally, I consider leisure activities things I do to spend a little time having fun. i could go spend 3 hours farming mobs and doing dailys or... i could go and spend my money I earned, and buy it from someone who already has or shows the value of the time spent for such item in translation to cash amount. - Or you could choose a game that isn't designed in this manner if you do not like it. It sounds like a game developer made a game that is so unfun to you that you would rather pay someone else to play it for you. Why buy a game if it is unfun. Games are about playing them right to spend some time having fun? I wouldn't support a game that I felt I would rather pay someone else to play for me. I play games untill I tire of them or untill I find I am not having fun. If I really find parts of the game that I feel is more like work than fun to me (This is very subjective, that is why we have many different games in the world) I simply quit and play something that is fun. lets take a look at F2P WarRock where they have a full on RMT system for weapons and such.. i blatantly cant access them without paying; why should paying money to the developer of the game I am partially enjoying be rewarded with nothing? be happy they are even giving players something worthwhile instead of a ingame mail of [brown dog poo] .. otehrwise at one point or another.. we are all gonna have stinky hands
- do note i am buying a friends 70 paladin so i can hit 80 on it,,, ive already dropped 90$ for the cd keys .. and approx 150$ for the character itself .. why? because i HATE leveling. im sorry but a few hours is fine but not measured in -days played INGAME- . yet i still enjoy the game. - When you continue to support game companies that make games that you find are unfun (leveling the character is part of this game), you only hurt yourself. You vote "yes" with your wallet by subscribing to a game with features you dislike. Why pay someone to play parts of a game that you dislike? Why not instead vote "no" by not buying that game so game companies make games that you DO enjoy without having to pay someone else to play the game you paid to play? Instead of requesting an item shop or preleveled characters for a cost, request a game that you can play without feeling there is a need for an item shop because you are having that much fun playing.
I am sure you are a good guy, nothing personal against you by quoting your post. I just seen many opportunities to bring across my points in this post. I really do not have anything against the people that say they don't have time to play so they would like to purchase items. I honestly do not. I actually feel for these folks and think there are better alternatives to meet the needs of these folks. I have thought about a game like WoW where there are not levels you start with a character and the game starts basically with everyone "maxed". You then progress via first smaller dungeons and then on. Just an idea, may save some people that have limite time with a game designed just for them where they can enjoy. Imagine WoW with no levels. You login and start doing 5 man dungeons and so on or PvP etc.
in the other thread that one guy irked the crp out of me and i let myself get loose, sorry
- but meh the main reason i still play WoW, its not for the content but rather its for me to spend time with friends i met during the game ( and i now work with in my company) to communicate and have something in common. I did stop at a point; for about 4 months, jumped back into the game with my friends with RAF and i got burned out really fast;
right now im taking it nice and slow on my paladin (prot ftw lol), but meh.. really i do believe that the only reason people play a game they dont like IS the connections they had or a sense of trying to find that lost sense when they first played for 18 hours a day like i had.
just boils down to raw emotions trying to reconnect
(due note ive tried AoC/WAR/F2P games i hate due to large hacker pops;; heck i said enough of this and found a few friends with the same ideas (and some not of the same ideas) and made a company to try and make a game with the fixes.)
*edit: bloody typos... i still think i missed some
-- in response to your edit of wow with no levels-
for Fallen that is close to what the aim is, desensitizing the player from the need to level via : 1-20 = newb levels, training goes by decently fast- then you can play with the regulars City raid/leave the planet make your own company/pvp hell even maybe actually play the rpg (the main focus xD) and explore the world while doing realistic missions and your actions actually affect the world .. and how it responses to you.
quick amalgation(sp?) of previous games that have certain similarities:
Diablo 2 : armor stats/gearing ways
Mass Effect: deeper morality and looking at cross planet colonization and interaction- where everything you do affects everything
GoW: hiding movement; 3rd person or 1st shooting style
with a mixture of personal storytelling all set in a dystopian universe.. where the player isnt a hero; but a tool which can at the end become a hero ... or villian..
100% free form we dont force you to do anything
- and ofc we have the limited RMT thing being looked at to combat the underhanders rather than for profit.
It's been fun times discussing RMT lately, but I wanted to bring up another issue just as important and unbalancing. Time. The anti-rmters think it's ok for someone to have more time to play a mmo than someone else and reap those rewards. Yet, the moment someone spends some real cash to catch up to those who have the time advantage, it is suddenly cheating. IMO, time is just as unbalancing a factor in mmo gameplay as rmt supposedly is. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that rmt is more of a balancing factor than an unbalancing factor.
So, disucss. Is the fact that one person has more time to play than another an unbalancing factor in mmos? If so, should time be regulated to make the game fair for everyone? If the anti-rmters are so concerned about fairness in mmos, shouldn't they be just as concerned about fairness in playtime as they are about rmt?
I think it's important to note that I am not advocating restricting time in mmos. I am just saying that to me any argument against rmt on the basis of "fairness" is completely illogical given the inherent unfairness of the time variable.
