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Downtime: Bring it Back or Lose it?
nate1980
Member UncommonPosts: 2,074
The Situation:
MMORPG's lack downtime. The benefit of this, is that you get more done in less time. You also do not have to wait around and watch a bar rise slowly up to 100%, which when your solo can be boring. The cons to no downtime is that there is less social interaction when grouped, and the game feels more gamey and less worldy (I made those terms up, haha).
The Proposal:
Bring back downtime. The way to do this is allow the ability to set up camps. DAoC did this eventually with campfires, where you got a small buff to recovery. WoW has this, which does the same thing. SWG literally allowed you to set up a camp, which is the best example of camps. The benefit of camps is that it allows for socializing, which would greatly increase the comradre amongst the community, building a tight community that once used to exist in MMORPG's, and STILL can exist now. When you're sitting around a campfire, with not much better to do, you end up talking with others and making friends. Another benefit of downtime is that it allows for perfect times for bio breaks or to take a bite of that sandwich ( 
). Even if you aren't grouped, a person passing by another who has a camp setup may stop by and say hello. Then again, maybe they won't. But it's more likely they will compared to when you're running past each other 5 miles an hour to get to the next quest objective. It forces players to STOP, and enjoy the PRESENT. Gamers are so focused on the future while in the game, that they never take the time to get to know the number 1 asset any game has to offer: A Community.
You Decide:
Bring back downtime, or lose it forever?
Comments
I just started playing EQ again after years of WoW, and I was sitting there in my group medding up and something strange happened. We had a conversation. Wierd, I know.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Yeah, it's an incredible and underrated game mechanic that does more good than harm by keeping it in the game. Imagine how simply getting to know each other enhances a game, extends its life, and provides a more mature community.
Need the downtime as I have housework to do!
(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Remember Rabbids cant do house chores, but they can Dance)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
Indeed.
It's kinda sad, though, that the OP touches on two things - down-time and community (the latter seeming to result from the former) - are two things that many players these days seem to want *less* of. They don't want comraderie in a game... they just want people there to help them get their "phat lewt" on that end-game raid run they're doing for the 30th time, so they can move on to the next.
They don't care who you are, what your interests are, what you think about a given topic... They only care if you're the right class and have the optimal character build to help make sure they get their newest 'purple', so they can move on to getting the next one. Beyond that, they couldn't care less who's on the controlling side of that character. Many new MMOs have become *very* anti-social and the gameplay becoming more solo-friendly, with less down-time and a faster pace has only helped that happen.
Far and away, of all the MMOs I've played, the more down-time there was or, otherwise, the slower the pace of the game overall, the better communities they had. Every time. Without exception. If the game required grouping from early on (e.g. FFXI), or a lot of player interaction even outside of grouping (e.g. Lineage 2), then the community developed very early on and only grew larger and stronger as time went on.
It's something I miss a lot about MMOs and that I really hope some developers/designers out there still see the value in nurturing. I think Square-Enix will maintain that in FFXIV. They see how strong the community in FFXI is - it's one of the more common reasons people come back, aside from the game itself being unique in the genre these days - and, I'm confident, they'll work to nurture it in XIV as well (fingers crossed).
Aside from the social aspects, downtime facilitates other things...
- cigarette/food/bathroom breaks
- time re-supply for reagents, arrows, etc.
- stretch the legs, etc.
- rest your eyes for a few having stared at the monitor non-stop for an hour or more straight
and so on...
One important thing that, I think, serves as the foundation of all of that, though, is the idea that MMORPGs were conceived as long-term "online hobbies" that could persist, moreso than just short-term "games" that would be "finished" and then left behind to move on to the next. They've leaned more toward the "game" side in recent years and I think that's why we haven't seen as much community... you can't build community when players are ripping through the content and moving on to the next game so quickly.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Yeah I remember the good old days of FFXI that game had downtime 4sho. Heck parties I was in we would have conversations in mid battle and we'd still kick ass. We were all typing too, thats why I really didn't like most other games at first cuz it was so hard to fight and type.
But here is a way to bring back that social feeling back in games. Use Ventrillo or Teamspeak, I know there is people out there saying only 1337 WoW kiddies use vent but when playing Fallen Earth you have to stop fighting just to type. My cousin and I have been using it and man does it bring back memories of FFXI. It makes grouping fun again and a hell of a lot easier to tell people you need help cuz you got aggro.
Using Vent you get the best of both worlds, talking for all you chataholics out there and constant action for all the ADHD kiddies out there.
It's an interesting question. Downtime does seem to play some part in group socialization, I wonder if the lack of downtime is at all associated with easily getting "burned out" from playing.
"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."
