I've been doing a bit more research on GG and apparently if you are using Avast AV you my have to disable it to play Aion... so you're running without Antivirus protection (about 80% of the people seem to be having this issue). So, if you are also having Firewall issues with GG and you need to turn that off you have a completely unprotected computer while gaming...
I use Vista and have never had issues with GameGuard except for the fact that the first time I load it up for a new game I have to acknowledge four or five goddamn times that "Yes, I'm sure I really want to run this program". Other than that it's always worked fine for me.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I use Vista and have never had issues with GameGuard except for the fact that the first time I load it up for a new game I have to acknowledge four or five goddamn times that "Yes, I'm sure I really want to run this program". Other than that it's always worked fine for me.
Same, im using Windows 7 x64 and I ahhve firewall and anti-virus, and up until now i just installed and run the game with absolutely no problems
I use Vista and have never had issues with GameGuard except for the fact that the first time I load it up for a new game I have to acknowledge four or five goddamn times that "Yes, I'm sure I really want to run this program". Other than that it's always worked fine for me.
Same, im using Windows 7 x64 and I ahhve firewall and anti-virus, and up until now i just installed and run the game with absolutely no problems
It seems to depend on what components are installed on a given system. I tried it and it got into a knock down drag out fight with my firewall/security suite. (Commodo) and bit defender 2009, Vista 64 SP1. Be that as it may, game software doesn't need the additional "issues" involved in using such a poorly coded app. The Asian suits need to get over their short term approach to these matters. Game security needs to be addressed at the very start of design, not as an after thought, with a feel good bandaid like Gameguard. Not only is it intrusive, its ineffective. It results in much more technical support usuage, not to mention the bad PR that modern western games simply can NOT afford.
Just want a 100% confirmation one way or the other before purchasing. Nothing against the game. I just don't play games that use this king of worthless garbage to protect them. Tia
Yes they do. I went against my better judgement as a beta tester and loaded it up. I could not take anymore as this game is just not for me. However, game guard is still a malware/rootkit nightmare and caused many issues in my very clean system.
Ive heard nightmare stories about GG and securerom but have never seen them. Just what issues do you have?
I have personally never had a single issue with GameGuard. Of course, I'm not trying to macro or bot either.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Well this sucks, I just pre-ordered the game about an hour ago then see this thread. I hate SecuROM and GG, and anything to do with "Anti-Piracy" programs. They are a hoax, as whatever game they stick the supposed "security" on is cracked and overly pirated the next day. As someone earlier stated, GG/etc seem to attract hackers for some reason(most likely the challenge). I have personally had issues with SecuROM in NWN2, I was unable to play the game after I paid $50 for it for around a month. The only time I have ever "hacked" was back in Starcraft for PC, using a minimap hack once or twice but only over LAN with friends to piss them off and get laugh's when they hid. Anyways I am strongly against such techniques, developers know how to program so why the hell pay a third party to do it for you? *Sigh* I better not have issues with this being on Vista x64.
They pay a third party because it is more efficient than dedicating an in house anti-hack team.
Or would you rather the in house programmers stop working on bug fixes, new features, and content updates every time a new hack comes out?
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Just want a 100% confirmation one way or the other before purchasing. Nothing against the game. I just don't play games that use this king of worthless garbage to protect them. Tia
Yes they do. I went against my better judgement as a beta tester and loaded it up. I could not take anymore as this game is just not for me. However, game guard is still a malware/rootkit nightmare and caused many issues in my very clean system.
Ive heard nightmare stories about GG and securerom but have never seen them. Just what issues do you have?
I have personally never had a single issue with GameGuard. Of course, I'm not trying to macro or bot either.
Interesting implication. So, only those who "macro or bot" have problems with Gameguard? In reality, Gameguard and other such third party apps are VERY ineffective at keeping such types at bay. One has only to look at Linage2 or other such games to know that reality. MMO software is much more than complex enough, without adding poorly coded apps like Gameguard to the mix.
Well this sucks, I just pre-ordered the game about an hour ago then see this thread. I hate SecuROM and GG, and anything to do with "Anti-Piracy" programs. They are a hoax, as whatever game they stick the supposed "security" on is cracked and overly pirated the next day. As someone earlier stated, GG/etc seem to attract hackers for some reason(most likely the challenge). I have personally had issues with SecuROM in NWN2, I was unable to play the game after I paid $50 for it for around a month. The only time I have ever "hacked" was back in Starcraft for PC, using a minimap hack once or twice but only over LAN with friends to piss them off and get laugh's when they hid. Anyways I am strongly against such techniques, developers know how to program so why the hell pay a third party to do it for you? *Sigh* I better not have issues with this being on Vista x64.
They pay a third party because it is more efficient than dedicating an in house anti-hack team.
Or would you rather the in house programmers stop working on bug fixes, new features, and content updates every time a new hack comes out?
Nonsense. If a game is properly designed and coded, it wouldn't need a feel good bandaid like gameguard. Gameguards main appeal is to the companies suits, who are looking for a one stop, feel good bandaid to address issues that should have been dealt with from the very start of design. Its use also adds a large amount of work to the technical support department, who have to untangle the conflicts between it and countless legitimate apps running on various OS's.
