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"Griefing" and "Ganking" are myths. They don't exist

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  • xaldraxiusxaldraxius Member Posts: 1,249


    Originally posted by krugve
    Let's see, Mrbluray was trolling about adding a mechanic that increased grinding and he was pretending he sees it as a good thing. Now he's talking about his remorseless approach for PvP and acting as some sort of inhuman machine designed to win.
     
    Seroiusly, all this guy is good at is roleplaying at the forums His "class" is like some sort of elitist hardcore oldschool player. He keeps posting with controversial statements no real person would say. But yeah, seeing some people fall for it, he's had some success trolling here.

    He's not really trolling because it's not really upsetting anyone. It's not controversial, it's just something to discuss.


    Mr. BlueRay do you accept that right and wrong, good and evil are not just personal concepts? That doing something that hurts someone else is wrong, whether you feel bad about it or not?

  • MrblurayMrbluray Member Posts: 248
    Originally posted by u18bu2sa0k


    OP is arrogant , but he got the right mindset.
    i seek challenge in games,defeating challenging opponents is the main source of  joy in pair with character growth/progression for me.
    about Ganking/Griefing ill do it.
    it can be fun to ruin others gameplay  + the accumulated anger against  the other faction (they gonna do the same, yeah  )
     
     

     

    For me, I just set out to play.   Whether or not my "play" results in "ruined gameplay" for others is of no concern to me.  Since I can not control the feelings or emotions of others,  I choose not to waste my time worrying about such things.  It is useless and does nothing to improve my skill as a PvPer. 

    That's why there is no such thing as "Griefing" or "ganking".  It's all in your head.

    This "style" has worked well for me in Ultima ONilne, EverQuest, Camelot, Lineage and the Aion Betas...  I see no reason to change it now.

  • demarc01demarc01 Member UncommonPosts: 429
    Originally posted by u18bu2sa0k


    OP is arrogant , but he got the right mindset.
    i seek challenge in games,defeating challenging opponents is the main source of  joy in pair with character growth/progression for me.
    about Ganking/Griefing ill do it.
    it can be fun to ruin others gameplay  + the accumulated anger against  the other faction (they gonna do the same, yeah  )
     
     



     

    Ganking is fine.

    Greifing (true griefing) is not.

    True greifing is doing something with the sole intent to ruin someone elses experiance. Now some will say that killing lowbies is griefing and as I said above I dont believe it is. Thats just trying to encourage PvP (Drawing out others to fight)

    Griefing is following that lowbie around and making his/her life hell .. then running and hiding as soon as someone thats not an instant-kill wanders your way to put a stop to you.

    Hell kill a few lowbies .. have the balls to stay around when thier friends come knocking though. And dont pick on the same lowbie over and over and over. Hell there are usually lots of lowbies around .. spread the love and try to encourage some meaningful PvP. If said lowbie makes an effort to avoid your arse (goes to a diff zone etc) dont follow him around. Thats greifing.




  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,976
    Originally posted by xaldraxius


     

    Originally posted by krugve

    Let's see, Mrbluray was trolling about adding a mechanic that increased grinding and he was pretending he sees it as a good thing. Now he's talking about his remorseless approach for PvP and acting as some sort of inhuman machine designed to win.

     

    Seroiusly, all this guy is good at is roleplaying at the forums His "class" is like some sort of elitist hardcore oldschool player. He keeps posting with controversial statements no real person would say. But yeah, seeing some people fall for it, he's had some success trolling here.

     

    He's not really trolling because it's not really upsetting anyone. It's not controversial, it's just something to discuss.



    Mr. BlueRay do you accept that right and wrong, good and evil are not just personal concepts? That doing something that hurts someone else is wrong, whether you feel bad about it or not?



     

    I agree, he's not trolling. He is merely making a statment of belief that inspires discussion. It's not exactly a bad discussion as there is some merit to what he is saying.

    If someoen is over emotional they might just mess themselves up. If one approaches the problem with a more controlled emotional state then one might be able to have the best of both worlds.

