Well I don't really think the FF lore is associated with hardcore and they want to cater to their fans so keeping this game casaul will help them in the long run. The fact is casual gameplay caters to more people and they want more paying customers.
Ok Vampry, I am not living in my own little world, I was just stating that I did it, this guy did it, and that guy did it.. HOORAY you can do it to. Also, the next part is why most people like you have a problem.. calling all the other stuff I pointed out that you can do crap? It's not my fault you dont know how to enjoy a game, and by your own words, think that grinding is the only thing in the game. I enjoy many aspects of FF and MMO's. Not just the leveling. Be more open minded and you'll be alright. Now, some of the "crap" as you called it, I added in there because I'm tired of people saying FFXI was completely group based. I'll agree it was alot, but not completely. There were options such as BST. The other stuff I put on there to also point out like I said, that there really is more to an MMO then just grind. Finaly, I put all that "crap" in there to say to people like you, hey, there is/was always plenty to do and SE did a great job.. even for you soloers.. but if it just isnt for you, then move on and stop flaming. There is not, and will likely never be a game that can cater to everyone. Of course SE said they will try to be more casual friendly, I think FFXI was casual freindly if you really wanted it to be. That casual part just had to fit you.. if it didnt, then people give dumb responces like you did. Also, since you brought it up, you said I made an uneducated remark about casual players.. so let me elaborate a little bit of what I was saying. It seems to me that a casual player is looking to be able to play 1 or 2 hours a day and after a short time be able to be at end game and do end game stuff. That is why I said what I said, because if someone hardcore was to play, they would be at end game the day after the game is released. LOL then you tell me your not flaming me after you say I made an uneducated remark.. Lastly, I'm sorry you did not have the skill to fit into FFXI, move on to an easier game like WoW and continue your poke kill level up method. I just plain and simply don't like people like you... trying to attack me when I never made one invalid point, and spoke from my more than 4 years of experience in this particular MMO. I also put my opinion out there... never did I once say.. "OK LISTEN WHAT IM ABOUT TO SAY IS STRICKLY FACTS AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN SAY OTHERWISE" Nope, I shared my experiences, opinions, and gave valid examples and options. So if all you can do after that is bash me, then go screw yourself. Oh, and just a reminder, learn how to enjoy a game.
But then the solo/casual player will still cry around on the forums because he couldnt get to end-game in a day.
It is a never ending cycle and most of it boils down to lazyness and jealousy. Some people need to realize they cant be an elite player due to RL obligations, there is nothing wrong with that. Play it and enjoy it.
its not always layzyness or jealousy, but for some, like people who have kids/family and a full time job dont always have the time to look for/participate or put in the effort it CAN take to get into a party, but at the same still want to be able to enjoy the game. I LOVE to get into partys when I can, but I dont always have the time to; so to ME the solo content is nice to have so that I dont get stuck at low levels while all my friends with out kids or more time to play dont get way past me or make it take me foreeeeeeeever to catch up and play with them at end game.
The problem is this Zaylin. FF XI was not a game for people who had kids/familes and a full time job (well, mostly the kid/families part, I could see someone who worked from 8am to 5 pm then playing FF XI till about 9-10pm). If you made FF XIV more solable, then you will alienate the original fanbase from FFXI. Thus, the game will have to depend on more people like you to fill those empty ranks. And if that failed, then FF XIV will end up being the next EQ2 example.
I'm sorry, but I just don't see the solo/casual player working well with FF XIV if it ends up being based off of FF XI's basic ideals. More solo aspects will kill the group aspect of FF XI.
I beg to differ {in a non rude tone} I played FFXI,lol matter of a fact it was my very first mmo. And at the time I had a full time job wife and kid.Yes I had challanges doing things by my self and leveling,I got into some GRrreAT parties when I had the time.did I complain about FFXI not having enough solo content or being solo freindly ?Nope. I enjoyed the challanges that FFXI had. By all means I would not want it toned down to fit my schedule. But I do agree to make a game so solo friendly that you can get all the uber gear and would never have to group WOULD be lame. Yall who got more time to put in DO deserve to have some better gear,and thats just simple. ya I deserver better gear too, but it will take me longer than the person with more time to put in. hope that clears up some of my statement that was not fleshed out. good discusion
Ah, ok, now I get what you were going at with that discussion.
P.S. You got to play a hardcore group game when you have a full time job and a family? Awesome, I hope to teach my children when I get married to love video games (and hopefully my wife too), that way we can all enjoy playing FF XXV or whatever Final Fantasy MMO game is out at the time.
Well I don't really think the FF lore is associated with hardcore and they want to cater to their fans so keeping this game casaul will help them in the long run. The fact is casual gameplay caters to more people and they want more paying customers.
Not so fast Cyborg. Remember that FF XIV is pretty much the unspoken sequel of FF XI. And remember this. You know how casual players hate forced group gaming that had few solo aspects, took a long time to beat, and had a harsh death punishment? Well, FF XI was exactly that game that casuals would hate. FF XIV is most likely going to try to stick to mostly hardcore aspects in order to draw the original hardcore fanbase in so that FF XIV does has a respectable fanbase for a while (and therefore the game is profiting). What you're saying is technically true, but you're forgetting that this sequel is based off of a hardcore group game, with almost nothing casual. So, if FF XIV was made too casual, then that will scare away the original 500k subscriptions from FF XI, and if the gameplay does not appease the casuals, then the game will tank (like EQ2 before it).
SE will more likely take the safe and profiting idea, and will most likely make FF XIV a hardcore game. Remember, SE said the game would be more casual, but it remains to see just how more casual. Will it become a completely casual game, thus taking a serious marketing risk by alienating the original FF XI crowd and possibly turning off the casuals because the gameplay ends up sucking? Or will it remain mostly hardcore, thus the safe and profiting option is taken and the game still ends up being hardcore even though a few casual aspects was inserted that wasn't really noticable.
Alright, I'm going to put an end to all this solo wishing with facts.
1. BST. If you wanted to play the game on a solo job, SE gave you BST. You never needed anyone else to level up. THAT IS SOLO FRIENDLY. You didn't even have to play it all the time because SE let you change jobs whenever you wanted.. so play BST if you don't got much time.. play another job when you got time to party.
2. RDM. If you are familiar with FFXI, I'm sure you have seen the soloing RDM's can do on utube. Pretty much limitless with some skill and proper use of the job.
3. NIN. I had a level 75 NIN when I quit FFXI. I know off first hand experience that a decently geared NIN could solo just about any EM or T mob, at any level. I mean they barly ever hit you because of your high evasion, and if they did shadows absorbed it.. just had to make sure you actually used your debuffs and everything properly. Yes it could get expensive if you did this all the way to 75, and yes it would be slower and riskier, but that is what you people are asking for.. a way to solo even if it means less reward.
4. BLM. God, I can remember a BLM in my LS that would kill those grub thingies that were very weak to magic and get up to a chain 5 all day by himself. Even one time I remember him saying that he used his exp ring and at chain 5 got over 700 exp for that one fight. Thats as good/better than alot of exp parties of 6 members. There was alot of down time, but it worked. I seen alot of BLM there doing that everyday actually.
5. THF. THF is basically the same as NIN, with even higher evasion. The buffs probly wouldnt stick but with the proper mobs, DC and EM maybe some T mobs for them.
Eh, I don't feel like typing anymore.. but basically just about any job can solo the proper mobs throughout the game and get some good exp.. obvious ones that are better at this though. You just had to put extra work into finding mobs that were your level and do your homework on your job, and what mobs you can defeat the easiest.
So, at this point I don't care what everyone says.. people are not wanting to be able to go out and solo when they can't get a party even if it is less rewarding like they are saying. What you want is a completely soloable game. SE is not going to make a completely soloable game, sorry about your luck. As for the statement "more casual friendly" sure there may be a few things to keep you busy and even make it more realistic to level til level 20ish solo, but for you people that keep thinking you are going to get into FFXIV and solo BETTER than FFXI provided.. your going to be disapointed.