Well this sucks, I just pre-ordered the game about an hour ago then see this thread. I hate SecuROM and GG, and anything to do with "Anti-Piracy" programs. They are a hoax, as whatever game they stick the supposed "security" on is cracked and overly pirated the next day. As someone earlier stated, GG/etc seem to attract hackers for some reason(most likely the challenge). I have personally had issues with SecuROM in NWN2, I was unable to play the game after I paid $50 for it for around a month. The only time I have ever "hacked" was back in Starcraft for PC, using a minimap hack once or twice but only over LAN with friends to piss them off and get laugh's when they hid. Anyways I am strongly against such techniques, developers know how to program so why the hell pay a third party to do it for you? *Sigh* I better not have issues with this being on Vista x64.
They pay a third party because it is more efficient than dedicating an in house anti-hack team.
Or would you rather the in house programmers stop working on bug fixes, new features, and content updates every time a new hack comes out?
Nonsense. If a game is properly designed and coded, it wouldn't need a feel good bandaid like gameguard. Gameguards main appeal is to the companies suits, who are looking for a one stop, feel good bandaid to address issues that should have been dealt with from the very start of design. Its use also adds a large amount of work to the technical support department, who have to untangle the conflicts between it and countless legitimate apps running on various OS's.
If just spending a little extra effort was all it took to make programs secure I'm sure the internet security problems would have been solved long ago. The truth is, even a team a dedicated specialist will NEVER block all possible hacks. The manpower and resources hackers can collectively throw at cheating far exceeds what a game company (or any other software company) is capable of defeating. Even full time security firms working are projects far more important than a game are unable to block all hackers. (You know, banks, goverment agencies, major corporations guarding sensitive material, they all wish it was as simple as just dedicating a few programmers to the task.)
And who is going to be more skilled at avoiding conflicts with all those countless apps. A game designer who only sometimes works to patch hacks or a programmer that specializes in it?
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Well this sucks, I just pre-ordered the game about an hour ago then see this thread. I hate SecuROM and GG, and anything to do with "Anti-Piracy" programs. They are a hoax, as whatever game they stick the supposed "security" on is cracked and overly pirated the next day. As someone earlier stated, GG/etc seem to attract hackers for some reason(most likely the challenge). I have personally had issues with SecuROM in NWN2, I was unable to play the game after I paid $50 for it for around a month. The only time I have ever "hacked" was back in Starcraft for PC, using a minimap hack once or twice but only over LAN with friends to piss them off and get laugh's when they hid. Anyways I am strongly against such techniques, developers know how to program so why the hell pay a third party to do it for you? *Sigh* I better not have issues with this being on Vista x64.
They pay a third party because it is more efficient than dedicating an in house anti-hack team.
Or would you rather the in house programmers stop working on bug fixes, new features, and content updates every time a new hack comes out?
Nonsense. If a game is properly designed and coded, it wouldn't need a feel good bandaid like gameguard. Gameguards main appeal is to the companies suits, who are looking for a one stop, feel good bandaid to address issues that should have been dealt with from the very start of design. Its use also adds a large amount of work to the technical support department, who have to untangle the conflicts between it and countless legitimate apps running on various OS's.
If just spending a little extra effort was all it took to make programs secure I'm sure the internet security problems would have been solved long ago. The truth is, even a team a dedicated specialist will NEVER block all possible hacks. The manpower and resources hackers can collectively throw at cheating far exceeds what a game company (or any other software company) is capable of defeating. Even full time security firms working are projects far more important than a game are unable to block all hackers. (You know, banks, goverment agencies, major corporations guarding sensitive material, they all wish it was as simple as just dedicating a few programmers to the task.)
And who is going to be more skilled at avoiding conflicts with all those countless apps. A game designer who only sometimes works to patch hacks or a programmer that specializes in it?
Thats a red herring. One doesn't need to stop ALL hacks. In fact as you point out thats pretty much impossible. But neither should one leave client/server side security to third parties. They lack the depth of understanding of the code base that in house personnel possess, and they also tend not to be nearly as timely in their response to on going problems. If one is going to obsess about *game* security to the extent that many Asian suits do, one would be better served to deal with the majority of such issues in the design phase. As for the last, one has only to look at the endless troubles that Gameguard and its ilk cause, and the slow pace with which such are resolved to understand why its not a good approach. Its bad design, its bad policy and its bad PR.
I'm sorry if this is a Noobish question but this is the first time I've heard of it and I was interested in playing AION.
How risky is GameGuard to Privacy/Security and will it uninstall cleanly? I use my PC for work and something that gets down to BIOS level and shuts down USB stuff sounds really really bad.
Also, will it work on Lenovo PCs with security chips?
I'm sorry if this is a Noobish question but this is the first time I've heard of it and I was interested in playing AION.
How risky is GameGuard to Privacy/Security and will it uninstall cleanly? I use my PC for work and something that gets down to BIOS level and shuts down USB stuff sounds really really bad. Also, will it work on Lenovo PCs with security chips?
Well... You see thats part of the problem. Some people(with certain configurations) have no trouble. Some with slightly different configs have minor problems. Some people on the other hand have major system crashing problems. There is really no way of knowing before hand. Which is one of the reasons that this is a POOR choice for a game company to make. One shouldn't have to gamble with game software running or crashing ones system. As for the Lenovo with security chips, I have no experience with that(sorry). But if its firmware prevents certain types of intrusive actions, it will likely conflict with some of GameGuards antics. Which could lead to either the game not running, or the conflict locking up your system.
I'm sorry if this is a Noobish question but this is the first time I've heard of it and I was interested in playing AION.
How risky is GameGuard to Privacy/Security and will it uninstall cleanly? I use my PC for work and something that gets down to BIOS level and shuts down USB stuff sounds really really bad. Also, will it work on Lenovo PCs with security chips?
