No bro, wasn't saying you lose as in you fail. I'm saying you lose in the fact that it does not achieve complete immersion or even close to being immersive. Phasing could work, but people will continue to claim instanced areas kill immersion. So both sides will continue to complain, nobody wins. I think non respawning bosses could work in a very very large sandbox MMO, but I don't see it making many happy in a theme park.
Yes, i know. Like I said, what he was wanting, isnt available now. It can only hide some cheese. ok? what he wants...bosses that stay dead...cant be done now. OK? But, desgin can limit how cheesy it feels. So you win...it cant, and wont be done at this time in history. But it can feel less lame. Meaning a little better experience than what you expected. Only talking about feeling less immersion breaking as opposed to completely immersion breaking. Bosses that stay dead...like I said, isnt available at this time. It wont be in any themepark or sandbox for quite a long time.
Phasing now is like ben franklin flying a kite. So bosses that stay dead...NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Can it feel less lame? Appearently you say no. I say yes. You dont have to instance the entire game. Just used to capture the feeling a litttle better.
he's just describing the feeling he wants by using bosses that stay dead as an example. Your focusing on the example, the example is irrelevent. It's the feeling, immersion, emotion, desire, ect thats important. Gamers can only use what they have to desribe what they want. Don't you play games?
Does that confuse you more? In a hurry so if I explained that wrong sorry.
I focused on the example because it was his primary problem it seemed with ToR. And this started out with me basically saying "well no MMO has that right now", he then questioned why I see no problem with the current state of MMOs compared to his example. I gave my reason and that being "it just doesn't bother me". So this is all preference dragged on far to long. I know he is describing his feelings about it, I was doing the same, ok?
I'm not claiming it can not be less lame, I'm not exactly sure where you got that from, but given the only example of perma death bosses, I was saying that was lame, to me. Phasing, your example, I'm fine with and as you said phasing currently is still very new. I can see it getting better. But people will then complain about phased areas/zones ruining immersion for them.
To be honest I'm hoping BioWare mixes it up with ToR. Seems most developers are getting scared to get off the best working formula and try something new. So yes I to am hoping for something new that can better immersion. As you said, "currently" his idea is not in an MMO, this is where my objection kicked in, because no other MMO has this right now, so I don't get how that one example makes ToR a single player game (and those are his words, not mine).
You're right. Was in an extreme hurry when I posted, still am, but I knew what he was getting at. It was more than just the example he gave in my opinion. And the technology isnt there for that unless you want a frustrating game no one plays. We should all push for better technology and design. And as long as it gets a step better, we're ok. I know what you mean, and I know what he means. The words and examples we use can be fought over forever. And TOR is a step in the right direction, which it's design may actually give him something he's looking for in a different way. But only through the experience of playing it. There isnt a mechanic in the game you can point to that I know of. It's not a single event like he describes, but an overall experience. It's not immersion felt through the world, but through the story and choices.And those effects on the aspects of the game Yes, it's different than what he wants, but similar in ways he might not realize. Didnt want him to go away without that.
Forget about the bosses and phasing. that wasnt my original point. only answers that Im able to give to your replies to me. I assumed you were looking at his post the way I was when I first replied, not at the words, but the greater meaning. Sorry for the mixup. Also didnt have time nor could I give examples that exist from current games to your replies. Thats Why the answers were lacking. And like I said, I just used your reply to him, to let him know. Like Im doing now:)
When the technology gets there, the type of game he's looking for (in my opion) will be the way to do things. But not yet. Though it may not be like anything we can describe through our past experience with games and their terminology. And without the frustration. Unless technology is stifled for some reason. And it won't be something you don't like either:)
Gotta go, wife yelling at me to hurry up.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
No bro, wasn't saying you lose as in you fail. I'm saying you lose in the fact that it does not achieve complete immersion or even close to being immersive. Phasing could work, but people will continue to claim instanced areas kill immersion. So both sides will continue to complain, nobody wins. I think non respawning bosses could work in a very very large sandbox MMO, but I don't see it making many happy in a theme park.
Yes, i know. Like I said, what he was wanting, isnt available now. It can only hide some cheese. ok? what he wants...bosses that stay dead...cant be done now. OK? But, desgin can limit how cheesy it feels. So you win...it cant, and wont be done at this time in history. But it can feel less lame. Meaning a little better experience than what you expected. Only talking about feeling less immersion breaking as opposed to completely immersion breaking. Bosses that stay dead...like I said, isnt available at this time. It wont be in any themepark or sandbox for quite a long time.
Phasing now is like ben franklin flying a kite. So bosses that stay dead...NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Can it feel less lame? Appearently you say no. I say yes. You dont have to instance the entire game. Just used to capture the feeling a litttle better.
he's just describing the feeling he wants by using bosses that stay dead as an example. Your focusing on the example, the example is irrelevent. It's the feeling, immersion, emotion, desire, ect thats important. Gamers can only use what they have to desribe what they want. Don't you play games?
Does that confuse you more? In a hurry so if I explained that wrong sorry.
I focused on the example because it was his primary problem it seemed with ToR. And this started out with me basically saying "well no MMO has that right now", he then questioned why I see no problem with the current state of MMOs compared to his example. I gave my reason and that being "it just doesn't bother me". So this is all preference dragged on far to long. I know he is describing his feelings about it, I was doing the same, ok?
I'm not claiming it can not be less lame, I'm not exactly sure where you got that from, but given the only example of perma death bosses, I was saying that was lame, to me. Phasing, your example, I'm fine with and as you said phasing currently is still very new. I can see it getting better. But people will then complain about phased areas/zones ruining immersion for them.
To be honest I'm hoping BioWare mixes it up with ToR. Seems most developers are getting scared to get off the best working formula and try something new. So yes I to am hoping for something new that can better immersion. As you said, "currently" his idea is not in an MMO, this is where my objection kicked in, because no other MMO has this right now, so I don't get how that one example makes ToR a single player game (and those are his words, not mine).
You're right. Was in an extreme hurry when I posted, still am, but I knew what he was getting at. It was more than just the example he gave in my opinion. And the technology isnt there for that unless you want a frustrating game no one plays. We should all push for better technology and design. And as long as it gets a step better, we're ok. I know what you mean, and I know what he means. The words and examples we use can be fought over forever. And TOR is a step in the right direction, which it's design may actually give him something he's looking for in a different way. But only through the experience of playing it. There isnt a mechanic in the game you can point to that I know of. It's not a single event like he describes, but an overall experience. It's not immersion felt through the world, but through the story and choices.And those effects on the aspects of the game Yes, it's different than what he wants, but similar in ways he might not realize. Didnt want him to go away without that.