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  • MrblurayMrbluray Member Posts: 248
    Originally posted by demarc01

    Originally posted by u18bu2sa0k


    OP is arrogant , but he got the right mindset.
    i seek challenge in games,defeating challenging opponents is the main source of  joy in pair with character growth/progression for me.
    about Ganking/Griefing ill do it.
    it can be fun to ruin others gameplay  + the accumulated anger against  the other faction (they gonna do the same, yeah  )
     
     



     

    Ganking is fine.

    Greifing (true griefing) is not.

    True greifing is doing something with the sole intent to ruin someone elses experiance. Now some will say that killing lowbies is griefing and as I said above I dont believe it is. Thats just trying to encourage PvP (Drawing out others to fight)

    Griefing is following that lowbie around and making his/her life hell .. then running and hiding as soon as someone thats not an instant-kill wanders your way to put a stop to you.

    Hell kill a few lowbies .. have the balls to stay around when thier friends come knocking though. And dont pick on the same lowbie over and over and over. Hell there are usually lots of lowbies around .. spread the love and try to encourage some meaningful PvP. If said lowbie makes an effort to avoid your arse (goes to a diff zone etc) dont follow him around. Thats greifing.

     

    that's another misconception about Aion, that people "gank lowbies".   Since you can not tell the level of your target in Aion, it is impossible to "gank lowbies".   I just attack everything and react to what happens.

     

  • xaldraxiusxaldraxius Member Posts: 1,249


    Originally posted by FunkyLasagne
    Originally posted by Swanea Why do people even respond to the troll as if he really meant it.  Just wants to get people going.
     
    I've never worked that out either.  This game as well seems to have a higher proportion of people who take the bait more than any other I've witnessed as well.

    I don't even play this game. I don't care if he meant what he said, each of his answers says a lot about him if he means them literally or not. The feigned indifference coupled with the fact that he started the thread in the first place, and his continued responses as he obviously watches the thread like a hawk; all of this is pure gold. :)

  • lethyslethys Member UncommonPosts: 585
    Originally posted by Mrbluray


    There is no such thing as "griefing" or "ganking".   They are simply excuses made up for one reason or another. It's all in your head.
    Think of it this way, when you kill NPCs, are you "griefing" them?  Are you "ganking" them?  Of course not.   There is no such thing as "ganking" or "griefing".   Learn not to make excuses and grind harder.

    This is the worst post I have ever seen.

  • u18bu2sa0ku18bu2sa0k Member Posts: 144

    im pretty sure you can judge it by equipment/skill hes using (if you are informed enough)

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by Mrbluray

    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Griefing is when you enjoy and set out to ruin someone elses enjoyment of the game. Griefing is when the griefer is not playing against the char in the game, but is playing specifically to annoy the other player outside of the game.  Its not about winning a fight, scoring point, achieving an objective in the context of the game. Griefing solely about you getting your fun by ruining someone elses fun. 

     Whether or not players on the opposite faction have fun or not is of no concern.  Such things are useless to think about.  That is why there is no such thing as "griefing".   

    If there is no such thing as griefing, and no emotional component, what would be the motivation for a high level char to kill over and over a much lower level char? In a lot of games the difference in levels precludes rewards or just because after killing the same person x number of times the reward stops. Not to mention, what feeling of winning can there be for a high level to one-shot over and over some noob?

  • MrblurayMrbluray Member Posts: 248
    Originally posted by u18bu2sa0k


    im pretty sure you can judge it by equipment/skill hes using (if you are informed enough)

     

    Not really.   You can switch the skins for your equipment. 

  • u18bu2sa0ku18bu2sa0k Member Posts: 144
    Originally posted by Mrbluray

    Originally posted by u18bu2sa0k


    im pretty sure you can judge it by equipment/skill hes using (if you are informed enough)

     

    Not really.   You can switch the skins for your equipment. 

     

    are lowbies running in high end armor with endgame skills?

