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If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs
If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs, let alone MMORPGs. It's like playing Halo and saying "I don't like shooting".
Grinding is a time honoured RPG tradition. Why, I was just playing Final Fantasy VII on my PSP and I spend 3 hours grinding outside Wutai in order to level up my materia.
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And who the hell are you telling people they shouldn't be playing a certain game just because they don't like grinding?.
You don't have to grind in mmorpgs if you don't want to
You can either kill monsters or do quests.
Grind is a term mostly used for doing the same boring thing over and over it doesn't automatically mean levelling up or even killing monsters.
Grinding in an RPG isn't exactly the same as grinding in an MMO. It's a lot easier in an RPG, imo.
***EDIT*** Slavery used to be an American honoured tradition also.
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And who the hell are you telling people they shouldn't be playing a certain game just because they don't like grinding?.
You don't have to grind in mmorpgs if you don't want to
You can either kill monsters or do quests.
Grind is a term mostly used for doing the same boring thing over and over it doesn't automatically mean levelling up or even killing monsters.
Actually - even though the OP was a little harsh, he's correct.
Grinding is anything that sucks up time. Whether its questing, leveling professions, killing mobs, whatever... its all the same. Its still a grind no matter how you want to spin it.
I agree with the OP. If you don't like to grind (IE: Gain levels, skills, professions, whatever), then you shouldn't be playing MMOs.... its not saying "you can't play this game" he's saying "if you don't like this certain aspect, thats present in EVERY MMO then you are in the wrong genre". I can't say I disagree with him
I agree every MMO/RPG is a grind and people play them and complain. I would like someone to name one MMO that isn't a grind.
I'm not trying to spin anything, my opinion is that the term Grind is only used when your doing something that you find boring.
I'm a lover of questing in games to me that isn't a grind because i enjoy it.
I think the term Grinding in general doesn't really have a definitive meaning so people have their own interpretations.
Well games like DAOC where you could power level , you could avoid the level grind.
As for gear grind, at least once you were done that was it for quite awhile. TOA was grindy though.
But yeah, every type of MMO has some kinda grind. I get the OP's point but I also think there's more to it. There a lot of people that want to just do certain things in the game without having to grind or wish the whole process was more fun. That's why people may complain. Sadly, everyone is entitled to an opinion.
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To be fair... Guild Wars is probably the least Grindy MMO out of the bunch. You can get to top level in literally a day... then you're free to PVP until the moon shines over.
HOWEVER, that being said.. you STILL grind for the rarest weapons, money, even PVP is a grind when you do it over and over for whatever purpose.
I think most people who bitch about the "level grind" should really be looking at Guild Wars as a game to play.... Games like WoW, Aion, AoC, hell - even LOTRO which takes very little time to go to max level is still a grind.... but LOTRO don't have any world PVP what so ever... I firmly believe that people who are complaining about the ganking/PVP/lack of PVE content should be off RIGHT NOW giving money to Turbine. LOTRO is a fantastic game - but sadly it isn't for me. Its WAY too easy (IMO) and the lack of adventure/PVP makes it stale to me. Still - its a great game and I definitely see why ppl love it. Same way Aion is a great game...
The worst is people just trying to change the fundamentals because it doesn't do what THEY want it to do... last I checked, no one here is a project manager for NCSoft... they know what they are doing, and while this won't appeal to everyone, it appeals to enough of the player base that those involved really like what's built... and are very happy with it.
I have to disagree again... there is a definition... people just don't want to look at it. Instead they'll complain how it doesn't do what they WANT it to do....
From our friends at wiki..
"Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game"
This can be anything from questing, running instances, leveling professions, getting gear, whatever you want it to be...
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_(gaming)
Are you serious? Thats the fucking... In order for one to make such a comment one must have many issues... mentaly challenged perhaps? Seriosly though in what ever meaning do you want to pin grind on RPGs. Grind is not exclusivly but almost so in every korean/asian game, be it mmo to fuckin FPS. But guess what thats exactly the opposit of a good RPG. A good RPG is built on a storyline which makes you feel every mob matters!