Finaly, if you can't prove me wrong about the soloing if FFXI (which you can't because I only stated facts, or about SE not going to put more "solo" content in (which you can't because there is no more info onthe subject currently), then stop comparing "casual friendly" to "soloability". Add some thoughts on what type of casual content would be good.
Originally posted by Nutteralex It's not a contradiction, you'd still be playing as a team, just a smaller team to give more parties. And yes I know you can play 3-5 member parties, but I'm not really intrested in fighting something that's not going to give me a lot of exp for a lengthy time, and then have to rest for a few minutes after. You can't disagree that FFXI had a lot of downtime and when playing it sometimes it felt like a huge waste of time, as much as I loved it. It was alright though because when looking for a party or something I'd just do homework until I got an invite.
What I'm saying is that it didn't matter how big your party was, you had to choose the right mob. So partying with 3-5 members happened and it happened often. You get less exp compared to killing the mob yourself, yes. And you got less exp than killing the hardest mob killable at your level as well. But what people don't understand is that while the exp is less, having more members and killing lesser mobs at a higher rate generates more exp than the mob that takes 5 minutes to kill and having to rest anyway.
I mean think about it. if every monster in the area is Even Match (100 exp), one person will have to rest after each fight. If it's two people, they can take out two before resting, but lose about 25 exp per kill, except taking out these consecutively provides bonuses to compensate. If it's three people, they should probably move on to Toughs for about 25 more exp than their previous mark, with a better exp chain bonus.
Unless you had refresh, which came about midway through the game and only for whm unless you had rdm in the party or had items/ethers (most people didn't) you rested - period. If only for the mages to recover MP. Just because you're killing a mob that gives ~200 exp, that doesn't mean a whole lot when you consider how dangerous it is. That's part of the fun, but dieing costs exp, which is what soloers complain about. In the time it takes to rest, a smaller party taking out the appropriate marks is smarter than the full party taking on the biggest baddie they can. They're killing faster and getting bigger chains with less downtime.
That's how it worked for me anyway. I would duo a lot and meet people along the way with nothing better to do. Many times I've completely skipped Valkurm Dunes, Qufim AND Kazham by being in smaller parties.
I saw an interesting concept that SE talked about with the new system of the original role based system from FF XI. SE plans to do something called a sphere grid, and the weapon/equipment you wear can help determine your "role." In my opinion, this sounds alot like FF XII. You could work on any skills you wanted with a character, and the weapon/equipment did help determine your role, but those weapons could allow someone to do unorthodox "roles." In FF XII, I tried a rather unusual setup. I armed one of my support roles characters (I hooked up Penelo with White, Green and Arcane Magic) with a katana, a weapon that was powered by magic power. This made Penlo strangely powerful at close range if the enemy had weak mag. def., but she was still technically a support healer/buffer. In other words, imagine a white magic caster that could deal incredible tank damage. If the sphere grid and weapon/equipment ideas are derived from FF XII, I think the developers found the way to replace the old role system with a new system that still encourages role playing but gives players better customization (like my white mage example that could deal tremendous tank damage). The potential problem here is that this type of customization might lead to more solo aspects, so to avoid that, the enemies have to eventually become so powerful that eventually you will have to party with others to survive. Also, in this grid system, working on a particular magic would benefit you with powerful spells of that type. So just because a tanker could learn semi-powerful white magic won't mean it will be good, a person that worked completely towards white magic would be benefitted with powerful white magic spells (and potential benefits, like increased healing from white magic spells if you worked so far into it). Therefore, you could technically create a "jack of all trades" character that's good, but a person that specializes in a particular area will become very powerful on those particular areas. This is speculation however. But if FF XIV plans on using FF XII's methods of customization, that does sound quite interesting.
The Sphere Grid was Final Fantasy X. It had locks to unlock before you could venture into other areas of abilites that strayed form the main character's role. FFXII had a less interesting kind of "board" where you started in a particular area and, if you wanted something else for that character, would just migrate to the appropriate area one skill at a time.
I think a combination of these would be the most applicable for Final Fantasy XIV. Where the sphere grid started off and locked a character within a certain class, perhaps in XIV the locks will be in place of tiers of spell and ability strength, and higher level locks in place of abilities that apply to other job classes. Thinking about this now, this is exactly what I'd like to see:
You choose your starting job and jump into it. Sometime at about lv.20 you're given the option to unlock abilities that further compliment your style of play. It doesn't cost points, like exp or ap, but instead it's a quest to prove that you're current job is capable. 20 is the "level" at which you can accept the quest, but the quest must be solo'd (no lv.75's doing it for you). In DDO there are dungeons that require you to complete without any help whatsoever - no duos, no signal pearl. This could be the proof that you know how to do your job correctly, and it would be based on what starting path you chose at time. It's not until after completing this inital quest that you can change jobs for the first time, and for each job you would have to do a similar quest - changing jobs will cancel that quest. So you're proving yourself with every new job.
Doing quests for each new skill you want might be an idea, but that might be really tedious. Maybe a similar option might be a good idea for a soloability aspect, since it would take a long ass time, but scratch that...
So it's the locks that are quested to unbreak and pull from other job ability sets in a similar way to the limit breaks or the crafting guild rank advancements. There's another idea I posted on another forum that I'll copy & paste here about classes having evolutionary tiers...
Edit: Evolutionary tiers instead of level caps. They might add different PUP models and call that class "machinist / engineer" or tweak ninja and call it "assassin". Another idea is having the job classes develop by evolutionary tier; thief > ninja > assassin. This could be an alternative to the level caps, since we don't know at this point how character development will progress. This way, whatever tier your party was, you could look for other members of the same tier. This would mean a simpler party search system. however levels are presented in XIV, these players could sync and learn abilities within their tier(s) until they chose to advance. If every job has three tiers it would be 1-25, 26-50, 51-75.
So, if you're looking for a thief, ninja, or assassin, you know he's within those levels, respectively.
Ok Vampry, I am not living in my own little world, I was just stating that I did it, this guy did it, and that guy did it.. HOORAY you can do it to. Also, the next part is why most people like you have a problem.. calling all the other stuff I pointed out that you can do crap? It's not my fault you dont know how to enjoy a game, and by your own words, think that grinding is the only thing in the game. I enjoy many aspects of FF and MMO's. Not just the leveling. Be more open minded and you'll be alright. Now, some of the "crap" as you called it, I added in there because I'm tired of people saying FFXI was completely group based. I'll agree it was alot, but not completely. There were options such as BST. The other stuff I put on there to also point out like I said, that there really is more to an MMO then just grind. Finaly, I put all that "crap" in there to say to people like you, hey, there is/was always plenty to do and SE did a great job.. even for you soloers.. but if it just isnt for you, then move on and stop flaming. There is not, and will likely never be a game that can cater to everyone. Of course SE said they will try to be more casual friendly, I think FFXI was casual freindly if you really wanted it to be. That casual part just had to fit you.. if it didnt, then people give dumb responces like you did. Also, since you brought it up, you said I made an uneducated remark about casual players.. so let me elaborate a little bit of what I was saying. It seems to me that a casual player is looking to be able to play 1 or 2 hours a day and after a short time be able to be at end game and do end game stuff. That is why I said what I said, because if someone hardcore was to play, they would be at end game the day after the game is released. LOL then you tell me your not flaming me after you say I made an uneducated remark.. Lastly, I'm sorry you did not have the skill to fit into FFXI, move on to an easier game like WoW and continue your poke kill level up method. I just plain and simply don't like people like you... trying to attack me when I never made one invalid point, and spoke from my more than 4 years of experience in this particular MMO. I also put my opinion out there... never did I once say.. "OK LISTEN WHAT IM ABOUT TO SAY IS STRICKLY FACTS AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN SAY OTHERWISE" Nope, I shared my experiences, opinions, and gave valid examples and options. So if all you can do after that is bash me, then go screw yourself. Oh, and just a reminder, learn how to enjoy a game.
But then the solo/casual player will still cry around on the forums because he couldnt get to end-game in a day.
