Originally posted by Ziljianx This is pretty much they way they are treating ppl in this game atm a real Nazi type method to they way they treat you.
I swear you kids get zero history education these days. I doubt you even know what a "Nazi" is. Just a word you heard that means "bad."
Strict control of speech with heavy penalties does sound more communist than nazi/fascist/falangist imho. But history lessons should be relegated to the educational system
I was talking about the origin of the word. I also said there are other meanings associated, and just like you said: mostly because of WW2. Still, the term Nazi does NOT equal mass murderer, as many assume.
This is all what I meant above. DB
Although Mr. Webster defines a Nazi as, "A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, founded in Germany in 1919 and brought to power in 1933 under Adolf Hitler" there should not be a single person in their right mind who would argue that it does not also mean racism, fanaticism, genocide or evil. There is so much emotional baggage that goes along with the term Nazi that it would be criminal, criminal to disregard said baggage. Seriously. Only a person who likes to argue would claim that Nazi has a narrow, unemotional meaning.
How can Nazi NOT equal mass murder?! How?
Simple: it is not it's meaning.
Mass murder can be associated with this term, but someone can be a Nazi and not be a mass murderer at all.
DB
Right. And the mustache Hitler sported doesn't have any intrisic meaning but I'll be damned if anyone would sport that look after WWII (excluding Halloween of course). So maybe Nazi didn't initially mean racism, fanaticism, genocide or evil but you cannot argue that it doesn't mean that now. I just really don't understand how anyone could claim otherwise. I don't. /shrug
To many people, it does, I never questioned that. However, for some others, (like the OP most probably), it only means more like the association with the "Soup Nazi", in the sitcom Seinfeld (a harsh, aggressive dictator, who can actually be ridiculed). That is another, slangish implication.
So if someone uses the term, it does not necessarily is intented to be connected to mass-murder. There are several implications. and as most terms, it is changing, branching etc.
I'm not saying any of these implications are better or worse than the others, as it is clearly for not me to judge. I am just saying that these do exist, whether right or wrong. One thing is sure: they should be used with extreme caution, if at all!
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Thing I if I had something wrong like swearing or abuse a GM I could understand but I didnt I just wanted a straight answer to a game bug issue I had and still have . The least they could do is either warn or inform you of what you have done wrong to be muted for but they dont they just mute you then ban you from forums when you ask why .
They still have not replied to my request for help to do with the bug its like they would rather you just go away and say nothing and if you do say something you get this treatment.
with the conversion from US dollars to Aus dollars this cost me $136 for the game and 1 months subscription at this stage id be happy with a full refund so I can move on to something that works and where you are treated like a customer and not like a mongrel dog!
If you were muted it is most likely a result of you continuing to bring up a topic in the game that was disruptive or had already been addressed. Perhaps it was the tone you were using or something similar.
It sounds like you received an answer, but did not like the answer you were given and continued to press for something else. Someone told you it was a bug and I'm not sure what else you needed. A GM to come tell you when it would be fixed or the servers to shutdown so something could be changed?
My guess is that you were sending the GM direct tells, which is a no-no in most games.
I really don't like it either when people use the term fascist or nazi, because clearly they do not exactly know what they mean. I do know they are horrible terms and should never even be mentioned.. so there's agreement on this.
However, I can't ignore the fact that your post here is just a chain of assumptions. Why do you think the OP called anyone a nazi in his/her face? I think that's unrealistic.
DB
A valid question. We can't even know if the event happened, let alone how it went down. All we can really do is make assumptions based on motive and behavior patterns.
I guess the reason would be that, in a niche game like FE, you want all the subs you can get. Thus, you're not going to mute and kick somebody because they're calmly and rationally pointing out an issue with the game.
Seeing as how the nazi card was played in their very first post on this forum, I don't see it as too far a leap.
There is, of course, the possibility that they are speaking the truth and that they happened to get a high blood pressure, chain smoking GM whose mother in law just moved in. But what little evidence we have supports the contrary.
i think piivot made a new account after ragequit mmorpg.com because his last post was locked
I believe you are correct.
LOL....ya think? Pretty obvious I would say.
Piivot...give it up about the muting thing. If it bothers you this much perhaps you should take it up with FE...not making new weekly accounts to play the same tune.
I really don't like it either when people use the term fascist or nazi, because clearly they do not exactly know what they mean. I do know they are horrible terms and should never even be mentioned.. so there's agreement on this.
However, I can't ignore the fact that your post here is just a chain of assumptions. Why do you think the OP called anyone a nazi in his/her face? I think that's unrealistic.
