The poll will always show the majority of players be against RMT, but all MMO companies are moving towards it because they can, and they make more money that way. Kinda like politics, majority of americans can vote one way, but the government still will spend the other. They do it because they can, and they make money off doing it.
That's the unfortunate and sad reality.
Just as in politics if you are smart you stay knowledgeable on what is happening and make your decisions with your votes. In the game world if you seriously do not agree with how a MMO producer does something, the best thing to do is vote with your wallet. If everyone decided to not play games they do not agree then the producer's will not produce them.
I have no problem with RMT as long as there is a parallel method for getting items via traditional time sinks. There is little to no skills involved in any MMO on the market today. Look it's not fair that people can play 8 hours a day while I have to work 40-60 hours a week and have two kids that need attention. RMT is in every game out there that I have played, legally or not. So instead of enabling the annoying gold farming industry, have the publisher sell the gold and pocket the money. As long as both avenues are available then it's all good.
Besides, for those of you that are upset of RMT transactions, just think, you get to play more of the game than the RMT customers anyway.
So you guys that are voting no RMT ever are you then saying you are willing to pay 15 dollars a month for every single MMO??....You do realize about 90 percent of these games will never make it with that payment structure right??
If they took their time and made quality games with all they promise in them and with interconnecting systems that interact in a sensible way...maybe they would survive. To me, it's telling that most of the first generation MMOs are still alive and kicking, but more than a few of the second generation and on are being closed down.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I have no problem with RMT as long as there is a parallel method for getting items via traditional time sinks. There is little to no skills involved in any MMO on the market today. Look it's not fair that people can play 8 hours a day while I have to work 40-60 hours a week and have two kids that need attention. RMT is in every game out there that I have played, legally or not. So instead of enabling the annoying gold farming industry, have the publisher sell the gold and pocket the money. As long as both avenues are available then it's all good. Besides, for those of you that are upset of RMT transactions, just think, you get to play more of the game than the RMT customers anyway.
What is this fair garbage? This is a game we are talking about. I simply do not play games I feel I do not have time to play. Simple! TIME is the game. Do you people not get that? If you do not have time to play a game the way it was meant to be played then play something you do have time to play and enjoy. These are fun after all. IF SOME GAME FEELS TO YOU LIKE IT IS NOTHING BUT A GRIND AND IS NOT FUN >>>>>>>>>>> QUIT IT. Stop being a fool and handing these people your money.
I have no problem with RMT as long as there is a parallel method for getting items via traditional time sinks. There is little to no skills involved in any MMO on the market today. Look it's not fair that people can play 8 hours a day while I have to work 40-60 hours a week and have two kids that need attention. RMT is in every game out there that I have played, legally or not. So instead of enabling the annoying gold farming industry, have the publisher sell the gold and pocket the money. As long as both avenues are available then it's all good. Besides, for those of you that are upset of RMT transactions, just think, you get to play more of the game than the RMT customers anyway.
What is this fair garbage? This is a game we are talking about. I simply do not play games I feel I do not have time to play. Simple! TIME is the game. Do you people not get that? If you do not have time to play a game the way it was meant to be played then play something you do have time to play and enjoy. These are fun after all. IF SOME GAME FEELS TO YOU LIKE IT IS NOTHING BUT A GRIND AND IS NOT FUN >>>>>>>>>>> QUIT IT. Stop being a fool and handing these people your money.
Or, perhaps I enjoy playing a game a few hours a week. However, I want to play with my friends who have more time than me. Should I just quit? Or would it not be better that the devs get my coin rather than some Chinese company? It's not like any company has had a lot of success keeping RMT out anyway.
On another note, if RMT is included into a game, then that IS how the game is supposed to be played. When I play a game, I want it to be fun. If someone will let me skip the parts I don't care for so I can play the parts I do in my spare time, I really don't see the problem. As long as you have the same ability to either pay or play to get the same things, then there is no problem.
The only issue here is that some people are stuck on the fact that getting some trinket or level is something to be proud of. MMOs are just time sinks, sometimes enjoyable ones, but time sinks none the less. There is little skill involved other than patience and the ability to endure repetitious tasks. I get that some people really enjoy that model, I have little problem with it. However, I also do not have an issue on letting someone RMT their way through the game. Really it does little to affect you other than removing the "Bragging Rights" that some folks seem to think go hand in hand with video games.
Let people play how they want. Devs, give us lots of choices, both in game play and subscription options. I'm for it all.
61 people (that actually voted) of the 121 say ALL RMT is bad. That's 50.4% (rounded, it's 50.5%).Additionally, 24% (rounded) said "RMT is ok so long as it is restricted to trivial items that dont significantly affect gameplay or the player economy".
Looks like it's pretty clear, some are "ok" with RMT as long as it's not a gambling scam like SOE is doing with virtual "Trading Cards", and a LARGE majority say ZERO RMT. Doesn't look too good for you cheap kiddy buggards whom want to ruin good MMO's with RMT over P2P.
I love watching pro-RMT people running themselves around & around the same subject, each time making themselves look more silly weeee !
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
61 people (that actually voted) of the 121 say ALL RMT is bad. That's 50.4% (rounded, it's 50.5%).Additionally, 24% (rounded) said "RMT is ok so long as it is restricted to trivial items that dont significantly affect gameplay or the player economy". Looks like it's pretty clear, some are "ok" with RMT as long as it's not a gambling scam like SOE is doing with virtual "Trading Cards", and a LARGE majority say ZERO RMT. Doesn't look too good for you cheap kiddy buggards whom want to ruin good MMO's with RMT over P2P. I love watching pro-RMT people running themselves around & around the same subject, each time making themselves look more silly weeee !
See I can handle that you make a valid point on the numbers in the poll. I could then make a reasoned arguement that this site is not really indicative of the target market. Based on this site, a sandbox clone of SWG is what the market really wants, and then reality says that polished themeparks are what people are really after. Or we could talk about people who read about MMOs on a forum are likely going to be some of your more dedicated players and don't want to see any short cuts nor pay anything more than a flat fee.
Of course that doesn't address anything about the fact that RMT is in every game out there. So you can either let the Chinese profit from it, or the devs. At least if the devs see the revenue there is more of a chance that your game benefits from it. Even if that just means that the game is more popular and they keep the doors open longer.
Finally, I could just reply in kind and say something like; "Doesn't look to good for you cheap jobless basement dwellers whom want to flash their EPeen and talk about l33t skills because they can go longer between bathroom breaks."