Forget about the bosses and phasing. that wasnt my original point. only answers that Im able to give to your replies to me. I assumed you were looking at his post the way I was when I first replied, not at the words, but the greater meaning. Sorry for the mixup. Also didnt have time nor could I give examples that exist from current games to your replies. Thats Why the answers were lacking. And like I said, I just used your reply to him, to let him know. Like Im doing now:)
When the technology gets there, the type of game he's looking for (in my opion) will be the way to do things. But not yet. Though it may not be like anything we can describe through our past experience with games and their terminology. And without the frustration. Unless technology is stifled for some reason. And it won't be something you don't like either:)
Gotta go, wife yelling at me to hurry up.
Aren't the SWTOR Flashpoints similar to phasing? I am doubting you can replay a story portion of the game so how is it different than phasing?
If you like phasing, you should like what they are doing in TOR.
I just dont get why games like this are sold as MMORPGs. Clearly it is would be better suited as a story driven single/multiplayer game than an MMORPG. I mean what reason would there be for this game to be a MMORPG? Except ofcourse the monthly fee...
So what is this game missing thats making it not a MMO? Be sure to think hard!
Well, for me, for a game to feel like an MMO I need to feel that the actions I perform on the world has some impact on it. Playing through a single player story that does not impact the world would not only not qualify but would also break the immersion.
Oh I just killed Boba Fett but so are 1000s others in the same world. Wtf?
So to answer your question what this, or any game, needs to feel like a real MMORPG is to have either PvE or PvP that impacts the world. So if I or my group kills an epic dragon it stays dead and does not respawn infinite number of times.
Or in PvP if my guild attacks and drives out a rival guild then that effect should be felt by that guild and the world as whole. That is what makes an MMO, for me.
What you describe is a sandbox game. the stuff you want will never get in a theme park game.
Join DF, Eve or wait for mortal online and earth rise if its that kind of immersion that you want.
You can find me in Darkfall online.
Starwars rely on fans of starwars and bioware only. So get ready to only see what you saw in other bioware RPG games. Nothing else.
Here is a definition for an MMOG nabbed from wikipedia:
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMOG or simply MMO) is a video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet, and feature at least one persistent world. They are, however, not necessarily games played on personal computers. Most of the newer game consoles, including the PSP, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, Nintendo DS and Wii can access the Internet and may therefore run MMO games. Additionally, mobile devices and smartphones based on such operating systems as Windows Mobile and Google's Android, as well as the Apple iPhone are seeing an increase in the amount of MMO games available.
MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.
Now with the information available at this time does SWTOR fit the definition of a MMOG, for me it does.
You will either like it or hate it, Bioware make good games, good stories and are well polished with few bugs(some are annoying though but they often patch these). People hoping this will be a WoW killer are going to be let down and those who keep wishing that this was a MMORPG which is a sandboxed environment are going to be let down. Personally I think the term MMORPG shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as SWTOR , as with the information they have released so far and the lack of information regarding how people will interact with each other, the social aspects of the game, how persistent the world will be etc SWTOR at the moment in my eyes doesn't fit the definition of a MMORPG.
I personally am not expecting anything from SWTOR other then being a good game that has MMO characteristics whether it will have any longevity is another thing all together.
These are just my views and by no means am I forcing them on anyone etc just voicing my opinion so agree or disagree if you want
Onstage at the San Francisco announcement press conference, he called the new game "the most compelling and challenging project I've worked on, ever", claiming that The Old Republic is "the first truly story-driven MMO, and that makes it really exciting."
Now by not specifically stating "MMORPG" and calling it an "MMO" could mean that they assume the terms to be interchangeable or that they in fact meant MMO in which case a lot of people have jumped the gun and began calling it a MMORPG,but to me personally both terms MMO and MMORPG mean two distinct different things. One is very specific to a particular type of MMO and one is a broader term which can be applied to a variety of games here are some (thanks to wikipedia for some of these again):
MMO role-playing game
MMO first-person shooter
MMO real-time strategy
MMO sports game
MMO social game
MMO management game
MMO rhythm game
MMO adventure game
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It's a MMORPG, it's even labeled as an MMORPG on the SWTOR site and Wikipedia, which is the site you have based your post off of. Dont use definitions and explain what it means to "you". It's looking to be more of a MMORPG then most games that have came out over the years. People just figure when a new game mixes it up and trys something new and trys to get off that same formula every company is using, it's no longer a MMO"RPG". What part about "Role playing game" is difficult to grasp?
Wikipedia - Define MMORPG - As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a fictional character (often in a fantasy world), and take control over many of that character's actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world, usually hosted by the game's publisher, which continues to exist and evolve while the player is away from the game. This is often reffered to being offline, or AFK (away from keyboard).
So answer the questions
Do you play a fictional character?
Will you be playing with a number of players in a virtual world?
Will the world continue to exist/evolve both online/offline?
I know the answers, do you? Feel free to answer/criticize. I'll check the replies later.
It's a MMORPG, it's even labeled as an MMORPG on the SWTOR site and Wikipedia, which is the site you have based your post off of. Dont use definitions and explain what it means to "you". It's looking to be more of a MMORPG then most games that have came out over the years. People just figure when a new game mixes it up and trys something new and trys to get off that same formula every company is using, it's no longer a MMO"RPG". What part about "Role playing game" is difficult to grasp? Wikipedia - Define MMORPG - As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a fictional character (often in a fantasy world), and take control over many of that character's actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world, usually hosted by the game's publisher, which continues to exist and evolve while the player is away from the game. This is often reffered to being offline, or AFK (away from keyboard). So answer the questions
Do you play a fictional character? Will you be playing with a number of players in a virtual world? Will the world continue to exist/evolve both online/offline?
I know the answers, do you? Feel free to answer/criticize. I'll check the replies later.
I said that I FEEL it doesn't fit the definition of an MMORPG and I was referring to the Wikipedia definition which is this:
Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (commonly abbreviated MMORPG) is a genre of computer role-playing games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world. The term MMORPG was coined by Richard Garriott,[citation needed] the creator of Ultima Online, the game credited with popularizing the genre in 1997.[1][2]
As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a fictional character (often in a fantasy world),[3] and take control over many of that character's actions.[4] MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world, usually hosted by the game's publisher, which continues to exist and evolve while the player is away from the game. This is often reffered to being offline, or AFK (away from keyboard).
