Look, I'd accept it better if you came out and said what bugged you about RMT, "people can get ahead of me without doing the same work I had to do."
You might accept it better. It might be easier for you to understand. But that's no what bugs me about RMT.
I want a game that gives ME a challenge. Like kill 1000 mobs. I like lots of other things. I'd like to group while I'm killing thnose mobs, I'd like nice animations, etc., etc.
But if you put in a game mechanic that is kill 1,000 mobs, OR pay one dollar and kill 500 mobs, you've ruined the challenge and ruined the game. FOR ME, NOTHING TO DO WITH COMPETING WITH YOU.
Here's the hard part. It's really, really hard, but try to wrap your mind around it. Now, if YOU can buy your way out of the challenge, so can I.
How are you going to structure the game so it's challenging for me, but you can still buy your way to the easy route? You cannot. So, to make it easy for you, it is necessary to ruin the game for me.
It seems like you just agreed with him that your concern is that people can get ahead of you without doing the same work you do. Either that or you're saying that you don't like RMT because you, personally, will buy your way through the game if that option is there and it reduces the challenge of the game. The latter doesn't make much sense, though. People buy items because it enhances the fun for them, so if buying items reduces the fun for you, why would you do it?
WTF People buy items cause its fun? Where the hell does anyone think its fun swiping thier credit card for a pixel? Are these causals that brain dead ? Fun give me a break its plain naive to think that buying items with RL money enhances fun no that makes them complete dolts....that and ruin the game for everyone else..
Exactly these RMT shops prey on people with this mentality. If these people were smart that think buying virtual pixels with their credit card is fun, they would instead vote no on games with thier wallet that they feel the need to do this in. What they should be doing is playing games that are fun for them. If a game is fun you will not want to put it down. You will be in the game playing it, not on a website purchasing digital garbage to help you skip the game itself.
WTF People buy items cause its fun? Where the hell does anyone think its fun swiping thier credit card for a pixel? Are these causals that brain dead ? Fun give me a break its plain naive to think that buying items with RL money enhances fun no that makes them complete dolts....that and ruin the game for everyone else..
This coming from the person that finds purchased pixels so important that he has put a 2.5 Meg animated GIF in his post that was created solely for the purpose of expressing his concern for how trading cards devalue his pixels.
Buying items enhances fun? Hell, yeah! A Canadian friend of mine started playing Combat Arms so I bought him a hat for his character with a Canadian flag on it. Every now and then I dump a few bucks in the SOE Marketplace for my Wife so she can buy more weird crap for her character and its house. BTW, she's got a pretty badass looking Ranger suit on that mouse rogue of hers. And if it's 'brain dead' for me to spend $5 on a new bamboo fishing pole for my Florensia character, then such is life. It amuses me and costs next to nothing for said amusement.
But that aside, you might want to drop the argument about 'swiping a credit card for pixels' because you're either a hypocrite or you've never played a subscription MMO.
Signed,
The complete dolt with cool hats on all his F2P characters
Cheers!
If you were smart you wouldn't support P2P games with items shops in them. You know what? In the past your wife would have had that virtual gear in game but since they added an item shop "to enhance" gameplay it will be put there instead. Item shops do affect the game for everyone. Why would the devs give out the same amount of content for the included sub price as they did in the past when they have a shiny little item shop to put a lot of the items in? If people would think they would remember a time when SOE put out two expansion packs a year but now are putting out maybe one a year with even worse content than one of the two in the past. They could have been putting that "fluff" items to be obtained in game but they were too busy making that item shop to do that.
If a game is fun you will not want to put it down. You will be in the game playing it, not on a website purchasing digital garbage to help you skip the game itself.
This makes the erroneous assumption that a game has to be either 100% fun or 0% fun. What if part of the game is fun and people are paying to skip the other half?
RMT may not be fair but it is an error to argue that it does not make sense.
If a game is fun you will not want to put it down. You will be in the game playing it, not on a website purchasing digital garbage to help you skip the game itself.
This makes the erroneous assumption that a game has to be either 100% fun or 0% fun. What if part of the game is fun and people are paying to skip the other half?
RMT may not be fair but it is an error to argue that it does not make sense.
Poorly designed game or the person that bought the game is playing the wrong game for them. Move along to a game that is fun all the way through. I believe it does not make sense. Why pay a developer extra money because parts of their game is unfun? These are games that are meant to be played for fun. If something is so unfun that you feel the need to swipe a credit card to bypass it, it's time to move along.
Poorly designed game or the person that bought the game is playing the wrong game for them. Move along to a game that is fun all the way through. I believe it does not make sense. Why pay a developer extra money because parts of their game is unfun? These are games that are meant to be played for fun. If something is so unfun that you feel the need to swipe a credit card to bypass it, it's time to move along.
Wait... if the game is designed around buying items to enhance the fun and the player finds it fun to buy the items....
...then how is that the wrong game for that person?
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Poorly designed game or the person that bought the game is playing the wrong game for them. Move along to a game that is fun all the way through. I believe it does not make sense. Why pay a developer extra money because parts of their game is unfun? These are games that are meant to be played for fun. If something is so unfun that you feel the need to swipe a credit card to bypass it, it's time to move along.
Wait... if the game is designed around buying items to enhance the fun and the player finds it fun to buy the items....
...then how is that the wrong game for that person?
I am speaking of P2P games trying to force item shops on people. I wasn't speaking of the casino games/ real life money games that F2P games are. I have always avoided them anyhow.
Poorly designed game or the person that bought the game is playing the wrong game for them. Move along to a game that is fun all the way through. I believe it does not make sense. Why pay a developer extra money because parts of their game is unfun? These are games that are meant to be played for fun. If something is so unfun that you feel the need to swipe a credit card to bypass it, it's time to move along.
Have you never played a game merely to be with your friends? Not every game is friendly enough to let you play with people higher than you.
Do you PvP? Some people like the PvP aspect of a game and have no desire to PvE, ever.
Perhaps you like to craft, you don't want to level or grind, but just make things and socialize.
In all three of these cases, those people would likely happily pay to bypass content they didn't like to experience the content they did like. I highly doubt there is any game that is fun all the way through. Every game has level ranges that are abysmal and quest series that are assinine. For you, your statement might be correct, but you really shouldn't project your playstyle on everyone.
That doesn't really surprise me. We are on a site dedicated to MMOs. The people that are reading and posting here are some of your more ardent players who have the most emotionally involved in the subject matter. To many of them, acomplishing something in an MMO is more than just a measure of how much time they have spent, it's a feeling of acomplishment and skill that doesn't come as easily in real life.
There is a reason that the carrort and stick game design has worked so well. We as a populance are easily duped with ever increasing numbers often forgetting why we play the game in the first place. We mistake grind for content and seem to be happy to continue to pay for it. We worry that someone else might be getting their numbers faster, or have better numbers, that we can't get.
So when companies offer a RMT short cut, in invalidates the reason that your most devout fans are playing for. To be better than the next guy.
I would expect that a survey done inside the game itself would lend itself to much different numbers as the casual players are less likely to be upset that someone has passed them up. Now how much it would change, I don't know. I really depends on how competitive the casual player sees their MMO.
That doesn't really surprise me. We are on a site dedicated to MMOs.
...with tons of advertisers for RMT games, at least one columnist who gets a boner every time the word is mentioned, and many users willing to defend the concept of RMT in threads like this one.