It is a never ending cycle and most of it boils down to lazyness and jealousy. Some people need to realize they cant be an elite player due to RL obligations, there is nothing wrong with that. Play it and enjoy it.
its not always layzyness or jealousy, but for some, like people who have kids/family and a full time job dont always have the time to look for/participate or put in the effort it CAN take to get into a party, but at the same still want to be able to enjoy the game. I LOVE to get into partys when I can, but I dont always have the time to; so to ME the solo content is nice to have so that I dont get stuck at low levels while all my friends with out kids or more time to play dont get way past me or make it take me foreeeeeeeever to catch up and play with them at end game.
The problem is this Zaylin. FF XI was not a game for people who had kids/familes and a full time job (well, mostly the kid/families part, I could see someone who worked from 8am to 5 pm then playing FF XI till about 9-10pm). If you made FF XIV more solable, then you will alienate the original fanbase from FFXI. Thus, the game will have to depend on more people like you to fill those empty ranks. And if that failed, then FF XIV will end up being the next EQ2 example.
I'm sorry, but I just don't see the solo/casual player working well with FF XIV if it ends up being based off of FF XI's basic ideals. More solo aspects will kill the group aspect of FF XI.
I beg to differ {in a non rude tone} I played FFXI,lol matter of a fact it was my very first mmo. And at the time I had a full time job wife and kid.Yes I had challanges doing things by my self and leveling,I got into some GRrreAT parties when I had the time.did I complain about FFXI not having enough solo content or being solo freindly ?Nope. I enjoyed the challanges that FFXI had. By all means I would not want it toned down to fit my schedule. But I do agree to make a game so solo friendly that you can get all the uber gear and would never have to group WOULD be lame. Yall who got more time to put in DO deserve to have some better gear,and thats just simple. ya I deserver better gear too, but it will take me longer than the person with more time to put in. hope that clears up some of my statement that was not fleshed out. good discusion
Ah, ok, now I get what you were going at with that discussion.
P.S. You got to play a hardcore group game when you have a full time job and a family? Awesome, I hope to teach my children when I get married to love video games (and hopefully my wife too), that way we can all enjoy playing FF XXV or whatever Final Fantasy MMO game is out at the time.
Well there were days I had off and my wife would be nice enough to take care of our child at the time for the day/fer a while to let her hard wokring man enjoy some GOOD clean FUN game time, as she knew that I relished the chance to get into a party but did not always have the time.I actually got her into playing as well.only had one pc at the time though :P,and loved the game as well.
Well, thanks to Masterpoe for that sticky, we now have a huge source of information to help us all out keep up to date on FF XIV news (for those who never heard of Google anyhow). Now, I was quite excited to read some of those interview and what the devs were going to do with FF XIV. Then I read them, and almost choked (literately, I was eating a fish stick). I thought at first that the devs simply said "more casual aspects" just to try to draw the casual crowd into a game that ended up being as hardcore as FF XI, but reading those various sources, I am now scared. It seems that SE is not only trying to put casual aspects inside the game, but it looks like SE is actually trying to make FF XIV completely solable!!!
I don't have to state why this could be potentially very bad, just read the OP of this thread.
But I realize that I never did expand on the EQ2 situation that I compare the possibilities of FF XIV to.
EQ2 was a sequel of a hardcore game that was mostly about grouping (you could solo, but grouping had more advantages). The developers wanted to attract more people inside the sequel, and realized that although they had gotten the hardcore grouper's attention, they had no attention whatsoever from the casuals. Thinking of making more money rather than reviewing the idea better, they decided to make EQ2 a more casual game. A game that would have both group and solo elements (you could "beat" the game with both playstyles), and would become more friendly to the casuals. It looked like a huge market success, right? WRONG. EQ2 was a complete turnoff to the EQ fanbase that hated the casual sequel, and instead stook to EQ1. Meanwhile, the gameplay wasn't enough to attract enough casuals, so EQ2 tanked. It alientated the hardcore fanbase from the prequel EQ1, and it ended up not attracting enough casuals.
If you put A and B together, history shows that when you make a casual-based sequel off of a game that was hardcore group based, you end up with a failure. The exception is that it is possible that FF XIV could attract enough casuals, in which case FF XIV becomes a completely casual game. The problem here is that SE announced that they would only have a small team monitor FF XI, so basically no new expansions and only neccessary patches. In other words, they're putting FF XI on life support. The main issue here isn't that FF XIV becomes a casual game, it's that FF XIV could potentially die and become a market failure if the game alienates the hardcores and doesn't attract enough casuals. Meanwhile, all you guys at FF XI hoping to see a new and improved sequel of the game you loved won't happen.
Its really a simple concept for SE (I saw someone else pointed it out).
If they make a FFXIV based off FFXI concepts and ideals then it will be a successfull and around for many years to come. SE DOES have enough current and former FFXI fans, and a large enough fan base that they do not need the Solo'ers/ super casuals. The downside to this is that FFXI will go bye bye, because people will make the jump.
If they cater to much to the casuals and solo'ers then they will loose a lot of their fan base. SE would take the risk of FFXIV joining the ranks of AoC and WAR. Big for a few months then falls off the radar. Every game thats tried to be like WoW has crashed and burnt I dont know why they would want to risk it. The upside is that FFXI would not die.
I personally think they will stick with their fans. I hope they realize that Soloers just hop from MMO to MMO. Once the next MMO after FFXIV comes out the solo crowd will be gone. They have no desire to support a game for the long run .
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
They said that both styles of play will be accepted. it's almost like they're making two games, I highly doubt they will ditch the FFXI community because in an interview I watched they said that they took ideas directly from the community. Maybe they're making soloing possibly but not as rewarding as doing it as a group. If you can get small exp from soloing while I look for a party, I bring on that idea. Really I'm going to stop researching and pondering this game for a few months because it's going to make me go crazy.
Its really a simple concept for SE (I saw someone else pointed it out). If they make a FFXIV based off FFXI concepts and ideals then it will be a successfull and around for many years to come. SE DOES have enough current and former FFXI fans, and a large enough fan base that they do not need the Solo'ers/ super casuals. The downside to this is that FFXI will go bye bye, because people will make the jump. If they cater to much to the casuals and solo'ers then they will loose a lot of their fan base. SE would take the risk of FFXIV joining the ranks of AoC and WAR. Big for a few months then falls off the radar. Every game thats tried to be like WoW has crashed and burnt I dont know why they would want to risk it. The upside is that FFXI would not die. I personally think they will stick with their fans. I hope they realize that Soloers just hop from MMO to MMO. Once the next MMO after FFXIV comes out the solo crowd will be gone. They have no desire to support a game for the long run .
To avoid a nasty "you don't understand soloers" post, I will state this. Soloers do not neccessarily jump from game to game. I've heard of "hardcore soloers" who are people that do solo in their game, but they are dedicated to it. However, they are a minority compared to the casual soloers who do indeed jump from game to game often.
This also brings something up that I wish to talk about.
Although it hasn't been announced yet, it's not to predict that FF XIV will be a subscription game. Usually, P2P games want dedicated fans that are willing to spend alot of time and money to play the game. So, I would like to point out another reason why FF XIV will probably end up being mostly hardcore.
1. Casual gamers are not neccessarily dedicated gamers. In fact, they're the type that moves around from game to game, while hardcores are dedicated to the game they play. Now, of course you will get dedicated casual gamers (WOW is a huge example of this), and they are a majority. But still, casual gamers do not always dedicate themselves to a game, they usually float around. This is not a crowd you would want for a P2P game, especially if the sequel ends up retaining the original mechanics of FF XIV.
2. Soloists also fall into that idea that they aren't always dedicated to a game (especially if grouping is the main aspect of the game the soloist happens to be playing). Also, since FF XIV will most likely be hardcore to entice the FF XI crowd, solo aspects will most likely suck compared to grouping in the game. This is speculation, since we do not know what the solo aspects will be in the game, but if FF XIV retains the mechanics and "feel" of FF XI, it will probably not be solo friendly. So, if this were to happen, then we really can't depend on soloers to be part of the FF XIV crowd.