Now with the information available Bioware have been very vague on how very large numbers of players will interact in terms of PVP, PVE, Raiding, Endgame content, social interaction, crafting, trading all of which I feel a corner stone of an MMORPG which helps build the community which will ultimately decide if the game is a success or failure, you have no community you have no game - notice Im not evening hinting about a sand boxed game you can have all those without one. You might feel differently which is fine.
This has nothing to do with mixing it up (which is good it brings something new to the table), if you mix it up too much you no longer can be described as what you are attempting to be. Also how heavily instanced will the game world be, if it's too heavily instanced/zoned I personally do not class that as persistent that's one reason I never liked AoC apart from the game being broken at the start.
I'm being a realist something that the past few MMORPG failures have taught me I'm looking forward to SWTOR I'm not going to sit there blowing smoke up peoples asses stating this game will be amazing and save MMO's when I have not seen or heard or played anything tangible directly from Bioware. I shall repeat what I said SWTOR not be everyone's cup of tea it will be a good game and that I FEEL it doesn't fall in to the category of an MMORPG i'd personally class it as a MMOAG an action/adventure game as that's all I've actually seen is combat and action until they provide more information regarding what I said above.
**Edited to remove misunderstanding**
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I really can't give a long reply, kinda busy this morning. I wasn't being aggresive, what exactly gave you that idea? I'll update this post when I get time to read everything, ok?
In that case I apologise some times you can take posts the wrong way and misunderstand the intent (i'll edit the post to reflect that), but thanks for the reply Like I said every thing I said is the way I feel I'm not trying to state anything as fact or push anything down any ones throat, or slate Bioware or SWTOR they are just my opinions. Speaking of busy I need to get back to work
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It's a MMORPG, it's even labeled as an MMORPG on the SWTOR site and Wikipedia, which is the site you have based your post off of. Dont use definitions and explain what it means to "you". It's looking to be more of a MMORPG then most games that have came out over the years. People just figure when a new game mixes it up and trys something new and trys to get off that same formula every company is using, it's no longer a MMO"RPG". What part about "Role playing game" is difficult to grasp? Wikipedia - Define MMORPG - As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a fictional character (often in a fantasy world), and take control over many of that character's actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world, usually hosted by the game's publisher, which continues to exist and evolve while the player is away from the game. This is often reffered to being offline, or AFK (away from keyboard). So answer the questions
Do you play a fictional character? Will you be playing with a number of players in a virtual world? Will the world continue to exist/evolve both online/offline?
I know the answers, do you? Feel free to answer/criticize. I'll check the replies later.
I said that I FEEL it doesn't fit the definition of an MMORPG and I was referring to the Wikipedia definition which is this:
Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (commonly abbreviated MMORPG) is a genre of computer role-playing games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world. The term MMORPG was coined by Richard Garriott,[citation needed] the creator of Ultima Online, the game credited with popularizing the genre in 1997.[1][2]
As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a fictional character (often in a fantasy world),[3] and take control over many of that character's actions.[4] MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world, usually hosted by the game's publisher, which continues to exist and evolve while the player is away from the game. This is often reffered to being offline, or AFK (away from keyboard).
Now with the information available Bioware have been very vague on how very large numbers of players will interact in terms of PVP, PVE, Raiding, Endgame content, social interaction, crafting, trading all of which I feel a corner stone of a MMORPG which helps build the community which will ultimately decide if the game is a success or failure, you have no community you have no game. You might feel differently, this has nothing to do with mixing it up (which is good it brings something new to the table), if you mix it up too much you no longer can be described as what you are attempting to be. Also how heavily instanced will the game world be, if it's too heavily instanced I personally do not class that as persistent.
I'm being a realist something that the past few MMORPG failures have taught me I'm looking forward to SWTOR I'm not going to sit there blowing smoke up peoples asses stating this game will be amazing and save MMO's when I have not seen or heard or played anything tangible directly from Bioware. I shall repeat what I said SWTOR not be everyone's cup of tea it will be a good game and that I FEEL it doesn't fall in to the category of an MMORPG until they provide more information regarding what I said above.
**Edited to remove misunderstanding**
There is a major difference in Feeling and Being the definition. Although currently you feel it does not quite match your standards of a MMO"RPG" it still is a MMORPG, it has everything the definition said it would have. To start out, you mention number of players interaction, a few pages back Maskweasel shared this interview.
"Ten Ton Hammer: It’s also nice that you guys obviously got your message across about the importance of personal stories.
Blain Christine: It’s funny because that’s almost like a double-edged sword in a way. We’ve been telling people that we are doing story unlike any other MMO, but then people start asking things like, “Are you really doing an MMO?” And it’s hard to demo that in a live demo where we have 15 minutes to run through stuff. But when you see the outdoor areas in our demo where we’re running around Ord Mantell as the Smuggler or we’re running around Hutta outside the cantina, that’s where the world opens up and it’s not instanced content. So it is an MMO, there’s going to be other players out there and you’ll be able to have all the exploration and combat that you might expect out of an MMO."
ok So with this, it answers a few questions. It will be open world. And the fact that it is open world means you will run into players, which means more player to player interaction.
PvP/PvE. definatlly in game. PvE (not endgame but general world PvE) Is apparently going to be huge considering the different planets and creatures/humanoids you will encounter. As for PvP, at pax they let everybody know it's in the game. Not sure on the size. But with an open world, and just being the Star Wars world in general. I can expect it to be large scale. But can never be to sure.
Raiding/Endgame content, according to them (this was mentioned before they actually released the name of this MMO) will be huge. But you are right they are vague on this. Even though endgame does not make a game a MMORPG, I feel it's required, like you. So I'm mostly speaking strait from the definition, but acknowledge it's importance.
Crafting has already been announced, they are still vague, but it's there. So atleast you have something.
Trading, I'm really not sure what you mean by this. There are many forms. Are you talking players trading Items. Or player owned vendors/stores like SWG? I'm pretty sure the latter isn't making it in, as far as I know. again you can never be to sure.
Has a lot to do with mixing it up, in my opinion. The funny thing is, BioWare doesn't even call the game a MMORPG now. They now call it a SDMMORPG (Story Driven MMORPG). They want to set themselves apart from the rest. And doing this they have caught a lot of attention, both good and bad. Lots of people claim this game will not be a MMORPG, just because it focuses on story. Which in most cases you pick up a RPG game, and it's main focus is story and character development.