If you played WoW with the same PC, you'll probably won't have any issues. WoW uses a similar program called Warden.
I'm sorry if this is a Noobish question but this is the first time I've heard of it and I was interested in playing AION.
How risky is GameGuard to Privacy/Security and will it uninstall cleanly? I use my PC for work and something that gets down to BIOS level and shuts down USB stuff sounds really really bad. Also, will it work on Lenovo PCs with security chips?
Under no circumstances should you install any game which uses GameGuard on a computer used for work or with important documents on. Not only does it disable your Antivirus/protection software making your system vunerable, but it is also very hard to delete once you unistall the game. It always leaves behind files which are very hard to track down and get rid of. If you want to play Aion then I suggest using a different computer that you don't use for work.
To the poster above, the Warden system in WoW is nothing compared to GG.. It doesn't have any rootkits that accesses your BIOS and it doesn't conflict and disable Anti Virus software and other legitimate programs, it just checks running processes. It unistalls at same time as WoW aswell and doesn't leave files behind to cause more trouble once the game goes. Unlike Aion, the WoW programmers actually know how to secure their game from the design stage not at the last moment.
I'm sorry if this is a Noobish question but this is the first time I've heard of it and I was interested in playing AION.
How risky is GameGuard to Privacy/Security and will it uninstall cleanly? I use my PC for work and something that gets down to BIOS level and shuts down USB stuff sounds really really bad. Also, will it work on Lenovo PCs with security chips?
Under no circumstances should you install any game which uses GameGuard on a computer used for work or with important documents on. Not only does it disable your Antivirus/protection software making your system vunerable, but it is also very hard to delete once you unistall the game. It always leaves behind files which are very hard to track down and get rid of. If you want to play Aion then I suggest using a different computer that you don't use for work.
To the poster above, the Warden system in WoW is nothing compared to GG.. It doesn't have any rootkits that accesses your BIOS and it doesn't conflict and disable Anti Virus software and other legitimate programs, it just checks running processes. It unistalls at same time as WoW aswell and doesn't leave files behind to cause more trouble once the game goes. Unlike Aion, the WoW programmers actually know how to secure their game from the design stage not at the last moment.
This.
X always tries to imply there are no differences in professional designs and management.
As a matter of fact: the differences in handling MMO's vary immensly from game to game and just like any other quality product: you get what you get.
Blizzard or a Korean copycat that wants a piece of the Goldmine Blizzard. You pick and bare the consequences.
LOL! What a bunch of bull.
I played TCOS a while ago and some other games that use Game Guard and I had never any issues at all!
The only thing it did on my system is kill the connection of MSN Messenger, wich is perfectly understandable.
I've run it with both Avast Home Edition and McAfee and both continued to work perfectly fine while GameGuard was active, while I played the game.
But then again... I dont browse porn. I don't download illegal crap from all kinds of dubious hackers and crackers sites. And install all kinds of other crap on my system.
If you have a clean, mallware and crap free system and don't run a crap AntiVirus product that is known to be the plague like Norton!!! Then you shouldn't have any issues with GameGuard at all.
I'm sorry if this is a Noobish question but this is the first time I've heard of it and I was interested in playing AION.
How risky is GameGuard to Privacy/Security and will it uninstall cleanly? I use my PC for work and something that gets down to BIOS level and shuts down USB stuff sounds really really bad. Also, will it work on Lenovo PCs with security chips?
Under no circumstances should you install any game which uses GameGuard on a computer used for work or with important documents on. Not only does it disable your Antivirus/protection software making your system vunerable, but it is also very hard to delete once you unistall the game. It always leaves behind files which are very hard to track down and get rid of. If you want to play Aion then I suggest using a different computer that you don't use for work.
To the poster above, the Warden system in WoW is nothing compared to GG.. It doesn't have any rootkits that accesses your BIOS and it doesn't conflict and disable Anti Virus software and other legitimate programs, it just checks running processes. It unistalls at same time as WoW aswell and doesn't leave files behind to cause more trouble once the game goes. Unlike Aion, the WoW programmers actually know how to secure their game from the design stage not at the last moment.
This.
X always tries to imply there are no differences in professional designs and management.
As a matter of fact: the differences in handling MMO's vary immensly from game to game and just like any other quality product: you get what you get.
Blizzard or a Korean copycat that wants a piece of the Goldmine Blizzard. You pick and bare the consequences.
LOL! What a bunch of bull.
I played TCOS a while ago and some other games that use Game Guard and I had never any issues at all!
The only thing it did on my system is kill the connection of MSN Messenger, wich is perfectly understandable.
I've run it with both Avast Home Edition and McAfee and both continued to work perfectly fine while GameGuard was active, while I played the game.
But then again... I dont browse porn. I don't download illegal crap from all kinds of dubious hackers and crackers sites. And install all kinds of other crap on my system.
If you have a clean, mallware and crap free system and don't run a crap AntiVirus product that is known to be the plague like Norton!!! Then you shouldn't have any issues with GameGuard at all.
Cheers
I'm sure the reason I'm having problems with Gameguard is because I use software from a shady company called Google. It will also kill any "malware" from the company known as VMWare, in this case VMWare Workstation. Gameguard also protects you by preventing other applications from trying to launch crap like notepad, the most well-known malware of all time. If you're lucky and the game you're playing crashes you can be sure gameguard will continue protecting you from the applications you want to use until you manually kill it.
