Xp was fine, people who are proclaiming the death of the game , are idiots. Anyone who is going to listen to idiots, really shouldn't play Champions Online. Maybe this will be the second game in my collection to finally have an idiotless community. Woot ! Have fun in WoW grinding to yet another level increase Also , like someone else said, the XP increase was to getpeople through as much content as possible for open beta. Most smart people know this, obvious there is not a lot of smart people posting today.
I don't know about "idiots" on this one... seems most complaints are legit too me... just people are a bit disilusioned by game companies releasing too early and that seems to be the case in this day and age. Seems like most games out there are rushed way too early with less and less quality control.
I don't think ppl here are itdiots, they are just tired of getting Flagshipped. And that gets people to be cynical and pessimistic... not idiotic.
The XP nerf isn't a nerf. It was a special accellerated rate of exp gain for the open beta in order to allow players to see more of the game. This isn't a new concept, and getting angry or worried about what is, in truth, exp returning to normal gains is just foolish. However, that doesn't address some of the larger issues with CO.
Flat out wrong. The XP rate before the change was what we were getting in CB. Show me exactly where they said they were putting this excelerated rate of XP gain in for OB please?
Also, in order to keep misinformation down, this is what Antiproton said about the change:
"People seem to be trying to spin things into doom and gloom, I'm not sure how the misinterpretations are occurring, but hopefully this can clear things up a bit:
1) The Tutorial is close to where we want it, folks are mostly level 4 at the end, they need to be hitting level 5, so we need to adjust it up to hit that target. If everybody was level 2 instead of 5 I would have said it was way off, but instead it is close but tweakable. Note that close to where we want it is NOT the same as where we want it.
2) we were happy with the rate in the Tutorial and fine with the rate in the tutorial, it was the later part of the game where things went off track from what we wanted. One can make guesses as to some likely changes in our xp behaviour between now and launch based on that info and the explicit statements I've made today.
3) We're datamining today's play, checking to see what effect the changes have, that will allow us to get the rate correct, we have 2 numbers currently: Our expected rate of progress through content and the actual rate. Tomorrow we will have 2 more sets of numbers: Our expected rate of progress with the change, and the actual rate. That will enable us to fine tune every single level to the place we want it to be since we know in a statistically meaningful sense what effect our % adjustment had.
This is how you tune a system like this, this is what large scale betas are for. The goal is to make the game fun to play for the long term, not to make it a 3 day blast to maxlevel and then burnout, and not to make it a 2 year grind. Progression needs to happen at a carefully balanced rate. Yes we are concerned about making sure the content matches the xp curve. Yes we are concerned about making the xp rate right. Yes we want the tutorial to play out in a particular pattern.
We're not trying to ruin the game for anybody, we're trying to make sure it is fun."
"As you may have noticed, we've been using this period of Open Beta to test out our balancing, levelling and overall combat systems. There was a change last night to do one last set of testing and unfortunately we were not able to get the proper messaging up in time to warn you of these changes. You are reasonably upset and we understand.
Antiproton, one of our combat designers has been on the message boards this afternoon trying to let everyone know what is going on. The truth is that this was a test. This is most likely not going to be the end result. However we needed these large scale numbers to determine what the best metric would be. Please be patient with us during this time. We don't want you to spend your time grinding rather than having fun and in order to make sure that doesn't happen, a few tweaks need to be made before we open the servers to our paying customers.
I want to ensure you that in the future, any changes happening in the game will be messaged to you. We are striving toward more development transparency and open communication so that we can ensure that your playing experience in our games is more enjoyable."
Unlike CoX , you aren't running the same instance over and over again, the only people who are leaving in droves are the ones who wheren't going to play in the first place. Think WoW fans have the best "doom and gloom" speechs ready on a copy and past.
That's fair but just remember I'm not a WoW fan. I play EVE online. But yes I did play WoW for a year when it launched so go ahead throw me in the cooking pot I guess if you want. So yes maybe WoW / EVE spoiled me rotten but there will also be a crapload of other people with diapers like me that will cry a river too
Xp was fine, people who are proclaiming the death of the game , are idiots. Anyone who is going to listen to idiots, really shouldn't play Champions Online. Maybe this will be the second game in my collection to finally have an idiotless community. Woot ! Have fun in WoW grinding to yet another level increase Also , like someone else said, the XP increase was to getpeople through as much content as possible for open beta. Most smart people know this, obvious there is not a lot of smart people posting today.
I don't know about "idiots" on this one... seems most complaints are legit too me... just people are a bit disilusioned by game companies releasing too early and that seems to be the case in this day and age. Seems like most games out there are rushed way too early with less and less quality control.
I don't think ppl here are itdiots, they are just tired of getting Flagshipped. And that gets people to be cynical and pessimistic... not idiotic.
Took the words right out of my mouth....er fingers....w/e.
Honestly what 'ruined' CO for me was the fact they are going to be P2P AND have a cash shop type dealy going on, (will have to read a lot more on it, but if it is a deal where you have to pay extra to get to more content so-to-speak then screw 'em) .....blew me away and made me feel like they are a very greedy bunch. I play WoW but still don't feel robbed when 'I' decide to spend that extra 25 bucks for a character change. But that's neither here nor there.....obviously.