I don't get your sentiment on this. If i work 40 hours a week doing construction work and decide to work overtime for another 20 hours with overpay..i should get more money than somebody only able to put in 40 hours because i worked harder. Thats the natural order of things and it is quite fair. The guy that cannot put in the extra hours have no reason to complain he doesn't get paid as much since he doesn't put in the hours.
This thinking is flawed since you could very well be putting in more hours just to reach the amount I'm being pay for my 40 hours of work. You're thinking that you SHOULD get more for working longer than me but are failing to take in consideration other factors in the equation. This is even more disturbing when you believe that this is the natural order of things and is fair, when we all know nothing in life is fair, period. There will always be things in life that give others the advantage. Having the ability to choose is the only thing fair that any of us have.
RMT is a whole other issue that can't be compared with time. Time for most of us is free..money isn't. A gamer that can't put in the hours to get better gear than those that can shouldn't be able to obtain the same level of gear period.
I'm vehmently against RMT and i have absolutely no desire of evening the playingfield when it comes to gear. I'm a stout believer in everybody earning what they are willing or able to work for. If that creates an unbalance from rich to poor then i am fine with that. It is how it should be. This idea that we all should be equal is nonsense. Society doesn't work like that and neither should virtual worlds in MMORPGS with their own economy. That is what i consider fair.
How can you justify somebody playing 10 hours a month able to obtain the same gear as somebody able to play 60 hours?
It's called being efficient, if it takes you longer to what I did in 10 hours then how am I at fault? People who use RMT in games are just as likely buying efficiency to empower the little time they do have. It's when others that make it their business to stick their nose into what I am doing that creates the problem. So what I paid for my exp boost to level faster or I bought a new weapon to help me finish my quest I couldn't find a group for. I fail to see how this is unfair. If we both are PvPers and I can afford to buy some gear to kick ass then so be it. Professional sport players do it all the time and as long as it 's in the guidelines provided by the rules then what's the fuss?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I see a lot of people using metaphors to try to explain this to the "opposing side".
For me, it's simple. Things like "let everyone play the way they want" doesn't work for me because any game that has RMT for ingame useful items always strongly (and in my opinion adversely) affects the market for that game. So letting others play the way they want definitely does affect my game.
If a game wants to allow RMT, decide that from the start, do not add it in months or years later, because it will radically alter the economy of the game.
For myself, I will always avoid such games.
FWIW, I didn't mind a bit when Guild Wars allowed RM purchases of extra character slots. Has zero bearing on game economy. Purchases that meet that definition are fine to me.
It's unfortunate that item mall games have ended up in this discussion. Although technically an item mall game is rmt, I don't view it in the same context. I should have been more clear by saying I meant player to player trade, not company to player (or for that matter gold farmer to player).
I do think the most humerous argument against rmt is that it "devalues" someone else's achievements. There is no logic in that argument, it is purely emotional, not to mention just a slight bit strange. If you killed a super hard to kill mob and got a piece of fat loot, someone buying the same gear doesn't devalue your achievement in any way shape or form. I particularly like the guy who said that if you made silver items for bought items and gold items for earned items, that the demand would drop dramatically. This guy just doesn't get it. He thinks that other people actually give a darn about your achievements in game. No one cares. They're all playing their own game, and when they ooh and ahh at your gear it's not because they think you're cool it's because they are simply envious of your gear for selfish reasons.
To sum it up, some of you guys just gotta get over yourself. We're talking mmos here, GAMES. Games shouldn't boost your self-confidence or "devalue" your "work". They are meant for entertainment, and people are always willing to pay for more entertainment. Sure, buying a max level character with fat gear may ruin the way you want to play, but if they only want to pvp or otherwise play with their high level friend, there is a tangible entertainment value to the purchase. It's not stupid or frivilous, it actually provides value to the customer, and provides no less value then wasting your money on nothing at the bar or going out to see a movie. In addition, these people don't care in the slightest about "achievement" and "skill". They just wanna kill masses of mobs with their friends, see pretty colors, and pwn some nubs. You must understand how the "other side" thinks before you sit here and call them cheaters. They will never see the game the same way you do. Not because they're stupid or have low morals, but because they simply see the game in an entirely different light than you do. What makes you right and them wrong? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thing is games are like hobbies...take for instance models. Of course no one who doesn't build models would care about how much time, effort or money you put into it, but if you went to a convention with other hobbyist that built models then soon as you set up your display and see the reaction on the faces of others then your confidence gets boosted and your work is shown value among peers.