Just because you only use your computer to play games and watch porn (while denying doing so) doesn't mean the rest of us don't use ours for more than that.
I'm sorry if this is a Noobish question but this is the first time I've heard of it and I was interested in playing AION.
How risky is GameGuard to Privacy/Security and will it uninstall cleanly? I use my PC for work and something that gets down to BIOS level and shuts down USB stuff sounds really really bad. Also, will it work on Lenovo PCs with security chips?
Under no circumstances should you install any game which uses GameGuard on a computer used for work or with important documents on. Not only does it disable your Antivirus/protection software making your system vunerable, but it is also very hard to delete once you unistall the game. It always leaves behind files which are very hard to track down and get rid of. If you want to play Aion then I suggest using a different computer that you don't use for work.
To the poster above, the Warden system in WoW is nothing compared to GG.. It doesn't have any rootkits that accesses your BIOS and it doesn't conflict and disable Anti Virus software and other legitimate programs, it just checks running processes. It unistalls at same time as WoW aswell and doesn't leave files behind to cause more trouble once the game goes. Unlike Aion, the WoW programmers actually know how to secure their game from the design stage not at the last moment.
This.
X always tries to imply there are no differences in professional designs and management.
As a matter of fact: the differences in handling MMO's vary immensly from game to game and just like any other quality product: you get what you get.
Blizzard or a Korean copycat that wants a piece of the Goldmine Blizzard. You pick and bare the consequences.
LOL! What a bunch of bull.
I played TCOS a while ago and some other games that use Game Guard and I had never any issues at all!
The only thing it did on my system is kill the connection of MSN Messenger, wich is perfectly understandable.
I've run it with both Avast Home Edition and McAfee and both continued to work perfectly fine while GameGuard was active, while I played the game.
But then again... I dont browse porn. I don't download illegal crap from all kinds of dubious hackers and crackers sites. And install all kinds of other crap on my system.
If you have a clean, mallware and crap free system and don't run a crap AntiVirus product that is known to be the plague like Norton!!! Then you shouldn't have any issues with GameGuard at all.
Cheers
In your case you are no doubt correct. It has been repeatedly stated that SOME people have little to no problems. If you have had no problems, then you are among that lucky group. Others on the other hand are not so fortunate. As for your last, if you really can't see the implications of the *methods* used by Gameguard for people who have different system configurations, perhaps you should educate yourself before exposing your ignorance next time?
LOL! What a bunch of bull. I played TCOS a while ago and some other games that use Game Guard and I had never any issues at all! The only thing it did on my system is kill the connection of MSN Messenger, wich is perfectly understandable. I've run it with both Avast Home Edition and McAfee and both continued to work perfectly fine while GameGuard was active, while I played the game. But then again... I dont browse porn. I don't download illegal crap from all kinds of dubious hackers and crackers sites. And install all kinds of other crap on my system. If you have a clean, mallware and crap free system and don't run a crap AntiVirus product that is known to be the plague like Norton!!! Then you shouldn't have any issues with GameGuard at all. Cheers
In your case you are no doubt correct. It has been repeatedly stated that SOME people have little to no problems. If you have had no problems, then you are among that lucky group. Others on the other hand are not so fortunate. As for your last, if you really can't see the implications of the *methods* used by Gameguard for people who have different system configurations, perhaps you should educate yourself before exposing your ignorance next time?
Maybe you should get your own facts straight, before insulting me or anyone else of ignorance and blaming us being uneducated, while it's clearly you who should take a good look in the mirror!
Seeing how many games uses GameGuard and how many people are playing these games without any issues. It's more like the other way around. That the MAJORITY have no issues, and that SOME people have actual problems!
If it was like you were saying, than all of those game companies would have gone either bankrupt and nProtect being bankrupt long time ago!!
So please, stop making such a drama out of all this! Just check the GameGuard wiki page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NProtect_GameGuard ) and there you will find a list with wich programs might be affected by Gameguard.
You won't hear me praising GameGuard. As I think some things could be done less intrusive or different. But to make such a drama over Gameguard.... tjeez! Give me a break!
I played TCOS a while ago and some other games that use Game Guard and I had never any issues at all!
The only thing it did on my system is kill the connection of MSN Messenger, wich is perfectly understandable.
I've run it with both Avast Home Edition and McAfee and both continued to work perfectly fine while GameGuard was active, while I played the game.
But then again... I dont browse porn. I don't download illegal crap from all kinds of dubious hackers and crackers sites. And install all kinds of other crap on my system.
If you have a clean, mallware and crap free system and don't run a crap AntiVirus product that is known to be the plague like Norton!!! Then you shouldn't have any issues with GameGuard at all.
Cheers
So you don't have a problem with a piece of software that tells you you can and can't use on your computer? You can't even use MSN while playing and you don't have a problem with that? You don't find it a problem that it can change BIOS settings? You don't have a problem with it shutting down AntiVirus programs such as Norton, which comes preinstalled on most new computers (yea it's crap, but better than having none at all). You don't have a problem with it not unistalling like every other normal program?
I know I have a problem with all those things. It's my computer and sure as hell I'm not going to have a piece of software telling me how I can and can't use it. Sure a lot of people don't see any problems with it, but most don't know that they'll have it installed on their computers until a fresh reformat. It's a total gamble which hardware/software configuration will have trouble with it and it really says something about Aions devs.