I agree that games these days are rushed because of the high demand of 'players' wanting something 'new' ALL the time....what, we all have ADHD? (or whatever it is) I know I have a short attention span for the most part so am always eager for 'more' but damn.....take the time to actually make something I would like to stick with ya know? Not to flame anyone but if you cannot tell the difference between legit concerns and flat out idiotic ones, then someone has issues. -.-
Xp was fine, people who are proclaiming the death of the game , are idiots. Anyone who is going to listen to idiots, really shouldn't play Champions Online. Maybe this will be the second game in my collection to finally have an idiotless community. Woot ! Have fun in WoW grinding to yet another level increase Also , like someone else said, the XP increase was to getpeople through as much content as possible for open beta. Most smart people know this, obvious there is not a lot of smart people posting today.
It also fits perfectly with only having quests 2-3 levels above you and getting rewards you can't use, because they are too high a level.
If that is how the game is really meant to be, I say stay away from it.
Funny how the smart of us has read the dev postings and know the xp nerf was a test, so we don't go yabber on a forum about the beta having bonus xp and this new xp is how it is supposed to be (because it is not, according to Antiproton, http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?p=783985#post783985).
----------------
I'm not happy with the new xp value and I think it is daft to test it so late. But since it is a test, I have faith they will adjust it to a level they want, which is probably somewhere between before and now.
Unlike CoX , you aren't running the same instance over and over again, the only people who are leaving in droves are the ones who wheren't going to play in the first place. Think WoW fans have the best "doom and gloom" speechs ready on a copy and past.
That's fair but just remember I'm not a WoW fan. I play EVE online. But yes I did play WoW for a year when it launched so go ahead throw me in the cooking pot I guess if you want. So yes maybe WoW / EVE spoiled me rotten but there will also be a crapload of other people with diapers like me that will cry a river too
Spoiled rotten, or perhaps you've played games that have set the bar for you? My bar was set by TERA Online, so now I compare most game graphics and animation to the alpha boss footage released a few months back. As for gameplay, and though I feel flagshipped by Bill Roper... I have to admit gameplay-wise that bar was set by Hellgate. So now I compare most rps and mmo's to how fast and responsive the gameplay is to Hellgate.
I understand totally by what you mean by spoiled. And, that my friend is what should set the bar for you in regards to future releases.
They claim XP nerf was a test. That is link to developer post.
It might have been a test, but what was it testing?
The game has a max lvl of 40 This is a low cap.. At the rate you were lvling before it was far to easy (sure it was kinda fun) but when quests start turning grey because you are lvling way to fast there needs to be a nerf .
Just remember Cryptic loves to raise the level cap to 50 with expansions. they've done it with CoH and CoV. It was tough going from 40->50 in CoV but at least we had missions that were given to us at 'our level'
right now I am seeing a bunch of Level 12s farming Desert. Recall Desert is like a L10 area. But we all are forced to go there for the quests. Mobs only give like 5xp and it took me like 20k xp to hit L13. Now I got 65k xp left to grind and the mobs will still give me crap xp
This sucks... Why are these new devs taking away our freedom to grind mobs???!!! I guess to resolve the sidekicking exploits from CoH huh its dawning on me now. Slowly, but surely I am figuring this out
The XP nerf isn't a nerf. It was a special accellerated rate of exp gain for the open beta in order to allow players to see more of the game. This isn't a new concept, and getting angry or worried about what is, in truth, exp returning to normal gains is just foolish. However, that doesn't address some of the larger issues with CO.
Flat out wrong. The XP rate before the change was what we were getting in CB. Show me exactly where they said they were putting this excelerated rate of XP gain in for OB please?
Also, in order to keep misinformation down, this is what Antiproton said about the change:
"People seem to be trying to spin things into doom and gloom, I'm not sure how the misinterpretations are occurring, but hopefully this can clear things up a bit:
1) The Tutorial is close to where we want it, folks are mostly level 4 at the end, they need to be hitting level 5, so we need to adjust it up to hit that target. If everybody was level 2 instead of 5 I would have said it was way off, but instead it is close but tweakable. Note that close to where we want it is NOT the same as where we want it.
2) we were happy with the rate in the Tutorial and fine with the rate in the tutorial, it was the later part of the game where things went off track from what we wanted. One can make guesses as to some likely changes in our xp behaviour between now and launch based on that info and the explicit statements I've made today.
3) We're datamining today's play, checking to see what effect the changes have, that will allow us to get the rate correct, we have 2 numbers currently: Our expected rate of progress through content and the actual rate. Tomorrow we will have 2 more sets of numbers: Our expected rate of progress with the change, and the actual rate. That will enable us to fine tune every single level to the place we want it to be since we know in a statistically meaningful sense what effect our % adjustment had.
This is how you tune a system like this, this is what large scale betas are for. The goal is to make the game fun to play for the long term, not to make it a 3 day blast to maxlevel and then burnout, and not to make it a 2 year grind. Progression needs to happen at a carefully balanced rate. Yes we are concerned about making sure the content matches the xp curve. Yes we are concerned about making the xp rate right. Yes we want the tutorial to play out in a particular pattern.
We're not trying to ruin the game for anybody, we're trying to make sure it is fun."
"As you may have noticed, we've been using this period of Open Beta to test out our balancing, levelling and overall combat systems. There was a change last night to do one last set of testing and unfortunately we were not able to get the proper messaging up in time to warn you of these changes. You are reasonably upset and we understand.
Antiproton, one of our combat designers has been on the message boards this afternoon trying to let everyone know what is going on. The truth is that this was a test. This is most likely not going to be the end result. However we needed these large scale numbers to determine what the best metric would be. Please be patient with us during this time. We don't want you to spend your time grinding rather than having fun and in order to make sure that doesn't happen, a few tweaks need to be made before we open the servers to our paying customers.
