I think a lot of you have taken Dana's words too literally. Seems like he was intentionally exaggerating some of his points, maybe for...emphasis?
Anyway, he's also totally right. If you think the majority of RPers stick to their guns and roleplay well, you've either never roleplayed or you're so caught up in your own bullshit that you've actually convinced yourself that you're doing it right. In reality, there is nothing different in the way you play than the average gamer except that you don't talk out of character as much. Most people that attempt to roleplay are not convincing and don't even attempt to act out their character. They just play themselves, and manage to go half an hour or so without talking out of character ingame. Being as quiet, shy and uninteresting in a game as you are in real life is not roleplaying (sorry). I had to go through being a GM for many different groups in Pen and Paper games and explain this over and over again to people that didn't realize my campaigns were not a fucking grind for experience/stats. Then there's a large amount of people that play on RP servers that aren't concerned so much with the whole roleplaying deal, they just want to be part of a seemingly more mature community thats devoid of distractions.
Apparently it's YOU who has never role-played with a group of people with a modicum of actual interest in what they are trying to accomplish (or you're just lying, which I'm more inclined to believe). Where you get the basis for half of the crap you just spewed is unfathomable -- I NEVER role-play as a character remotely similar to myself (I usually play different races and/or the opposite gender --- heck, I've dual-boxed while role-playing, meaning I was playing more than one character at a time). I was told by many people that I enhanced their enjoyment by providing them with an interesting story in which their charactrers could participate. Yes, there are people who don't try/aren't convincing, but the vast majority of people whom I've met that were actually TRYING to play in character performed quite well and provided me with far more immersion than solo-play ever could have yieled.
Again, I'm not sure how you justify stating that " [m]ost people that attempt to roleplay are not convincing and don't even attempt to act out their character" -- you are making rash generalizations just as the article's author did. I'd seriously doubt that you've role-played nearly as much as you state you have. Yes, the random person hanging around the city might not seem convincing, but that's what guilds are for, remember? Every decent role-player whom I've met was through one guild or another.
Congratulations for you, but too many people on Roleplaying servers:
-Lack characteristics that aren't their own in real life
-Declare your character's name without ever meeting him, simply because your name hovers above your head
-Cry that you don't role play just because the character you play happens to be a dick/bitch
-Use metagame tactics in battles that don't make sense in game (example: pulling)
-Prevent unfavorable situations by metagaming (example: countering future betrayals ahead of time using out of game knowledge, even though there's no way their character would know about it)
-Have the same unoriginal backstory (a stranger killed my parents when I was a child and I want revenge)
-Get confused as hell when you try to role play with them
Most of these hold true for all role playing venues from Pen & Paper to LARPing to Private Multiplayer Game Servers to MMORPG's. These and more are especially violated in MMORPG's.
_________________________________ "Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..." -George "sniperg" Light
Roleplaying is an opportunity to, you know, use your imagination. It doesn't hurt that much. Actors do it. They're not all bad are they?
Silver Hand was one of the first WoW RP servers, and though last time I was back there, there was indeed, practically no roleplaying, it nevertheless had a fair bit when it first started.
If you tried to base your roleplay persona on the character moving through the game, doing the same quests as everyone else, well obviously that can't work. Most people gave it a passing attempt, and gave up. Fair enough, given the structure of the game.
But early on, plenty of people took an idea, something about their class, race, or something brought in entirely from outside the game, and created a fantastic performance around it. I don't know anyone who talked exclusively in-character. Its alienating to do too much of it. But when two or more of those people met in game and really "got it," there was huge fun that could be had compared to merely running through the content. Minds would fizz and spur one-another on to great times I'll likely never see online again.
For those that can't get over their distaste for whatever they perceive a roleplayer to be, let me remind you that "normal" conversation is all make-believe too.
What's really sad is this article, which seems to damn the notion and spirit of roleplay as much as the present state of it in the mmorpg world.
I actually do roleplay, depending on the game. (Not in WoW, but in LoTRO, MxO, SWG and several other games I have played and currently play).