Does it matter what people who don't share your hobby say? Of course not. But to yourself you have a whole new feeling of what your work is worth even if it's not monetary value.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I agree with the latest poster to a degree; as an artist i feel a STRONG compelling love for my artwork i worked hard to create- but i wont scrutinize someone who buys aides to drawing ; its their experience not mine. so long as I am able to show my work and retain my own self dignity its all cool.. now i may rant about how that bloke over there re-uses stock images he bought, rather than drawing it by hand with no visual aide. but i still accept that is how they wish to do their artwork
- i hope you see the analogy being used in a real world application; a game is nothing mor than another world in which we escape our real world; somethings wont be all purty and unicorn prancing(or goblin heads flying about with arcane torrents piercing your body), but its what we make of it all that dictates our enjoyment level
It's been fun times discussing RMT lately, but I wanted to bring up another issue just as important and unbalancing. Time. The anti-rmters think it's ok for someone to have more time to play a mmo than someone else and reap those rewards. Yet, the moment someone spends some real cash to catch up to those who have the time advantage, it is suddenly cheating. IMO, time is just as unbalancing a factor in mmo gameplay as rmt supposedly is. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that rmt is more of a balancing factor than an unbalancing factor.
So, disucss. Is the fact that one person has more time to play than another an unbalancing factor in mmos? If so, should time be regulated to make the game fair for everyone? If the anti-rmters are so concerned about fairness in mmos, shouldn't they be just as concerned about fairness in playtime as they are about rmt?
I think it's important to note that I am not advocating restricting time in mmos. I am just saying that to me any argument against rmt on the basis of "fairness" is completely illogical given the inherent unfairness of the time variable.
This argument shows people have really forgotten what and why we play games. The "time" shouldn't be even an argument. Games are meant to be played and to be an enjoyable hobby/pastime. If you are concerned with the time it takes to play like it is a job or something you are not getting the enjoyment out of the game and probably should move to some other game or something else for your leisure enjoyment.
It has nothing to do with "fairness". Buying items is simply not gameplay. There is already a currency and that is the currency in the game. There is no need to introduce real life to these games. That is what they are by the way, games. They are meant to take some amount of time because you play them. If you do not have time to play one certain game, then you would be doing youself a favor by going to one you can get the satisfaction of playing and enjoying.
If you do not have time to play a game by the way even if you purchase items to make the game "fair", you can't buy what you initially bought the game for and that is the experience of playing it. The items are not worth nothing. Obtaining the item is what the game is about. It is the experience of getting the item is something you will never get to experience by buying items. I would advise you reevaluate what a game is and why you play them.
You use the term "WE" when you should be using "I". Worry about why you play games, and stop assuming that the rest of us play for the same reasons.
Obtaining the items is what the game may be about for you, but for others they are only concerned with using those same items. That's how they have fun. Stop assuming that everyone is going to play for the same reasons as you, with the same motivations. And stop assuming that your way of playing is the only way.
Do what you enjoy, and let others do the same.
This isn't an opinion though. You may buy items and I personally will not. That isn't my argument though. I am stating a fact. Buying a digital item with your card does not buy you what you are missing out on and that is the game itself. The item is just the trophy showing what you did. The experience of PLAYING the game is the game. You can't buy that. That is just a fact. Buying a digital sword with your credit card isn't a playstyle because it isn't playing.
Would you purchase a single player game and get home and first thing wish you didn't have to play it. Do you buy single player games because of what items you obtain in it? Those are the questions I am curious about. There are games that do not require items and the joy in those are competition with others. Those games are fun too but if you ever feel the need to purchase an item with a credit card in a game to AVOID playing to get it then it is time to evaluate whether this is a fun game or maybe a poorly designed game to where it takes too much time to the point it becomes unfun.
Why pay for a game with things in it you dislike? Go to a game maker than can make a fun gaming experience where you feel you do not need to buy items because you are actually having fun doing what you paid for, to play the game. I wouldn't support games that I feel are unfun or do not fit my playstyle. I play games that I enjoy to play because it is just a game. Would you join a soccer team and instead of playing just buy the trophy? Just something to think about. This is to just show RMT for what it is. Gamers who play the wrong games for them.
Just because you buy and like a game does not mean you enjoy every single aspect.
I really liked No More Heroes, especially the story and boss fights, the junk in between, not so much. I still beat it though. If i could've skipped the parts I thought were really crappy I would have.
Games aren't as simple as if you like a game, everything it is must be enjoyable or if you don't like a game, it must all suck.
Time will make the game unbalanced. RMT will make the game unbalanced. It is ok if you are better than someone else because you have better gear or more time. You spent money or you spent time, you deserve to have that edge.
Why do people want to make time seen as an unbalancing format for MMOs? Yeah, I know there are some MMOs that got the wrong idea when making their curve, but well, if you have fun while you play a game, it's natural for the one to play more to have more fun than the one that plays less. The broken thing is when they penalize the ones that play less too much, with things like getting one-shot by the epic legendary weapon of death that the true hardcore could get after their 100-hour non-stop dungeon run.
It's a funny thing though, people want to pay more for game companies when it is actually their fault for making players want to RMT, this is why I will not support RMTing in GAMES, they are GAMES not a real commitment. They want to pay for lack of content and lack of fun to boost into the content, that is RMTing in most cases it gets highlighted, not me thanks. I pay for content, not for virtual items that will make me feel good because my credit card power allowed me to beat that poor player that spends 10 hours a day, and I play only one hour. The idea of beating the other guy in itself is broken in that game.