I want to ensure you that in the future, any changes happening in the game will be messaged to you. We are striving toward more development transparency and open communication so that we can ensure that your playing experience in our games is more enjoyable."
No link
Make of it what you will.
Pure PR! Pure Damage Control! Nothing more. Nothing less!
Seriously, anyone with more then one braincell know these kind of tweaking you just DO NOT do 1-2 days before end of Open Beta, just 2 days from Head Start aka Live!
They are just in panic. Just like Mythic was at the end of their WAR beta!
Mythic knew their endgame and Tier4 RvR was a total shambles. So nerfing the XP at the end of beta was their futile attempt to slow down people getting there. And so buy them time to fix it. Wich ofcourse they fail to do. Up till this day.
People forgot that 2-3 months after release, so many people complained about the horrible grind at the end of Tier2 and Tier3 that Mythic was pretty much forced to trottle up the XP!
And here today with CO we now see the EXACT SAME thing happen.
It wouldn't be a problem if you'd had so much redundant content, so ALT's can level up through different parts of content. Then you would have some room to adjust XP rates.
But these games (like WAR and now CO) are so thin on content at launch, that these drastic XP changes have serious concequences and are going to cause gaps in content!!
The XP nerf isn't a nerf. It was a special accellerated rate of exp gain for the open beta in order to allow players to see more of the game. This isn't a new concept, and getting angry or worried about what is, in truth, exp returning to normal gains is just foolish. However, that doesn't address some of the larger issues with CO.
If this were true, then the quest rewards I am getting wouldn't be 2 levels too high for me to use.
While I agree that the XP gain needed to be toned down a bit, I think they overshot the mark. My only real issue with the nerf is that this is the LAST DAY OF OPEN BETA. This is NOT the time to be making such a drastic change, considering the time left to test it. Just a bonehead move is all. IMO, if they increase the XP gain around 30% from where it is now, it will be a pretty decent pace.
Yes I agree with this guy here too. screw it I gotta rush to gamestop and cancel my preorder later. I'm forced to wait a few weeks to see how this goes down now.
dude, you are as tranparent as a sheet of steel. You where never going to play the game, and you where never even interested in the title until this thread. Champions online must be doing something right to warrant these kind of posters... woot !
Wait , I got to rush to gamestop and cancels all 4 of my collector editions fo Aion, so I can buy a Champoins online lifetime membership !!!! BRB !!!! ... /zooom zoom ..../chaching ....../.zoom zoom | I'm back , Aion canceled ! Woot.
You kidding right? This is a joke. I've always been interested in this title I had already paid it off. Look at my post history I've been in open beta and loving it.
Whoa, I actually liked the idea of toning down the exp gain. I kept leveling up quite fast and got the feeling "Ok, I'm already too high lvl for this area, gotta move somewhere else." Plus I hate to keep upgrading my equipments so very often.
I'm no hurry to reach the max lvl, since I like to see all content and get comfy with my character. And hells, I like to grind mobs and play with all kinds of tactics. Oh, and I love some of the items there are. I like the idea of being able to use some rare, not class restricted items (like grenades, revolvers, shurikens etc.). A caster pulling out a plasma rifle during PvP match is just fun!
I've not played Cities of Heroes/Villains but I really do love Champions Online (I'm surprised myself too) and right now I think it's the most enjoyable MMO I can think of.
They claim XP nerf was a test. That is link to developer post.
It might have been a test, but what was it testing?
The game has a max lvl of 40 This is a low cap.. At the rate you were lvling before it was far to easy (sure it was kinda fun) but when quests start turning grey because you are lvling way to fast there needs to be a nerf .
Just remember Cryptic loves to raise the level cap to 50 with expansions. they've done it with CoH and CoV. It was tough going from 40->50 in CoV but at least we had missions that were given to us at 'our level'
right now I am seeing a bunch of Level 12s farming Desert. Recall Desert is like a L10 area. But we all are forced to go there for the quests. Mobs only give like 5xp and it took me like 20k xp to hit L13. Now I got 65k xp left to grind and the mobs will still give me crap xp
This sucks... Why are these new devs taking away our freedom to grind mobs???!!! I guess to resolve the sidekicking exploits from CoH huh its dawning on me now. Slowly, but surely I am figuring this out
I did not have to farm in desert at that level. I was doing missions in MC and some of them were fairly hard. Teamed up with folks and completed missions up to about 18th before heading back to the desert to take on the Old Western Amusement park quests and Viper Base. Went from 10th to 20th in a few days so the XP change was not that killer to me.
WOW. They turned up the heat a bit to make groups more viable and needed and you complain again.
Some people cannot be happy with anything that changes. I personally liked some of the changes they made. There were some additional cool downs that were implemented that make no sense to me. However, that is a different story. Going to go post my feedback on the cool downs.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
They claim XP nerf was a test. That is link to developer post.
It might have been a test, but what was it testing?
The game has a max lvl of 40 This is a low cap.. At the rate you were lvling before it was far to easy (sure it was kinda fun) but when quests start turning grey because you are lvling way to fast there needs to be a nerf .
Just remember Cryptic loves to raise the level cap to 50 with expansions. they've done it with CoH and CoV. It was tough going from 40->50 in CoV but at least we had missions that were given to us at 'our level'
right now I am seeing a bunch of Level 12s farming Desert. Recall Desert is like a L10 area. But we all are forced to go there for the quests. Mobs only give like 5xp and it took me like 20k xp to hit L13. Now I got 65k xp left to grind and the mobs will still give me crap xp
This sucks... Why are these new devs taking away our freedom to grind mobs???!!! I guess to resolve the sidekicking exploits from CoH huh its dawning on me now. Slowly, but surely I am figuring this out
I did not have to farm in desert at that level. I was doing missions in MC and some of them were fairly hard. Teamed up with folks and completed missions up to about 18th before heading back to the desert to take on the Old Western Amusement park quests and Viper Base. Went from 10th to 20th in a few days so the XP change was not that killer to me.