The people that are reading and posting here are some of your more ardent players who have the most emotionally involved in the subject matter.
Which is exactly why I am surprised at the results. This site is actually RMT friendly, and even here there is a massive backlash against it.
I would expect that a survey done inside the game itself would lend itself to much different numbers as the casual players are less likely to be upset that someone has passed them up. Now how much it would change, I don't know. I really depends on how competitive the casual player sees their MMO.
The common theme you can see in these threads from the anti-RMT people is the concept of fairness...part of the appeal of an MMO is that the playing field is level, and RMT would undermine that if it altered game balance. I believe that this would be common among the "general population" of MMO players as well as the people who come to this site. Most people percieve having the ability to buy your way up the food chain as unfair. And unfair games are less appealing.
rmt on paper is a nice idea if it was closer to reality ,but the fact is its not a system like guild wars is better you buy the game you get the option to get build maker you buy it etc its perfect but rmt like store lol sell a horse from 11 to 25 dollars ,want to upgrade gear in say rom the sky is the limit why its not garanted the upgrade will work its avail to t 20 lol the most we saw is t7 t8 why
lol for those who know since its so random its everything like playing poker you can try to do your thing for 2000 dollars worth of diamond to buy all you need and it wont work ,the dude next to you spent 20 dollars and it worked
people dont mind rmt lol they buy mount everyday (permanent mount) they even color them lol
but everytime a f2p game add the random factor to squeeze in more money they just killed their game
because whatever you do as a player even a rich guy gearing random , will make the lucky one own not the best. the lucky that could upgrade to t 20 without spending 100k real money
rmt wont work.company always get gready and die ,we got 10$ maybe we can get 40$ lol.
espacially not a lot of f2p game are good enough to spend the monthly fee i was paying in wow
most player dont mind paying check september they ll buy at various store when aion come out
why the rule are fairly fixed the random factor isnt there ,compared to rmt games
sell the same stuff but remoove random i see some guys gear go from say t4 to t3 lolat least if it wasnt downgraded maybe
it can even downgrade lol so rmt is good for mount bling bling but thats it dont count on rmt to upgrade all your gear to say t20 you ll bankrup lol
random upgrade for gear is the worst thing there is
The common theme you can see in these threads from the anti-RMT people is the concept of fairness...part of the appeal of an MMO is that the playing field is level, and RMT would undermine that if it altered game balance. I believe that this would be common among the "general population" of MMO players as well as the people who come to this site. Most people percieve having the ability to buy your way up the food chain as unfair.
Which brings us back to the number of people playing F2P vs the number playing P2P which, if I remember correctly, we were still waiting for you to get back to us with your numbers.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
The common theme you can see in these threads from the anti-RMT people is the concept of fairness...part of the appeal of an MMO is that the playing field is level, and RMT would undermine that if it altered game balance. I believe that this would be common among the "general population" of MMO players as well as the people who come to this site. Most people percieve having the ability to buy your way up the food chain as unfair. And unfair games are less appealing.
Oh I get why people are upset. Like any argument on an MMO it's a case of the have's vs. the have nots. I just am waiting for people to realize that time is really just as unfair as RMT. Both time and money are commodities that most of us have in limited quantities. The hypocracy of trying to say otherwise is kind of amusing.
If we are competing and you have had 100 hours to play whack a mole and I have only had 10 hours to do so, which of us is going to be better? Sure I can put another 90 hours in, but by that time you have put in 1000 hours. Is that fair? No. Is it something that I let bug me, no. That's not why you play a MMO in my opinion. However, RMT is just as unfair, it just opens the playing field to more people and allows them to leverage the comodity that they are in short supply.
So while the time rich player uses more resources, demands more content, and is a worse value to the game, the RMT player is a benefit to the devs, uses less content and places additional funds into the coffer.
Regardless of what I think, I understand why many of the players here don't like it. There are plenty of blinders that people use to justify their behavior and I am sure that most people won't agree that RMT is no less fair than P2P models.
I'm ok with RMT as long as it's cosmetic stuff or services like character transfer etc... Everything else I really do not like.
I play MMORPGs to get away from the real world. I love the stories, I like my avatar, I like the fact that my persona that I project onto that avatar effects the community and in essence the game world. Above everything I have been put onto an even playing field as everyone else which in turn allows me to be things I may not be able to be in the real world. I think that it's even because if someone does this certain quest and gets a reward, I can do the same quest and get the same reward albeit exp, currency, items etc... The outside world does not truly effect the game at all. Money does/should not effect this aspect of the game. The only real determining factor on when I get a level up or finish a quest or anything is the amount of time I put into it. And here we are, the real core of the issue concerning RMT. Should someone have the right to spend cash to gain ground, catch up, or dare I say become superior to someone else? Thinking about it, it depends on the game itself. If the game was made with a cash shop in mind, and only the best stuff can be bought then fine so be it. That's the rules of that game so spend to win. If it has more of the rules like WoW then heck no. Those are definitely not the rules and should be kicked out for breaking them.
You are probably thinking, what does this have to do with time right? =P
Well the fact of the matter is that we all have the same amount of time in a day. No one has a 55 hour day and it's up to us to utilize our time how we see fit. I see a lot of times people justify breaking the rules of the game by buying gold (not here necessarily) with the fact that they do not have the time to play the game. In actuality you do, you just did something else while your friend, foe, spouse whoever was playing and they got ahead. They do not have more time, they used it differently. Now this is where I have big issues. Not only have these people broken the clearly stated rules of the game but they have also trivialized the time by putting a money value to it. I get enough of that in real life and now you have to bring it into the dang game.... I guess they feel entitled this since they have the money and they feel that their time was more important. Trivializing the game just because some people have more time allocated for gaming than you do.
Whats the point in playing monopoly and starting with the same amount of play money and starting on go, if I can pass a real 5 to the banker to give me all the good property? Trivializing the whole game and making it only about the real world and not the game.
I have never been "l33t", I have barely ever raided. Heck I suck at PVP in general as well lol. I do not think it's unfair that someone has the "blazing sword of extreme awesomeness" that looks 3 times the size if their avatars body and can easily 3 hit someone. I also do not think it's unfair that my friends have gained a 20 level lead on me. I feel this way because I know if I put the same time into the game I will be where they are now (more or less) and If I put more time in I'll catch up eventually. I'm glad I play this way because now I do get a slight sense of accomplishment and I have met and interacted with new people playing my own little story.
This is just how I feel about the whole matter. I know that some people do not feel or play the same way. That's fine I suppose, I just wanted to voice my thoughts on the matter. You can agree or disagree, thats fine as well but it won't change my mind =P.
I do have one question though for the people who want RMT for the reason I said above.
Did you gain anything while everyone else was playing the game?
TL;DR
I feel it's fair that someone has gotten ahead of me because they have probably put more time into the game than I have. I feel it's unfair that someone trivializes someone else's time using money to catch up though.
If you were smart you wouldn't support P2P games with items shops in them. You know what? In the past your wife would have had that virtual gear in game but since they added an item shop "to enhance" gameplay it will be put there instead. Item shops do affect the game for everyone. Why would the devs give out the same amount of content for the included sub price as they did in the past when they have a shiny little item shop to put a lot of the items in? If people would think they would remember a time when SOE put out two expansion packs a year but now are putting out maybe one a year with even worse content than one of the two in the past. They could have been putting that "fluff" items to be obtained in game but they were too busy making that item shop to do that.