Wax on, wax off. Wax on, wax off. Rest, repeat. Grinding and downtime. They are the lessons that teach very valuable lessons. Risk versus reward. All of these things promote a wholeness of game understanding, forcing the gamer to become a better gamer, and in many cases, a better person in-game as well. Community is undeniably something that forms around downtime. Knowledge of game is undeniably something that forms around grinding. Put them together and what do you get? Captain Planet! (sorry, I don't know why I found that funny)
Current titles want to offer gamers more and more opportunity with less and less hassle. That hassle needs to be experienced. 'Necessary evils' I do believe they are called. 5:1 activity:downtime wouldn't be a bad ratio to work with, just to throw some numbers out there. Players need to learn the way results are achieved, rather than being spoon-fed with results.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
I don't like voice communication, although I admit it makes emergency situations a lot more manageable. I don't like it, because people talk over each other, have annoying voices or mannerisms, and it's not always easy to hear one person, especially over the ingame music and sounds.
With chat, people can scroll up to read what they missed. Typing takes longer, so people talk over each other less. No annoying voices or mannerisms, except for 1337 speak.
Why? Just wondering. I've been playing online games pretty much since there were online games, and I don't see the point - unless you want to game that way. They're games, not life lessons that you can only learn by suffering through the "bad" stuff. Not that I think those things were necessarily bad. They were fun at the time, although sometimes frustrating. It's just that if you don't want to bother with them, you don't have to anymore. I don't need games to teach me lessons and I don't have to play the bits that are a hassle to appreciate them. Games are improving and evolving, in my opinion, and the less down time, the better. If you want the grindy bits, they still exist in games. Sorry, no offense, but I just can't wrap my head around your point. (err... I don't mean that in a pervy way!
)
MMOs severely lack downtime, but the problem with it is that the ones that do give you downtime make you feel like you're wasting it.
Back in the old days, I remember not caring about getting max level. Max level was no different than the level I was at, it didn't really matter in PVP or PVE, max level was basically the same as the intermediate levels. And that's what good about MMOs, games need more of this.
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Why? Just wondering. I've been playing online games pretty much since there were online games, and I don't see the point - unless you want to game that way. They're games, not life lessons that you can only learn by suffering through the "bad" stuff. Not that I think those things were necessarily bad. They were fun at the time, although sometimes frustrating. It's just that if you don't want to bother with them, you don't have to anymore. I don't need games to teach me lessons and I don't have to play the bits that are a hassle to appreciate them. Games are improving and evolving, in my opinion, and the less down time, the better. If you want the grindy bits, they still exist in games. Sorry, no offense, but I just can't wrap my head around your point. (err... I don't mean that in a pervy way!
)
I admit, at first, I shared your opinion Signe. I remember playing FFXI (funny how so many people have referred to it in this thread) and getting so annoyed that I would constantly need to take a break after each fight to recover hp and mp cuz I was a black mage.
But then I also remember how, during that time, I would take a good look around (as in pan the camera 360 degrees) and notice other people either running solo or in a group or even fighting or fishing. This was a world, where people other than me actually existed and did things.
I remember during some resting with a group after taking down a massive camel thing, we would strategize how to defeat the next one with less casualties. This is a really interesting point you make OP and it's nice that you noticed something I, and I'm guessing many others have clearly missed.
So I think the solution is something along the lines of what the OP and Signe suggested. The grindy bits are annoying and sort of a roadblock to fun for many, but if a game is going to call itself an MMORPG, it should be more than just an online single player game.
Which FF Character Are You?
Is this a joke?
I play games to play games, not to sit around doing nothing.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think this is why we are seeing more skill based games rather than level based now. But I'm not sure if that is a good solution, because a skill based game is really just a series of "levels", e.g. having being a 10 in swordmanship. People are still going to focus on getting that skill to max and do what they can to help themselves achieve this goal - so it becomes just a bunch of people playing a single player game at the same time, not an MMO.
I think having a game that is just a free play sort of thing, where you go around and actually experience things and learn from others instead of having an experience bar to gauge what you learned with numbers, will lead to the same outcome that the OP thinks downtime will cause.
A community would form in the exchange of ideas, no matter how fast or slow paced the actual action was.
One situation would be having unique skills or abilities that can be taught to other people. It would take some time to teach, and this would take place of the camp setting that some mentioned earlier. In this way, the action can still be quick paced, but if one is to become more effective in battle, he/she will need to take time to learn from others.
Which FF Character Are You?
Lose it.
I want a fun, difficult and action packed fight where I succeed or fail by my own choices, and then I want a rapid recovery so that I can do it again.
Sitting around for 5+ minutes to regenerate after a fight does not appeal to me at all.
I type fast and have VOIP software. I can have a conversation between or even during fights.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I like it, i say bring it back!