So you're saying you did this post-nerf? Hm... I mostly just stuck to doing my quests. I finally grouped with some other guys and helped them with their stuff but probably didnt kill much extra mobs
Sense a lot of negativity in this thread, that is good. Ive been in the beta for last week and I can say its better then most other MMOs Ive played, or atleast it will be once the pety bugs and so been fixed.
But make no mistake this is CoH2, it has lots of new features, items, descent crafting system and the amazing nemesis... trust me having your own nemesis is great, always fun when you are grouping with some and then your nemesis henchmen drop by for a swing.
But in the end its still CoH2 but it succeeds in giving you a less repetative gameplay and it has dungeons?! Sure CoX had some but really awsome dungeons. Take yesterday for ex, me and 4 others fought a giant robot and his army, it took almost 2h to get to him and almost 1 to destroy him but it was frickin awsome 100% action or well, there were some thinking to do to but... well it wasnt as stale as many other MMOs make their instances CoH/CoX itself as an example.
It is however somewhat of a grinders nightmare since quests/missions yield 10 times as much exp as killing mobs in the mid of nowhere and to spice it up you have (as far as I know /reach lvl 25) 3 differents zones to play in your lvl range, so you could basicly play it 3 times arow and only playing a small amount of quests the same as the prev times. I always hated the CoH quest grinding... So for me, this is perfect and it wont get too linear
Its a great casual based MMO with a ton of fun features. I cant really tell anyone about endgame content or PvP plans for the future but Im so getting this game, its not perfect but its good enough. I will buy it then if I play a month or a year thats another question, but buy it I will.
*as for exp nerfs, come on thats laughable who tha fuck cares. These people cannot surely be serious, have they even played the game or are they just spouting nonsense, talk about making a chicken out of a feather*
People keep saying they ripped off CoH. Well, first off, if they did then they had that right. They owned the assets, but that's not quite the case here. They used CoH as a bare base to build CO with. CO is still the Champions IP though. It was not copied from CoH, and in fact CoH was based off of the Champions PnP. Do a little reading, it helps. Also for the record I don't mind this supposed "xp nerf" as it won't change the game much for those who know what they're doing. It's also not a big deal really since I'm sure it's not that bad...
Honestly that imo would just be lazyness to do so with no intention of originality. I have played CoX. I finally got a chance to play CO with the NOW open beta.
-Character creation was great except for the Human faces all looking like The incredibles in some form or another.
-The power animations were ok: I went with the Throw fire power and honestly it looked like a 2d diablo fire ball, not that great. Game play felt more like a coin op (witch in it self is not to bad).
-Using the same basic story line at the begining was kinda lame : -Said- alien race attacks and errects force fields around the city (as an excusse imo to make things Zoned) in CO. In CoX -said- alien race destroys a lot of the city(s) humans errect force fields to protect the parts that have not been destroyed by -said- alien race. As soon as the first cut scene began and I saw those force fields the first thing it reminded me of was "oh wait Cox has that too.
On the plus it looks like they will have a plethera of Travel powers to pick from,witch is one of the fun things about playing a super hero game. In CoX it was Flying,running and teleporting. looks like in CO they will have about 4 times that.
But all in all If you have never played CoX before, I think IMO that you could enjoy CO,but for me it could not really hold my attention.
I tend to agree with most of that. They are doing the same thing to CO that ruined COH. They are nerfing anything that remotely stands out as decent above others. So they create a bland game that has no variety beyond what sparklies you want on the screen. Otherwise the gameplay and graphics were nice.
I'm not sure but it sounds like you are promoting class imbalance which I would think makes sense to do. Why would they want something to "stand out" from the other parts of the game I don't think anyone does this and for obvious reason. Just as I think the op mentioned "a ranged class is no different than another ranged class so what's the difference". I may be somehow missing both your meanings but that's how it sounds to me.
Na I don't want imbalance, I want diversity. They are balancing everything for pvp so no one has any advantages over another.
There is no rock paper scissors like there is with GW. which I enjoyed far more than CO.
30% xp didn't effect your quest reward xp , just the mob xp . So each mob would give you 300xp , so the 300 x.30 = 90 . so you are all are going to cry over what is really 90 xp LOL. OK, see yah
Actually, I was referring to 30% xp gain across the board...including quests.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Do yourself a favor and dont take part in any form of beta ever again. Because you're going to keep getting pushed off the fence as they.."test" things with you being the tester. Theres countless things they could be testing by tweaking XP during a beta, none of which means thats how they plan on keeping it post release.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
I agree that games these days are rushed because of the high demand of 'players' wanting something 'new' ALL the time....what, we all have ADHD? (or whatever it is) I know I have a short attention span for the most part so am always eager for 'more' but damn.....take the time to actually make something I would like to stick with ya know? Not to flame anyone but if you cannot tell the difference between legit concerns and flat out idiotic ones, then someone has issues. -.-
Actually the players have nothing to do with it, it's the companies rushing themselves because of marketing purposes and they're unwilling to back down. Truly successful games like WoW, like Oblivion and Fallout, Blizzard and Bethseda continue to be successful because they've got the balls to say "Yes, the game is not done, we're delaying it." because their drooling fanboys will wait (see: starcraft 2). They have to, if the company dictates waiting, people WILL wait. These lesser developers are scared that delaying will mean they lose subs that they so badly need so they rush an unfinished product.