Very ugly way of double barrelled discussion, adding an insult to the ugly way of speech.
He is either smart and support you, or disagree with you and is not smart. So either way he is wrong and you are right. Qombi, you are about the least ethical person on earth, calling people unsmart while putting up a double barrel.
Qombi, if you are smart you should shut up, you are a liar.
Poorly designed game or the person that bought the game is playing the wrong game for them. Move along to a game that is fun all the way through. I believe it does not make sense. Why pay a developer extra money because parts of their game is unfun? These are games that are meant to be played for fun. If something is so unfun that you feel the need to swipe a credit card to bypass it, it's time to move along.
Wait... if the game is designed around buying items to enhance the fun and the player finds it fun to buy the items....
...then how is that the wrong game for that person?
I am speaking of P2P games trying to force item shops on people. I wasn't speaking of the casino games/ real life money games that F2P games are. I have always avoided them anyhow.
whatever game it is Lynx is right.
He who has the money and willing to spend it can do it so long as it is within the brackets of law. Jealousy from your QQs only shows "sour grape" tears. If you do not want to pay, go play something else.
Thousands of people pay money online to change the look of their icons in chatrooms. Thousands of people pay thousands of dollars to download odd sound waves and songs for their mobiles. Thousands ... . What do I mean to say?
For all those crusaders who keeps raising the banner of fairness, may I ask
(1) Whose standard of fairness is fair, yours or mine?
(2) Why is fairness the standard for judging games, do you play for fairness, or fun?
(3) Why do you need me to play in your perceived standard of fairness, what if I want to play a game in the way I want?
You can refuse to play a game you do not like, on any ground. You can tell me why you do not like it. That is it. Stop there. Pushing further, as if your idea is the truth and binding, and we should all rally behind you, is pathetic dilusive self grandeur. Enough people already tells you they do not care about your views. Not that you are wrong, but that your views stops in front of your monitor, it does not reach out to them.
For all those crusaders who keeps raising the banner of fairness, may I ask (1) Whose standard of fairness is fair, yours or mine? (2) Why is fairness the standard for judging games, do you play for fairness, or fun? (3) Why do you need me to play in your perceived standard of fairness, what if I want to play a game in the way I want? You can refuse to play a game you do not like, on any ground. You can tell me why you do not like it. That is it. Stop there. Pushing further, as if your idea is the truth and binding, and we should all rally behind you, is pathetic dilusive self grandeur. Enough people already tells you they do not care about your views. Not that you are wrong, but that your views stops in front of your monitor, it does not reach out to them. Simply put, your argument is not convincing.
You seem to talk about fairness and fun as if they are mutually exclusive. I don't think they are. I think they go together.
For example, is it fair in a hockey game if one goalie is allowed to wear oversized pads? No, it's not. Why not? Because his or her team will have an advantage over the opposing team. Their opponents are less likely to score. It's not fair because it's not a level playing field. How much fun do you think it would be for the goalie and team with the regular sized pads? Probably not nearly as fun as it would be for the team with the advantage.
How does this relate to RMT? In some games, they'll sell oversized pads (performance enhancing loot or buffs) through their item shop. If you pay the extra cash, you get an advantage. It's no longer a level playing field. Oh you can level it up if you want, but then you have to pay more money. Now the developer can toy with people and bleed them dry in a virtual arms race. Is that fun? Maybe for the developer. It's less likely to be fun for the gamers who have fallen behind on the virtual loot, or for all of the gamers sucked into the arms race when they inevitably get the Visa bill.
This of course is only relevant if the RMT items are performance enhancing. I can think of games that have this, and I avoid them for this reason. On the other hand, I've played and enjoyed games that offered RMT items that were not in any way performance enhancing. The RMT content is entirely optional. It's more about fashion and fun than remaining competitive.
That kind of RMT does not create imbalances in the game. It also does not engineer and exploit those imbalances to fleece gamers.
Well the fact of the matter is that we all have the same amount of time in a day. No one has a 55 hour day and it's up to us to utilize our time how we see fit. I see a lot of times people justify breaking the rules of the game by buying gold (not here necessarily) with the fact that they do not have the time to play the game. In actuality you do, you just did something else while your friend, foe, spouse whoever was playing and they got ahead. They do not have more time, they used it differently. Now this is where I have big issues. Not only have these people broken the clearly stated rules of the game but they have also trivialized the time by putting a money value to it. I get enough of that in real life and now you have to bring it into the dang game.... I guess they feel entitled this since they have the money and they feel that their time was more important. Trivializing the game just because some people have more time allocated for gaming than you do. <snip> I also do not think it's unfair that my friends have gained a 20 level lead on me. I feel this way because I know if I put the same time into the game I will be where they are now (more or less) and If I put more time in I'll catch up eventually. I do have one question though for the people who want RMT for the reason I said above. Did you gain anything while everyone else was playing the game?
I would disagree on the point of we all have the same time in a day and it's how we choose to spend it. I don't know where you are in life, but at least to me, the older you get, the more your time is spoken. When I was in high school, I had most evenings free, weekends, and all summer. When I was in college, there was tons of time unless it was near exams. When I got married, I also had a job to pay for my house along with spending time with my wife. As my responsibility grew with children, their needs intruded on the time that I had.
Yes, we all have 24 hours in a day. However, the amount of disposable time that we recieve differs vastly. This is no different than each of us having differing amounts of cash to spend on our entertainment. I personally think it's unfair that you can play for 8 hours a day while I have other responsibilities that have to be met if my family is going to have a roof over their head and food on the table. I don't choose to work over play, I have to work over play.
Frankly those people trivialize anything that I will ever do and their limitless time creates an unfair gulf that I can not catch up. Because for how ever many hours I put in, they will be putting in 4x those hours.
You can argue that people have the same ability to earn money and choose to play games instead. Both time and money are limited comodoties for most people. True, there is less varriance in time and the caps are much harder, but in practice, both are completely limited, and both affect your game experience.
For example, is it fair in a hockey game if one goalie is allowed to wear oversized pads? No, it's not. Why not? Because his or her team will have an advantage over the opposing team. Their opponents are less likely to score. It's not fair because it's not a level playing field. How much fun do you think it would be for the goalie and team with the regular sized pads? Probably not nearly as fun as it would be for the team with the advantage. How does this relate to RMT? In some games, they'll sell oversized pads (performance enhancing loot or buffs) through their item shop. If you pay the extra cash, you get an advantage. It's no longer a level playing field. Oh you can level it up if you want, but then you have to pay more money. Now the developer can toy with people and bleed them dry in a virtual arms race. Is that fun? Maybe for the developer. It's less likely to be fun for the gamers who have fallen behind on the virtual loot, or for all of the gamers sucked into the arms race when they inevitably get the Visa bill.
Sure, buying performance items creates imbalance, we don't all have the same amount of money to spend. However, if the other hockey team is allowed to play an extra 15 minutes after the first, the game is no less fair. Sure you can play hard for the same three periods, but no matter what you do, they get the extra 15 minutes. How fair is that?