  • MrblurayMrbluray Member Posts: 248
    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Mrbluray

    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Griefing is when you enjoy and set out to ruin someone elses enjoyment of the game. Griefing is when the griefer is not playing against the char in the game, but is playing specifically to annoy the other player outside of the game.  Its not about winning a fight, scoring point, achieving an objective in the context of the game. Griefing solely about you getting your fun by ruining someone elses fun. 

     Whether or not players on the opposite faction have fun or not is of no concern.  Such things are useless to think about.  That is why there is no such thing as "griefing".   

    If there is no such thing as griefing, and no emotional component, what would be the motivation for a high level char to kill over and over a much lower level char? In a lot of games the difference in levels precludes rewards or just because after killing the same person x number of times the reward stops. Not to mention, what feeling of winning can there be for a high level to one-shot over and over some noob?

    That is a good question.   For me personally,  I don't pay attention to level.   I have however killed players repeatedly.  

    In the case of Aion,  I do it in order to win.   Both as a personal win, and a win for my faction in general.   If by doing such things I weaken the morale of my enemy then it makes it easier for your faction to win, does it not?

     

  • Cyborg99Cyborg99 Member Posts: 576

    Well if it isn't a problem then why did you make a thread about it, repressed memories of getting spawn camped?

    Trolls = Hardcore
    Fanbois = Carebears


    The only posts I read in threads are my own.

  • demarc01demarc01 Member UncommonPosts: 429
    Originally posted by Mrbluray

    Originally posted by demarc01

    Originally posted by u18bu2sa0k


    OP is arrogant , but he got the right mindset.
    i seek challenge in games,defeating challenging opponents is the main source of  joy in pair with character growth/progression for me.
    about Ganking/Griefing ill do it.
    it can be fun to ruin others gameplay  + the accumulated anger against  the other faction (they gonna do the same, yeah  )
     
     



     

    Ganking is fine.

    Greifing (true griefing) is not.

    True greifing is doing something with the sole intent to ruin someone elses experiance. Now some will say that killing lowbies is griefing and as I said above I dont believe it is. Thats just trying to encourage PvP (Drawing out others to fight)

    Griefing is following that lowbie around and making his/her life hell .. then running and hiding as soon as someone thats not an instant-kill wanders your way to put a stop to you.

    Hell kill a few lowbies .. have the balls to stay around when thier friends come knocking though. And dont pick on the same lowbie over and over and over. Hell there are usually lots of lowbies around .. spread the love and try to encourage some meaningful PvP. If said lowbie makes an effort to avoid your arse (goes to a diff zone etc) dont follow him around. Thats greifing.

     

    that's another misconception about Aion, that people "gank lowbies".   Since you can not tell the level of your target in Aion, it is impossible to "gank lowbies".   I just attack everything and react to what happens.

     



     

    You should have some idea based on the area they are hunting in. Someone attacking a level 25 mobs and engaging it in regular combat (ie not 1 shotting it) is obviously not a level 50 character ...

    Thats not my point though.

    Do you follow around 1 person (or a few people) and kill them over and over generally just making thier life hell? Or do you just kill anything that crosses your path? (Or try to)

    The first is greifing, you know that person is low level and stands no chance yet you hound them. (Now if they keep comming back - for whatever reason - a quest to grind etc KNOWING your there .. more fool them)

    The second is just playing tha game IMO.




  • u18bu2sa0ku18bu2sa0k Member Posts: 144

    Griefing  is unpractical because you waste a lot of time with it.

    but its fun to play 'Gawd' - like once in a while.

  • beyondredxbeyondredx Member Posts: 7
    Originally posted by Mrbluray

    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Griefing is when you enjoy and set out to ruin someone elses enjoyment of the game. Griefing is when the griefer is not playing against the char in the game, but is playing specifically to annoy the other player outside of the game.  Its not about winning a fight, scoring point, achieving an objective in the context of the game. Griefing solely about you getting your fun by ruining someone elses fun.
     

     

    Whether or not players on the opposite faction have fun or not is of no concern.  Such things are useless to think about.  That is why there is no such thing as "griefing".  