The idea of only the end-game being fun is breaking the time spent equals fun progression and replacing it with a time spent is a condition for fun, you can relate it to the broken level concept, broken item mall content that is the evolution of the broken level concept by allowing players to reduce the time condition for fun and then creating a whole new level of grind that is real money when it is added as a in-game currency.
First off, I'd like to comment that I think the title of this thread is misleading. RMT is not unbalancing, nor is time disparity. Games which use one or the other as a method to advance play are designed from the ground up (hopefully) for that style of play. If you enter a game where RMT exists, and someone uses RMT there, the game is not unbalanced - you entered KNOWING the rules of that game. If you want to balance the equation you are free to spend your money too. Likewise, if you want to compete on time spent in time sink games, that's your choice - but you knew what the game was like before you started playing it.
The comments about "buying stuff is not playing a game" sorta bug me too. Yes, it certainly is! It's just not the *same* sort of game as one where you don't need to purchase things to play. Consider Magic: the Gathering, a game where buying cards certainly had an impact on one's success. Or golf, where quality of one's gear matters a lot. Or car racing, where it matters even more. Consider FPS games, where the quality of computer you have directly impacts your success against other players. There are many, many games where commitment of money doesn't help very much at all; but there are just as many in which purchase of things to improve your game is an integral part of the game.
People often fail to remember what RMT really is. Generally, RMT is not "pay X cash to get all the game rewards early". Almost always, RMT purchases are things which you use for a while (sometimes even one shot, like potions) which improve the speed with which you progress. They don't make you skip the fun - they make the game more fun for people, by reducing The Grind and making progression happen at a faster rate. For some people, that isn't fun; for others, it is.
Comments
Hahaha! Wonderful! That is logical. Perfect. I love this.
Seriously, you hit the spot with that. IF it is unfair that some people have more money and use that to get ahead of others, than it is equally unfair that some have more TIME. Entirely correct.
Though I fear those you un-masked in their charade will not be grateful. It's like in "The Kings new clothes", when just one child dares to say, that the king is nude. Wonderful! You Sir hit the spot!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
>A student who spends more time studying for a better grade should not be frowned upon or prevented from studying in order to have the opportunity to achieve an advantage at gaining a better grade, in the hopes that it will provide more future opportunities.
>A student who not only spends more time studying for a better grade, but also pays a proctor or pays into a special study program, is not cheating, nor should it be frowned upon or prevented from happening in order to have the opportunity to achieve an advantage at gaining a better grade, in the hopes that it will provide more future opportunities.
Its human nature for those that either dont have the same time to accomplish something or the same financial avenues to accomplish something, for many to feel their at an unfair advantage.
I'm assuming you're bringing up the school thing in response to my post. So here's where you screwed up.
When a student can't be arsed to study for their grade, or don't think they have the time to dedicate to their studies, so they pay for their grade by having someone else do their work should be frowned upon because they are CHEATING.
In RMTs case, you're paying the item shop to do your homework for you.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Im not pushing either way in this discussion but i would point out that you can't pay to catch up to someone with time because the person with time will pay to stay ahead.
I'm assuming you're bringing up the school thing in response to my post. So here's where you screwed up.
When a student can't be arsed to study for their grade, or don't think they have the time to dedicate to their studies, so they pay for their grade by having someone else do their work should be frowned upon because they are CHEATING.
In RMTs case, you're paying the item shop to do your homework for you.
Your wrong. I was contributing to the OP's post, not yours, but my opinion is that there will always be, always be ones that have more opportunity than you and I and less. My point being, just because you dont have the opportunity to study, doesnt mean its anyone elses responsibility to hand you one. Just because someone else does have the opportunity to study, doesnt mean its anyone elses responsibility to prevent you from trying to do so. Everyone needs to be comfortable in their own skin, and not expecting someone to either help or harm you, but provide the means for suitable opportunity and tools to be helped. Wether, again, ones able to take advantage of that tool or opportunity, is again, not only multi-factorilal, but inevitably, imho, the responsibility of the one who wants or needs, to try to achieve.
In RMT's case, as with a proctor or paid study partner, your provided the means to be continuously successful, or having a rough edge taken off, and in some cases, no more successful than someone else, since success and skill is not dependent on one item, but is still multifactorial in every environment. As with RMT, your not being handed a new skill level just as your not being handed a passing grade if you utilized a proctor, just a tool that may or may not help with the advance.
Unless you live in a socialist country or environment where the leaders or developers take resources from the haves and distribute it to the have nots.
Hahaha! Wonderful! That is logical. Perfect. I love this.
Seriously, you hit the spot with that. IF it is unfair that some people have more money and use that to get ahead of others, than it is equally unfair that some have more TIME. Entirely correct.
Though I fear those you un-masked in their charade will not be grateful. It's like in "The Kings new clothes", when just one child dares to say, that the king is nude. Wonderful! You Sir hit the spot!
Think of it like this. We will get paid 1 dollar an hour to dig a ditch. You work one hour today, and I work 10. You get one dollar, and I get ten dollars.
Would you say that is fair, or unfair?
