Zorndorf u are back. Nice to see u are still around . Another constructive , inspiring post from Zorndorf. /applause Quick question did u ever play aion , i am just curious. just a quick edit to add something. Do u copy paste that text , i think it is the same in various posts.
I played Aion,there is nothing there for a PVE player to warrant jumping from any game to join AION.
No it is not utter garbage,but it is not that good either,2 races is a MAJOR cop out on completing a better game.This tells me the game is not polished,they chose in fact to just deliver what they could pan off as a playable game,sort of like selling a car without the paint job.Obviously it would be hard to polish a car with no paint job.
The two linear starts again shows the game was rushed out,the lack of water physics ,once again rushed not polished.BTW water physics is already in the game engine,the fact they chose to not put any actors into play,shows just how lazy and care free they were in "trying " to achieve polish.
As far as i am concerned omitting and not taking a game to where it SHOULD have been, is not polishing it,it is a cheap cop out,one i would not support.Even if i or anyone else were to put that lame design aside,what the game offers after that is still very average,the same thing you get from any other game.
If AION is your first MMO,then i guess it would be as good as any to join,but if you are playing another game,don't bother jumping ship for Aion,unless you get bored easily and like to game hop for no other reason.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
1-35 is weak that is not a grind at all you ou can easily hit 1-35 in a 10 days infact i seen someone do it. 35 + Becomes a grind and ill be honest it is slow right now, but it will imrpove when 1.5.1 comes out and quest XP for 36 + quest are great increased basically tripleing the amount of xp from most non campaign 36 + quest. This patch is slated to go live in November and hopefully it will help people out. On another note the grind isnt as bad as some hype it to be. At lv 39 solo grinding it took me 15 hrs of gameplay to level and this was with a cleric not a sorc or ranger or assasin. If you can do more then 1 level in 24 hrs played that is not something that is hard to me at all. The problem is all you carbears wanna group up and do stupid ass quest or FT or other instances that drop gold items but give you SHIT XP. Go solo you will be amazed at the xp rate.
Please come back and speak to me when you are 47, pushing to 48. Try 24 hours... nonstop play on a bot, just to get over half way.
Currently your opinion matters none in this discussion as once again, someone is speaking about something when they aren't there yet.
To be fair, the levelling pace takes roughly the same amount of time that other MMOs do. Beyond that, it's up to the individual to decide whether the levelling paths provided are interesting or a "grind".
Wait a second! - I know people (namely two close friends) who play an average of 3-5 hours per day and have started when the game launched 6 weeks ago. They have hit level 39 and 38 as of yesterday.
I don't know about your specification of 'roughly' or 'other MMO'; but compared to western standards it takes multiple times longer while not providing nearly as many quests as necessary to not grind.
Even on EQ2, which is a little on the chewing gum side of leveling, I'd cut a damage dealer to max level in about 4, 5 weeks with an 4 hour/day average.
If I start one on LotRO (which is - granted - one of the faster ones) I'll max him in 3 weeks...
M
EDIT: Oh yea, and I KNOW it's shorter than any other asia-grinder. Which essentially does not matter, I don't do grinders and Aion proclaimed it wasn't a grinder. Don't lie to me Aion, you're a filthy little korean grinder *points finger*
Grinder is a very subjective statement and also relative. Relative to Lineage 2 then Aion is not a grinder but compared to ez-mode typical western MMORPGs it is.
Besides, I dont see the big difference between grinding 100k mobs or doing 1000 quests which each requires you to kill 50 mobs.
Sure you kill less mobs with quests but it is has other tedious stages like go from point X to point Y and kill 10 mobs and then come back to NPC and then go to another spot X and Y and collect 5 fruits or whatever.
I mean quests dont make any sense in a persistent world-sharing MMO anyway so I dont see how it adds any experience by having a ton of single player type quests that does not affect the world as whole anyway.
No no, you don't get it. I don't want to bash grinders. Grinders are fine, korean people like grinders, some western people like grinders, good for you.
I just want games to be announced right. The original discussion was: How is Aion-> a not-definable number of people are leaving -> why is that? -> maybe because they weren't honest in the first place. They should've said 'We're gonna release a grinder'. Instead they said something like 'yea you know we have Aion in Korea and we revamped it to fit western standards and now it's no grinder at all'.... .. which was a lie, and lies don't pay off.
M
You don't get it.... define "grind"? Its relative...
It isn't a grinder... a grinder is L2.... A grinder takes a YEAR to get to max level - no matter how many hours the person plays every day.
There's already 350+ people at 50 in Aion... how is that a grinder? If this was a REAL grinder these people wouldn't be past 35... seriously.... Im so tired of this argument - if you think its a grinder then DONT PLAY IT....
Can you level to 50 in a few weeks? No - it takes about 300 hours played - give or take... casuals won't hit level cap until 4-5 months of play time... that's fine. It was like that in EQ1. In FACT - it was pretty much like that in Vanilla WoW too. About a month after release, people were hitting level cap. The same in Aion....
I don't even want to touch the subject of "these 50's are all bots" because its complete rubbish. Most all the 50's right now are real players - I'm sure some are bots too... but majority are just hardcore players who burn through the game ASAP and then bitch there's nothing to do at 50.
Its impossible to please some peop
You really are missing the point arn't you? You really think the majority of us consider this a grinder due to the amount of time needed to get to cap? Which is exactly why you lost the arguement before you even started, your comphrension of the issue is nill.
It's a grinder :
1. You must do the same instances/elite area over and over for group exp. I am not even going to mention the drop rates for gear inside the instances, do about five minutes of research on the subject, 100+ times for a statistical drop IS. A. GRIND.