I fail to see any problem with RMT in a game as long as the same rewards are available through standard play. Assuming that it is, how does that negatively affect you? The answer is that it actually benefits you. Theoretically the devs can change a lower price point or keep on more development resources. The RMT player is then subsidising your play experience. You can get your rewards from the more traditional methods and everyone is happy... oh With the exception of the aforementioned EPeen waving.
I have no problem with RMT as long as there is a parallel method for getting items via traditional time sinks. There is little to no skills involved in any MMO on the market today. Look it's not fair that people can play 8 hours a day while I have to work 40-60 hours a week and have two kids that need attention. RMT is in every game out there that I have played, legally or not. So instead of enabling the annoying gold farming industry, have the publisher sell the gold and pocket the money. As long as both avenues are available then it's all good. Besides, for those of you that are upset of RMT transactions, just think, you get to play more of the game than the RMT customers anyway.
What is this fair garbage? This is a game we are talking about. I simply do not play games I feel I do not have time to play. Simple! TIME is the game. Do you people not get that? If you do not have time to play a game the way it was meant to be played then play something you do have time to play and enjoy. These are fun after all. IF SOME GAME FEELS TO YOU LIKE IT IS NOTHING BUT A GRIND AND IS NOT FUN >>>>>>>>>>> QUIT IT. Stop being a fool and handing these people your money.
TIME is not the game, CONTENT is the game. Do you not get that?
One mob equals 10 xp. One Quest equals 20 xp.
If I kill one mob I get 10 xp. If I do one Quest I get 20 xp.
If YOU kill one mob you get 10xp. If you do one Quest, you get 20xp.
Serious question: "Why is it not fair that they skip content?"
If you actually like the content, you are playing it to actually play it. If you are doing it for a piece of bling at the end does it matter if you played the content or bought the content?
What is not fair about it, you both had the same options to get what you wanted. You both could kill 10 snipes or pay $1 to get the bling. Why would it bother you whatever path someone took? It would not be fair if you were forced to do something that another player could not. This is not the case, both of you were presented with the same options. It's totally fair.
What you are telling me is that you really don't like the mechanics of the game and resent that someone else doesn't have to suffer through them. If the game is fun, then you are rewarded for your effort with entertainment as well as the bling.
Serious question: "Why is it not fair that they skip content?" If you actually like the content, you are playing it to actually play it. If you are doing it for a piece of bling at the end does it matter if you played the content or bought the content? What is not fair about it, you both had the same options to get what you wanted. You both could kill 10 snipes or pay $1 to get the bling. Why would it bother you whatever path someone took? It would not be fair if you were forced to do something that another player could not. This is not the case, both of you were presented with the same options. It's totally fair. What you are telling me is that you really don't like the mechanics of the game and resent that someone else doesn't have to suffer through them. If the game is fun, then you are rewarded for your effort with entertainment as well as the bling.
And then they get to the point to giving content only for those that have items. Areas that are too hard for the normal player, PvP in which the one that spends the most will win, exclusive items avaiable only in the cash shop, it doesn't matter if you are good, skilled, you will only be able to get it if you pay for it as it is only avaiable in the cash shop. Or you will have to kill thousands more, repeat the instance a thousand times, take thousands hours more hours to do something one that spends money can skip. And it isn't an accomplishment anymore when it can be skipped with real money, it becomes foolishness to go the long way.
It bothers us when they start to own us in PvP just because they have spent more bucks then us, by equipment that is only viable/avaiable in the item malls, potions and buffs that are on a completely new degree compared to the non-item mall versions.
Serious question: "Why is it not fair that they skip content?" If you actually like the content, you are playing it to actually play it. If you are doing it for a piece of bling at the end does it matter if you played the content or bought the content? What is not fair about it, you both had the same options to get what you wanted. You both could kill 10 snipes or pay $1 to get the bling. Why would it bother you whatever path someone took? It would not be fair if you were forced to do something that another player could not. This is not the case, both of you were presented with the same options. It's totally fair. What you are telling me is that you really don't like the mechanics of the game and resent that someone else doesn't have to suffer through them. If the game is fun, then you are rewarded for your effort with entertainment as well as the bling.
How does 1 dollar equal (EXACTLY EQUAL) killing 10 snipes?
Explain that, and your post will make sense.
If DIFFERENT rules apply for different players in teh same game, THEN HOW IS IT FAIR?
Name any game you would call fair, where different rules apply to different players.
Name any game you would call fair where you can spend money to change the rules in your favor.
You can run 10 laps and I will give you a dollar. OR you can run one lap (shop at the item mall) and I will give you a dollar (loot).
Tell me any sane rational human being that would say they would run the 10 laps for the challenge, and do it happily every time, and it would make ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE they could just run one lap and get the same dollar.
SERIOUSLY?
If I can click and spend a dollar, do you really think I don't have a dollar? I do. See example above.
I don't have a problem with the idea of RMT, so long as it does not affect the economy or gameplay. The problem is that it is a very slippery slope.
A negative potentiality might be that developers purposely release a game with unappealing or limited aesthetic options, like hair styles, faces, armor/weapon graphics etc, as a way of boosting RMT and thus the bottom line.
The advantage would be that if they did release as an example, a new face or hairstyle, I could vote what I like for with my dollars directly, thereby encouraging the active creation of more of that type of content. It would be nice to have more cosmetic options, that's for sure.
And then they get to the point to giving content only for those that have items. Areas that are too hard for the normal player, PvP in which the one that spends the most will win, exclusive items avaiable only in the cash shop, it doesn't matter if you are good, skilled, you will only be able to get it if you pay for it as it is only avaiable in the cash shop. Or you will have to kill thousands more, repeat the instance a thousand times, take thousands hours more hours to do something one that spends money can skip. And it isn't an accomplishment anymore when it can be skipped with real money, it becomes foolishness to go the long way. It bothers us when they start to own us in PvP just because they have spent more bucks then us, by equipment that is only viable/avaiable in the item malls, potions and buffs that are on a completely new degree compared to the non-item mall versions.
My condition was that things were not exclusive to either method. I've stated that multiple times. So I won't bother to argue about exclusive item shop bling, I'd disagree with that as well unless it was a FTP game and that's the equivalent of your monthly fees. They have to keep the lights on somehow and if that's how they choose, well so be it.
I totally disagree with good and skilled players, they don't exist in MMOs. There is rarely any/much skill in the typical whack a mole type play. Most games out there are stat driven and timer based. Players typically confuse time spent with good and skill when they see how uber their toon is after outfitting the mega bling and gaining super epic plus levels. Nor are there any real acomplishments in MMOs these days either. There are time sinks and your acomplishments are nothing more than being able to endure the mind numbing tedium of whatever snipe hunts you are on. There are few exceptions of this across the whole genre.