I play 10 hours, and make 4 levels, you play 5 hours, and make 2 levels. Is that fair or unfair?
I think the flaw in the above post is that in a P2P game, we more or less measure characters by hours played.
My character that I played for 40 hours will be more or less the same as your character that you played for 40 hours.
If I do it in a week, and you do it in a month, we both end up with 40 hour characters that will be roughly the same in power.
But if I spend money, and you never spend money in an RMT game we will never be equal, not at 40 hours of game play, or ever.
Plus in a P2P game, there is the level cap. If I reach the level cap in a month, and you take 6 months, we will both have 50th level characters, and we will both have put in 3000 hours, or whatever the hour count my be.
We'll be even. It makes no difference to me you did in in a month, took me 6 months, we still put the same hours into the charactr, we still end up at the same level cap. That's fair, IMO.
I can look at a 40 level character and know, he played the same content I did to get to 40. Same quests, same hours played. That's fair.
iN A F2P game, I don't know if he played the same content I did or the same hours. Maybe he did, maybe he just paid for it. That's no fair.
Here are some questions I propose to those who are in favor of RMT because it makes up for lack of time:
1) Why is it justifiable that money = time? Why is it that someone who has time vs. someone who has money should lose (because transactions are instant, vs. gameplay which is long)
2) Why would you play a game involving gaining gear, only to purchase it with real cash?
3) How is it fair that the person that real money > game experience and skill in a video game?
Logically your arguments might make sense, but its honestly a ridiculous concept that people who play should be at the same place as people who only pay.
Basically the whole point of video games, besides being fun, is that they take time. Video games are time sinks, and they are meant to be played for a certain amount of time.
Is it justifiable to spend money buying a World of Warcraft account with 80s already level'd? Is it fair to buy gold? That is essentially what you are doing, just in a more complicated manner. I know that if a guy is better than me because of things he bought, I will always call shenanigans, and until it becomes more the norm, I refuse to play games that offer advantageous cash shop items.
This argument shows people have really forgotten what and why we play games. The "time" shouldn't be even an argument. Games are meant to be played and to be an enjoyable hobby/pastime. If you are concerned with the time it takes to play like it is a job or something you are not getting the enjoyment out of the game and probably should move to some other game or something else for your leisure enjoyment.
It has nothing to do with "fairness". Buying items is simply not gameplay. There is already a currency and that is the currency in the game. There is no need to introduce real life to these games. That is what they are by the way, games. They are meant to take some amount of time because you play them. If you do not have time to play one certain game, then you would be doing youself a favor by going to one you can get the satisfaction of playing and enjoying.
If you do not have time to play a game by the way even if you purchase items to make the game "fair", you can't buy what you initially bought the game for and that is the experience of playing it. The items are worth nothing. Obtaining the item is what the game is about. It is the experience of getting the item is something you will never get to experience by buying items. I would advise you reevaluate what a game is and why you play them.
This argument shows people have really forgotten what and why we play games. The "time" shouldn't be even an argument. Games are meant to be played and to be an enjoyable hobby/pastime. If you are concerned with the time it takes to play like it is a job or something you are not getting the enjoyment out of the game and probably should move to some other game or something else for your leisure enjoyment.
It has nothing to do with "fairness". Buying items is simply not gameplay. There is already a currency and that is the currency in the game. There is no need to introduce real life to these games. That is what they are by the way, games. They are meant to take some amount of time because you play them. If you do not have time to play one certain game, then you would be doing youself a favor by going to one you can get the satisfaction of playing and enjoying.
If you do not have time to play a game by the way even if you purchase items to make the game "fair", you can't buy what you initially bought the game for and that is the experience of playing it. The items are not worth nothing. Obtaining the item is what the game is about. It is the experience of getting the item is something you will never get to experience by buying items. I would advise you reevaluate what a game is and why you play them.
You use the term "WE" when you should be using "I". Worry about why you play games, and stop assuming that the rest of us play for the same reasons.
Obtaining the items is what the game may be about for you, but for others they are only concerned with using those same items. That's how they have fun. Stop assuming that everyone is going to play for the same reasons as you, with the same motivations. And stop assuming that your way of playing is the only way.
Do what you enjoy, and let others do the same.
alright here is my quick tale:
ive played WoW since it was released; ive leveled maybe 4/5 toons up to 60 then to 70; i still havent currently no 80's. i got bored of the game and sold my account for a few hundred dollars; now i ask you. why would someone buy it rather than do it themselves? because 1; they dont haev the time sink BUT want a to play the with friends and or compete in the end game content (which is the driving force for leveling in the first place is it not?)
now we ask; why did I sell it for a few hundred dollars instead of giving it away? because I AM the one who spent time ti cultivate the characters to where they are now, if the buyer had spent half of the time i did playing .. they wouldnt have been buying the account now would they =P. its Time spent = assertained value.
now this translates into items as well as gold. for many number of reasons - time = money.
i could go spend 3 hours farming mobs and doing dailys or... i could go and spend my money I earned, and buy it from someone who already has or shows the value of the time spent for such item in translation to cash amount.
lets take a look at F2P WarRock where they have a full on RMT system for weapons and such.. i blatantly cant access them without paying; why should paying money to the developer of the game I am partially enjoying be rewarded with nothing?
be happy they are even giving players something worthwhile instead of a ingame mail of [brown dog poo]
.. otehrwise at one point or another.. we are all gonna have stinky hands
- do note i am buying a friends 70 paladin so i can hit 80 on it,,, ive already dropped 90$ for the cd keys .. and approx 150$ for the character itself .. why? because i HATE leveling. im sorry but a few hours is fine but not measured in -days played INGAME- . yet i still enjoy the game.