     

     

    Dude your so full of it, u got problems u sad *#&$......  keep telling yourself lies over and over.

  • MrblurayMrbluray Member Posts: 248
    Originally posted by demarc01

    Originally posted by Mrbluray

    Originally posted by demarc01

    Originally posted by u18bu2sa0k


    OP is arrogant , but he got the right mindset.
    i seek challenge in games,defeating challenging opponents is the main source of  joy in pair with character growth/progression for me.
    about Ganking/Griefing ill do it.
    it can be fun to ruin others gameplay  + the accumulated anger against  the other faction (they gonna do the same, yeah  )
     
     



     

    Ganking is fine.

    Greifing (true griefing) is not.

    True greifing is doing something with the sole intent to ruin someone elses experiance. Now some will say that killing lowbies is griefing and as I said above I dont believe it is. Thats just trying to encourage PvP (Drawing out others to fight)

    Griefing is following that lowbie around and making his/her life hell .. then running and hiding as soon as someone thats not an instant-kill wanders your way to put a stop to you.

    Hell kill a few lowbies .. have the balls to stay around when thier friends come knocking though. And dont pick on the same lowbie over and over and over. Hell there are usually lots of lowbies around .. spread the love and try to encourage some meaningful PvP. If said lowbie makes an effort to avoid your arse (goes to a diff zone etc) dont follow him around. Thats greifing.

     

    that's another misconception about Aion, that people "gank lowbies".   Since you can not tell the level of your target in Aion, it is impossible to "gank lowbies".   I just attack everything and react to what happens.

     



     

    You should have some idea based on the area they are hunting in. Someone attacking a level 25 mobs and engaging it in regular combat (ie not 1 shotting it) is obviously not a level 50 character ...

    Thats not my point though.

    Do you follow around 1 person (or a few people) and kill them over and over generally just making thier life hell? Or do you just kill anything that crosses your path? (Or try to)

    The first is greifing, you know that person is low level and stands no chance yet you hound them. (Now if they keep comming back - for whatever reason - a quest to grind etc KNOWING your there .. more fool them)

    The second is just playing tha game IMO.

     

    I have followed groups around killing them over and over.   I do it because it is part of the process of winning.   Whether it makes their life "hell" is impossible for me to know and is of no concern to me.

     

    I also attack anything I can.   Even if it's just to do a stun and run. 

  • xaldraxiusxaldraxius Member Posts: 1,249


    Originally posted by Mrbluray
    Originally posted by dhayes68
    Originally posted by Mrbluray
    Originally posted by dhayes68 Griefing is when you enjoy and set out to ruin someone elses enjoyment of the game. Griefing is when the griefer is not playing against the char in the game, but is playing specifically to annoy the other player outside of the game.  Its not about winning a fight, scoring point, achieving an objective in the context of the game. Griefing solely about you getting your fun by ruining someone elses fun. 
     Whether or not players on the opposite faction have fun or not is of no concern.  Such things are useless to think about.  That is why there is no such thing as "griefing".   


    If there is no such thing as griefing, and no emotional component, what would be the motivation for a high level char to kill over and over a much lower level char? In a lot of games the difference in levels precludes rewards or just because after killing the same person x number of times the reward stops. Not to mention, what feeling of winning can there be for a high level to one-shot over and over some noob?


    That is a good question.   For me personally,  I don't pay attention to level.   I have however killed players repeatedly.  
    In the case of Aion,  I do it in order to win.   Both as a personal win, and a win for my faction in general.   If by doing such things I weaken the morale of my enemy then it makes it easier for your faction to win, does it not?
     

    It's not 'weakening the morale' of your enemies, it's making people, in all likelihood children, feel bad to the point they don't want to play.

    Is it right then to do such? You say it's just a game and you aren't emotionally involved in it, but does that make it okay? Does right and wrong not exist outside of your own personal agenda?

    There are going to be winners and losers in games, that is what games are about, but to take advantage of all the time you spent 'grinding' by killing someone over and over who has no chance of beating you is griefing.

    Whether you feel bad about it or not doesn't make it anything else.