It only becomes foolishness to go the long way, as you put it, when you don't like the game. If you are not willing to play the game, then ask yourself why are you playing? If you are having fun doing the content then enjoy and don't worry if someone skips ahead of you, you're having fun, right?
If the answer is, well I want to get to the fun parts, then you should be all about RMT to let you get to the fun parts. If not, then who cares how long it takes you, as long as you can do it, sit back and enjoy the ride.
As for the PvP arguement, again as long as you have access to the same stuff, there is no arguement. However, is it fair that you can spend 8 hours grinding snipes to get the uber helmet of pwnage while I can only spend 2 hours grinding those same snipes? Is there any real skill required in getting there? No. RMTs allow people who can not spend the time doing the dreadfully bad content that populates most level grinds to pass it up and finally have a fair footing with people who lorded over them with their presumed skillz.
How does 1 dollar equal (EXACTLY EQUAL) killing 10 snipes? Explain that, and your post will make sense. If DIFFERENT rules apply for different players in teh same game, THEN HOW IS IT FAIR? Name any game you would call fair, where different rules apply to different players. Name any game you would call fair where you can spend money to change the rules in your favor. You can run 10 laps and I will give you a dollar. OR you can run one lap (shop at the item mall) and I will give you a dollar (loot). Tell me any sane rational human being that would say they would run the 10 laps for the challenge, and do it happily every time, and it would make ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE they could just run one lap and get the same dollar. SERIOUSLY? If I can click and spend a dollar, do you really think I don't have a dollar? I do. See example above.
Ihmotepp, it's a metaphor, that's how $1 = 10 snipes. The devs figure that the time it takes you to kill 10 snipes is worth $1. They can set that bar however they choose, but for people to enjoy the game they should be fairly balanced in a real world time=money sort of method. IE, $10/hour is a decent rate for a store clerk. So 10 snipes should take you an hour to do.
Your argument fails because the rules are the same for all players. To get the glittery ring of bling you can either kill 10 snipes or pay $1. Every player in the game can make that choice so the rules apply to each and every player. Nothing is unfair since everyone has the same in game options.
The people who can not pay for the item are in no way different than the people complaining of not having enough time in the current crop of games. Currently time challenged people feel slighted by raid content. In RMT games money challenged people feel slighted by item mall content. So put both in. If you have time, spend it. If you have money, spend it. In the end everyone should be happy... they won't because there are less oportunities for EPeen waggling, but you can't change human nature. Look at this thread. Every argument seems to boil down to "he's cutting ahead of me and I'm good!" There is no good in MMOs, just a walking pile of stats.
Now lets go to the second portion of your arguement while I think you messed up your premise, I got the idea. So fine, the reward is to get a medal. You can do so by running 10 laps, or paying $1. You asked why anyone would ever run the 10 laps. If I liked to run, I'd happily run instead of paying. I like to run, why would I pay to get something I would do for fun anyway? Lets expand that to a triathalon.
Each stage is 1 medal:
Running, biking and swimming.
I really hate running, but I want to participate. I can opt out of the running for $1 and that gets me to the biking and swiming part. Sure, I'll happily pay that and then move to the parts I enjoy. You have the same choice as me and can do it all, or perhaps Run and Swim. In the end, we all get our three medals so everyone goes home happy.
If you like the content/game you won't pay unless you have a good reason.
I'm alright with RMT for services that have extra hardware or personnel requirements (server transfers, character renames, et cetera), but I wouldn't touch a game that was entirely funded by a cash shop. That sort of payment model tends to change gameplay to make the item mall objects and services all-but-mandatory, typically making free play "theoretically possible" but entirely unpleasant. If the RMT aspect of the game isn't heavily-pushed by gameplay, it won't be able to sustain enough income to fund development.
Now, I should state that I'm not against the existence of RMT-based games. A big part of the world (Asia) seems to love them, and it's just not my place to judge an entire continent. Furthermore, subscription-based payment schemes tend to require a large investment of time to achieve "success," as opposed to the RMT investment of money to achieve similar levels of "success;" there are people in the world who have far more money than time, and RMT models would potentially be more attractive to them.
Personally, I like the theme park analogy, even if it's flawed for the purposes of this conversation. Generally speaking, though, I like the idea of a single "gate fee" that grants equal access to everything in the park, and I mean everything. $15-20 a month grants me as much entertainment as I have time to experience; the only time I'm reminded of real world finances is when I get spam mail from gold sellers. In RMT games, I'm typically reminded of real world finances at every turn, whether it's running a quest, crafting, or any of a hundred other things: "For superior crafting tools, visit our website!" I don't like that and I never will, but I can't and won't speak for every player in the world.
But if im paying a premium subscription then there should not be any RMT. That includes so called TCG loot card scam like how SOE implemented it in SWG.
I think games should sell cash not items, therfore not affecting gameplay all that much. That way players that have money and not time can buy in game cash and still compete, and those that have time and not money can still compete as well. I think that is the only real way to balance RMT and keep it from becoming a bot factory as well.
Players WILL always try to sell things in game for real cash as long as a game has freedom of trade and no real competition. This solution solves both the problems of the game getting over run with bots, and not destroy a games freedom of trade. Since in game cash can be obtained in game as well, it doesn;t change the outcome in the game.
The only people who should be making money off the game are the developers, so it makse sense for them to get the profits from RMT as well. They can use that money to offer a lower subscription fee and offer more in game content. I see that as a win win solution for both players and developers.
I strongly oppose games selling items at all instead of cash because that affects the gameplay of players. Games just selling cash not items was not listed as an option in your poll.
I strongly oppose games selling items at all instead of cash because that affects the gameplay of players. Games just selling cash not items was not listed as an option in your poll.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I am currious how does selling items affect your gameplay? As long as you have an avenue where you can get those items without paying for them, what effect on you is there?
I strongly oppose games selling items at all instead of cash because that affects the gameplay of players. Games just selling cash not items was not listed as an option in your poll.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I am currious how does selling items affect your gameplay? As long as you have an avenue where you can get those items without paying for them, what effect on you is there?
First off, since I oppose players selling items in game , because the developers should be the ones getting paid for their game, if the game itself was introducing more items into the game via cash shop it would affect the in game economy of those items. Keeping it strictly to cash allows for them to still buy whatever they need in game from other players, and not affecting the in game sale value of such items. The in game economy would not be affected all that much because the sale price of items would still be determined by difficulty to obtain, drop rate and demand.