Also as a side-note, while I no longer play WoW, the haters need to appreciate what that game is and the fact that it is the standard for MMO's these days since no other game comes even remotely close. They sometimes use cheap and silly ways to get subs but through their 'noobification' (my own term) making things easier, more exp, more areas to level, making things shinier, whatever... they get people to play and keep playing. If these newer games want to succeed on the same level, similar practices have to be considered. The lesson of AoC should be learned by everyone, you'll stab yourself if you rush the game and deliver a crap experience, regardless of how beautiful the water looks.
As this is the first MMO I've followed with any great interest, I've gotten quite the great laugh at the postting wars that go on at this site. Here is my quick take on things...
1. This is CoX part 2. Yes, there are some noticeable differences, but it certainly does seem like part 2.
2. There are definitely some issues. I'm not going to go into detail as so many others have written at length about things, but there are things that definitely need to be worked on.
3. The game is very fun for casual play. If you are looking for the constant raid/most-epic-gear-grind, this probably isn't for you.
4. If you don't like it, I really don't care. If you do like it, I still really don't care. Why not just let the people who do plan on playing, well, play, and you can go invest your energies in your game of choice if you won't be playing?
Bottom line is it's my 50 bucks plus sub fee. If the game ends up being true crap, then I'm out my money. So what? How much money have I lost on a bad dinner out, or a bad movie, or even the $17,000 dollar lemon I bought from GM.
Comments
I don't know about "idiots" on this one... seems most complaints are legit too me... just people are a bit disilusioned by game companies releasing too early and that seems to be the case in this day and age. Seems like most games out there are rushed way too early with less and less quality control.
I don't think ppl here are itdiots, they are just tired of getting Flagshipped. And that gets people to be cynical and pessimistic... not idiotic.
Flat out wrong. The XP rate before the change was what we were getting in CB. Show me exactly where they said they were putting this excelerated rate of XP gain in for OB please?
Also, in order to keep misinformation down, this is what Antiproton said about the change:
"People seem to be trying to spin things into doom and gloom, I'm not sure how the misinterpretations are occurring, but hopefully this can clear things up a bit:
1) The Tutorial is close to where we want it, folks are mostly level 4 at the end, they need to be hitting level 5, so we need to adjust it up to hit that target. If everybody was level 2 instead of 5 I would have said it was way off, but instead it is close but tweakable. Note that close to where we want it is NOT the same as where we want it.
2) we were happy with the rate in the Tutorial and fine with the rate in the tutorial, it was the later part of the game where things went off track from what we wanted. One can make guesses as to some likely changes in our xp behaviour between now and launch based on that info and the explicit statements I've made today.
3) We're datamining today's play, checking to see what effect the changes have, that will allow us to get the rate correct, we have 2 numbers currently: Our expected rate of progress through content and the actual rate. Tomorrow we will have 2 more sets of numbers: Our expected rate of progress with the change, and the actual rate. That will enable us to fine tune every single level to the place we want it to be since we know in a statistically meaningful sense what effect our % adjustment had.
This is how you tune a system like this, this is what large scale betas are for. The goal is to make the game fun to play for the long term, not to make it a 3 day blast to maxlevel and then burnout, and not to make it a 2 year grind. Progression needs to happen at a carefully balanced rate. Yes we are concerned about making sure the content matches the xp curve. Yes we are concerned about making the xp rate right. Yes we want the tutorial to play out in a particular pattern.
We're not trying to ruin the game for anybody, we're trying to make sure it is fun."
forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php
And what Awen said:
Originally Posted by Awen
"As you may have noticed, we've been using this period of Open Beta to test out our balancing, levelling and overall combat systems. There was a change last night to do one last set of testing and unfortunately we were not able to get the proper messaging up in time to warn you of these changes. You are reasonably upset and we understand.
Antiproton, one of our combat designers has been on the message boards this afternoon trying to let everyone know what is going on. The truth is that this was a test. This is most likely not going to be the end result. However we needed these large scale numbers to determine what the best metric would be. Please be patient with us during this time. We don't want you to spend your time grinding rather than having fun and in order to make sure that doesn't happen, a few tweaks need to be made before we open the servers to our paying customers.
I want to ensure you that in the future, any changes happening in the game will be messaged to you. We are striving toward more development transparency and open communication so that we can ensure that your playing experience in our games is more enjoyable."
No link
Make of it what you will.
That's fair but just remember I'm not a WoW fan. I play EVE online. But yes I did play WoW for a year when it launched so go ahead throw me in the cooking pot I guess if you want. So yes maybe WoW / EVE spoiled me rotten but there will also be a crapload of other people with diapers like me that will cry a river too
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
I don't know about "idiots" on this one... seems most complaints are legit too me... just people are a bit disilusioned by game companies releasing too early and that seems to be the case in this day and age. Seems like most games out there are rushed way too early with less and less quality control.
I don't think ppl here are itdiots, they are just tired of getting Flagshipped. And that gets people to be cynical and pessimistic... not idiotic.
Took the words right out of my mouth....er fingers....w/e.
Honestly what 'ruined' CO for me was the fact they are going to be P2P AND have a cash shop type dealy going on, (will have to read a lot more on it, but if it is a deal where you have to pay extra to get to more content so-to-speak then screw 'em) .....blew me away and made me feel like they are a very greedy bunch. I play WoW but still don't feel robbed when 'I' decide to spend that extra 25 bucks for a character change. But that's neither here nor there.....obviously.