Just a follow on to the post after looking at the wikki page you linked, here are some of the apps that it does block (cheers for the link, makes things pretty clear):
ATI Tray Tools (for ATI graphics cards)
Daemon Tools
FileZilla
Google Chrome
Kaspersky 2010 (one of the best AV around atm)
Logitech G-series Keyboard Profiler
Media Player Classic
Razer
Steam
Witht he exception of the keyboard, I have all those installed on my computer. How anyone could put up with a software program preventing you from using any of these is beyond me.This is just some of the, full list at the wiki page provided a bit earlier.
I played TCOS a while ago and some other games that use Game Guard and I had never any issues at all!
The only thing it did on my system is kill the connection of MSN Messenger, wich is perfectly understandable.
I've run it with both Avast Home Edition and McAfee and both continued to work perfectly fine while GameGuard was active, while I played the game.
But then again... I dont browse porn. I don't download illegal crap from all kinds of dubious hackers and crackers sites. And install all kinds of other crap on my system.
If you have a clean, mallware and crap free system and don't run a crap AntiVirus product that is known to be the plague like Norton!!! Then you shouldn't have any issues with GameGuard at all.
Cheers
So you don't have a problem with a piece of software that tells you you can and can't use on your computer? You can't even use MSN while playing and you don't have a problem with that? You don't find it a problem that it can change BIOS settings? You don't have a problem with it shutting down AntiVirus programs such as Norton, which comes preinstalled on most new computers (yea it's crap, but better than having none at all). You don't have a problem with it not unistalling like every other normal program?
I know I have a problem with all those things. It's my computer and sure as hell I'm not going to have a piece of software telling me how I can and can't use it. Sure a lot of people don't see any problems with it, but most don't know that they'll have it installed on their computers until a fresh reformat. It's a total gamble which hardware/software configuration will have trouble with it and it really says something about Aions devs.
It's not uninstalling anything. It just prevents it from running WHEN Gameguard is active. Meaning, WHEN you are playing!
And no I am not bothered that I cannot use MSN while I am playing. Especially as I always play in FULLSCREEN, like the majority, Im not using MSN anyway.
In fact, shutting down MSN completely usually improves your games performance a bit as well
It doesn't change your BIOS settings. That's just utter BULL!
You know what you should REALLY fear? All the crap you install. Hacks, cheats, botting programs. All that kind of crap is really intrusive and far worse then GameGuard ever will be.
And think for a moment WHY Gameguard does what it does? And goes so low level into your system?
Because that's the level most of the hacks, cheats and botting programs ALSO operate!
If you want to trully talk about crap and dangerous software that caused a true scandal. Try this:
If Gameguard would come any near to that kind of crap, then all those games running GameGuard, would have either removed GameGuard long long time ago, or they would have been bankrupt by now and those games no longer running!
Aion would have been shutdown in Asia by now, if you would be right.
All this panic makes me really laugh. As all people I know I play games with, all have played or still playing games that used/uses Gameguard and NONE of them had any issues whatsoever!
Comments
I've been doing a bit more research on GG and apparently if you are using Avast AV you my have to disable it to play Aion... so you're running without Antivirus protection (about 80% of the people seem to be having this issue). So, if you are also having Firewall issues with GG and you need to turn that off you have a completely unprotected computer while gaming...
I use Vista and have never had issues with GameGuard except for the fact that the first time I load it up for a new game I have to acknowledge four or five goddamn times that "Yes, I'm sure I really want to run this program". Other than that it's always worked fine for me.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Same, im using Windows 7 x64 and I ahhve firewall and anti-virus, and up until now i just installed and run the game with absolutely no problems
Same, im using Windows 7 x64 and I ahhve firewall and anti-virus, and up until now i just installed and run the game with absolutely no problems
It seems to depend on what components are installed on a given system. I tried it and it got into a knock down drag out fight with my firewall/security suite. (Commodo) and bit defender 2009, Vista 64 SP1. Be that as it may, game software doesn't need the additional "issues" involved in using such a poorly coded app. The Asian suits need to get over their short term approach to these matters. Game security needs to be addressed at the very start of design, not as an after thought, with a feel good bandaid like Gameguard. Not only is it intrusive, its ineffective. It results in much more technical support usuage, not to mention the bad PR that modern western games simply can NOT afford.
Yes they do. I went against my better judgement as a beta tester and loaded it up. I could not take anymore as this game is just not for me. However, game guard is still a malware/rootkit nightmare and caused many issues in my very clean system.
Ive heard nightmare stories about GG and securerom but have never seen them. Just what issues do you have?
I have personally never had a single issue with GameGuard. Of course, I'm not trying to macro or bot either.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
They pay a third party because it is more efficient than dedicating an in house anti-hack team.
Or would you rather the in house programmers stop working on bug fixes, new features, and content updates every time a new hack comes out?
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Yes they do. I went against my better judgement as a beta tester and loaded it up. I could not take anymore as this game is just not for me. However, game guard is still a malware/rootkit nightmare and caused many issues in my very clean system.
Ive heard nightmare stories about GG and securerom but have never seen them. Just what issues do you have?
I have personally never had a single issue with GameGuard. Of course, I'm not trying to macro or bot either.
Interesting implication. So, only those who "macro or bot" have problems with Gameguard? In reality, Gameguard and other such third party apps are VERY ineffective at keeping such types at bay. One has only to look at Linage2 or other such games to know that reality. MMO software is much more than complex enough, without adding poorly coded apps like Gameguard to the mix.
They pay a third party because it is more efficient than dedicating an in house anti-hack team.
Or would you rather the in house programmers stop working on bug fixes, new features, and content updates every time a new hack comes out?