I strongly oppose games selling items at all instead of cash because that affects the gameplay of players. Games just selling cash not items was not listed as an option in your poll.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I am currious how does selling items affect your gameplay? As long as you have an avenue where you can get those items without paying for them, what effect on you is there?
First off, since I oppose players selling items in game , because the developers should be the ones getting paid for their game, if the game itself was introducing more items into the game via cash shop it would affect the in game economy of those items. Keeping it strictly to cash allows for them to still buy whatever they need in game from other players, and not affecting the in game sale value of such items. The in game economy would not be affected all that much because the sale price of items would still be determined by difficulty to obtain, drop rate and demand.
But the players who spend a lot of real life cash are moving ahead of those who don't. It doesn't matter if you buy the item from a game shop, or buy the gold and then buy the item in game, those players are the one's moving ahead of the other players.
Now, you can say that the same thing happens with gaming time, that those who can play more often are moving ahead of others. And yes, that's a problem too. But of all the problems related to perceived "fairness", that's the most palatable to most gamers.
The thing in my mind is that time alone should not be the criteria for "success". This is why these MMO's are so damn boring. "Go here and do this for your reward". Where's the adventure in that? Nowhere, and thus the reason for the overwhelming boredom so many gamers have been complaining about for years now, and ever growing as each new release is "just more of the same grind".
I strongly oppose games selling items at all instead of cash because that affects the gameplay of players. Games just selling cash not items was not listed as an option in your poll.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I am currious how does selling items affect your gameplay? As long as you have an avenue where you can get those items without paying for them, what effect on you is there?
First off, since I oppose players selling items in game , because the developers should be the ones getting paid for their game, if the game itself was introducing more items into the game via cash shop it would affect the in game economy of those items. Keeping it strictly to cash allows for them to still buy whatever they need in game from other players, and not affecting the in game sale value of such items. The in game economy would not be affected all that much because the sale price of items would still be determined by difficulty to obtain, drop rate and demand.
But the players who spend a lot of real life cash are moving ahead of those who don't. It doesn't matter if you buy the item from a game shop, or buy the gold and then buy the item in game, those players are the one's moving ahead of the other players.
Now, you can say that the same thing happens with gaming time, that those who can play more often are moving ahead of others. And yes, that's a problem too. But of all the problems related to perceived "fairness", that's the most palatable to most gamers.
The thing in my mind is that time alone should not be the criteria for "success". This is why these MMO's are so damn boring. "Go here and do this for your reward". Where's the adventure in that? Nowhere, and thus the reason for the overwhelming boredom so many gamers have been complaining about for years now, and ever growing as each new release is "just more of the same grind".
Not neccessarily true, in order to obtain the "best armor" and the supplies, someone still has to get these items in game. Players with MORE time instead of cash will be the ones they buy these items from thus keeping it balanced. Whether someone has hours to play a day or just 30 min they should both be able to compete on the same level. This would balance hardcore vs casual player, help solve player bots because it won't be proftable to compete with the game itself, and provide minimal intrusion on game economy and allow them to let players trade freely.
You see, the casual gamer can go buy cash and then turns around and gives that in game money to the hardcore player balancing it out. This results in the win win situation.
I don't mind RMT in F2P games, but if there's RMT in a P2P game, it feels like the developers are greedy, lazy and stupid.
The "beauty" of RMT is that it allows developers to squeeze every last cent out of their customers. If anyone remembers their Economics 101 course, RMT is really just about making use of price discrimination to take as much consumer surplus as posslble. Basically, a $15/month subscription-based game won't get players who are only willing to pay $10/month and will seem like a great deal to a player willing to pay $50/month. A well-priced RMT will allow both of those players to pay close to their maximum willingness to pay and suddenly the developers are earning $60/month from these two players instead of $15/month from the one whose willing to pay. Outside of the occasional AAA P2P MMO which also relies on box sales for income, I think we'll be seeing more games take the F2P route.
That said, "well-priced" is the key word. If the game only really allows the $50/month players to realistically compete and complete content, then there's an issue. The new DDO model (pay monthly for all content or play free and purchase content as you want it) looks like it may work well in balancing the time vs. money debate that underlies these RMT threads.
The thing in my mind is that time alone should not be the criteria for "success". This is why these MMO's are so damn boring. "Go here and do this for your reward". Where's the adventure in that? Nowhere, and thus the reason for the overwhelming boredom so many gamers have been complaining about for years now, and ever growing as each new release is "just more of the same grind".
THIS!
This is where I was heading in this thread. RMT doesn't affect games where you are playing because you enjoy the game. Lets use a slightly more real world example using Disney, who I think gets entertainment.
When you are at Disney World, you can usually skip a line by using a fastpass. You can only have one fast pass at a time, but if you plan ahead, it's completely possible to go through the park without waiting in a single line. Disney gets that people hate lines. Yet, they also know that some people are going to end up in them. What do they do? On their newer attractions they put some amazing things to see in the line.
What happened? Well I met many people who actually don't use the fast pass because they want to see the line. Even though they could skip the wait to get to the attraction they still waited. Why? Well the wait was fun and neat to see.
Current MMOs don't get it. They know we need things to do, yet they have problems giving us things we want to do. Does anyone really want to kill 10 snipes? No, not really. Until they do get it, I fully support RMT in games to let people bypass the drugery, because that's all it is. No skill whack a mole courier type play... or I can do as I am now, and not play any of them.
People wouldn't resent RMT if the content they were playing was actually fun. As it is now, it's viewed as cutting in line as opposed to missing out on some cool stuff.
How does 1 dollar equal (EXACTLY EQUAL) killing 10 snipes? Explain that, and your post will make sense. If DIFFERENT rules apply for different players in teh same game, THEN HOW IS IT FAIR? Name any game you would call fair, where different rules apply to different players. Name any game you would call fair where you can spend money to change the rules in your favor. You can run 10 laps and I will give you a dollar. OR you can run one lap (shop at the item mall) and I will give you a dollar (loot). Tell me any sane rational human being that would say they would run the 10 laps for the challenge, and do it happily every time, and it would make ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE they could just run one lap and get the same dollar. SERIOUSLY? If I can click and spend a dollar, do you really think I don't have a dollar? I do. See example above.
Ihmotepp, it's a metaphor, that's how $1 = 10 snipes. The devs figure that the time it takes you to kill 10 snipes is worth $1. They can set that bar however they choose, but for people to enjoy the game they should be fairly balanced in a real world time=money sort of method. IE, $10/hour is a decent rate for a store clerk. So 10 snipes should take you an hour to do.