I'm ok with RMT as long as it's cosmetic stuff or services like character transfer etc... Everything else I really do not like. I play MMORPGs to get away from the real world. I love the stories, I like my avatar, I like the fact that my persona that I project onto that avatar effects the community and in essence the game world. Above everything I have been put onto an even playing field as everyone else which in turn allows me to be things I may not be able to be in the real world. I think that it's even because if someone does this certain quest and gets a reward, I can do the same quest and get the same reward albeit exp, currency, items etc... The outside world does not truly effect the game at all. Money does/should not effect this aspect of the game. The only real determining factor on when I get a level up or finish a quest or anything is the amount of time I put into it. And here we are, the real core of the issue concerning RMT. Should someone have the right to spend cash to gain ground, catch up, or dare I say become superior to someone else? Thinking about it, it depends on the game itself. If the game was made with a cash shop in mind, and only the best stuff can be bought then fine so be it. That's the rules of that game so spend to win. If it has more of the rules like WoW then heck no. Those are definitely not the rules and should be kicked out for breaking them. You are probably thinking, what does this have to do with time right? =P Well the fact of the matter is that we all have the same amount of time in a day. No one has a 55 hour day and it's up to us to utilize our time how we see fit. I see a lot of times people justify breaking the rules of the game by buying gold (not here necessarily) with the fact that they do not have the time to play the game. In actuality you do, you just did something else while your friend, foe, spouse whoever was playing and they got ahead. They do not have more time, they used it differently. Now this is where I have big issues. Not only have these people broken the clearly stated rules of the game but they have also trivialized the time by putting a money value to it. I get enough of that in real life and now you have to bring it into the dang game.... I guess they feel entitled this since they have the money and they feel that their time was more important. Trivializing the game just because some people have more time allocated for gaming than you do. Whats the point in playing monopoly and starting with the same amount of play money and starting on go, if I can pass a real 5 to the banker to give me all the good property? Trivializing the whole game and making it only about the real world and not the game. I have never been "l33t", I have barely ever raided. Heck I suck at PVP in general as well lol. I do not think it's unfair that someone has the "blazing sword of extreme awesomeness" that looks 3 times the size if their avatars body and can easily 3 hit someone. I also do not think it's unfair that my friends have gained a 20 level lead on me. I feel this way because I know if I put the same time into the game I will be where they are now (more or less) and If I put more time in I'll catch up eventually. I'm glad I play this way because now I do get a slight sense of accomplishment and I have met and interacted with new people playing my own little story. This is just how I feel about the whole matter. I know that some people do not feel or play the same way. That's fine I suppose, I just wanted to voice my thoughts on the matter. You can agree or disagree, thats fine as well but it won't change my mind =P. I do have one question though for the people who want RMT for the reason I said above. Did you gain anything while everyone else was playing the game? TL;DR I feel it's fair that someone has gotten ahead of me because they have probably put more time into the game than I have. I feel it's unfair that someone trivializes someone else's time using money to catch up though.
Poorly designed game or the person that bought the game is playing the wrong game for them. Move along to a game that is fun all the way through. I believe it does not make sense. Why pay a developer extra money because parts of their game is unfun? These are games that are meant to be played for fun. If something is so unfun that you feel the need to swipe a credit card to bypass it, it's time to move along.
Wait... if the game is designed around buying items to enhance the fun and the player finds it fun to buy the items....
...then how is that the wrong game for that person?
I am speaking of P2P games trying to force item shops on people. I wasn't speaking of the casino games/ real life money games that F2P games are. I have always avoided them anyhow.
whatever game it is Lynx is right.
He who has the money and willing to spend it can do it so long as it is within the brackets of law. Jealousy from your QQs only shows "sour grape" tears. If you do not want to pay, go play something else.
Thousands of people pay money online to change the look of their icons in chatrooms. Thousands of people pay thousands of dollars to download odd sound waves and songs for their mobiles. Thousands ... . What do I mean to say?
NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
You are taking this too personal. I am not angry. If you think this is about jealousy then you I am afraid have missed the whole reason people play games. The fact is you are arguing for RMT because of jealousy of others. I myself find RMT a disgusting perversion on rpg gaming because it goes against what gaming is. Games are meant to be enjoyed by playing them. Swiping a credit card for items isn't playing a game. If a game is good then you enjoy being in the world playing it. If a game is bad you do not. Buying items with a credit card can never buy you what others get from playing the game and that is the experience of playing the game. That is ultimately what you are paying for the experience of playing the game.
If it was not then it wouldn't be called a game. Buying items online doesn't equal a game or game content. That is a lazy way for a developer to make money. Making fun content to be played is what a game is. All the things you mention below are not classified as games. Unlike you I do just that, if I find a game unfun I quit it. I no longer support them with my money. A game adds an item shop that I am playing, I quit. I no longer want the product. If you were smart you would see that if a game design isn't for you then you move to one that is fun and for you. Giving developers money for virtual pixels to bypass their game content isn't the answer. The answer would be to find that game that you find fun without having to bypass the content.
Well the fact of the matter is that we all have the same amount of time in a day. No one has a 55 hour day and it's up to us to utilize our time how we see fit. I see a lot of times people justify breaking the rules of the game by buying gold (not here necessarily) with the fact that they do not have the time to play the game. In actuality you do, you just did something else while your friend, foe, spouse whoever was playing and they got ahead. They do not have more time, they used it differently. Now this is where I have big issues. Not only have these people broken the clearly stated rules of the game but they have also trivialized the time by putting a money value to it. I get enough of that in real life and now you have to bring it into the dang game.... I guess they feel entitled this since they have the money and they feel that their time was more important. Trivializing the game just because some people have more time allocated for gaming than you do. <snip> I also do not think it's unfair that my friends have gained a 20 level lead on me. I feel this way because I know if I put the same time into the game I will be where they are now (more or less) and If I put more time in I'll catch up eventually. I do have one question though for the people who want RMT for the reason I said above. Did you gain anything while everyone else was playing the game?
I would disagree on the point of we all have the same time in a day and it's how we choose to spend it. I don't know where you are in life, but at least to me, the older you get, the more your time is spoken. When I was in high school, I had most evenings free, weekends, and all summer. When I was in college, there was tons of time unless it was near exams. When I got married, I also had a job to pay for my house along with spending time with my wife. As my responsibility grew with children, their needs intruded on the time that I had.
Yes, we all have 24 hours in a day. However, the amount of disposable time that we recieve differs vastly. This is no different than each of us having differing amounts of cash to spend on our entertainment. I personally think it's unfair that you can play for 8 hours a day while I have other responsibilities that have to be met if my family is going to have a roof over their head and food on the table. I don't choose to work over play, I have to work over play.
Frankly those people trivialize anything that I will ever do and their limitless time creates an unfair gulf that I can not catch up. Because for how ever many hours I put in, they will be putting in 4x those hours.
You can argue that people have the same ability to earn money and choose to play games instead. Both time and money are limited comodoties for most people. True, there is less varriance in time and the caps are much harder, but in practice, both are completely limited, and both affect your game experience.
It still does not refute my point. It's all choices. You chose to get married and have children..... some people did not. Some work different hours of the day, some work varying hours, some have 2 jobs! Some are punk kids that do not know any better and some are just elitist jerks. Does that make it ok to trivialize everyone else game with money? All because they have more time to actually play game than you. Also I still think it's fair still because if you did the exact same things in the same amount of time that the other people did you get the exact same rewards. It becomes a matter of when and not if. Which leads me to believe that you want to shortcut the game in order to get it all now. Like my monopoly analogy. You do not want to really play, you want to be the best now.
Honestly, you want to throw other players to the wind just because they can play more? Yes they play more, yes they are ahead yes they probably do not have as much responsibility than you, but for goodness sake they played the game more than you, why shouldn't they be ahead?