Nonsense. If a game is properly designed and coded, it wouldn't need a feel good bandaid like gameguard. Gameguards main appeal is to the companies suits, who are looking for a one stop, feel good bandaid to address issues that should have been dealt with from the very start of design. Its use also adds a large amount of work to the technical support department, who have to untangle the conflicts between it and countless legitimate apps running on various OS's.
They pay a third party because it is more efficient than dedicating an in house anti-hack team.
Or would you rather the in house programmers stop working on bug fixes, new features, and content updates every time a new hack comes out?
Nonsense. If a game is properly designed and coded, it wouldn't need a feel good bandaid like gameguard. Gameguards main appeal is to the companies suits, who are looking for a one stop, feel good bandaid to address issues that should have been dealt with from the very start of design. Its use also adds a large amount of work to the technical support department, who have to untangle the conflicts between it and countless legitimate apps running on various OS's.
If just spending a little extra effort was all it took to make programs secure I'm sure the internet security problems would have been solved long ago. The truth is, even a team a dedicated specialist will NEVER block all possible hacks. The manpower and resources hackers can collectively throw at cheating far exceeds what a game company (or any other software company) is capable of defeating. Even full time security firms working are projects far more important than a game are unable to block all hackers. (You know, banks, goverment agencies, major corporations guarding sensitive material, they all wish it was as simple as just dedicating a few programmers to the task.)
And who is going to be more skilled at avoiding conflicts with all those countless apps. A game designer who only sometimes works to patch hacks or a programmer that specializes in it?
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
They pay a third party because it is more efficient than dedicating an in house anti-hack team.
Or would you rather the in house programmers stop working on bug fixes, new features, and content updates every time a new hack comes out?
Nonsense. If a game is properly designed and coded, it wouldn't need a feel good bandaid like gameguard. Gameguards main appeal is to the companies suits, who are looking for a one stop, feel good bandaid to address issues that should have been dealt with from the very start of design. Its use also adds a large amount of work to the technical support department, who have to untangle the conflicts between it and countless legitimate apps running on various OS's.
If just spending a little extra effort was all it took to make programs secure I'm sure the internet security problems would have been solved long ago. The truth is, even a team a dedicated specialist will NEVER block all possible hacks. The manpower and resources hackers can collectively throw at cheating far exceeds what a game company (or any other software company) is capable of defeating. Even full time security firms working are projects far more important than a game are unable to block all hackers. (You know, banks, goverment agencies, major corporations guarding sensitive material, they all wish it was as simple as just dedicating a few programmers to the task.)
And who is going to be more skilled at avoiding conflicts with all those countless apps. A game designer who only sometimes works to patch hacks or a programmer that specializes in it?
Thats a red herring. One doesn't need to stop ALL hacks. In fact as you point out thats pretty much impossible. But neither should one leave client/server side security to third parties. They lack the depth of understanding of the code base that in house personnel possess, and they also tend not to be nearly as timely in their response to on going problems. If one is going to obsess about *game* security to the extent that many Asian suits do, one would be better served to deal with the majority of such issues in the design phase. As for the last, one has only to look at the endless troubles that Gameguard and its ilk cause, and the slow pace with which such are resolved to understand why its not a good approach. Its bad design, its bad policy and its bad PR.
I'm sorry if this is a Noobish question but this is the first time I've heard of it and I was interested in playing AION.
How risky is GameGuard to Privacy/Security and will it uninstall cleanly? I use my PC for work and something that gets down to BIOS level and shuts down USB stuff sounds really really bad.
Also, will it work on Lenovo PCs with security chips?
Well... You see thats part of the problem. Some people(with certain configurations) have no trouble. Some with slightly different configs have minor problems. Some people on the other hand have major system crashing problems. There is really no way of knowing before hand. Which is one of the reasons that this is a POOR choice for a game company to make. One shouldn't have to gamble with game software running or crashing ones system. As for the Lenovo with security chips, I have no experience with that(sorry). But if its firmware prevents certain types of intrusive actions, it will likely conflict with some of GameGuards antics. Which could lead to either the game not running, or the conflict locking up your system.
GG will takes pictures of you while you sleep and post them on the internets , and kick your dog too , probably .
If you played WoW with the same PC, you'll probably won't have any issues. WoW uses a similar program called Warden.
Yes, it uses game guard. No, it isn't effective, since you can disable it pretty easily.
The real solution is to make more checks server side.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Under no circumstances should you install any game which uses GameGuard on a computer used for work or with important documents on. Not only does it disable your Antivirus/protection software making your system vunerable, but it is also very hard to delete once you unistall the game. It always leaves behind files which are very hard to track down and get rid of. If you want to play Aion then I suggest using a different computer that you don't use for work.
To the poster above, the Warden system in WoW is nothing compared to GG.. It doesn't have any rootkits that accesses your BIOS and it doesn't conflict and disable Anti Virus software and other legitimate programs, it just checks running processes. It unistalls at same time as WoW aswell and doesn't leave files behind to cause more trouble once the game goes. Unlike Aion, the WoW programmers actually know how to secure their game from the design stage not at the last moment.
Perhaps, but I doubt it. Isn't that your bridge I hear calling your name?
Under no circumstances should you install any game which uses GameGuard on a computer used for work or with important documents on. Not only does it disable your Antivirus/protection software making your system vunerable, but it is also very hard to delete once you unistall the game. It always leaves behind files which are very hard to track down and get rid of. If you want to play Aion then I suggest using a different computer that you don't use for work.