2. In order to increase you experience in the best possible way, you must fight solo... nonstop on the same mobs in one zone. One location is where you will/should be killing mobs for 60-80 hours ( at the least ). Sounds like a grind, looks like a grind, ITS. A. GRIND.
3. Quests dry up at 37, every level after that you recieve a handful... which only ever amount to somewhere between 5-15% of the experience required to level. You get to pick from the choices above me to finish that level.. which means, once again : ITS. A. GRIND.
Whats the diffrence between this and any other Western MMO? How well the grind is disguised... Period. A game classified as a grinder is typically one whos leveling curve is poorly developed, lacks content, or is massively repetitive in nature. You are not "hardcore" for enjoying a grinder, I am not "WoWish" for detesting it... its a diffrent mindset completely; I've allready spent 10 years in MMO's with the mindset " If I work now, I can have fun with it later", I and many others are past that.. we have "Matured". I want fun... from level 1 to level 100, if you can't provide that then I will not pay you my money.
Aion is not a "bad" game, its just not enjoyable for me... while you have just as much right to praise it, I will excerise my right to harp on its failings.
Aion is not a bad game, its just a grinder. The PvP is a joke too btw.. but thats for a diffrent thread. Guess I am just impossible to please though, right?
Actually yes, you're one of those people Im talking about. I don't think for a second grind has ANYTHING to do with skill or how long it takes to get to level cap.... What YOU don't understand is the game doesn't start at max level like it does in many other MMOs....
1) I dont need to research - I've done instances in Aion... yes - they don't always drop... Did you notice in the patch notes for 1.5.1 that they are indeed addressing this? They are increasing boss drop rates... They realize it's an issue and most westerns don't like going through the instance and not getting a drop from the boss. Personally I don't care as much as most people do but this will be a nice fix for many people.
2) Blantant bullshit - I don't even feel like commenting on this. I NEVER have to stay in one spot and grind for 80 hours. Exaggerate much? If you're going to hate the game, at least do so with REAL issues (Siege crashing, Bots, etc)
3) Agreed - they need more content/quests past 37. Completely agree.... again, if you read the patch notes, you would know that they are increasing the XP rewards from quests by a large margin. Quests that used to give a few hundred k will now give closer to a million XP...
So you see, if you spent "5 minutes of research" you would know that your primary problems are being addressed. But because the game wasn't launched with as many quests as Warcraft, then the game is nothing but a Korean grinder... Sorry - not the case no matter how bad you want it to be. Give them time and the game will flourish... even your precious WoW didn't have the content it does currently at launch...
Well maybe I've played more back in the WoW days, still I'm pretty sure about reaching the cap (60 at that time) under a month and without actually grinding on anything. There were, even at this early stage, lots of quests to do in any endgame zone (back then plaguelands, azshara, some more)...
... well, still the point is 'being honest about being a grinder' imo
Well maybe I've played more back in the WoW days, still I'm pretty sure about reaching the cap (60 at that time) under a month and without actually grinding on anything. There were, even at this early stage, lots of quests to do in any endgame zone (back then plaguelands, azshara, some more)... ... well, still the point is 'being honest about being a grinder' imo
LOL...this is highly laughable that you keep saying this MMO is a grinder when it's not. It may be your opinion that it is and your entitled to it, but still laughable that you find it so.
Well maybe I've played more back in the WoW days, still I'm pretty sure about reaching the cap (60 at that time) under a month and without actually grinding on anything. There were, even at this early stage, lots of quests to do in any endgame zone (back then plaguelands, azshara, some more)... ... well, still the point is 'being honest about being a grinder' imo
Wow had more quests than Aion - for sure...
but the /played time was still 8-10 days... Aion is closer to 12 days played...
So really.. that isn't a huge difference. So - by your logic - Vanilla WoW was a "non-Asian" grinder...
Well maybe I've played more back in the WoW days, still I'm pretty sure about reaching the cap (60 at that time) under a month and without actually grinding on anything. There were, even at this early stage, lots of quests to do in any endgame zone (back then plaguelands, azshara, some more)... ... well, still the point is 'being honest about being a grinder' imo
Wow had more quests than Aion - for sure...
but the /played time was still 8-10 days... Aion is closer to 12 days played...
So really.. that isn't a huge difference. So - by your logic - Vanilla WoW was a "non-Asian" grinder...
Just sayin
Vanilla WoW was not half the game WoW is now, and frankly pretty rubbish, so if you like Aion I'd rather avoid the comparison ;P
The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.
Well maybe I've played more back in the WoW days, still I'm pretty sure about reaching the cap (60 at that time) under a month and without actually grinding on anything. There were, even at this early stage, lots of quests to do in any endgame zone (back then plaguelands, azshara, some more)... ... well, still the point is 'being honest about being a grinder' imo
Wow had more quests than Aion - for sure...
but the /played time was still 8-10 days... Aion is closer to 12 days played...
So really.. that isn't a huge difference. So - by your logic - Vanilla WoW was a "non-Asian" grinder...
Just sayin
Vanilla WoW was not half the game WoW is now, and frankly pretty rubbish, so if you like Aion I'd rather avoid the comparison ;P
Im just saying that WoW has come a long ways... as Aion will also come a long ways.
WoW was far from perfect when it was first released - and Aion is far from perfect right now....
That's all Im saying - be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day... Aion has serious potential, just like WoW did back in those days...
That said - we can agree that WoW is FAR different than WoW is today (thanks for helping me with my point)
No no, you don't get it. I don't want to bash grinders. Grinders are fine, korean people like grinders, some western people like grinders, good for you.