I have no intentions of changing the way you feel, that's BioWares job. If you feel it's not a MMORPG, thats great. I'm just going by the definition supplied, thats where we differ. I respect your feelings on the subject. Hopefully BioWare can deliver everything promised, thats the most important thing.
Hi thanks for the reply and a great post this article states how I feel and it is a good read although there are some aspects I don't agree on a majority of it is thought provoking:
In terms of trading what I meant was that although in an MMORPG a majority of player interaction normally involves combat (PVE, PVP etc)there is no reason why it has to be limited to that and cannot include trading/negotiating be it through auction houses, player trades or a player vendor system which I think doesn't detract from a game but adds to the depth. So I was just stating that it is another form of player interaction which would be nice to have in the game and add to the feel you are actually part of a wider community in game rather then just logging on and doing a few quests with a small group of people to advance your character and logging off, you have something else to do which lets you engage with other people.
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Hi thanks for the reply and a great post this article states how I feel and it is a good read although there are some aspects I don't agree on a majority of it is thought provoking: internetgames.about.com/od/mmorpgs/a/whatisammog.htm
In terms of trading what I meant was that although in an MMORPG a majority of player interaction normally involves combat (PVE, PVP etc)there is no reason why it has to be limited to that and cannot include trading/negotiating be it through auction houses, player trades or a player vendor system which I think doesn't detract from a game but adds to the depth. So I was just stating that it is another form of player interaction which would be nice to have in the game.
Ah ok, I really don't know much about the trading that takes place in ToR. Maybe one of the other guys can dig something up for you, if anything has been said that is. And I'll check the link out in a bit.
It will be a game first and I would not be so concerned on what lable is placed upon the game. The fact the dev is selling us on how a group consists of two people I am doubting this game is going to require a high level coordinated team play with many players at once. Wether that makes it a mmo or not is really up to you the individual. As an mmo fan and not a singleplayer or online RTS fan I don't predict myself buying this game. I don't really care what the game's lable is. I hope that it is enjoyable for the players who want such a game.
In this interview they state you can have 20 man groups
yeah i'm going to believe something that comes from a network who has shows about whos boobs are bigger and whats the best looking playboy playmate or the best of internet porn
I just dont get why games like this are sold as MMORPGs. Clearly it is would be better suited as a story driven single/multiplayer game than an MMORPG. I mean what reason would there be for this game to be a MMORPG? Except ofcourse the monthly fee...
So what is this game missing thats making it not a MMO? Be sure to think hard!
The need to interact with large numbers of other players.
Just being able to form a group does not make a game an MMO. Saying otherwise would be claiming that Diablo was an MMO.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
I just dont get why games like this are sold as MMORPGs. Clearly it is would be better suited as a story driven single/multiplayer game than an MMORPG. I mean what reason would there be for this game to be a MMORPG? Except ofcourse the monthly fee...
So what is this game missing thats making it not a MMO? Be sure to think hard!
The need to interact with large numbers of other players.
Just being able to form a group does not make a game an MMO. Saying otherwise would be claiming that Diablo was an MMO.
If you need a driving force to get you to interact and group, that's your problem. They already said the game would have end game raiding. Pretty sure grouping will be required. More players adds to your story. What more do you want?
I just dont get why games like this are sold as MMORPGs. Clearly it is would be better suited as a story driven single/multiplayer game than an MMORPG. I mean what reason would there be for this game to be a MMORPG? Except ofcourse the monthly fee...
So what is this game missing thats making it not a MMO? Be sure to think hard!
The need to interact with large numbers of other players.
Just being able to form a group does not make a game an MMO. Saying otherwise would be claiming that Diablo was an MMO.
yes and thats why tor isn't an mmo.
look at pre-cu swg you had 30 man groups. you had to interact with other players in order to go out and do things. there was no solo content or any of that. rather you had to go out and make friends with people to do things.
tor? you can solo your way in tor, hohum who cares.
Originally posted by stillkillin yes and thats why tor isn't an mmo. look at pre-cu swg you had 30 man groups. you had to interact with other players in order to go out and do things. there was no solo content or any of that. rather you had to go out and make friends with people to do things. tor? you can solo your way in tor, hohum who cares.
Wait ... are you claiming that you couldn't solo through pre-CU SWG? Sorry, but I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I just dont get why games like this are sold as MMORPGs. Clearly it is would be better suited as a story driven single/multiplayer game than an MMORPG. I mean what reason would there be for this game to be a MMORPG? Except ofcourse the monthly fee...
So what is this game missing thats making it not a MMO? Be sure to think hard!
The need to interact with large numbers of other players.
Just being able to form a group does not make a game an MMO. Saying otherwise would be claiming that Diablo was an MMO.
yes and thats why tor isn't an mmo.
look at pre-cu swg you had 30 man groups. you had to interact with other players in order to go out and do things. there was no solo content or any of that. rather you had to go out and make friends with people to do things.
tor? you can solo your way in tor, hohum who cares.
Let me highlight the most important part of his post. There was never a need to interact or group in SWG. You could do fine without talking or grouping in that game. FFXI is a game where you NEED to do both. L2Read.
I just dont get why games like this are sold as MMORPGs. Clearly it is would be better suited as a story driven single/multiplayer game than an MMORPG. I mean what reason would there be for this game to be a MMORPG? Except ofcourse the monthly fee...
So what is this game missing thats making it not a MMO? Be sure to think hard!
The need to interact with large numbers of other players.
Just being able to form a group does not make a game an MMO. Saying otherwise would be claiming that Diablo was an MMO.
yes and thats why tor isn't an mmo.
look at pre-cu swg you had 30 man groups. you had to interact with other players in order to go out and do things. there was no solo content or any of that. rather you had to go out and make friends with people to do things.
tor? you can solo your way in tor, hohum who cares.
Let me highlight the most important part of his post. There was never a need to interact or group in SWG. You could do fine without talking or grouping in that game. FFXI is a game where you NEED to do both. L2Read.
15 pages of trying to reason with nonsensical unfounded bollocks from cock ends like urself and the OP.
I just dont get why games like this are sold as MMORPGs. Clearly it is would be better suited as a story driven single/multiplayer game than an MMORPG. I mean what reason would there be for this game to be a MMORPG? Except ofcourse the monthly fee...