Your argument fails because the rules are the same for all players. To get the glittery ring of bling you can either kill 10 snipes or pay $1. Every player in the game can make that choice so the rules apply to each and every player. Nothing is unfair since everyone has the same in game options.
The people who can not pay for the item are in no way different than the people complaining of not having enough time in the current crop of games. Currently time challenged people feel slighted by raid content. In RMT games money challenged people feel slighted by item mall content. So put both in. If you have time, spend it. If you have money, spend it. In the end everyone should be happy... they won't because there are less oportunities for EPeen waggling, but you can't change human nature. Look at this thread. Every argument seems to boil down to "he's cutting ahead of me and I'm good!" There is no good in MMOs, just a walking pile of stats.
Now lets go to the second portion of your arguement while I think you messed up your premise, I got the idea. So fine, the reward is to get a medal. You can do so by running 10 laps, or paying $1. You asked why anyone would ever run the 10 laps. If I liked to run, I'd happily run instead of paying. I like to run, why would I pay to get something I would do for fun anyway? Lets expand that to a triathalon.
Each stage is 1 medal:
Running, biking and swimming.
I really hate running, but I want to participate. I can opt out of the running for $1 and that gets me to the biking and swiming part. Sure, I'll happily pay that and then move to the parts I enjoy. You have the same choice as me and can do it all, or perhaps Run and Swim. In the end, we all get our three medals so everyone goes home happy.
If you like the content/game you won't pay unless you have a good reason.
To be a player of a game you must actually play it.
The thing in my mind is that time alone should not be the criteria for "success". This is why these MMO's are so damn boring. "Go here and do this for your reward". Where's the adventure in that? Nowhere, and thus the reason for the overwhelming boredom so many gamers have been complaining about for years now, and ever growing as each new release is "just more of the same grind".
THIS!
This is where I was heading in this thread. RMT doesn't affect games where you are playing because you enjoy the game. Lets use a slightly more real world example using Disney, who I think gets entertainment.
When you are at Disney World, you can usually skip a line by using a fastpass. You can only have one fast pass at a time, but if you plan ahead, it's completely possible to go through the park without waiting in a single line. Disney gets that people hate lines. Yet, they also know that some people are going to end up in them. What do they do? On their newer attractions they put some amazing things to see in the line.
What happened? Well I met many people who actually don't use the fast pass because they want to see the line. Even though they could skip the wait to get to the attraction they still waited. Why? Well the wait was fun and neat to see.
Current MMOs don't get it. They know we need things to do, yet they have problems giving us things we want to do. Does anyone really want to kill 10 snipes? No, not really. Until they do get it, I fully support RMT in games to let people bypass the drugery, because that's all it is. No skill whack a mole courier type play... or I can do as I am now, and not play any of them.
People wouldn't resent RMT if the content they were playing was actually fun. As it is now, it's viewed as cutting in line as opposed to missing out on some cool stuff.
Yet you guys continue to pay for the crap that you feel is like what you are describing. Worse, you guys will still play the game and then buy virtual garbage from the developer of the game you feel is a poorly designed game. That's nuts. You are the ones keeping games without these timesinks away. Because YOU are the ones voting with your wallet by buying the games. I say if you feel the need to buy your way through a game, then you are playing the wrong game.
Comments
Just as in politics if you are smart you stay knowledgeable on what is happening and make your decisions with your votes. In the game world if you seriously do not agree with how a MMO producer does something, the best thing to do is vote with your wallet. If everyone decided to not play games they do not agree then the producer's will not produce them.
I have no problem with RMT as long as there is a parallel method for getting items via traditional time sinks. There is little to no skills involved in any MMO on the market today. Look it's not fair that people can play 8 hours a day while I have to work 40-60 hours a week and have two kids that need attention. RMT is in every game out there that I have played, legally or not. So instead of enabling the annoying gold farming industry, have the publisher sell the gold and pocket the money. As long as both avenues are available then it's all good.
Besides, for those of you that are upset of RMT transactions, just think, you get to play more of the game than the RMT customers anyway.
If they took their time and made quality games with all they promise in them and with interconnecting systems that interact in a sensible way...maybe they would survive. To me, it's telling that most of the first generation MMOs are still alive and kicking, but more than a few of the second generation and on are being closed down.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
What is this fair garbage? This is a game we are talking about. I simply do not play games I feel I do not have time to play. Simple! TIME is the game. Do you people not get that? If you do not have time to play a game the way it was meant to be played then play something you do have time to play and enjoy. These are fun after all. IF SOME GAME FEELS TO YOU LIKE IT IS NOTHING BUT A GRIND AND IS NOT FUN >>>>>>>>>>> QUIT IT. Stop being a fool and handing these people your money.
What is this fair garbage? This is a game we are talking about. I simply do not play games I feel I do not have time to play. Simple! TIME is the game. Do you people not get that? If you do not have time to play a game the way it was meant to be played then play something you do have time to play and enjoy. These are fun after all. IF SOME GAME FEELS TO YOU LIKE IT IS NOTHING BUT A GRIND AND IS NOT FUN >>>>>>>>>>> QUIT IT. Stop being a fool and handing these people your money.
Or, perhaps I enjoy playing a game a few hours a week. However, I want to play with my friends who have more time than me. Should I just quit? Or would it not be better that the devs get my coin rather than some Chinese company? It's not like any company has had a lot of success keeping RMT out anyway.
On another note, if RMT is included into a game, then that IS how the game is supposed to be played. When I play a game, I want it to be fun. If someone will let me skip the parts I don't care for so I can play the parts I do in my spare time, I really don't see the problem. As long as you have the same ability to either pay or play to get the same things, then there is no problem.
The only issue here is that some people are stuck on the fact that getting some trinket or level is something to be proud of. MMOs are just time sinks, sometimes enjoyable ones, but time sinks none the less. There is little skill involved other than patience and the ability to endure repetitious tasks. I get that some people really enjoy that model, I have little problem with it. However, I also do not have an issue on letting someone RMT their way through the game. Really it does little to affect you other than removing the "Bragging Rights" that some folks seem to think go hand in hand with video games.
Let people play how they want. Devs, give us lots of choices, both in game play and subscription options. I'm for it all.
61 people (that actually voted) of the 121 say ALL RMT is bad. That's 50.4% (rounded, it's 50.5%).Additionally, 24% (rounded) said "RMT is ok so long as it is restricted to trivial items that dont significantly affect gameplay or the player economy".