  • MrPhireMrPhire Member Posts: 212

    I do believe I already proven you wrong you ignorant trash troll.

    Lol... It's funny when people argue the vernacular of the average teenage computer geek. Ganking is the official term for killing a player from behind with no warning or Killing a lowbie. Ganking exists whether you believe so or not. Griefing is another mechanic all together. Griefing is the act of killing a charecter of an opposite faction very quickly and repeaditly. Griefing is similar to Camping, but camping is the act of sitting near the player so that no matter what the player tries he's going to die. Griefing in this game I believe replaces Camping, because from all I hear if you die you can't respawn were you died. Griefing and Camping are both mechanics that if you read other MMOs such as WoW that are actually against the rules. It's strange, but very true. The consequences are nothing major, mainly because no GM is gunna hold the rule. My opinion these mechanics are just apart of any game. If you don't like it you should've read the user manual. It tells you that you are able to be attacked by the opposing faction. So gtfo. People wanna mindlessly argue that something does or doesn't exist inside a game, but the fact is the term exists hence the game can and most likely will accept the term and its mechanics.

    Here are the official meaning's of these words:

    From Urban Dictionary:

    "4. gank

    verb (Online, MMORPG usage)

    1. To kill another player using a group of players

    2. To kill another player using any means that places the player to be killed at a substantial disadvantage.

    Widely popularised following the success of World of Warcraft, the word "gank" comes from "gang kill", used in earlier MMORPGs like Ultima Online. A gang kill occurs when a group (or gang) of players attack a single one and kill him/her with relative ease.

    The meaning has now extended to any player kill where the killed player had little chance to avoid death.

    "I was ganked by a level 60 horde"

    "You had no chance to avoid that rogue! Ganked!""

     

     

    "1. griefing

    1. Purposefully shooting or otherwise sabotaging your teammates in an online game.

    2. In online gaming where one repeatedly killing the same individual or individuals over and over again, or camping their corpse to prevent them from retrieving it, or otherwise performing actions in a game to prevent the player from enjoying the game.

    3. In online gaming, someone who takes pleasure in creating grief for an opponent via various "cheap" tactics.

    I wish Jork would stop friggen griefing my guild mates everytime we log in and play"

     

    "1. griefer

    Someone, usually in an online game, who intentionally, and usually repeatedly, attempts to degrade anothers experience or torment them.

    Examples of griefing:

    1. Player vs player abuse: Singling out the same person and killing them over and over when they are defensless until hey log off.

    2. Kill stealing: Repeatedly trying to steal another persons kills so that their time is wasted.

    3. Verbal abuse: Spamming a person with vulgar, hatefull, or offensive messages.

    4. Blocking: Getting in anothers way so they cannot move or get out of a particular area.

    5. "Training": Triggering many monsters, almost always impossible to fight and survive, with the intention to either run someone out of an area or kill them indirectly if the server is not 'player vs player' enabled.

    Griefing in massively multiplayer online role playing games are usually bannable on first offense and less common (thoguh still visably present).

    Griefing is much more common on private servers for first person shooters like Counterstrike and Battlefield 1942.

    Griefers and Powergamers are the 2 worst problems in online games today. "

     

     

    Now shush it.

     

     

    So seriously shush it.

    Playing: Guild Wars and Exteel
    Loved: WoW, Guild Wars, FFXI, and Lineage 2
    Liked: Exteel, WAR, and Lineage 1
    Hated:City of Heroes, City of Villians, Matrix Online, Runescape, and D&D Online.
    Waiting For: Aion, Guild Wars 2, FFXIV, and SW:TOR

  • u18bu2sa0ku18bu2sa0k Member Posts: 144
    Originally posted by Mrbluray


    There is no such thing as "griefing" or "ganking".   They are simply excuses made up for one reason or another. It's all in your head.

     

    there IS griefing and there IS ganking,you just dont consider them as one,fair enough.

     

    its all in your Head? your whole life is in your head im afraid...