So what is this game missing thats making it not a MMO? Be sure to think hard!
The need to interact with large numbers of other players.
Just being able to form a group does not make a game an MMO. Saying otherwise would be claiming that Diablo was an MMO.
yes and thats why tor isn't an mmo.
look at pre-cu swg you had 30 man groups. you had to interact with other players in order to go out and do things. there was no solo content or any of that. rather you had to go out and make friends with people to do things.
tor? you can solo your way in tor, hohum who cares.
Let me highlight the most important part of his post. There was never a need to interact or group in SWG. You could do fine without talking or grouping in that game. FFXI is a game where you NEED to do both. L2Read.
15 pages of trying to reason with nonsensical unfounded bollocks from cock ends like urself and the OP.
Who cares indeed.
What? Are you failing to read as well? He was saying ToR will be boring because you can solo, while comparing it to SWG, a game that you can also solo.
Originally posted by stillkillin yes and thats why tor isn't an mmo. look at pre-cu swg you had 30 man groups. you had to interact with other players in order to go out and do things. there was no solo content or any of that. rather you had to go out and make friends with people to do things. tor? you can solo your way in tor, hohum who cares.
Wait ... are you claiming that you couldn't solo through pre-CU SWG? Sorry, but I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
Maybe what he's really saying is that he sucks at MMOs, including SWG. To me you are fail if you can't play an MMO outside of a group, and TBH SWG did not have 30 man groups, the max was 20.
I mean really, Tatooine hunting groups were for noobs with broken armor and crappy weapons lol.
Originally posted by stillkillin yes and thats why tor isn't an mmo. look at pre-cu swg you had 30 man groups. you had to interact with other players in order to go out and do things. there was no solo content or any of that. rather you had to go out and make friends with people to do things. tor? you can solo your way in tor, hohum who cares.
Wait ... are you claiming that you couldn't solo through pre-CU SWG? Sorry, but I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
Maybe what he's really saying is that he sucks at MMOs, including SWG. To me you are fail if you can't play an MMO outside of a group, and TBH SWG did not have 30 man groups, the max was 20.
There is no a doubt he was probably bad at the game. If this didn't give it away, the constant crying over hardcore unlockable jedi for ToR was, you can always spot weak links when they scream for alpha classes in MMOs. I still don't get how he fails to understand SWG was not suppose to have playable jedi "at all", yet he complains that this game will be full of them.
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AMEN!!
No bro, wasn't saying you lose as in you fail. I'm saying you lose in the fact that it does not achieve complete immersion or even close to being immersive. Phasing could work, but people will continue to claim instanced areas kill immersion. So both sides will continue to complain, nobody wins. I think non respawning bosses could work in a very very large sandbox MMO, but I don't see it making many happy in a theme park.
Yes, i know. Like I said, what he was wanting, isnt available now. It can only hide some cheese. ok? what he wants...bosses that stay dead...cant be done now. OK? But, desgin can limit how cheesy it feels. So you win...it cant, and wont be done at this time in history. But it can feel less lame. Meaning a little better experience than what you expected. Only talking about feeling less immersion breaking as opposed to completely immersion breaking. Bosses that stay dead...like I said, isnt available at this time. It wont be in any themepark or sandbox for quite a long time.
Phasing now is like ben franklin flying a kite. So bosses that stay dead...NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Can it feel less lame? Appearently you say no. I say yes. You dont have to instance the entire game. Just used to capture the feeling a litttle better.
he's just describing the feeling he wants by using bosses that stay dead as an example. Your focusing on the example, the example is irrelevent. It's the feeling, immersion, emotion, desire, ect thats important. Gamers can only use what they have to desribe what they want. Don't you play games?
Does that confuse you more? In a hurry so if I explained that wrong sorry.
I focused on the example because it was his primary problem it seemed with ToR. And this started out with me basically saying "well no MMO has that right now", he then questioned why I see no problem with the current state of MMOs compared to his example. I gave my reason and that being "it just doesn't bother me". So this is all preference dragged on far to long. I know he is describing his feelings about it, I was doing the same, ok?
I'm not claiming it can not be less lame, I'm not exactly sure where you got that from, but given the only example of perma death bosses, I was saying that was lame, to me. Phasing, your example, I'm fine with and as you said phasing currently is still very new. I can see it getting better. But people will then complain about phased areas/zones ruining immersion for them.
To be honest I'm hoping BioWare mixes it up with ToR. Seems most developers are getting scared to get off the best working formula and try something new. So yes I to am hoping for something new that can better immersion. As you said, "currently" his idea is not in an MMO, this is where my objection kicked in, because no other MMO has this right now, so I don't get how that one example makes ToR a single player game (and those are his words, not mine).
You're right. Was in an extreme hurry when I posted, still am, but I knew what he was getting at. It was more than just the example he gave in my opinion. And the technology isnt there for that unless you want a frustrating game no one plays. We should all push for better technology and design. And as long as it gets a step better, we're ok. I know what you mean, and I know what he means. The words and examples we use can be fought over forever. And TOR is a step in the right direction, which it's design may actually give him something he's looking for in a different way. But only through the experience of playing it. There isnt a mechanic in the game you can point to that I know of. It's not a single event like he describes, but an overall experience. It's not immersion felt through the world, but through the story and choices.And those effects on the aspects of the game Yes, it's different than what he wants, but similar in ways he might not realize. Didnt want him to go away without that.
Forget about the bosses and phasing. that wasnt my original point. only answers that Im able to give to your replies to me. I assumed you were looking at his post the way I was when I first replied, not at the words, but the greater meaning. Sorry for the mixup. Also didnt have time nor could I give examples that exist from current games to your replies. Thats Why the answers were lacking. And like I said, I just used your reply to him, to let him know. Like Im doing now:)
When the technology gets there, the type of game he's looking for (in my opion) will be the way to do things. But not yet. Though it may not be like anything we can describe through our past experience with games and their terminology. And without the frustration. Unless technology is stifled for some reason. And it won't be something you don't like either:)
Gotta go, wife yelling at me to hurry up.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
No bro, wasn't saying you lose as in you fail. I'm saying you lose in the fact that it does not achieve complete immersion or even close to being immersive. Phasing could work, but people will continue to claim instanced areas kill immersion. So both sides will continue to complain, nobody wins. I think non respawning bosses could work in a very very large sandbox MMO, but I don't see it making many happy in a theme park.