Alright, I'm going to put an end to all this solo wishing with facts. 1. BST. If you wanted to play the game on a solo job, SE gave you BST. You never needed anyone else to level up. THAT IS SOLO FRIENDLY. You didn't even have to play it all the time because SE let you change jobs whenever you wanted.. so play BST if you don't got much time.. play another job when you got time to party. 2. RDM. If you are familiar with FFXI, I'm sure you have seen the soloing RDM's can do on utube. Pretty much limitless with some skill and proper use of the job. 3. NIN. I had a level 75 NIN when I quit FFXI. I know off first hand experience that a decently geared NIN could solo just about any EM or T mob, at any level. I mean they barly ever hit you because of your high evasion, and if they did shadows absorbed it.. just had to make sure you actually used your debuffs and everything properly. Yes it could get expensive if you did this all the way to 75, and yes it would be slower and riskier, but that is what you people are asking for.. a way to solo even if it means less reward. 4. BLM. God, I can remember a BLM in my LS that would kill those grub thingies that were very weak to magic and get up to a chain 5 all day by himself. Even one time I remember him saying that he used his exp ring and at chain 5 got over 700 exp for that one fight. Thats as good/better than alot of exp parties of 6 members. There was alot of down time, but it worked. I seen alot of BLM there doing that everyday actually. 5. THF. THF is basically the same as NIN, with even higher evasion. The buffs probly wouldnt stick but with the proper mobs, DC and EM maybe some T mobs for them. Eh, I don't feel like typing anymore.. but basically just about any job can solo the proper mobs throughout the game and get some good exp.. obvious ones that are better at this though. You just had to put extra work into finding mobs that were your level and do your homework on your job, and what mobs you can defeat the easiest. So, at this point I don't care what everyone says.. people are not wanting to be able to go out and solo when they can't get a party even if it is less rewarding like they are saying. What you want is a completely soloable game. SE is not going to make a completely soloable game, sorry about your luck. As for the statement "more casual friendly" sure there may be a few things to keep you busy and even make it more realistic to level til level 20ish solo, but for you people that keep thinking you are going to get into FFXIV and solo BETTER than FFXI provided.. your going to be disapointed. Finaly, if you can't prove me wrong about the soloing if FFXI (which you can't because I only stated facts, or about SE not going to put more "solo" content in (which you can't because there is no more info onthe subject currently), then stop comparing "casual friendly" to "soloability". Add some thoughts on what type of casual content would be good.
Yes I agree that they can solo... but...
Those soloing is only possible when you at least have some high lvl character... It's pretty much impossible for a newbies.
1. BST - it's not available from the beginning, you have to unlock it first.... what was lvl req. to unlock? can't remember clearly.
2. RDM - it's good, yeah can solo... still, this is only for the decent lvl RDMs... (dunno why they solo... they can find party a lot easier than other class)
3. NIN - another class that need to be unlocked, plus when i was playing... NIN's shadow scroll (Ichi) was quite expensive (you could get it with quest thou), plus you need tools(powder?) to spam that shadow skill and that also need to be purchased... Also, you can't solo well with just an Ichi spell, you also need Ni to be able to solo...
4 BLM & THF - pretty much same as RDM, they are not that good and not solo-able till... what lvl 50-ish? 60-ish?
Your version of solo is for the ones that already reached an end game and has steady income (gil)... you left out other details that comes with soloing, like specific subjobs, equips, food and etc.
FFXI is very hard game for a brand new beginner compare to other MMOs... soloing is pretty much not a good idea for a beginner.
No man, your dead wrong, and you missed the point of my post. I simply wanted to point out that soloing was possible, because people keep saying "I don't care if its hard and less rewarding, I just don't to sit in Jeuno all day without the option to solo while I wait for a party". So I made it 100% clear that FFXI was exactly this way already.
Your also wrong about the jobs. Yes, for BST you need to be level 30 to unlock it.. but what does it matter, solo your way there and unlock it... besides your going to need a subjob anyway, so level which ever you chose to use as your sub and get it to 30. Then your set.
As for NIN. Um... I do believe I said "yes, it would be expensive". I would also like to point out that I don't care which way you go with NIN, your going to HAVE to get utsusemi: ichi and ni... solo or grouping... so your point is void.
For BLM, all you really need for BLM to solo is capped abilities, some decent gear and all the spells. Again, your going to need all of this whether you solo or go grouped anyway. Sleep, bind, debuff, nuke... rinse and repeat.... sleep and bind being the main spells that allow BLM to solo, and they come pretty early on... so again, your wrong.
Again I can go on, but I've made my point. Soloing was possible in FFXI, I'm sorry, but it was.
3 out of all the classes being able to solo is not soloability. Soloability is the ability of any class to solo to an extent. That is what I believe SE plans to do with the game. They plan to make every class be able to solo, but again they do put an emphasis that grouping will be more rewarding.
if they kept it the same as ffxi people wouldn't bother porting over, and new players would hate it because it'd be tedious and annoying to do anything with.
3 out of all the classes being able to solo is not soloability. Soloability is the ability of any class to solo to an extent. That is what I believe SE plans to do with the game. They plan to make every class be able to solo, but again they do put an emphasis that grouping will be more rewarding.
Every mmo I've played any class could solo, it might take longer but I could solo with any class. so when you say a class doesn't have soloability what do you mean exactly?
Every class should be able to take on the same level mob. Killing rabbits or helpless creatures doesn't equal soloability. If you take for instance a dd, a healer, and a tank and put them by themselves they should each be able to take on an enemy equally or close to equally of course with each having it's own strength. DD should be able to kill something fast with more downtime for resting. Tank should be able to take things down slowly with minimal dmg. and the healer should be able to kill something while occasionally healing him/herself.
* In most mmo's any class can solo very well. This was not the case with ffxi and this is one of the major things that SE plans to fix I believe
No man, your dead wrong, and you missed the point of my post. I simply wanted to point out that soloing was possible, because people keep saying "I don't care if its hard and less rewarding, I just don't to sit in Jeuno all day without the option to solo while I wait for a party". So I made it 100% clear that FFXI was exactly this way already.
Your also wrong about the jobs. Yes, for BST you need to be level 30 to unlock it.. but what does it matter, solo your way there and unlock it... besides your going to need a subjob anyway, so level which ever you chose to use as your sub and get it to 30. Then your set.
As for NIN. Um... I do believe I said "yes, it would be expensive". I would also like to point out that I don't care which way you go with NIN, your going to HAVE to get utsusemi: ichi and ni... solo or grouping... so your point is void.
For BLM, all you really need for BLM to solo is capped abilities, some decent gear and all the spells. Again, your going to need all of this whether you solo or go grouped anyway. Sleep, bind, debuff, nuke... rinse and repeat.... sleep and bind being the main spells that allow BLM to solo, and they come pretty early on... so again, your wrong.
Again I can go on, but I've made my point. Soloing was possible in FFXI, I'm sorry, but it was.
Yes, you are right about soloing, they can solo... i agree., but since you know quite a lot of soloing...
Can you tell little more about when they can start solo?
It's no-brainer that you can solo with anything if your lvl is high and has all abilities, but your soloing is based on character with high lvl.... my question is... can you reach high enough lvl via soloing? from lvl 20?
if they kept it the same as ffxi people wouldn't bother porting over, and new players would hate it because it'd be tedious and annoying to do anything with.
Not so fast Valentina. This goes back to my "SOCOM example" I said to someone on a previous post.
Think of it this way. When SOCOM2 came out, it was basically just an enhanced version of the first SOCOM game. So why port over and play the new game? It was simply an improved version of what you loved originally, right? Well, SOCOM2 sold out majorly, still actually has a handful of people playing, and basically showed that new and improved sequels of games can sell. Besides, FF XIV won't be completely similar. They're introducing a sphere grid idea that probably will copy FF X's idea, and SE said that the game will be supposedly more casual than before (although read the previous posts to see why FF XIV will mostly likely remain hardcore and have stronger group aspects than solo aspects). So, I don't think porting over to a new and (hopefully) improved version of FF XI will be tedious and annoying, there's probably thousands of people already watching to see when FF XIV will come out.
if they kept it the same as ffxi people wouldn't bother porting over, and new players would hate it because it'd be tedious and annoying to do anything with.