I agree that games these days are rushed because of the high demand of 'players' wanting something 'new' ALL the time....what, we all have ADHD? (or whatever it is) I know I have a short attention span for the most part so am always eager for 'more' but damn.....take the time to actually make something I would like to stick with ya know? Not to flame anyone but if you cannot tell the difference between legit concerns and flat out idiotic ones, then someone has issues. -.-
http://zazzle.com/drooling_tiger*
Hm, that fits perfectly with the Devs telling us the xp nerf was a test (http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=40138).
It also fits perfectly with only having quests 2-3 levels above you and getting rewards you can't use, because they are too high a level.
If that is how the game is really meant to be, I say stay away from it.
Funny how the smart of us has read the dev postings and know the xp nerf was a test, so we don't go yabber on a forum about the beta having bonus xp and this new xp is how it is supposed to be (because it is not, according to Antiproton, http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?p=783985#post783985).
----------------
I'm not happy with the new xp value and I think it is daft to test it so late. But since it is a test, I have faith they will adjust it to a level they want, which is probably somewhere between before and now.
That's fair but just remember I'm not a WoW fan. I play EVE online. But yes I did play WoW for a year when it launched so go ahead throw me in the cooking pot I guess if you want. So yes maybe WoW / EVE spoiled me rotten but there will also be a crapload of other people with diapers like me that will cry a river too
Spoiled rotten, or perhaps you've played games that have set the bar for you? My bar was set by TERA Online, so now I compare most game graphics and animation to the alpha boss footage released a few months back. As for gameplay, and though I feel flagshipped by Bill Roper... I have to admit gameplay-wise that bar was set by Hellgate. So now I compare most rps and mmo's to how fast and responsive the gameplay is to Hellgate.
I understand totally by what you mean by spoiled. And, that my friend is what should set the bar for you in regards to future releases.
It might have been a test, but what was it testing?
The game has a max lvl of 40 This is a low cap.. At the rate you were lvling before it was far to easy (sure it was kinda fun) but when quests start turning grey because you are lvling way to fast there needs to be a nerf .
Just remember Cryptic loves to raise the level cap to 50 with expansions. they've done it with CoH and CoV. It was tough going from 40->50 in CoV but at least we had missions that were given to us at 'our level'
right now I am seeing a bunch of Level 12s farming Desert. Recall Desert is like a L10 area. But we all are forced to go there for the quests. Mobs only give like 5xp and it took me like 20k xp to hit L13. Now I got 65k xp left to grind and the mobs will still give me crap xp
This sucks... Why are these new devs taking away our freedom to grind mobs???!!! I guess to resolve the sidekicking exploits from CoH huh its dawning on me now. Slowly, but surely I am figuring this out
Flat out wrong. The XP rate before the change was what we were getting in CB. Show me exactly where they said they were putting this excelerated rate of XP gain in for OB please?
Also, in order to keep misinformation down, this is what Antiproton said about the change:
"People seem to be trying to spin things into doom and gloom, I'm not sure how the misinterpretations are occurring, but hopefully this can clear things up a bit:
1) The Tutorial is close to where we want it, folks are mostly level 4 at the end, they need to be hitting level 5, so we need to adjust it up to hit that target. If everybody was level 2 instead of 5 I would have said it was way off, but instead it is close but tweakable. Note that close to where we want it is NOT the same as where we want it.
2) we were happy with the rate in the Tutorial and fine with the rate in the tutorial, it was the later part of the game where things went off track from what we wanted. One can make guesses as to some likely changes in our xp behaviour between now and launch based on that info and the explicit statements I've made today.
3) We're datamining today's play, checking to see what effect the changes have, that will allow us to get the rate correct, we have 2 numbers currently: Our expected rate of progress through content and the actual rate. Tomorrow we will have 2 more sets of numbers: Our expected rate of progress with the change, and the actual rate. That will enable us to fine tune every single level to the place we want it to be since we know in a statistically meaningful sense what effect our % adjustment had.
This is how you tune a system like this, this is what large scale betas are for. The goal is to make the game fun to play for the long term, not to make it a 3 day blast to maxlevel and then burnout, and not to make it a 2 year grind. Progression needs to happen at a carefully balanced rate. Yes we are concerned about making sure the content matches the xp curve. Yes we are concerned about making the xp rate right. Yes we want the tutorial to play out in a particular pattern.
We're not trying to ruin the game for anybody, we're trying to make sure it is fun."
forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php
And what Awen said:
Originally Posted by Awen
"As you may have noticed, we've been using this period of Open Beta to test out our balancing, levelling and overall combat systems. There was a change last night to do one last set of testing and unfortunately we were not able to get the proper messaging up in time to warn you of these changes. You are reasonably upset and we understand.
Antiproton, one of our combat designers has been on the message boards this afternoon trying to let everyone know what is going on. The truth is that this was a test. This is most likely not going to be the end result. However we needed these large scale numbers to determine what the best metric would be. Please be patient with us during this time. We don't want you to spend your time grinding rather than having fun and in order to make sure that doesn't happen, a few tweaks need to be made before we open the servers to our paying customers.
I want to ensure you that in the future, any changes happening in the game will be messaged to you. We are striving toward more development transparency and open communication so that we can ensure that your playing experience in our games is more enjoyable."
No link
Make of it what you will.
Pure PR! Pure Damage Control! Nothing more. Nothing less!