Yes, i know. Like I said, what he was wanting, isnt available now. It can only hide some cheese. ok? what he wants...bosses that stay dead...cant be done now. OK? But, desgin can limit how cheesy it feels. So you win...it cant, and wont be done at this time in history. But it can feel less lame. Meaning a little better experience than what you expected. Only talking about feeling less immersion breaking as opposed to completely immersion breaking. Bosses that stay dead...like I said, isnt available at this time. It wont be in any themepark or sandbox for quite a long time.
Phasing now is like ben franklin flying a kite. So bosses that stay dead...NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Can it feel less lame? Appearently you say no. I say yes. You dont have to instance the entire game. Just used to capture the feeling a litttle better.
he's just describing the feeling he wants by using bosses that stay dead as an example. Your focusing on the example, the example is irrelevent. It's the feeling, immersion, emotion, desire, ect thats important. Gamers can only use what they have to desribe what they want. Don't you play games?
Does that confuse you more? In a hurry so if I explained that wrong sorry.
I focused on the example because it was his primary problem it seemed with ToR. And this started out with me basically saying "well no MMO has that right now", he then questioned why I see no problem with the current state of MMOs compared to his example. I gave my reason and that being "it just doesn't bother me". So this is all preference dragged on far to long. I know he is describing his feelings about it, I was doing the same, ok?
I'm not claiming it can not be less lame, I'm not exactly sure where you got that from, but given the only example of perma death bosses, I was saying that was lame, to me. Phasing, your example, I'm fine with and as you said phasing currently is still very new. I can see it getting better. But people will then complain about phased areas/zones ruining immersion for them.
To be honest I'm hoping BioWare mixes it up with ToR. Seems most developers are getting scared to get off the best working formula and try something new. So yes I to am hoping for something new that can better immersion. As you said, "currently" his idea is not in an MMO, this is where my objection kicked in, because no other MMO has this right now, so I don't get how that one example makes ToR a single player game (and those are his words, not mine).
You're right. Was in an extreme hurry when I posted, still am, but I knew what he was getting at. It was more than just the example he gave in my opinion. And the technology isnt there for that unless you want a frustrating game no one plays. We should all push for better technology and design. And as long as it gets a step better, we're ok. I know what you mean, and I know what he means. The words and examples we use can be fought over forever. And TOR is a step in the right direction, which it's design may actually give him something he's looking for in a different way. But only through the experience of playing it. There isnt a mechanic in the game you can point to that I know of. It's not a single event like he describes, but an overall experience. It's not immersion felt through the world, but through the story and choices.And those effects on the aspects of the game Yes, it's different than what he wants, but similar in ways he might not realize. Didnt want him to go away without that.
Forget about the bosses and phasing. that wasnt my original point. only answers that Im able to give to your replies to me. I assumed you were looking at his post the way I was when I first replied, not at the words, but the greater meaning. Sorry for the mixup. Also didnt have time nor could I give examples that exist from current games to your replies. Thats Why the answers were lacking. And like I said, I just used your reply to him, to let him know. Like Im doing now:)
When the technology gets there, the type of game he's looking for (in my opion) will be the way to do things. But not yet. Though it may not be like anything we can describe through our past experience with games and their terminology. And without the frustration. Unless technology is stifled for some reason. And it won't be something you don't like either:)
Gotta go, wife yelling at me to hurry up.
Aren't the SWTOR Flashpoints similar to phasing? I am doubting you can replay a story portion of the game so how is it different than phasing?
If you like phasing, you should like what they are doing in TOR.
So what is this game missing thats making it not a MMO? Be sure to think hard!
Well, for me, for a game to feel like an MMO I need to feel that the actions I perform on the world has some impact on it. Playing through a single player story that does not impact the world would not only not qualify but would also break the immersion.
Oh I just killed Boba Fett but so are 1000s others in the same world. Wtf?
So to answer your question what this, or any game, needs to feel like a real MMORPG is to have either PvE or PvP that impacts the world. So if I or my group kills an epic dragon it stays dead and does not respawn infinite number of times.
Or in PvP if my guild attacks and drives out a rival guild then that effect should be felt by that guild and the world as whole. That is what makes an MMO, for me.
What you describe is a sandbox game. the stuff you want will never get in a theme park game.
Join DF, Eve or wait for mortal online and earth rise if its that kind of immersion that you want.
You can find me in Darkfall online.
Starwars rely on fans of starwars and bioware only. So get ready to only see what you saw in other bioware RPG games. Nothing else.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Here is a definition for an MMOG nabbed from wikipedia:
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMOG or simply MMO) is a video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet, and feature at least one persistent world. They are, however, not necessarily games played on personal computers. Most of the newer game consoles, including the PSP, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, Nintendo DS and Wii can access the Internet and may therefore run MMO games. Additionally, mobile devices and smartphones based on such operating systems as Windows Mobile and Google's Android, as well as the Apple iPhone are seeing an increase in the amount of MMO games available.
MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.
Now with the information available at this time does SWTOR fit the definition of a MMOG, for me it does.
You will either like it or hate it, Bioware make good games, good stories and are well polished with few bugs(some are annoying though but they often patch these). People hoping this will be a WoW killer are going to be let down and those who keep wishing that this was a MMORPG which is a sandboxed environment are going to be let down. Personally I think the term MMORPG shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as SWTOR , as with the information they have released so far and the lack of information regarding how people will interact with each other, the social aspects of the game, how persistent the world will be etc SWTOR at the moment in my eyes doesn't fit the definition of a MMORPG.
I personally am not expecting anything from SWTOR other then being a good game that has MMO characteristics whether it will have any longevity is another thing all together.
These are just my views and by no means am I forcing them on anyone etc just voicing my opinion so agree or disagree if you want
Onstage at the San Francisco announcement press conference, he called the new game "the most compelling and challenging project I've worked on, ever", claiming that The Old Republic is "the first truly story-driven MMO, and that makes it really exciting."
Now by not specifically stating "MMORPG" and calling it an "MMO" could mean that they assume the terms to be interchangeable or that they in fact meant MMO in which case a lot of people have jumped the gun and began calling it a MMORPG,but to me personally both terms MMO and MMORPG mean two distinct different things. One is very specific to a particular type of MMO and one is a broader term which can be applied to a variety of games here are some (thanks to wikipedia for some of these again):
MMO role-playing game
MMO first-person shooter
MMO real-time strategy
MMO sports game
MMO social game
MMO management game
MMO rhythm game
MMO adventure game
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Interesting. Makes me not want to play anymore.