To the poster above, the Warden system in WoW is nothing compared to GG.. It doesn't have any rootkits that accesses your BIOS and it doesn't conflict and disable Anti Virus software and other legitimate programs, it just checks running processes. It unistalls at same time as WoW aswell and doesn't leave files behind to cause more trouble once the game goes. Unlike Aion, the WoW programmers actually know how to secure their game from the design stage not at the last moment.
This.
X always tries to imply there are no differences in professional designs and management.
As a matter of fact: the differences in handling MMO's vary immensly from game to game and just like any other quality product: you get what you get.
Blizzard or a Korean copycat that wants a piece of the Goldmine Blizzard. You pick and bare the consequences.
LOL! What a bunch of bull.
I played TCOS a while ago and some other games that use Game Guard and I had never any issues at all!
The only thing it did on my system is kill the connection of MSN Messenger, wich is perfectly understandable.
I've run it with both Avast Home Edition and McAfee and both continued to work perfectly fine while GameGuard was active, while I played the game.
But then again... I dont browse porn. I don't download illegal crap from all kinds of dubious hackers and crackers sites. And install all kinds of other crap on my system.
If you have a clean, mallware and crap free system and don't run a crap AntiVirus product that is known to be the plague like Norton!!! Then you shouldn't have any issues with GameGuard at all.
Cheers
Under no circumstances should you install any game which uses GameGuard on a computer used for work or with important documents on. Not only does it disable your Antivirus/protection software making your system vunerable, but it is also very hard to delete once you unistall the game. It always leaves behind files which are very hard to track down and get rid of. If you want to play Aion then I suggest using a different computer that you don't use for work.
To the poster above, the Warden system in WoW is nothing compared to GG.. It doesn't have any rootkits that accesses your BIOS and it doesn't conflict and disable Anti Virus software and other legitimate programs, it just checks running processes. It unistalls at same time as WoW aswell and doesn't leave files behind to cause more trouble once the game goes. Unlike Aion, the WoW programmers actually know how to secure their game from the design stage not at the last moment.
This.
X always tries to imply there are no differences in professional designs and management.
As a matter of fact: the differences in handling MMO's vary immensly from game to game and just like any other quality product: you get what you get.
Blizzard or a Korean copycat that wants a piece of the Goldmine Blizzard. You pick and bare the consequences.
LOL! What a bunch of bull.
I played TCOS a while ago and some other games that use Game Guard and I had never any issues at all!
The only thing it did on my system is kill the connection of MSN Messenger, wich is perfectly understandable.
I've run it with both Avast Home Edition and McAfee and both continued to work perfectly fine while GameGuard was active, while I played the game.
But then again... I dont browse porn. I don't download illegal crap from all kinds of dubious hackers and crackers sites. And install all kinds of other crap on my system.
If you have a clean, mallware and crap free system and don't run a crap AntiVirus product that is known to be the plague like Norton!!! Then you shouldn't have any issues with GameGuard at all.
Cheers
I'm sure the reason I'm having problems with Gameguard is because I use software from a shady company called Google. It will also kill any "malware" from the company known as VMWare, in this case VMWare Workstation. Gameguard also protects you by preventing other applications from trying to launch crap like notepad, the most well-known malware of all time. If you're lucky and the game you're playing crashes you can be sure gameguard will continue protecting you from the applications you want to use until you manually kill it.
Just because you only use your computer to play games and watch porn (while denying doing so) doesn't mean the rest of us don't use ours for more than that.
Under no circumstances should you install any game which uses GameGuard on a computer used for work or with important documents on. Not only does it disable your Antivirus/protection software making your system vunerable, but it is also very hard to delete once you unistall the game. It always leaves behind files which are very hard to track down and get rid of. If you want to play Aion then I suggest using a different computer that you don't use for work.
To the poster above, the Warden system in WoW is nothing compared to GG.. It doesn't have any rootkits that accesses your BIOS and it doesn't conflict and disable Anti Virus software and other legitimate programs, it just checks running processes. It unistalls at same time as WoW aswell and doesn't leave files behind to cause more trouble once the game goes. Unlike Aion, the WoW programmers actually know how to secure their game from the design stage not at the last moment.
This.
X always tries to imply there are no differences in professional designs and management.
As a matter of fact: the differences in handling MMO's vary immensly from game to game and just like any other quality product: you get what you get.
Blizzard or a Korean copycat that wants a piece of the Goldmine Blizzard. You pick and bare the consequences.
LOL! What a bunch of bull.
I played TCOS a while ago and some other games that use Game Guard and I had never any issues at all!
The only thing it did on my system is kill the connection of MSN Messenger, wich is perfectly understandable.
I've run it with both Avast Home Edition and McAfee and both continued to work perfectly fine while GameGuard was active, while I played the game.
But then again... I dont browse porn. I don't download illegal crap from all kinds of dubious hackers and crackers sites. And install all kinds of other crap on my system.
If you have a clean, mallware and crap free system and don't run a crap AntiVirus product that is known to be the plague like Norton!!! Then you shouldn't have any issues with GameGuard at all.
Cheers
In your case you are no doubt correct. It has been repeatedly stated that SOME people have little to no problems. If you have had no problems, then you are among that lucky group. Others on the other hand are not so fortunate. As for your last, if you really can't see the implications of the *methods* used by Gameguard for people who have different system configurations, perhaps you should educate yourself before exposing your ignorance next time?