Seriously, anyone with more then one braincell know these kind of tweaking you just DO NOT do 1-2 days before end of Open Beta, just 2 days from Head Start aka Live!
They are just in panic. Just like Mythic was at the end of their WAR beta!
Mythic knew their endgame and Tier4 RvR was a total shambles. So nerfing the XP at the end of beta was their futile attempt to slow down people getting there. And so buy them time to fix it. Wich ofcourse they fail to do. Up till this day.
People forgot that 2-3 months after release, so many people complained about the horrible grind at the end of Tier2 and Tier3 that Mythic was pretty much forced to trottle up the XP!
And here today with CO we now see the EXACT SAME thing happen.
It wouldn't be a problem if you'd had so much redundant content, so ALT's can level up through different parts of content. Then you would have some room to adjust XP rates.
But these games (like WAR and now CO) are so thin on content at launch, that these drastic XP changes have serious concequences and are going to cause gaps in content!!
If this were true, then the quest rewards I am getting wouldn't be 2 levels too high for me to use.
While I agree that the XP gain needed to be toned down a bit, I think they overshot the mark. My only real issue with the nerf is that this is the LAST DAY OF OPEN BETA. This is NOT the time to be making such a drastic change, considering the time left to test it. Just a bonehead move is all. IMO, if they increase the XP gain around 30% from where it is now, it will be a pretty decent pace.
Yes I agree with this guy here too. screw it I gotta rush to gamestop and cancel my preorder later. I'm forced to wait a few weeks to see how this goes down now.
dude, you are as tranparent as a sheet of steel. You where never going to play the game, and you where never even interested in the title until this thread. Champions online must be doing something right to warrant these kind of posters... woot !
Wait , I got to rush to gamestop and cancels all 4 of my collector editions fo Aion, so I can buy a Champoins online lifetime membership !!!! BRB !!!! ... /zooom zoom ..../chaching ....../.zoom zoom | I'm back , Aion canceled ! Woot.
You kidding right? This is a joke. I've always been interested in this title I had already paid it off. Look at my post history I've been in open beta and loving it.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
Whoa, I actually liked the idea of toning down the exp gain. I kept leveling up quite fast and got the feeling "Ok, I'm already too high lvl for this area, gotta move somewhere else." Plus I hate to keep upgrading my equipments so very often.
I'm no hurry to reach the max lvl, since I like to see all content and get comfy with my character. And hells, I like to grind mobs and play with all kinds of tactics.
Oh, and I love some of the items there are. I like the idea of being able to use some rare, not class restricted items (like grenades, revolvers, shurikens etc.). A caster pulling out a plasma rifle during PvP match is just fun!
I've not played Cities of Heroes/Villains but I really do love Champions Online (I'm surprised myself too) and right now I think it's the most enjoyable MMO I can think of.
It might have been a test, but what was it testing?
The game has a max lvl of 40 This is a low cap.. At the rate you were lvling before it was far to easy (sure it was kinda fun) but when quests start turning grey because you are lvling way to fast there needs to be a nerf .
Just remember Cryptic loves to raise the level cap to 50 with expansions. they've done it with CoH and CoV. It was tough going from 40->50 in CoV but at least we had missions that were given to us at 'our level'
right now I am seeing a bunch of Level 12s farming Desert. Recall Desert is like a L10 area. But we all are forced to go there for the quests. Mobs only give like 5xp and it took me like 20k xp to hit L13. Now I got 65k xp left to grind and the mobs will still give me crap xp
This sucks... Why are these new devs taking away our freedom to grind mobs???!!! I guess to resolve the sidekicking exploits from CoH huh its dawning on me now. Slowly, but surely I am figuring this out
I did not have to farm in desert at that level. I was doing missions in MC and some of them were fairly hard. Teamed up with folks and completed missions up to about 18th before heading back to the desert to take on the Old Western Amusement park quests and Viper Base. Went from 10th to 20th in a few days so the XP change was not that killer to me.
WOW. They turned up the heat a bit to make groups more viable and needed and you complain again.
Some people cannot be happy with anything that changes. I personally liked some of the changes they made. There were some additional cool downs that were implemented that make no sense to me. However, that is a different story. Going to go post my feedback on the cool downs.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
It might have been a test, but what was it testing?
The game has a max lvl of 40 This is a low cap.. At the rate you were lvling before it was far to easy (sure it was kinda fun) but when quests start turning grey because you are lvling way to fast there needs to be a nerf .
Just remember Cryptic loves to raise the level cap to 50 with expansions. they've done it with CoH and CoV. It was tough going from 40->50 in CoV but at least we had missions that were given to us at 'our level'
right now I am seeing a bunch of Level 12s farming Desert. Recall Desert is like a L10 area. But we all are forced to go there for the quests. Mobs only give like 5xp and it took me like 20k xp to hit L13. Now I got 65k xp left to grind and the mobs will still give me crap xp
This sucks... Why are these new devs taking away our freedom to grind mobs???!!! I guess to resolve the sidekicking exploits from CoH huh its dawning on me now. Slowly, but surely I am figuring this out
I did not have to farm in desert at that level. I was doing missions in MC and some of them were fairly hard. Teamed up with folks and completed missions up to about 18th before heading back to the desert to take on the Old Western Amusement park quests and Viper Base. Went from 10th to 20th in a few days so the XP change was not that killer to me.
So you're saying you did this post-nerf? Hm... I mostly just stuck to doing my quests. I finally grouped with some other guys and helped them with their stuff but probably didnt kill much extra mobs
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
Sense a lot of negativity in this thread, that is good. Ive been in the beta for last week and I can say its better then most other MMOs Ive played, or atleast it will be once the pety bugs and so been fixed.