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It's a MMORPG, it's even labeled as an MMORPG on the SWTOR site and Wikipedia, which is the site you have based your post off of. Dont use definitions and explain what it means to "you". It's looking to be more of a MMORPG then most games that have came out over the years. People just figure when a new game mixes it up and trys something new and trys to get off that same formula every company is using, it's no longer a MMO"RPG". What part about "Role playing game" is difficult to grasp?
Wikipedia - Define MMORPG - As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a fictional character (often in a fantasy world), and take control over many of that character's actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world, usually hosted by the game's publisher, which continues to exist and evolve while the player is away from the game. This is often reffered to being offline, or AFK (away from keyboard).
So answer the questions
I know the answers, do you? Feel free to answer/criticize. I'll check the replies later.
I said that I FEEL it doesn't fit the definition of an MMORPG and I was referring to the Wikipedia definition which is this:
Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (commonly abbreviated MMORPG) is a genre of computer role-playing games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world. The term MMORPG was coined by Richard Garriott,[citation needed] the creator of Ultima Online, the game credited with popularizing the genre in 1997.[1][2]
As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a fictional character (often in a fantasy world),[3] and take control over many of that character's actions.[4] MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world, usually hosted by the game's publisher, which continues to exist and evolve while the player is away from the game. This is often reffered to being offline, or AFK (away from keyboard).
Now with the information available Bioware have been very vague on how very large numbers of players will interact in terms of PVP, PVE, Raiding, Endgame content, social interaction, crafting, trading all of which I feel a corner stone of an MMORPG which helps build the community which will ultimately decide if the game is a success or failure, you have no community you have no game - notice Im not evening hinting about a sand boxed game you can have all those without one. You might feel differently which is fine.
This has nothing to do with mixing it up (which is good it brings something new to the table), if you mix it up too much you no longer can be described as what you are attempting to be. Also how heavily instanced will the game world be, if it's too heavily instanced/zoned I personally do not class that as persistent that's one reason I never liked AoC apart from the game being broken at the start.
I'm being a realist something that the past few MMORPG failures have taught me I'm looking forward to SWTOR I'm not going to sit there blowing smoke up peoples asses stating this game will be amazing and save MMO's when I have not seen or heard or played anything tangible directly from Bioware. I shall repeat what I said SWTOR not be everyone's cup of tea it will be a good game and that I FEEL it doesn't fall in to the category of an MMORPG i'd personally class it as a MMOAG an action/adventure game as that's all I've actually seen is combat and action until they provide more information regarding what I said above.
**Edited to remove misunderstanding**
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I really can't give a long reply, kinda busy this morning. I wasn't being aggresive, what exactly gave you that idea? I'll update this post when I get time to read everything, ok?
In that case I apologise some times you can take posts the wrong way and misunderstand the intent (i'll edit the post to reflect that), but thanks for the reply
Like I said every thing I said is the way I feel I'm not trying to state anything as fact or push anything down any ones throat, or slate Bioware or SWTOR they are just my opinions. Speaking of busy I need to get back to work 
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it's bioware it will be good.
I said that I FEEL it doesn't fit the definition of an MMORPG and I was referring to the Wikipedia definition which is this:
Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (commonly abbreviated MMORPG) is a genre of computer role-playing games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world. The term MMORPG was coined by Richard Garriott,[citation needed] the creator of Ultima Online, the game credited with popularizing the genre in 1997.[1][2]
As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a fictional character (often in a fantasy world),[3] and take control over many of that character's actions.[4] MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world, usually hosted by the game's publisher, which continues to exist and evolve while the player is away from the game. This is often reffered to being offline, or AFK (away from keyboard).
Now with the information available Bioware have been very vague on how very large numbers of players will interact in terms of PVP, PVE, Raiding, Endgame content, social interaction, crafting, trading all of which I feel a corner stone of a MMORPG which helps build the community which will ultimately decide if the game is a success or failure, you have no community you have no game. You might feel differently, this has nothing to do with mixing it up (which is good it brings something new to the table), if you mix it up too much you no longer can be described as what you are attempting to be. Also how heavily instanced will the game world be, if it's too heavily instanced I personally do not class that as persistent.
I'm being a realist something that the past few MMORPG failures have taught me I'm looking forward to SWTOR I'm not going to sit there blowing smoke up peoples asses stating this game will be amazing and save MMO's when I have not seen or heard or played anything tangible directly from Bioware. I shall repeat what I said SWTOR not be everyone's cup of tea it will be a good game and that I FEEL it doesn't fall in to the category of an MMORPG until they provide more information regarding what I said above.
**Edited to remove misunderstanding**
There is a major difference in Feeling and Being the definition. Although currently you feel it does not quite match your standards of a MMO"RPG" it still is a MMORPG, it has everything the definition said it would have. To start out, you mention number of players interaction, a few pages back Maskweasel shared this interview.
"Ten Ton Hammer: It’s also nice that you guys obviously got your message across about the importance of personal stories.
Blain Christine: It’s funny because that’s almost like a double-edged sword in a way. We’ve been telling people that we are doing story unlike any other MMO, but then people start asking things like, “Are you really doing an MMO?” And it’s hard to demo that in a live demo where we have 15 minutes to run through stuff. But when you see the outdoor areas in our demo where we’re running around Ord Mantell as the Smuggler or we’re running around Hutta outside the cantina, that’s where the world opens up and it’s not instanced content. So it is an MMO, there’s going to be other players out there and you’ll be able to have all the exploration and combat that you might expect out of an MMO."
ok So with this, it answers a few questions. It will be open world. And the fact that it is open world means you will run into players, which means more player to player interaction.
PvP/PvE. definatlly in game. PvE (not endgame but general world PvE) Is apparently going to be huge considering the different planets and creatures/humanoids you will encounter. As for PvP, at pax they let everybody know it's in the game. Not sure on the size. But with an open world, and just being the Star Wars world in general. I can expect it to be large scale. But can never be to sure.
Raiding/Endgame content, according to them (this was mentioned before they actually released the name of this MMO) will be huge. But you are right they are vague on this. Even though endgame does not make a game a MMORPG, I feel it's required, like you. So I'm mostly speaking strait from the definition, but acknowledge it's importance.
Crafting has already been announced, they are still vague, but it's there. So atleast you have something.
Trading, I'm really not sure what you mean by this. There are many forms. Are you talking players trading Items. Or player owned vendors/stores like SWG? I'm pretty sure the latter isn't making it in, as far as I know. again you can never be to sure.