DB
A valid question. We can't even know if the event happened, let alone how it went down. All we can really do is make assumptions based on motive and behavior patterns.
I guess the reason would be that, in a niche game like FE, you want all the subs you can get. Thus, you're not going to mute and kick somebody because they're calmly and rationally pointing out an issue with the game.
Seeing as how the nazi card was played in their very first post on this forum, I don't see it as too far a leap.
There is, of course, the possibility that they are speaking the truth and that they happened to get a high blood pressure, chain smoking GM whose mother in law just moved in. But what little evidence we have supports the contrary.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the OP was mishandled - that would contradict my experience with FE and its GM's
I also tend to agree that this was just a new post from someone who had already complained about the exact same thing, but it turned out she wasn't right at all, and then she /ragequit the forum (as well, just like the game before. Twice.)
I just don't think she (he?) actually did use the term "nazi"... in a game... against the GM... I mean, people are stupid, but there's gotta be a limit to even that
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
To many people, it does, I never questioned that. However, for some others, (like the OP most probably), it only means more like the association with the "Soup Nazi", in the sitcom Seinfeld (a harsh, aggressive dictator, who can actually be ridiculed). That is another, slangish implication.
So if someone uses the term, it does not necessarily is intented to be connected to mass-murder. There are several implications. and as most terms, it is changing, branching etc.
I'm not saying any of these implications are better or worse than the others, as it is clearly for not me to judge. I am just saying that these do exist, whether right or wrong. One thing is sure: they should be used with extreme caution, if at all!
DB
I think the big thing between "soup nazi" and in this case "GM nazi" is CONTEXT.
In one case, an intent to make people laugh by using words that you never expect to hear together, "soup nazi", or my favorite, "bagel related injuries"...
...and in another, an intent to make people think that FE GM's share social attitudes with the most evil regime in the last 100 years. (edit: or better put, to compare their experience to that of nazi victims)
I just don't think she (he?) actually did use the term "nazi"... in a game... against the GM... I mean, people are stupid, but there's gotta be a limit to even that
DB
Oh I wish I could agree with that! My 15 years of experience in IT support has taught me otherwise. Also, my many years of watching cable news...
To many people, it does, I never questioned that. However, for some others, (like the OP most probably), it only means more like the association with the "Soup Nazi", in the sitcom Seinfeld (a harsh, aggressive dictator, who can actually be ridiculed). That is another, slangish implication.
So if someone uses the term, it does not necessarily is intented to be connected to mass-murder. There are several implications. and as most terms, it is changing, branching etc.
I'm not saying any of these implications are better or worse than the others, as it is clearly for not me to judge. I am just saying that these do exist, whether right or wrong. One thing is sure: they should be used with extreme caution, if at all!
DB
I think the big thing between "soup nazi" and in this case "GM nazi" is CONTEXT.
In one case, an intent to make people laugh by using words that you never expect to hear together, "soup nazi", or my favorite, "bagel related injuries"...
...and in another, an intent to make people think that FE GM's share social attitudes with the most evil regime in the last 100 years.
I saw no attempt at humor in the OP.
I know this is a different context, and I meant to draw no comparison here.
What i meant instead, that funny uses like the Soup Nazi do actually "soften up" the term Nazi itself, thus people who use it (even if different contexts like this one) will do it because they do not feel the depth of meaning behind the original (?) use of the term. It's all I meant So I don't think we disagree here, just were not thinking of the same thing exactly
And now we're way too academic as well
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I know this is a different context, and I meant to draw no comparison here.
What i meant instead, that funny uses like the Soup Nazi do actually "soften up" the term Nazi itself, thus people who use it (even if different contexts like this one) will do it because they do not feel the depth of meaning behind the original (?) use of the term. It's all I meant So I don't think we disagree here, just were not thinking of the same thing exactly
And now we're way too academic as well
DB
I agree! We don't disagree.
Ah, message boards are the most fun when people stop arguing about the topic and start arguing about the argument! :P
Humor softens everything. That's why I like it so much. Inside and outside of humor, words like Nazi, fascism, socialism, racism get used far too often, and they lose their meaning. I think we're on the same page, there.
Sometimes the GMs can do a better job at being nice. Yesterday I got stuck in a perpetual scavenging animation. I should've just logged out and logged in, but I opened a GM ticket and was promptly killed by a GM. I wasn't given any explanation or anything. Just killed. I had to walk kind of a long way back (no mount yet). It's not a big deal, but I'd at least appreciate a "Hey, the only way to get you out of the animation is to kill you. Sorry about this!"