I just want games to be announced right. The original discussion was: How is Aion-> a not-definable number of people are leaving -> why is that? -> maybe because they weren't honest in the first place. They should've said 'We're gonna release a grinder'. Instead they said something like 'yea you know we have Aion in Korea and we revamped it to fit western standards and now it's no grinder at all'.... .. which was a lie, and lies don't pay off.
M
Oh. Then I agree with you. Devs should be upfront about what they are. For example they could have said that Aion is a grinder judged by western MMOs standard but it is much less of a grinder than your typical asian MMOS such as FF XI and Lineage 2.
However the therm 'grinder' is usually a negative one. So obviously a gaming dev company will not label their own game using a negative therm. Less quest focused maybe would be a better therm
Well maybe I've played more back in the WoW days, still I'm pretty sure about reaching the cap (60 at that time) under a month and without actually grinding on anything. There were, even at this early stage, lots of quests to do in any endgame zone (back then plaguelands, azshara, some more)... ... well, still the point is 'being honest about being a grinder' imo
Wow had more quests than Aion - for sure...
but the /played time was still 8-10 days... Aion is closer to 12 days played...
So really.. that isn't a huge difference. So - by your logic - Vanilla WoW was a "non-Asian" grinder...
Just sayin
Why is it that everyone continues to look at played time. It's not that Aion is 12 days played, it's that the fun goes away quickly during those 12 days. You can make the leveling experience better if it doesn't 'feel' like a grind.
WoW leveling (vanilla at least) was more enjoyable because of the way the quests were laid out and what you were doing during the quests. Go look up archived threads circa 2004-2005 and the biggest knock on WoW wasn't the leveling, it was the end game.
Well maybe I've played more back in the WoW days, still I'm pretty sure about reaching the cap (60 at that time) under a month and without actually grinding on anything. There were, even at this early stage, lots of quests to do in any endgame zone (back then plaguelands, azshara, some more)... ... well, still the point is 'being honest about being a grinder' imo
Wow had more quests than Aion - for sure...
but the /played time was still 8-10 days... Aion is closer to 12 days played...
So really.. that isn't a huge difference. So - by your logic - Vanilla WoW was a "non-Asian" grinder...
Just sayin
Why is it that everyone continues to look at played time. It's not that Aion is 12 days played, it's that the fun goes away quickly during those 12 days. You can make the leveling experience better if it doesn't 'feel' like a grind.
WoW leveling (vanilla at least) was more enjoyable because of the way the quests were laid out and what you were doing during the quests. Go look up archived threads circa 2004-2005 and the biggest knock on WoW wasn't the leveling, it was the end game.
I don't need to check anything - I played WoW in that time.....
I know what the problem with WoW was at that time and no - people didn't complain at leveling... because honestly it was a different type of MMO player compared to today. They were coming from EQ1 and going to WoW where they were used to leveling up and grinding... they also found it easy (like most of them find Aion easy now to be honest) and they complained because ... as you said... when they got to end game they had ONE instance... ONE..... It was "gear up for Molten Core" - that's what you did. You wasted time and money getting fire resist gear because if not - Rags would wreck your face in that instance...
Why do you think WoW changed their leveling curve? A lot of the old school vets found WoW too easy, while "others" found it too hard and too time consuming to level. So they completely mashed the XP curve so that you can level to max in a few weeks to give the casuals what they want.... now - WoW has a COMPLETELY different community. Almost everyone I know who played in Beta and during its Vanilla days have long since gone on to other things..
Its funny... the sky was falling in the WoW forums back then too - just like it is in Aion right now. lol?
If I didn t feel like I was on a one way track in Aion, I might enjoy it. If I didn t feel like I was in a box while on those tracks I might enjoy it. If I didn t feel like I was in a kiddy land while I was playing it I might enjoy it. I could go on and on, but to me Aion was one of the worst experiences I ve had in a MMO in years. I didn t even get into the Major issues of the game. If I spend $50 on a game and in a week or 2 don t want to log in, I don t really care for the loss, as it was my poor judgement and want for a new MMO experience. I will not buy another MMO till I ve tried it or know people that have and I can trust their judgement. Well until FFXIV comes out that is.
If I didn t feel like I was on a one way track in Aion, I might enjoy it. If I didn t feel like I was in a box while on those tracks I might enjoy it. If I didn t feel like I was in a kiddy land while I was playing it I might enjoy it. I could go on and on, but to me Aion was one of the worst experiences I ve had in a MMO in years. I didn t even get into the Major issues of the game. If I spend $50 on a game and in a week or 2 don t want to log in, I don t really care for the loss, as it was my poor judgement and want for a new MMO experience. I will not buy another MMO till I ve tried it or know people that have and I can trust their judgement. Well until FFXIV comes out that is.
Coming from the guy who complains there's no quests but won't walk 50 steps outside a town to get more?
Depends on the way you play and how much content you're willing to skip. In LOTRO's case I've been playing for about 8 months and haven't reached max level yet. The thing is, I didn't care about the levelling part, all I wanted was to experience the world. So I was content at doing grey quest chain lines for the sake of following the storytelling. I'm partially doing the same thing with Aion. At this point in time I'll take a big break in order to experience Dragon Age Origin. I did the same with Risen. I'm in no hurry and I still find the pace tolerable. As I said, it's up to the individual, their priorities and the way they game.