Let me give you another example although a little extreme. You and your co worker put in a regular day but your coworker decides he is going to work extra and you go home to do whatever, or you go pay bills or something. 2 weeks go by and you co worker comments on how much in overtime he made. Would you go to you boss and try to leverage a way of getting extra pay like your co worker? He did more time than you, he deserves his extra pay. He may have had less responsibility therefore more time to stay at work but does that entitle you to same amount of pay as him even though he may not have a wife and kids to provide for and you do?
I know I know, we are talking about a game but should we "bend the rules" just because it is?
Now, I never said that all RMT should die. I realise people feel the same as you and they should be able to spend to make up for time because that's fun for them i suppose. I hate the people that buy gold in games not set up for that kind of play. Like I said they are breaking the rules and trivializing time put in. If it's a game like RoM then go on a spending spree, I do not care because i wont be playing anyways.
Does that make it ok to trivialize everyone else game with money? All because they have more time to actually play game than you. Also I still think it's fair still because if you did the exact same things in the same amount of time that the other people did you get the exact same rewards. It becomes a matter of when and not if. Which leads me to believe that you want to shortcut the game in order to get it all now. Like my monopoly analogy. You do not want to really play, you want to be the best now. Honestly, you want to throw other players to the wind just because they can play more? Yes they play more, yes they are ahead yes they probably do not have as much responsibility than you, but for goodness sake they played the game more than you, why shouldn't they be ahead? Let me give you another example although a little extreme. You and your co worker put in a regular day but your coworker decides he is going to work extra and you go home to do whatever, or you go pay bills or something. 2 weeks go by and you co worker comments on how much in overtime he made. Would you go to you boss and try to leverage a way of getting extra pay like your co worker? He did more time than you, he deserves his extra pay. He may have had less responsibility therefore more time to stay at work but does that entitle you to same amount of pay as him even though he may not have a wife and kids to provide for and you do? I know I know, we are talking about a game but should we "bend the rules" just because it is? Now, I never said that all RMT should die. I realise people feel the same as you and they should be able to spend to make up for time because that's fun for them i suppose. I hate the people that buy gold in games not set up for that kind of play. Like I said they are breaking the rules and trivializing time put in. If it's a game like RoM then go on a spending spree, I do not care because i wont be playing anyways.
It makes it no more so than for anyone else to trivialize my experience with time. All because they have more time to play. Yes there are parts in games that I would have happily shortcut. There are missions, levels, and other tasks that are maddeningly boring. Even in games I have loved, when I alted there were times I really didn't want to grind through the same content for the tenth time. If I'm paying to shortcut something, I obviously want to play whatever is past what I am bypassing. Obviously I love the game enough to drop cash into it to play the parts I want.
So going back to the point, if the arguement against RMT is a sense of fair play, then make sure that you realize that you are not making the game more fair, just choosing which bias you want to place.
As for your example, no I would not expect to be paid the same as him. However, I do not pay my job to come work there. They pay me. I do pay to play games for entertainment. I expect them to be fun and if I need to pay a little more to make my experience more fun, I have to weigh that purchase like I do the $15 a month that I either already spend, or would spend. If it's a game I've played for a while, I might very well pay something to make my time there less to get to parts of the game I enjoy more.
So yes, we should bend the rules. You get to spend all the time you want getting your goodies. In a good RMT I don't take away your loot. You earned it and should have the same satisfaction whether I buy my loot, earn my loot, or don't have it. You do what's fun with your entertainment and I do the same. When we meet in the game, you can tell me how you earned your loot and I'll probably congratulate you. However, I'll be able to play the same game as you and will probably be happier for it.
Originally posted by bstripp It makes it no more so than for anyone else to trivialize my experience with time. All because they have more time to play. Yes there are parts in games that I would have happily shortcut. There are missions, levels, and other tasks that are maddeningly boring. Even in games I have loved, when I alted there were times I really didn't want to grind through the same content for the tenth time. If I'm paying to shortcut something, I obviously want to play whatever is past what I am bypassing. Obviously I love the game enough to drop cash into it to play the parts I want. So going back to the point, if the arguement against RMT is a sense of fair play, then make sure that you realize that you are not making the game more fair, just choosing which bias you want to place. As for your example, no I would not expect to be paid the same as him. However, I do not pay my job to come work there. They pay me. I do pay to play games for entertainment. I expect them to be fun and if I need to pay a little more to make my experience more fun, I have to weigh that purchase like I do the $15 a month that I either already spend, or would spend. If it's a game I've played for a while, I might very well pay something to make my time there less to get to parts of the game I enjoy more. So yes, we should bend the rules. You get to spend all the time you want getting your goodies. In a good RMT I don't take away your loot. You earned it and should have the same satisfaction whether I buy my loot, earn my loot, or don't have it. You do what's fun with your entertainment and I do the same. When we meet in the game, you can tell me how you earned your loot and I'll probably congratulate you. However, I'll be able to play the same game as you and will probably be happier for it.
You are right, I am just as bias as everyone else. You feel your money is more important than my time, and I feel my time is more important than your money. There I said it! =P
Let me put the trivialization of time aside because it is bias and opinion.
I'm not on a mission to change your mind but to tell you my perspective. Like I said before though. I do not like those RMT heavy games but I think they should exist for people like you. I have problems when people try to pull that crap in games that it is not meant for. If the rules state that you cannot do something that means you cannot do that something. If you do you are a cheater. No if ands or buts, you are a cheater. There is no justification for it. So logically, if you break the rules, and become a cheater, did you play the game fair? I do not care for what ever reason. Did you play fair?
Do you honestly expect me to pretend the game is fair when you have broken the stated rules?
For the simple fact you have extra money you are willing to burn, the rules do not apply to you anymore?
If you truly feel this way then, fine.... we will just have to agree to disagree.
Comments
You might accept it better. It might be easier for you to understand. But that's no what bugs me about RMT.
I want a game that gives ME a challenge. Like kill 1000 mobs. I like lots of other things. I'd like to group while I'm killing thnose mobs, I'd like nice animations, etc., etc.
But if you put in a game mechanic that is kill 1,000 mobs, OR pay one dollar and kill 500 mobs, you've ruined the challenge and ruined the game. FOR ME, NOTHING TO DO WITH COMPETING WITH YOU.
Here's the hard part. It's really, really hard, but try to wrap your mind around it. Now, if YOU can buy your way out of the challenge, so can I.
How are you going to structure the game so it's challenging for me, but you can still buy your way to the easy route? You cannot. So, to make it easy for you, it is necessary to ruin the game for me.
It seems like you just agreed with him that your concern is that people can get ahead of you without doing the same work you do. Either that or you're saying that you don't like RMT because you, personally, will buy your way through the game if that option is there and it reduces the challenge of the game. The latter doesn't make much sense, though. People buy items because it enhances the fun for them, so if buying items reduces the fun for you, why would you do it?
WTF People buy items cause its fun? Where the hell does anyone think its fun swiping thier credit card for a pixel? Are these causals that brain dead ? Fun give me a break its plain naive to think that buying items with RL money enhances fun no that makes them complete dolts....that and ruin the game for everyone else..
Exactly these RMT shops prey on people with this mentality. If these people were smart that think buying virtual pixels with their credit card is fun, they would instead vote no on games with thier wallet that they feel the need to do this in. What they should be doing is playing games that are fun for them. If a game is fun you will not want to put it down. You will be in the game playing it, not on a website purchasing digital garbage to help you skip the game itself.