Sure some would stay with ffxi but a major # would leave.
BTW I think I can speak for anyone who loved FFXI when I say that the FFXI fans do not think its tedious or annoying.
I even think if FFXIV was more like FFXI that it could gain some of the old EQ fans as well.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
The thing that sets FFXI aside from other games in the genre is the grinding is actually FUN. Leveling in groups is fun as well, especially with the renkeis; I used to be entertained for hours straight with a light or darkness renkei every minute. I for one have a FFXI account with maxed chars, however I have ended up shelving it til the release of XIV, at which point I will play FFXIV, of course. I respect Square enix greatly, and have faith that they will not save in to the casual MMO market style, and instead keep a few options for leveling solo, but with the greatest exp and rewards being reserved for group play, hopefully at the 10+ players level. In short, I feel that if they casualized the game, it would actually cause it to fail.
No man, your dead wrong, and you missed the point of my post. I simply wanted to point out that soloing was possible, because people keep saying "I don't care if its hard and less rewarding, I just don't to sit in Jeuno all day without the option to solo while I wait for a party". So I made it 100% clear that FFXI was exactly this way already.
Your also wrong about the jobs. Yes, for BST you need to be level 30 to unlock it.. but what does it matter, solo your way there and unlock it... besides your going to need a subjob anyway, so level which ever you chose to use as your sub and get it to 30. Then your set.
As for NIN. Um... I do believe I said "yes, it would be expensive". I would also like to point out that I don't care which way you go with NIN, your going to HAVE to get utsusemi: ichi and ni... solo or grouping... so your point is void.
For BLM, all you really need for BLM to solo is capped abilities, some decent gear and all the spells. Again, your going to need all of this whether you solo or go grouped anyway. Sleep, bind, debuff, nuke... rinse and repeat.... sleep and bind being the main spells that allow BLM to solo, and they come pretty early on... so again, your wrong.
Again I can go on, but I've made my point. Soloing was possible in FFXI, I'm sorry, but it was.
Yes, you are right about soloing, they can solo... i agree., but since you know quite a lot of soloing...
Can you tell little more about when they can start solo?
It's no-brainer that you can solo with anything if your lvl is high and has all abilities, but your soloing is based on character with high lvl.... my question is... can you reach high enough lvl via soloing? from lvl 20?
Please read the post before you make comments. I actually originaly posted 5 jobs in FFXI that were soloable.. and stated that I could go on... but I wasnt gonna sit there and go through every job. I made my point.
Soloing was not just high end. At any level, any job could solo, given the fact that you actually know how to play your job, and fight mobs that are weak to your job type. Now this is the part that for some reason it seems you cannot understand. YOU WILL NOT GAIN A BILLION EXP IN AN HOUR. IT WILL NOT BE AS FAST AS LEVELING IN A PARTY. IT WILL BE HARD. IT WILL BE RISKY. IT WILL BE DANGEROUS. THE REWARD WILL NOT BE GREAT FOR THE MOST PART. IT WILL BE TIME COMSUMING. IT IS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now you answer me a question or two. First, why do people want a completely soloable MMORPG? I mean, I don't play MMORPG's to play by myself, it just don't make sense. Now I can see wanting to have the ability to escape and go out by yourself once in awhile, or when there is nothing else to do.. but that option was provided. The truth is that it seems people keep saying this is all they want, but really they want more. People did not solo in FFXI because it was alot less rewarding and everything else I stated above than grouping.. so people just overlooked it. All these people really want is "easy".
Second, why do people keep confusing "casual friendly" with "soloability". To me, "casual friendly" means that there will be more quests to do that are more rewarding. Or maybe they will not make us do genkais. Maybe they will simply impliment more ideas in the game that people can get involved in that will give them something to do when they log on, and it won't take along time to do a "run" of whatever this may be. "Soloability" means that everyone can take every job and level it to level cap just about as fast... or as fast as people that decide to group up to make parties. So again, why is everyone confusing the two?
My definition of soloability is the ability to solo for a couple of hours and get something done. Soloability and Casual friendly actually go hand in hand. The casual player can only play a couple of hours or so a night and won't be able to dedicate himself to a group. Because he/she cannot dedicate himself to a group he will have to solo. While soloing he will want to accomplish something or he will get disgusted and quit the game. In FFXI if you were to solo it would take you 5 times longer to level than if you were in a group if not longer. Obviously in a party you should get about 2 to 3 times the experience as when you solo, but not 5+ times the amount. This does not equal soloability. You might as well sit in Jeuno for an hour and then join a group for just an hour if that's the case. So I am sure that SE will basically just adjust the amount of progression a player can make on his/her own. With all of that said I am a hardcore player and usually put in several hours in one day. I am a strong believer in grouping, however it is nice to have the option of soloing from time to time.
I'm sorry, I just don't agree. I know when I was level 43ish on my NIN, I went out soloing because I wanted to have fun, I do lots of things like that. I can remember fighting EM to T mobs and made around 2 - 2.5k an hour exp. thats not bad. The BLM I was telling you about that loved to solo.. he could get 5-6k an hour. Just because you didn't put the effort into it.. or have the skills and knowledge to do it, does not mean it wasn't true or possible.
If soloers want to play MMORPG's, which still don't make sense to me.. then they can go find some other game to play... leave FFXI to the real gamers . Furthermore.. I don't want a bunch of people that have soloed all the way to "level cap" getting to end game and not knowing what the hell they are doing. Besides, end game gets crowed as it is. I'd actually prefer that SE made it harded or longer for people to make it to end game :P
I went from a brand new account and got to lvl 55 in 2 weeks. I believe I have the skill. All I'm saying is that other people should be able to play casually and feel accomplished. I have a maxed character with all jobs, but that isn't important. It's just an opinion. No need to attack my "skills" lol.. Off to the store with my gf now, I'll be back on to reply in a couple hours. Not trying to attack anyone just trying to stick up for the people that don't have the time to play games like I do.
Comments
Well I don't really think the FF lore is associated with hardcore and they want to cater to their fans so keeping this game casaul will help them in the long run. The fact is casual gameplay caters to more people and they want more paying customers.
Trolls = Hardcore
Fanbois = Carebears
The only posts I read in threads are my own.
But then the solo/casual player will still cry around on the forums because he couldnt get to end-game in a day.
It is a never ending cycle and most of it boils down to lazyness and jealousy. Some people need to realize they cant be an elite player due to RL obligations, there is nothing wrong with that. Play it and enjoy it.
its not always layzyness or jealousy, but for some, like people who have kids/family and a full time job dont always have the time to look for/participate or put in the effort it CAN take to get into a party, but at the same still want to be able to enjoy the game. I LOVE to get into partys when I can, but I dont always have the time to; so to ME the solo content is nice to have so that I dont get stuck at low levels while all my friends with out kids or more time to play dont get way past me or make it take me foreeeeeeeever to catch up and play with them at end game.
The problem is this Zaylin. FF XI was not a game for people who had kids/familes and a full time job (well, mostly the kid/families part, I could see someone who worked from 8am to 5 pm then playing FF XI till about 9-10pm). If you made FF XIV more solable, then you will alienate the original fanbase from FFXI. Thus, the game will have to depend on more people like you to fill those empty ranks. And if that failed, then FF XIV will end up being the next EQ2 example.
I'm sorry, but I just don't see the solo/casual player working well with FF XIV if it ends up being based off of FF XI's basic ideals. More solo aspects will kill the group aspect of FF XI.
I beg to differ {in a non rude tone} I played FFXI,lol matter of a fact it was my very first mmo. And at the time I had a full time job wife and kid.Yes I had challanges doing things by my self and leveling,I got into some GRrreAT parties when I had the time.did I complain about FFXI not having enough solo content or being solo freindly ?Nope. I enjoyed the challanges that FFXI had. By all means I would not want it toned down to fit my schedule. But I do agree to make a game so solo friendly that you can get all the uber gear and would never have to group WOULD be lame. Yall who got more time to put in DO deserve to have some better gear,and thats just simple. ya I deserver better gear too, but it will take me longer than the person with more time to put in. hope that clears up some of my statement that was not fleshed out.
good discusion 
Ah, ok, now I get what you were going at with that discussion.