Has a lot to do with mixing it up, in my opinion. The funny thing is, BioWare doesn't even call the game a MMORPG now. They now call it a SDMMORPG (Story Driven MMORPG). They want to set themselves apart from the rest. And doing this they have caught a lot of attention, both good and bad. Lots of people claim this game will not be a MMORPG, just because it focuses on story. Which in most cases you pick up a RPG game, and it's main focus is story and character development.
I have no intentions of changing the way you feel, that's BioWares job. If you feel it's not a MMORPG, thats great. I'm just going by the definition supplied, thats where we differ. I respect your feelings on the subject. Hopefully BioWare can deliver everything promised, thats the most important thing.
Hi thanks for the reply and a great post this article states how I feel and it is a good read although there are some aspects I don't agree on a majority of it is thought provoking:
internetgames.about.com/od/mmorpgs/a/whatisammog.htm
In terms of trading what I meant was that although in an MMORPG a majority of player interaction normally involves combat (PVE, PVP etc)there is no reason why it has to be limited to that and cannot include trading/negotiating be it through auction houses, player trades or a player vendor system which I think doesn't detract from a game but adds to the depth. So I was just stating that it is another form of player interaction which would be nice to have in the game and add to the feel you are actually part of a wider community in game rather then just logging on and doing a few quests with a small group of people to advance your character and logging off, you have something else to do which lets you engage with other people.
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Ah ok, I really don't know much about the trading that takes place in ToR. Maybe one of the other guys can dig something up for you, if anything has been said that is. And I'll check the link out in a bit.
Nope they should not. The game already failed and did not need a second coming.
In this interview they state you can have 20 man groups
g4tv.com/videos/41213/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-Preview/
/shrug
sounds like an MMO to me.
g4tv
yeah i'm going to believe something that comes from a network who has shows about whos boobs are bigger and whats the best looking playboy playmate or the best of internet porn
i wouldn't trust g4 with anything
/facepalm
Can't wait for this MMO to release looks fun!
So what is this game missing thats making it not a MMO? Be sure to think hard!
The need to interact with large numbers of other players.
Just being able to form a group does not make a game an MMO. Saying otherwise would be claiming that Diablo was an MMO.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
So what is this game missing thats making it not a MMO? Be sure to think hard!
The need to interact with large numbers of other players.
Just being able to form a group does not make a game an MMO. Saying otherwise would be claiming that Diablo was an MMO.
If you need a driving force to get you to interact and group, that's your problem. They already said the game would have end game raiding. Pretty sure grouping will be required. More players adds to your story. What more do you want?
So what is this game missing thats making it not a MMO? Be sure to think hard!
The need to interact with large numbers of other players.
Just being able to form a group does not make a game an MMO. Saying otherwise would be claiming that Diablo was an MMO.
yes and thats why tor isn't an mmo.
look at pre-cu swg you had 30 man groups. you had to interact with other players in order to go out and do things. there was no solo content or any of that. rather you had to go out and make friends with people to do things.
tor? you can solo your way in tor, hohum who cares.
Wait ... are you claiming that you couldn't solo through pre-CU SWG? Sorry, but I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
So what is this game missing thats making it not a MMO? Be sure to think hard!
The need to interact with large numbers of other players.
Just being able to form a group does not make a game an MMO. Saying otherwise would be claiming that Diablo was an MMO.
yes and thats why tor isn't an mmo.
look at pre-cu swg you had 30 man groups. you had to interact with other players in order to go out and do things. there was no solo content or any of that. rather you had to go out and make friends with people to do things.
tor? you can solo your way in tor, hohum who cares.
Let me highlight the most important part of his post. There was never a need to interact or group in SWG. You could do fine without talking or grouping in that game. FFXI is a game where you NEED to do both. L2Read.
So what is this game missing thats making it not a MMO? Be sure to think hard!
The need to interact with large numbers of other players.
Just being able to form a group does not make a game an MMO. Saying otherwise would be claiming that Diablo was an MMO.
yes and thats why tor isn't an mmo.
look at pre-cu swg you had 30 man groups. you had to interact with other players in order to go out and do things. there was no solo content or any of that. rather you had to go out and make friends with people to do things.
tor? you can solo your way in tor, hohum who cares.
Let me highlight the most important part of his post. There was never a need to interact or group in SWG. You could do fine without talking or grouping in that game. FFXI is a game where you NEED to do both. L2Read.
15 pages of trying to reason with nonsensical unfounded bollocks from cock ends like urself and the OP.
Who cares indeed.
So what is this game missing thats making it not a MMO? Be sure to think hard!
The need to interact with large numbers of other players.
Just being able to form a group does not make a game an MMO. Saying otherwise would be claiming that Diablo was an MMO.
yes and thats why tor isn't an mmo.
look at pre-cu swg you had 30 man groups. you had to interact with other players in order to go out and do things. there was no solo content or any of that. rather you had to go out and make friends with people to do things.
tor? you can solo your way in tor, hohum who cares.
Let me highlight the most important part of his post. There was never a need to interact or group in SWG. You could do fine without talking or grouping in that game. FFXI is a game where you NEED to do both. L2Read.
15 pages of trying to reason with nonsensical unfounded bollocks from cock ends like urself and the OP.
Who cares indeed.
What? Are you failing to read as well? He was saying ToR will be boring because you can solo, while comparing it to SWG, a game that you can also solo.
Wait ... are you claiming that you couldn't solo through pre-CU SWG? Sorry, but I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
Maybe what he's really saying is that he sucks at MMOs, including SWG. To me you are fail if you can't play an MMO outside of a group, and TBH SWG did not have 30 man groups, the max was 20.
I mean really, Tatooine hunting groups were for noobs with broken armor and crappy weapons lol.
Wait ... are you claiming that you couldn't solo through pre-CU SWG? Sorry, but I was a one man mass extinction event on Dathomir.
Maybe what he's really saying is that he sucks at MMOs, including SWG. To me you are fail if you can't play an MMO outside of a group, and TBH SWG did not have 30 man groups, the max was 20.
There is no a doubt he was probably bad at the game. If this didn't give it away, the constant crying over hardcore unlockable jedi for ToR was, you can always spot weak links when they scream for alpha classes in MMOs. I still don't get how he fails to understand SWG was not suppose to have playable jedi "at all", yet he complains that this game will be full of them.