The generalization that roleplayers either possess a victim mentality or that roleplayers are more interested in "cybering the troll" than in development of their characters is, in my experience, about as valid as the generalization that everyone who plays WoW is a moronic imbecile who is only out to grief other players (hence the christening of the term "WoWtard"). The reality is that both generalizations could not be further from the truth.
While there certainly are roleplayers with superiority complexes and victim mentalities, there are also roleplayers who put a lot of time and effort into their characters' development. Many of those of us who choose to roleplay are interested in improving our avatar's combat abilities and our own skill at doing something other than mastering the cooking profession. (Personally, the only time I've ever cared about mastering cooking was in SWG because it took a lot of effort to become a good chef and find the best possible materials.)
In the same way, there are certainly PvPers whose main goal is to grief other players...but the majority of PvPers are seeking to have a good time and improve their skills and are also quite capable of being mature and responsible contributors to their various MMO communities.
It's my opinion that this article was written with a preconceived notion of who and what roleplayers are. In point of fact, I know of several fairly good-sized roleplaying guilds in several games. While in-game, most of the roleplayers involved in those guilds speak in character in both spatial and in guild chat and use tells or OOC chat for out of character conversations. While most of the roleplayers I know also happen to be mature individuals who are courteous and polite, there are some who are..uh...let's just say "less than pleasant" and leave it at that. Incidentally, the guy/girl who wants to cyber everything in a skirt/pants generally isn't a roleplayer. There's a word for what those folks generally are, but it isn't often used in polite company - and most roleplayers make liberal use of ./ignore for those types of folks.
On a personal note, I think I would like to see Dana get involved - even if it's just for research purposes for a future article - with an actual, reputable roleplaying guild or group. I once had the same opinion of roleplayers that this article seems to display, but meeting some amazingly good people who also happened to be roleplayers gave me a fresh perspective. I believe it may be possible that, if one were to spend enough time with players who actually roleplay in games but who are also willing and wanting to improve their skill at playing the game (because, honestly, who wants a tank who thinks the term refers to an M1 Abrams? Or a hunter who can't shoot or dodge worth a dang?), they would be as pleasantly surprised as I was back in my "I play the game to PvP, so if you don't want to fight then bugger off" days.
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
I can say that the other articles you have written I agreed with, at least a little bit. They were all extremely uninformed about the subjects you covered but they at least seemed like you had actually played an MMO game before.
Unfortunately I can not say the same thing for this article. This attack against RPers just makes you sound ignorant. Obviously you do not like RPers but bashing an entire group of players that you know absolutely nothing about is unprofessional.
I really question if you have ever played an MMO game besides WoW. You seem to know very little about the genre.
Thanks for the articles, but I don't feel the need to read your drivel any longer.
Edit: I just thought that I would add that I have never role-played in any MMO game.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Well, I have to say that the article is provocatively enough to stimulate discussion, as can be seen by the amount of answers.
What I wonder though, is why the bashing on RPers - if RP could be done one a "regular" server, were all respect each other, then it wouldn't be a "problem". But there are too many who are on the extreme non-rp and on the extreme rp side who just can't get along.
Ultima Online is a place where I meet RPers without the RP server. There still is e.g. a guild where you have guard duty and a strict hierachy in the guild to fit the RP needs.
In AoC at launch on a RP-PVP server there were folks "ganking" at bridges in terms of "pay or die", so if you payed the waylayers, you could pass. This is such a small thing without taking it to the extreme, I wish there was more of that on any type of server.
RP servers exist, and WoW had a large impact there, but as stated, how many do actually RP there?
Grind is what destroyed RP. And that is equally WoWs fault as many other MMOs who work with time sinks for money (read monthly fee).
I have read through all the replies to this topic. I cannot add anything more than what has already been posted in defense of RP's and the servers.
Sure some improvement could be made, just like any aspect of a game is never perfect. You just have to get on with what you have available. I dont tend to let people annoy me, they pay for the game as much as me, I have an Ignore button for those that spoil it for me. this is the price you pay for being a minority.
I no way is this just cause howerver for the OP you made.
In fact you got your erruption,as intended, then got a pyroclastic cloud that followed.Please choose your words better next time.