This coming from the person that finds purchased pixels so important that he has put a 2.5 Meg animated GIF in his post that was created solely for the purpose of expressing his concern for how trading cards devalue his pixels.
Buying items enhances fun? Hell, yeah! A Canadian friend of mine started playing Combat Arms so I bought him a hat for his character with a Canadian flag on it. Every now and then I dump a few bucks in the SOE Marketplace for my Wife so she can buy more weird crap for her character and its house. BTW, she's got a pretty badass looking Ranger suit on that mouse rogue of hers. And if it's 'brain dead' for me to spend $5 on a new bamboo fishing pole for my Florensia character, then such is life. It amuses me and costs next to nothing for said amusement.
But that aside, you might want to drop the argument about 'swiping a credit card for pixels' because you're either a hypocrite or you've never played a subscription MMO.
Signed,
The complete dolt with cool hats on all his F2P characters
Cheers!
If you were smart you wouldn't support P2P games with items shops in them. You know what? In the past your wife would have had that virtual gear in game but since they added an item shop "to enhance" gameplay it will be put there instead. Item shops do affect the game for everyone. Why would the devs give out the same amount of content for the included sub price as they did in the past when they have a shiny little item shop to put a lot of the items in? If people would think they would remember a time when SOE put out two expansion packs a year but now are putting out maybe one a year with even worse content than one of the two in the past. They could have been putting that "fluff" items to be obtained in game but they were too busy making that item shop to do that.
This makes the erroneous assumption that a game has to be either 100% fun or 0% fun. What if part of the game is fun and people are paying to skip the other half?
RMT may not be fair but it is an error to argue that it does not make sense.
This makes the erroneous assumption that a game has to be either 100% fun or 0% fun. What if part of the game is fun and people are paying to skip the other half?
RMT may not be fair but it is an error to argue that it does not make sense.
Poorly designed game or the person that bought the game is playing the wrong game for them. Move along to a game that is fun all the way through. I believe it does not make sense. Why pay a developer extra money because parts of their game is unfun? These are games that are meant to be played for fun. If something is so unfun that you feel the need to swipe a credit card to bypass it, it's time to move along.
Wait... if the game is designed around buying items to enhance the fun and the player finds it fun to buy the items....
...then how is that the wrong game for that person?
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Wait... if the game is designed around buying items to enhance the fun and the player finds it fun to buy the items....
...then how is that the wrong game for that person?
I am speaking of P2P games trying to force item shops on people. I wasn't speaking of the casino games/ real life money games that F2P games are. I have always avoided them anyhow.
Have you never played a game merely to be with your friends? Not every game is friendly enough to let you play with people higher than you.
Do you PvP? Some people like the PvP aspect of a game and have no desire to PvE, ever.
Perhaps you like to craft, you don't want to level or grind, but just make things and socialize.
In all three of these cases, those people would likely happily pay to bypass content they didn't like to experience the content they did like. I highly doubt there is any game that is fun all the way through. Every game has level ranges that are abysmal and quest series that are assinine. For you, your statement might be correct, but you really shouldn't project your playstyle on everyone.
Wow...as of this post, the count is about 78% who want RMT restricted to trivial items or no RMT at all. Almost half want no RMT at all.
I havnt looked at the other polls...did they turn out any differently?
That doesn't really surprise me. We are on a site dedicated to MMOs. The people that are reading and posting here are some of your more ardent players who have the most emotionally involved in the subject matter. To many of them, acomplishing something in an MMO is more than just a measure of how much time they have spent, it's a feeling of acomplishment and skill that doesn't come as easily in real life.
There is a reason that the carrort and stick game design has worked so well. We as a populance are easily duped with ever increasing numbers often forgetting why we play the game in the first place. We mistake grind for content and seem to be happy to continue to pay for it. We worry that someone else might be getting their numbers faster, or have better numbers, that we can't get.
So when companies offer a RMT short cut, in invalidates the reason that your most devout fans are playing for. To be better than the next guy.
I would expect that a survey done inside the game itself would lend itself to much different numbers as the casual players are less likely to be upset that someone has passed them up. Now how much it would change, I don't know. I really depends on how competitive the casual player sees their MMO.
That doesn't really surprise me. We are on a site dedicated to MMOs.
...with tons of advertisers for RMT games, at least one columnist who gets a boner every time the word is mentioned, and many users willing to defend the concept of RMT in threads like this one.
The people that are reading and posting here are some of your more ardent players who have the most emotionally involved in the subject matter.
Which is exactly why I am surprised at the results. This site is actually RMT friendly, and even here there is a massive backlash against it.
I would expect that a survey done inside the game itself would lend itself to much different numbers as the casual players are less likely to be upset that someone has passed them up. Now how much it would change, I don't know. I really depends on how competitive the casual player sees their MMO.
The common theme you can see in these threads from the anti-RMT people is the concept of fairness...part of the appeal of an MMO is that the playing field is level, and RMT would undermine that if it altered game balance. I believe that this would be common among the "general population" of MMO players as well as the people who come to this site. Most people percieve having the ability to buy your way up the food chain as unfair. And unfair games are less appealing.
rmt on paper is a nice idea if it was closer to reality ,but the fact is its not a system like guild wars is better you buy the game you get the option to get build maker you buy it etc its perfect but rmt like store lol sell a horse from 11 to 25 dollars ,want to upgrade gear in say rom the sky is the limit why its not garanted the upgrade will work its avail to t 20 lol the most we saw is t7 t8 why
lol for those who know since its so random its everything like playing poker you can try to do your thing for 2000 dollars worth of diamond to buy all you need and it wont work ,the dude next to you spent 20 dollars and it worked
people dont mind rmt lol they buy mount everyday (permanent mount) they even color them lol
but everytime a f2p game add the random factor to squeeze in more money they just killed their game
because whatever you do as a player even a rich guy gearing random , will make the lucky one own not the best. the lucky that could upgrade to t 20 without spending 100k real money
rmt wont work.company always get gready and die ,we got 10$ maybe we can get 40$ lol.
espacially not a lot of f2p game are good enough to spend the monthly fee i was paying in wow
most player dont mind paying check september they ll buy at various store when aion come out
why the rule are fairly fixed the random factor isnt there ,compared to rmt games
sell the same stuff but remoove random i see some guys gear go from say t4 to t3 lolat least if it wasnt downgraded maybe
it can even downgrade lol so rmt is good for mount bling bling but thats it dont count on rmt to upgrade all your gear to say t20 you ll bankrup lol
random upgrade for gear is the worst thing there is
they should put the random in quest instead lol
Which brings us back to the number of people playing F2P vs the number playing P2P which, if I remember correctly, we were still waiting for you to get back to us with your numbers.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Oh I get why people are upset. Like any argument on an MMO it's a case of the have's vs. the have nots. I just am waiting for people to realize that time is really just as unfair as RMT. Both time and money are commodities that most of us have in limited quantities. The hypocracy of trying to say otherwise is kind of amusing.
If we are competing and you have had 100 hours to play whack a mole and I have only had 10 hours to do so, which of us is going to be better? Sure I can put another 90 hours in, but by that time you have put in 1000 hours. Is that fair? No. Is it something that I let bug me, no. That's not why you play a MMO in my opinion. However, RMT is just as unfair, it just opens the playing field to more people and allows them to leverage the comodity that they are in short supply.