Exactly, these folks claiming Aion is a grind is almost laughable...go play WoW or LOTRO if you want to level quick and easy, going braindead in the process.
blah..blah..blah..dont people have better things to do then whine about a video game they don't enjoy? lol
It just feels to me that the people that hate on games in these forums are trying real hard to convince the people that like them into hating them too. Ok, you dont like Aion, we get it. Is it really that important to shove your feelings in people's faces? Is it really that important to you to try and make us think "hmm hes right the game is shit, im quitting"? people will play whatever they like, and there is nothing you can do about it. Flaming games you dont play is just childish. you dont like it, dont play it and move on. its just pathetic imo.
Yup, you would think that these peeps play video games way too much and likely have no social life...thats just a guess though.
Just like in the WoW forum, all of the incessant trolling and hating indicates a decent MMO. There is no problem finding a group for me, no problem finding a fight in PvP, and no problem finding quests or something to do up until level 30 so far. I am guessing there will still be plenty to do later on as well. The training wheels come off after 25 and you can go to many places in the Abyss, enemy territory, and your own territory. I would only criticize that level 25 is too long of a wait to get into fortress battles and other objectives.
Other than that I would say this is a decent game. I would hardly call this game a grinder and you can level fairly quickly. More and more people are reaching cap after just two months, however some people are skipping quests which not only makes you lose out on titles, but also other quests for valuable items. The servers in NA are strong and populated, even after free month time is up.
I am not sure how it will fare against TOR or FFXIV next year however.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage Follower Of Silvanus
Just like in the WoW forum, all of the incessant trolling and hating indicates a decent MMO. There is no problem finding a group for me, no problem finding a fight in PvP, and no problem finding quests or something to do up until level 30 so far. I am guessing there will still be plenty to do later on as well. The training wheels come off after 25 and you can go to many places in the Abyss, enemy territory, and your own territory. I would only criticize that level 25 is too long of a wait to get into fortress battles and other objectives. Other than that I would say this is a decent game. I would hardly call this game a grinder and you can level fairly quickly. More and more people are reaching cap after just two months, however some people are skipping quests which not only makes you lose out on titles, but also other quests for valuable items. The servers in NA are strong and populated, even after free month time is up. I am not sure how it will fare against TOR or FFXIV next year however.
My feelings as well - and I agree.. they really should open up the abyss/PVP at lvl 20.. it would make so much of a difference.
The biggest boring/grinding part so far for me was lvl 20-22. Quests weren't accessable and I had to grind about half a level in order to get access to the quests I needed. Since then though - I haven't looked back and my quest log is full
I agree with everything else said tho Including the last line... time will surely tell
If I didn t feel like I was on a one way track in Aion, I might enjoy it. If I didn t feel like I was in a box while on those tracks I might enjoy it. If I didn t feel like I was in a kiddy land while I was playing it I might enjoy it. I could go on and on, but to me Aion was one of the worst experiences I ve had in a MMO in years. I didn t even get into the Major issues of the game. If I spend $50 on a game and in a week or 2 don t want to log in, I don t really care for the loss, as it was my poor judgement and want for a new MMO experience. I will not buy another MMO till I ve tried it or know people that have and I can trust their judgement. Well until FFXIV comes out that is.
Coming from the guy who complains there's no quests but won't walk 50 steps outside a town to get more?
There is a lack of quests yes. I could walk 50 steps outside a town to get more, yes, but the game didn t do it for me so why should I continue to play it. What I said is how I feel, if you don t like it, ignore it. What you have to understand is, because you like the game doesn t mean I and many more wont. The bottom line is the game was a big waste of time for alot of people and they re upset they wasted their time and money. The game is shallow, and boring. That is my opinion and it isn t going to change, unless something magical happens.
Aion is more hardcore than some people are used to, but it isn't a grinder.
Almost all of the content past 35 is group content. People who pretend group content doesn't exist will have to grind. People who find groups and play together will end up like me, level 47 (two bars to 48) without ever 'grinding' a single damn mob.
Servers are full at peak times, game is full and alive, and most of my complaints about the game are incredibly minor (and even then many are being addressed already). CS is being improved, bots are getting banned (I wish they would get banned faster, but it's incredibly satisfying seeing them disappear all the same), solo quests past 35 are getting an experience boost to make them line up more with the increased experience demand (you'll still have to group some to level -- deal with it -- if you don't like that Aion isn't for you), gold spam is nearly nonexistant (now they just set up shops in major hubs advertising their websites, which I can happily note get banned daily) and the client crash is being addressed.
In short, I'm sick of seeing the horseshit constantly posted on these forums about this game by people who haven't got a clue.
If I didn t feel like I was on a one way track in Aion, I might enjoy it. If I didn t feel like I was in a box while on those tracks I might enjoy it. If I didn t feel like I was in a kiddy land while I was playing it I might enjoy it. I could go on and on, but to me Aion was one of the worst experiences I ve had in a MMO in years. I didn t even get into the Major issues of the game. If I spend $50 on a game and in a week or 2 don t want to log in, I don t really care for the loss, as it was my poor judgement and want for a new MMO experience. I will not buy another MMO till I ve tried it or know people that have and I can trust their judgement. Well until FFXIV comes out that is.
Coming from the guy who complains there's no quests but won't walk 50 steps outside a town to get more?
There is a lack of quests yes. I could walk 50 steps outside a town to get more, yes, but the game didn t do it for me so why should I continue to play it. What I said is how I feel, if you don t like it, ignore it. What you have to understand is, because you like the game doesn t mean I and many more wont. The bottom line is the game was a big waste of time for alot of people and they re upset they wasted their time and money. The game is shallow, and boring. That is my opinion and it isn t going to change, unless something magical happens.