P.S. You got to play a hardcore group game when you have a full time job and a family? Awesome, I hope to teach my children when I get married to love video games (and hopefully my wife too), that way we can all enjoy playing FF XXV or whatever Final Fantasy MMO game is out at the time.
Not so fast Cyborg. Remember that FF XIV is pretty much the unspoken sequel of FF XI. And remember this. You know how casual players hate forced group gaming that had few solo aspects, took a long time to beat, and had a harsh death punishment? Well, FF XI was exactly that game that casuals would hate. FF XIV is most likely going to try to stick to mostly hardcore aspects in order to draw the original hardcore fanbase in so that FF XIV does has a respectable fanbase for a while (and therefore the game is profiting). What you're saying is technically true, but you're forgetting that this sequel is based off of a hardcore group game, with almost nothing casual. So, if FF XIV was made too casual, then that will scare away the original 500k subscriptions from FF XI, and if the gameplay does not appease the casuals, then the game will tank (like EQ2 before it).
SE will more likely take the safe and profiting idea, and will most likely make FF XIV a hardcore game. Remember, SE said the game would be more casual, but it remains to see just how more casual. Will it become a completely casual game, thus taking a serious marketing risk by alienating the original FF XI crowd and possibly turning off the casuals because the gameplay ends up sucking? Or will it remain mostly hardcore, thus the safe and profiting option is taken and the game still ends up being hardcore even though a few casual aspects was inserted that wasn't really noticable.
Alright, I'm going to put an end to all this solo wishing with facts.
1. BST. If you wanted to play the game on a solo job, SE gave you BST. You never needed anyone else to level up. THAT IS SOLO FRIENDLY. You didn't even have to play it all the time because SE let you change jobs whenever you wanted.. so play BST if you don't got much time.. play another job when you got time to party.
2. RDM. If you are familiar with FFXI, I'm sure you have seen the soloing RDM's can do on utube. Pretty much limitless with some skill and proper use of the job.
3. NIN. I had a level 75 NIN when I quit FFXI. I know off first hand experience that a decently geared NIN could solo just about any EM or T mob, at any level. I mean they barly ever hit you because of your high evasion, and if they did shadows absorbed it.. just had to make sure you actually used your debuffs and everything properly. Yes it could get expensive if you did this all the way to 75, and yes it would be slower and riskier, but that is what you people are asking for.. a way to solo even if it means less reward.
4. BLM. God, I can remember a BLM in my LS that would kill those grub thingies that were very weak to magic and get up to a chain 5 all day by himself. Even one time I remember him saying that he used his exp ring and at chain 5 got over 700 exp for that one fight. Thats as good/better than alot of exp parties of 6 members. There was alot of down time, but it worked. I seen alot of BLM there doing that everyday actually.
5. THF. THF is basically the same as NIN, with even higher evasion. The buffs probly wouldnt stick but with the proper mobs, DC and EM maybe some T mobs for them.
Eh, I don't feel like typing anymore.. but basically just about any job can solo the proper mobs throughout the game and get some good exp.. obvious ones that are better at this though. You just had to put extra work into finding mobs that were your level and do your homework on your job, and what mobs you can defeat the easiest.
So, at this point I don't care what everyone says.. people are not wanting to be able to go out and solo when they can't get a party even if it is less rewarding like they are saying. What you want is a completely soloable game. SE is not going to make a completely soloable game, sorry about your luck. As for the statement "more casual friendly" sure there may be a few things to keep you busy and even make it more realistic to level til level 20ish solo, but for you people that keep thinking you are going to get into FFXIV and solo BETTER than FFXI provided.. your going to be disapointed.
Finaly, if you can't prove me wrong about the soloing if FFXI (which you can't because I only stated facts, or about SE not going to put more "solo" content in (which you can't because there is no more info onthe subject currently), then stop comparing "casual friendly" to "soloability". Add some thoughts on what type of casual content would be good.
What I'm saying is that it didn't matter how big your party was, you had to choose the right mob. So partying with 3-5 members happened and it happened often. You get less exp compared to killing the mob yourself, yes. And you got less exp than killing the hardest mob killable at your level as well. But what people don't understand is that while the exp is less, having more members and killing lesser mobs at a higher rate generates more exp than the mob that takes 5 minutes to kill and having to rest anyway.
I mean think about it. if every monster in the area is Even Match (100 exp), one person will have to rest after each fight. If it's two people, they can take out two before resting, but lose about 25 exp per kill, except taking out these consecutively provides bonuses to compensate. If it's three people, they should probably move on to Toughs for about 25 more exp than their previous mark, with a better exp chain bonus.
Unless you had refresh, which came about midway through the game and only for whm unless you had rdm in the party or had items/ethers (most people didn't) you rested - period. If only for the mages to recover MP. Just because you're killing a mob that gives ~200 exp, that doesn't mean a whole lot when you consider how dangerous it is. That's part of the fun, but dieing costs exp, which is what soloers complain about. In the time it takes to rest, a smaller party taking out the appropriate marks is smarter than the full party taking on the biggest baddie they can. They're killing faster and getting bigger chains with less downtime.
That's how it worked for me anyway. I would duo a lot and meet people along the way with nothing better to do. Many times I've completely skipped Valkurm Dunes, Qufim AND Kazham by being in smaller parties.
Abraxas [365]
The Sphere Grid was Final Fantasy X. It had locks to unlock before you could venture into other areas of abilites that strayed form the main character's role. FFXII had a less interesting kind of "board" where you started in a particular area and, if you wanted something else for that character, would just migrate to the appropriate area one skill at a time.
I think a combination of these would be the most applicable for Final Fantasy XIV. Where the sphere grid started off and locked a character within a certain class, perhaps in XIV the locks will be in place of tiers of spell and ability strength, and higher level locks in place of abilities that apply to other job classes. Thinking about this now, this is exactly what I'd like to see:
You choose your starting job and jump into it. Sometime at about lv.20 you're given the option to unlock abilities that further compliment your style of play. It doesn't cost points, like exp or ap, but instead it's a quest to prove that you're current job is capable. 20 is the "level" at which you can accept the quest, but the quest must be solo'd (no lv.75's doing it for you). In DDO there are dungeons that require you to complete without any help whatsoever - no duos, no signal pearl. This could be the proof that you know how to do your job correctly, and it would be based on what starting path you chose at time. It's not until after completing this inital quest that you can change jobs for the first time, and for each job you would have to do a similar quest - changing jobs will cancel that quest. So you're proving yourself with every new job.
Doing quests for each new skill you want might be an idea, but that might be really tedious. Maybe a similar option might be a good idea for a soloability aspect, since it would take a long ass time, but scratch that...
So it's the locks that are quested to unbreak and pull from other job ability sets in a similar way to the limit breaks or the crafting guild rank advancements. There's another idea I posted on another forum that I'll copy & paste here about classes having evolutionary tiers...
Edit: Evolutionary tiers instead of level caps. They might add different PUP models and call that class "machinist / engineer" or tweak ninja and call it "assassin". Another idea is having the job classes develop by evolutionary tier; thief > ninja > assassin. This could be an alternative to the level caps, since we don't know at this point how character development will progress. This way, whatever tier your party was, you could look for other members of the same tier. This would mean a simpler party search system. however levels are presented in XIV, these players could sync and learn abilities within their tier(s) until they chose to advance. If every job has three tiers it would be 1-25, 26-50, 51-75.
So, if you're looking for a thief, ninja, or assassin, you know he's within those levels, respectively.
Abraxas [365]
But then the solo/casual player will still cry around on the forums because he couldnt get to end-game in a day.