A bad one, well there you just kill stuff for no appearent reason whatsoever. An Honoured tradition my ass, thats almost offensive.
of all good RPGs ex as diablo 1 and 2 theres killing but its somewhat fun and or, you can play strictly to the story without going for extra creeps or boss runs, its optional. RPGs they are, although not as pure as for instance might of magic if your into that kinda thing.
Conclusion, your statement is bullshit, also noone likes to grind, they may like what they get out of it as exp and items, but to say you actually like the grind itself is bullshit
Grinding is just simply doing a boring task that reaps little benefit just to be moving forward.
Jeez, don't ANY of you watch Deadliest Catch?! How can so many fishermen be wrong?
I disagree. You suffer from a very limited perspective on RPGs. I have played PC RPGs since Ultima III and pen and paper before that. Many of the greatest PC RPG titles did not have what most would consider a typical grind MMORPGs these days.
Grinding is also not a time-honored RPG tradition. It is what more hack'n'slash RPGs have often done. However, character advancement through XP does not necessarily mean that you have to "grind".
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Yet another stupid thread with zero basis. Maybe you like to grind you cement head but it is NOT what RPG's are all about. I suggest you go back to studying RPG games over the years and playing through all the top ones. Grinding is there in MMO's to keep stupid people like you easily amused with a mundane task for countless hours on end.
In the words of Ron White "You can't fix stupid"!
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
Are you serious? Thats the fucking... In order for one to make such a comment one must have many issues... mentaly challenged perhaps? Seriosly though in what ever meaning do you want to pin grind on RPGs. Grind is not exclusivly but almost so in every korean/asian game, be it mmo to fuckin FPS. But guess what thats exactly the opposit of a good RPG. A good RPG is built on a storyline which makes you feel every mob matters!
A bad one, well there you just kill stuff for no appearent reason whatsoever. An Honoured tradition my ass, thats almost offensive.
of all good RPGs ex as diablo 1 and 2 theres killing but its somewhat fun and or, you can play strictly to the story without going for extra creeps or boss runs, its optional. RPGs they are, although not as pure as for instance might of magic if your into that kinda thing.
Conclusion, your statement is bullshit, also noone likes to grind, they may like what they get out of it as exp and items, but to say you actually like the grind itself is bullshit
You are not defining what a grind (or not a grind) is... you're defining what a good (or bad) game is...
Completely different points.
Lack of attitude goes a long way for people not thinking you're a complete asshat either... just sayin....
The best mmorpgs have been 100% grind free. Your logic is flawed.
"It is in your nature to do one thing correctly; Before me, you rightfully tremble. But, fear is not what you owe me. You owe me awe." ~Francis Dolarhyde
The best mmorpgs have been 100% grind free. Your logic is flawed.
Oh come on..
Name ONE MMO that's "completely" grind free...
I disagree. You suffer from a very limited perspective on RPGs. I have played PC RPGs since Ultima III and pen and paper before that. Many of the greatest PC RPG titles did have what most would consider a typical grind MMORPGs these days.
Grinding is also not a time-honored RPG tradition. It is what more hack'n'slash RPGs have often done. However, character advancement through XP does not necessarily mean that you have to "grind".
Tabletop RPG's aren't necessarily grinds because, well, they aren't automated. You have a DM controlling the choices you as a player get to make. Even hardcore raiders in WOW grind when they raid. Ask any player how many times they grinded BT just to get some illidan loot before sunwell came out.
And someone mentioned diablo and the lack of grinding? Yeah.. if you want to quit the game after beating it once on each difficulty level and let it collect dust. But if you want to attain max level? You're grinding it.
The correct sentence is
If you don't want to grind anything, even with the GW difficulty, don't play MMOs, adding the RPG to the name of that kind of game has no sense.
Thread title says it all, I couldn't agree more.
I disagree. You suffer from a very limited perspective on RPGs. I have played PC RPGs since Ultima III and pen and paper before that. Many of the greatest PC RPG titles did have what most would consider a typical grind MMORPGs these days.
Grinding is also not a time-honored RPG tradition. It is what more hack'n'slash RPGs have often done. However, character advancement through XP does not necessarily mean that you have to "grind".
Tabletop RPG's aren't necessarily grinds because, well, they aren't automated. You have a DM controlling the choices you as a player get to make. Even hardcore raiders in WOW grind when they raid. Ask any player how many times they grinded BT just to get some illidan loot before sunwell came out.