Looks like it's pretty clear, some are "ok" with RMT as long as it's not a gambling scam like SOE is doing with virtual "Trading Cards", and a LARGE majority say ZERO RMT. Doesn't look too good for you cheap kiddy buggards whom want to ruin good MMO's with RMT over P2P.
I love watching pro-RMT people running themselves around & around the same subject, each time making themselves look more silly weeee
!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
See I can handle that you make a valid point on the numbers in the poll. I could then make a reasoned arguement that this site is not really indicative of the target market. Based on this site, a sandbox clone of SWG is what the market really wants, and then reality says that polished themeparks are what people are really after. Or we could talk about people who read about MMOs on a forum are likely going to be some of your more dedicated players and don't want to see any short cuts nor pay anything more than a flat fee.
Of course that doesn't address anything about the fact that RMT is in every game out there. So you can either let the Chinese profit from it, or the devs. At least if the devs see the revenue there is more of a chance that your game benefits from it. Even if that just means that the game is more popular and they keep the doors open longer.
Finally, I could just reply in kind and say something like; "Doesn't look to good for you cheap jobless basement dwellers whom want to flash their EPeen and talk about l33t skills because they can go longer between bathroom breaks."
I fail to see any problem with RMT in a game as long as the same rewards are available through standard play. Assuming that it is, how does that negatively affect you? The answer is that it actually benefits you. Theoretically the devs can change a lower price point or keep on more development resources. The RMT player is then subsidising your play experience. You can get your rewards from the more traditional methods and everyone is happy... oh With the exception of the aforementioned EPeen waving.
What is this fair garbage? This is a game we are talking about. I simply do not play games I feel I do not have time to play. Simple! TIME is the game. Do you people not get that? If you do not have time to play a game the way it was meant to be played then play something you do have time to play and enjoy. These are fun after all. IF SOME GAME FEELS TO YOU LIKE IT IS NOTHING BUT A GRIND AND IS NOT FUN >>>>>>>>>>> QUIT IT. Stop being a fool and handing these people your money.
TIME is not the game, CONTENT is the game. Do you not get that?
One mob equals 10 xp. One Quest equals 20 xp.
If I kill one mob I get 10 xp. If I do one Quest I get 20 xp.
If YOU kill one mob you get 10xp. If you do one Quest, you get 20xp.
CONTENT, CONTENT, CONTENT, CONTENT, CONTENT, CONTENT.
Not time, not money. CONTENT>
If you can skip CONTENT, it destroys fairness.
Serious question: "Why is it not fair that they skip content?"
If you actually like the content, you are playing it to actually play it. If you are doing it for a piece of bling at the end does it matter if you played the content or bought the content?
What is not fair about it, you both had the same options to get what you wanted. You both could kill 10 snipes or pay $1 to get the bling. Why would it bother you whatever path someone took? It would not be fair if you were forced to do something that another player could not. This is not the case, both of you were presented with the same options. It's totally fair.
What you are telling me is that you really don't like the mechanics of the game and resent that someone else doesn't have to suffer through them. If the game is fun, then you are rewarded for your effort with entertainment as well as the bling.
And then they get to the point to giving content only for those that have items. Areas that are too hard for the normal player, PvP in which the one that spends the most will win, exclusive items avaiable only in the cash shop, it doesn't matter if you are good, skilled, you will only be able to get it if you pay for it as it is only avaiable in the cash shop. Or you will have to kill thousands more, repeat the instance a thousand times, take thousands hours more hours to do something one that spends money can skip. And it isn't an accomplishment anymore when it can be skipped with real money, it becomes foolishness to go the long way.
It bothers us when they start to own us in PvP just because they have spent more bucks then us, by equipment that is only viable/avaiable in the item malls, potions and buffs that are on a completely new degree compared to the non-item mall versions.
How does 1 dollar equal (EXACTLY EQUAL) killing 10 snipes?
Explain that, and your post will make sense.
If DIFFERENT rules apply for different players in teh same game, THEN HOW IS IT FAIR?
Name any game you would call fair, where different rules apply to different players.
Name any game you would call fair where you can spend money to change the rules in your favor.
You can run 10 laps and I will give you a dollar. OR you can run one lap (shop at the item mall) and I will give you a dollar (loot).
Tell me any sane rational human being that would say they would run the 10 laps for the challenge, and do it happily every time, and it would make ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE they could just run one lap and get the same dollar.
SERIOUSLY?
If I can click and spend a dollar, do you really think I don't have a dollar? I do. See example above.
I don't have a problem with the idea of RMT, so long as it does not affect the economy or gameplay. The problem is that it is a very slippery slope.
A negative potentiality might be that developers purposely release a game with unappealing or limited aesthetic options, like hair styles, faces, armor/weapon graphics etc, as a way of boosting RMT and thus the bottom line.
The advantage would be that if they did release as an example, a new face or hairstyle, I could vote what I like for with my dollars directly, thereby encouraging the active creation of more of that type of content. It would be nice to have more cosmetic options, that's for sure.
My condition was that things were not exclusive to either method. I've stated that multiple times. So I won't bother to argue about exclusive item shop bling, I'd disagree with that as well unless it was a FTP game and that's the equivalent of your monthly fees. They have to keep the lights on somehow and if that's how they choose, well so be it.
I totally disagree with good and skilled players, they don't exist in MMOs. There is rarely any/much skill in the typical whack a mole type play. Most games out there are stat driven and timer based. Players typically confuse time spent with good and skill when they see how uber their toon is after outfitting the mega bling and gaining super epic plus levels. Nor are there any real acomplishments in MMOs these days either. There are time sinks and your acomplishments are nothing more than being able to endure the mind numbing tedium of whatever snipe hunts you are on. There are few exceptions of this across the whole genre.
It only becomes foolishness to go the long way, as you put it, when you don't like the game. If you are not willing to play the game, then ask yourself why are you playing? If you are having fun doing the content then enjoy and don't worry if someone skips ahead of you, you're having fun, right?
If the answer is, well I want to get to the fun parts, then you should be all about RMT to let you get to the fun parts. If not, then who cares how long it takes you, as long as you can do it, sit back and enjoy the ride.
As for the PvP arguement, again as long as you have access to the same stuff, there is no arguement. However, is it fair that you can spend 8 hours grinding snipes to get the uber helmet of pwnage while I can only spend 2 hours grinding those same snipes? Is there any real skill required in getting there? No. RMTs allow people who can not spend the time doing the dreadfully bad content that populates most level grinds to pass it up and finally have a fair footing with people who lorded over them with their presumed skillz.