At least you put "in your opinion" as for sure.. Aion isn't for everyone...
but dont say its linear when there are plenty of quests - especially 1-30... from 35+ it gets pretty rough.. but that's not what we are talking about
Aion is more hardcore than some people are used to, but it isn't a grinder.
Almost all of the content past 35 is group content. People who pretend group content doesn't exist will have to grind. People who find groups and play together will end up like me, level 47 (two bars to 48) without ever 'grinding' a single damn mob.
Servers are full at peak times, game is full and alive, and most of my complaints about the game are incredibly minor (and even then many are being addressed already). CS is being improved, bots are getting banned (I wish they would get banned faster, but it's incredibly satisfying seeing them disappear all the same), solo quests past 35 are getting an experience boost to make them line up more with the increased experience demand (you'll still have to group some to level -- deal with it -- if you don't like that Aion isn't for you), gold spam is nearly nonexistant (now they just set up shops in major hubs advertising their websites, which I can happily note get banned daily) and the client crash is being addressed.
In short, I'm sick of seeing the horseshit constantly posted on these forums about this game by people who haven't got a clue.
Aion keeps succeeding. You mad?
Tykero - I you. Haven't seen you post before but a very welcomed post indeed
Just beware... many will flame you for this - and ask for your Char link to "prove" you are the level you say (when sadly most of them haven't even level'ed past 15)... just giving fair warning - the MMORPG community is not very happy when things don't go their way and the game isn't 100% the way THEY expected it to be.
If I didn t feel like I was on a one way track in Aion, I might enjoy it. If I didn t feel like I was in a box while on those tracks I might enjoy it. If I didn t feel like I was in a kiddy land while I was playing it I might enjoy it. I could go on and on, but to me Aion was one of the worst experiences I ve had in a MMO in years. I didn t even get into the Major issues of the game. If I spend $50 on a game and in a week or 2 don t want to log in, I don t really care for the loss, as it was my poor judgement and want for a new MMO experience. I will not buy another MMO till I ve tried it or know people that have and I can trust their judgement. Well until FFXIV comes out that is.
Coming from the guy who complains there's no quests but won't walk 50 steps outside a town to get more?
There is a lack of quests yes. I could walk 50 steps outside a town to get more, yes, but the game didn t do it for me so why should I continue to play it. What I said is how I feel, if you don t like it, ignore it. What you have to understand is, because you like the game doesn t mean I and many more wont. The bottom line is the game was a big waste of time for alot of people and they re upset they wasted their time and money. The game is shallow, and boring. That is my opinion and it isn t going to change, unless something magical happens.
At least you put "in your opinion" as for sure.. Aion isn't for everyone...
but dont say its linear when there are plenty of quests - especially 1-30... from 35+ it gets pretty rough.. but that's not what we are talking about
I think the term 'linear' comes from the fact there is one and only one path to level in Aion. The quests and locations where you leveled for your 1st character will be the exact same way you level your 4th character.
Originally posted by Cammy Originally posted by mrbbman Just like in the WoW forum, all of the incessant trolling and hating indicates a decent MMO. There is no problem finding a group for me, no problem finding a fight in PvP, and no problem finding quests or something to do up until level 30 so far. I am guessing there will still be plenty to do later on as well. The training wheels come off after 25 and you can go to many places in the Abyss, enemy territory, and your own territory. I would only criticize that level 25 is too long of a wait to get into fortress battles and other objectives. Other than that I would say this is a decent game. I would hardly call this game a grinder and you can level fairly quickly. More and more people are reaching cap after just two months, however some people are skipping quests which not only makes you lose out on titles, but also other quests for valuable items. The servers in NA are strong and populated, even after free month time is up. I am not sure how it will fare against TOR or FFXIV next year however.
My feelings as well - and I agree.. they really should open up the abyss/PVP at lvl 20.. it would make so much of a difference.
The biggest boring/grinding part so far for me was lvl 20-22. Quests weren't accessable and I had to grind about half a level in order to get access to the quests I needed. Since then though - I haven't looked back and my quest log is full
I agree with everything else said tho Including the last line... time will surely tell
Interesting I hit a "level into the quest" gap at 17-18. I guess it just depends on where you quest and such.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage Follower Of Silvanus
Comments
I played Aion,there is nothing there for a PVE player to warrant jumping from any game to join AION.
No it is not utter garbage,but it is not that good either,2 races is a MAJOR cop out on completing a better game.This tells me the game is not polished,they chose in fact to just deliver what they could pan off as a playable game,sort of like selling a car without the paint job.Obviously it would be hard to polish a car with no paint job.
The two linear starts again shows the game was rushed out,the lack of water physics ,once again rushed not polished.BTW water physics is already in the game engine,the fact they chose to not put any actors into play,shows just how lazy and care free they were in "trying " to achieve polish.
As far as i am concerned omitting and not taking a game to where it SHOULD have been, is not polishing it,it is a cheap cop out,one i would not support.Even if i or anyone else were to put that lame design aside,what the game offers after that is still very average,the same thing you get from any other game.
If AION is your first MMO,then i guess it would be as good as any to join,but if you are playing another game,don't bother jumping ship for Aion,unless you get bored easily and like to game hop for no other reason.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Please come back and speak to me when you are 47, pushing to 48. Try 24 hours... nonstop play on a bot, just to get over half way.
Currently your opinion matters none in this discussion as once again, someone is speaking about something when they aren't there yet.
Wait a second! - I know people (namely two close friends) who play an average of 3-5 hours per day and have started when the game launched 6 weeks ago. They have hit level 39 and 38 as of yesterday.