Buying an account from a player is different than being able to buy an account with 80's from the company.
This argument shows people have really forgotten what and why we play games. The "time" shouldn't be even an argument. Games are meant to be played and to be an enjoyable hobby/pastime. If you are concerned with the time it takes to play like it is a job or something you are not getting the enjoyment out of the game and probably should move to some other game or something else for your leisure enjoyment.
It has nothing to do with "fairness". Buying items is simply not gameplay. There is already a currency and that is the currency in the game. There is no need to introduce real life to these games. That is what they are by the way, games. They are meant to take some amount of time because you play them. If you do not have time to play one certain game, then you would be doing youself a favor by going to one you can get the satisfaction of playing and enjoying.
If you do not have time to play a game by the way even if you purchase items to make the game "fair", you can't buy what you initially bought the game for and that is the experience of playing it. The items are not worth nothing. Obtaining the item is what the game is about. It is the experience of getting the item is something you will never get to experience by buying items. I would advise you reevaluate what a game is and why you play them.
You use the term "WE" when you should be using "I". Worry about why you play games, and stop assuming that the rest of us play for the same reasons.
Obtaining the items is what the game may be about for you, but for others they are only concerned with using those same items. That's how they have fun. Stop assuming that everyone is going to play for the same reasons as you, with the same motivations. And stop assuming that your way of playing is the only way.
Do what you enjoy, and let others do the same.
This isn't an opinion though. You may buy items and I personally will not. That isn't my argument though. I am stating a fact. Buying a digital item with your card does not buy you what you are missing out on and that is the game itself. The item is just the trophy showing what you did. The experience of PLAYING the game is the game. You can't buy that. That is just a fact. Buying a digital sword with your credit card isn't a playstyle because it isn't playing.
Would you purchase a single player game and get home and first thing wish you didn't have to play it. Do you buy single player games because of what items you obtain in it? Those are the questions I am curious about. There are games that do not require items and the joy in those are competition with others. Those games are fun too but if you ever feel the need to purchase an item with a credit card in a game to AVOID playing to get it then it is time to evaluate whether this is a fun game or maybe a poorly designed game to where it takes too much time to the point it becomes unfun.
Why pay for a game with things in it you dislike? Go to a game maker than can make a fun gaming experience where you feel you do not need to buy items because you are actually having fun doing what you paid for, to play the game. I wouldn't support games that I feel are unfun or do not fit my playstyle. I play games that I enjoy to play because it is just a game. Would you join a soccer team and instead of playing just buy the trophy? Just something to think about. This is to just show RMT for what it is. Gamers who play the wrong games for them.
true. i dont advocate account selling by the company itself; (help in player to player trading and selling YES, lord YES. minimize the risk imo);
i do draw the line however on whether or not the item is more powerful than what I can get in game without paying ( in the instance of item RMT) , this is a bit hazier of a line with accounts imo- an item is a tool; the character is somehting the new owner actually has to learn the ins and outs rahter than just equip.
I am sure you are a good guy, nothing personal against you by quoting your post. I just seen many opportunities to bring across my points in this post. I really do not have anything against the people that say they don't have time to play so they would like to purchase items. I honestly do not. I actually feel for these folks and think there are better alternatives to meet the needs of these folks. I have thought about a game like WoW where there are not levels you start with a character and the game starts basically with everyone "maxed". You then progress via first smaller dungeons and then on. Just an idea, may save some people that have limite time with a game designed just for them where they can enjoy. Imagine WoW with no levels. You login and start doing 5 man dungeons and so on or PvP etc.
in the other thread that one guy irked the crp out of me and i let myself get loose, sorry
- but meh the main reason i still play WoW, its not for the content but rather its for me to spend time with friends i met during the game ( and i now work with in my company) to communicate and have something in common. I did stop at a point; for about 4 months, jumped back into the game with my friends with RAF and i got burned out really fast;
right now im taking it nice and slow on my paladin (prot ftw lol), but meh.. really i do believe that the only reason people play a game they dont like IS the connections they had or a sense of trying to find that lost sense when they first played for 18 hours a day like i had.
just boils down to raw emotions trying to reconnect
(due note ive tried AoC/WAR/F2P games i hate due to large hacker pops;; heck i said enough of this and found a few friends with the same ideas (and some not of the same ideas) and made a company to try and make a game with the fixes.)