Godwin's Law. OP has lost this arguement. It states: "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1." The term Godwin's law can also refer to the tradition that whoever makes such a comparison is said to "lose" the debate.
The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued, that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.
hehehe.... Enough said.
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Sometimes the GMs can do a better job at being nice. Yesterday I got stuck in a perpetual scavenging animation. I should've just logged out and logged in, but I opened a GM ticket and was promptly killed by a GM. I wasn't given any explanation or anything. Just killed. I had to walk kind of a long way back (no mount yet). It's not a big deal, but I'd at least appreciate a "Hey, the only way to get you out of the animation is to kill you. Sorry about this!"
Pressing 'C' or 'U' has always gotten me out of that.. But I'm sure the GM's have happy trigger fingers after going thru the OP's ranting
Sometimes the GMs can do a better job at being nice. Yesterday I got stuck in a perpetual scavenging animation. I should've just logged out and logged in, but I opened a GM ticket and was promptly killed by a GM. I wasn't given any explanation or anything. Just killed. I had to walk kind of a long way back (no mount yet). It's not a big deal, but I'd at least appreciate a "Hey, the only way to get you out of the animation is to kill you. Sorry about this!"
You can also use 'c' for crouch to get out of it, I believe. Depends on the actual bug. That was kind of choady of the GM to do that, as they could have teleported you and such, but it could be explained by busy-ness and such. There are definately nicer GM's than others, as in all games and I wish the standard was a bit more....well, 'standard'.
Also, to the OP, if you are getting muted/banned, then it might behoove you to look at how you're trying to ask/discuss the issue. I doubt simply asking about the issue will result in this, as I get by with a lot of stuff and haven't been muted/banned yet.
Where I work, sometimes people get out of hand and start swearing and behaving inappropriately. Then they go and file a formal complaint and suddenly they can communicate without using expletivies. It's amazing! Suddenly they are not rude, abrasive, insulting....but victims who were wronged without provocation. Yeah right.
Also, as a german american, seeing the nazi term thrown around casually is really insulting. I've been called a nazi before because at work I am a stickler for details. My job demands it. I think it's really offensive, especially since my family fought the nazis in WW2.
Also, as a german american, seeing the nazi term thrown around casually is really insulting. I've been called a nazi before because at work I am a stickler for details. My job demands it. I think it's really offensive, especially since my family fought the nazis in WW2.
Oh I hear you.. My (dad's side) grandfather was in Treblinka and my (mom's side) grandfather hid shot down British bomber pilots in Norway. I just wanna beat some sense into those people throwing the 'Nazi' word around, it does envoke feelings in a number of people, especially in Europe. You never see Americans throwing around the N-word when it comes to ethnicity, but the same people have no problems using the N-word as it relates to politics. Unfortunately, many suffer from cultural relativism, ethnocentricity, and a general lack of history when it comes to this
Comments
I swear you kids get zero history education these days. I doubt you even know what a "Nazi" is. Just a word you heard that means "bad."
exactly Tman . it was ment like Soup Nazi or surf Nazi as in arogant or nasty person .
I ment no reference to the Nazi's of ww2.
I swear you kids get zero history education these days. I doubt you even know what a "Nazi" is. Just a word you heard that means "bad."
Strict control of speech with heavy penalties does sound more communist than nazi/fascist/falangist imho. But history lessons should be relegated to the educational system
Although Mr. Webster defines a Nazi as, "A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, founded in Germany in 1919 and brought to power in 1933 under Adolf Hitler" there should not be a single person in their right mind who would argue that it does not also mean racism, fanaticism, genocide or evil. There is so much emotional baggage that goes along with the term Nazi that it would be criminal, criminal to disregard said baggage. Seriously. Only a person who likes to argue would claim that Nazi has a narrow, unemotional meaning.
How can Nazi NOT equal mass murder?! How?
Simple: it is not it's meaning.
Mass murder can be associated with this term, but someone can be a Nazi and not be a mass murderer at all.
DB
Right. And the mustache Hitler sported doesn't have any intrisic meaning but I'll be damned if anyone would sport that look after WWII (excluding Halloween of course). So maybe Nazi didn't initially mean racism, fanaticism, genocide or evil but you cannot argue that it doesn't mean that now. I just really don't understand how anyone could claim otherwise. I don't. /shrug
To many people, it does, I never questioned that. However, for some others, (like the OP most probably), it only means more like the association with the "Soup Nazi", in the sitcom Seinfeld (a harsh, aggressive dictator, who can actually be ridiculed). That is another, slangish implication.