Ihmotepp, it's a metaphor, that's how $1 = 10 snipes. The devs figure that the time it takes you to kill 10 snipes is worth $1. They can set that bar however they choose, but for people to enjoy the game they should be fairly balanced in a real world time=money sort of method. IE, $10/hour is a decent rate for a store clerk. So 10 snipes should take you an hour to do.
Your argument fails because the rules are the same for all players. To get the glittery ring of bling you can either kill 10 snipes or pay $1. Every player in the game can make that choice so the rules apply to each and every player. Nothing is unfair since everyone has the same in game options.
The people who can not pay for the item are in no way different than the people complaining of not having enough time in the current crop of games. Currently time challenged people feel slighted by raid content. In RMT games money challenged people feel slighted by item mall content. So put both in. If you have time, spend it. If you have money, spend it. In the end everyone should be happy... they won't because there are less oportunities for EPeen waggling, but you can't change human nature. Look at this thread. Every argument seems to boil down to "he's cutting ahead of me and I'm good!" There is no good in MMOs, just a walking pile of stats.
Now lets go to the second portion of your arguement while I think you messed up your premise, I got the idea. So fine, the reward is to get a medal. You can do so by running 10 laps, or paying $1. You asked why anyone would ever run the 10 laps. If I liked to run, I'd happily run instead of paying. I like to run, why would I pay to get something I would do for fun anyway? Lets expand that to a triathalon.
Each stage is 1 medal:
Running, biking and swimming.
I really hate running, but I want to participate. I can opt out of the running for $1 and that gets me to the biking and swiming part. Sure, I'll happily pay that and then move to the parts I enjoy. You have the same choice as me and can do it all, or perhaps Run and Swim. In the end, we all get our three medals so everyone goes home happy.
If you like the content/game you won't pay unless you have a good reason.
I'm alright with RMT for services that have extra hardware or personnel requirements (server transfers, character renames, et cetera), but I wouldn't touch a game that was entirely funded by a cash shop. That sort of payment model tends to change gameplay to make the item mall objects and services all-but-mandatory, typically making free play "theoretically possible" but entirely unpleasant. If the RMT aspect of the game isn't heavily-pushed by gameplay, it won't be able to sustain enough income to fund development.
Now, I should state that I'm not against the existence of RMT-based games. A big part of the world (Asia) seems to love them, and it's just not my place to judge an entire continent. Furthermore, subscription-based payment schemes tend to require a large investment of time to achieve "success," as opposed to the RMT investment of money to achieve similar levels of "success;" there are people in the world who have far more money than time, and RMT models would potentially be more attractive to them.
Personally, I like the theme park analogy, even if it's flawed for the purposes of this conversation. Generally speaking, though, I like the idea of a single "gate fee" that grants equal access to everything in the park, and I mean everything. $15-20 a month grants me as much entertainment as I have time to experience; the only time I'm reminded of real world finances is when I get spam mail from gold sellers. In RMT games, I'm typically reminded of real world finances at every turn, whether it's running a quest, crafting, or any of a hundred other things: "For superior crafting tools, visit our website!" I don't like that and I never will, but I can't and won't speak for every player in the world.
Keep the RMT to the F2P games...that is fine.
But if im paying a premium subscription then there should not be any RMT. That includes so called TCG loot card scam like how SOE implemented it in SWG.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I think games should sell cash not items, therfore not affecting gameplay all that much. That way players that have money and not time can buy in game cash and still compete, and those that have time and not money can still compete as well. I think that is the only real way to balance RMT and keep it from becoming a bot factory as well.
Players WILL always try to sell things in game for real cash as long as a game has freedom of trade and no real competition. This solution solves both the problems of the game getting over run with bots, and not destroy a games freedom of trade. Since in game cash can be obtained in game as well, it doesn;t change the outcome in the game.
The only people who should be making money off the game are the developers, so it makse sense for them to get the profits from RMT as well. They can use that money to offer a lower subscription fee and offer more in game content. I see that as a win win solution for both players and developers.
I strongly oppose games selling items at all instead of cash because that affects the gameplay of players. Games just selling cash not items was not listed as an option in your poll.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I am currious how does selling items affect your gameplay? As long as you have an avenue where you can get those items without paying for them, what effect on you is there?
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I am currious how does selling items affect your gameplay? As long as you have an avenue where you can get those items without paying for them, what effect on you is there?
First off, since I oppose players selling items in game , because the developers should be the ones getting paid for their game, if the game itself was introducing more items into the game via cash shop it would affect the in game economy of those items. Keeping it strictly to cash allows for them to still buy whatever they need in game from other players, and not affecting the in game sale value of such items. The in game economy would not be affected all that much because the sale price of items would still be determined by difficulty to obtain, drop rate and demand.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I am currious how does selling items affect your gameplay? As long as you have an avenue where you can get those items without paying for them, what effect on you is there?
First off, since I oppose players selling items in game , because the developers should be the ones getting paid for their game, if the game itself was introducing more items into the game via cash shop it would affect the in game economy of those items. Keeping it strictly to cash allows for them to still buy whatever they need in game from other players, and not affecting the in game sale value of such items. The in game economy would not be affected all that much because the sale price of items would still be determined by difficulty to obtain, drop rate and demand.
But the players who spend a lot of real life cash are moving ahead of those who don't. It doesn't matter if you buy the item from a game shop, or buy the gold and then buy the item in game, those players are the one's moving ahead of the other players.
Now, you can say that the same thing happens with gaming time, that those who can play more often are moving ahead of others. And yes, that's a problem too. But of all the problems related to perceived "fairness", that's the most palatable to most gamers.
The thing in my mind is that time alone should not be the criteria for "success". This is why these MMO's are so damn boring. "Go here and do this for your reward". Where's the adventure in that? Nowhere, and thus the reason for the overwhelming boredom so many gamers have been complaining about for years now, and ever growing as each new release is "just more of the same grind".
Once upon a time....
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I am currious how does selling items affect your gameplay? As long as you have an avenue where you can get those items without paying for them, what effect on you is there?
First off, since I oppose players selling items in game , because the developers should be the ones getting paid for their game, if the game itself was introducing more items into the game via cash shop it would affect the in game economy of those items. Keeping it strictly to cash allows for them to still buy whatever they need in game from other players, and not affecting the in game sale value of such items. The in game economy would not be affected all that much because the sale price of items would still be determined by difficulty to obtain, drop rate and demand.