I don't know about your specification of 'roughly' or 'other MMO'; but compared to western standards it takes multiple times longer while not providing nearly as many quests as necessary to not grind.
Even on EQ2, which is a little on the chewing gum side of leveling, I'd cut a damage dealer to max level in about 4, 5 weeks with an 4 hour/day average.
If I start one on LotRO (which is - granted - one of the faster ones) I'll max him in 3 weeks...
M
EDIT: Oh yea, and I KNOW it's shorter than any other asia-grinder. Which essentially does not matter, I don't do grinders and Aion proclaimed it wasn't a grinder. Don't lie to me Aion, you're a filthy little korean grinder *points finger*
Grinder is a very subjective statement and also relative. Relative to Lineage 2 then Aion is not a grinder but compared to ez-mode typical western MMORPGs it is.
Besides, I dont see the big difference between grinding 100k mobs or doing 1000 quests which each requires you to kill 50 mobs.
Sure you kill less mobs with quests but it is has other tedious stages like go from point X to point Y and kill 10 mobs and then come back to NPC and then go to another spot X and Y and collect 5 fruits or whatever.
I mean quests dont make any sense in a persistent world-sharing MMO anyway so I dont see how it adds any experience by having a ton of single player type quests that does not affect the world as whole anyway.
No no, you don't get it. I don't want to bash grinders. Grinders are fine, korean people like grinders, some western people like grinders, good for you.
I just want games to be announced right. The original discussion was: How is Aion-> a not-definable number of people are leaving -> why is that? -> maybe because they weren't honest in the first place. They should've said 'We're gonna release a grinder'. Instead they said something like 'yea you know we have Aion in Korea and we revamped it to fit western standards and now it's no grinder at all'.... .. which was a lie, and lies don't pay off.
M
You don't get it.... define "grind"? Its relative...
It isn't a grinder... a grinder is L2.... A grinder takes a YEAR to get to max level - no matter how many hours the person plays every day.
There's already 350+ people at 50 in Aion... how is that a grinder? If this was a REAL grinder these people wouldn't be past 35... seriously.... Im so tired of this argument - if you think its a grinder then DONT PLAY IT....
Can you level to 50 in a few weeks? No - it takes about 300 hours played - give or take... casuals won't hit level cap until 4-5 months of play time... that's fine. It was like that in EQ1. In FACT - it was pretty much like that in Vanilla WoW too. About a month after release, people were hitting level cap. The same in Aion....
I don't even want to touch the subject of "these 50's are all bots" because its complete rubbish. Most all the 50's right now are real players - I'm sure some are bots too... but majority are just hardcore players who burn through the game ASAP and then bitch there's nothing to do at 50.
Its impossible to please some peop
You really are missing the point arn't you? You really think the majority of us consider this a grinder due to the amount of time needed to get to cap? Which is exactly why you lost the arguement before you even started, your comphrension of the issue is nill.
It's a grinder :
1. You must do the same instances/elite area over and over for group exp. I am not even going to mention the drop rates for gear inside the instances, do about five minutes of research on the subject, 100+ times for a statistical drop IS. A. GRIND.
2. In order to increase you experience in the best possible way, you must fight solo... nonstop on the same mobs in one zone. One location is where you will/should be killing mobs for 60-80 hours ( at the least ). Sounds like a grind, looks like a grind, ITS. A. GRIND.
3. Quests dry up at 37, every level after that you recieve a handful... which only ever amount to somewhere between 5-15% of the experience required to level. You get to pick from the choices above me to finish that level.. which means, once again : ITS. A. GRIND.
Whats the diffrence between this and any other Western MMO? How well the grind is disguised... Period. A game classified as a grinder is typically one whos leveling curve is poorly developed, lacks content, or is massively repetitive in nature. You are not "hardcore" for enjoying a grinder, I am not "WoWish" for detesting it... its a diffrent mindset completely; I've allready spent 10 years in MMO's with the mindset " If I work now, I can have fun with it later", I and many others are past that.. we have "Matured". I want fun... from level 1 to level 100, if you can't provide that then I will not pay you my money.
Aion is not a "bad" game, its just not enjoyable for me... while you have just as much right to praise it, I will excerise my right to harp on its failings.
Aion is not a bad game, its just a grinder. The PvP is a joke too btw.. but thats for a diffrent thread. Guess I am just impossible to please though, right?
Actually yes, you're one of those people Im talking about. I don't think for a second grind has ANYTHING to do with skill or how long it takes to get to level cap.... What YOU don't understand is the game doesn't start at max level like it does in many other MMOs....
1) I dont need to research - I've done instances in Aion... yes - they don't always drop... Did you notice in the patch notes for 1.5.1 that they are indeed addressing this? They are increasing boss drop rates... They realize it's an issue and most westerns don't like going through the instance and not getting a drop from the boss. Personally I don't care as much as most people do but this will be a nice fix for many people.
2) Blantant bullshit - I don't even feel like commenting on this. I NEVER have to stay in one spot and grind for 80 hours. Exaggerate much? If you're going to hate the game, at least do so with REAL issues (Siege crashing, Bots, etc)
3) Agreed - they need more content/quests past 37. Completely agree.... again, if you read the patch notes, you would know that they are increasing the XP rewards from quests by a large margin. Quests that used to give a few hundred k will now give closer to a million XP...
So you see, if you spent "5 minutes of research" you would know that your primary problems are being addressed. But because the game wasn't launched with as many quests as Warcraft, then the game is nothing but a Korean grinder... Sorry - not the case no matter how bad you want it to be. Give them time and the game will flourish... even your precious WoW didn't have the content it does currently at launch...