So while the time rich player uses more resources, demands more content, and is a worse value to the game, the RMT player is a benefit to the devs, uses less content and places additional funds into the coffer.
Regardless of what I think, I understand why many of the players here don't like it. There are plenty of blinders that people use to justify their behavior and I am sure that most people won't agree that RMT is no less fair than P2P models.
I'm ok with RMT as long as it's cosmetic stuff or services like character transfer etc... Everything else I really do not like.
I play MMORPGs to get away from the real world. I love the stories, I like my avatar, I like the fact that my persona that I project onto that avatar effects the community and in essence the game world. Above everything I have been put onto an even playing field as everyone else which in turn allows me to be things I may not be able to be in the real world. I think that it's even because if someone does this certain quest and gets a reward, I can do the same quest and get the same reward albeit exp, currency, items etc... The outside world does not truly effect the game at all. Money does/should not effect this aspect of the game. The only real determining factor on when I get a level up or finish a quest or anything is the amount of time I put into it. And here we are, the real core of the issue concerning RMT. Should someone have the right to spend cash to gain ground, catch up, or dare I say become superior to someone else? Thinking about it, it depends on the game itself. If the game was made with a cash shop in mind, and only the best stuff can be bought then fine so be it. That's the rules of that game so spend to win. If it has more of the rules like WoW then heck no. Those are definitely not the rules and should be kicked out for breaking them.
You are probably thinking, what does this have to do with time right? =P
Well the fact of the matter is that we all have the same amount of time in a day. No one has a 55 hour day and it's up to us to utilize our time how we see fit. I see a lot of times people justify breaking the rules of the game by buying gold (not here necessarily) with the fact that they do not have the time to play the game. In actuality you do, you just did something else while your friend, foe, spouse whoever was playing and they got ahead. They do not have more time, they used it differently. Now this is where I have big issues. Not only have these people broken the clearly stated rules of the game but they have also trivialized the time by putting a money value to it. I get enough of that in real life and now you have to bring it into the dang game.... I guess they feel entitled this since they have the money and they feel that their time was more important. Trivializing the game just because some people have more time allocated for gaming than you do.
Whats the point in playing monopoly and starting with the same amount of play money and starting on go, if I can pass a real 5 to the banker to give me all the good property? Trivializing the whole game and making it only about the real world and not the game.
I have never been "l33t", I have barely ever raided. Heck I suck at PVP in general as well lol. I do not think it's unfair that someone has the "blazing sword of extreme awesomeness" that looks 3 times the size if their avatars body and can easily 3 hit someone. I also do not think it's unfair that my friends have gained a 20 level lead on me. I feel this way because I know if I put the same time into the game I will be where they are now (more or less) and If I put more time in I'll catch up eventually. I'm glad I play this way because now I do get a slight sense of accomplishment and I have met and interacted with new people playing my own little story.
This is just how I feel about the whole matter. I know that some people do not feel or play the same way. That's fine I suppose, I just wanted to voice my thoughts on the matter. You can agree or disagree, thats fine as well but it won't change my mind =P.
I do have one question though for the people who want RMT for the reason I said above.
Did you gain anything while everyone else was playing the game?
TL;DR
I feel it's fair that someone has gotten ahead of me because they have probably put more time into the game than I have. I feel it's unfair that someone trivializes someone else's time using money to catch up though.
If you were smart you wouldn't support P2P games with items shops in them. You know what? In the past your wife would have had that virtual gear in game but since they added an item shop "to enhance" gameplay it will be put there instead. Item shops do affect the game for everyone. Why would the devs give out the same amount of content for the included sub price as they did in the past when they have a shiny little item shop to put a lot of the items in? If people would think they would remember a time when SOE put out two expansion packs a year but now are putting out maybe one a year with even worse content than one of the two in the past. They could have been putting that "fluff" items to be obtained in game but they were too busy making that item shop to do that.
Very ugly way of double barrelled discussion, adding an insult to the ugly way of speech.
He is either smart and support you, or disagree with you and is not smart. So either way he is wrong and you are right. Qombi, you are about the least ethical person on earth, calling people unsmart while putting up a double barrel.
Qombi, if you are smart you should shut up, you are a liar.
Wait... if the game is designed around buying items to enhance the fun and the player finds it fun to buy the items....
...then how is that the wrong game for that person?
I am speaking of P2P games trying to force item shops on people. I wasn't speaking of the casino games/ real life money games that F2P games are. I have always avoided them anyhow.
whatever game it is Lynx is right.
He who has the money and willing to spend it can do it so long as it is within the brackets of law. Jealousy from your QQs only shows "sour grape" tears. If you do not want to pay, go play something else.
Thousands of people pay money online to change the look of their icons in chatrooms. Thousands of people pay thousands of dollars to download odd sound waves and songs for their mobiles. Thousands ... . What do I mean to say?
NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
For all those crusaders who keeps raising the banner of fairness, may I ask
(1) Whose standard of fairness is fair, yours or mine?
(2) Why is fairness the standard for judging games, do you play for fairness, or fun?
(3) Why do you need me to play in your perceived standard of fairness, what if I want to play a game in the way I want?
You can refuse to play a game you do not like, on any ground. You can tell me why you do not like it. That is it. Stop there. Pushing further, as if your idea is the truth and binding, and we should all rally behind you, is pathetic dilusive self grandeur. Enough people already tells you they do not care about your views. Not that you are wrong, but that your views stops in front of your monitor, it does not reach out to them.
Simply put, your argument is not convincing.
You seem to talk about fairness and fun as if they are mutually exclusive. I don't think they are. I think they go together.
For example, is it fair in a hockey game if one goalie is allowed to wear oversized pads? No, it's not. Why not? Because his or her team will have an advantage over the opposing team. Their opponents are less likely to score. It's not fair because it's not a level playing field. How much fun do you think it would be for the goalie and team with the regular sized pads? Probably not nearly as fun as it would be for the team with the advantage.
How does this relate to RMT? In some games, they'll sell oversized pads (performance enhancing loot or buffs) through their item shop. If you pay the extra cash, you get an advantage. It's no longer a level playing field. Oh you can level it up if you want, but then you have to pay more money. Now the developer can toy with people and bleed them dry in a virtual arms race. Is that fun? Maybe for the developer. It's less likely to be fun for the gamers who have fallen behind on the virtual loot, or for all of the gamers sucked into the arms race when they inevitably get the Visa bill.
This of course is only relevant if the RMT items are performance enhancing. I can think of games that have this, and I avoid them for this reason. On the other hand, I've played and enjoyed games that offered RMT items that were not in any way performance enhancing. The RMT content is entirely optional. It's more about fashion and fun than remaining competitive.
That kind of RMT does not create imbalances in the game. It also does not engineer and exploit those imbalances to fleece gamers.
I would disagree on the point of we all have the same time in a day and it's how we choose to spend it. I don't know where you are in life, but at least to me, the older you get, the more your time is spoken. When I was in high school, I had most evenings free, weekends, and all summer. When I was in college, there was tons of time unless it was near exams. When I got married, I also had a job to pay for my house along with spending time with my wife. As my responsibility grew with children, their needs intruded on the time that I had.
Yes, we all have 24 hours in a day. However, the amount of disposable time that we recieve differs vastly. This is no different than each of us having differing amounts of cash to spend on our entertainment. I personally think it's unfair that you can play for 8 hours a day while I have other responsibilities that have to be met if my family is going to have a roof over their head and food on the table. I don't choose to work over play, I have to work over play.