But the players who spend a lot of real life cash are moving ahead of those who don't. It doesn't matter if you buy the item from a game shop, or buy the gold and then buy the item in game, those players are the one's moving ahead of the other players.
Now, you can say that the same thing happens with gaming time, that those who can play more often are moving ahead of others. And yes, that's a problem too. But of all the problems related to perceived "fairness", that's the most palatable to most gamers.
The thing in my mind is that time alone should not be the criteria for "success". This is why these MMO's are so damn boring. "Go here and do this for your reward". Where's the adventure in that? Nowhere, and thus the reason for the overwhelming boredom so many gamers have been complaining about for years now, and ever growing as each new release is "just more of the same grind".
Not neccessarily true, in order to obtain the "best armor" and the supplies, someone still has to get these items in game. Players with MORE time instead of cash will be the ones they buy these items from thus keeping it balanced. Whether someone has hours to play a day or just 30 min they should both be able to compete on the same level. This would balance hardcore vs casual player, help solve player bots because it won't be proftable to compete with the game itself, and provide minimal intrusion on game economy and allow them to let players trade freely.
You see, the casual gamer can go buy cash and then turns around and gives that in game money to the hardcore player balancing it out. This results in the win win situation.
I don't mind RMT in F2P games, but if there's RMT in a P2P game, it feels like the developers are greedy, lazy and stupid.
The "beauty" of RMT is that it allows developers to squeeze every last cent out of their customers. If anyone remembers their Economics 101 course, RMT is really just about making use of price discrimination to take as much consumer surplus as posslble. Basically, a $15/month subscription-based game won't get players who are only willing to pay $10/month and will seem like a great deal to a player willing to pay $50/month. A well-priced RMT will allow both of those players to pay close to their maximum willingness to pay and suddenly the developers are earning $60/month from these two players instead of $15/month from the one whose willing to pay. Outside of the occasional AAA P2P MMO which also relies on box sales for income, I think we'll be seeing more games take the F2P route.
That said, "well-priced" is the key word. If the game only really allows the $50/month players to realistically compete and complete content, then there's an issue. The new DDO model (pay monthly for all content or play free and purchase content as you want it) looks like it may work well in balancing the time vs. money debate that underlies these RMT threads.
THIS!
This is where I was heading in this thread. RMT doesn't affect games where you are playing because you enjoy the game. Lets use a slightly more real world example using Disney, who I think gets entertainment.
When you are at Disney World, you can usually skip a line by using a fastpass. You can only have one fast pass at a time, but if you plan ahead, it's completely possible to go through the park without waiting in a single line. Disney gets that people hate lines. Yet, they also know that some people are going to end up in them. What do they do? On their newer attractions they put some amazing things to see in the line.
What happened? Well I met many people who actually don't use the fast pass because they want to see the line. Even though they could skip the wait to get to the attraction they still waited. Why? Well the wait was fun and neat to see.
Current MMOs don't get it. They know we need things to do, yet they have problems giving us things we want to do. Does anyone really want to kill 10 snipes? No, not really. Until they do get it, I fully support RMT in games to let people bypass the drugery, because that's all it is. No skill whack a mole courier type play... or I can do as I am now, and not play any of them.
People wouldn't resent RMT if the content they were playing was actually fun. As it is now, it's viewed as cutting in line as opposed to missing out on some cool stuff.
Ihmotepp, it's a metaphor, that's how $1 = 10 snipes. The devs figure that the time it takes you to kill 10 snipes is worth $1. They can set that bar however they choose, but for people to enjoy the game they should be fairly balanced in a real world time=money sort of method. IE, $10/hour is a decent rate for a store clerk. So 10 snipes should take you an hour to do.
Your argument fails because the rules are the same for all players. To get the glittery ring of bling you can either kill 10 snipes or pay $1. Every player in the game can make that choice so the rules apply to each and every player. Nothing is unfair since everyone has the same in game options.
The people who can not pay for the item are in no way different than the people complaining of not having enough time in the current crop of games. Currently time challenged people feel slighted by raid content. In RMT games money challenged people feel slighted by item mall content. So put both in. If you have time, spend it. If you have money, spend it. In the end everyone should be happy... they won't because there are less oportunities for EPeen waggling, but you can't change human nature. Look at this thread. Every argument seems to boil down to "he's cutting ahead of me and I'm good!" There is no good in MMOs, just a walking pile of stats.
Now lets go to the second portion of your arguement while I think you messed up your premise, I got the idea. So fine, the reward is to get a medal. You can do so by running 10 laps, or paying $1. You asked why anyone would ever run the 10 laps. If I liked to run, I'd happily run instead of paying. I like to run, why would I pay to get something I would do for fun anyway? Lets expand that to a triathalon.
Each stage is 1 medal:
Running, biking and swimming.
I really hate running, but I want to participate. I can opt out of the running for $1 and that gets me to the biking and swiming part. Sure, I'll happily pay that and then move to the parts I enjoy. You have the same choice as me and can do it all, or perhaps Run and Swim. In the end, we all get our three medals so everyone goes home happy.
If you like the content/game you won't pay unless you have a good reason.
To be a player of a game you must actually play it.
THIS!
This is where I was heading in this thread. RMT doesn't affect games where you are playing because you enjoy the game. Lets use a slightly more real world example using Disney, who I think gets entertainment.
When you are at Disney World, you can usually skip a line by using a fastpass. You can only have one fast pass at a time, but if you plan ahead, it's completely possible to go through the park without waiting in a single line. Disney gets that people hate lines. Yet, they also know that some people are going to end up in them. What do they do? On their newer attractions they put some amazing things to see in the line.
What happened? Well I met many people who actually don't use the fast pass because they want to see the line. Even though they could skip the wait to get to the attraction they still waited. Why? Well the wait was fun and neat to see.
Current MMOs don't get it. They know we need things to do, yet they have problems giving us things we want to do. Does anyone really want to kill 10 snipes? No, not really. Until they do get it, I fully support RMT in games to let people bypass the drugery, because that's all it is. No skill whack a mole courier type play... or I can do as I am now, and not play any of them.
People wouldn't resent RMT if the content they were playing was actually fun. As it is now, it's viewed as cutting in line as opposed to missing out on some cool stuff.
Yet you guys continue to pay for the crap that you feel is like what you are describing. Worse, you guys will still play the game and then buy virtual garbage from the developer of the game you feel is a poorly designed game. That's nuts. You are the ones keeping games without these timesinks away. Because YOU are the ones voting with your wallet by buying the games. I say if you feel the need to buy your way through a game, then you are playing the wrong game.