Well maybe I've played more back in the WoW days, still I'm pretty sure about reaching the cap (60 at that time) under a month and without actually grinding on anything. There were, even at this early stage, lots of quests to do in any endgame zone (back then plaguelands, azshara, some more)...
... well, still the point is 'being honest about being a grinder' imo
LOL...this is highly laughable that you keep saying this MMO is a grinder when it's not. It may be your opinion that it is and your entitled to it, but still laughable that you find it so.
Wow had more quests than Aion - for sure...
but the /played time was still 8-10 days... Aion is closer to 12 days played...
So really.. that isn't a huge difference. So - by your logic - Vanilla WoW was a "non-Asian" grinder...
Just sayin
Wow had more quests than Aion - for sure...
but the /played time was still 8-10 days... Aion is closer to 12 days played...
So really.. that isn't a huge difference. So - by your logic - Vanilla WoW was a "non-Asian" grinder...
Just sayin
Vanilla WoW was not half the game WoW is now, and frankly pretty rubbish, so if you like Aion I'd rather avoid the comparison ;P
The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.
Wow had more quests than Aion - for sure...
but the /played time was still 8-10 days... Aion is closer to 12 days played...
So really.. that isn't a huge difference. So - by your logic - Vanilla WoW was a "non-Asian" grinder...
Just sayin
Vanilla WoW was not half the game WoW is now, and frankly pretty rubbish, so if you like Aion I'd rather avoid the comparison ;P
Im just saying that WoW has come a long ways... as Aion will also come a long ways.
WoW was far from perfect when it was first released - and Aion is far from perfect right now....
That's all Im saying - be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day... Aion has serious potential, just like WoW did back in those days...
That said - we can agree that WoW is FAR different than WoW is today (thanks for helping me with my point)
I quit a month into the game.. I tried but all I see is GRIND GRIND GRIND..... NO thanks.. NEXT
No no, you don't get it. I don't want to bash grinders. Grinders are fine, korean people like grinders, some western people like grinders, good for you.
I just want games to be announced right. The original discussion was: How is Aion-> a not-definable number of people are leaving -> why is that? -> maybe because they weren't honest in the first place. They should've said 'We're gonna release a grinder'. Instead they said something like 'yea you know we have Aion in Korea and we revamped it to fit western standards and now it's no grinder at all'.... .. which was a lie, and lies don't pay off.
M
Oh. Then I agree with you. Devs should be upfront about what they are. For example they could have said that Aion is a grinder judged by western MMOs standard but it is much less of a grinder than your typical asian MMOS such as FF XI and Lineage 2.
However the therm 'grinder' is usually a negative one. So obviously a gaming dev company will not label their own game using a negative therm. Less quest focused maybe would be a better therm
My gaming blog
You should try Champions Online. There you can hit the level cap in one week and then have nothing to do.
My gaming blog
Wow had more quests than Aion - for sure...
but the /played time was still 8-10 days... Aion is closer to 12 days played...
So really.. that isn't a huge difference. So - by your logic - Vanilla WoW was a "non-Asian" grinder...
Just sayin
Why is it that everyone continues to look at played time. It's not that Aion is 12 days played, it's that the fun goes away quickly during those 12 days. You can make the leveling experience better if it doesn't 'feel' like a grind.
WoW leveling (vanilla at least) was more enjoyable because of the way the quests were laid out and what you were doing during the quests. Go look up archived threads circa 2004-2005 and the biggest knock on WoW wasn't the leveling, it was the end game.
Wow had more quests than Aion - for sure...
but the /played time was still 8-10 days... Aion is closer to 12 days played...
So really.. that isn't a huge difference. So - by your logic - Vanilla WoW was a "non-Asian" grinder...
Just sayin
Why is it that everyone continues to look at played time. It's not that Aion is 12 days played, it's that the fun goes away quickly during those 12 days. You can make the leveling experience better if it doesn't 'feel' like a grind.
WoW leveling (vanilla at least) was more enjoyable because of the way the quests were laid out and what you were doing during the quests. Go look up archived threads circa 2004-2005 and the biggest knock on WoW wasn't the leveling, it was the end game.
I don't need to check anything - I played WoW in that time.....
I know what the problem with WoW was at that time and no - people didn't complain at leveling... because honestly it was a different type of MMO player compared to today. They were coming from EQ1 and going to WoW where they were used to leveling up and grinding... they also found it easy (like most of them find Aion easy now to be honest) and they complained because ... as you said... when they got to end game they had ONE instance... ONE..... It was "gear up for Molten Core" - that's what you did. You wasted time and money getting fire resist gear because if not - Rags would wreck your face in that instance...
Why do you think WoW changed their leveling curve? A lot of the old school vets found WoW too easy, while "others" found it too hard and too time consuming to level. So they completely mashed the XP curve so that you can level to max in a few weeks to give the casuals what they want.... now - WoW has a COMPLETELY different community. Almost everyone I know who played in Beta and during its Vanilla days have long since gone on to other things..
Its funny... the sky was falling in the WoW forums back then too - just like it is in Aion right now. lol?
If I didn t feel like I was on a one way track in Aion, I might enjoy it. If I didn t feel like I was in a box while on those tracks I might enjoy it. If I didn t feel like I was in a kiddy land while I was playing it I might enjoy it. I could go on and on, but to me Aion was one of the worst experiences I ve had in a MMO in years. I didn t even get into the Major issues of the game. If I spend $50 on a game and in a week or 2 don t want to log in, I don t really care for the loss, as it was my poor judgement and want for a new MMO experience. I will not buy another MMO till I ve tried it or know people that have and I can trust their judgement. Well until FFXIV comes out that is.