And someone mentioned diablo and the lack of grinding? Yeah.. if you want to quit the game after beating it once on each difficulty level and let it collect dust. But if you want to attain max level? You're grinding it.
Exactly... well said
Grinding in an RPG isn't exactly the same as grinding in an MMO. It's a lot easier in an RPG, imo.
***EDIT*** Slavery used to be an American honoured tradition also.
You just paralleled slavery with MMO grind...
I did a swift face to palm and then realized the yellow people who farm me goldz tied the two together already.
ALL YOUR PLAYER BASE ARE BELONG TO KITTY!
I disagree. You suffer from a very limited perspective on RPGs. I have played PC RPGs since Ultima III and pen and paper before that. Many of the greatest PC RPG titles did have what most would consider a typical grind MMORPGs these days.
Grinding is also not a time-honored RPG tradition. It is what more hack'n'slash RPGs have often done. However, character advancement through XP does not necessarily mean that you have to "grind".
Tabletop RPG's aren't necessarily grinds because, well, they aren't automated. You have a DM controlling the choices you as a player get to make. Even hardcore raiders in WOW grind when they raid. Ask any player how many times they grinded BT just to get some illidan loot before sunwell came out.
And someone mentioned diablo and the lack of grinding? Yeah.. if you want to quit the game after beating it once on each difficulty level and let it collect dust. But if you want to attain max level? You're grinding it.
I have no idea what you replying to apart from rambling to yourself.
Of course there is grind in WoW and Diablo 2. Both are based on that type of gameplay even if WoW is slightly more sophisticated. Did not mention either of those.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
OP seems to be missing the concept of what RPG truly means. ROLE PLAYING GAME, know what that means? Not REPEATED GRINDING GAME, for goodness sake. I know the companies use the RPG concept for their games, even though they fit more in the Adventure genre than anything else, since you don't really get to roleplay your character in most RPGs (mmo or not, with very few exceptions, like the multiplayer servers of Neverwinter Nights), but still, there's way more to a game than grinding over and over, in my humble opinon.
I think you're all nit-picking too much.
What the OP REALLY meant was "MMO" not "RPG"
MMO's always have a grind... RPGs are a little different.... I've noticed most ppl who flame the OP is because of the "RPG" comment but no one has disagreed with the MMO part as of yet.
Change RPG to MMO and you'll get his point.
I disagree. You suffer from a very limited perspective on RPGs. I have played PC RPGs since Ultima III and pen and paper before that. Many of the greatest PC RPG titles did have what most would consider a typical grind MMORPGs these days.
Grinding is also not a time-honored RPG tradition. It is what more hack'n'slash RPGs have often done. However, character advancement through XP does not necessarily mean that you have to "grind".
Tabletop RPG's aren't necessarily grinds because, well, they aren't automated. You have a DM controlling the choices you as a player get to make. Even hardcore raiders in WOW grind when they raid. Ask any player how many times they grinded BT just to get some illidan loot before sunwell came out.
And someone mentioned diablo and the lack of grinding? Yeah.. if you want to quit the game after beating it once on each difficulty level and let it collect dust. But if you want to attain max level? You're grinding it.
I have no idea what you replying to apart from rambling to yourself.
Of course there is grind in WoW and Diablo 2. Both are based on that type of gameplay even if WoW is slightly more sophisticated. Did not mention either of those.
I underlined the progress through the few chained quotes so you can get an idea of the conversation to help clear the confusion you claim to have. And in reference to Diablo and WoW, they were both "starting points" for many gamers that play today. So in that theory have set the standard.
Hope that clears things up for you.
Yes almost every mmo has grind, but i don't find the grind to be the problem.
In todays games everyone is in rush to get to the max lvl and in order to do that you have to grind / do pointless quests.
It's not about the joyrney anymore, it's all about the end game and how to get there fast.
In my 2 first mmo's, UO and SWG, I never even thought about getting to max lvl while playing.
I had always something fun to do that did not feel like grinding. Part of the reason is that todays games don't let high lvl and low lvl players do anything together.
It was a shock for me in the first weeks in WoW that if I did not play exactly the same amount as my friends we could not do much together anymore.