It is a never ending cycle and most of it boils down to lazyness and jealousy. Some people need to realize they cant be an elite player due to RL obligations, there is nothing wrong with that. Play it and enjoy it.
its not always layzyness or jealousy, but for some, like people who have kids/family and a full time job dont always have the time to look for/participate or put in the effort it CAN take to get into a party, but at the same still want to be able to enjoy the game. I LOVE to get into partys when I can, but I dont always have the time to; so to ME the solo content is nice to have so that I dont get stuck at low levels while all my friends with out kids or more time to play dont get way past me or make it take me foreeeeeeeever to catch up and play with them at end game.
The problem is this Zaylin. FF XI was not a game for people who had kids/familes and a full time job (well, mostly the kid/families part, I could see someone who worked from 8am to 5 pm then playing FF XI till about 9-10pm). If you made FF XIV more solable, then you will alienate the original fanbase from FFXI. Thus, the game will have to depend on more people like you to fill those empty ranks. And if that failed, then FF XIV will end up being the next EQ2 example.
I'm sorry, but I just don't see the solo/casual player working well with FF XIV if it ends up being based off of FF XI's basic ideals. More solo aspects will kill the group aspect of FF XI.
I beg to differ {in a non rude tone} I played FFXI,lol matter of a fact it was my very first mmo. And at the time I had a full time job wife and kid.Yes I had challanges doing things by my self and leveling,I got into some GRrreAT parties when I had the time.did I complain about FFXI not having enough solo content or being solo freindly ?Nope. I enjoyed the challanges that FFXI had. By all means I would not want it toned down to fit my schedule. But I do agree to make a game so solo friendly that you can get all the uber gear and would never have to group WOULD be lame. Yall who got more time to put in DO deserve to have some better gear,and thats just simple. ya I deserver better gear too, but it will take me longer than the person with more time to put in. hope that clears up some of my statement that was not fleshed out.
good discusion 
Ah, ok, now I get what you were going at with that discussion.
P.S. You got to play a hardcore group game when you have a full time job and a family? Awesome, I hope to teach my children when I get married to love video games (and hopefully my wife too), that way we can all enjoy playing FF XXV or whatever Final Fantasy MMO game is out at the time.
Well there were days I had off and my wife would be nice enough to take care of our child at the time for the day/fer a while to let her hard wokring man enjoy some GOOD clean FUN game time, as she knew that I relished the chance to get into a party but did not always have the time.I actually got her into playing as well.only had one pc at the time though :P,and loved the game as well.
Well, thanks to Masterpoe for that sticky, we now have a huge source of information to help us all out keep up to date on FF XIV news (for those who never heard of Google anyhow). Now, I was quite excited to read some of those interview and what the devs were going to do with FF XIV. Then I read them, and almost choked (literately, I was eating a fish stick). I thought at first that the devs simply said "more casual aspects" just to try to draw the casual crowd into a game that ended up being as hardcore as FF XI, but reading those various sources, I am now scared. It seems that SE is not only trying to put casual aspects inside the game, but it looks like SE is actually trying to make FF XIV completely solable!!!
I don't have to state why this could be potentially very bad, just read the OP of this thread.
But I realize that I never did expand on the EQ2 situation that I compare the possibilities of FF XIV to.
EQ2 was a sequel of a hardcore game that was mostly about grouping (you could solo, but grouping had more advantages). The developers wanted to attract more people inside the sequel, and realized that although they had gotten the hardcore grouper's attention, they had no attention whatsoever from the casuals. Thinking of making more money rather than reviewing the idea better, they decided to make EQ2 a more casual game. A game that would have both group and solo elements (you could "beat" the game with both playstyles), and would become more friendly to the casuals. It looked like a huge market success, right? WRONG. EQ2 was a complete turnoff to the EQ fanbase that hated the casual sequel, and instead stook to EQ1. Meanwhile, the gameplay wasn't enough to attract enough casuals, so EQ2 tanked. It alientated the hardcore fanbase from the prequel EQ1, and it ended up not attracting enough casuals.
If you put A and B together, history shows that when you make a casual-based sequel off of a game that was hardcore group based, you end up with a failure. The exception is that it is possible that FF XIV could attract enough casuals, in which case FF XIV becomes a completely casual game. The problem here is that SE announced that they would only have a small team monitor FF XI, so basically no new expansions and only neccessary patches. In other words, they're putting FF XI on life support. The main issue here isn't that FF XIV becomes a casual game, it's that FF XIV could potentially die and become a market failure if the game alienates the hardcores and doesn't attract enough casuals. Meanwhile, all you guys at FF XI hoping to see a new and improved sequel of the game you loved won't happen.
Its really a simple concept for SE (I saw someone else pointed it out).
If they make a FFXIV based off FFXI concepts and ideals then it will be a successfull and around for many years to come. SE DOES have enough current and former FFXI fans, and a large enough fan base that they do not need the Solo'ers/ super casuals. The downside to this is that FFXI will go bye bye, because people will make the jump.
If they cater to much to the casuals and solo'ers then they will loose a lot of their fan base. SE would take the risk of FFXIV joining the ranks of AoC and WAR. Big for a few months then falls off the radar. Every game thats tried to be like WoW has crashed and burnt I dont know why they would want to risk it. The upside is that FFXI would not die.
I personally think they will stick with their fans. I hope they realize that Soloers just hop from MMO to MMO. Once the next MMO after FFXIV comes out the solo crowd will be gone. They have no desire to support a game for the long run .
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
They said that both styles of play will be accepted. it's almost like they're making two games, I highly doubt they will ditch the FFXI community because in an interview I watched they said that they took ideas directly from the community. Maybe they're making soloing possibly but not as rewarding as doing it as a group. If you can get small exp from soloing while I look for a party, I bring on that idea. Really I'm going to stop researching and pondering this game for a few months because it's going to make me go crazy.
To avoid a nasty "you don't understand soloers" post, I will state this. Soloers do not neccessarily jump from game to game. I've heard of "hardcore soloers" who are people that do solo in their game, but they are dedicated to it. However, they are a minority compared to the casual soloers who do indeed jump from game to game often.
This also brings something up that I wish to talk about.
Although it hasn't been announced yet, it's not to predict that FF XIV will be a subscription game. Usually, P2P games want dedicated fans that are willing to spend alot of time and money to play the game. So, I would like to point out another reason why FF XIV will probably end up being mostly hardcore.
1. Casual gamers are not neccessarily dedicated gamers. In fact, they're the type that moves around from game to game, while hardcores are dedicated to the game they play. Now, of course you will get dedicated casual gamers (WOW is a huge example of this), and they are a majority. But still, casual gamers do not always dedicate themselves to a game, they usually float around. This is not a crowd you would want for a P2P game, especially if the sequel ends up retaining the original mechanics of FF XIV.
2. Soloists also fall into that idea that they aren't always dedicated to a game (especially if grouping is the main aspect of the game the soloist happens to be playing). Also, since FF XIV will most likely be hardcore to entice the FF XI crowd, solo aspects will most likely suck compared to grouping in the game. This is speculation, since we do not know what the solo aspects will be in the game, but if FF XIV retains the mechanics and "feel" of FF XI, it will probably not be solo friendly. So, if this were to happen, then we really can't depend on soloers to be part of the FF XIV crowd.
Yes I agree that they can solo... but...
Those soloing is only possible when you at least have some high lvl character... It's pretty much impossible for a newbies.
1. BST - it's not available from the beginning, you have to unlock it first.... what was lvl req. to unlock? can't remember clearly.
2. RDM - it's good, yeah can solo... still, this is only for the decent lvl RDMs... (dunno why they solo... they can find party a lot easier than other class)
3. NIN - another class that need to be unlocked, plus when i was playing... NIN's shadow scroll (Ichi) was quite expensive (you could get it with quest thou), plus you need tools(powder?) to spam that shadow skill and that also need to be purchased... Also, you can't solo well with just an Ichi spell, you also need Ni to be able to solo...
4 BLM & THF - pretty much same as RDM, they are not that good and not solo-able till... what lvl 50-ish? 60-ish?
Your version of solo is for the ones that already reached an end game and has steady income (gil)... you left out other details that comes with soloing, like specific subjobs, equips, food and etc.
FFXI is very hard game for a brand new beginner compare to other MMOs... soloing is pretty much not a good idea for a beginner.
just my 2 cents.