So if someone uses the term, it does not necessarily is intented to be connected to mass-murder. There are several implications. and as most terms, it is changing, branching etc.
I'm not saying any of these implications are better or worse than the others, as it is clearly for not me to judge. I am just saying that these do exist, whether right or wrong. One thing is sure: they should be used with extreme caution, if at all!
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I believe you are correct.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
If you were muted it is most likely a result of you continuing to bring up a topic in the game that was disruptive or had already been addressed. Perhaps it was the tone you were using or something similar.
It sounds like you received an answer, but did not like the answer you were given and continued to press for something else. Someone told you it was a bug and I'm not sure what else you needed. A GM to come tell you when it would be fixed or the servers to shutdown so something could be changed?
My guess is that you were sending the GM direct tells, which is a no-no in most games.
I believe you are correct.
As I said, not exactly. She completely lost face, ridiculed herself in more than one posts, to the point where she ragequit the forum.
The post was only locked after this happened
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I really don't like it either when people use the term fascist or nazi, because clearly they do not exactly know what they mean. I do know they are horrible terms and should never even be mentioned.. so there's agreement on this.
However, I can't ignore the fact that your post here is just a chain of assumptions. Why do you think the OP called anyone a nazi in his/her face? I think that's unrealistic.
DB
A valid question. We can't even know if the event happened, let alone how it went down. All we can really do is make assumptions based on motive and behavior patterns.
I guess the reason would be that, in a niche game like FE, you want all the subs you can get. Thus, you're not going to mute and kick somebody because they're calmly and rationally pointing out an issue with the game.
Seeing as how the nazi card was played in their very first post on this forum, I don't see it as too far a leap.
There is, of course, the possibility that they are speaking the truth and that they happened to get a high blood pressure, chain smoking GM whose mother in law just moved in. But what little evidence we have supports the contrary.
I believe you are correct.
LOL....ya think? Pretty obvious I would say.
Piivot...give it up about the muting thing. If it bothers you this much perhaps you should take it up with FE...not making new weekly accounts to play the same tune.
I really don't like it either when people use the term fascist or nazi, because clearly they do not exactly know what they mean. I do know they are horrible terms and should never even be mentioned.. so there's agreement on this.
However, I can't ignore the fact that your post here is just a chain of assumptions. Why do you think the OP called anyone a nazi in his/her face? I think that's unrealistic.
DB
A valid question. We can't even know if the event happened, let alone how it went down. All we can really do is make assumptions based on motive and behavior patterns.
I guess the reason would be that, in a niche game like FE, you want all the subs you can get. Thus, you're not going to mute and kick somebody because they're calmly and rationally pointing out an issue with the game.
Seeing as how the nazi card was played in their very first post on this forum, I don't see it as too far a leap.
There is, of course, the possibility that they are speaking the truth and that they happened to get a high blood pressure, chain smoking GM whose mother in law just moved in. But what little evidence we have supports the contrary.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the OP was mishandled - that would contradict my experience with FE and its GM's
I also tend to agree that this was just a new post from someone who had already complained about the exact same thing, but it turned out she wasn't right at all, and then she /ragequit the forum (as well, just like the game before. Twice.)
I just don't think she (he?) actually did use the term "nazi"... in a game... against the GM... I mean, people are stupid, but there's gotta be a limit to even that
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
To many people, it does, I never questioned that. However, for some others, (like the OP most probably), it only means more like the association with the "Soup Nazi", in the sitcom Seinfeld (a harsh, aggressive dictator, who can actually be ridiculed). That is another, slangish implication.
So if someone uses the term, it does not necessarily is intented to be connected to mass-murder. There are several implications. and as most terms, it is changing, branching etc.
I'm not saying any of these implications are better or worse than the others, as it is clearly for not me to judge. I am just saying that these do exist, whether right or wrong. One thing is sure: they should be used with extreme caution, if at all!
DB
I think the big thing between "soup nazi" and in this case "GM nazi" is CONTEXT.
In one case, an intent to make people laugh by using words that you never expect to hear together, "soup nazi", or my favorite, "bagel related injuries"...
...and in another, an intent to make people think that FE GM's share social attitudes with the most evil regime in the last 100 years. (edit: or better put, to compare their experience to that of nazi victims)
I saw no attempt at humor in the OP.
I just don't think she (he?) actually did use the term "nazi"... in a game... against the GM... I mean, people are stupid, but there's gotta be a limit to even that
DB
Oh I wish I could agree with that! My 15 years of experience in IT support has taught me otherwise. Also, my many years of watching cable news...