*edit: bloody typos... i still think i missed some
-- in response to your edit of wow with no levels-
for Fallen that is close to what the aim is, desensitizing the player from the need to level via : 1-20 = newb levels, training goes by decently fast- then you can play with the regulars City raid/leave the planet make your own company/pvp hell even maybe actually play the rpg (the main focus xD) and explore the world while doing realistic missions and your actions actually affect the world .. and how it responses to you.
quick amalgation(sp?) of previous games that have certain similarities:
Diablo 2 : armor stats/gearing ways
Mass Effect: deeper morality and looking at cross planet colonization and interaction- where everything you do affects everything
GoW: hiding movement; 3rd person or 1st shooting style
with a mixture of personal storytelling all set in a dystopian universe.. where the player isnt a hero; but a tool which can at the end become a hero ... or villian..
100% free form we dont force you to do anything
- and ofc we have the limited RMT thing being looked at to combat the underhanders rather than for profit.
It's okay we all get heated sometimes. I know I have on topics I am passionate about. I hope your game is successful.
I don't get your sentiment on this. If i work 40 hours a week doing construction work and decide to work overtime for another 20 hours with overpay..i should get more money than somebody only able to put in 40 hours because i worked harder. Thats the natural order of things and it is quite fair. The guy that cannot put in the extra hours have no reason to complain he doesn't get paid as much since he doesn't put in the hours.
This thinking is flawed since you could very well be putting in more hours just to reach the amount I'm being pay for my 40 hours of work. You're thinking that you SHOULD get more for working longer than me but are failing to take in consideration other factors in the equation. This is even more disturbing when you believe that this is the natural order of things and is fair, when we all know nothing in life is fair, period. There will always be things in life that give others the advantage. Having the ability to choose is the only thing fair that any of us have.
RMT is a whole other issue that can't be compared with time. Time for most of us is free..money isn't. A gamer that can't put in the hours to get better gear than those that can shouldn't be able to obtain the same level of gear period.
I'm vehmently against RMT and i have absolutely no desire of evening the playingfield when it comes to gear. I'm a stout believer in everybody earning what they are willing or able to work for. If that creates an unbalance from rich to poor then i am fine with that. It is how it should be. This idea that we all should be equal is nonsense. Society doesn't work like that and neither should virtual worlds in MMORPGS with their own economy. That is what i consider fair.
How can you justify somebody playing 10 hours a month able to obtain the same gear as somebody able to play 60 hours?
It's called being efficient, if it takes you longer to what I did in 10 hours then how am I at fault? People who use RMT in games are just as likely buying efficiency to empower the little time they do have. It's when others that make it their business to stick their nose into what I am doing that creates the problem. So what I paid for my exp boost to level faster or I bought a new weapon to help me finish my quest I couldn't find a group for. I fail to see how this is unfair. If we both are PvPers and I can afford to buy some gear to kick ass then so be it. Professional sport players do it all the time and as long as it 's in the guidelines provided by the rules then what's the fuss?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I see a lot of people using metaphors to try to explain this to the "opposing side".
For me, it's simple. Things like "let everyone play the way they want" doesn't work for me because any game that has RMT for ingame useful items always strongly (and in my opinion adversely) affects the market for that game. So letting others play the way they want definitely does affect my game.
If a game wants to allow RMT, decide that from the start, do not add it in months or years later, because it will radically alter the economy of the game.
For myself, I will always avoid such games.
FWIW, I didn't mind a bit when Guild Wars allowed RM purchases of extra character slots. Has zero bearing on game economy. Purchases that meet that definition are fine to me.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I agree with the latest poster to a degree; as an artist i feel a STRONG compelling love for my artwork i worked hard to create- but i wont scrutinize someone who buys aides to drawing ; its their experience not mine. so long as I am able to show my work and retain my own self dignity its all cool.. now i may rant about how that bloke over there re-uses stock images he bought, rather than drawing it by hand with no visual aide. but i still accept that is how they wish to do their artwork
- i hope you see the analogy being used in a real world application; a game is nothing mor than another world in which we escape our real world; somethings wont be all purty and unicorn prancing(or goblin heads flying about with arcane torrents piercing your body), but its what we make of it all that dictates our enjoyment level
*typos yet again .. i cant escape them !!
Some people want to buy a diecast model of their favorite car, just to look at.
Some will want to buy a matchbox car they can play with.
Some will get more joy from building a model of a car than they would actually playing it.
Analogies are fun!
This argument shows people have really forgotten what and why we play games. The "time" shouldn't be even an argument. Games are meant to be played and to be an enjoyable hobby/pastime. If you are concerned with the time it takes to play like it is a job or something you are not getting the enjoyment out of the game and probably should move to some other game or something else for your leisure enjoyment.
It has nothing to do with "fairness". Buying items is simply not gameplay. There is already a currency and that is the currency in the game. There is no need to introduce real life to these games. That is what they are by the way, games. They are meant to take some amount of time because you play them. If you do not have time to play one certain game, then you would be doing youself a favor by going to one you can get the satisfaction of playing and enjoying.