No man, your dead wrong, and you missed the point of my post. I simply wanted to point out that soloing was possible, because people keep saying "I don't care if its hard and less rewarding, I just don't to sit in Jeuno all day without the option to solo while I wait for a party". So I made it 100% clear that FFXI was exactly this way already.
Your also wrong about the jobs. Yes, for BST you need to be level 30 to unlock it.. but what does it matter, solo your way there and unlock it... besides your going to need a subjob anyway, so level which ever you chose to use as your sub and get it to 30. Then your set.
As for NIN. Um... I do believe I said "yes, it would be expensive". I would also like to point out that I don't care which way you go with NIN, your going to HAVE to get utsusemi: ichi and ni... solo or grouping... so your point is void.
For BLM, all you really need for BLM to solo is capped abilities, some decent gear and all the spells. Again, your going to need all of this whether you solo or go grouped anyway. Sleep, bind, debuff, nuke... rinse and repeat.... sleep and bind being the main spells that allow BLM to solo, and they come pretty early on... so again, your wrong.
Again I can go on, but I've made my point. Soloing was possible in FFXI, I'm sorry, but it was.
3 out of all the classes being able to solo is not soloability. Soloability is the ability of any class to solo to an extent. That is what I believe SE plans to do with the game. They plan to make every class be able to solo, but again they do put an emphasis that grouping will be more rewarding.
if they kept it the same as ffxi people wouldn't bother porting over, and new players would hate it because it'd be tedious and annoying to do anything with.
Every mmo I've played any class could solo, it might take longer but I could solo with any class. so when you say a class doesn't have soloability what do you mean exactly?
Trolls = Hardcore
Fanbois = Carebears
The only posts I read in threads are my own.
Every class should be able to take on the same level mob. Killing rabbits or helpless creatures doesn't equal soloability. If you take for instance a dd, a healer, and a tank and put them by themselves they should each be able to take on an enemy equally or close to equally of course with each having it's own strength. DD should be able to kill something fast with more downtime for resting. Tank should be able to take things down slowly with minimal dmg. and the healer should be able to kill something while occasionally healing him/herself.
* In most mmo's any class can solo very well. This was not the case with ffxi and this is one of the major things that SE plans to fix I believe
Yes, you are right about soloing, they can solo... i agree., but since you know quite a lot of soloing...
Can you tell little more about when they can start solo?
It's no-brainer that you can solo with anything if your lvl is high and has all abilities, but your soloing is based on character with high lvl.... my question is... can you reach high enough lvl via soloing? from lvl 20?
Not so fast Valentina. This goes back to my "SOCOM example" I said to someone on a previous post.
Think of it this way. When SOCOM2 came out, it was basically just an enhanced version of the first SOCOM game. So why port over and play the new game? It was simply an improved version of what you loved originally, right? Well, SOCOM2 sold out majorly, still actually has a handful of people playing, and basically showed that new and improved sequels of games can sell. Besides, FF XIV won't be completely similar. They're introducing a sphere grid idea that probably will copy FF X's idea, and SE said that the game will be supposedly more casual than before (although read the previous posts to see why FF XIV will mostly likely remain hardcore and have stronger group aspects than solo aspects). So, I don't think porting over to a new and (hopefully) improved version of FF XI will be tedious and annoying, there's probably thousands of people already watching to see when FF XIV will come out.
Sure some would stay with ffxi but a major # would leave.
BTW I think I can speak for anyone who loved FFXI when I say that the FFXI fans do not think its tedious or annoying.
I even think if FFXIV was more like FFXI that it could gain some of the old EQ fans as well.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
The thing that sets FFXI aside from other games in the genre is the grinding is actually FUN. Leveling in groups is fun as well, especially with the renkeis; I used to be entertained for hours straight with a light or darkness renkei every minute. I for one have a FFXI account with maxed chars, however I have ended up shelving it til the release of XIV, at which point I will play FFXIV, of course. I respect Square enix greatly, and have faith that they will not save in to the casual MMO market style, and instead keep a few options for leveling solo, but with the greatest exp and rewards being reserved for group play, hopefully at the 10+ players level. In short, I feel that if they casualized the game, it would actually cause it to fail.
Yes, you are right about soloing, they can solo... i agree., but since you know quite a lot of soloing...
Can you tell little more about when they can start solo?
It's no-brainer that you can solo with anything if your lvl is high and has all abilities, but your soloing is based on character with high lvl.... my question is... can you reach high enough lvl via soloing? from lvl 20?
Please read the post before you make comments. I actually originaly posted 5 jobs in FFXI that were soloable.. and stated that I could go on... but I wasnt gonna sit there and go through every job. I made my point.
Soloing was not just high end. At any level, any job could solo, given the fact that you actually know how to play your job, and fight mobs that are weak to your job type. Now this is the part that for some reason it seems you cannot understand. YOU WILL NOT GAIN A BILLION EXP IN AN HOUR. IT WILL NOT BE AS FAST AS LEVELING IN A PARTY. IT WILL BE HARD. IT WILL BE RISKY. IT WILL BE DANGEROUS. THE REWARD WILL NOT BE GREAT FOR THE MOST PART. IT WILL BE TIME COMSUMING. IT IS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now you answer me a question or two. First, why do people want a completely soloable MMORPG? I mean, I don't play MMORPG's to play by myself, it just don't make sense. Now I can see wanting to have the ability to escape and go out by yourself once in awhile, or when there is nothing else to do.. but that option was provided. The truth is that it seems people keep saying this is all they want, but really they want more. People did not solo in FFXI because it was alot less rewarding and everything else I stated above than grouping.. so people just overlooked it. All these people really want is "easy".
Second, why do people keep confusing "casual friendly" with "soloability". To me, "casual friendly" means that there will be more quests to do that are more rewarding. Or maybe they will not make us do genkais. Maybe they will simply impliment more ideas in the game that people can get involved in that will give them something to do when they log on, and it won't take along time to do a "run" of whatever this may be. "Soloability" means that everyone can take every job and level it to level cap just about as fast... or as fast as people that decide to group up to make parties. So again, why is everyone confusing the two?
My definition of soloability is the ability to solo for a couple of hours and get something done. Soloability and Casual friendly actually go hand in hand. The casual player can only play a couple of hours or so a night and won't be able to dedicate himself to a group. Because he/she cannot dedicate himself to a group he will have to solo. While soloing he will want to accomplish something or he will get disgusted and quit the game. In FFXI if you were to solo it would take you 5 times longer to level than if you were in a group if not longer. Obviously in a party you should get about 2 to 3 times the experience as when you solo, but not 5+ times the amount. This does not equal soloability. You might as well sit in Jeuno for an hour and then join a group for just an hour if that's the case. So I am sure that SE will basically just adjust the amount of progression a player can make on his/her own. With all of that said I am a hardcore player and usually put in several hours in one day. I am a strong believer in grouping, however it is nice to have the option of soloing from time to time.
I'm sorry, I just don't agree. I know when I was level 43ish on my NIN, I went out soloing because I wanted to have fun, I do lots of things like that. I can remember fighting EM to T mobs and made around 2 - 2.5k an hour exp. thats not bad. The BLM I was telling you about that loved to solo.. he could get 5-6k an hour. Just because you didn't put the effort into it.. or have the skills and knowledge to do it, does not mean it wasn't true or possible.
If soloers want to play MMORPG's, which still don't make sense to me.. then they can go find some other game to play... leave FFXI to the real gamers
. Furthermore.. I don't want a bunch of people that have soloed all the way to "level cap" getting to end game and not knowing what the hell they are doing. Besides, end game gets crowed as it is. I'd actually prefer that SE made it harded or longer for people to make it to end game :P
I went from a brand new account and got to lvl 55 in 2 weeks. I believe I have the skill. All I'm saying is that other people should be able to play casually and feel accomplished. I have a maxed character with all jobs, but that isn't important. It's just an opinion. No need to attack my "skills" lol.. Off to the store with my gf now, I'll be back on to reply in a couple hours. Not trying to attack anyone just trying to stick up for the people that don't have the time to play games like I do.