  • MrblurayMrbluray Member Posts: 248
    Originally posted by xaldraxius


     

    Originally posted by Mrbluray


    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Originally posted by Mrbluray


    Originally posted by dhayes68
     
    Griefing is when you enjoy and set out to ruin someone elses enjoyment of the game. Griefing is when the griefer is not playing against the char in the game, but is playing specifically to annoy the other player outside of the game.  Its not about winning a fight, scoring point, achieving an objective in the context of the game. Griefing solely about you getting your fun by ruining someone elses fun. 





     Whether or not players on the opposite faction have fun or not is of no concern.  Such things are useless to think about.  That is why there is no such thing as "griefing".   





    If there is no such thing as griefing, and no emotional component, what would be the motivation for a high level char to kill over and over a much lower level char? In a lot of games the difference in levels precludes rewards or just because after killing the same person x number of times the reward stops. Not to mention, what feeling of winning can there be for a high level to one-shot over and over some noob?





    That is a good question.   For me personally,  I don't pay attention to level.   I have however killed players repeatedly.  

    In the case of Aion,  I do it in order to win.   Both as a personal win, and a win for my faction in general.   If by doing such things I weaken the morale of my enemy then it makes it easier for your faction to win, does it not?

     

     

    It's not 'weakening the morale' of your enemies, it's making people, in all likelihood children, feel bad to the point they don't want to play.

    Is it right then to do such? You say it's just a game and you aren't emotionally involved in it, but does that make it okay? Does right and wrong not exist outside of your own personal agenda?

    There are going to be winners and losers in games, that is what games are about, but to take advantage of all the time you spent 'grinding' by killing someone over and over who has no chance of beating you is griefing.

    Whether you feel bad about it or not doesn't make it anything else.

     

    Whether or not someone else feels bad is beyond my control and is none of my concern. 

  • xaldraxiusxaldraxius Member Posts: 1,249

    It's not beyond your control. Play fair and no one gets hurt. And no, just because there is nothing stopping you doesn't make it fair.

  • MrPhireMrPhire Member Posts: 212

    It is when it bans you. Maybe not. Maybe you just go troll somewere else. Maybe that's your whole life. But you know what your whole life sums up to? Nothing. If you can't have fun, then your not needed in life. Its better just sink into a depression when you find out that life isn't about winning or loosing. It's about living. No were does living mean winning or loosing besides in war. And in war you wouldn't be truely living. The meaning of life to you would mean to server you country and your people. Not to harass the innocent. I'm glad we all can realize you are just a fool who wants attention. You are the joker and I'm the batman. although I know your a fool and a wasteful idiot, I will still prove you wrong. Because sooner or later you'll get it. Or someone else will and completely cripple your life.

    Playing: Guild Wars and Exteel
    Loved: WoW, Guild Wars, FFXI, and Lineage 2
    Liked: Exteel, WAR, and Lineage 1
    Hated:City of Heroes, City of Villians, Matrix Online, Runescape, and D&D Online.
    Waiting For: Aion, Guild Wars 2, FFXIV, and SW:TOR

  • JeardawgJeardawg Member UncommonPosts: 31

    I think you have totally won at MMOs and totally captured the idea,  you should probably move on to a different hobby that doesn't involve contact with anyone else.

    The rest of us will have to make do with having fun while we play video games.

     

    This is a useless troll thread that has given someone way too much attention.

     

  • MrPhireMrPhire Member Posts: 212
    Originally posted by Jeardawg


    I think you have totally won at MMOs and totally captured the idea,  you should probably move on to a different hobby that doesn't involve contact with anyone else.
    The rest of us will have to make do with having fun while we play video games.
     
    This is a useless troll thread that has given someone way too much attention.
     

     

    agreed

    Playing: Guild Wars and Exteel
    Loved: WoW, Guild Wars, FFXI, and Lineage 2
    Liked: Exteel, WAR, and Lineage 1
    Hated:City of Heroes, City of Villians, Matrix Online, Runescape, and D&D Online.
    Waiting For: Aion, Guild Wars 2, FFXIV, and SW:TOR

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