It might be an idea to start a new topic with the story you wanted to write, that would infact result in a more sivilized debate. I happen to agree, this is definately a topic worht posting to, "the mythh of role playing servers, do they actually serve the rp'r"?
(it wouldnt be entirely out of the question to appologize to those that were offended either,... would it? mr.PR.)
this is not worth losing a job over, I like reading your articles, and i agree with (and sometimes dont) your topics, dont spoil your standards, and if you have a personal view on a topic, make sure we know your writing states that, (impo)in my personal oppinion. youre a person with responsibility, a title to uphold and a reputation to keep clean, let alone your personal rep.
im sure the others working on mmorpg did not expect this type of response to an article.
I was actually checking by the site to see if there were any viable roleplaying games comming up. And this, ofcourse, was not quite what I expected.
Odd that one working for a MMORPG site would be as kind as to scorn a percentage of those they should cater for. One would think an emplyee of such a site would seek to gather, not alienate the players.
Lastly thugh this whole PvP versus Rp thing is something I never understood. I roleplay and I PvP, I would not have one without the other.
I definitely got a reaction out of you all. Mind you while I obviously am not a fan of rp servers I may have been a bit over the top. The goal of this is to incite debate not riots.
The goal to incite did hurt the quality of your article though. And made your stance less believable. But apparently the article did not target me as an audience. I read it nonetheless and sighed.
On regular servers I sometimes engage in roleplay lite, just to fuck off a bit, but when I go to a RP server, it's fun to RP. You have to have an imagination in order to enjoy it. Hell, even a sense of humor would do.
I don't even know why they bother to make RP servers since no company ever bothers to really enforce them. If I came into regular chat on a game and started cursing your heritage, especially your mother, or something, I'm pretty sure I'd get banned for my apparent lack of respect.
The Role Players can't even get any respect on their own servers, and those who are supposed to enforce the rules don't even care.
But seriously, one solution to the problem would be to have an unlimited ignore list. That way, every asshole that comes into a roleplay server talking garbage about people using their imaginations to take them someplace beyond the every day grind would just be screaming their nonsense into the wind.
Why have the rules anyway if no one will enforce them?
I agree, however that some roleplayers I've come across in my time are exactly as negative as you describe them; I just disagree on the percentages.
This article might as well be titled as "what players on non RP servers think of RP servers."
The real reason that MMOs have no progressed in to true RPing is that they offer very little to the RPing community. If you want to see true RPing go to a LARP convention, LARP games are built for RPing, MMOs are built for Hard core gamers, comon gamers, and the masses that wander into WoW after their friends tell them about how much fun they are.
A MMO that caters to RP junkies would have to be built for those players, characters that had moral choices that effected their characers, quests with multiple out comes depending on how you handled it, the world and other players effected by what you have done, on top of all of this a game where your character is truely customizable beyond any thing we have seen before.
Customization is what kills it for me, Pen and Paper and Larp both have something MMOs still havnt grasped. The history of the character, most games start off with very generic backgrounds for your character so they dont have to explain in detail who you are. Generic is what kills the Rping, sure your character looks slightly different that that other random character someone just made due to gear and slight choice differences, but in the end your Elf Warrior is the same as every one elses Elf Warrior.
Give me a game with Scars on my body each time I die, where I can create a background for my character based on quest I am currently doing, or even flashbacks during quests that alters something in the game that I can see directly.
Right now the closest game being made to this is SWTOR, though it is doubtful that beyond the moral choices with NPCs and during quests that the game will be able to determine in a PvP setting if my actions were motivated by good or evil, and that ultimately I dont think any game will really give the full customization that a Larp or Pen and Paper RPGs allow.
Dana seems to be a guy who has been insulted once by roleplayers or something and now tries to take it out on the rest. I'm on a WoW RP server, and while not everyone roleplays, there are plenty that do, there are fun events, occasional random RP and a good friendly atmosphere you won't find on any other server. To bad a sour guy like Dana has to miss out on that.
I have been reading the articles on MMORPG.com for some time but have not feelt the need to log in and give my thoughts for a long long time.