Socializing has always been a component of MMORPG's. Since you're playing MMORPG's, wouldn't it stand to reason that socializing during downtime IS playing the game? If you don't force people to socialize, they just won't. Path of least resistance. There are exceptions to this rule, because some people stand around and talk or duel, or whatever anyways, but the vast majority will mind their own business and will rarely stop and talk with each other. Socializing is part of online play, at least it is in my opinion.
This
Hell no to downtime.
The amazing thing about this is that by removing downtime, you can proceed at precisely the pace you want. If you think it's important to strategize or chat between each battle, then more power to you. The mechanics are already in the game for you to do this. Simply stop.
The inverse is not true. If I am soloing, or playing with a group on a clock, we can't bypass dev imposed downtime. I don't want to sit and stare at a bar refreshing, I want to play the game.
So your playstyle negatively impacts a lot of people while the inverse is not true.
Keep downtime out of games. If you want to RP, then you can do so on your time, but don't make me wait when I either don't want to or can't socialize.
110% agree.
Second. There's a difference between socializing and "time sink". I played EQ shortly after release up to shortly after Kunark. 20 minute boat rides, 5-10 minutes of downtime standing/medding in one spot after 1-2 minute fights killing the same mobs for hours at a time. The "socializing" part of massive camping sessions came from sheer boredom.
I should know, as a Cleric for half my characters levels, staring at the goddamned spellbook because for some reason you weren't allowed to see the world (probably to add to the immersion of realism waiting for mobs to magically appear out of thin air to kill them again) the only thing you COULD do was see/use the chat bar and hope you didn't see "pop/add or aggro", though you became almost ninja-like with your hearing and could tell the oblivious others that a mob appeared without seeing the screen. *note: worst run on sentence I've ever created, I know*
I was perfectly capable of socializing in WoW also. Whether it was in a PUG, guildchat, friends, or general chat... while I was ENJOYING playing a game.
I guess what it all boils down to... is if you have absolutely NOTHING better to do with your time and no RL obligations... have at it, you're entitled to pay $15 for a 1/4 game 3/4 yahoo! chat program.
*Note: If text is your bread and butter, go research and check out ToriMUD (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TorilMUD)
DDO does a nifty thing regarding downtime... they got rid of it. So depending on how the game functions, it's not really a "requirement" for a MMO.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
waiting 2h to get 25 kids around and then 2h of chuck norris/anal [link talent] jokes so u can finaly see 3 ppl happy isnt enought downtime?
In big grouping games its impossible, MAY work in smal group game WITH a small comunity. bb
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I don't think it is a good idea to put needless idle time inbetwen activities in the hope that it somehow stimulates conversation.
I would rather games add elements into the gameplay that are worth talking about, stopping to dicuss strategies and things of that nature.
Give people an interesting topic and they will talk about it. Give people emtpy time that needs to be filled with something and the results are unpredictable.
I think the problem with this particular observation is that the audience of MMO games is now different.
MMO Gamers used to appreciate a certain amount of downtime, though EQ at one time had a severe amount of it that was a disservice to the game, so getting the "correct" amount of downtime into a game is a tricky balancing act in it's own right.
In the Pre-WoW MMO gamespace the community was very important, but these were players that had often migrated from D&D, AD&D, Diku MUDS etc and they were from the background of what were essentially social activities framed by the gaming rules.
The "new" MMO audience is made up of a much more goal oriented, adrenaline rush seeking arcade game playing demographic, & we are in fact probably now outnumbered in the MMO gamespace by "arcade" style gamers, fans of fast paced RTS, FPS etc.
This newer audience enjoys the faster pace , lower socialisation of recent games, so the games themselves need to evolve a way to appeal to both mindsets, or, alter them to a new paradigm.
Games need to think on the socialisation of their games & develop ways to foster a better, more tightly connected community because MMO's really thrive & become long-lived when that is nourished. Building a community is as important as the building of the game itself I think.
But you do highlight at least 1 mechanic that lends itself to community building, if done in a sensitive way.
Down time is a mechanic that is the bane of the soloer (notice their replies in this thread) and the grouper's friend.
Sure, you can pause in a game if you want, but if there isn't enforced downtime a group won't pause, it will work feverishly to go through the content as quickly as possible, with little chance to really enjoy the encounter.
Besides, downtime was more than a timesink, it had a strategic element as well. Good players learned to complete fights as effiicently as possible in order to reduce downtime. It also permitted certain classes to have buffs that reduced downtime making them desireable to group with (ie. Minstels in DAOC)
Again, the solo crowd has always despised the mechnanic, but for those of us who understand (and want its benefits) I hope theres some games coming out that support the it.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Agree with Kyleran. I solo/group about 50/50 and I'm a fan of downtime. It has been a catalyst that has launched a couple of good friendships I've had via online gaming. That to me is just as an important part of my fun than the game's mechanics.
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