In your case you are no doubt correct. It has been repeatedly stated that SOME people have little to no problems. If you have had no problems, then you are among that lucky group. Others on the other hand are not so fortunate. As for your last, if you really can't see the implications of the *methods* used by Gameguard for people who have different system configurations, perhaps you should educate yourself before exposing your ignorance next time?
Maybe you should get your own facts straight, before insulting me or anyone else of ignorance and blaming us being uneducated, while it's clearly you who should take a good look in the mirror!
Seeing how many games uses GameGuard and how many people are playing these games without any issues. It's more like the other way around. That the MAJORITY have no issues, and that SOME people have actual problems!
If it was like you were saying, than all of those game companies would have gone either bankrupt and nProtect being bankrupt long time ago!!
So please, stop making such a drama out of all this! Just check the GameGuard wiki page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NProtect_GameGuard ) and there you will find a list with wich programs might be affected by Gameguard.
You won't hear me praising GameGuard. As I think some things could be done less intrusive or different. But to make such a drama over Gameguard.... tjeez! Give me a break!
Cheers
LOL! What a bunch of bull.
I played TCOS a while ago and some other games that use Game Guard and I had never any issues at all!
The only thing it did on my system is kill the connection of MSN Messenger, wich is perfectly understandable.
I've run it with both Avast Home Edition and McAfee and both continued to work perfectly fine while GameGuard was active, while I played the game.
But then again... I dont browse porn. I don't download illegal crap from all kinds of dubious hackers and crackers sites. And install all kinds of other crap on my system.
If you have a clean, mallware and crap free system and don't run a crap AntiVirus product that is known to be the plague like Norton!!! Then you shouldn't have any issues with GameGuard at all.
Cheers
So you don't have a problem with a piece of software that tells you you can and can't use on your computer? You can't even use MSN while playing and you don't have a problem with that? You don't find it a problem that it can change BIOS settings? You don't have a problem with it shutting down AntiVirus programs such as Norton, which comes preinstalled on most new computers (yea it's crap, but better than having none at all). You don't have a problem with it not unistalling like every other normal program?
I know I have a problem with all those things. It's my computer and sure as hell I'm not going to have a piece of software telling me how I can and can't use it. Sure a lot of people don't see any problems with it, but most don't know that they'll have it installed on their computers until a fresh reformat. It's a total gamble which hardware/software configuration will have trouble with it and it really says something about Aions devs.
Just a follow on to the post after looking at the wikki page you linked, here are some of the apps that it does block (cheers for the link, makes things pretty clear):
ATI Tray Tools (for ATI graphics cards)
Daemon Tools
FileZilla
Google Chrome
Kaspersky 2010 (one of the best AV around atm)
Logitech G-series Keyboard Profiler
Media Player Classic
Razer
Steam
Witht he exception of the keyboard, I have all those installed on my computer. How anyone could put up with a software program preventing you from using any of these is beyond me.This is just some of the, full list at the wiki page provided a bit earlier.
Yes, sir this is a game guard game =P
Forever With You...
LOL! What a bunch of bull.
I played TCOS a while ago and some other games that use Game Guard and I had never any issues at all!
The only thing it did on my system is kill the connection of MSN Messenger, wich is perfectly understandable.
I've run it with both Avast Home Edition and McAfee and both continued to work perfectly fine while GameGuard was active, while I played the game.
But then again... I dont browse porn. I don't download illegal crap from all kinds of dubious hackers and crackers sites. And install all kinds of other crap on my system.
If you have a clean, mallware and crap free system and don't run a crap AntiVirus product that is known to be the plague like Norton!!! Then you shouldn't have any issues with GameGuard at all.
Cheers
So you don't have a problem with a piece of software that tells you you can and can't use on your computer? You can't even use MSN while playing and you don't have a problem with that? You don't find it a problem that it can change BIOS settings? You don't have a problem with it shutting down AntiVirus programs such as Norton, which comes preinstalled on most new computers (yea it's crap, but better than having none at all). You don't have a problem with it not unistalling like every other normal program?
I know I have a problem with all those things. It's my computer and sure as hell I'm not going to have a piece of software telling me how I can and can't use it. Sure a lot of people don't see any problems with it, but most don't know that they'll have it installed on their computers until a fresh reformat. It's a total gamble which hardware/software configuration will have trouble with it and it really says something about Aions devs.
It's not uninstalling anything. It just prevents it from running WHEN Gameguard is active. Meaning, WHEN you are playing!
And no I am not bothered that I cannot use MSN while I am playing. Especially as I always play in FULLSCREEN, like the majority, Im not using MSN anyway.
In fact, shutting down MSN completely usually improves your games performance a bit as well
It doesn't change your BIOS settings. That's just utter BULL!
You know what you should REALLY fear? All the crap you install. Hacks, cheats, botting programs. All that kind of crap is really intrusive and far worse then GameGuard ever will be.
And think for a moment WHY Gameguard does what it does? And goes so low level into your system?
Because that's the level most of the hacks, cheats and botting programs ALSO operate!
If you want to trully talk about crap and dangerous software that caused a true scandal. Try this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_CD_copy_protection_scandal
If Gameguard would come any near to that kind of crap, then all those games running GameGuard, would have either removed GameGuard long long time ago, or they would have been bankrupt by now and those games no longer running!
Aion would have been shutdown in Asia by now, if you would be right.
All this panic makes me really laugh. As all people I know I play games with, all have played or still playing games that used/uses Gameguard and NONE of them had any issues whatsoever!
And plenty of them had ATi cards too
Cheers