Other people here have all ready given a plethora of reasons why role-playing servers are an excellent choice for some gamers, so I wont go into it. What I want to say is that I am deeply upset by this article, it is the closest thing to a gamer racisim I have ever read on an professional gaming site, terrible! So many of the so called "facts" Dana writes about are just plain wrong and either he just did not do any research into the matter or he is so biast towards RP-servers that he should not have writen this article in the first place, stick to what you know DANA.
ps. sorry about the spelling, english is not my first lang.
This article has done one good thing wether you guys like it or not.
It shows that we as a community can go so many pages without flaming each other when presented with an asshole we all have a common hate against.
It's nice to see the amount so far, and yes, if this article isn't taken down there will be more of us... it's nice to see us 'stand up?' to an uneducated and biased staff member.
I have to say that was an exceptionally misinformed and unenlightened article. I prefer to play on "RP" servers, not because of any real expectation of roleplaying - nor to "annoy" roleplayers. I play on them because they tend to have better enforced social guide lines on chat, naming conventions and behavior. It's not all about bad acting lessons, shakespearian accents or drama queens. It's about respecting the intended uses of chat channels and tiny little things like not being allowed to deliberately break the immersion of someone elses playing time. I couldn't care less what you say or how you say it in an OOC channel, guild chat or a private convo; because I can choose to not be listening to them. However, I find having to listen to some moron named N33D5D0P3 talk about Michel Jackson in zone wide general chat to be really annoying. So, no they aren't perfect and they really aren't about rigidly enforced "roleplaying"...but I find RP servers to be a better social environment than most MMO servers, simply because they actually allow for the enforcement of some basic rules of conduct and consideration.
This. Exactly my point.
...especially the part about "exceptionally misinformed and unenlightened, Dana.
I prefer rp servers because there always seems to a smaller group or the Ipwnurmom crowd on it and the community is more helpful. Don't really know that many people that talk they they should be in Hamlet. It is also nice to play a game with people who realize it is just a game and not a second job like those loathsome people who raid 4 and 5 days a week.
c) never been a role player and therefor says there are none
d) a bored life because of writing such bad article
e) no idea on what to write about
I mean if he would have written that's interesting to read or something real about why the role play server are overrun by non-roleplayers. The real problem is that most role players would like an environment like the auther described as fantasy and such environments also exist. No, I don't tell you where, because if I write it here, they will be overrun by a lot of stupid morons.
I have three solutions for the bad RP server in many MMOs:
Everyone has to write a _good_ char story befor getting in game.
A player referring system: You need somone, who lets you in. If you allow stupid people to join you get kicked/banned
A ranking system: If you prove to be able to role play you will be able to do more.
I guess if you pay at least 10 bucks a month a gaming company should be able to maintain good RP servers. If not, they are not worth there money. There are a lot of communities, who are able to do this for free and everyone, who really wants to play good RP should be able to find them.
Another tip: Don't expect good RP in a game, where your job is to kill monsters or players 24/7 and don't expect to be able to join them without a char story or a monthly fee.
IIRC the role play in 'A tale in desert' wasn't too bad.
Through my ten-plus years of playing MMO's, I have always played on roleplaying servers, because, *gasp*, I actually want to roleplay. In fact, the entire reason I started playing them in the first place was the thought that I could experience another world as my character. Furthermore, over the years I have met plenty of people like myself who spend their time in game roleplaying everything they do and will just not play a game at all if they have no roleplaying servers.
That this article even saw the light of day puts a huge black mark on this website. The author is truly ignorant and offensive.
I definitely got a reaction out of you all. Mind you while I obviously am not a fan of rp servers I may have been a bit over the top. The goal of this is to incite debate not riots.
So was this to you some sort of social experiment?
If so, subtlety would be your friend for future posts.
The disconnect from the keyboard to the screen is enough of a barrier that as neat as these games have become, they remain games. When someone plays Fallout, it creates a world that has more in common with reading a book than being in a play. When someone logs into World of Warcraft, they don’t even have the fiction to sink into. It’s about playing the game, and socializing, but few actually feel like they “become” their character.
Thank you, Dana!