If you do not have time to play a game by the way even if you purchase items to make the game "fair", you can't buy what you initially bought the game for and that is the experience of playing it. The items are not worth nothing. Obtaining the item is what the game is about. It is the experience of getting the item is something you will never get to experience by buying items. I would advise you reevaluate what a game is and why you play them.
You use the term "WE" when you should be using "I". Worry about why you play games, and stop assuming that the rest of us play for the same reasons.
Obtaining the items is what the game may be about for you, but for others they are only concerned with using those same items. That's how they have fun. Stop assuming that everyone is going to play for the same reasons as you, with the same motivations. And stop assuming that your way of playing is the only way.
Do what you enjoy, and let others do the same.
This isn't an opinion though. You may buy items and I personally will not. That isn't my argument though. I am stating a fact. Buying a digital item with your card does not buy you what you are missing out on and that is the game itself. The item is just the trophy showing what you did. The experience of PLAYING the game is the game. You can't buy that. That is just a fact. Buying a digital sword with your credit card isn't a playstyle because it isn't playing.
Would you purchase a single player game and get home and first thing wish you didn't have to play it. Do you buy single player games because of what items you obtain in it? Those are the questions I am curious about. There are games that do not require items and the joy in those are competition with others. Those games are fun too but if you ever feel the need to purchase an item with a credit card in a game to AVOID playing to get it then it is time to evaluate whether this is a fun game or maybe a poorly designed game to where it takes too much time to the point it becomes unfun.
Why pay for a game with things in it you dislike? Go to a game maker than can make a fun gaming experience where you feel you do not need to buy items because you are actually having fun doing what you paid for, to play the game. I wouldn't support games that I feel are unfun or do not fit my playstyle. I play games that I enjoy to play because it is just a game. Would you join a soccer team and instead of playing just buy the trophy? Just something to think about. This is to just show RMT for what it is. Gamers who play the wrong games for them.
Just because you buy and like a game does not mean you enjoy every single aspect.
I really liked No More Heroes, especially the story and boss fights, the junk in between, not so much. I still beat it though. If i could've skipped the parts I thought were really crappy I would have.
Games aren't as simple as if you like a game, everything it is must be enjoyable or if you don't like a game, it must all suck.
Before I even read these posts
There is no such thing as a balanced game.
If you want equalness, go to North Korea.
Time will make the game unbalanced. RMT will make the game unbalanced. It is ok if you are better than someone else because you have better gear or more time. You spent money or you spent time, you deserve to have that edge.
Why do people want to make time seen as an unbalancing format for MMOs? Yeah, I know there are some MMOs that got the wrong idea when making their curve, but well, if you have fun while you play a game, it's natural for the one to play more to have more fun than the one that plays less. The broken thing is when they penalize the ones that play less too much, with things like getting one-shot by the epic legendary weapon of death that the true hardcore could get after their 100-hour non-stop dungeon run.
It's a funny thing though, people want to pay more for game companies when it is actually their fault for making players want to RMT, this is why I will not support RMTing in GAMES, they are GAMES not a real commitment. They want to pay for lack of content and lack of fun to boost into the content, that is RMTing in most cases it gets highlighted, not me thanks. I pay for content, not for virtual items that will make me feel good because my credit card power allowed me to beat that poor player that spends 10 hours a day, and I play only one hour. The idea of beating the other guy in itself is broken in that game.
The idea of only the end-game being fun is breaking the time spent equals fun progression and replacing it with a time spent is a condition for fun, you can relate it to the broken level concept, broken item mall content that is the evolution of the broken level concept by allowing players to reduce the time condition for fun and then creating a whole new level of grind that is real money when it is added as a in-game currency.
First off, I'd like to comment that I think the title of this thread is misleading. RMT is not unbalancing, nor is time disparity. Games which use one or the other as a method to advance play are designed from the ground up (hopefully) for that style of play. If you enter a game where RMT exists, and someone uses RMT there, the game is not unbalanced - you entered KNOWING the rules of that game. If you want to balance the equation you are free to spend your money too. Likewise, if you want to compete on time spent in time sink games, that's your choice - but you knew what the game was like before you started playing it.
The comments about "buying stuff is not playing a game" sorta bug me too. Yes, it certainly is! It's just not the *same* sort of game as one where you don't need to purchase things to play. Consider Magic: the Gathering, a game where buying cards certainly had an impact on one's success. Or golf, where quality of one's gear matters a lot. Or car racing, where it matters even more. Consider FPS games, where the quality of computer you have directly impacts your success against other players. There are many, many games where commitment of money doesn't help very much at all; but there are just as many in which purchase of things to improve your game is an integral part of the game.
People often fail to remember what RMT really is. Generally, RMT is not "pay X cash to get all the game rewards early". Almost always, RMT purchases are things which you use for a while (sometimes even one shot, like potions) which improve the speed with which you progress. They don't make you skip the fun - they make the game more fun for people, by reducing The Grind and making progression happen at a faster rate. For some people, that isn't fun; for others, it is.
Owyn
Commander, Defenders of Order
http://www.defendersoforder.com