But make no mistake this is CoH2, it has lots of new features, items, descent crafting system and the amazing nemesis... trust me having your own nemesis is great, always fun when you are grouping with some and then your nemesis henchmen drop by for a swing.
But in the end its still CoH2 but it succeeds in giving you a less repetative gameplay and it has dungeons?! Sure CoX had some but really awsome dungeons. Take yesterday for ex, me and 4 others fought a giant robot and his army, it took almost 2h to get to him and almost 1 to destroy him but it was frickin awsome 100% action or well, there were some thinking to do to but... well it wasnt as stale as many other MMOs make their instances CoH/CoX itself as an example.
It is however somewhat of a grinders nightmare since quests/missions yield 10 times as much exp as killing mobs in the mid of nowhere and to spice it up you have (as far as I know /reach lvl 25) 3 differents zones to play in your lvl range, so you could basicly play it 3 times arow and only playing a small amount of quests the same as the prev times. I always hated the CoH quest grinding... So for me, this is perfect and it wont get too linear
Its a great casual based MMO with a ton of fun features. I cant really tell anyone about endgame content or PvP plans for the future but Im so getting this game, its not perfect but its good enough. I will buy it then if I play a month or a year thats another question, but buy it I will.
*as for exp nerfs, come on thats laughable who tha fuck cares. These people cannot surely be serious, have they even played the game or are they just spouting nonsense, talk about making a chicken out of a feather*
What if...
They are testing experience gains to determine things like :
Experience pots for microtransactions - how will wuch things impact the game.
Just a thought. Anyone know if these types of things will be sold/ Sorry if this derails thread
Honestly that imo would just be lazyness to do so with no intention of originality. I have played CoX. I finally got a chance to play CO with the NOW open beta.
-Character creation was great except for the Human faces all looking like The incredibles in some form or another.
-The power animations were ok: I went with the Throw fire power and honestly it looked like a 2d diablo fire ball, not that great. Game play felt more like a coin op (witch in it self is not to bad).
-Using the same basic story line at the begining was kinda lame : -Said- alien race attacks and errects force fields around the city (as an excusse imo to make things Zoned) in CO. In CoX -said- alien race destroys a lot of the city(s) humans errect force fields to protect the parts that have not been destroyed by -said- alien race. As soon as the first cut scene began and I saw those force fields the first thing it reminded me of was "oh wait Cox has that too.
On the plus it looks like they will have a plethera of Travel powers to pick from,witch is one of the fun things about playing a super hero game. In CoX it was Flying,running and teleporting. looks like in CO they will have about 4 times that.
But all in all If you have never played CoX before, I think IMO that you could enjoy CO,but for me it could not really hold my attention.
I'm not sure but it sounds like you are promoting class imbalance which I would think makes sense to do. Why would they want something to "stand out" from the other parts of the game I don't think anyone does this and for obvious reason. Just as I think the op mentioned "a ranged class is no different than another ranged class so what's the difference". I may be somehow missing both your meanings but that's how it sounds to me.
Na I don't want imbalance, I want diversity. They are balancing everything for pvp so no one has any advantages over another.
There is no rock paper scissors like there is with GW. which I enjoyed far more than CO.
Actually, I was referring to 30% xp gain across the board...including quests.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
OP
Do yourself a favor and dont take part in any form of beta ever again. Because you're going to keep getting pushed off the fence as they.."test" things with you being the tester. Theres countless things they could be testing by tweaking XP during a beta, none of which means thats how they plan on keeping it post release.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
I always put the haters/trolls on ignore. It makes things so much easier.
Welcome to ignore.
Actually the players have nothing to do with it, it's the companies rushing themselves because of marketing purposes and they're unwilling to back down. Truly successful games like WoW, like Oblivion and Fallout, Blizzard and Bethseda continue to be successful because they've got the balls to say "Yes, the game is not done, we're delaying it." because their drooling fanboys will wait (see: starcraft 2). They have to, if the company dictates waiting, people WILL wait. These lesser developers are scared that delaying will mean they lose subs that they so badly need so they rush an unfinished product.
Also as a side-note, while I no longer play WoW, the haters need to appreciate what that game is and the fact that it is the standard for MMO's these days since no other game comes even remotely close. They sometimes use cheap and silly ways to get subs but through their 'noobification' (my own term) making things easier, more exp, more areas to level, making things shinier, whatever... they get people to play and keep playing. If these newer games want to succeed on the same level, similar practices have to be considered. The lesson of AoC should be learned by everyone, you'll stab yourself if you rush the game and deliver a crap experience, regardless of how beautiful the water looks.
As this is the first MMO I've followed with any great interest, I've gotten quite the great laugh at the postting wars that go on at this site. Here is my quick take on things...
1. This is CoX part 2. Yes, there are some noticeable differences, but it certainly does seem like part 2.
2. There are definitely some issues. I'm not going to go into detail as so many others have written at length about things, but there are things that definitely need to be worked on.
3. The game is very fun for casual play. If you are looking for the constant raid/most-epic-gear-grind, this probably isn't for you.
4. If you don't like it, I really don't care. If you do like it, I still really don't care. Why not just let the people who do plan on playing, well, play, and you can go invest your energies in your game of choice if you won't be playing?
Bottom line is it's my 50 bucks plus sub fee. If the game ends up being true crap, then I'm out my money. So what? How much money have I lost on a bad dinner out, or a bad movie, or even the $17,000 dollar lemon I bought from GM.
Buy if you like or pass if you don't.