Immersion talk always annoys me. I can suspend disbelief as well as the next guy, but unless I'm on stage or doing something with friends IRL (including tabletop), the keyboard and monitor keep me separated from my characters and their worlds.
------------- The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
I have very little to add as most have already covered the various issues with this article in so many posts. This was one of the worst articles filled to the brim with so many "mistruths" its utterly amazing it was even published. This article does a disservice to not only the roleplaying community but the credibility of the writer and MMORPG.com
I definitely got a reaction out of you all. Mind you while I obviously am not a fan of rp servers I may have been a bit over the top. The goal of this is to incite debate not riots.
You know, I've never been a fan of your writing, but I always got the idea that you were taking the "shock jock" approach to journalism. However, on this type of medium, it sounds more like Jerry Spinger.
You simply try to incite raw emotion and debate - even in it's most unhealthy of forms. Isn't this what the definition of what a troll is?
Out of curiousity, would you accept an article or allow a blog on constructive journalism riddled with opinion from your fellow readers and not your staff? Or would you simply make sure that it never sees the light of day?
Comments
Apparently it's YOU who has never role-played with a group of people with a modicum of actual interest in what they are trying to accomplish (or you're just lying, which I'm more inclined to believe). Where you get the basis for half of the crap you just spewed is unfathomable -- I NEVER role-play as a character remotely similar to myself (I usually play different races and/or the opposite gender --- heck, I've dual-boxed while role-playing, meaning I was playing more than one character at a time). I was told by many people that I enhanced their enjoyment by providing them with an interesting story in which their charactrers could participate. Yes, there are people who don't try/aren't convincing, but the vast majority of people whom I've met that were actually TRYING to play in character performed quite well and provided me with far more immersion than solo-play ever could have yieled.
Again, I'm not sure how you justify stating that " [m]ost people that attempt to roleplay are not convincing and don't even attempt to act out their character" -- you are making rash generalizations just as the article's author did. I'd seriously doubt that you've role-played nearly as much as you state you have. Yes, the random person hanging around the city might not seem convincing, but that's what guilds are for, remember? Every decent role-player whom I've met was through one guild or another.
Congratulations for you, but too many people on Roleplaying servers:
-Lack characteristics that aren't their own in real life
-Declare your character's name without ever meeting him, simply because your name hovers above your head
-Cry that you don't role play just because the character you play happens to be a dick/bitch
-Use metagame tactics in battles that don't make sense in game (example: pulling)
-Prevent unfavorable situations by metagaming (example: countering future betrayals ahead of time using out of game knowledge, even though there's no way their character would know about it)
-Have the same unoriginal backstory (a stranger killed my parents when I was a child and I want revenge)
-Get confused as hell when you try to role play with them
Most of these hold true for all role playing venues from Pen & Paper to LARPing to Private Multiplayer Game Servers to MMORPG's. These and more are especially violated in MMORPG's.
_________________________________
"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
Roleplaying is an opportunity to, you know, use your imagination. It doesn't hurt that much. Actors do it. They're not all bad are they?
Silver Hand was one of the first WoW RP servers, and though last time I was back there, there was indeed, practically no roleplaying, it nevertheless had a fair bit when it first started.
If you tried to base your roleplay persona on the character moving through the game, doing the same quests as everyone else, well obviously that can't work. Most people gave it a passing attempt, and gave up. Fair enough, given the structure of the game.
But early on, plenty of people took an idea, something about their class, race, or something brought in entirely from outside the game, and created a fantastic performance around it. I don't know anyone who talked exclusively in-character. Its alienating to do too much of it. But when two or more of those people met in game and really "got it," there was huge fun that could be had compared to merely running through the content. Minds would fizz and spur one-another on to great times I'll likely never see online again.
For those that can't get over their distaste for whatever they perceive a roleplayer to be, let me remind you that "normal" conversation is all make-believe too.
What's really sad is this article, which seems to damn the notion and spirit of roleplay as much as the present state of it in the mmorpg world.
I play on RP servers because people like Dana Massey DON'T.
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I actually do roleplay, depending on the game. (Not in WoW, but in LoTRO, MxO, SWG and several other games I have played and currently play).