Coming from the guy who complains there's no quests but won't walk 50 steps outside a town to get more?
Exactly, these folks claiming Aion is a grind is almost laughable...go play WoW or LOTRO if you want to level quick and easy, going braindead in the process.
blah..blah..blah..dont people have better things to do then whine about a video game they don't enjoy? lol
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
Yup, you would think that these peeps play video games way too much and likely have no social life...thats just a guess though.
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
Just like in the WoW forum, all of the incessant trolling and hating indicates a decent MMO. There is no problem finding a group for me, no problem finding a fight in PvP, and no problem finding quests or something to do up until level 30 so far. I am guessing there will still be plenty to do later on as well. The training wheels come off after 25 and you can go to many places in the Abyss, enemy territory, and your own territory. I would only criticize that level 25 is too long of a wait to get into fortress battles and other objectives.
Other than that I would say this is a decent game. I would hardly call this game a grinder and you can level fairly quickly. More and more people are reaching cap after just two months, however some people are skipping quests which not only makes you lose out on titles, but also other quests for valuable items. The servers in NA are strong and populated, even after free month time is up.
I am not sure how it will fare against TOR or FFXIV next year however.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage
Follower Of Silvanus
Kings of Chaos! Free to play! Great PvP!
My feelings as well - and I agree.. they really should open up the abyss/PVP at lvl 20.. it would make so much of a difference.
The biggest boring/grinding part so far for me was lvl 20-22. Quests weren't accessable and I had to grind about half a level in order to get access to the quests I needed. Since then though - I haven't looked back and my quest log is full
I agree with everything else said tho
Including the last line... time will surely tell
Coming from the guy who complains there's no quests but won't walk 50 steps outside a town to get more?
There is a lack of quests yes. I could walk 50 steps outside a town to get more, yes, but the game didn t do it for me so why should I continue to play it. What I said is how I feel, if you don t like it, ignore it. What you have to understand is, because you like the game doesn t mean I and many more wont. The bottom line is the game was a big waste of time for alot of people and they re upset they wasted their time and money. The game is shallow, and boring. That is my opinion and it isn t going to change, unless something magical happens.
Aion is more hardcore than some people are used to, but it isn't a grinder.
Almost all of the content past 35 is group content. People who pretend group content doesn't exist will have to grind. People who find groups and play together will end up like me, level 47 (two bars to 48) without ever 'grinding' a single damn mob.
Servers are full at peak times, game is full and alive, and most of my complaints about the game are incredibly minor (and even then many are being addressed already). CS is being improved, bots are getting banned (I wish they would get banned faster, but it's incredibly satisfying seeing them disappear all the same), solo quests past 35 are getting an experience boost to make them line up more with the increased experience demand (you'll still have to group some to level -- deal with it -- if you don't like that Aion isn't for you), gold spam is nearly nonexistant (now they just set up shops in major hubs advertising their websites, which I can happily note get banned daily) and the client crash is being addressed.
In short, I'm sick of seeing the horseshit constantly posted on these forums about this game by people who haven't got a clue.
Aion keeps succeeding.
You mad?
-
Coming from the guy who complains there's no quests but won't walk 50 steps outside a town to get more?
There is a lack of quests yes. I could walk 50 steps outside a town to get more, yes, but the game didn t do it for me so why should I continue to play it. What I said is how I feel, if you don t like it, ignore it. What you have to understand is, because you like the game doesn t mean I and many more wont. The bottom line is the game was a big waste of time for alot of people and they re upset they wasted their time and money. The game is shallow, and boring. That is my opinion and it isn t going to change, unless something magical happens.
At least you put "in your opinion" as for sure.. Aion isn't for everyone...
but dont say its linear when there are plenty of quests - especially 1-30... from 35+ it gets pretty rough.. but that's not what we are talking about
Tykero - I
you. Haven't seen you post before but a very welcomed post indeed
Just beware... many will flame you for this - and ask for your Char link to "prove" you are the level you say (when sadly most of them haven't even level'ed past 15)... just giving fair warning - the MMORPG community is not very happy when things don't go their way and the game isn't 100% the way THEY expected it to be.
Coming from the guy who complains there's no quests but won't walk 50 steps outside a town to get more?
There is a lack of quests yes. I could walk 50 steps outside a town to get more, yes, but the game didn t do it for me so why should I continue to play it. What I said is how I feel, if you don t like it, ignore it. What you have to understand is, because you like the game doesn t mean I and many more wont. The bottom line is the game was a big waste of time for alot of people and they re upset they wasted their time and money. The game is shallow, and boring. That is my opinion and it isn t going to change, unless something magical happens.
At least you put "in your opinion" as for sure.. Aion isn't for everyone...
but dont say its linear when there are plenty of quests - especially 1-30... from 35+ it gets pretty rough.. but that's not what we are talking about
I think the term 'linear' comes from the fact there is one and only one path to level in Aion. The quests and locations where you leveled for your 1st character will be the exact same way you level your 4th character.
My feelings as well - and I agree.. they really should open up the abyss/PVP at lvl 20.. it would make so much of a difference.
The biggest boring/grinding part so far for me was lvl 20-22. Quests weren't accessable and I had to grind about half a level in order to get access to the quests I needed. Since then though - I haven't looked back and my quest log is full
I agree with everything else said tho
Interesting I hit a "level into the quest" gap at 17-18. I guess it just depends on where you quest and such.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage
Follower Of Silvanus
Kings of Chaos! Free to play! Great PvP!