Frankly those people trivialize anything that I will ever do and their limitless time creates an unfair gulf that I can not catch up. Because for how ever many hours I put in, they will be putting in 4x those hours.
You can argue that people have the same ability to earn money and choose to play games instead. Both time and money are limited comodoties for most people. True, there is less varriance in time and the caps are much harder, but in practice, both are completely limited, and both affect your game experience.
Sure, buying performance items creates imbalance, we don't all have the same amount of money to spend. However, if the other hockey team is allowed to play an extra 15 minutes after the first, the game is no less fair. Sure you can play hard for the same three periods, but no matter what you do, they get the extra 15 minutes. How fair is that?
Very good read. I enjoyed it. : D
Wait... if the game is designed around buying items to enhance the fun and the player finds it fun to buy the items....
...then how is that the wrong game for that person?
I am speaking of P2P games trying to force item shops on people. I wasn't speaking of the casino games/ real life money games that F2P games are. I have always avoided them anyhow.
whatever game it is Lynx is right.
He who has the money and willing to spend it can do it so long as it is within the brackets of law. Jealousy from your QQs only shows "sour grape" tears. If you do not want to pay, go play something else.
Thousands of people pay money online to change the look of their icons in chatrooms. Thousands of people pay thousands of dollars to download odd sound waves and songs for their mobiles. Thousands ... . What do I mean to say?
NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
You are taking this too personal. I am not angry. If you think this is about jealousy then you I am afraid have missed the whole reason people play games. The fact is you are arguing for RMT because of jealousy of others. I myself find RMT a disgusting perversion on rpg gaming because it goes against what gaming is. Games are meant to be enjoyed by playing them. Swiping a credit card for items isn't playing a game. If a game is good then you enjoy being in the world playing it. If a game is bad you do not. Buying items with a credit card can never buy you what others get from playing the game and that is the experience of playing the game. That is ultimately what you are paying for the experience of playing the game.
If it was not then it wouldn't be called a game. Buying items online doesn't equal a game or game content. That is a lazy way for a developer to make money. Making fun content to be played is what a game is. All the things you mention below are not classified as games. Unlike you I do just that, if I find a game unfun I quit it. I no longer support them with my money. A game adds an item shop that I am playing, I quit. I no longer want the product. If you were smart you would see that if a game design isn't for you then you move to one that is fun and for you. Giving developers money for virtual pixels to bypass their game content isn't the answer. The answer would be to find that game that you find fun without having to bypass the content.
I would disagree on the point of we all have the same time in a day and it's how we choose to spend it. I don't know where you are in life, but at least to me, the older you get, the more your time is spoken. When I was in high school, I had most evenings free, weekends, and all summer. When I was in college, there was tons of time unless it was near exams. When I got married, I also had a job to pay for my house along with spending time with my wife. As my responsibility grew with children, their needs intruded on the time that I had.
Yes, we all have 24 hours in a day. However, the amount of disposable time that we recieve differs vastly. This is no different than each of us having differing amounts of cash to spend on our entertainment. I personally think it's unfair that you can play for 8 hours a day while I have other responsibilities that have to be met if my family is going to have a roof over their head and food on the table. I don't choose to work over play, I have to work over play.
Frankly those people trivialize anything that I will ever do and their limitless time creates an unfair gulf that I can not catch up. Because for how ever many hours I put in, they will be putting in 4x those hours.
You can argue that people have the same ability to earn money and choose to play games instead. Both time and money are limited comodoties for most people. True, there is less varriance in time and the caps are much harder, but in practice, both are completely limited, and both affect your game experience.
It still does not refute my point. It's all choices. You chose to get married and have children..... some people did not. Some work different hours of the day, some work varying hours, some have 2 jobs! Some are punk kids that do not know any better and some are just elitist jerks. Does that make it ok to trivialize everyone else game with money? All because they have more time to actually play game than you. Also I still think it's fair still because if you did the exact same things in the same amount of time that the other people did you get the exact same rewards. It becomes a matter of when and not if. Which leads me to believe that you want to shortcut the game in order to get it all now. Like my monopoly analogy. You do not want to really play, you want to be the best now.
Honestly, you want to throw other players to the wind just because they can play more? Yes they play more, yes they are ahead yes they probably do not have as much responsibility than you, but for goodness sake they played the game more than you, why shouldn't they be ahead?
Let me give you another example although a little extreme. You and your co worker put in a regular day but your coworker decides he is going to work extra and you go home to do whatever, or you go pay bills or something. 2 weeks go by and you co worker comments on how much in overtime he made. Would you go to you boss and try to leverage a way of getting extra pay like your co worker? He did more time than you, he deserves his extra pay. He may have had less responsibility therefore more time to stay at work but does that entitle you to same amount of pay as him even though he may not have a wife and kids to provide for and you do?
I know I know, we are talking about a game but should we "bend the rules" just because it is?
Now, I never said that all RMT should die. I realise people feel the same as you and they should be able to spend to make up for time because that's fun for them i suppose. I hate the people that buy gold in games not set up for that kind of play. Like I said they are breaking the rules and trivializing time put in. If it's a game like RoM then go on a spending spree, I do not care because i wont be playing anyways.
It makes it no more so than for anyone else to trivialize my experience with time. All because they have more time to play. Yes there are parts in games that I would have happily shortcut. There are missions, levels, and other tasks that are maddeningly boring. Even in games I have loved, when I alted there were times I really didn't want to grind through the same content for the tenth time. If I'm paying to shortcut something, I obviously want to play whatever is past what I am bypassing. Obviously I love the game enough to drop cash into it to play the parts I want.
So going back to the point, if the arguement against RMT is a sense of fair play, then make sure that you realize that you are not making the game more fair, just choosing which bias you want to place.
As for your example, no I would not expect to be paid the same as him. However, I do not pay my job to come work there. They pay me. I do pay to play games for entertainment. I expect them to be fun and if I need to pay a little more to make my experience more fun, I have to weigh that purchase like I do the $15 a month that I either already spend, or would spend. If it's a game I've played for a while, I might very well pay something to make my time there less to get to parts of the game I enjoy more.
So yes, we should bend the rules. You get to spend all the time you want getting your goodies. In a good RMT I don't take away your loot. You earned it and should have the same satisfaction whether I buy my loot, earn my loot, or don't have it. You do what's fun with your entertainment and I do the same. When we meet in the game, you can tell me how you earned your loot and I'll probably congratulate you. However, I'll be able to play the same game as you and will probably be happier for it.
You are right, I am just as bias as everyone else. You feel your money is more important than my time, and I feel my time is more important than your money. There I said it! =P
Let me put the trivialization of time aside because it is bias and opinion.
I'm not on a mission to change your mind but to tell you my perspective. Like I said before though. I do not like those RMT heavy games but I think they should exist for people like you. I have problems when people try to pull that crap in games that it is not meant for. If the rules state that you cannot do something that means you cannot do that something. If you do you are a cheater. No if ands or buts, you are a cheater. There is no justification for it. So logically, if you break the rules, and become a cheater, did you play the game fair? I do not care for what ever reason. Did you play fair?
Do you honestly expect me to pretend the game is fair when you have broken the stated rules?
For the simple fact you have extra money you are willing to burn, the rules do not apply to you anymore?
If you truly feel this way then, fine.... we will just have to agree to disagree.