The generalization that roleplayers either possess a victim mentality or that roleplayers are more interested in "cybering the troll" than in development of their characters is, in my experience, about as valid as the generalization that everyone who plays WoW is a moronic imbecile who is only out to grief other players (hence the christening of the term "WoWtard"). The reality is that both generalizations could not be further from the truth.
While there certainly are roleplayers with superiority complexes and victim mentalities, there are also roleplayers who put a lot of time and effort into their characters' development. Many of those of us who choose to roleplay are interested in improving our avatar's combat abilities and our own skill at doing something other than mastering the cooking profession. (Personally, the only time I've ever cared about mastering cooking was in SWG because it took a lot of effort to become a good chef and find the best possible materials.)
In the same way, there are certainly PvPers whose main goal is to grief other players...but the majority of PvPers are seeking to have a good time and improve their skills and are also quite capable of being mature and responsible contributors to their various MMO communities.
It's my opinion that this article was written with a preconceived notion of who and what roleplayers are. In point of fact, I know of several fairly good-sized roleplaying guilds in several games. While in-game, most of the roleplayers involved in those guilds speak in character in both spatial and in guild chat and use tells or OOC chat for out of character conversations. While most of the roleplayers I know also happen to be mature individuals who are courteous and polite, there are some who are..uh...let's just say "less than pleasant" and leave it at that.
Incidentally, the guy/girl who wants to cyber everything in a skirt/pants generally isn't a roleplayer. There's a word for what those folks generally are, but it isn't often used in polite company - and most roleplayers make liberal use of ./ignore for those types of folks.
On a personal note, I think I would like to see Dana get involved - even if it's just for research purposes for a future article - with an actual, reputable roleplaying guild or group. I once had the same opinion of roleplayers that this article seems to display, but meeting some amazingly good people who also happened to be roleplayers gave me a fresh perspective. I believe it may be possible that, if one were to spend enough time with players who actually roleplay in games but who are also willing and wanting to improve their skill at playing the game (because, honestly, who wants a tank who thinks the term refers to an M1 Abrams? Or a hunter who can't shoot or dodge worth a dang?), they would be as pleasantly surprised as I was back in my "I play the game to PvP, so if you don't want to fight then bugger off" days.
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
I've read all of your articles, Dana.
I can say that the other articles you have written I agreed with, at least a little bit. They were all extremely uninformed about the subjects you covered but they at least seemed like you had actually played an MMO game before.
Unfortunately I can not say the same thing for this article. This attack against RPers just makes you sound ignorant. Obviously you do not like RPers but bashing an entire group of players that you know absolutely nothing about is unprofessional.
I really question if you have ever played an MMO game besides WoW. You seem to know very little about the genre.
Thanks for the articles, but I don't feel the need to read your drivel any longer.
Edit: I just thought that I would add that I have never role-played in any MMO game.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Well, I have to say that the article is provocatively enough to stimulate discussion, as can be seen by the amount of answers.
What I wonder though, is why the bashing on RPers - if RP could be done one a "regular" server, were all respect each other, then it wouldn't be a "problem". But there are too many who are on the extreme non-rp and on the extreme rp side who just can't get along.
Ultima Online is a place where I meet RPers without the RP server. There still is e.g. a guild where you have guard duty and a strict hierachy in the guild to fit the RP needs.
In AoC at launch on a RP-PVP server there were folks "ganking" at bridges in terms of "pay or die", so if you payed the waylayers, you could pass. This is such a small thing without taking it to the extreme, I wish there was more of that on any type of server.
RP servers exist, and WoW had a large impact there, but as stated, how many do actually RP there?
Grind is what destroyed RP. And that is equally WoWs fault as many other MMOs who work with time sinks for money (read monthly fee).
I have read through all the replies to this topic. I cannot add anything more than what has already been posted in defense of RP's and the servers.
Sure some improvement could be made, just like any aspect of a game is never perfect. You just have to get on with what you have available. I dont tend to let people annoy me, they pay for the game as much as me, I have an Ignore button for those that spoil it for me. this is the price you pay for being a minority.
I no way is this just cause howerver for the OP you made.