To many people, it does, I never questioned that. However, for some others, (like the OP most probably), it only means more like the association with the "Soup Nazi", in the sitcom Seinfeld (a harsh, aggressive dictator, who can actually be ridiculed). That is another, slangish implication.
So if someone uses the term, it does not necessarily is intented to be connected to mass-murder. There are several implications. and as most terms, it is changing, branching etc.
I'm not saying any of these implications are better or worse than the others, as it is clearly for not me to judge. I am just saying that these do exist, whether right or wrong. One thing is sure: they should be used with extreme caution, if at all!
DB
I think the big thing between "soup nazi" and in this case "GM nazi" is CONTEXT.
In one case, an intent to make people laugh by using words that you never expect to hear together, "soup nazi", or my favorite, "bagel related injuries"...
...and in another, an intent to make people think that FE GM's share social attitudes with the most evil regime in the last 100 years.
I saw no attempt at humor in the OP.
I know this is a different context, and I meant to draw no comparison here.
What i meant instead, that funny uses like the Soup Nazi do actually "soften up" the term Nazi itself, thus people who use it (even if different contexts like this one) will do it because they do not feel the depth of meaning behind the original (?) use of the term. It's all I meant
So I don't think we disagree here, just were not thinking of the same thing exactly 
And now we're way too academic as well
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I know this is a different context, and I meant to draw no comparison here.
What i meant instead, that funny uses like the Soup Nazi do actually "soften up" the term Nazi itself, thus people who use it (even if different contexts like this one) will do it because they do not feel the depth of meaning behind the original (?) use of the term. It's all I meant
So I don't think we disagree here, just were not thinking of the same thing exactly 
And now we're way too academic as well
DB
I agree! We don't disagree.
Ah, message boards are the most fun when people stop arguing about the topic and start arguing about the argument! :P
Humor softens everything. That's why I like it so much. Inside and outside of humor, words like Nazi, fascism, socialism, racism get used far too often, and they lose their meaning. I think we're on the same page, there.
Sometimes the GMs can do a better job at being nice. Yesterday I got stuck in a perpetual scavenging animation. I should've just logged out and logged in, but I opened a GM ticket and was promptly killed by a GM. I wasn't given any explanation or anything. Just killed. I had to walk kind of a long way back (no mount yet). It's not a big deal, but I'd at least appreciate a "Hey, the only way to get you out of the animation is to kill you. Sorry about this!"
hehehe.... Enough said.
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Pressing 'C' or 'U' has always gotten me out of that.. But I'm sure the GM's have happy trigger fingers after going thru the OP's ranting
You can also use 'c' for crouch to get out of it, I believe. Depends on the actual bug. That was kind of choady of the GM to do that, as they could have teleported you and such, but it could be explained by busy-ness and such. There are definately nicer GM's than others, as in all games and I wish the standard was a bit more....well, 'standard'.
Also, to the OP, if you are getting muted/banned, then it might behoove you to look at how you're trying to ask/discuss the issue. I doubt simply asking about the issue will result in this, as I get by with a lot of stuff and haven't been muted/banned yet.
Thanks for the Crouch tip.
Two pages of posts and the question has yet to be asked.
What bug did you report that got you muted and banned?
As you incredibly fail to mention this in your OP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Without knowing that what do you expect the public to say?
hehe, he was probelly one of the people swearing and spamming the help channel :P
No swearing in FE channels or you get the ban hammer!
Where I work, sometimes people get out of hand and start swearing and behaving inappropriately. Then they go and file a formal complaint and suddenly they can communicate without using expletivies. It's amazing! Suddenly they are not rude, abrasive, insulting....but victims who were wronged without provocation. Yeah right.
Also, as a german american, seeing the nazi term thrown around casually is really insulting. I've been called a nazi before because at work I am a stickler for details. My job demands it. I think it's really offensive, especially since my family fought the nazis in WW2.
Oh I hear you.. My (dad's side) grandfather was in Treblinka and my (mom's side) grandfather hid shot down British bomber pilots in Norway. I just wanna beat some sense into those people throwing the 'Nazi' word around, it does envoke feelings in a number of people, especially in Europe. You never see Americans throwing around the N-word when it comes to ethnicity, but the same people have no problems using the N-word as it relates to politics. Unfortunately, many suffer from cultural relativism, ethnocentricity, and a general lack of history when it comes to this
Words only have the meaning you attribute to them. If you're offended by words, it's your fault - not someone else's.
ok guys stop being nazi about it