In fact you got your erruption,as intended, then got a pyroclastic cloud that followed.Please choose your words better next time.
It might be an idea to start a new topic with the story you wanted to write, that would infact result in a more sivilized debate. I happen to agree, this is definately a topic worht posting to, "the mythh of role playing servers, do they actually serve the rp'r"?
(it wouldnt be entirely out of the question to appologize to those that were offended either,... would it? mr.PR.)
this is not worth losing a job over, I like reading your articles, and i agree with (and sometimes dont) your topics, dont spoil your standards, and if you have a personal view on a topic, make sure we know your writing states that, (impo)in my personal oppinion. youre a person with responsibility, a title to uphold and a reputation to keep clean, let alone your personal rep.
im sure the others working on mmorpg did not expect this type of response to an article.
I was actually checking by the site to see if there were any viable roleplaying games comming up. And this, ofcourse, was not quite what I expected.
Odd that one working for a MMORPG site would be as kind as to scorn a percentage of those they should cater for. One would think an emplyee of such a site would seek to gather, not alienate the players.
Lastly thugh this whole PvP versus Rp thing is something I never understood. I roleplay and I PvP, I would not have one without the other.
The goal to incite did hurt the quality of your article though. And made your stance less believable. But apparently the article did not target me as an audience. I read it nonetheless and sighed.
--
Delanor
On regular servers I sometimes engage in roleplay lite, just to fuck off a bit, but when I go to a RP server, it's fun to RP. You have to have an imagination in order to enjoy it. Hell, even a sense of humor would do.
I don't even know why they bother to make RP servers since no company ever bothers to really enforce them. If I came into regular chat on a game and started cursing your heritage, especially your mother, or something, I'm pretty sure I'd get banned for my apparent lack of respect.
The Role Players can't even get any respect on their own servers, and those who are supposed to enforce the rules don't even care.
But seriously, one solution to the problem would be to have an unlimited ignore list. That way, every asshole that comes into a roleplay server talking garbage about people using their imaginations to take them someplace beyond the every day grind would just be screaming their nonsense into the wind.
Why have the rules anyway if no one will enforce them?
I agree, however that some roleplayers I've come across in my time are exactly as negative as you describe them; I just disagree on the percentages.
https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/Bleakmage
While this article is true, it is poorly written.
This article might as well be titled as "what players on non RP servers think of RP servers."
The real reason that MMOs have no progressed in to true RPing is that they offer very little to the RPing community. If you want to see true RPing go to a LARP convention, LARP games are built for RPing, MMOs are built for Hard core gamers, comon gamers, and the masses that wander into WoW after their friends tell them about how much fun they are.
A MMO that caters to RP junkies would have to be built for those players, characters that had moral choices that effected their characers, quests with multiple out comes depending on how you handled it, the world and other players effected by what you have done, on top of all of this a game where your character is truely customizable beyond any thing we have seen before.
Customization is what kills it for me, Pen and Paper and Larp both have something MMOs still havnt grasped. The history of the character, most games start off with very generic backgrounds for your character so they dont have to explain in detail who you are. Generic is what kills the Rping, sure your character looks slightly different that that other random character someone just made due to gear and slight choice differences, but in the end your Elf Warrior is the same as every one elses Elf Warrior.
Give me a game with Scars on my body each time I die, where I can create a background for my character based on quest I am currently doing, or even flashbacks during quests that alters something in the game that I can see directly.
Right now the closest game being made to this is SWTOR, though it is doubtful that beyond the moral choices with NPCs and during quests that the game will be able to determine in a PvP setting if my actions were motivated by good or evil, and that ultimately I dont think any game will really give the full customization that a Larp or Pen and Paper RPGs allow.
Dana seems to be a guy who has been insulted once by roleplayers or something and now tries to take it out on the rest. I'm on a WoW RP server, and while not everyone roleplays, there are plenty that do, there are fun events, occasional random RP and a good friendly atmosphere you won't find on any other server. To bad a sour guy like Dana has to miss out on that.
I have been reading the articles on MMORPG.com for some time but have not feelt the need to log in and give my thoughts for a long long time.
Other people here have all ready given a plethora of reasons why role-playing servers are an excellent choice for some gamers, so I wont go into it. What I want to say is that I am deeply upset by this article, it is the closest thing to a gamer racisim I have ever read on an professional gaming site, terrible! So many of the so called "facts" Dana writes about are just plain wrong and either he just did not do any research into the matter or he is so biast towards RP-servers that he should not have writen this article in the first place, stick to what you know DANA.
ps. sorry about the spelling, english is not my first lang.
This article has done one good thing wether you guys like it or not.
It shows that we as a community can go so many pages without flaming each other when presented with an asshole we all have a common hate against.
It's nice to see the amount so far, and yes, if this article isn't taken down there will be more of us... it's nice to see us 'stand up?' to an uneducated and biased staff member.
Nice one guys =]
This. Exactly my point.
...especially the part about "exceptionally misinformed and unenlightened, Dana.
I prefer rp servers because there always seems to a smaller group or the Ipwnurmom crowd on it and the community is more helpful. Don't really know that many people that talk they they should be in Hamlet. It is also nice to play a game with people who realize it is just a game and not a second job like those loathsome people who raid 4 and 5 days a week.
I guess the author of the article has
a) never played a P&P RP
b) never played a good MMO
c) never been a role player and therefor says there are none
d) a bored life because of writing such bad article
e) no idea on what to write about
I mean if he would have written that's interesting to read or something real about why the role play server are overrun by non-roleplayers. The real problem is that most role players would like an environment like the auther described as fantasy and such environments also exist. No, I don't tell you where, because if I write it here, they will be overrun by a lot of stupid morons.
I have three solutions for the bad RP server in many MMOs:
Everyone has to write a _good_ char story befor getting in game.
A player referring system: You need somone, who lets you in. If you allow stupid people to join you get kicked/banned
A ranking system: If you prove to be able to role play you will be able to do more.
I guess if you pay at least 10 bucks a month a gaming company should be able to maintain good RP servers. If not, they are not worth there money. There are a lot of communities, who are able to do this for free and everyone, who really wants to play good RP should be able to find them.
Another tip: Don't expect good RP in a game, where your job is to kill monsters or players 24/7 and don't expect to be able to join them without a char story or a monthly fee.
IIRC the role play in 'A tale in desert' wasn't too bad.
To all role players: Good luck find your game
Through my ten-plus years of playing MMO's, I have always played on roleplaying servers, because, *gasp*, I actually want to roleplay. In fact, the entire reason I started playing them in the first place was the thought that I could experience another world as my character. Furthermore, over the years I have met plenty of people like myself who spend their time in game roleplaying everything they do and will just not play a game at all if they have no roleplaying servers.
That this article even saw the light of day puts a huge black mark on this website. The author is truly ignorant and offensive.
So was this to you some sort of social experiment?
If so, subtlety would be your friend for future posts.
Dana, I suggest you visit this site http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001645.php?page=2 and look at the data.
The Daedalus Project was a 10 year long survey study of MMO players. The image below gives an idea of what you can find there.
Thank you, Dana!
Immersion talk always annoys me. I can suspend disbelief as well as the next guy, but unless I'm on stage or doing something with friends IRL (including tabletop), the keyboard and monitor keep me separated from my characters and their worlds.
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The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
I have very little to add as most have already covered the various issues with this article in so many posts. This was one of the worst articles filled to the brim with so many "mistruths" its utterly amazing it was even published. This article does a disservice to not only the roleplaying community but the credibility of the writer and MMORPG.com
The article does hit some points and I like the article in general.
You know, I've never been a fan of your writing, but I always got the idea that you were taking the "shock jock" approach to journalism. However, on this type of medium, it sounds more like Jerry Spinger.
You simply try to incite raw emotion and debate - even in it's most unhealthy of forms. Isn't this what the definition of what a troll is?
Out of curiousity, would you accept an article or allow a blog on constructive journalism riddled with opinion from your fellow readers and not your staff? Or would you simply make sure that it never sees the light of day?
LOL! Too bad Dana couldn't have come up with something to distract all those Darkfall debates a few months ago.